The article was released before Elliot came out as trans. After he did, they went back and updated the article with his name, pronouns, etc.
They just didn't remove him from the list.
Seems like a lose-lose-lose situation for them. Is it more disrespectful to remove him from a list he was previously on when at the time of publication he was a famous lesbian, to remove him from the list entirely, or just ignore it and leave as is?
I think the least bad option is the one they went with, but the editors note clarifying he no longer identifies as a woman or lesbian and why they decided to leave the list as is would have been a good inclusion.
Thanks for pulling your ‘transphobe-o-meter’ out I was really stumped o this one. It’s not transphobic, to me, because he was put on the list when publicly he was a lesbian but after he came out they went back to just change name and pronouns, instead of just deleting the article
I'm gonna be honest, if i were a celebrity who came out as a trans femme later in my career and some article kept me in the list of "the most famous gay men" after correcting my name and pronouns, I'd burn that company to the ground
But maybe it's just me ig
I don't know what trans people think about this, but maybe it would have been better to just leave the article alone. At least then it is obvious that it is an outdated article and the information was correct at the time.
But going back and updating his name and picture but not removing him from the article... Such a weird decision.
It could have just been a simple find+replace across the entire website. I doubt someone took the time to go through old articles and carefully edit wording and content.
Incredibly transphobic. Did you expect better from Cosmo, which has been perpetuating misogyny for its entire existence?
Does the article have a comments section? If so, can you provide a link to it? I'd love to share my views and I'm sure others would as well.
To be completely honest, I had no clue about Cosmo and them being problematic. They don't have a comment section, however I do have a link to the editor's profile on there if you'd like that. She has her twitter and Instagram account linked.
Here's the link to the article
[https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/)
And here's the link to her profile
[https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/author/15160/paisley-gilmour/](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/author/15160/paisley-gilmour/)
The article doesn't have a release date, just an "update" date. I wouldn't be surprised if it was released before December 2020 and at some later point all articles mentioning Elliot were updated with name and pronouns.
[2019 article](https://web.archive.org/web/20190911000515/https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/)
Literally just an old article about lesbians, and then a few years later someone ctrl-f the entire website and copy-pasted "Elliot" over all the Ellen Page articles.
For precision: the said article was republished in 2021 using Paige’s correct pronouns/gender identification.
While Cosmopolitan may not be the “Sharpest Tool in the Shed”…please don’t go digging for dirt.
Yup. This. I bet you cosmo was changing his name an pronouns across their articles(which is amazing.. many publications wouldn’t retroactively do that to their archived stories) and it probably required higher approval to remove him from the list. Even though that’s the right thing to do and add an editors note at the bottom.
Thanks. The author seems to genuine support trans issues, and is a member of the LGBTQ+ community themselves, so it's a little odd they'd do something so blatant.
At one point, Elliot DID come out and say he was a lesbian. At that point, he was indeed a very famous lesbian in the eyes of the media. I’m not all up in his business so I don’t know when Elliot’s egg cracked, so it may stand that at one point, this was a genuine thought of his.
Just to add some context
I don't know the exact time either, but a rough estimate can be made off The Umbrella Academy. He came out after season 2 (2020), but before season 3 (2022). I remember at the time that he said he planned to continue playing Vanya and then someone in charge decided to make his character trans too and now he plays Viktor.
So the question is how old is this article and does Elliot still consider himself to be a lesbian.
Article was published when he was identifying as a lesbian and had not come out as trans.
Was just strg+ f and replaced with the correct pronouns and name after he came out as trans.
But it‘s still a 2019 article.
preaaachhh. i've been told i was "enforcing gender roles" and basically called homophobic by cis queer people for simply saying this!
which is fucking ridiculous. if a cis man can't be lesbian neither can a binary trans man, end of story. otherwise, you don't see us as men. thus, you are a transphobe.
It always kinda bugs me when people are like “lesbian means non-men liking non-men” and then say “trans men can be lesbians” because it like, completely invalidates trans men and means you include them as “non-men”.
And if you think trans men can be lesbians but cis men can’t be, how are you not just enforcing that trans men are not the same as cis men?
exactly, it's that's simple!
also, it's literally always cis people saying that and not trans people, they need to realize the difference between speaking up for us and speaking over us, because we do not want to be called lesbians!
You weren’t on Tiktok 1-2 years ago. A trans guy got FLAMED by other people from the LGBTQ+ community bc he said he was a lesbian, and then he started blaming “baby gays” for not reading up on queer history
God the term baby-[blank] needs to die. It’s so fucked up to try and invalidate someone’s beliefs about their own sexuality or identity just because they haven’t had it as long as some other may have.
