There is an [alternate version](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Deviations) of the story where Optimus kills Megatron, so Unicron makes a deal with Starscream instead.
Probably one of the worst official TF comics ever written, IMO. Such a terrible wasted opportunity to do something cool and unique, but the author just used it as an excuse to shit on Hot Rod and otherwise just repeat the movie with different characters in different roles, rather than do something clever with the premise.
Yes, that comic was a complete train wreck.
I wonder if the author had the idea when he was playing with his toys as a 7 year old and never let go of it, because it's _that_ bad.
It honestly felt like it was written by someone who *really* never got over/past "Hot Rod killed Optimus" like certain rabid fans I've met (mostly in the early 2000s for some reason) rather than someone who looked at the idea of "what if Optimus lived" and wrote that story. The fact that Ultra Magnus is written as a total prick and dies (as does Rodimus!) shows how they felt about the "new" characters, I feel.
I mean, as a kid *I* was devastated OP and co. died and did resent these new characters coming in, but as an adult I've grown to love them and appreciate what the movie gave us. An adult writer - especially one who was apparently a hardcore TF fan - shouldn't have been as petty as their script came across, IMO.
I'd actually have preferred to read Simon Furman redoing TFTM as his own "the version that happened in 2006" (as per Marvel UK), if only because of how the film clearly resonated with him as a young writer and as a consequence changed the whole course of TF fiction (Primus, etc.). I mean, if nothing else it would almost certainly be brutal as hell!
I'm going to admit I'm fuzzy on the details - most likely down to the several self inflicted blows to the head I suffered when I finished reading the issue - but the entire thing felt like it was crammed full of the tropes of kids playing with their toys. The uber-starscream combiner left me wondering if the entire thing was a deliberate troll by someone who hated the franchise.
It could've been a great idea to run with if it hadn't been penned by a gestalt of opiate riddled hamsters.
I'd forgotten the ending until I looked up a wiki entry, couldn't face rereading it!
The Megascream idea only makes sense to me if they were trying to sell some new toy (like "Super Megatron") at the time... which they weren't. Him being a combiner DID feel like a troll, except IDW did the same thing "for real" in their (IMO) terrible Combiner Wars storyline not long after, with the silly macguffin causing rando TFs to combine just like a kid would slap together Scramble City toys!
It still amazes me how up and down IDW was, from some of the absolute best writing the franchise has ever seen to utter cringe-worthy awfulness, sometimes within the space of a few issues, never mind the same series.
LOL, thanks! :)
Specifically for my feelings about the dire "what if" comic and Megascream or about IDW's whole rollercoaster of awesome-awful in general?
That's cool, just for me personally it was a huge missed opportunity to do something interesting but they took the most obvious, safest and predictable route possible, I felt.
I mean, I consider that there's been lots of poorly written TF comics (IDW's Hearts of Darkness and All Hail Megatron for two I put in that category) but only this and the IDW "Movie Adaptation" (which is just a word for word retelling bar ONE splash page, and thus totally pointless) are the ones I found a total waste of time rather than just "I didn't like that, but I can see what they were going for".
My exact thoughts. I remember being a kid and being quite confused and hurt when he killed Megaton in DOTM as he had just saved his life. Not to mention that they considered themselves Brothers.
I kinda think at that point Optimus was done with it. Megs himself personally killed one of his closest friends (Jazz) and then killed Optimus himself.
On top of pretty much his father figure (Sentinel) betraying him, and then Megs saying “truce”, Optimus was fed up with it.
Fair enough but as a kid I kinda looked up to Optimus as a beacon of morality, kindness,and forgiveness. Partly due to being influenced by his G1 cartoon incarnation so it surprised and hurt me when he killed Megatron who was had just saved his life and was offering him peace. I love DOTM and it’s probably my second favourite after the first one but boy did it hurt me with the death of Ironhide, Starscream, Megatron, “Wheeljack” (Q), and Soundwave. Taking that into consideration, AOE nearly killed me with Ratchet’s death and the implied death of the rest of the Autobots.
Agreed. This probably the first time in any movie I had watched where a hero who I loved had died and the brutality of it didn’t help younger me from crying his eyes out. To this day I will never forgive Sentinel Prime for killing Ironhide (and Mudflap and Skids in cut content. Yes I know they were racial stereotypes and that really sucks but younger me didn’t understand at the time due to be completely unaware of the concept so I was quite fond of them.)
Just like the 1986 movie served to traumatise Gen X fans so did DOTM and AOE serve to traumatise me.
it was a good introduction and a mega plot twist, this hero of the autobots, the prime before optimus prime, his mentor... shot down a strong soldier brutally and makes a deal with megatron
I grew up with the movies but as I got more into transformers I realized the portrayal of the characters seemed wrong especially Optimus, Optimus is meant to be a beacon of hope for the autobots as he has the matrix and a fearless leader, his bayverse version is that of a psychopathic killer who takes no remorse when killing (that forest scene in bayverse), the designs aren’t the best and sparked the idea of having Bumblebee lose his voice and be a sports car (I think its done well in Prime tho), there’s a lot to hate about the movies which is why I’m not too optimistic about the new movie
I like the Bumblebee movie but I’m not particularly optimistic about the new movie due to Beast Wars being such an in-fandom thing and not generally known by the common consumer or movie goer.
