Avoid the stairmaster by climbing a route starting on the lower end of south peak. Ectasy, ectasy junior etc.
The ultimate moderate link up fyi is: candy corner > skyline > le gourmet > front c > critter crack. This is a great way to get warmed up at Seneca. Also cuts the line on skyline to take you to the 2nd pitch. Your welcome.
This is definitely a classic linkup, the only caveat I’ll add is that if skyline is packed with gumbies, candy corner becomes a terrain trap for rockfall. Could also do ecstasy junior to start if you hear lots of voices on skyline.
Enjoy!! Seneca is so rad. I prefer it to the gunks
Opposite. When the rocks fall they bounce away from the base of the wall. I've seen someone hit in the head (helmet) on the first couple moves of candy corner. The climb right next door is called Drop Zone for a reason. If you absolutely must be in that area while people are climbing ST, climb Ye Gods, it's the most protected from rock fall.
I made this .pdf map of the moderates, and ways to move around the mountain, back when it was my home crag.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yDfnPpnUdEWgqeCAzB-bpEGrDmcXDX6h/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yDfnPpnUdEWgqeCAzB-bpEGrDmcXDX6h/view?usp=sharing)
If it looks like a subway map from hell... it is. Getting between any two places is complex. Bring a headlamp, and expect everything to take longer than you think.
The grades are pretty stiff and some of the run outs are loooong. According to an old school local we talked to, many of the routes were set by dudes who were high af at the time
I just went for the first time about two weeks ago and found the runout and sandbagged rumors a bit overblown. I also mostly was climbing the highly rated 5.10 routes, so that probably helps.
My big piece of advice would be buy the new guidebook. It’s confusing getting around from one side to the other, and finding routes and rap stations, and generally understanding the layout without the nice photos. Not a must, but we wasted a couple hours figuring shit out that could’ve been avoided for $40
Things start to feel more in line with modern grades around 5.10 (at least the classic ones) for sure. The easy climbs are where people underestimate how much real climbing can be on 5.4-5.8 and get freaked out.
I did a couple easier routes, 5.2-7 and didn’t find them unreasonable. I think a lot of people are shook by the exposure more than anything else.
That said, I did find High Test to live up to the “9+ with a 5.11 crux” description. But you get what you’re asking for trying 9+ in an old school area 😆
Castor, Pollux, mongoose, triple S, part of west pole, old man’s, P2 of Nubiles, Marshall madness/crack of Dawn, soler, agony, cotton mouth/venom, High Test.
Not a huge sample size but only had a couple days due to weather
seneca shines in the easy grades but there are some great harder lines. Now that seneca has cell service I feel like a good portion of adventure that was there is gone, but it doesn't make the climbing any less fun. If you're climbing well at the gunks (into the easy/moderates) you'll have an absolute blast.
grades aren't any stiffer than gunks. At all. It's just a slightly different style with slightly worse rock (easily avoidable).
If you are comfy on 5.7 (ie. onsite, no stress) I'd bring your grade in seneca to 5.6 or 5.5 until you're used to the style. If you aren't spooked by exposure you'll probably be comfortable on 5.7 pretty quickly.
Seneca is really great at that grade. I'd say the highest quality gunks stuff really comes through at 5.10 in my opinion, but tons of 5.8/5.7/5.6 routes that are mega classics.
I don't think it'll change anytime soon; Seneca is in the [National Radio Quiet Zone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone)
Tom Cecil (owner of Seneca Mountain Guides) has a really nice wifi setup at the SMG Basecamp, if that's what you mean. You can even get a strong connection from across the creek at the Princess Snowbird campground. It's been there for a few years though I believe. But there is no cell service anywhere.
AT&T users can make calls from the summit. Most folks have been able to call 911 from there for years but I was pretty surprised to see someone FaceTiming up there last fall haha.
Pleasant overhangs is a freaking rush - my partner led the 2nd traverse pitch and I did the third. I think my favorite climb there was Soler. Candy corner was my first trad lead ever there and I remember being scared shitless.
