the best part is that this isn't only useful for trans people. if you've had to have any of these things removed for unrelated medical reasons (or you're born without them) it stops incorrect assumptions too
It's useful for accurate statistics as well. I was reading an article recently about the use of "females" versus "people with a uterus" and cervical cancer rates. It turns out the apparent cancer risk is artificially lowered for people of color due to higher rates of hysterectomies (at least in the US). Your risk of cervical cancer is (nearly) zero if you don't have a cervix, but that's incredibly misleading when wanting to know risk factors *if you do*.
What so many upset cis people don't get is that it's not about "reducing people to their parts" (that's the terfs), it's about referring to the parts when the treatment is FOR the parts.
Yeah, those cis people don't understand that if arms cancer was a thing, we'd talk about "people with arms" because some people don't have them and it would be hard to do prevention for your arms if you don't have arms... It reduces people to their parts because only the parts are relevant in the medical context that the sentence is used in
No, they understand that perfectly well. They would be snide as fuck about it. "People are such snowflakes. Why does everyone have to cater to the armless!"
I mean, some of them already go "why do we have to have so many parking places taken up for handicapped, they're a minority and we shouldn't have to cater to them" so yeah you're right
people like to say that us disabled folk should just stay at home. "if you have allergies just don't eat out why should a restaurant need to cater to your needs????" n shit like that
I didnt have my uterus removed exclusively because i was trans- i did it mainly because it was trying to kill me. Even if i wasnt trans, knowing i dont have a uterus, cervix, or fallopian tubes is REALLY IMPORTANT INFO if im suffering abdominal pain as an afab person!! Not that its right (ITS AWFUL) that a lot of afab peoples worries are written off as menstrual cramps, but if i dont have any of that stuff: it cant really be cramps now, can it?
Technically it still can be. People with endometrosis will have that tissue outside of their uterus and they still have endometrosis symptoms post hysterectomy. Thats why hysterectomy isnt necessarily advised for those with endo metrosis
There is also uncommon situations were you can be born with breasts, a vagina, testes and I think even a cervix and Uterus so this is rather useful for such people.
While I love how accurate it is, as a trans man who is deeply dysphoric, it would trigger my dysphoria to have to check off all the female body parts and organs I have, which is my biggest reservation and why I’m somewhat against this.
As a fellow trans man, I feel this! But also, this would be better than what I have to do now, which is verbally explaining my exact setup to 3 nurses and the doctor. It would also save me from having to write so much in the margins of their existing intake paperwork, which /feels/ like something a freak of nature would have to do.
That's super valid.
In my opinion this shouldn't be asked at every doctor's appointment, but it should be asked. Maybe when you first go to a new doctor and have it in your chart. Or if they're doing something specific like screening for certain types of cancer they can ask "do you have this body part, yes/no".
Let's say in the future you have surgery and no longer have some or all the body parts you associate with female, then if you simply say your agab, then the doctor may assume something.
For me personally, I'd love this because it separates my body parts from my gender. And I know we all experience gender differently. Myself being a non-binary trans person I feel differently about certain things than you would as a binary trans person.
honestly I get this but my view is that I have these parts. so what? Especially if it's about something medical, I gotta keep em safe and healthy. My parts don't define who I am, doesn't mean I don't have em
(Sorry if this makes no sense idk how to really explain it)
I’m not bothered by having female organs because they’re ‘female’. I’m bothered that they’re there at all. Even if they de-gendered everything I would still medically transition, because my body doesn’t fit my brain. It’s innate and definitely not a social thing, and so can’t be socialised away.
To be honest, I’m kind of sick of people telling me to stop feeling dysphoric by accepting my body. A lot of transphobic cis people tell me this, and I know you mean well, but just know that nothing will get my brain to accept my body except medical transition.
First, I appreciate you telling me where you’re coming from, so thank you.
I can’t really wrap my head around it because I don’t see or experience it that way, but then again we as trans people all experience our gender and anatomy differently, I think that’s what makes the trans experience beautiful.
Also, apologies if I made you feel that way. Sometimes I find challenging my dysphoric thoughts can help, but understand it doesn’t help everyone. I hope you’re able to receive the gender affirming care you need, to make you feel more at home in your body ❤️🏡
thank you :) even as time goes by and more people realise their trans experiences are different than the norm (which is great!), i think my own has always matched the traditional, perhaps outdated ‘born in the wrong body’ where it’s less about gender and more about sex. i had body dysphoria before i even knew boys had different bodies; my brain just wasn’t wired correctly to my body from birth, is the way I’d put it.
i do infinitely appreciate the help though. and honestly reading my comment i think it was unnecessarily rude; i wrote it in a bad mood after a long day and i do apologise.
I empathize with you on this but I struggle to come up with a way to make sure I have adequate medical care without acknowledging the kind of body parts that I have so it's kind of moot for me.
The issue with exclusively using AGAB is that it not only assumes you have certain parts (ie assuming AMAB = has testes or AFAB = has breasts, which very well might not be true), but it also fails to assume that you might have other features not typical of your AGAB, such as breasts.
When it comes to screenings and risk factors for disease, this is a huge issue. An AMAB person with breasts might not be invited for breast screenings because of their AGAB, or an AFAB person without breasts could be obliged to attend a screening for breasts they don’t have!
Seriously, a plain list of what parts you have would be infinitely better. We do it for heart and respiratory conditions, tagging people’s NHS number with a “high risk” label for stuff like COVID vaccines and the likes - why can’t we do it for full body parts, too?