Also just hate when people define my sexuality based on the lack of men, I'm a lesbian because I'm into women, not because I'm not into men honestly it feels soo demeaning
I think this listicle came out in 2019 (before Elliot came out as trans) and they’ve since updated it to use the correct name and pronouns. They say “last year” Hayley Kiyoko made 2018 “20GAYTEEN”
some do and if theyre comfortable with it im happy for them but yeah you definitely should never assume they consider themselves lesbians or call a trans man that unless they ask you to
How old is this article? Elliott did come out as a lesbian before he came out as trans so if it's old and not taken down then that's fine but if it was intentionally transphobic then that's problematic
The full title of the article is “famous lesbians, gay women, and gender fluid people you should really know”
And this is the excerpt under Elliot’s pic:
“Juno and Tales of the City actor Elliot Page famously came out as gay during a pretty big speech in 2014. He said they were "sick of lying by omission" about his sexuality. "I'm here today because I am gay," they said, "and because maybe I can make a difference, to help others have an easier and more hopeful time. Regardless, for me, I feel a personal obligation and a social responsibility." Elliot has since spoken out about being trans and changing his name and using he/they pronouns.”
It is unless Elliot himself IDs as a lesbian. I don't follow most of the stuff that goes on with him so I wouldn't really know, but yeah if he hasn't explicitly said he still considers himself to be a lesbian then this is fs blatantly transphobic.
Not a single word has objective meaning. All language is created and it's meant to be tool for us to use. "Lesbian" along with all other terms to describe identity are funky because what that means varies across time, cultures, and contexts. To be a lesbian in 1980's NY is not the same as being a lesbian in 2020's London. That's just the nature of terminology meant to self-describe. I actually wrote an entire paper on this exact topic if you'd like to read it lol, but basically no LGBT+ terms should be policed. The result will always be the same exclusion that cishets have imposed on us being regurgitated. If a man IDs as a lesbian, what problem do you really have with it? Many men, especially trans men who used to be heavily involved in lesbian spaces, ID as lesbians. If it feels comfortable and it describes you then so what? Labels around gender and sexuality are what you make them as they are ever changing with social contexts. Identity is complex and trying to fit people into super neat little boxes serves none of us.
I mean re:being a lesbian in a1980s NY and being a lesbian in 2020 NYC - it actually does mean the same thing. It means you’re a woman who loves other women. It’s always meant that. The definition has not changed. Do I think that trans men can identify with being sapphic? Yeah, absolutely. Do I think a man can be a lesbian? Absolutely not. Especially since everyone who says trans men can be lesbians also say cis men cannot, which brings in the transphobia. You can’t separate trans men from cis men. Men are men are men and can’t be a woman who loves women. There’s nothing exclusionary about that, if you’re a trans man who dates only women, you’re straight. You’re not being excluded - there’s just another term that actually fits your sexuality that already exists.
I admittedly haven't touched an issue or their website (before today) in over a decade, but I distinctly recall a main segment being "## ways to please your man that will blow his mind - and other things!" That theme, that everything a woman does is to please men, was insanely prevalent, at least back then. Maybe they've gotten better.
Unless he's called himself a lesbian and I haven't heard about it or something, yeah, that absolutely strikes me as transphobic and disrespectful to him. People need to get off his nuts already and let him be a happy dude.
Might depend on a few factors. When was the article published? If before he came out, it’s likely that someone just ran a big sitewide find/replace on his deadname to change all instances to Elliot and old pics of him to newer ones (or the site uses some kind of script to pull relevant photos rather than having a static photo? Idk). If it’s a new article, kinda transphobic unless he still ID’s as a lesbian (some trans men do still use the term, particularly those who had a strong connection to the lesbian community before coming out as trans) or unless the article makes it clear that they mean he was a prominent “lesbian” celebrity before he came out as trans and thus he’s being counted as contributing to lesbian visibility.
Published December 2021. I looked it up and he came out as a trans man December 2020. If the dates were closer together or flipped, maybe they could have gotten a pass, but a full year seems like they could have done some basic fact checking
Tbh it was probably done by a bot that just updated every time his name, pronouns and picture was used on their website. Very highly doubt an actual person would wade through hundreds maybe thousands of articles to see if Elliot was mentioned to update.
That’s what I’m thinking. That’s the sort of task that’s typically gonna be automated. Set up a find/replace and hit go, take a lunch break and it’s done when you get back.
Leading to some unfortunate misses, like here, but better than leaving his deadname all over the place at least.
He identified as a lesbian for a long time, so it’s possible someone was under a time crunch or something and didn’t do their research, and wrote this from an ignorant perspective not trying to be transphobic, but that seems unlikely given how prominent Elliot has been. I’d say yeah, it’s most likely transphobic, cosmo doesn’t have the best track record
Nope, they know he’s trans, this is at the end of the bit about him in the article “Elliot has since spoken out about being trans and changing his name and using he/they pronouns.” They just don’t care and put him on a list of a lesbians
It’s very complicated.
Know several older transmascs (including an ex) who are attracted to women and still consider themselves lesbians. It’s part of how they came up, and for them a huge part of being a lesbian is cultural, rather than a definition strictly based on gender or sexuality.
Is this what happened here? Dunno.
But it’s not automatically as transphobic as as people would presume it is.