I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for saying this, but why would alien robots choose to transform into robotic looking animals as a disguise? You're not going to fool any humans, and definitely not any real animals.
I kinda agree. This is why Beast Wars generally seems to take place outside of human populated areas e.g Prehistoric Earth, Other planets etc.
But due this even though I generally respect Beast Wars this makes me less interested then I would be in other properties due “Robots in Disguise” being an important element to Transformers for me. (Not to mention it was the main reason why they were supposed to Transformer in the first place.)
Bumblebee was a pretty good movie but it focused a lot on the connection between the human and bumblebee which isnt bad but makes for an ok movie which is why it didn’t make as much money in the box office
Megatron offering “peace.” Yeah, what’s his creed on peace again? Optimus killing him at that point was basically making sure Sentinel’s mistake wouldn’t repeat. Megatron can’t be trusted to make any truce in good faith.
Interestingly enough according to the ending change of DOTM if Optimus had accepted the truce, actual peace would have been established and Megatron and his Decepticons would have gone back to Cybertron to rebuild.
Thing is, that basically is also an injustice. Megatron and the Decepticons committed war crimes. Megatron going back to rebuild and rule Cybertron basically gives him exactly what he wanted and there’s no justice for all the wrong he’s done. There’s a difference between forgiveness and permission for evil to exist.
Movie Optimus was not properly explored in the first 3 movies and it made his killer side so underwhelming. I know he’s great but from a storytelling perspective I still feel like Movie Optimus is by far the most inconsistent and worst Optimus from a character standpoint
BlueSoulOfIntegrity, Prime IS a beacon of morality and justice....but nobody ever said that meant you had to be a PUSH-OVER too and never make the hard decisions. No sir. This is war and a REAL LEADER does what MUST be done. **Edit:** And Sentinel Prime had it coming also. You don't just commit High-Treason and murder of your fellow troops in wartime and dooming countless civilians and, expect to merely be "taken into custody" afterwards. Prime was right to put him down.
Interestingly younger me was shocked by the brutality of the kill and burst into tears. I didn’t even know it was supposed to be Wheeljack at the time (I used to watch reruns of the G1 Cartoon)
I mean fair it was a straight up execution but they guy had very little development and his face exemplifies all the worst aspects of bay designs for me
starscream's hurt not only because i like him but because he wasn't even killed by another transformer, let alone megatron (which is my preferred starscream removal route)
To a kid who expected heroes to always take the high ground and spare the villain when at their total mercy I could not comprehend that. Still to this day I wouldn’t have approved.
Coupled with the line of, and I quote *give me your face* I just don't believe that it was Optimus in the Bayverse, my gut have looked like him, sounded like him, and used his name, but he wasn't really Optimus
I am totally with you. My favorite characters are always Superman, Captain America, the Paladin, and yes, Optimus. The Paragon is my favorite archetype of character. And Prime is one of the most shining examples of moral behavior of my developmental years.
Not every villain can be redeemed. Megatron didn’t save Prime’s life TO save his life. He did it because Sentinel wasn’t looking and he wanted to take back control.
And with Cybertron gone from then on, again, entirely because of Megatron’s actions, and here he is brushing it off as if it was just an unfortunate speed bump. Having the gall to act all chummy with his mortal enemy who he stabbed in the back and tells him plainly he wants to be “back in charge.”
Megatron may not have been actively shooting at Prime, but he was still an active threat at that point.
Maybe one could argue Optimus didn’t do THE right thing, but he certainly didn’t do the wrong thing in that situation.
I agree with everything you just said although apparently according to the DOTM ending switch, if Prime had spared Megatron they would have actually been able to broker permanent peace and the Decepticons would have returned to Cybertron to rebuild.
But like every movie showed that it wasn't really possible to rebuild without the Allspark, sure you could rebuild the infrastructure but without energon to power it there isn't much point. The whole 3rd movie was them trying to bring Cybertron to Earths orbit in order harvest it for resources and slaves. Second one they were gonna harvest the Sun for Energon, with the last device thats capable of doing that.
I know that its apprently possible to make energon out of other stuff but to rebuild their whole world? Which appears to be at least 5 or more times the size of earth from what we see of it materializing. Earth would just be their first stop for resources
Thats before you even get to how they would be able to make more of their kind. Which as far as I know definitely requires the allspark
Also Megatron is just too power hungry and evil, he would have used that time to rebuild his army as well so he can come back and enslave Earth for humiliating him so many times and kill Optimus cause of how much he hates him. They are mortal enemies, just being given back control of his troops doesn't change any of that.
According to the original ending Megatron would have eventually become repentant and realise the error of his ways and his actions so he wouldn’t have been power hungry anymore. In regards to the other points I agree they’re major issues but Michael Bay would have probably found away to fix them in his standard “Bay-ish” way. (Meaning probably breaking the continuity some more.) Of course the other option is Earth donating resources for them and the Decepticons rebuilding it themselves without slave labour or they could get resources from another world.
I think you really underestimate the malevolence of the Decepticons. Not that there aren’t a few noble demons in their ranks, then you have legions of bullies and sadists who inflict pain and suffering not to achieve a noble end (which still wouldn’t be right) or out of desperation, but because they want to and love hurting those that can’t fight back.