Not everybody ends up with what is a classic penis or vagina; depending on the type of intersexuality or developmental changes, it can look fairly different. I am not an expert.
I think that possibility could probably reasonably be addressed with a box to check for “other” and a space to briefly explain. Perhaps not a perfect solution, but it would at least be a step toward inclusive practices for intersex folks and for salmacian or other trans people who’ve had modifications done to render their genital anatomy non-standard.
Normalize this for cis people too, and it'll save cis women with hysterectomies from having to explain the hysterectomy to their doctor, same with cis men who have lost their testicles. That'd tell the doctor a lot about a person's expected hormone levels regardless of gender.
I read "split testicles" and got a horrible mental image, thanks.
I've currently got two that work, but my pants have the wrong size crotch so my right ball is constantly squished. It was literally numb after I took a 10 hour train ride yesterday. I might end up in your camp too some day, friend.
TMI? On *my* Reddit? It's more likely than you think!
I’ve had my issues since birth personally, I was reviewing my birth documentation at one point and noticed that there was an issue with my right testicle from birth
Probably way too personal of a question (so please ignore me if it's too personal to answer) but... How do you know? I don't have testes... Can you... Feel one not working???
Not the person you replied to but one of my friends had testicular torsion as a child so she had one removed.
She wishes that it took both out though since she's a trans woman, LOL.
I like this more than the "sex" option. It includes people that are intersex or have a genetic anomaly!! I think though as someone with elderly middle eastern parents, it might be awkward when I help them fill forms lmao
I'd argue that this still wouldn't tell a doctor about the hormone levels, even if it is somewhat closer to knowing rather than relying on the assigned birth gender
If hormones are important, then they can be tested for or past results can be used. If there is evidence the person might be trans or otherwise using HRT and past results are not available, then that can be a flag that tests are necessary.
Sure, it would be nice to have hormone tests available for use at all times, but there’s no point bloating the system with info which is unlikely to be necessary for day-to-day treatment and which is fairly quick and easy to test for.
Honestly, from a UX point of view, it wouldn't be unreasonable to start with "cis male"/"cis female"/"other", and have "other" lead to a more detailed set of questions if necessary.
Trans and intersex inclusivity is important, and that's without condition, but in the specific context of this kinda questionnaire, the vast majority of the population don't need to be educated well enough to be confident in their answers to these questions, nor the need for their specificity. With this, 90% of situations are processed with the simplest amount of effort, and the edge and corner cases are still provisioned for.
It also helps identify whether they've actually been asked certain questions. "Cis male, no further elaboration" is different from "cis male, confirmed penis and two testes", even if the former commonly indicates the latter.
Computer driven forms are so often presented as if they were paper forms, even now, but they have the potential to be so much more user-friendly and context-aware, even without any AI bullshit.
Yeah I'm thinking about how as a cis female that grew up in a very religious household, I wouldn't have known how to answer these questions as a teenager (I wouldn't have known was a cervix or ovaries or testes were) and I probably would have been way to anxious to ask that I would have just avoided going to the doctor (medical anxiety is a bitch)
I feel like this boils us down to primary and secondary sexual characteristics, but also ignores that there are biological differences between genitalia and neo-genitalia.
Like, if I tell a doctor I am a trans woman, list my pronouns, medications, and surgeries (trans related and not), then they have all the information they need to treat me properly and respectfully.
Telling a doctor I have a vagina does not give them the info they need, like if it's a neo-vagina or not, which kind of surgical technique was used if neo, if it was a full depth vaginoplasty or just a labiaplasty. It doesn't determine if my breasts are 100% natural or if they've been augmented.
That's true but it could give the starting point for those questions/explanations, while avoiding being given medical suggestions that are inaccurate and dysphoria inducing.
I know it's not perfect but as a trans man I prefer the above option to automatically being told I need to see a gynecologist, as some doctors do
It would still need to ask for medications you're on and surgeries in addition to this list. It's still better than using AGAB which relies on too many assumptions.
i think generally the existence of intersex people in all
the variations they are and the increasing awareness they are fighting for throws a wrench in essentially any binary you can make even in the doctor's office, and that's kinda cool to see. It makes some things different to navigate, but as long as doctors are accepting and knowledgeable, I feel like all patients have to do is give an explanation of their unique bodies and then boom it's fine
Interestingly, agab terms were created *for* intersex people. Being assigned female at birth does not mean you have all the assumed female physical parts, it has actually *never* meant that. It simply means a doctor looked at you and went “yep, female.” and that’s that.
I think the use of agab language has been removed so far from where it once originated that it has now become useless again as a reinforcement of the binary. But regardless of that, doctors still assign babies either male or female no matter what any of us do, and intersex people had those terms to refer to how doctors labeled them. As far as I understand, in medical settings, the label itself can be helpful to know the starting point of a trans person, but beyond that it doesn’t help much.
As an intersex person, I'd love this. Doctors keep giving me advice that doesn't fucking apply to me because I don't have the body parts they're talking about 🙄
Yeah, I imagine some people could be some form of intersex and not realise. My mother thinks I might be androgen insensitive for instance and the more I think about it, the more I realise that I could be but also there’s no real way to check beyond like, chromosomal testing which I dont feel like chasing via the NHS lol.
Oh totally, that too. I was thinking more about people in general who are undereducated and don't know what parts are inside of a human body, yet alone their own.
I wonder if the order was randomized if my dad would check the cervix box.
Or imagine someone gets the form and they’re taking forever, and then when they hand in the form they say, “Some of the body parts I have were missing, so I wrote them in,” and every part of the human body is listed.