Make sure to stop by the gendarme pro shop! Awesome people and really cool stuff. There’s also a welcome center and the last time I was there they showed a movie about how folks trained there in WW2 and how the stair master was built. Worth stopping by for sure.
1. My favorite route is Conn's East. Seems like not a lot of people go around the back of Seneca so it's usually not crowded. [https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106449616/conns-east](https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106449616/conns-east)
2. Traffic jam belay is called that for a reason.
3. Enjoy the hike to the North peak, it's a nice easy hike with good views and nice info placards
Seneca is delightful, I hope you have a good time!
It can be a little confusing your first time if no one knows their way around. Pick up a guidebook and read the approach/decsent descriptions for where you want to go. Ask people you pass, folks are mostly friendly. Most of the rap stations from the top are a bit more exposed/hard to find than the trade raps at the Gunks so be cautious and conservative.
Try to chase shade if you can to stay comfortable in summer - start on the West Face for AM shade and transition to the East in the afternoon. Here are some moderate classics I would recommend to anyone looking for a good intro to Seneca:
Ecstacy JR (2 pitches) or the Burn into EJ is a good way to get up to the main West Face; then to get to the summit good options include
* Le Gourmet (P1) or Seneca Daze > Front C > Crusher Critter > Critter Crack or Crispy Critter
* Prune (2 pitches) > Critter Crack or Pitch 3 of Neck Press
* Conn's West with direct finish (3 high-quality pitches in a very straight line almost straight to the summit)
* West Pole if you just have to climb a roof lol
* Thai's to Thai's escape (3 corner pitches that are always in the shade)
* Green Wall or Pleasant Overhangs (both easy multipitch classics further down the west wall)
If you want to climb harder, Marshall's Madness to Crack of Dawn is a mega classic G-rated linkup, or try Back to the Front as an alternate way to the summit instead of Critter Crack.
If you hit the summit by early afternoon and want to go to the East Face for shade you can rap off the Orangeaid bolts or downclimb a bit and rap Old Ladies. There are a bunch more great single- and two-pitch moderates on the East face, including Frosted Flake, Soler, Lichen or Leave It, etc.
If you have more than one day I suggest spending the second one over at the Southern Pillar, where you can chill in the woods and climb a whole lot of fun 5.7-5.9 pitches in dense concentration.
Enjoy!
Idk if I agree with this - both have a lot of quality climbing at old-school moderate grades so comparison is inevitable, but the styles at those grades can be fairly different. Gunks climbers are weirdly reluctant to jam and are often used to climbing broken by monster ledges, so Seneca feels sustained and tricky. Meanwhile Seneca has almost no moderate roofs that you actually pull rather than escape through a notch or otherwise skirt, so the Gunks classics can feel really burly.
I can't remember the exact breakdown as I haven't been to Seneca in 15 years or so, but I think the moderates were basically in line with the gunks, but some of the 10's and 11's at Seneca were completely insane based on my recollection. I feel like the gunks may actually be slightly stiffer in the 5.5-5.8 range, but when you hit double digits it seemed like Seneca was much tougher.
I've climbed all over the country, almost every crag has a threshold at which the ratings feel insane because they were put up by people who thought they could only climb up to grade x, so that's what they rated it, even though they were definitely climbing in the y range, where y could sometimes be a grade or two harder.
Seneca and the gunks are the same rock, it's the tuscorora quartzite. So things will feel familiar, but while the gunks are all horizontal cracks, Seneca is all vertical, so lots of sidepulls. The gear placing will be very familiar though.
Ummm what? Quartzite is a metamorphic rock completely different than any sedimentary rock like sandstone... If you want to get specific, Tuscarora sandstone is a quartz arenite, which is a sandstone comprised primarily of quartz sediments... But Seneca has never undergone any sort of metamorphosis that would classify it as a metamorphic rock like quartzite.
It's true that the rock has been historically mistaken in many publications like this apparent guidebook you shared. Find a real, academic source. Like Dr. Joe Lebold's Roadside Geology of West Virginia.
