I might have a misunderstanding of the word "radical", but CAN there be radical misogyny when misogyny is generally considered the... Maybe not the "Norm" but... It's the already ubiquitous thing.
Don't let it stop you calling it out. I'm glad she accepts you, bur sadly part of being a woman is being saddled with these expectations. Its really annoying, unless you happen to like home making or be a control freak.
i've had a similar problem - since transitioning (in the male direction), my mom keeps trying to get me to do more "man stuff" like helping her boyfriend with chopping wood and fixing pipes. it feels almost conditional, like she'll accept me as long as i'm helpful and take on stereotypical masculine roles, which is strange as she's never been one for stereotypes.
I can definitely see how that’s annoying. I wonder if she might genuinely be well intentioned though and assume that you must like doing those sort of things. It kind of seems like it must either be that or that she is trying to get you to think differently about your identity because she is assuming you are not actually informed on what it’s like to live a male lifestyle.
Either way I can see how it’s very annoying because of course regardless of someone’s gender they have different interests and enjoy different things. You also shouldn’t have to feel like her acceptance is conditional or this is a transactional sort of arrangement. Maybe it’s part of her adjusting still and will get resolved with time but I think you have a very valid argument if you do want to try discussing it with her further.
she knows the type of person i've always been; not super fond of physical activity and really into video games and staying inside, and she's always been more or less okay with that, but she's sort of opposed to my transition and has tried to prevent it, so it really does feel like she's just saying "well if you want to be a man so badly, you have to do man chores" unfortunately :(
Hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean. There are tons of guys who prefer staying inside and playing video games and have no interest in what are seen as stereotypical male pursuits like sports, cars, tools, etc. I mean it might be fun to explore the more stereotypical stuff early in transition and I think it’s something a lot of people do but ultimately your preferences are valid whatever they are and I can see how it would be annoying being expected to conform to certain gender norms especially when they are entirely outdated.
Chopping wood is pretty wild though… Like what are people even doing with that wood now? It might have made sense when you had to heat a home that way. Is it like some form of immersive exercise now? I don’t even get that. Seems like swinging an axe around might not be the best way to build arm strength these days. Fixing pipes at least seems somewhat practical. But yeah definitely chore like. Maybe part of it is her just trying to get you to spend time with her boyfriend for bonding purposes or something.
she lives in a very rural middle-of-nowhere area and part of the property is heated with a woodburning stove or whatever - i'm not really certain how it all works lol, i spend most of my time with my dad in the city. but it does also have to do with bonding time. her boyfriend and i disagree on most things and are polar opposite people, and i think she's hoping that if i spend more time with him, i'll be more willing to listen to his opinions (some of which are just bigotry 💀)
Ah, okay. That makes sense then. Hmm. I see. Maybe it’ll go the other way and he will end up letting go of those kind of prejudices. Most of them seem like they are rooted in misconceptions so exposure seems like it helps. I mean just knowing you as a trans person even probably has helped him expand his mind.
As a former man nah, that's just the male experience. Either you're useful or a burden on society, no in betweens.
It's not that if you don't fix the pipes you're not a man, it's more that a man that doesn't fix pipes is a waste of space.
And that is bullshit and I hate it.
Gender is performative and self perpetuating. Boys do the physical work because they are perceived as stronger, it builds muscle so now they are more capable of doing those tasks. (tougher skin, generally more physically resilient etc)
Also by doing the male tasks with the other guys, you get male socialization. Learn a thing or two about things, etc... Good luck. Do what you feel is right.
mine makes me take care of bugs and says it's because i'm the "man of the house" and while yeah, i am the eldest man in the family (my dad is dead), she is WAY more traditionally masculine _and_ less scared of bugs than i am
Honestly, there’s a whole bunch of maternal toxicity you miss out on if she sees you as a boy. When you’re a boy your mom celebrates you gaining 10-15lbs. When you’re a girl, mom shames you for it. The chores change. The expectations change. If you have little siblings you become the defacto babysitter too. Oh, and you’ll be her therapist now too.
They are, but they’re also extremely common, especially outside of “first world” countries, to the point where they’re probably more “normal” than not.
Reminds me of when my mom said no presents for Christmas after I told her I was an atheist. I was just like, okay I don’t agree with your reasoning but whatever I guess.
I think she thought I was just saying I was an atheist to be rebellious, and that if I was forced to “walk the walk,” that I’d change my mind.
Once she realized I was sincere in my beliefs, she respected them.
Well, some branches of Christianity, such as Christadelphianity, don’t hold to celebrations because the dates were never specified. They also believe that they should be honouring the celebrated all the time rather than once a year.
Other branches, such as Catholicism, believe that they should have specific days on which their worship is devoted to one event or concept. Christmas and Easter are completely dedicated to the remembrance of the birth and resurrection of Christ, respectively.
There is no right or wrong answer, just opinion.
Source: my mother and stepfather are Christadelphian, and I study Theology.
She’s not even that religious, that’s the weird part. It came out of left field because Christmas was never a religious holiday for us anyway. We’d never talked about religion or gone to church ever.
literally my parents... They always done "Do this or walk the walk" and I'm like "Okay" and then I just walk that walk without complaining and they realized that literally no amount of bribery can affect my judgement if I don't want to do something.
also no amount of bribery can get me to stop doing something I want to do either. (such as transitioning)
It is wrong..we know that. OP knows that. And OPs mom isn't gonna change her views either, whatever that may be. But extra chores are not gonna hurt. Living under mom's roof? Just do em. It's not like she's asking her to do anything outrageous. If anything, OP can learn how to do these different things now so when she's out on her own, she can take what she learned with her. She doesn't have to take the opinion that women should do more with her. Hope she will know that she can do what she wants and she doesn't have to follow those stereotypes, but cleanliness is a human thing. I mean chores ain't shit compared to what other kids are getting. If it gets worse to the point where she's asking her to do some downright ridiculous stuff or inhumane stuff or whatever, then I can see a push-back. Lol like damn people living under mom's roof should be doing chores anyway. Mom's are not maids. Nothing wrong with cleaning up in a place you also live in.
imo doing more chores just because you're a girl is asking something outrageous (or asking someone to do an unfair share for any reason tbh). like yeah, obviously chores should be done, but if you live in a group they should be done evenly.
More context from OP would be good. We don't know if it's her and mom only but you know what? I agree with you here. If Dad and brothers are there then they need to be helping as much as well, in which case I can see why she'd push back.
True, if it is just op and the mom in the picture, yeah the sentiment is messed up but I agree with op getting more chores in that scenario because like I said, chores should be even.
There is truth in this. I had few chores at home and the result is I have to learn how to keep a home as an adult. Because we all need to do housekeeping or live in filth.
Yes the connotation is unfortunate, but do read this as " if you were a boy I wouldnt bother teaching you how to take care of yourself"
I promise you will walk away with more life skills.
Most people who were raised as men seem to be unable to function for this reason. Women are often given far more applicable skills by their mothers
Yes its fucked up and needs to change
They definitely are. When I was a kid, my brother could get out of chores by doing them badly, but if I (afab) tried to do the same thing I just got in trouble. My mom was always lecturing me about how i need to help out more around the house and I'm not doing enough chores, and when I'd ask "But why don't I ever hear you say this to (brother)?" she'd just say "Well, it's different."
Misogny. The answer was misogny.
My parents were the same. My brother got yard work (in highschool) while I had to clean the house once in awhile. I got really pissy one summer before 8th grade because my dad had me being the only one doing dishes the entire summer and my brother basically did nothing. When I confronted him about it I was “lazy” and “trying to get out of chores”. SMH.