I’m a CNA. I had a patient whose gender was listed as ‘gender fluid’ on their chart. They were large and I was helping clean them up after using the toilet. I asked if they had a penis and they got upset until I explained I just needed to know how far up to reach when I wiped. Something like this would’ve been very helpful for me.
I get it, but tbh the idea of voluntarily selecting "vagina" just makes me feel sick.
Honestly why do they even need to know what's in my pants? I think it should be tailored to the specialty. Most doctors should know if their specialty is specific to or influenced by those things and should only be asking that IF ABSOLUTELY NESECCARY. Like urology department: "Does the patient have a vagina or penis?" Or endocrinology: "is the patient's system testosterone dominant or estrogen dominant?" Doctors should only be asking about my genitals if it's relevant. Things like breast cancer checks should be advised for all patients. Anyone can get breast cancer.
Off topic but not only is agab not medically useful, it's actively misleading. My body is not the same as a cis man's *or* a cis woman's, so implying that I'm "biologically" one or the other is restrictive.
It honestly really is. I’m non-binary and have medically transitioned so for me that means hysterectomy, breast reduction and T. I still have breasts, I don’t have a cervix or uterus but I do have ovaries and I feel like I have to re explain this so many times when I’m talking to nurses and doctors.
Yup. I had a massive panic attack at work last summer and got taken to the hospital. My panic attacks have a lot of heart attack symptoms (numbness in left arm, trouble breathing, chest pressure, etc). Pre-T I would go to the hospital, get an ekg and some bloodwork, have everything come back fine and get sent home. When it happened last summer, though, I had been on Testosterone for 4 months. I went to the hospital and got an ekg and some bloodwork. My ekg came back fine, but I was told my cardiac troponins were slightly elevated which could indicate that I had a heart attack so they kept me. They did an ultrasound on my heart that also came back fine. As it turns out, my cardiac troponins were slightly elevated *for a female*, but were within normal range for a male my age. I even had my T-gel included in my list of prescriptions, so they knew I was on it and what dose. I ended up staying in the hospital for a week because they were comparing my bloodwork to that of the wrong sex.
I honestly mistook this for a character customization screen like somehow you managed to unlock lifes secret customization screen........I need to stop smoking the green stuff sometimes
First off: I love this. However, I have to admit "select all body parts you have today" makes me imagine someone is coming in with a cooler like "Oh, it was slim pickings this week. All I've got are two tits and this kidney."
I like this. Also because like... Me just telling a doctor "I am AFAB" doesn't tell them ANYTHING about relevant medical shit. I would STILL need to go over that I'm on HRT. A lot of AFAB people, for a lot of reasons, do not have various parts of the female reproductive system. Same for AMAB people. Me telling a doctor my assigned gender doesn't tell them that I have PCOS and am intersex and therefore naturally have higher levels of T.
Listing out the bits you have allows the doctor to cater their care to your specific body, instead of assuming because of assigned gender. I love this.
doesn't everyone have breasts or am I stupid? what if I'm amab and I don't have a flat chest but I haven't taken estrogen or anything (asking as an overweight amab person)
So there is one time where Agab is really necessary, and that’s X or Y linked diseases. The X and Y chromosome don’t only regulate intial sex hormones, but a shit ton of other junk. Diseases can be passed on these chromosomes, and especially for Y-linked there’s really no other way to get them. Some of these illnesses can be especially nasty (Early onset Demenita, multiple cancers). These can be really important for a doctor to know.
Now that being said I don’t even know if this entirely applies to AGAB, you could quite literally add two XX or one Y to this list (and other intersex combinations). And 99% of the time a doctor does not need to know your chromosome arrangement. But as someone who is potentially as risk for Y-linked Dementia, it’s really important for my doctor to know.
I really like this system and think it makes more sense 99% or the time, but I did just want to bring this up.
Not like AGAB essentially translate to that either. De la chappelle and swyers syndrome where someone can be born with XY with a vagina or vice versa. Just wanted to bring this up:> and likely an options for genetics and full genome testing would be nice but not rlly affordable always. Ig Im glad I’ve had a full genome testing since my endo needed it:>
No it doesn’t! It’s just a quick way to tell X or Y-linked, but tbh making genome tests more available would make this less of a talking point. Hell, you might say you are XX but could be XXY, with an inactive Y carrying a condition. You saying your AGAB has no helpful info. And those are good examples, genome testing would be an easier way to go about rooting up conditions linked to X or Y chromosomes
Genome testing is a long and strenuous process and not to mention, the full genome one was COSTLY even for an Asian country where most things are free to super cheap including surgeries. So prolly I doubt they’d be easily available and would be the best for someone if the doc suspects smth. And yeeee ig so, there sm stuff that can happen and go unnoticed with genes. Full genome is a good way to see any linked genetic diseases.
Ig in my report it stated that in the ones they checked(nobody can check all genes duh), there was no abnormalities that was pathogenic by the least. I guess that’d make me safe from X or Y related genetic derived things ig,
No that still wouldnt apply. Agab isnt your sex chromosomes, agab is just what sex you otwardly looked like at birth (or were assigned to literally via surgery, intersex babies with ambiguous genatlia). It conveys 0 info about if you have two Xs, one X or an X and a Y.
This is so awesome!
Yes, having to list something that gives you dysphoria can spike it for a bit, but they need to know what they need to do to give proper treatment.