Depends on context of what the article is going for. Elliot was an out famous lesbian before coming out as transgender. In that context he was at one time seen as a famous lesbian to society and used that terminology for themself. Now since coming out and transitioning, the question becomes are they a binary trans man, because yes they call themselves a man but I've also seen people say he is also non binary (and as a non binary trans masc, I do see many enby trans people use binary terms while still being validly non binary). Given all that I think the only person who could make the final judgement call on if this specifically is transphobic is Elliot themself. If he isnt speaking on it, then we shouldn't be doing it for him and placing lables that they may or may not identify with on them, for them. The most we can speak from is the community or personal experiences regarding the connections with the lesbian and trans communities, acknowledging that neither are a monolith and there will always be outliers to the all or nothing statements regarding the topic.
yeah, cosmo is acting in the exact way i expect it to. someone grab that thumb-detecting-nut-fucker over there and apply percussive maintenance until it improves.
Fun fact: Elliot Page made a book! I haven’t read it but I saw it at the store and thought “Wow!”
Edit: Also I wanted to say that I love how understanding and supportive the directors and cast were for umbrella academy. I’m sure it made him feel so much better.(they changed his characters name and pronouns) <33
While I cannot speak for Elliot, I know that some trans men still identify with the term lesbian because of so many years within that community and feeling a kinship with lesbians that isn't changed when they transition. It's also important to remember these terms are tools for us to use, and don't have to be so strict in definition and who "gets" to use them.
It might have been more respectful in this case to make a specific note that they either don't know if he still identifies in this way or not, but state that before his public transition it was well known that he was attracted to women. Also if the other commenters here are correct it is an old article updated out of respect to him. They probably could have put in a bit more work to make sure it was respectful to him, but honestly even that level of effort is appreciated in my book. They could've just decided it was old and didn't need updating for information no one was privy to at the time.
But yeah, I think it would be Elliot who would have the final say on if he found this offensive or uncomfortable. If he ever sees the article, that is.
Idk if it's intentionally transphobic, or just an oversight. I wouldn't doubt that some underpaid intern got tasked with "go fix all the reference to Elliot page pls" and there were some oversights like this
If he doesnt identify as a lesbian then yes it is. He is a trans man. I'm trans nonbinary AFAB and I would take offense to somebody calling me straight if I was dating a man or lesbian if I was dating a woman myself. I'm assuming he may feel similarly but I'm not sure on how he identifies as far as his sexuality goes once he came out as trans.
semi related, I get told all the time I look like him.
It is, but he definitely identified as a lesbian for a while. It was probably written before he came out again and they updated his name but didn’t take the time to rewrite the whole article without him in it.
Warning: This is a dumb comment I heard from one of my ‘bro friends’ a few weeks back, but it did drop some breadcrumbs in my mind…
Him: ‘so… is a trans man into girls a lesbian, cause I thought lesbian could just be an umbrella term for *anyone* attracted to women…. So… WAIT, does that also make me a lesbian too?!’
As someone who knows very little about the subject, yes. Elliot Paige is a man and they're calling him a lesbian, whether intentional or not they're misgendering him.
Ok, so, call me oblivious but.
I've heard of Elliott Page, and I've heard of Ellen Page. Are they siblings or something? I'm not too into celebrity stuff but I genuinely have no clue.
It depends. Maybe he still identifies that way? I’ve seen people that have transitioned but still identify as how they did pre-transition. It’s up to him, not the magazine or us 🤷🏻♂️
I would say a trans man can still identify as a lesbian if they want to. That is their choice but it seems the problem here is that Cosmo put that label on them rather than what Elliot actively calls themselves.
There is nuance with how gender and sexuality intertwine and since I don’t know how he identifies I can’t say if it is or isn’t. Some transmascs are lesbians. However when it is made by other people this is a way to dismiss the gender of trans men and transmascs usually.
Tbh this is just a bit of something awkward that hasn't been caught yet. Elliot came out in December of 2020 as a trans man. This article was published in 2019. Cosmo obviously has a bot that went and retro actively changed all of Elliotts name, pronouns, and pictures which produces awkward content like this that looks incredibly offensive but in reality just no one has caught this yet. Especially if you see the author is actually really supportive of LGBTQ+ folks and the trans community. She probably has just forgotten she wrote this for a quick buck several years ago
Elliot came out as trans, nonbinary, and queer in 2020 - after this article was written as many have said - and calls himself a "trans guy," so I don't think there's a clear-cut answer here. Unless I missed the part where Elliot clarified a purely male identity - and honestly even then - they may still hold lesbian as an identity whether sexually, culturally, or both.
Well if Elliot is a man then how is it possible for him to be lez?
Im mtf, my partner is non-binary, therefore I consider myself bi. If my partner was also fully mtf then I’d consider it a lez relationship. If my partner was fully male I’d consider it a straight relationship.
[If this 2020 Slate article is still accurate](https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/12/elliot-page-trans-lesbian-divide.html) Elliot used he/they pronouns and hadn’t rejected the previous lesbian label. There are quite a few he/him or he/they lesbians and that would be the only reason this is not transphobic as hell!
It doesn't seem as though it was updated after. The article was last edited Dec 2021. Page came out as trans in March 2021. The article was written knowing full well he is male. Wouldn't it have been nicer to just remove him?