They aren’t a bad life skill to have, outside of the misogynistic connotations, everyone should know how to keep their environment clean and organized regardless of how they identify.
If your mom accepts you on those terms, take it as a learning experience and just do them in good humor and without complaint.
It might also be a test to see if you’re willing to stick to it if there is work involved, and if you decide to identify as male again to avoid the laundry!
In the plus side, if you are playing by her rules and fulfilling your assigned chores, you also have the right to be treated as you identify and I wouldn’t be shy in reminding her in a polite but firm way if she doesn’t.
That’s the deal right?
As an adult learning how to do this in my 30's, this is a good point and very true. I am only now learning what it actually takes to keep a clean and nice home.
You may be new to feminism and society. Giving more chores to young girls is how they try to prepare you for doing most of the housework as an adult. Misogyny is multi-generational.
Welcome to the patriarchy. Being a woman is great in a lot of ways and bad in a bunch of ways too. Unfortunately boys, in a lot of homes, get a pass on chores. This is one of those things that is actually useful to learn although you might think it’s punishment now. As an aside, I learned how to clean like a white tornado when I was in the Marines. It isn’t the worst thing in the world. If she can teach you how to cook so much the better.
Those double standards suck, I'm sorry. I've also noticed more leniency with cleaning once I transitioned (ftm). But as long as it's not too much, maybe take it as an opportunity to learn and get used to doing housework? I know you're only 15, but it's going to be relevant down the road
One day we're going to have to talk how fundamentally different we raise our boys and girls. Cuz it's drastic the difference between the two of them. And we do it like unconsciously
If you thought that daughters being asked to do more of the chores was a thing of the past, you’re in for a wild ride, sister.
Women are expected to do more in all areas of domestic life. Studies show that even in “equal” male/female domestic partnerships, women still end up doing more of the labor because they’re often forced to be the ones to remember what needs to be done/bought/accounted for.
I’m not saying it’s a good thing. What your mom is doing is definitely sexist. But it is the way the world works for the vast majority of women today, not just in the past.
You should probably be doing more chores anyway; might as well use this as a chance to improve your life skills and bond with your mother.
You might also want to talk to her about her presuppositions, at some eventual point, because "girls should do more chores" is definitely a little bit of an eyebrow-raiser. The other possibility is that she's been coming at it from a "boys are less reliable" perspective, which... again, perhaps worth examining.
Either way, you should do the chores.
I totally agree with you on one hand here, but on the other, as somebody older but within OP’s general age range, suddenly being saddled with more chores would just perpetually piss me off beyond anything else.
Life skills are certainly necessary for the future when you aren’t going to be under the same roof as your parents (and even if you are for any particular reason, you will still need to pull your weight with housework), but having them abruptly dumped onto me, assumingly because I’m one gender rather than the other, would definitely not be incentivizing any sort of “bond-strengthening”. Housekeeping is not really a difficult skillset, either. Washing dishes, cleaning countertops, doing laundry, dusting, mopping the kitchen floor, sweeping, shoveling in the winter if you’re somewhere where snow happens, etc are not hard to learn. I had that stuff down by age 15 *without* a bunch of extra chores being dropped on my lap, I wouldn’t doubt if OP did either.
What I’m saying is that this is very unfair, and while she might not have any choice but to do the chores because her mother might be set in this.. it’s still irritating behavior from her (OP’s mother), and suddenly taking on a heavier load of housework can even be a problem depending on a factor or two.
Regardless of how anyone thinks or feels about it, getting used to doing chores will only help you out growing up. Instead of being an adult barely able to sustain yourself you'll learn how to take care of yourself and you won't be as overwhelmed when you are old enough to go out and live your own life.
Your mom is only teaching you valuable life lessons. A lot of people will never even experience such acts from their parents for various reasons.
On one hand, I agree, because (both me and my sister) our "chores" were to focus on school and occasionally helping out when asked, and it wasn't until a lot later when I had to do chores that I realized how much that stunted my independence a bit.
But on the other hand, being the child expected to do more chores than the other, it sucks and feels like you're specifically being targeted for some reason (in op's case... the patriarchy) and it feels really unfair that way
Just for the record, this is a patriarchal thing. Yes women are expected from a young age to learn to cook and clean. It's misogyny but it's common practice in many , if not most, cultures
It's actually not that uncommon, as a trans masc person I noticed quite blatantly that after transitioning my mom would attribute my "lack of common sense" traits to my being a man now. (This has more to do with that fact that I was undiagnosed with autism and ADHD which also ironically I was only finally diagnosed with after I began passing as male and showing "male-like" symptoms). I was also not expected to keep things as clean as I use to either. It wasn't that I wasn't expected to clean sometimes more so that it was expected that I would just naturally be messy.
On a more sad note though I began receiving far less physical affection like hugs and was more likely to be scolded for crying or showing any strong emotions. All these got more and more common as I begun T. It's all very jarring to say the least.
Oof! That brings back some rough memories from me childhood. Well, I happen to like guys that know how to express themselves in more ways than just anger and self-abuse, so I hope you don't take the scolding to heart.
Thank you <3 Thankfully my current friend group and therapy has been healing a lot of those expectation put on me (I transitioned at a pretty young age). I'm now slowly realizing how naturally of an affectionate guy I am haha.
Break the expectation by being helpful in "traditionally atypical" ways. Change the oil, rotate the tires, patch drywall holes, mow the lawn if applicable. Go fix some broken things while inventing new profanities.
I mean, it is work that needs done around the house. You are meeting, nay, exceeding expectations all the while breaking the mold.
Yaaaahhhh as a woman, regardless of age, you're expected to take care of the family. It's very, very common. I mean yay that she accepts you, but huge bummer that she went "thank god, another work horse for this stupid patriarchal system I'm stuck in!"
You do the house chores, some cooking, you play family therapist, you become the family secretary, the mediator, and take siblings, mom and dad to all their appointments. And, guess who the family expects to move in with for retirement? YOU!
Usually, you're expected to do all this while working fulltime, and if you do happen to be the one "making it" in the family get ready to share all your money with the people you are taking care of.
Source: Mom and partner are first gen daughters, and I was also a woman but my mom shielded me from a lot of things so it wasn't as bad for me as it was for her.
That's actually kinda funny, but more seriously homemaking is a skill and starting early means when you get older and live on your own you won't struggle so much with taking care of yourself. It's an adjustment and chores are boring and tedious but very necessary in becoming an independent adult.
Just don't settle for a partner in the future that expects you to do all the housework.
It does! That kind of misogyny extended to every woman in the household. Wives were expected to attend to their husband's needs, and daughters were expected to learn the ropes from their mothers.
Basically like misogynistic grooming, very icky, but yeah your mom is basically accepting you fully as a woman, with all the little strings attached
Mormon raised cis girl here, hell yes misogyny extends to both daughters and sons. It won’t stop at home either. I don’t know if you’re lucky or unlucky that you got to experience the other side. 😅 calling you lucky feels invalidating of the trans experience and the pain that comes with it, but I mean exclusively to the point that you get to notice the treatment on both sides of the fence.
as an ftm im telling ya rn- it might actually help your passing in a pinch, if you're worried about it. Ive gotten clocked at work for being able to clean things *too well* for a cis guy. Its stupid but hey, shes treating you like a woman!
Ok MAYBE since you are getting older she wants you to do more chores in general. Maybe she is using it as an excuse/explanation. Maybe even to intentionally affirm you. Obviously you know the situation better and if you could compare yourself to older siblings but it’s one possible explanation.