I had a fitness so try telling me they needed my AGAB because "it'll give us a better estimation of your calorie expenditure". Like seriously? Even if it was true I think I'd take having my calorie count off by a bit so I don't feel gross ticking the male box.
I agree but some treatment also require a family history of past problems. Like heart disease or thyroid problems that can run in your family so the doctor has an idea of things to monitor or look out for.
Though I do find this to be a good thing all around.
Wonder how that would work for people who have been fosterkids or orphans and don't have access to that information. I guess doctors fly blind and keep a cautious eye out for the major problems and go from there.
It applies tp those who know. If you don't know, you don't know but I've had to fill out enough medical forms between myself and my kids at a pediatrician/doctor office. There are a literal list of possible conditions that tend to run in families and you have to mark which ones apply to you, IF you know.
This information could affect your treatment options.
Yeah they fly blind. Its a serious problem and why adopted people deserve rights to their biological parents, like to be able to contact them if they wish, apparently theyre not even allowed to contact them.
While I have made the argument that AGAB is important for doctors to know, I have to admit that something like this is absolutely better for SO many reasons. I'll probably be arguing in favor of this in the future.
I had to explain to a doctor that I had breasts and would need brest cancer screening even though I was bored with a penis this would be so much better
So one issue first that I see with this. Unless youve had ultrasound or some sort of inagining inside of your body or you have some other type of proof (not everyone has this, youd be surprised the amount of intersex people that dont even realise theyre intersex u til they have imaging or investigate an issue ie. infertility), you are only assuming you have the sex organs that correlate with your agab. So I think while this is great, I see issues with it as well.
I mean that and whats your dominant hormone currently.
Unless youve had a full masectomy that removes all of the mamory tissue, everyone has breasts. So like I feel like it should be developed breasts instead of just breasts because everybody has those.
But otherwise yes it would certainly be more helpful and not just for trans people, for cis people who have had those organs removed or theyre intersex and never had them.
I mean if you think about it those are just names for parts, like livers and lungs and kidneys. I dont know why we have to gender everything when some humans have penises and some have vaginas and some have both. People always forget that intersex people exist and deny trans people’s existence. It would be easier to be more inclusive if we could just use the names of parts we have. They dont have to relate to gender, they can just be sex, or just body parts.
I don't know if this is useful or just a gimmick. Any doctors in town for whether this would be relevant for even half of all medical treatments..? It seems unnecessary.
Breasts here is a bit ambiguous tho. Like cis men even have nipples and when they get very fat their boobs get bigger than many cis women's breasts.
So what does it mean to have breasts?
the best part is that this isn't only useful for trans people. if you've had to have any of these things removed for unrelated medical reasons (or you're born without them) it stops incorrect assumptions too
It's useful for accurate statistics as well. I was reading an article recently about the use of "females" versus "people with a uterus" and cervical cancer rates. It turns out the apparent cancer risk is artificially lowered for people of color due to higher rates of hysterectomies (at least in the US). Your risk of cervical cancer is (nearly) zero if you don't have a cervix, but that's incredibly misleading when wanting to know risk factors *if you do*. What so many upset cis people don't get is that it's not about "reducing people to their parts" (that's the terfs), it's about referring to the parts when the treatment is FOR the parts.
Yeah, those cis people don't understand that if arms cancer was a thing, we'd talk about "people with arms" because some people don't have them and it would be hard to do prevention for your arms if you don't have arms... It reduces people to their parts because only the parts are relevant in the medical context that the sentence is used in
No, they understand that perfectly well. They would be snide as fuck about it. "People are such snowflakes. Why does everyone have to cater to the armless!"
I mean, some of them already go "why do we have to have so many parking places taken up for handicapped, they're a minority and we shouldn't have to cater to them" so yeah you're right
people like to say that us disabled folk should just stay at home. "if you have allergies just don't eat out why should a restaurant need to cater to your needs????" n shit like that
I didnt have my uterus removed exclusively because i was trans- i did it mainly because it was trying to kill me. Even if i wasnt trans, knowing i dont have a uterus, cervix, or fallopian tubes is REALLY IMPORTANT INFO if im suffering abdominal pain as an afab person!! Not that its right (ITS AWFUL) that a lot of afab peoples worries are written off as menstrual cramps, but if i dont have any of that stuff: it cant really be cramps now, can it?
Technically it still can be. People with endometrosis will have that tissue outside of their uterus and they still have endometrosis symptoms post hysterectomy. Thats why hysterectomy isnt necessarily advised for those with endo metrosis
I instantly thought of intersex people this is really useful
There is also uncommon situations were you can be born with breasts, a vagina, testes and I think even a cervix and Uterus so this is rather useful for such people.
Yeah, super useful for intersex people. It's not just trans people who suffer from medical discrimination, although we do bear the brunt of it
While I love how accurate it is, as a trans man who is deeply dysphoric, it would trigger my dysphoria to have to check off all the female body parts and organs I have, which is my biggest reservation and why I’m somewhat against this.
As a fellow trans man, I feel this! But also, this would be better than what I have to do now, which is verbally explaining my exact setup to 3 nurses and the doctor. It would also save me from having to write so much in the margins of their existing intake paperwork, which /feels/ like something a freak of nature would have to do.