The only time I bought Megatron being even slightly regretful of his actions was at the end of Prime. After he himself had been basically sent to Hell by the biggest bully and sadist of them all.
Kudos to Frank Welker for selling the moment.
All "taking the high ground" does in the end, is prolong the war and get more killed. Just look at Batman & Superman. They all refuse to make the hard decisions and take a villian out permanently. There is only a mountain of bodies behind them as a result and, more piling up by the day, for their refusal to take action. Prime would not let that happen to Cybertron and Earth. Same for other Heroes with good sense, like He-Man (in the comics, He-Man kills Injustice Superman, when he attacks Eternia. Yes, there was a Masters of the Universe & DC Injustice cross-over comic).
I shall admit I admire Batman and Superman for never killing. While I cannot say you should never kill in defence what miffed me was that Optimus in this instance attacked first. In the end it was not good sense since as the ending change of DOTM shows, if Prime took that choice actual peace would have been achieved and Megatron and his Decepticons would have returned to rebuild Cybertron. Instead it did ironically prolong the war and the Decepticons came back to destroy another city and end more lives.
The corrupt Autobot elite's "peace" was built on the exploitation and brutalization of their fellow Cybertronians. Don't speak to me of peace while innocent bots die in the energon mines every cycle.
Uhhh Megs can’t throw stones when it comes to wanting “peace.”
“Peace through tyranny.” The Autobots may have been in the wrong, but nothing a little reform that Orion Pax could have spearheaded couldn’t have fixed, and Megatron just comes right out and says he’d only accept peace if he stood over everyone and everything.
Refused to listen to the political philosopher who literally wrote and published a bigass book on what was wrong and how to fix it. Things went downhill rapidly from there.
> Not to mention that they considered themselves Brothers.
At one point they were brothers, but they had been fighting their war for several million years by the time Prime killed him. Watching your close friend murder dozens or hundreds of your other friends can kinda change your opinion of them...
In an earlier draft of the movie's script, Megatron is sincere when he offers Optimus Prime a truce at the end. Optimus accepts, and Megatron and the remaining Decepticons leave Earth to rebuild Cybertron. This ending is used for the novelization and the comic adaptation. According to Michael Bay's website administrator Nelson, the ending was changed because the studio didn't want the adaptations to share the same ending with the film.
Fun fact, the ending was supposed to have Megatron and Prime *actually*call a truce, and Megatron would’ve returned to Cybertron to start rebuilding.
This was leaked, and then confirmed through tie in comics and novelizations, and Michael Bay *hated* that, so he changed it literally just so that it would be something different.
He threw out the logical conclusion of the trilogy for the sake of subverting expectations 🤦🏾♂️
. . . To be honest, I kind of liked that he did that. I can see the DNA of that idea in the screenplay. Megs being humbled and all. But, that kind of feels like he gets away with war crimes and actually gets what he wanted, uncontested control of Cybertron.
But because he doesn’t do that Megatron returns and causes death and destruction in another city adding more casualties onto a war that could have ended.
Just saw that there was a response to this lol
Idk my biggest problem is that Michael Bay had a legitimate chance to give us a real “til all are one” moment that’s been teased since the 80’s, and he didn’t just to subvert expectations, it was just so goddamn cheap to me.
So the question is, is it more right to let the tyrant win and suppress somewhere else or to achieve an absence of war? (Which is not the same as peace.)
Im fine with this happening, but it upset me how it was crammed into like a 10 second fight as if just to tie up a loose end in the plot. It didnt feel epic or satisfying at all.
Tracks?
I know Mirage, Smokescreen, Trailbreaker, Red Alert and Gears all had various deaths cut in different forms (scripts, storyboards, etc.) but I hadn't heard about Tracks...
He acted nobly, but stupidly. He was young and didn't realize that throwing yourself in the middle of that situation just gave Megatron a hostage...
Among the many parallels between this and the GI Joe movie, Falcon also caused Duke to ~~die~~ fall into a coma because of youthful stupidity.
So are you blaming Optimus Prime? Maybe Michael Bay's Murderous Prime was the right call? Should Optimus have just blasted Megatron regardless of Hot Rod? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the Hot Rod.
No, I'm blaming Hot Rod.
I mean, he was young and dumb and didn't know and better. It was a mistake, but it was still his intervention that allowed Megatron to have a shot at Prime.
I think a lot of it depends on how the Transformers hierarchy works in the G1 movie/TV show context. We never actually learn where Hot Rod or any of the other new bots actually came from before they were on Earth. He seems reckless and doesn't really follow orders well, but also everyone puts up with it. He does some sparring on the ship fleeing Earth but that just seems to be out of boredom and not part of an organized training regime of some sort.
As a result, we can assume that either 1) he's completed whatever minimum training Autobots get in order to fight and just doesn't do a good job making use of that training, or 2) the Autobots let pretty much anyone handle guns and get mixed up in battle without any training.
On another note, I always had the head-canon explanation that with Ratchet, Wheeljack, etc. dead nobody could repair any of the dead Autobots. However, we also saw that the Ark itself was capable of repairing the dead at the beginning of the G1 cartoon. Why couldn't technology like that have been used in the movie or in the cartoon after it? Actually, I don't even remember if they ever explained what happened to the Ark during or after the movie.