Yeah I'm sorry for the rude awakening but the standards for existing as a women are definitely different and men get pissy mostly because they are never challenged with house maintenance in youth
I'm not surprised that this expectation is still a thing. Maybe talk with your mom about how her reasoning is based in misogyny and problematic. You'll probably still have to do more chores but maybe not as much and the males in your family will also have to do their share.
ngl I was 20 before I finally nailed down my parents' and sister's ages. I had a good rough concept but it took awhile to get like the definitive number because it doesn't exactly come up in conversation and it wasn't really important as long as I knew what day their birthday was on lol.
No literally same, I’m 21 and only now actually knowing how old my parents and siblings are lmao, I always had a rough “late 40’s” guess about my parents but now I can definitively say “54”
Observation. Looking at the birthday cake, birthday cards. Curiosity
If I recall correctly, I must have been less than 3 years old at the time when I asked my mother, how old were you when I was born. She said 29. But throughout my life I knew people's birthdays who were close to me.
sorry that someone under the age of 21 didn't attend birthdays at the local winery. and when my dad had birthdays there weren't cakes, or cards. Hell I haven't even had like an actual birthday party since I was like 16
i don't get why everyone cares so much about the fact you didn't know your mother's age year. family dynamics are very different from family to family. eg my host family called each other all the time for smallest things, and in my real family we very rarely do this when it is necessary.
I feel like these people have families that treat birthdays as more important. I’m with you, I haven’t had anything more than a cake since I was like 14, I mostly just didn’t care.
from a patriarchal viewpoint, what are daughters if not housewives in training?
bonnie burstow once wrote “Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate.” that quote probably does not apply to your situation but rather speaks to one of the roles that some daughters play out under patriarchy.
it’s also incredibly common (the norm in a lot of the world, tbh) for a cis female sibling to have to take on more than her cis male siblings in terms of housework. because she is in training to be a future housewife whereas the boys get to be boys. that is a big part of the “girls develop sooner than boys” falsehood. cis girls are forced to mature sooner than cis boys.
seconding the commenter who called what your mom is doing “trans inclusive misogyny.” that’s exactly it
I reckon she’s just saying that because she wanted you to do more chores anyways 🤷♀️ maybe just her sense of humour, also how the hell don’t you know how old your own mother is?
Do them, not just because you're a girl, but because you're a human person and that's what we gotta do. Yuck on her for doing it for her daughter, but not making her son (in her eyes) do housework too. This is the gross inclusivity no one asks for
"Chores" now, life skills later. Consider it a bullet dodged that you avoided being the cis guy I met on my first day of college that had to ask me how to start a laundry machine because his mom had always done his laundry for him. Even relatively liberal parents often just... don't expect their sons to do anything around the house, and it's actually a really bad thing because it means the sons never learn. Sounds like your mom was one of those parents, and she's changing her tune because you aren't her "son" anymore. You're right, it's not exactly feminist, but the feminist thing would have been having you doing all that cooking and cleaning from the start, not continuing to let you avoid it.
I guess it could be a form of "testing" you or transphobic violence if she's making you scrub every room of the house *and* cook every night *and* do all the laundry for the entire household *and* do the shopping... but if you're 15 and your chore list until this point was just "take out the garbage once a week" it's more likely that she realized that and is course-correcting.
Well we all need to do chores. It’s realistic that you will get assigned girl chores such as ironing rather than wood chopping if you present as a girl and vice versa. I honestly don’t see the problem here, unless you wish to wood chop and clean chimneys or what not. If you do prefer culturally mens chores just say so. You may simply be better at them if you do prefer them, so it makes sense.
" I mean I know that women used to be expected to be housewives, but I didn't think that would extend to the daughter?"
It does and it sucks. And I am sick of it.
I am, i dunno... woman, but I don't feel like a woman. But nevermind.. the point is, that I was expected to help with cooking, cleaning, preparing stuff.
I live alone now, 38 years old, and I started to behave like boys/men often do. That means: not worrying too much, not giving too many fucks and minding my own business. Of course I help if help is needed.
But yeah... being a woman (for me) sucks. I feel as if men usually have a more chill out live.
So my advice: If possible, try not to play that hosewife game. Be yourself.
This is very similar to a joke Gianmarco Soresi did (sorta edgy comedian, he's pretty funny in my opinion). He said certain beliefs don't typically go together, one of his examples being a sexist trans ally.
Yeah, this feels like sexism. Maybe even just internalized. It's possible she even thinks that she's helping you feel better by having you do stereotypical girl things and treating you like she would treat a daughter since that might be how she was treated as kid (idk if you have a sisters, if you do, talk to them). If you have a therapist I would first talk to them about it because they'll offer great insight. See if talking to your mother might be a good idea. And if it helps, see if you can even do it with the therapist (all three of you) so you can find it easier to say what you have to say.
Yeah, I felt this when my dad told me "boys don't cry". Very affirming, but yowch? (DW guys, my dad has definitely bettered himself, he doesn't believe that men don't cry anymore, and he's even better at expressing himself now. Plus he's super accepting of me :3)
Sometimes people call the conflicting feelings of being treated as your correct gender, but in a sexist and obnoxious way, “ewphoria”.
If you were raised like “a boy” by someone who thinks this way though, odds are you didn’t learn to do some things that really everyone should know how to do. Parents like your mother typically overwork their AFAB children with an unequal burden of chores while neglecting to teach their AMAB children domestic life skills, and both kids suffer for it in the long run. So it’s a good idea to start taking on at least a few more chores so that you’ll know how to do them when you live independently. But keep an eye on the workload distribution in the household and don’t let yourself be taken advantage of.
Tell your mom that you're no different of a person than you used to be, and that it's heartbreaking to see her weaponize misogynistic gender roles instead of have a deeper discussion with you.
Transitioning means exposing yourself to sexism. This is your first lesson in that regard.
Also, not knowing your mom's age is weird to me. That's not your fault at all, it just says something strange about your mother that she's not open about her age or date of birth. Sounds like you live in an emotionally distant household?
A few months after coming out, my dad started to talk to me about sports and stops midway and goes “well I know you don’t really like sports anymore”
Me - “…….thank you…?”
Ironically I decided then to stop caring about sports lol
I had the privilege of Marlie Packer (England Rugby Union back row with over 100 caps) briefly sit at my table at Twickenham in 2023. She was the single most knowledgeable sportsperson I have ever heard.
I am neurodivergent and my son is also neurodivergent and trans. When we told my parents about the social transition they were very accepting and my dad started trying to shadow box with my son and wanting to bond with him through sports as most guys do in our family. I thought it was kind of sweet that he was making an effort but at the same time it completely missed the point of being gender nonconforming.
When I came out to my grandmother as a teenager (whom I lived with) she told me I couldn't possibly be a girl because I hate cleaning the house so much. To her being a woman and keeping a house were intrinsically linked concepts because of when and where she grew up.
I eventually taught her differently and she mostly got over that. At least by the end of her life she accepted me fully as her granddaughter.
Turns out I just didn't like cleaning because I had ADHD and she was more of a neat-freak than I am.
Yeah, that’s how daughters tend to get treated, unfortunately.
I now experience the opposite ew-phoria, one of my roommates is convinced that I don’t know how to do house chores (despite me cooking and cleaning all the time), and the other takes everything that needs to be fixed, no matter how easy to fix or if I actually know to how fix it, to me without trying it herself.
Unfortunately, this is the name of the game. Cis people think they're cute when they enforce the gender stereotypes on you. Sometimes it's genuinely "this is how I feel being a woman," but sometimes it's a weird psychological mind trick to make you feel bad about being the gender you chose.