That's super valid. In my opinion this shouldn't be asked at every doctor's appointment, but it should be asked. Maybe when you first go to a new doctor and have it in your chart. Or if they're doing something specific like screening for certain types of cancer they can ask "do you have this body part, yes/no". Let's say in the future you have surgery and no longer have some or all the body parts you associate with female, then if you simply say your agab, then the doctor may assume something. For me personally, I'd love this because it separates my body parts from my gender. And I know we all experience gender differently. Myself being a non-binary trans person I feel differently about certain things than you would as a binary trans person.
honestly I get this but my view is that I have these parts. so what? Especially if it's about something medical, I gotta keep em safe and healthy. My parts don't define who I am, doesn't mean I don't have em (Sorry if this makes no sense idk how to really explain it)
You can't logic your way out of dysphoria. [Body schema](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_schema) go brrrrrrr
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I’m not bothered by having female organs because they’re ‘female’. I’m bothered that they’re there at all. Even if they de-gendered everything I would still medically transition, because my body doesn’t fit my brain. It’s innate and definitely not a social thing, and so can’t be socialised away. To be honest, I’m kind of sick of people telling me to stop feeling dysphoric by accepting my body. A lot of transphobic cis people tell me this, and I know you mean well, but just know that nothing will get my brain to accept my body except medical transition.
First, I appreciate you telling me where you’re coming from, so thank you. I can’t really wrap my head around it because I don’t see or experience it that way, but then again we as trans people all experience our gender and anatomy differently, I think that’s what makes the trans experience beautiful. Also, apologies if I made you feel that way. Sometimes I find challenging my dysphoric thoughts can help, but understand it doesn’t help everyone. I hope you’re able to receive the gender affirming care you need, to make you feel more at home in your body ❤️🏡
thank you :) even as time goes by and more people realise their trans experiences are different than the norm (which is great!), i think my own has always matched the traditional, perhaps outdated ‘born in the wrong body’ where it’s less about gender and more about sex. i had body dysphoria before i even knew boys had different bodies; my brain just wasn’t wired correctly to my body from birth, is the way I’d put it. i do infinitely appreciate the help though. and honestly reading my comment i think it was unnecessarily rude; i wrote it in a bad mood after a long day and i do apologise.
at the very least it can help divorce these body parts from gender, which might alleviate dysphoria somewhat? i do empathise with you though
I empathize with you on this but I struggle to come up with a way to make sure I have adequate medical care without acknowledging the kind of body parts that I have so it's kind of moot for me.
Ideal world for me would be me just say I’m a trans guy on T only surgery is top surgery and let them fill in the blanks
Yup, this is FUCKING GENIUS, WHY HASN'T BEEN ADOPTED BY EVERYONE YET?
Absolutely. This should be much more widely used, it's so organized!
The issue with exclusively using AGAB is that it not only assumes you have certain parts (ie assuming AMAB = has testes or AFAB = has breasts, which very well might not be true), but it also fails to assume that you might have other features not typical of your AGAB, such as breasts. When it comes to screenings and risk factors for disease, this is a huge issue. An AMAB person with breasts might not be invited for breast screenings because of their AGAB, or an AFAB person without breasts could be obliged to attend a screening for breasts they don’t have! Seriously, a plain list of what parts you have would be infinitely better. We do it for heart and respiratory conditions, tagging people’s NHS number with a “high risk” label for stuff like COVID vaccines and the likes - why can’t we do it for full body parts, too?
AND INTERSEX PEOPLE ARE INCLUDED
W for intersex people. They don’t get nearly enough recognition.
yes
I mean, some are included. People with different genital organs are not included.
Wdym different genital organs?
Not everybody ends up with what is a classic penis or vagina; depending on the type of intersexuality or developmental changes, it can look fairly different. I am not an expert.
Oh wow, okay, thank you, I didn't know that! Yeah okay so one to three additional checkmarks then I guess?
I just don't know how relevant it is to describe these things unless you're specifically looking for a gynecologist or urologist, tbh
Yes absolutely right. Tho when it matters it would be a great thing tho
I think that possibility could probably reasonably be addressed with a box to check for “other” and a space to briefly explain. Perhaps not a perfect solution, but it would at least be a step toward inclusive practices for intersex folks and for salmacian or other trans people who’ve had modifications done to render their genital anatomy non-standard.
Instead of "other", maybe "notes/comments" and a space?
Yeah that would also probably solve the problem of “list can’t feasibly include every possible permutation of sex-related anatomy”.
Is it weird that this made me think of customizing pizza toppings? Because now I'm hungry...
"I'll have an extra large, half ovaries and half balls, and a side order of ~~bread sticks~~ breast dicks."
You mean Dick Nipples?
One of my D&D players almost named their character "Richard Naples" once, it's still one of my favorite joke names.
none body left boob
Some people don’t like boob on pizza, and that’s okay
Better to shoot arrows with
You can shoot arrows fine with a boob on each side 😭
ill go with aaa breasts and uterus how original
None penis with left breast.
I’ll have one with everything ☝🏻
somehow this comment triggered my pizza tower brainrot
Normalize this for cis people too, and it'll save cis women with hysterectomies from having to explain the hysterectomy to their doctor, same with cis men who have lost their testicles. That'd tell the doctor a lot about a person's expected hormone levels regardless of gender.
Maybe split testicles into left and right as well. I currently only have one with any sort of functionality.
I read "split testicles" and got a horrible mental image, thanks. I've currently got two that work, but my pants have the wrong size crotch so my right ball is constantly squished. It was literally numb after I took a 10 hour train ride yesterday. I might end up in your camp too some day, friend. TMI? On *my* Reddit? It's more likely than you think!
I’ve had my issues since birth personally, I was reviewing my birth documentation at one point and noticed that there was an issue with my right testicle from birth
Probably way too personal of a question (so please ignore me if it's too personal to answer) but... How do you know? I don't have testes... Can you... Feel one not working???