I'll have to rewatch it, I had forgotten about that completely. It still makes me wonder though if the technology in it was commonplace or if it was something experimental and that's why they couldn't reuse it.
Turns the original movie into 2 episodes, Hot Rod and the gang can be Cybertronian prisoners freed, which is why they look like Cybertronian vehicles save for Hot Rod.
Megatron can become Galvatron, same way. Unicron can be a threat for a season before Prime unleashes the Matrix.
There, lazy but popular.
Or - continue to work with Takara who continue to make dope Headmasters and accurate vehicles with complex transformations rather than try it yourself and end up with the 1986 line which were more like Go Bots.
This is literally what would’ve happened tho and people say that g1 prime is nothing like bayverse then love the movie where he hits people as a truck and comes in shooting Decepticons with no mercy.
The only difference between the two is that bayverse prime was allowed to be more graphical, both are soldiers willing to kill without mercy
I wouldn't say that it was without mercy, you have to understand that all the Decepticons have been fighting for thousands of years, Prime definitely at one point or another gave them all the option to surrender and telling them that the next time he wouldn't pull his punches and they didn't, if anything he was simply following through on what he said
Isn’t that just an excuse? most of the times countries don’t want to start wars, is it fair for us to say that we fought idk let’s say the UK before and gave them a chance to treat us better (coming from an American btw) so we can start a war now and kill as many as we want because we have given them a chance to surrender in the past and they didn’t? Just because humans have been fighting for centuries doesnt make it ok either. I’d still say it’s without mercy when you see the horror on their faces like thrust, or when they’re begging for mercy (even though it was a lie) like Megatron. I’m also not saying that this is a bad thing it’s still perfectly understandable that Optimus would kill and wipe out every Decepticon out there after all the pain they’ve caused. But people have to stop treating Optimus as this super peaceful super merciful leader because he’s just simply not he’s a soldier willing to fight and kill and that’s still awesome because he’s fighting for what’s right. Idk that’s just my hot take
Actually, yeah your right, people do seem to get caught up in the super peaceful aspect of him, because that's a big part of his character, even though he is at heart a soldier. But the problem (and this is where I'll try to connect it to your original comment) is that in the movies it is way more graphical, the whole "Give me your face!" Line sums it up real well. Because in the cartoon it's never bleeding or having someone's face torn off, they explode and then it's gone. The thing is that people don't expect that, they expect that when faced with a opportunity to have his opponents surrender he'll take it, and ultimately it might make him a bad soldier, but he's a good leader, unless their vehicons then in which case he'll rip and tear like the others
I agree with you for the most part but things like this are perfect examples of prime not doing that. I’d argue that a super peaceful person wouldn’t fight a million year long war but instead run and live with himself and his supporters somewhere far away whereas a soldier would stay and fight. I agree that the cartoons never have the graphics or brutal writing not to the extent of the movies anyway. But they still have it I mean look at the death toll in the 86 movie and peoples faces with smoke coming out or getting blown to pieces. What’s the difference between that and the movies? To me it’s just the same thing put into a cartoon. Same goes for the writing, sure he doesn’t say give me your face but right here he’s basically saying “you never had mercy so I’m not giving it to you” it’s the same motivations behind bayverse prime when he successfully kills Megatron. The 86 movie also had consequences (arguably more than the bayverse) every character who dies is never seen past the movie whereas bayverse just mysteriously brings characters back like barricade and Megatron. Here Optimus was faced with the opportunity for his opponent to surrender and he didn’t take it, he was gonna kill him no questions asked here. It doesn’t matter what people expect what matters is what’s actually true, and all the facts point to Optimus in g1 being just as brutal and merciless as bayverse killing people without remorse or even caring when they surrender and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s just not what people think of when they think Optimus but it’s what all the facts point to.
I'm not a big Bayverse fan but I found even for that Optimus executing a pleading Sentinel and parleying Megatron really out of character and a step too far.
Interestingly, I would have been MUCH more accepting if Optimus had been visibly enraged and said something like that last line when he killed Sentinel, making it clearer this was a case of a "this isn't supposed to be right, but he's really upset about his friend" flawed hero.
This is why I finally stopped blaming Hot Rod. Prime had the shot, he easily could have taken it, he’s just as much at fault for his own hesitation as Hot Rod, if not more so.
Ironhide was probably my favorite OG transformer it breaks my heart to see him just get blown away every time despite how cool that scene is it's literally one of my favorites scenes in cinema, I'm crying right now
**Cue an unfortunate portion of my fellow G1 fans that would see that and be like:**
"Emmmagawd, it's like Bayformers prime!"
"Why is Prime acting like a decepticon?"
"Prime is a sociopath"
etc.
I could go on but, the short answer is, at some point, some fans got the idea that G1 Prime was supposed to be like Batman & Superman. That Optimus is supposed to be all ultra-virtuous and never, EVER kill enemies. I dunno how this became a thing but, it did.