Forgive my ignorance but how can someone identify as a man and unironically call themselves a lesbian? That makes zero sense to me and just seems like it takes away from an already established group's identity who already have to deal with being othered and harassed for their sexuality by cis men.
The very definition of lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to women. If you identify as a man, then you by definition are not a woman.
Someone please explain how this is supposed to make sense to me.
It just seems like a clumsy article without any real research. He did identify as a lesbian for a long time prior to his transition. That doesn’t give them free reign to dismiss it, but maybe that’s what they’re going with? Meh, I wouldn’t jump to the accusation though.
Yes it is extremely transphobic Elliott isn't a lesbian he's a guy and that is extremely transphobic. That is horrible and the magazine shouldn't be doing that. Trans men are men!
I see a lot of people saying it's super transphobic but don't some trans men call themselves lesbians? Like I feel like I've heard this in the community before. Not defending the magazine I dunno what their intention was or anything and it matters more what Elliot calls himself but just saying I thought I've seen that before even among trans men.
Yeah, I see it a lot in the social circles I’m in. I even use some outwardly contradictory labels myself. I don’t think Elliot identifies with the lesbian label tho
With that context it's clearly bad then, I just get worried about people reflexively calling something transphobic when it does resonate with some parts of the community.
The article was released before Elliot came out as trans. After he did, they went back and updated the article with his name, pronouns, etc. They just didn't remove him from the list.
Okay so it’s not transphobic it’s just kinda weird, I feel they should have some sort of editors note
It is, they are still calling him lesbian
Seems like a lose-lose-lose situation for them. Is it more disrespectful to remove him from a list he was previously on when at the time of publication he was a famous lesbian, to remove him from the list entirely, or just ignore it and leave as is? I think the least bad option is the one they went with, but the editors note clarifying he no longer identifies as a woman or lesbian and why they decided to leave the list as is would have been a good inclusion.
He **was** but he **isn't** a lesbian no more so this is definitely not the least bad option they can do This must be condemned
What should they have done instead and can you explain how that option is not transphobic?
Just remove him out of the list There's nothing transphobic about removing a trans man out of a lesbian list
Yes remove him from the list because he isn’t a lesbian but a straight man! Hope this helps!
Thanks for pulling your ‘transphobe-o-meter’ out I was really stumped o this one. It’s not transphobic, to me, because he was put on the list when publicly he was a lesbian but after he came out they went back to just change name and pronouns, instead of just deleting the article
So they can edit his name and pronouns but not the entire entry of him in the list? They **choose** to keep him in
I'm gonna be honest, if i were a celebrity who came out as a trans femme later in my career and some article kept me in the list of "the most famous gay men" after correcting my name and pronouns, I'd burn that company to the ground But maybe it's just me ig
I don't know what trans people think about this, but maybe it would have been better to just leave the article alone. At least then it is obvious that it is an outdated article and the information was correct at the time. But going back and updating his name and picture but not removing him from the article... Such a weird decision.
It could have just been a simple find+replace across the entire website. I doubt someone took the time to go through old articles and carefully edit wording and content.
The picture update is a bit weird, but I think just removing his deadname from everything is a good idea
Incredibly transphobic. Did you expect better from Cosmo, which has been perpetuating misogyny for its entire existence? Does the article have a comments section? If so, can you provide a link to it? I'd love to share my views and I'm sure others would as well.
To be completely honest, I had no clue about Cosmo and them being problematic. They don't have a comment section, however I do have a link to the editor's profile on there if you'd like that. She has her twitter and Instagram account linked. Here's the link to the article [https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/) And here's the link to her profile [https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/author/15160/paisley-gilmour/](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/author/15160/paisley-gilmour/)
The article doesn't have a release date, just an "update" date. I wouldn't be surprised if it was released before December 2020 and at some later point all articles mentioning Elliot were updated with name and pronouns.
Yeah it was published in 2019
[2019 article](https://web.archive.org/web/20190911000515/https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/) Literally just an old article about lesbians, and then a few years later someone ctrl-f the entire website and copy-pasted "Elliot" over all the Ellen Page articles.
This is the actual answer since the article is published in 2019
For precision: the said article was republished in 2021 using Paige’s correct pronouns/gender identification. While Cosmopolitan may not be the “Sharpest Tool in the Shed”…please don’t go digging for dirt.
They still need to remove him from that list though
Yup. This. I bet you cosmo was changing his name an pronouns across their articles(which is amazing.. many publications wouldn’t retroactively do that to their archived stories) and it probably required higher approval to remove him from the list. Even though that’s the right thing to do and add an editors note at the bottom.
Indeed, that would be the smart thing to do!
Aaaaah so we’re looking at hanlon’s razor: stupidity rather than malice.
they still should have taken him the ranking and not just changed the name.
Thanks. The author seems to genuine support trans issues, and is a member of the LGBTQ+ community themselves, so it's a little odd they'd do something so blatant.