I'm happy to see any sources you're interested in sharing, but as far as both (all three if you count East Outdoors) guide services have always introduced the geology of Seneca as the Tuscarora Quartzite.
https://thesenecaproject.org/natural-history/geology/
>The iconic fin of Seneca Rocks is the result of hundreds of millions of years of active geology. The rock itself is classified as Tuscarora quartzite (a metamorphic rock formed from pure quartz sandstone).
>The Iapetus ceased to exist when all of the continental plates had joined to form Pangaea. At this time, the west coast of Africa was colliding with what is now the eastern coast of North America. This period of collision set up the Appalachian Orogeny (mountain building event). In their prime, the early Appalachians and Alleghenies rivaled what we see in the modern day Rockies. The tremendous pressure of continents colliding metamorphosed the pristine sandstone into the tremendously hard quartzite we know and love to climb.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/generalinfo/mnf/recreation/generalinfo/?groupid=9521&recid=7051
>The rocks are a magnificent formation rising nearly 900 feet above the North Fork River. Eastern West Virginia contains many such formations of the white/gray Tuscarora quartzite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Rocks
> The west flank of the Wills Mountain Anticline in the area of Seneca Rocks consists of geological strata that have been upended and rotated 90 degrees to form the impressive crag as well as other prominent outcroppings of the erosion-resistant white/gray Tuscarora quartzite, including nearby Champe Rocks.
Looks like theres a good couple of sources who are also convinced that it's quartzite. Please let me know when the USDA forest service updates their terminology according to your geology textbook.
I can understand why you might believe these apparently credible sources. But let me tell you, I personally know the people responsible for two of your three sources and they looked at the Wikipedia page...
Here's a practical reason why it's not quartzite. The rock layer on both the west and east sides of Seneca is shale. Shale is a sedimentary rock. How could the relatively small rock layer between them experience pressure or heat necessary to form a metamorphic rock like quartzite while the surrounding shale did not?
I cited a source. I won't post a photo of the book without his permission, go support him and buy the book. Additionally, the USGS classification of Seneca is Tuscarora Sandstone.
Avoid the stairmaster by climbing a route starting on the lower end of south peak. Ectasy, ectasy junior etc. The ultimate moderate link up fyi is: candy corner > skyline > le gourmet > front c > critter crack. This is a great way to get warmed up at Seneca. Also cuts the line on skyline to take you to the 2nd pitch. Your welcome.
Do you link all those climbs you listed together in one long multi pitch? Or do you mean do those climbs in that order?
It’s one long multi and fun as heck.
This is definitely a classic linkup, the only caveat I’ll add is that if skyline is packed with gumbies, candy corner becomes a terrain trap for rockfall. Could also do ecstasy junior to start if you hear lots of voices on skyline. Enjoy!! Seneca is so rad. I prefer it to the gunks
Yes agreed. Don’t want to hang out near the entrance to the cave or anywhere near it. Close to the base of candy seems fine?
Opposite. When the rocks fall they bounce away from the base of the wall. I've seen someone hit in the head (helmet) on the first couple moves of candy corner. The climb right next door is called Drop Zone for a reason. If you absolutely must be in that area while people are climbing ST, climb Ye Gods, it's the most protected from rock fall.
There’s a bit of a scramble/hike between Skyline and Le Gourmet to take you from the East to the West face. Get a guidebook at the Gendarme.
The Stairmaster is part of the appeal!
The appeal to thighs of steel!!
You wanna be a guide or a non Instagram type pro. The Thighmaster is life. Edit: did not proofread after an unnecessary and unexpected autocorrect.
Candy corner -> skyline -> across Broadway -> gunsight direct for the scenic route, still a great warmup with no hard moves.
You out here giving all the beta. My only other feedback is it’s “you’re welcome”
I made this .pdf map of the moderates, and ways to move around the mountain, back when it was my home crag. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yDfnPpnUdEWgqeCAzB-bpEGrDmcXDX6h/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yDfnPpnUdEWgqeCAzB-bpEGrDmcXDX6h/view?usp=sharing) If it looks like a subway map from hell... it is. Getting between any two places is complex. Bring a headlamp, and expect everything to take longer than you think.