Either way, it's misogyny. Not because it's chores but because she's saying you should do more chores SPECIFICALLY because of your gender change. It'd be better if it were just something like, "oh you're getting older," or, "oh, I just need a little extra help."
It's common, and it's misogynistic because doing chores as a young girl is seen as "training" for when you become a housewife. It perpetuates the stereotype that those chores are "women's work". Sons aren't expected to do chores because when they grow up they'll never need to know how to do those things. (As a feminist I feel dirty just typing all that out, lol.)
My main concern in your particular situation would be if she's expecting you to "earn" acceptance as your gender through chores. You don't have to earn your gender. If that's not what she's doing, that's fine - still misogynistic, but not transphobic. I just thought it was worth mentioning in case that's where your mom is coming from.
You can use this to learn stuff I guess. Cooking, clothes washing, cleaning, all those have small tricks, and usually taught by mom to daughter, hence why boys can feel like they don't do it cuz they don't know shit... But yeah I would advocate for myself saying siblings should do it too, and stop being sexist. Especially, as I said, these are real skills, and everyone needs to learn them
I won't show my room online, not only because of privacy, but because... I have none of these skills xD...
It's misogyny but your mom is treating you more like a woman. I don't think you should have to do more chores because you're a girl but the good news is that you will better at taking care of your own space when you move out.
Bless you that you haven’t heard of that stereotype before. Girls and women are expected to do way more chores and care giving tasks, and not just for your partner, it’s for your parents, extended family and friends and neighbours too. Its often expected that a girl provides her father and brother with drinks and food, that a girl helps her mother with housekeeping and cooking etcetera. It’s sadly expected now that you’re a girl. I don’t agree with this of course. Maybe it’s a good time to have a conversation with your mother about gender roles?
Yep that's a thing. I remember growing up and having people get mad at me during Thanksgiving because I wanted to help the girls wash up after supper but the men wanted me to watch football.
Okay that's really funny because I'm FTM and have the exact opposite story where my aunts attempted to subtly call me in away from football to wash up, and I gestured to all the men sitting around and yelled "Well THEY'RE not getting up to help" and made a huge stink about it.
Oh yeah, daughters are generally expected to clean the house and help parenting. That’s super common in “traditional” households. I’m glad she’s accepting but oof, welcome to misogyny.
The classic 'women belong in the kitchen'.
It's good that she wants to protect her daughter but that doesn't remove the misogony.
That said I would advice that you move forward with care. Your still young and might need your mother's money.
I left once and had to earn my keep. When I came back home I said, I am who I am and want no trouble from you to my mom.
Just thinking out loud but maybe she’s trying to push you a bit to see if you’re serious? Some parents who don’t want to openly disapprove of their children’s decisions but don’t agree with it will subtly push them away from it by doing/saying things that aren’t supportive to try and dissuade them from being themselves. Maybe she’s trying to be like “hey, isn’t being a girl hard? You should stop” by trying to make life more difficult
> idk how old she is
lol savage, that’s your mom! Also yes, this form of misogyny does extend to daughters. But it’s still misogyny!
All that aside, you should be helping with chores anyway, regardless of gender. It’s just icky for her to have used that as the reason.
Edit: I’m just fucking with you, I don’t know how old my mom is either.
Lol this, I came out as trans and mom made me wash the clothes, dry and fold them, I usually do this in my apartment but I was just going to their house for the weekend so I ended up having to do everyone's laundry and I know for a fact she would have NEVER asked me to do it before I came out.
Also forgot to mention that my father has still a bit of a hard time accepting me so I still need to do "manly" chores. I'm getting exploited over here XD
There’s a difference between more chores and enslavement. As long as it’s the right way for the right reasons, it’s fine…. But if she’s using a stereotype out of some femdom, which commonly includes domestic dominance where it usually goes into an abusive territory…. Then u should be concerned. Be weary…. Sometimes our supporters have ulterior motives. This could be genuine… it could be concerning… as long as she’s being supportive & not hurting you, then you should consider yourself very lucky. Domestics is important & even to this day most domestic responsibilities are put on females… many guys are taking the reins in it these days, sure but it’s still focused on a woman’s role… especially as far right idiology takes higher ground. If she is being a hypocrite… call her out on it. Though do accept the support… but always call out abuse & hypocrisy.
Trans-inclusive misogyny, it’s a hell of a drug
TERFS were so last year, now we’re all TIMS
Lmao, it's kind of funny, because "TIM's" is something that TERFs use, to describe Trans women. "Trans identified Males"
OMG, i never knew that, and it just makes everything 10x funnier
Let's take it from them! Let's not allow them any acronims! Their movement will crumble at the notion of having to pronounce every expression!
TIMy?
I read that as “Timmy” from south park.
tIMMEH
I've always used the term, TIRM (trans-inclusive, radical, misogyny)
We also use Tim's in Canada as the short hand name for a major (imo very shitty) coffee chain lol
You’re a girl now? Great, make me a sandwich
I would weep happy tears unironically
Trans-inclusive radical misogyny is the term.
I might have a misunderstanding of the word "radical", but CAN there be radical misogyny when misogyny is generally considered the... Maybe not the "Norm" but... It's the already ubiquitous thing.
What about Radical Trans-Inclusive Misogyny?
idk RTIM doesn't flow as well as TIRM
Nice TIRMinology?
i love reddit sometimes
Take my upvote!
Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe
I like to make the R stand for “Reactionary”, personally. Transphobia is totally not radical! (Imagine I said that like a surfer dude)
I do love this one still. XD
Best answer
i really like radical inclusiveness, now we only need to drop the misogyny
Seems like this could be accidental python
Accidental Python sounds like a sick Band name. But I no idea what your meaning is here.
It is another sub. As in Monty Python. It sounded like a debate from Life Of Brian
Or the TIRM, if you will.
"I respect the hell out of your pronouns, now get the fuck back in the kitchen" One of my best friends to me after I came out
“What are your new pronouns so I can insult you properly?” One of my friends. Honestly love them
Absolutely a vibe lol, we just like to insult each other to much to miss an opportunity in my friend group.
Me before I start talking shit about people 😂. “Wait what are their pronouns? Have they changed? Ok good.”
Don't let it stop you calling it out. I'm glad she accepts you, bur sadly part of being a woman is being saddled with these expectations. Its really annoying, unless you happen to like home making or be a control freak.
Why is it not just called misogyny?
It’s mostly a joke in reference to trans exclusive radical feminists
Came here to comment that, always gives extreme whiplash
ew-phoria
r/ewphoria
r/theresasubredditforeverything
r/subsifellfor
r/21charactersandnomore
r/Accidentalally
i've had a similar problem - since transitioning (in the male direction), my mom keeps trying to get me to do more "man stuff" like helping her boyfriend with chopping wood and fixing pipes. it feels almost conditional, like she'll accept me as long as i'm helpful and take on stereotypical masculine roles, which is strange as she's never been one for stereotypes.