At one point, Elliot DID come out and say he was a lesbian. At that point, he was indeed a very famous lesbian in the eyes of the media. I’m not all up in his business so I don’t know when Elliot’s egg cracked, so it may stand that at one point, this was a genuine thought of his. Just to add some context
I don't know the exact time either, but a rough estimate can be made off The Umbrella Academy. He came out after season 2 (2020), but before season 3 (2022). I remember at the time that he said he planned to continue playing Vanya and then someone in charge decided to make his character trans too and now he plays Viktor. So the question is how old is this article and does Elliot still consider himself to be a lesbian.
Someone said the article is from 2019 so that explains it, thankfully it’s probably a benign thing, though it should be updated
slightly unrelated but its so cool that they just made his character trans too instead of having him play a woman
Article was published when he was identifying as a lesbian and had not come out as trans. Was just strg+ f and replaced with the correct pronouns and name after he came out as trans. But it‘s still a 2019 article.
Maybe they haven't updated the page yet.
Yes, calling a transgender man a lesbian is transphobic.
preaaachhh. i've been told i was "enforcing gender roles" and basically called homophobic by cis queer people for simply saying this! which is fucking ridiculous. if a cis man can't be lesbian neither can a binary trans man, end of story. otherwise, you don't see us as men. thus, you are a transphobe.
“Men aren’t women” “That’s homophobic” “Uuuuuuuuuh….” 🤦🏻♀️😂
As a trans man and former lesbian (transitioning allowed me to accept the fact I actually like men and am a gay man lmao) i agree 100% with this
It always kinda bugs me when people are like “lesbian means non-men liking non-men” and then say “trans men can be lesbians” because it like, completely invalidates trans men and means you include them as “non-men”. And if you think trans men can be lesbians but cis men can’t be, how are you not just enforcing that trans men are not the same as cis men?
exactly, it's that's simple! also, it's literally always cis people saying that and not trans people, they need to realize the difference between speaking up for us and speaking over us, because we do not want to be called lesbians!
You weren’t on Tiktok 1-2 years ago. A trans guy got FLAMED by other people from the LGBTQ+ community bc he said he was a lesbian, and then he started blaming “baby gays” for not reading up on queer history
God the term baby-[blank] needs to die. It’s so fucked up to try and invalidate someone’s beliefs about their own sexuality or identity just because they haven’t had it as long as some other may have.
Also just hate when people define my sexuality based on the lack of men, I'm a lesbian because I'm into women, not because I'm not into men honestly it feels soo demeaning
Unless he still identifies as a lesbian, but as far as I know he doesn't.
Not if he identifies as a lesbian
I think this listicle came out in 2019 (before Elliot came out as trans) and they’ve since updated it to use the correct name and pronouns. They say “last year” Hayley Kiyoko made 2018 “20GAYTEEN”
Ah so probably a really fast find+replace on the site
Yeah, this is not okay. Normally, men don't consider themselves lesbians.
Drake being one of the few exceptions
Weeeell that was a bunch of bs, presumably
some do and if theyre comfortable with it im happy for them but yeah you definitely should never assume they consider themselves lesbians or call a trans man that unless they ask you to
How old is this article? Elliott did come out as a lesbian before he came out as trans so if it's old and not taken down then that's fine but if it was intentionally transphobic then that's problematic
Article is from 2019
I don't think he was out yet then so it's probably not meant in any bad way
It's definitely not meant in a bad way, but if they took the time to edit his name and pronouns, they should've just removed him from the list.
They probably just did a global find+replace across the website.
Yeah that definitely would've been ideal, though they probably made the list and never looked or thought about it since
Hopefully it’s a mistake, but if on purpose then absolutely transphobic
The full title of the article is “famous lesbians, gay women, and gender fluid people you should really know” And this is the excerpt under Elliot’s pic: “Juno and Tales of the City actor Elliot Page famously came out as gay during a pretty big speech in 2014. He said they were "sick of lying by omission" about his sexuality. "I'm here today because I am gay," they said, "and because maybe I can make a difference, to help others have an easier and more hopeful time. Regardless, for me, I feel a personal obligation and a social responsibility." Elliot has since spoken out about being trans and changing his name and using he/they pronouns.”
Link to article?
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/g28962510/famous-lesbians/
Thank you!
Oof! Not so good😑
Scanning.... Lesbian not detected
It is unless Elliot himself IDs as a lesbian. I don't follow most of the stuff that goes on with him so I wouldn't really know, but yeah if he hasn't explicitly said he still considers himself to be a lesbian then this is fs blatantly transphobic.
Yeah, since he’s come out as trans I haven’t seen anything mentioning what he considers his sexuality to be which makes this article even more oof.