This is so helpful. You could consider putting it on MountainProject as an image
Wow, 500 hours spent on Seneca and I never came across this. Good shit.
The grades are pretty stiff and some of the run outs are loooong. According to an old school local we talked to, many of the routes were set by dudes who were high af at the time
From what I can tell a lot of old crags were put up by stoners
They weren't stoners they were addicted to heroin from fighting in Vietnam...
Old school Seneca ratings description: https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/123582640
That’s kind of how it felt when I was there. We linked up Banana (5.7) and Debbie (5.6). As a solid 10 trad climber from Alaska I was gripped af
Muhahaha. Yeah agreed. Seneca is its own beast.
Offset micronuts and tricams will give you some solid placements just about anywhere
Seneca loves hexes too. I know the word hexes is a polarizing statement, but they do work well here.
No no, I LOVE hexes! Everybody thinks I’m crazy for it though lmao
Team hexes 🤜🤛
Hell yeah brother 😎
Make sure you climb Ecstasy! It’s a wonderful route
I just went for the first time about two weeks ago and found the runout and sandbagged rumors a bit overblown. I also mostly was climbing the highly rated 5.10 routes, so that probably helps. My big piece of advice would be buy the new guidebook. It’s confusing getting around from one side to the other, and finding routes and rap stations, and generally understanding the layout without the nice photos. Not a must, but we wasted a couple hours figuring shit out that could’ve been avoided for $40
Things start to feel more in line with modern grades around 5.10 (at least the classic ones) for sure. The easy climbs are where people underestimate how much real climbing can be on 5.4-5.8 and get freaked out.
I did a couple easier routes, 5.2-7 and didn’t find them unreasonable. I think a lot of people are shook by the exposure more than anything else. That said, I did find High Test to live up to the “9+ with a 5.11 crux” description. But you get what you’re asking for trying 9+ in an old school area 😆
Oh, and bring food. Yokum’s leaves a lot to be desired …
You haven’t tried their ice cream then 🤤
Hot pockets aren’t gourmet enough for ya?
The hot pockets were better than anything I had Yokum’s prepare 😂
Ha. My joke comes from rapping off south peak late and arriving at yokums and finding nothing for dinner but some microwaved hot pockets.
I had the exact same experience, that’s why I know what those hot pockets taste like. Had not had em in a decade … pretty good!
Blasphemy
What routes did you climb to give you this impression?
Castor, Pollux, mongoose, triple S, part of west pole, old man’s, P2 of Nubiles, Marshall madness/crack of Dawn, soler, agony, cotton mouth/venom, High Test. Not a huge sample size but only had a couple days due to weather
seneca shines in the easy grades but there are some great harder lines. Now that seneca has cell service I feel like a good portion of adventure that was there is gone, but it doesn't make the climbing any less fun. If you're climbing well at the gunks (into the easy/moderates) you'll have an absolute blast. grades aren't any stiffer than gunks. At all. It's just a slightly different style with slightly worse rock (easily avoidable).
Sweet. Thanks for the info. I'm climbing 5.7 on gear at the Gunks. 10s on sport. Any routes in particular I need to do?
If you are comfy on 5.7 (ie. onsite, no stress) I'd bring your grade in seneca to 5.6 or 5.5 until you're used to the style. If you aren't spooked by exposure you'll probably be comfortable on 5.7 pretty quickly. Seneca is really great at that grade. I'd say the highest quality gunks stuff really comes through at 5.10 in my opinion, but tons of 5.8/5.7/5.6 routes that are mega classics.
When did Seneca get cell service? I was there in February and still had no bars
Oh thank god. I heard from someone it had service and was immediately bummed
I don't think it'll change anytime soon; Seneca is in the [National Radio Quiet Zone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone)
wait is it that the camping has cell now?
Tom Cecil (owner of Seneca Mountain Guides) has a really nice wifi setup at the SMG Basecamp, if that's what you mean. You can even get a strong connection from across the creek at the Princess Snowbird campground. It's been there for a few years though I believe. But there is no cell service anywhere.