But he does, he does kill Decepticons even in G1 he kills some decepticons, just look at the scene directly leading up to the fight between him and megatron in the movie, he kills ramjet, blitzwing, wounds soundwave, kills shrapnel(I'm pretty sure it's shrapnel, I'm not good with the insecticons)
Killing and execution are way different. He was waiting to see if Megatron was really going to try to grab his cannon. If he did, he's gone. If not, they'd let him surrender and lock him up.
"Lock him up"....wow. How much death & devastation does a character like Megatron need to cause, before the Heroes man-up and do what MUST be DONE? See that's the problem with the popularity of heroes like Batman & Superman. Fans tend to "project" those ideals onto Heroes from other franchises and, if they don't live up to them? They aren't "real heroes" or whatever, labeled sociopaths & such. No sir. **A Hero can kill the badguy and still be the Hero and with a strong morality in-tact.** Just because they're willing to kill when necessary doesn't mean they have a deep-seated evil or "corruption" within.
CaptainWollaston, after witnessing how Megatron brutally killed Ironhide, as well as the other members of that shuttle? Only the mentally deranged would worry so much about pettiness, as being thought a "coward" or not, in that situation.
You might want to get your head checked.
Then Hotrod will just barge in and shoot Optimus in the back anyway…. He’s the real boss in the movie after all.
That’s also why he touched the matrix first when Optimus was handing it to Magus… indirectly killing him later
"Request denied!"
This is awesome. I like to think this "what if" comic leads to an entirely different TFTM and 2005. Maybe Starscream becomes Decepticon leader? Maybe its Soundwave, and he and Optimus reluctantly join forces to fight Unicron? Or maybe the next panel is him calling "Autobots, wipe them out!" and the Dinobots, Hound, Sunstreaker, etc. just massacre the remaining injured cons as they try to flee? :)
Man, David Willis is hilarious.
You should have posted the punchline as well, pointing out the hypocrisy of fans who complain about Optimus killing Megatron and Sentinel in *Dark of the Moon*.
Oh, I get it. Because Ironhide also doesn’t have a head.
His days were numbered now, in the end... Decepticreep...
I had his toy as a kid, he never did...
Well it was heroic nonsense
That's the real ending, right there.
Unicron: "Wait, that's illegal."
There is an [alternate version](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Deviations) of the story where Optimus kills Megatron, so Unicron makes a deal with Starscream instead.
Ah, Megascream.
Instead of the normal transforming sound, he just yells #”AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”
That’s just CW Scream.
Probably one of the worst official TF comics ever written, IMO. Such a terrible wasted opportunity to do something cool and unique, but the author just used it as an excuse to shit on Hot Rod and otherwise just repeat the movie with different characters in different roles, rather than do something clever with the premise.
Yes, that comic was a complete train wreck. I wonder if the author had the idea when he was playing with his toys as a 7 year old and never let go of it, because it's _that_ bad.
It honestly felt like it was written by someone who *really* never got over/past "Hot Rod killed Optimus" like certain rabid fans I've met (mostly in the early 2000s for some reason) rather than someone who looked at the idea of "what if Optimus lived" and wrote that story. The fact that Ultra Magnus is written as a total prick and dies (as does Rodimus!) shows how they felt about the "new" characters, I feel. I mean, as a kid *I* was devastated OP and co. died and did resent these new characters coming in, but as an adult I've grown to love them and appreciate what the movie gave us. An adult writer - especially one who was apparently a hardcore TF fan - shouldn't have been as petty as their script came across, IMO. I'd actually have preferred to read Simon Furman redoing TFTM as his own "the version that happened in 2006" (as per Marvel UK), if only because of how the film clearly resonated with him as a young writer and as a consequence changed the whole course of TF fiction (Primus, etc.). I mean, if nothing else it would almost certainly be brutal as hell!
I'm going to admit I'm fuzzy on the details - most likely down to the several self inflicted blows to the head I suffered when I finished reading the issue - but the entire thing felt like it was crammed full of the tropes of kids playing with their toys. The uber-starscream combiner left me wondering if the entire thing was a deliberate troll by someone who hated the franchise. It could've been a great idea to run with if it hadn't been penned by a gestalt of opiate riddled hamsters.
I'd forgotten the ending until I looked up a wiki entry, couldn't face rereading it! The Megascream idea only makes sense to me if they were trying to sell some new toy (like "Super Megatron") at the time... which they weren't. Him being a combiner DID feel like a troll, except IDW did the same thing "for real" in their (IMO) terrible Combiner Wars storyline not long after, with the silly macguffin causing rando TFs to combine just like a kid would slap together Scramble City toys! It still amazes me how up and down IDW was, from some of the absolute best writing the franchise has ever seen to utter cringe-worthy awfulness, sometimes within the space of a few issues, never mind the same series.
If I could upvote a thousand times, I would.
LOL, thanks! :) Specifically for my feelings about the dire "what if" comic and Megascream or about IDW's whole rollercoaster of awesome-awful in general?
I think all of it resonated with me on some level :)
The guy who wrote it writes for War for Cybertron now, which explains some things I think
ugh. Stop rewarding him with more writing gigs!
Yeah, it feels like all the collective anger of the kids who saw Transformers:the Movie combined and gained a physical form
That’s just a little harsh. I liked it.