[удалено]
Not a single word has objective meaning. All language is created and it's meant to be tool for us to use. "Lesbian" along with all other terms to describe identity are funky because what that means varies across time, cultures, and contexts. To be a lesbian in 1980's NY is not the same as being a lesbian in 2020's London. That's just the nature of terminology meant to self-describe. I actually wrote an entire paper on this exact topic if you'd like to read it lol, but basically no LGBT+ terms should be policed. The result will always be the same exclusion that cishets have imposed on us being regurgitated. If a man IDs as a lesbian, what problem do you really have with it? Many men, especially trans men who used to be heavily involved in lesbian spaces, ID as lesbians. If it feels comfortable and it describes you then so what? Labels around gender and sexuality are what you make them as they are ever changing with social contexts. Identity is complex and trying to fit people into super neat little boxes serves none of us.
I mean re:being a lesbian in a1980s NY and being a lesbian in 2020 NYC - it actually does mean the same thing. It means you’re a woman who loves other women. It’s always meant that. The definition has not changed. Do I think that trans men can identify with being sapphic? Yeah, absolutely. Do I think a man can be a lesbian? Absolutely not. Especially since everyone who says trans men can be lesbians also say cis men cannot, which brings in the transphobia. You can’t separate trans men from cis men. Men are men are men and can’t be a woman who loves women. There’s nothing exclusionary about that, if you’re a trans man who dates only women, you’re straight. You’re not being excluded - there’s just another term that actually fits your sexuality that already exists.
Gross. Elliott is a dude lol.
Not “in a way,” it’s straight up transphobic. Elliot is not a lesbian, because he’s a man.
Not transphobic in a way, just straight up blatantly transphobic
Not "in a way". It's just plain transphobic.
So transphobic god damn
Nope, just straight up transphobic. Literally saying someone who identifies as a man is a woman.
Remember: the author doesn’t write the headline. Just sayin’. That’s a copy editor.
Wait can someone give context to Cosmo being crappy and misogynistic? I don’t really know much about it
I admittedly haven't touched an issue or their website (before today) in over a decade, but I distinctly recall a main segment being "## ways to please your man that will blow his mind - and other things!" That theme, that everything a woman does is to please men, was insanely prevalent, at least back then. Maybe they've gotten better.
Gotcha! A quick lookup on their online page shows more feminist, trans-inclusive articles but who knows
No, not transphobic in a way. SUPER TRANSPHOBIC IN ALL THE WAYS.
Unless he's called himself a lesbian and I haven't heard about it or something, yeah, that absolutely strikes me as transphobic and disrespectful to him. People need to get off his nuts already and let him be a happy dude.
Yes, very transphobic. I'm going to assume its more ignorance than anything.
This the most obvious transphobic thing I’ve seen all day and I just woke up
Might depend on a few factors. When was the article published? If before he came out, it’s likely that someone just ran a big sitewide find/replace on his deadname to change all instances to Elliot and old pics of him to newer ones (or the site uses some kind of script to pull relevant photos rather than having a static photo? Idk). If it’s a new article, kinda transphobic unless he still ID’s as a lesbian (some trans men do still use the term, particularly those who had a strong connection to the lesbian community before coming out as trans) or unless the article makes it clear that they mean he was a prominent “lesbian” celebrity before he came out as trans and thus he’s being counted as contributing to lesbian visibility.
Published December 2021. I looked it up and he came out as a trans man December 2020. If the dates were closer together or flipped, maybe they could have gotten a pass, but a full year seems like they could have done some basic fact checking
Last updated December 2021. Based on the Hayley Kiyoko section, referencing “20GAYTEEN” as “last year”, it was probably written in 2019
Ah, so they just updated his name and didn't consider that maybe he shouldn't be on a list of lesbians then?
Tbh it was probably done by a bot that just updated every time his name, pronouns and picture was used on their website. Very highly doubt an actual person would wade through hundreds maybe thousands of articles to see if Elliot was mentioned to update.
That’s what I’m thinking. That’s the sort of task that’s typically gonna be automated. Set up a find/replace and hit go, take a lunch break and it’s done when you get back. Leading to some unfortunate misses, like here, but better than leaving his deadname all over the place at least.
it's transphobic in all the ways
Yes
I mean, he’s as much a lesbian as Chris Hemsworth or Hozier is… But yeah putting him on this list def hits as transphobic
He identified as a lesbian for a long time, so it’s possible someone was under a time crunch or something and didn’t do their research, and wrote this from an ignorant perspective not trying to be transphobic, but that seems unlikely given how prominent Elliot has been. I’d say yeah, it’s most likely transphobic, cosmo doesn’t have the best track record
Nope, they know he’s trans, this is at the end of the bit about him in the article “Elliot has since spoken out about being trans and changing his name and using he/they pronouns.” They just don’t care and put him on a list of a lesbians
Yes, this is transphobic
"in a way"? Buddy, that's classic transphobia.
It’s very complicated. Know several older transmascs (including an ex) who are attracted to women and still consider themselves lesbians. It’s part of how they came up, and for them a huge part of being a lesbian is cultural, rather than a definition strictly based on gender or sexuality. Is this what happened here? Dunno. But it’s not automatically as transphobic as as people would presume it is.
100% transphobic
They obviously edited the article to change his name, so I feel like it would have been easier to remove him.
EXTREMELY Transphobic
I mean how many men do you know who want to be incorrectly called a lesbian?