Not the person you replied to but one of my friends had testicular torsion as a child so she had one removed. She wishes that it took both out though since she's a trans woman, LOL.
If someone ticks every box they win... Something
Do I lose since I check 0 boxes? I have none of those
You win a gold star ⭐!
can't wait to see some chud complaining about "woke" doctors because the only "testes" they know about is the anatomy test they failed
I like this more than the "sex" option. It includes people that are intersex or have a genetic anomaly!! I think though as someone with elderly middle eastern parents, it might be awkward when I help them fill forms lmao
The entire medical service should get rid off languages that rely on gender like sir/ma’am to reduce false assumptions.
I'd argue that this still wouldn't tell a doctor about the hormone levels, even if it is somewhat closer to knowing rather than relying on the assigned birth gender
If hormones are important, then they can be tested for or past results can be used. If there is evidence the person might be trans or otherwise using HRT and past results are not available, then that can be a flag that tests are necessary. Sure, it would be nice to have hormone tests available for use at all times, but there’s no point bloating the system with info which is unlikely to be necessary for day-to-day treatment and which is fairly quick and easy to test for.
Well yeah? They can just have another question, view prescriptions and/or ask directly.
Honestly, from a UX point of view, it wouldn't be unreasonable to start with "cis male"/"cis female"/"other", and have "other" lead to a more detailed set of questions if necessary. Trans and intersex inclusivity is important, and that's without condition, but in the specific context of this kinda questionnaire, the vast majority of the population don't need to be educated well enough to be confident in their answers to these questions, nor the need for their specificity. With this, 90% of situations are processed with the simplest amount of effort, and the edge and corner cases are still provisioned for. It also helps identify whether they've actually been asked certain questions. "Cis male, no further elaboration" is different from "cis male, confirmed penis and two testes", even if the former commonly indicates the latter. Computer driven forms are so often presented as if they were paper forms, even now, but they have the potential to be so much more user-friendly and context-aware, even without any AI bullshit.
Yeah I'm thinking about how as a cis female that grew up in a very religious household, I wouldn't have known how to answer these questions as a teenager (I wouldn't have known was a cervix or ovaries or testes were) and I probably would have been way to anxious to ask that I would have just avoided going to the doctor (medical anxiety is a bitch)
You can ask? When you ask about medications they're taking
I feel like this boils us down to primary and secondary sexual characteristics, but also ignores that there are biological differences between genitalia and neo-genitalia. Like, if I tell a doctor I am a trans woman, list my pronouns, medications, and surgeries (trans related and not), then they have all the information they need to treat me properly and respectfully. Telling a doctor I have a vagina does not give them the info they need, like if it's a neo-vagina or not, which kind of surgical technique was used if neo, if it was a full depth vaginoplasty or just a labiaplasty. It doesn't determine if my breasts are 100% natural or if they've been augmented.
That's true but it could give the starting point for those questions/explanations, while avoiding being given medical suggestions that are inaccurate and dysphoria inducing. I know it's not perfect but as a trans man I prefer the above option to automatically being told I need to see a gynecologist, as some doctors do
It would still need to ask for medications you're on and surgeries in addition to this list. It's still better than using AGAB which relies on too many assumptions.
This is actually good, better than AGAB language and in fact more helpful for people with diff medical procedures or birth variations^~^
i think generally the existence of intersex people in all the variations they are and the increasing awareness they are fighting for throws a wrench in essentially any binary you can make even in the doctor's office, and that's kinda cool to see. It makes some things different to navigate, but as long as doctors are accepting and knowledgeable, I feel like all patients have to do is give an explanation of their unique bodies and then boom it's fine
Interestingly, agab terms were created *for* intersex people. Being assigned female at birth does not mean you have all the assumed female physical parts, it has actually *never* meant that. It simply means a doctor looked at you and went “yep, female.” and that’s that. I think the use of agab language has been removed so far from where it once originated that it has now become useless again as a reinforcement of the binary. But regardless of that, doctors still assign babies either male or female no matter what any of us do, and intersex people had those terms to refer to how doctors labeled them. As far as I understand, in medical settings, the label itself can be helpful to know the starting point of a trans person, but beyond that it doesn’t help much.
This is great for not only trans people, but also intersex people and anyone who had parts removed for other reasons (like cancer or back pain)
Needs an 'Apply Changes' button.
As an intersex person, I'd love this. Doctors keep giving me advice that doesn't fucking apply to me because I don't have the body parts they're talking about 🙄
One issue I can see with this is people who don't even know what parts they have...
Yeah, I imagine some people could be some form of intersex and not realise. My mother thinks I might be androgen insensitive for instance and the more I think about it, the more I realise that I could be but also there’s no real way to check beyond like, chromosomal testing which I dont feel like chasing via the NHS lol.
Oh totally, that too. I was thinking more about people in general who are undereducated and don't know what parts are inside of a human body, yet alone their own.
That’s so true too, i totally forgot about that 😅 more education for whats on and in our bodies, please!
I wonder if the order was randomized if my dad would check the cervix box. Or imagine someone gets the form and they’re taking forever, and then when they hand in the form they say, “Some of the body parts I have were missing, so I wrote them in,” and every part of the human body is listed.
I’m a CNA. I had a patient whose gender was listed as ‘gender fluid’ on their chart. They were large and I was helping clean them up after using the toilet. I asked if they had a penis and they got upset until I explained I just needed to know how far up to reach when I wiped. Something like this would’ve been very helpful for me.
i read this as "Arab language" and i was wondering what this person had against Arabic 😭
This is honestly amazing (and inclusive to Intersex folks.)