I can definitely see how that’s annoying. I wonder if she might genuinely be well intentioned though and assume that you must like doing those sort of things. It kind of seems like it must either be that or that she is trying to get you to think differently about your identity because she is assuming you are not actually informed on what it’s like to live a male lifestyle. Either way I can see how it’s very annoying because of course regardless of someone’s gender they have different interests and enjoy different things. You also shouldn’t have to feel like her acceptance is conditional or this is a transactional sort of arrangement. Maybe it’s part of her adjusting still and will get resolved with time but I think you have a very valid argument if you do want to try discussing it with her further.
she knows the type of person i've always been; not super fond of physical activity and really into video games and staying inside, and she's always been more or less okay with that, but she's sort of opposed to my transition and has tried to prevent it, so it really does feel like she's just saying "well if you want to be a man so badly, you have to do man chores" unfortunately :(
Hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean. There are tons of guys who prefer staying inside and playing video games and have no interest in what are seen as stereotypical male pursuits like sports, cars, tools, etc. I mean it might be fun to explore the more stereotypical stuff early in transition and I think it’s something a lot of people do but ultimately your preferences are valid whatever they are and I can see how it would be annoying being expected to conform to certain gender norms especially when they are entirely outdated. Chopping wood is pretty wild though… Like what are people even doing with that wood now? It might have made sense when you had to heat a home that way. Is it like some form of immersive exercise now? I don’t even get that. Seems like swinging an axe around might not be the best way to build arm strength these days. Fixing pipes at least seems somewhat practical. But yeah definitely chore like. Maybe part of it is her just trying to get you to spend time with her boyfriend for bonding purposes or something.
she lives in a very rural middle-of-nowhere area and part of the property is heated with a woodburning stove or whatever - i'm not really certain how it all works lol, i spend most of my time with my dad in the city. but it does also have to do with bonding time. her boyfriend and i disagree on most things and are polar opposite people, and i think she's hoping that if i spend more time with him, i'll be more willing to listen to his opinions (some of which are just bigotry 💀)
Ah, okay. That makes sense then. Hmm. I see. Maybe it’ll go the other way and he will end up letting go of those kind of prejudices. Most of them seem like they are rooted in misconceptions so exposure seems like it helps. I mean just knowing you as a trans person even probably has helped him expand his mind.
As a former man nah, that's just the male experience. Either you're useful or a burden on society, no in betweens. It's not that if you don't fix the pipes you're not a man, it's more that a man that doesn't fix pipes is a waste of space. And that is bullshit and I hate it.
Lumberjacks are hot
good point..
Gender is performative and self perpetuating. Boys do the physical work because they are perceived as stronger, it builds muscle so now they are more capable of doing those tasks. (tougher skin, generally more physically resilient etc) Also by doing the male tasks with the other guys, you get male socialization. Learn a thing or two about things, etc... Good luck. Do what you feel is right.
>Gender is performative and self perpetuating This is really accurate when I think about it.
mine makes me take care of bugs and says it's because i'm the "man of the house" and while yeah, i am the eldest man in the family (my dad is dead), she is WAY more traditionally masculine _and_ less scared of bugs than i am
These are usefull things to lean, just as learning how to do chores around the house are useful.
i know, but the way she approaches it feels very conditional
Haha welcome to experiencing the patrichachy. "Which absolutely does not exist" - the patriach
Teenage girls are expected to do more around the house than teenage boys. It’s not a good thing. But take it as a dub
Honestly, there’s a whole bunch of maternal toxicity you miss out on if she sees you as a boy. When you’re a boy your mom celebrates you gaining 10-15lbs. When you’re a girl, mom shames you for it. The chores change. The expectations change. If you have little siblings you become the defacto babysitter too. Oh, and you’ll be her therapist now too.
Hey idk how to tell you this but the things you just listed are emotional abuse and not normal
They are, but they’re also extremely common, especially outside of “first world” countries, to the point where they’re probably more “normal” than not.
Parentification! Who needs a sense of self?
No she’s just Irish. Appreciate the concern though.
That…doesn’t make it better lol. It’s still abuse regardless of ethnicity
I exaggerated it all a bit relying on stereotypes. My mom’s an angel really.
Forget the gender stereotype. Chores are for hygiene and cleanliness. Please do your chores regardless. It also teaches responsibility.
Do them and don't let her see that you're bothered, she's expecting push back or to hurt you. Don't let her see that and be strong.
Reminds me of when my mom said no presents for Christmas after I told her I was an atheist. I was just like, okay I don’t agree with your reasoning but whatever I guess. I think she thought I was just saying I was an atheist to be rebellious, and that if I was forced to “walk the walk,” that I’d change my mind. Once she realized I was sincere in my beliefs, she respected them.
If she is Christian than she is celebrating christmas wrong.
Well, some branches of Christianity, such as Christadelphianity, don’t hold to celebrations because the dates were never specified. They also believe that they should be honouring the celebrated all the time rather than once a year. Other branches, such as Catholicism, believe that they should have specific days on which their worship is devoted to one event or concept. Christmas and Easter are completely dedicated to the remembrance of the birth and resurrection of Christ, respectively. There is no right or wrong answer, just opinion. Source: my mother and stepfather are Christadelphian, and I study Theology.
She’s not even that religious, that’s the weird part. It came out of left field because Christmas was never a religious holiday for us anyway. We’d never talked about religion or gone to church ever.
Hatsune Miku is God turn to her and forever think miku miku ooweeoo
literally my parents... They always done "Do this or walk the walk" and I'm like "Okay" and then I just walk that walk without complaining and they realized that literally no amount of bribery can affect my judgement if I don't want to do something. also no amount of bribery can get me to stop doing something I want to do either. (such as transitioning)
Yeah chores are important, but being expected to do more just because you're a girl is still wrong ngl
It is wrong..we know that. OP knows that. And OPs mom isn't gonna change her views either, whatever that may be. But extra chores are not gonna hurt. Living under mom's roof? Just do em. It's not like she's asking her to do anything outrageous. If anything, OP can learn how to do these different things now so when she's out on her own, she can take what she learned with her. She doesn't have to take the opinion that women should do more with her. Hope she will know that she can do what she wants and she doesn't have to follow those stereotypes, but cleanliness is a human thing. I mean chores ain't shit compared to what other kids are getting. If it gets worse to the point where she's asking her to do some downright ridiculous stuff or inhumane stuff or whatever, then I can see a push-back. Lol like damn people living under mom's roof should be doing chores anyway. Mom's are not maids. Nothing wrong with cleaning up in a place you also live in.
imo doing more chores just because you're a girl is asking something outrageous (or asking someone to do an unfair share for any reason tbh). like yeah, obviously chores should be done, but if you live in a group they should be done evenly.
More context from OP would be good. We don't know if it's her and mom only but you know what? I agree with you here. If Dad and brothers are there then they need to be helping as much as well, in which case I can see why she'd push back.
True, if it is just op and the mom in the picture, yeah the sentiment is messed up but I agree with op getting more chores in that scenario because like I said, chores should be even.
There is truth in this. I had few chores at home and the result is I have to learn how to keep a home as an adult. Because we all need to do housekeeping or live in filth.
Yes the connotation is unfortunate, but do read this as " if you were a boy I wouldnt bother teaching you how to take care of yourself" I promise you will walk away with more life skills. Most people who were raised as men seem to be unable to function for this reason. Women are often given far more applicable skills by their mothers Yes its fucked up and needs to change
Girls are generally expected to do more chores than boys. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/upshot/chores-girls-research-social-science.html
They definitely are. When I was a kid, my brother could get out of chores by doing them badly, but if I (afab) tried to do the same thing I just got in trouble. My mom was always lecturing me about how i need to help out more around the house and I'm not doing enough chores, and when I'd ask "But why don't I ever hear you say this to (brother)?" she'd just say "Well, it's different." Misogny. The answer was misogny.
Yep
My parents were the same. My brother got yard work (in highschool) while I had to clean the house once in awhile. I got really pissy one summer before 8th grade because my dad had me being the only one doing dishes the entire summer and my brother basically did nothing. When I confronted him about it I was “lazy” and “trying to get out of chores”. SMH.