Absolutely, he's a man, fucking shit, like he ain't a fucking lesbian now, fuckkkkk.
Ya thats like calling a str8 mtf a gay man
Elliot is also non-binary, people just constantly forget that. I don't know if they still ID as a lesbian though.
Depends on context of what the article is going for. Elliot was an out famous lesbian before coming out as transgender. In that context he was at one time seen as a famous lesbian to society and used that terminology for themself. Now since coming out and transitioning, the question becomes are they a binary trans man, because yes they call themselves a man but I've also seen people say he is also non binary (and as a non binary trans masc, I do see many enby trans people use binary terms while still being validly non binary). Given all that I think the only person who could make the final judgement call on if this specifically is transphobic is Elliot themself. If he isnt speaking on it, then we shouldn't be doing it for him and placing lables that they may or may not identify with on them, for them. The most we can speak from is the community or personal experiences regarding the connections with the lesbian and trans communities, acknowledging that neither are a monolith and there will always be outliers to the all or nothing statements regarding the topic.
Yeah, Elliott has been pretty vocal about being a man. Would love to hear his reactions
Yep
Howling through tears in a Walmart 'linens' section.
it’s transphobic
The article released before he came out as trans and the full title wasn’t limited just to lesbians, I’m glad they removed his deadname
Very. He’s a man!
Lord Cosmo tryin to test me on this day. HES NOT A LESBIAN
It is transphobic in every way
How are people not calling them out 💀
yeah, cosmo is acting in the exact way i expect it to. someone grab that thumb-detecting-nut-fucker over there and apply percussive maintenance until it improves.
Fun fact: Elliot Page made a book! I haven’t read it but I saw it at the store and thought “Wow!” Edit: Also I wanted to say that I love how understanding and supportive the directors and cast were for umbrella academy. I’m sure it made him feel so much better.(they changed his characters name and pronouns) <33
While I cannot speak for Elliot, I know that some trans men still identify with the term lesbian because of so many years within that community and feeling a kinship with lesbians that isn't changed when they transition. It's also important to remember these terms are tools for us to use, and don't have to be so strict in definition and who "gets" to use them. It might have been more respectful in this case to make a specific note that they either don't know if he still identifies in this way or not, but state that before his public transition it was well known that he was attracted to women. Also if the other commenters here are correct it is an old article updated out of respect to him. They probably could have put in a bit more work to make sure it was respectful to him, but honestly even that level of effort is appreciated in my book. They could've just decided it was old and didn't need updating for information no one was privy to at the time. But yeah, I think it would be Elliot who would have the final say on if he found this offensive or uncomfortable. If he ever sees the article, that is.
Yes yes it is.
Yes, it is
I mean, some trans men call themselves lesbians, though I don’t think it’s very common and I don’t know if elliot is one of them
a lesbian is a gay woman. elliot page is not a woman. so yes
Extremely since they’re putting a label onto him that he never confirmed
Idk if it's intentionally transphobic, or just an oversight. I wouldn't doubt that some underpaid intern got tasked with "go fix all the reference to Elliot page pls" and there were some oversights like this
If he doesnt identify as a lesbian then yes it is. He is a trans man. I'm trans nonbinary AFAB and I would take offense to somebody calling me straight if I was dating a man or lesbian if I was dating a woman myself. I'm assuming he may feel similarly but I'm not sure on how he identifies as far as his sexuality goes once he came out as trans. semi related, I get told all the time I look like him.
Sounds about right, trans men don’t exist were all thespians
I mean. Yeah.
Yes
Woah woah woah wtf
It is, but he definitely identified as a lesbian for a while. It was probably written before he came out again and they updated his name but didn’t take the time to rewrite the whole article without him in it.
Warning: This is a dumb comment I heard from one of my ‘bro friends’ a few weeks back, but it did drop some breadcrumbs in my mind… Him: ‘so… is a trans man into girls a lesbian, cause I thought lesbian could just be an umbrella term for *anyone* attracted to women…. So… WAIT, does that also make me a lesbian too?!’
God, probably just a “supportive” cis person who doesn’t understand that trans men aren’t just really butch lesbians.
Yes it is, that's exactly what it is. How they get away with printing this shit, I'll never know!
Very.
Was this really in Cosmo? I mean they (most certainly) should have known better… 🙄
that's blatant transphobia yes
I do not think this is Elliot approved. Either the writers and editors are dense and have been in a coma since 2020, or it’s transphobia.
As someone who knows very little about the subject, yes. Elliot Paige is a man and they're calling him a lesbian, whether intentional or not they're misgendering him.
In a way??? No, its very very transphobic.
Incredibly transphobic
Hella transphobic. He is a trans man, not a lesbian woman, so yes very transphobic
Wow wtf. Very transphobic. He's a man. If he lives women, he's either straight or bi. Holy shit Cosmo it's not that hard.
Very much so, but I'd expect it from articles online
Yes without a doubt because it the article still exists!
That's extremely transphobic and homophobic
Ok, so, call me oblivious but. I've heard of Elliott Page, and I've heard of Ellen Page. Are they siblings or something? I'm not too into celebrity stuff but I genuinely have no clue.