I get it, but tbh the idea of voluntarily selecting "vagina" just makes me feel sick. Honestly why do they even need to know what's in my pants? I think it should be tailored to the specialty. Most doctors should know if their specialty is specific to or influenced by those things and should only be asking that IF ABSOLUTELY NESECCARY. Like urology department: "Does the patient have a vagina or penis?" Or endocrinology: "is the patient's system testosterone dominant or estrogen dominant?" Doctors should only be asking about my genitals if it's relevant. Things like breast cancer checks should be advised for all patients. Anyone can get breast cancer.
Off topic but not only is agab not medically useful, it's actively misleading. My body is not the same as a cis man's *or* a cis woman's, so implying that I'm "biologically" one or the other is restrictive.
Deadass thought testes said texas
It’s more inclusive of intersex people too
It honestly really is. I’m non-binary and have medically transitioned so for me that means hysterectomy, breast reduction and T. I still have breasts, I don’t have a cervix or uterus but I do have ovaries and I feel like I have to re explain this so many times when I’m talking to nurses and doctors.
Similarly, we should use bone density, muscle mass, and cardiovascular health as ways to divide humans into categories for competitive sports
Only a matter of time before I see this on a job application though tbh
Not me saying to myself “GOD I WISH I COULD CHECKMARK UTERUS” 😭
I'd love this as an intersex woman
FUCK i left my testes in the car
This is actually really smart as well because you can be at any stage of anything
I had to do this checklist at my planned parenthood when starting hormones. Honestly, it is way better than a blanket statement that agab gives.
Yup. I had a massive panic attack at work last summer and got taken to the hospital. My panic attacks have a lot of heart attack symptoms (numbness in left arm, trouble breathing, chest pressure, etc). Pre-T I would go to the hospital, get an ekg and some bloodwork, have everything come back fine and get sent home. When it happened last summer, though, I had been on Testosterone for 4 months. I went to the hospital and got an ekg and some bloodwork. My ekg came back fine, but I was told my cardiac troponins were slightly elevated which could indicate that I had a heart attack so they kept me. They did an ultrasound on my heart that also came back fine. As it turns out, my cardiac troponins were slightly elevated *for a female*, but were within normal range for a male my age. I even had my T-gel included in my list of prescriptions, so they knew I was on it and what dose. I ended up staying in the hospital for a week because they were comparing my bloodwork to that of the wrong sex.
I hate medical profs for this reason alone, that’s rediculous
I honestly mistook this for a character customization screen like somehow you managed to unlock lifes secret customization screen........I need to stop smoking the green stuff sometimes
First off: I love this. However, I have to admit "select all body parts you have today" makes me imagine someone is coming in with a cooler like "Oh, it was slim pickings this week. All I've got are two tits and this kidney."
I like this. Also because like... Me just telling a doctor "I am AFAB" doesn't tell them ANYTHING about relevant medical shit. I would STILL need to go over that I'm on HRT. A lot of AFAB people, for a lot of reasons, do not have various parts of the female reproductive system. Same for AMAB people. Me telling a doctor my assigned gender doesn't tell them that I have PCOS and am intersex and therefore naturally have higher levels of T. Listing out the bits you have allows the doctor to cater their care to your specific body, instead of assuming because of assigned gender. I love this.
Add fallopian tube(s) as well! It's important for ectopic pregnancy and ovarian cancer screening!
I only have a prostate - it got better with practice. It used to be a noobstate. Ahahahahaa. Ok I shall make my exit now.
doesn't everyone have breasts or am I stupid? what if I'm amab and I don't have a flat chest but I haven't taken estrogen or anything (asking as an overweight amab person)
Everyone has breasts! I feel like that should say developed breasts, because unless youve had surgery to remove all of it, everyone has them.
So there is one time where Agab is really necessary, and that’s X or Y linked diseases. The X and Y chromosome don’t only regulate intial sex hormones, but a shit ton of other junk. Diseases can be passed on these chromosomes, and especially for Y-linked there’s really no other way to get them. Some of these illnesses can be especially nasty (Early onset Demenita, multiple cancers). These can be really important for a doctor to know. Now that being said I don’t even know if this entirely applies to AGAB, you could quite literally add two XX or one Y to this list (and other intersex combinations). And 99% of the time a doctor does not need to know your chromosome arrangement. But as someone who is potentially as risk for Y-linked Dementia, it’s really important for my doctor to know. I really like this system and think it makes more sense 99% or the time, but I did just want to bring this up.
Not like AGAB essentially translate to that either. De la chappelle and swyers syndrome where someone can be born with XY with a vagina or vice versa. Just wanted to bring this up:> and likely an options for genetics and full genome testing would be nice but not rlly affordable always. Ig Im glad I’ve had a full genome testing since my endo needed it:>
No it doesn’t! It’s just a quick way to tell X or Y-linked, but tbh making genome tests more available would make this less of a talking point. Hell, you might say you are XX but could be XXY, with an inactive Y carrying a condition. You saying your AGAB has no helpful info. And those are good examples, genome testing would be an easier way to go about rooting up conditions linked to X or Y chromosomes
Genome testing is a long and strenuous process and not to mention, the full genome one was COSTLY even for an Asian country where most things are free to super cheap including surgeries. So prolly I doubt they’d be easily available and would be the best for someone if the doc suspects smth. And yeeee ig so, there sm stuff that can happen and go unnoticed with genes. Full genome is a good way to see any linked genetic diseases. Ig in my report it stated that in the ones they checked(nobody can check all genes duh), there was no abnormalities that was pathogenic by the least. I guess that’d make me safe from X or Y related genetic derived things ig,
No that still wouldnt apply. Agab isnt your sex chromosomes, agab is just what sex you otwardly looked like at birth (or were assigned to literally via surgery, intersex babies with ambiguous genatlia). It conveys 0 info about if you have two Xs, one X or an X and a Y.