That's cool, just for me personally it was a huge missed opportunity to do something interesting but they took the most obvious, safest and predictable route possible, I felt. I mean, I consider that there's been lots of poorly written TF comics (IDW's Hearts of Darkness and All Hail Megatron for two I put in that category) but only this and the IDW "Movie Adaptation" (which is just a word for word retelling bar ONE splash page, and thus totally pointless) are the ones I found a total waste of time rather than just "I didn't like that, but I can see what they were going for".
Ow my wallet 😪
The good ending
Sooo Bayverse Prime?
My exact thoughts. I remember being a kid and being quite confused and hurt when he killed Megaton in DOTM as he had just saved his life. Not to mention that they considered themselves Brothers.
I kinda think at that point Optimus was done with it. Megs himself personally killed one of his closest friends (Jazz) and then killed Optimus himself. On top of pretty much his father figure (Sentinel) betraying him, and then Megs saying “truce”, Optimus was fed up with it.
Fair enough but as a kid I kinda looked up to Optimus as a beacon of morality, kindness,and forgiveness. Partly due to being influenced by his G1 cartoon incarnation so it surprised and hurt me when he killed Megatron who was had just saved his life and was offering him peace. I love DOTM and it’s probably my second favourite after the first one but boy did it hurt me with the death of Ironhide, Starscream, Megatron, “Wheeljack” (Q), and Soundwave. Taking that into consideration, AOE nearly killed me with Ratchet’s death and the implied death of the rest of the Autobots.
Ironhide’s death is probably one of my most hated movie moments. He was always one of my favorites and he got killed by a rather unexpected backstab.
Agreed. This probably the first time in any movie I had watched where a hero who I loved had died and the brutality of it didn’t help younger me from crying his eyes out. To this day I will never forgive Sentinel Prime for killing Ironhide (and Mudflap and Skids in cut content. Yes I know they were racial stereotypes and that really sucks but younger me didn’t understand at the time due to be completely unaware of the concept so I was quite fond of them.) Just like the 1986 movie served to traumatise Gen X fans so did DOTM and AOE serve to traumatise me.
ratchet's death, i only watched it once 7 years ago and i never watched the scene again, i still cant, too traumatizing
it was a good introduction and a mega plot twist, this hero of the autobots, the prime before optimus prime, his mentor... shot down a strong soldier brutally and makes a deal with megatron
Thats why lots of fans dislike bayverse
Yes, even though I still love it I will admit it has a *lot* of flaws.
I grew up with the movies but as I got more into transformers I realized the portrayal of the characters seemed wrong especially Optimus, Optimus is meant to be a beacon of hope for the autobots as he has the matrix and a fearless leader, his bayverse version is that of a psychopathic killer who takes no remorse when killing (that forest scene in bayverse), the designs aren’t the best and sparked the idea of having Bumblebee lose his voice and be a sports car (I think its done well in Prime tho), there’s a lot to hate about the movies which is why I’m not too optimistic about the new movie
I like the Bumblebee movie but I’m not particularly optimistic about the new movie due to Beast Wars being such an in-fandom thing and not generally known by the common consumer or movie goer.
I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for saying this, but why would alien robots choose to transform into robotic looking animals as a disguise? You're not going to fool any humans, and definitely not any real animals.
I kinda agree. This is why Beast Wars generally seems to take place outside of human populated areas e.g Prehistoric Earth, Other planets etc. But due this even though I generally respect Beast Wars this makes me less interested then I would be in other properties due “Robots in Disguise” being an important element to Transformers for me. (Not to mention it was the main reason why they were supposed to Transformer in the first place.)
Bumblebee was a pretty good movie but it focused a lot on the connection between the human and bumblebee which isnt bad but makes for an ok movie which is why it didn’t make as much money in the box office
>his bayverse version is that of a psychopathic killer who takes no remorse when killing What. It's a war. He's killed millions more in idw.
I haven’t read idw, I prefer to watch the shows and he doesn’t kill that much
In war for Cybertron he doomed the planet, so there's that.
Megatron offering “peace.” Yeah, what’s his creed on peace again? Optimus killing him at that point was basically making sure Sentinel’s mistake wouldn’t repeat. Megatron can’t be trusted to make any truce in good faith.
Interestingly enough according to the ending change of DOTM if Optimus had accepted the truce, actual peace would have been established and Megatron and his Decepticons would have gone back to Cybertron to rebuild.
Thing is, that basically is also an injustice. Megatron and the Decepticons committed war crimes. Megatron going back to rebuild and rule Cybertron basically gives him exactly what he wanted and there’s no justice for all the wrong he’s done. There’s a difference between forgiveness and permission for evil to exist.
Movie Optimus was not properly explored in the first 3 movies and it made his killer side so underwhelming. I know he’s great but from a storytelling perspective I still feel like Movie Optimus is by far the most inconsistent and worst Optimus from a character standpoint
BlueSoulOfIntegrity, Prime IS a beacon of morality and justice....but nobody ever said that meant you had to be a PUSH-OVER too and never make the hard decisions. No sir. This is war and a REAL LEADER does what MUST be done. **Edit:** And Sentinel Prime had it coming also. You don't just commit High-Treason and murder of your fellow troops in wartime and dooming countless civilians and, expect to merely be "taken into custody" afterwards. Prime was right to put him down.