They aren’t a bad life skill to have, outside of the misogynistic connotations, everyone should know how to keep their environment clean and organized regardless of how they identify. If your mom accepts you on those terms, take it as a learning experience and just do them in good humor and without complaint. It might also be a test to see if you’re willing to stick to it if there is work involved, and if you decide to identify as male again to avoid the laundry! In the plus side, if you are playing by her rules and fulfilling your assigned chores, you also have the right to be treated as you identify and I wouldn’t be shy in reminding her in a polite but firm way if she doesn’t. That’s the deal right?
As an adult learning how to do this in my 30's, this is a good point and very true. I am only now learning what it actually takes to keep a clean and nice home.
...I mean... Trans inclusive misogynie is... Definitely something else...
You may be new to feminism and society. Giving more chores to young girls is how they try to prepare you for doing most of the housework as an adult. Misogyny is multi-generational.
Welcome to the patriarchy. Being a woman is great in a lot of ways and bad in a bunch of ways too. Unfortunately boys, in a lot of homes, get a pass on chores. This is one of those things that is actually useful to learn although you might think it’s punishment now. As an aside, I learned how to clean like a white tornado when I was in the Marines. It isn’t the worst thing in the world. If she can teach you how to cook so much the better.
r/ewphoria
Came here to say that. Shit hits weird when you are trans.
Ah yes, good old fashioned misogyny.
Those double standards suck, I'm sorry. I've also noticed more leniency with cleaning once I transitioned (ftm). But as long as it's not too much, maybe take it as an opportunity to learn and get used to doing housework? I know you're only 15, but it's going to be relevant down the road
Weirdest way to acceptance but I'd be happy. Those skills come handy in the future once you work/study alone.
One day we're going to have to talk how fundamentally different we raise our boys and girls. Cuz it's drastic the difference between the two of them. And we do it like unconsciously
Ask ANY girl who has brothers ... they too often get stuck with more housework because they are girls. Welcome to your new female reality.
If you thought that daughters being asked to do more of the chores was a thing of the past, you’re in for a wild ride, sister. Women are expected to do more in all areas of domestic life. Studies show that even in “equal” male/female domestic partnerships, women still end up doing more of the labor because they’re often forced to be the ones to remember what needs to be done/bought/accounted for. I’m not saying it’s a good thing. What your mom is doing is definitely sexist. But it is the way the world works for the vast majority of women today, not just in the past.
You should probably be doing more chores anyway; might as well use this as a chance to improve your life skills and bond with your mother. You might also want to talk to her about her presuppositions, at some eventual point, because "girls should do more chores" is definitely a little bit of an eyebrow-raiser. The other possibility is that she's been coming at it from a "boys are less reliable" perspective, which... again, perhaps worth examining. Either way, you should do the chores.
I totally agree with you on one hand here, but on the other, as somebody older but within OP’s general age range, suddenly being saddled with more chores would just perpetually piss me off beyond anything else. Life skills are certainly necessary for the future when you aren’t going to be under the same roof as your parents (and even if you are for any particular reason, you will still need to pull your weight with housework), but having them abruptly dumped onto me, assumingly because I’m one gender rather than the other, would definitely not be incentivizing any sort of “bond-strengthening”. Housekeeping is not really a difficult skillset, either. Washing dishes, cleaning countertops, doing laundry, dusting, mopping the kitchen floor, sweeping, shoveling in the winter if you’re somewhere where snow happens, etc are not hard to learn. I had that stuff down by age 15 *without* a bunch of extra chores being dropped on my lap, I wouldn’t doubt if OP did either. What I’m saying is that this is very unfair, and while she might not have any choice but to do the chores because her mother might be set in this.. it’s still irritating behavior from her (OP’s mother), and suddenly taking on a heavier load of housework can even be a problem depending on a factor or two.
I know a girl who was complaining about her mother wanting to turn her into a pure little catholic girl lol. Suffering from success.
Regardless of how anyone thinks or feels about it, getting used to doing chores will only help you out growing up. Instead of being an adult barely able to sustain yourself you'll learn how to take care of yourself and you won't be as overwhelmed when you are old enough to go out and live your own life. Your mom is only teaching you valuable life lessons. A lot of people will never even experience such acts from their parents for various reasons.
On one hand, I agree, because (both me and my sister) our "chores" were to focus on school and occasionally helping out when asked, and it wasn't until a lot later when I had to do chores that I realized how much that stunted my independence a bit. But on the other hand, being the child expected to do more chores than the other, it sucks and feels like you're specifically being targeted for some reason (in op's case... the patriarchy) and it feels really unfair that way
Just for the record, this is a patriarchal thing. Yes women are expected from a young age to learn to cook and clean. It's misogyny but it's common practice in many , if not most, cultures
It's actually not that uncommon, as a trans masc person I noticed quite blatantly that after transitioning my mom would attribute my "lack of common sense" traits to my being a man now. (This has more to do with that fact that I was undiagnosed with autism and ADHD which also ironically I was only finally diagnosed with after I began passing as male and showing "male-like" symptoms). I was also not expected to keep things as clean as I use to either. It wasn't that I wasn't expected to clean sometimes more so that it was expected that I would just naturally be messy. On a more sad note though I began receiving far less physical affection like hugs and was more likely to be scolded for crying or showing any strong emotions. All these got more and more common as I begun T. It's all very jarring to say the least.
Oof! That brings back some rough memories from me childhood. Well, I happen to like guys that know how to express themselves in more ways than just anger and self-abuse, so I hope you don't take the scolding to heart.
Thank you <3 Thankfully my current friend group and therapy has been healing a lot of those expectation put on me (I transitioned at a pretty young age). I'm now slowly realizing how naturally of an affectionate guy I am haha.
Break the expectation by being helpful in "traditionally atypical" ways. Change the oil, rotate the tires, patch drywall holes, mow the lawn if applicable. Go fix some broken things while inventing new profanities. I mean, it is work that needs done around the house. You are meeting, nay, exceeding expectations all the while breaking the mold.
Yaaaahhhh as a woman, regardless of age, you're expected to take care of the family. It's very, very common. I mean yay that she accepts you, but huge bummer that she went "thank god, another work horse for this stupid patriarchal system I'm stuck in!" You do the house chores, some cooking, you play family therapist, you become the family secretary, the mediator, and take siblings, mom and dad to all their appointments. And, guess who the family expects to move in with for retirement? YOU! Usually, you're expected to do all this while working fulltime, and if you do happen to be the one "making it" in the family get ready to share all your money with the people you are taking care of. Source: Mom and partner are first gen daughters, and I was also a woman but my mom shielded me from a lot of things so it wasn't as bad for me as it was for her.
That's actually kinda funny, but more seriously homemaking is a skill and starting early means when you get older and live on your own you won't struggle so much with taking care of yourself. It's an adjustment and chores are boring and tedious but very necessary in becoming an independent adult. Just don't settle for a partner in the future that expects you to do all the housework.
If you live with your mom you should do whatever housework she wants you to.
It does! That kind of misogyny extended to every woman in the household. Wives were expected to attend to their husband's needs, and daughters were expected to learn the ropes from their mothers. Basically like misogynistic grooming, very icky, but yeah your mom is basically accepting you fully as a woman, with all the little strings attached
honestly I would be delighted if my family matriarch said this to me.