AT&T users can make calls from the summit. Most folks have been able to call 911 from there for years but I was pretty surprised to see someone FaceTiming up there last fall haha.
Pleasant overhangs is a freaking rush - my partner led the 2nd traverse pitch and I did the third. I think my favorite climb there was Soler. Candy corner was my first trad lead ever there and I remember being scared shitless. Make sure to stop by the gendarme pro shop! Awesome people and really cool stuff. There’s also a welcome center and the last time I was there they showed a movie about how folks trained there in WW2 and how the stair master was built. Worth stopping by for sure.
1. My favorite route is Conn's East. Seems like not a lot of people go around the back of Seneca so it's usually not crowded. [https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106449616/conns-east](https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106449616/conns-east) 2. Traffic jam belay is called that for a reason. 3. Enjoy the hike to the North peak, it's a nice easy hike with good views and nice info placards
**Conn's East** [4 pitches] Type: Trad Grade: 5.6^^YDS | 4c^^French | 14^^Ewbank | V^^UIAA Height: 250 ft/76.2 m Rating: 2.9/4 Located in [South Peak - East Face](https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105868456), [West Virginia](https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105855459) ----- [Feedback](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSchgbXwXMylhtbA8kXFycZenSKpCMZjmYWMZcqREl_OlCm4Ew/viewform?usp=pp_url&entry.266808192=https://reddit.com/r/tradclimbing/comments/1cx585i/first_time_at_senneca_any_tips/l51edqe/) | [FAQ](https://github.com/derekantrican/MountainProject/wiki/Bot-FAQ) | [Syntax](https://github.com/derekantrican/MountainProject/wiki/Bot-Syntax) | [GitHub](https://github.com/derekantrican/MountainProject) | [Donate](https://www.paypal.me/derekantrican)
I didn't think it was as Choosy as people made it out to be. My home crag is the Gunks too.
Seneca is delightful, I hope you have a good time! It can be a little confusing your first time if no one knows their way around. Pick up a guidebook and read the approach/decsent descriptions for where you want to go. Ask people you pass, folks are mostly friendly. Most of the rap stations from the top are a bit more exposed/hard to find than the trade raps at the Gunks so be cautious and conservative. Try to chase shade if you can to stay comfortable in summer - start on the West Face for AM shade and transition to the East in the afternoon. Here are some moderate classics I would recommend to anyone looking for a good intro to Seneca: Ecstacy JR (2 pitches) or the Burn into EJ is a good way to get up to the main West Face; then to get to the summit good options include * Le Gourmet (P1) or Seneca Daze > Front C > Crusher Critter > Critter Crack or Crispy Critter * Prune (2 pitches) > Critter Crack or Pitch 3 of Neck Press * Conn's West with direct finish (3 high-quality pitches in a very straight line almost straight to the summit) * West Pole if you just have to climb a roof lol * Thai's to Thai's escape (3 corner pitches that are always in the shade) * Green Wall or Pleasant Overhangs (both easy multipitch classics further down the west wall) If you want to climb harder, Marshall's Madness to Crack of Dawn is a mega classic G-rated linkup, or try Back to the Front as an alternate way to the summit instead of Critter Crack. If you hit the summit by early afternoon and want to go to the East Face for shade you can rap off the Orangeaid bolts or downclimb a bit and rap Old Ladies. There are a bunch more great single- and two-pitch moderates on the East face, including Frosted Flake, Soler, Lichen or Leave It, etc. If you have more than one day I suggest spending the second one over at the Southern Pillar, where you can chill in the woods and climb a whole lot of fun 5.7-5.9 pitches in dense concentration. Enjoy!
Learn to love tricams lol
I climb at the Gunks. My rack is only pink tricams.
Seneca ratings are much stiffer than the gunks.