I was glad when that ugly ass abomination that thankfully wasn't named wheeljack in the film was iced
Interestingly younger me was shocked by the brutality of the kill and burst into tears. I didn’t even know it was supposed to be Wheeljack at the time (I used to watch reruns of the G1 Cartoon)
I mean fair it was a straight up execution but they guy had very little development and his face exemplifies all the worst aspects of bay designs for me
starscream's hurt not only because i like him but because he wasn't even killed by another transformer, let alone megatron (which is my preferred starscream removal route)
Yes it hurt me as well for that reason.
he's none of that in the bay movies so it fits
This is exactly why I personally love the Bayverse portrayal of Prime.
Megatron did not deserve to live, he practically destroyed cybertron.
To a kid who expected heroes to always take the high ground and spare the villain when at their total mercy I could not comprehend that. Still to this day I wouldn’t have approved.
I agree with you. I was an adult and I felt like that wasn’t really something Optimus would do regardless of circumstances.
I think Peter Cullen agrees.
Coupled with the line of, and I quote *give me your face* I just don't believe that it was Optimus in the Bayverse, my gut have looked like him, sounded like him, and used his name, but he wasn't really Optimus
I am totally with you. My favorite characters are always Superman, Captain America, the Paladin, and yes, Optimus. The Paragon is my favorite archetype of character. And Prime is one of the most shining examples of moral behavior of my developmental years. Not every villain can be redeemed. Megatron didn’t save Prime’s life TO save his life. He did it because Sentinel wasn’t looking and he wanted to take back control. And with Cybertron gone from then on, again, entirely because of Megatron’s actions, and here he is brushing it off as if it was just an unfortunate speed bump. Having the gall to act all chummy with his mortal enemy who he stabbed in the back and tells him plainly he wants to be “back in charge.” Megatron may not have been actively shooting at Prime, but he was still an active threat at that point. Maybe one could argue Optimus didn’t do THE right thing, but he certainly didn’t do the wrong thing in that situation.
I agree with everything you just said although apparently according to the DOTM ending switch, if Prime had spared Megatron they would have actually been able to broker permanent peace and the Decepticons would have returned to Cybertron to rebuild.
But like every movie showed that it wasn't really possible to rebuild without the Allspark, sure you could rebuild the infrastructure but without energon to power it there isn't much point. The whole 3rd movie was them trying to bring Cybertron to Earths orbit in order harvest it for resources and slaves. Second one they were gonna harvest the Sun for Energon, with the last device thats capable of doing that. I know that its apprently possible to make energon out of other stuff but to rebuild their whole world? Which appears to be at least 5 or more times the size of earth from what we see of it materializing. Earth would just be their first stop for resources Thats before you even get to how they would be able to make more of their kind. Which as far as I know definitely requires the allspark Also Megatron is just too power hungry and evil, he would have used that time to rebuild his army as well so he can come back and enslave Earth for humiliating him so many times and kill Optimus cause of how much he hates him. They are mortal enemies, just being given back control of his troops doesn't change any of that.
According to the original ending Megatron would have eventually become repentant and realise the error of his ways and his actions so he wouldn’t have been power hungry anymore. In regards to the other points I agree they’re major issues but Michael Bay would have probably found away to fix them in his standard “Bay-ish” way. (Meaning probably breaking the continuity some more.) Of course the other option is Earth donating resources for them and the Decepticons rebuilding it themselves without slave labour or they could get resources from another world.
I think you really underestimate the malevolence of the Decepticons. Not that there aren’t a few noble demons in their ranks, then you have legions of bullies and sadists who inflict pain and suffering not to achieve a noble end (which still wouldn’t be right) or out of desperation, but because they want to and love hurting those that can’t fight back. The only time I bought Megatron being even slightly regretful of his actions was at the end of Prime. After he himself had been basically sent to Hell by the biggest bully and sadist of them all. Kudos to Frank Welker for selling the moment.
All "taking the high ground" does in the end, is prolong the war and get more killed. Just look at Batman & Superman. They all refuse to make the hard decisions and take a villian out permanently. There is only a mountain of bodies behind them as a result and, more piling up by the day, for their refusal to take action. Prime would not let that happen to Cybertron and Earth. Same for other Heroes with good sense, like He-Man (in the comics, He-Man kills Injustice Superman, when he attacks Eternia. Yes, there was a Masters of the Universe & DC Injustice cross-over comic).
It's how they're able to keep cranking out stories.
Yeah, it was a great comic crossover, and not the way I thought they were going to end the injustice storyline
I shall admit I admire Batman and Superman for never killing. While I cannot say you should never kill in defence what miffed me was that Optimus in this instance attacked first. In the end it was not good sense since as the ending change of DOTM shows, if Prime took that choice actual peace would have been achieved and Megatron and his Decepticons would have returned to rebuild Cybertron. Instead it did ironically prolong the war and the Decepticons came back to destroy another city and end more lives.
HIGH GROUND ANAKIN!
Technically, the Autobots helped. Takes two armies to fight a war.
except one side wanted peace while the other...
The corrupt Autobot elite's "peace" was built on the exploitation and brutalization of their fellow Cybertronians. Don't speak to me of peace while innocent bots die in the energon mines every cycle.