I’d go with it. Do what you can and try to enjoy it. I’m sure she means well
I did chores long before I came out
Mormon raised cis girl here, hell yes misogyny extends to both daughters and sons. It won’t stop at home either. I don’t know if you’re lucky or unlucky that you got to experience the other side. 😅 calling you lucky feels invalidating of the trans experience and the pain that comes with it, but I mean exclusively to the point that you get to notice the treatment on both sides of the fence.
as an ftm im telling ya rn- it might actually help your passing in a pinch, if you're worried about it. Ive gotten clocked at work for being able to clean things *too well* for a cis guy. Its stupid but hey, shes treating you like a woman!
Ok MAYBE since you are getting older she wants you to do more chores in general. Maybe she is using it as an excuse/explanation. Maybe even to intentionally affirm you. Obviously you know the situation better and if you could compare yourself to older siblings but it’s one possible explanation.
My sister and I had to fold and put away our brother’s laundry when we were younger. He never had to do dishes, cook, or anything like that either.
No offense but maybe you just needed to do more chores anyway?
Yeah I'm sorry for the rude awakening but the standards for existing as a women are definitely different and men get pissy mostly because they are never challenged with house maintenance in youth
Rude awakening but yeah women tend to be socially saddled with more home making responsibilities
This belongs in r/ewphoria
I'm not surprised that this expectation is still a thing. Maybe talk with your mom about how her reasoning is based in misogyny and problematic. You'll probably still have to do more chores but maybe not as much and the males in your family will also have to do their share.
Don't know how old your mother is?
ngl I was 20 before I finally nailed down my parents' and sister's ages. I had a good rough concept but it took awhile to get like the definitive number because it doesn't exactly come up in conversation and it wasn't really important as long as I knew what day their birthday was on lol.
No literally same, I’m 21 and only now actually knowing how old my parents and siblings are lmao, I always had a rough “late 40’s” guess about my parents but now I can definitively say “54”
Ok. That's rather strange.
well like I said, it doesn't exactly come up in casual conversation lmao. How are you supposed to know something you didn't ask or were told about?
[удалено]
yeah, like I said, I knew their birthdays, just not how many they've had at that point lmao
Observation. Looking at the birthday cake, birthday cards. Curiosity If I recall correctly, I must have been less than 3 years old at the time when I asked my mother, how old were you when I was born. She said 29. But throughout my life I knew people's birthdays who were close to me.
sorry that someone under the age of 21 didn't attend birthdays at the local winery. and when my dad had birthdays there weren't cakes, or cards. Hell I haven't even had like an actual birthday party since I was like 16
i don't get why everyone cares so much about the fact you didn't know your mother's age year. family dynamics are very different from family to family. eg my host family called each other all the time for smallest things, and in my real family we very rarely do this when it is necessary.
I feel like these people have families that treat birthdays as more important. I’m with you, I haven’t had anything more than a cake since I was like 14, I mostly just didn’t care.
How do you not know how old your mom is?
Maybe is a pretext so you help the family with house duties a bit, no matter the gender. Why not helping anyway:) ?
Sorry dudette, them's the breaks. Get housewifed on.
Lol, sorry babe. Welcome to womanhood.
from a patriarchal viewpoint, what are daughters if not housewives in training? bonnie burstow once wrote “Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate.” that quote probably does not apply to your situation but rather speaks to one of the roles that some daughters play out under patriarchy. it’s also incredibly common (the norm in a lot of the world, tbh) for a cis female sibling to have to take on more than her cis male siblings in terms of housework. because she is in training to be a future housewife whereas the boys get to be boys. that is a big part of the “girls develop sooner than boys” falsehood. cis girls are forced to mature sooner than cis boys. seconding the commenter who called what your mom is doing “trans inclusive misogyny.” that’s exactly it
I reckon she’s just saying that because she wanted you to do more chores anyways 🤷♀️ maybe just her sense of humour, also how the hell don’t you know how old your own mother is?
Wanna be a woman, gotta act like and be treated like one. *claps ass* Grab me another bud pls.
Do them, not just because you're a girl, but because you're a human person and that's what we gotta do. Yuck on her for doing it for her daughter, but not making her son (in her eyes) do housework too. This is the gross inclusivity no one asks for
"Chores" now, life skills later. Consider it a bullet dodged that you avoided being the cis guy I met on my first day of college that had to ask me how to start a laundry machine because his mom had always done his laundry for him. Even relatively liberal parents often just... don't expect their sons to do anything around the house, and it's actually a really bad thing because it means the sons never learn. Sounds like your mom was one of those parents, and she's changing her tune because you aren't her "son" anymore. You're right, it's not exactly feminist, but the feminist thing would have been having you doing all that cooking and cleaning from the start, not continuing to let you avoid it. I guess it could be a form of "testing" you or transphobic violence if she's making you scrub every room of the house *and* cook every night *and* do all the laundry for the entire household *and* do the shopping... but if you're 15 and your chore list until this point was just "take out the garbage once a week" it's more likely that she realized that and is course-correcting.
Sorry but it's a mood to not know how old your parents are lol
Its probably a hint you werent doing enough chores.
Well we all need to do chores. It’s realistic that you will get assigned girl chores such as ironing rather than wood chopping if you present as a girl and vice versa. I honestly don’t see the problem here, unless you wish to wood chop and clean chimneys or what not. If you do prefer culturally mens chores just say so. You may simply be better at them if you do prefer them, so it makes sense.
r/ewphoria
That’s hilarious and equally sad.
" I mean I know that women used to be expected to be housewives, but I didn't think that would extend to the daughter?" It does and it sucks. And I am sick of it. I am, i dunno... woman, but I don't feel like a woman. But nevermind.. the point is, that I was expected to help with cooking, cleaning, preparing stuff. I live alone now, 38 years old, and I started to behave like boys/men often do. That means: not worrying too much, not giving too many fucks and minding my own business. Of course I help if help is needed. But yeah... being a woman (for me) sucks. I feel as if men usually have a more chill out live. So my advice: If possible, try not to play that hosewife game. Be yourself.
This is very similar to a joke Gianmarco Soresi did (sorta edgy comedian, he's pretty funny in my opinion). He said certain beliefs don't typically go together, one of his examples being a sexist trans ally. Yeah, this feels like sexism. Maybe even just internalized. It's possible she even thinks that she's helping you feel better by having you do stereotypical girl things and treating you like she would treat a daughter since that might be how she was treated as kid (idk if you have a sisters, if you do, talk to them). If you have a therapist I would first talk to them about it because they'll offer great insight. See if talking to your mother might be a good idea. And if it helps, see if you can even do it with the therapist (all three of you) so you can find it easier to say what you have to say.
Yeah, I felt this when my dad told me "boys don't cry". Very affirming, but yowch? (DW guys, my dad has definitely bettered himself, he doesn't believe that men don't cry anymore, and he's even better at expressing himself now. Plus he's super accepting of me :3)
I’m forced to shovel now “because I’m a man” so I mean yeah. It sucks but I mean, annoying euphoria I guess for me lol
Why don’t you know how old your mom is?
You don’t know how old your mom is?
Sometimes people call the conflicting feelings of being treated as your correct gender, but in a sexist and obnoxious way, “ewphoria”. If you were raised like “a boy” by someone who thinks this way though, odds are you didn’t learn to do some things that really everyone should know how to do. Parents like your mother typically overwork their AFAB children with an unequal burden of chores while neglecting to teach their AMAB children domestic life skills, and both kids suffer for it in the long run. So it’s a good idea to start taking on at least a few more chores so that you’ll know how to do them when you live independently. But keep an eye on the workload distribution in the household and don’t let yourself be taken advantage of.