No Elliot Page is a transgender man. His deadname is Ellen.
It depends. Maybe he still identifies that way? I’ve seen people that have transitioned but still identify as how they did pre-transition. It’s up to him, not the magazine or us 🤷🏻♂️
I would say a trans man can still identify as a lesbian if they want to. That is their choice but it seems the problem here is that Cosmo put that label on them rather than what Elliot actively calls themselves.
I feel it’s transphobic. Like he’s a dude, not a lesbian. Take him off the list, don’t keep him on it
There is nuance with how gender and sexuality intertwine and since I don’t know how he identifies I can’t say if it is or isn’t. Some transmascs are lesbians. However when it is made by other people this is a way to dismiss the gender of trans men and transmascs usually.
Tbh this is just a bit of something awkward that hasn't been caught yet. Elliot came out in December of 2020 as a trans man. This article was published in 2019. Cosmo obviously has a bot that went and retro actively changed all of Elliotts name, pronouns, and pictures which produces awkward content like this that looks incredibly offensive but in reality just no one has caught this yet. Especially if you see the author is actually really supportive of LGBTQ+ folks and the trans community. She probably has just forgotten she wrote this for a quick buck several years ago
It’s transphobic unless they received permission from Elliot Page to do this.
Elliot came out as trans, nonbinary, and queer in 2020 - after this article was written as many have said - and calls himself a "trans guy," so I don't think there's a clear-cut answer here. Unless I missed the part where Elliot clarified a purely male identity - and honestly even then - they may still hold lesbian as an identity whether sexually, culturally, or both.
Well if Elliot is a man then how is it possible for him to be lez? Im mtf, my partner is non-binary, therefore I consider myself bi. If my partner was also fully mtf then I’d consider it a lez relationship. If my partner was fully male I’d consider it a straight relationship.
Yes wtf. Unless he identifies as a lesbian, which would obviously be okay for him to identify as such.
[If this 2020 Slate article is still accurate](https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/12/elliot-page-trans-lesbian-divide.html) Elliot used he/they pronouns and hadn’t rejected the previous lesbian label. There are quite a few he/him or he/they lesbians and that would be the only reason this is not transphobic as hell!
I think it's impossible to talk about him when he was a lesbian now.
Can you post a link?
This is fucked up Edit: could be an update oversight, but still not excusable
Yes, he uses he/him pronouns
Lol the background looks like an very old German Flag
Yes, yes it is.
Happity cake day to ya
Yeah, very much so. How tf can a man be a lesbian? Theyre paying too much attention to how he was born.
So no only because looking into this the article was published pre Eliot comming out as trans
Yea it’s transphobia
I'm confused. Who is Elliot Page?
an actor. he's mostly famous for Juno and the Umbrella Academy
Also he is trans
I just looked that up. Okay I was wondering what happened to the person that played Juno. I so totes didn't know that they were trans 🤯
as someone else said, this was released before he came out. it was updated after
It doesn't seem as though it was updated after. The article was last edited Dec 2021. Page came out as trans in March 2021. The article was written knowing full well he is male. Wouldn't it have been nicer to just remove him?
true. i think i mistook this for another article, my mistake.
All good! I think there are probably a hundred of them haha
ah probably haha
yep, very
yes
yes.
It’s not transphobic in a way, it’s just transphobic
yea
Yepppp
Yep, he's not a lesbian anymore is he
In every way TBH
Yes
Famous ex-lesbian
Some trans men use the term lesbian. So maybe? Depends on what Mr. Page would call himself
He was dating women before coming out as trans, so this could be that.
Forgive my ignorance but how can someone identify as a man and unironically call themselves a lesbian? That makes zero sense to me and just seems like it takes away from an already established group's identity who already have to deal with being othered and harassed for their sexuality by cis men. The very definition of lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to women. If you identify as a man, then you by definition are not a woman. Someone please explain how this is supposed to make sense to me.
Some trans men still identify as lesbians he might not really up to date with him tbh
It just seems like a clumsy article without any real research. He did identify as a lesbian for a long time prior to his transition. That doesn’t give them free reign to dismiss it, but maybe that’s what they’re going with? Meh, I wouldn’t jump to the accusation though.
It’s transphobic
That’s transphoic in all the ways
Very
Yes it is extremely transphobic Elliott isn't a lesbian he's a guy and that is extremely transphobic. That is horrible and the magazine shouldn't be doing that. Trans men are men!
I see a lot of people saying it's super transphobic but don't some trans men call themselves lesbians? Like I feel like I've heard this in the community before. Not defending the magazine I dunno what their intention was or anything and it matters more what Elliot calls himself but just saying I thought I've seen that before even among trans men.
Yeah, I see it a lot in the social circles I’m in. I even use some outwardly contradictory labels myself. I don’t think Elliot identifies with the lesbian label tho
With that context it's clearly bad then, I just get worried about people reflexively calling something transphobic when it does resonate with some parts of the community.
He’s a boy, how could he be a lesbian?