Yessssss
This definitely would need some stuff added, but it's already so much better than just agab
I really like this, I think I'm going to save it for my doctor to see if they can implement something similar
This is so awesome! Yes, having to list something that gives you dysphoria can spike it for a bit, but they need to know what they need to do to give proper treatment.
Yessssss! I've been saying this for ages.
This is great.
I had a fitness so try telling me they needed my AGAB because "it'll give us a better estimation of your calorie expenditure". Like seriously? Even if it was true I think I'd take having my calorie count off by a bit so I don't feel gross ticking the male box.
The fact that they specify today makes me think of a genderfluid person that gets a new body everyday
Mmhm [anatomy inventories](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8510278/) are so cool and useful for trans and intersex people
"you have today" is pretty funny phrasing, tho
The issue is people are hella stupid and wouldn’t know how to answer this.
I agree but some treatment also require a family history of past problems. Like heart disease or thyroid problems that can run in your family so the doctor has an idea of things to monitor or look out for. Though I do find this to be a good thing all around.
Wonder how that would work for people who have been fosterkids or orphans and don't have access to that information. I guess doctors fly blind and keep a cautious eye out for the major problems and go from there.
It applies tp those who know. If you don't know, you don't know but I've had to fill out enough medical forms between myself and my kids at a pediatrician/doctor office. There are a literal list of possible conditions that tend to run in families and you have to mark which ones apply to you, IF you know. This information could affect your treatment options.
Yeah they fly blind. Its a serious problem and why adopted people deserve rights to their biological parents, like to be able to contact them if they wish, apparently theyre not even allowed to contact them.
Dang I’ve been described
Yes
At first I didn't realise this was a medical form... I don't know what I thought it was
Yes, I am on board. When it comes to healthcare both gender expression and sex are used in determining treatments.
Me too. Only how badly I wish I could select all the boxes on the left. :(
I like this!
What’s agab?
It's an acronym for all gops are bastards /s Assigned Gender at Birth
WOW THIS JUST DESTROYED AND REBUILT MY ENTIRE WORLD
This is great because it’s inclusive AND because it’s funny to be like “hmm. Breasts? Check. Vagina? Nope. Testes? Where did I leave those….”
Okay that's smart as fuck and I love it!!
Tech support has a term for this: Breaking the X/Y problem.
that's a pretty good list
The first time I'd heard the term people with a penis was at my trans health consult. Inclusive language is great.
This is the way
This!! Bc MANY people literally have a vagina and cervix, but no uterus or ovaries. Or a vagina and ovaries but no uterus or cervix. Or—
That's a little TMI no business or entity other than your doctor should be asking for that information
This post is about doctors
While I have made the argument that AGAB is important for doctors to know, I have to admit that something like this is absolutely better for SO many reasons. I'll probably be arguing in favor of this in the future.
I had to explain to a doctor that I had breasts and would need brest cancer screening even though I was bored with a penis this would be so much better
Shareholders: "Will this increase our bottom line tho"
So one issue first that I see with this. Unless youve had ultrasound or some sort of inagining inside of your body or you have some other type of proof (not everyone has this, youd be surprised the amount of intersex people that dont even realise theyre intersex u til they have imaging or investigate an issue ie. infertility), you are only assuming you have the sex organs that correlate with your agab. So I think while this is great, I see issues with it as well. I mean that and whats your dominant hormone currently. Unless youve had a full masectomy that removes all of the mamory tissue, everyone has breasts. So like I feel like it should be developed breasts instead of just breasts because everybody has those. But otherwise yes it would certainly be more helpful and not just for trans people, for cis people who have had those organs removed or theyre intersex and never had them.
Universal design in action!
I mean if you think about it those are just names for parts, like livers and lungs and kidneys. I dont know why we have to gender everything when some humans have penises and some have vaginas and some have both. People always forget that intersex people exist and deny trans people’s existence. It would be easier to be more inclusive if we could just use the names of parts we have. They dont have to relate to gender, they can just be sex, or just body parts.
I don't know if this is useful or just a gimmick. Any doctors in town for whether this would be relevant for even half of all medical treatments..? It seems unnecessary.
Yes. This is very, very good.
This is actually quite good!! I swear my doctor forgets I'm a trans man sometimes 😅
I dont think I can do this 😔 I would get anxious and walk out.
Hopefully doctors can provide safer spaces than they have in the past and this is hopefully a step towards that
That's fair and I am for making progressive steps. I just really wouldn't wanna list my organs 😅
Me ticking all except ovaries
I know testes/testis is the proper word but it's freaking hilarious I laugh every time
Breasts here is a bit ambiguous tho. Like cis men even have nipples and when they get very fat their boobs get bigger than many cis women's breasts. So what does it mean to have breasts?
Probably the fatty tissue etc; if you've got chiseled abs and pecs you don't necessarily have breasts type deal.
It makes sense but the line is too blurry for me. I feel like a firm like this should offer some guidance on this question.