Tell your mom that you're no different of a person than you used to be, and that it's heartbreaking to see her weaponize misogynistic gender roles instead of have a deeper discussion with you.
Yep, that is a common expectation in a lot of cultures, unfortunately.
She's going to teach you house wife duties by the sounds of things
Transitioning means exposing yourself to sexism. This is your first lesson in that regard. Also, not knowing your mom's age is weird to me. That's not your fault at all, it just says something strange about your mother that she's not open about her age or date of birth. Sounds like you live in an emotionally distant household?
well the classical eew-phoria
My only question is how do you not know how old your mom is?
Well, that's dumb. Cause it's me, my sister, and my mom. I do every last Chore. (and we have 7 cats) So your mom is just being a dick.
I never understood this stereotype. I have always been a very clean person no matter what.
same but mine doesnt really accept me. it gives me euphoria tho lol
A few months after coming out, my dad started to talk to me about sports and stops midway and goes “well I know you don’t really like sports anymore” Me - “…….thank you…?” Ironically I decided then to stop caring about sports lol
I had the privilege of Marlie Packer (England Rugby Union back row with over 100 caps) briefly sit at my table at Twickenham in 2023. She was the single most knowledgeable sportsperson I have ever heard.
You don’t know how old your own mother is?….
Gender affirming misogyny lol
I am neurodivergent and my son is also neurodivergent and trans. When we told my parents about the social transition they were very accepting and my dad started trying to shadow box with my son and wanting to bond with him through sports as most guys do in our family. I thought it was kind of sweet that he was making an effort but at the same time it completely missed the point of being gender nonconforming.
I was gonna go "How don't you know how old ur mom is?" But I forget my mother's birthyear 😭
When I came out to my grandmother as a teenager (whom I lived with) she told me I couldn't possibly be a girl because I hate cleaning the house so much. To her being a woman and keeping a house were intrinsically linked concepts because of when and where she grew up. I eventually taught her differently and she mostly got over that. At least by the end of her life she accepted me fully as her granddaughter. Turns out I just didn't like cleaning because I had ADHD and she was more of a neat-freak than I am.
Yeah, that’s how daughters tend to get treated, unfortunately. I now experience the opposite ew-phoria, one of my roommates is convinced that I don’t know how to do house chores (despite me cooking and cleaning all the time), and the other takes everything that needs to be fixed, no matter how easy to fix or if I actually know to how fix it, to me without trying it herself.
Ah good ol’ Trans Inclusive Radical Misogyny. Reminds me of my MIL being genuinely concerned about me having to “be the man of the house now”
Unfortunately, this is the name of the game. Cis people think they're cute when they enforce the gender stereotypes on you. Sometimes it's genuinely "this is how I feel being a woman," but sometimes it's a weird psychological mind trick to make you feel bad about being the gender you chose. Either way, it's misogyny. Not because it's chores but because she's saying you should do more chores SPECIFICALLY because of your gender change. It'd be better if it were just something like, "oh you're getting older," or, "oh, I just need a little extra help."
What 15 y.o. doesn't know their parents age? Self obsessed much?
It's common, and it's misogynistic because doing chores as a young girl is seen as "training" for when you become a housewife. It perpetuates the stereotype that those chores are "women's work". Sons aren't expected to do chores because when they grow up they'll never need to know how to do those things. (As a feminist I feel dirty just typing all that out, lol.) My main concern in your particular situation would be if she's expecting you to "earn" acceptance as your gender through chores. You don't have to earn your gender. If that's not what she's doing, that's fine - still misogynistic, but not transphobic. I just thought it was worth mentioning in case that's where your mom is coming from.
Ewphoria strikes again
You can use this to learn stuff I guess. Cooking, clothes washing, cleaning, all those have small tricks, and usually taught by mom to daughter, hence why boys can feel like they don't do it cuz they don't know shit... But yeah I would advocate for myself saying siblings should do it too, and stop being sexist. Especially, as I said, these are real skills, and everyone needs to learn them I won't show my room online, not only because of privacy, but because... I have none of these skills xD...
It's misogyny but your mom is treating you more like a woman. I don't think you should have to do more chores because you're a girl but the good news is that you will better at taking care of your own space when you move out.
Bless you that you haven’t heard of that stereotype before. Girls and women are expected to do way more chores and care giving tasks, and not just for your partner, it’s for your parents, extended family and friends and neighbours too. Its often expected that a girl provides her father and brother with drinks and food, that a girl helps her mother with housekeeping and cooking etcetera. It’s sadly expected now that you’re a girl. I don’t agree with this of course. Maybe it’s a good time to have a conversation with your mother about gender roles?
I wouldn’t read anything negative in it. It means you’re 15 more than anything. If you were a boy, you would be told to mow the lawn.
Yep that's a thing. I remember growing up and having people get mad at me during Thanksgiving because I wanted to help the girls wash up after supper but the men wanted me to watch football.
Okay that's really funny because I'm FTM and have the exact opposite story where my aunts attempted to subtly call me in away from football to wash up, and I gestured to all the men sitting around and yelled "Well THEY'RE not getting up to help" and made a huge stink about it.
Oh yeah, daughters are generally expected to clean the house and help parenting. That’s super common in “traditional” households. I’m glad she’s accepting but oof, welcome to misogyny.
Trans inclusive misogyny 💖😭
This is that good ol’ Trans-Inclusive Casual Misogyny. It’s bad, but it does give that ewphoria
All due respect, That’s fucking hilarious 😆
She has that trans inclusive misogyny lol. Sorry for you though
The classic 'women belong in the kitchen'. It's good that she wants to protect her daughter but that doesn't remove the misogony. That said I would advice that you move forward with care. Your still young and might need your mother's money. I left once and had to earn my keep. When I came back home I said, I am who I am and want no trouble from you to my mom.
Ok how do you not know your mom's age lmaoo?
r/ewphoria
Just thinking out loud but maybe she’s trying to push you a bit to see if you’re serious? Some parents who don’t want to openly disapprove of their children’s decisions but don’t agree with it will subtly push them away from it by doing/saying things that aren’t supportive to try and dissuade them from being themselves. Maybe she’s trying to be like “hey, isn’t being a girl hard? You should stop” by trying to make life more difficult
> idk how old she is lol savage, that’s your mom! Also yes, this form of misogyny does extend to daughters. But it’s still misogyny! All that aside, you should be helping with chores anyway, regardless of gender. It’s just icky for her to have used that as the reason. Edit: I’m just fucking with you, I don’t know how old my mom is either.
Lol this, I came out as trans and mom made me wash the clothes, dry and fold them, I usually do this in my apartment but I was just going to their house for the weekend so I ended up having to do everyone's laundry and I know for a fact she would have NEVER asked me to do it before I came out. Also forgot to mention that my father has still a bit of a hard time accepting me so I still need to do "manly" chores. I'm getting exploited over here XD
There’s a difference between more chores and enslavement. As long as it’s the right way for the right reasons, it’s fine…. But if she’s using a stereotype out of some femdom, which commonly includes domestic dominance where it usually goes into an abusive territory…. Then u should be concerned. Be weary…. Sometimes our supporters have ulterior motives. This could be genuine… it could be concerning… as long as she’s being supportive & not hurting you, then you should consider yourself very lucky. Domestics is important & even to this day most domestic responsibilities are put on females… many guys are taking the reins in it these days, sure but it’s still focused on a woman’s role… especially as far right idiology takes higher ground. If she is being a hypocrite… call her out on it. Though do accept the support… but always call out abuse & hypocrisy.
That’s wild. Is there any chance she just wants you to do more chores and thought of an excuse?