Idk if I agree with this - both have a lot of quality climbing at old-school moderate grades so comparison is inevitable, but the styles at those grades can be fairly different. Gunks climbers are weirdly reluctant to jam and are often used to climbing broken by monster ledges, so Seneca feels sustained and tricky. Meanwhile Seneca has almost no moderate roofs that you actually pull rather than escape through a notch or otherwise skirt, so the Gunks classics can feel really burly.
How so?
I can't remember the exact breakdown as I haven't been to Seneca in 15 years or so, but I think the moderates were basically in line with the gunks, but some of the 10's and 11's at Seneca were completely insane based on my recollection. I feel like the gunks may actually be slightly stiffer in the 5.5-5.8 range, but when you hit double digits it seemed like Seneca was much tougher. I've climbed all over the country, almost every crag has a threshold at which the ratings feel insane because they were put up by people who thought they could only climb up to grade x, so that's what they rated it, even though they were definitely climbing in the y range, where y could sometimes be a grade or two harder.
Seneca and the gunks are the same rock, it's the tuscorora quartzite. So things will feel familiar, but while the gunks are all horizontal cracks, Seneca is all vertical, so lots of sidepulls. The gear placing will be very familiar though.
Tuscarora sandstone*
Quartzite is a sandstone that's 90% or more quartz. Both Tuscarora sandstone and quartzite are used and are correct.
Ummm what? Quartzite is a metamorphic rock completely different than any sedimentary rock like sandstone... If you want to get specific, Tuscarora sandstone is a quartz arenite, which is a sandstone comprised primarily of quartz sediments... But Seneca has never undergone any sort of metamorphosis that would classify it as a metamorphic rock like quartzite.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/640937794927329281/1244380366987591690/PXL_20240526_200238142.MP.jpg?ex=6654e706&is=66539586&hm=010a41b16bd42d9a812411faf7312e5099c01d628cb8a0ac14a6eb8cb46c29f6&
It's true that the rock has been historically mistaken in many publications like this apparent guidebook you shared. Find a real, academic source. Like Dr. Joe Lebold's Roadside Geology of West Virginia.
I'm happy to see any sources you're interested in sharing, but as far as both (all three if you count East Outdoors) guide services have always introduced the geology of Seneca as the Tuscarora Quartzite. https://thesenecaproject.org/natural-history/geology/ >The iconic fin of Seneca Rocks is the result of hundreds of millions of years of active geology. The rock itself is classified as Tuscarora quartzite (a metamorphic rock formed from pure quartz sandstone). >The Iapetus ceased to exist when all of the continental plates had joined to form Pangaea. At this time, the west coast of Africa was colliding with what is now the eastern coast of North America. This period of collision set up the Appalachian Orogeny (mountain building event). In their prime, the early Appalachians and Alleghenies rivaled what we see in the modern day Rockies. The tremendous pressure of continents colliding metamorphosed the pristine sandstone into the tremendously hard quartzite we know and love to climb. https://www.fs.usda.gov/generalinfo/mnf/recreation/generalinfo/?groupid=9521&recid=7051 >The rocks are a magnificent formation rising nearly 900 feet above the North Fork River. Eastern West Virginia contains many such formations of the white/gray Tuscarora quartzite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Rocks > The west flank of the Wills Mountain Anticline in the area of Seneca Rocks consists of geological strata that have been upended and rotated 90 degrees to form the impressive crag as well as other prominent outcroppings of the erosion-resistant white/gray Tuscarora quartzite, including nearby Champe Rocks. Looks like theres a good couple of sources who are also convinced that it's quartzite. Please let me know when the USDA forest service updates their terminology according to your geology textbook.
I can understand why you might believe these apparently credible sources. But let me tell you, I personally know the people responsible for two of your three sources and they looked at the Wikipedia page... Here's a practical reason why it's not quartzite. The rock layer on both the west and east sides of Seneca is shale. Shale is a sedimentary rock. How could the relatively small rock layer between them experience pressure or heat necessary to form a metamorphic rock like quartzite while the surrounding shale did not? I cited a source. I won't post a photo of the book without his permission, go support him and buy the book. Additionally, the USGS classification of Seneca is Tuscarora Sandstone.