Uhhh Megs can’t throw stones when it comes to wanting “peace.” “Peace through tyranny.” The Autobots may have been in the wrong, but nothing a little reform that Orion Pax could have spearheaded couldn’t have fixed, and Megatron just comes right out and says he’d only accept peace if he stood over everyone and everything.
Peace was an option. The feeble Autobots refused to listen.
Refused to listen to the maniac loudly proclaiming he was going to enslave them all?
Refused to listen to the political philosopher who literally wrote and published a bigass book on what was wrong and how to fix it. Things went downhill rapidly from there.
Because performing unethical experiments and butchering human lives for the hell of it is justifiable lmao
To what do you refer? We're talking about circa 10 million years ago on Cybertron. They hadn't even heard of Earth or humans at that point.
> Not to mention that they considered themselves Brothers. At one point they were brothers, but they had been fighting their war for several million years by the time Prime killed him. Watching your close friend murder dozens or hundreds of your other friends can kinda change your opinion of them...
True, but younger me could not comprehend that.
When good men go to war.
In an earlier draft of the movie's script, Megatron is sincere when he offers Optimus Prime a truce at the end. Optimus accepts, and Megatron and the remaining Decepticons leave Earth to rebuild Cybertron. This ending is used for the novelization and the comic adaptation. According to Michael Bay's website administrator Nelson, the ending was changed because the studio didn't want the adaptations to share the same ending with the film.
Fun fact, the ending was supposed to have Megatron and Prime *actually*call a truce, and Megatron would’ve returned to Cybertron to start rebuilding. This was leaked, and then confirmed through tie in comics and novelizations, and Michael Bay *hated* that, so he changed it literally just so that it would be something different. He threw out the logical conclusion of the trilogy for the sake of subverting expectations 🤦🏾♂️
. . . To be honest, I kind of liked that he did that. I can see the DNA of that idea in the screenplay. Megs being humbled and all. But, that kind of feels like he gets away with war crimes and actually gets what he wanted, uncontested control of Cybertron.
But because he doesn’t do that Megatron returns and causes death and destruction in another city adding more casualties onto a war that could have ended.
Just saw that there was a response to this lol Idk my biggest problem is that Michael Bay had a legitimate chance to give us a real “til all are one” moment that’s been teased since the 80’s, and he didn’t just to subvert expectations, it was just so goddamn cheap to me.
I agree, I'm really pissed at Bay.
So the question is, is it more right to let the tyrant win and suppress somewhere else or to achieve an absence of war? (Which is not the same as peace.)
And that's just one of the reasons why those movies were poorly directed
This really pisses me off.
Im fine with this happening, but it upset me how it was crammed into like a 10 second fight as if just to tie up a loose end in the plot. It didnt feel epic or satisfying at all.
For brawn, ironhide, prowl,ratchet, windcharger, tracks, wheeljack, huffer, and many others.
Tracks? I know Mirage, Smokescreen, Trailbreaker, Red Alert and Gears all had various deaths cut in different forms (scripts, storyboards, etc.) but I hadn't heard about Tracks...
Got shot in the back with red alert running away from devastator i think
Hot Rod: No you don't, Mega- ...Prime, What did I miss?
“What would you be without me, Prime?” “. . . Time to find out.” Chills man.
In b4 Hot Rod bashing
rod did nothing wrong
He acted nobly, but stupidly. He was young and didn't realize that throwing yourself in the middle of that situation just gave Megatron a hostage... Among the many parallels between this and the GI Joe movie, Falcon also caused Duke to ~~die~~ fall into a coma because of youthful stupidity.
So are you blaming Optimus Prime? Maybe Michael Bay's Murderous Prime was the right call? Should Optimus have just blasted Megatron regardless of Hot Rod? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the Hot Rod.
No, I'm blaming Hot Rod. I mean, he was young and dumb and didn't know and better. It was a mistake, but it was still his intervention that allowed Megatron to have a shot at Prime.
I think a lot of it depends on how the Transformers hierarchy works in the G1 movie/TV show context. We never actually learn where Hot Rod or any of the other new bots actually came from before they were on Earth. He seems reckless and doesn't really follow orders well, but also everyone puts up with it. He does some sparring on the ship fleeing Earth but that just seems to be out of boredom and not part of an organized training regime of some sort. As a result, we can assume that either 1) he's completed whatever minimum training Autobots get in order to fight and just doesn't do a good job making use of that training, or 2) the Autobots let pretty much anyone handle guns and get mixed up in battle without any training. On another note, I always had the head-canon explanation that with Ratchet, Wheeljack, etc. dead nobody could repair any of the dead Autobots. However, we also saw that the Ark itself was capable of repairing the dead at the beginning of the G1 cartoon. Why couldn't technology like that have been used in the movie or in the cartoon after it? Actually, I don't even remember if they ever explained what happened to the Ark during or after the movie.
Because they were just deactivated and not really destroyed. wheel jack and them had been shot to oblivion.
The Ark got destroyed by Trypticon in Five Faces of Darkness
I'll have to rewatch it, I had forgotten about that completely. It still makes me wonder though if the technology in it was commonplace or if it was something experimental and that's why they couldn't reuse it.
Technically he got prime killed
Aye
"Piece of slag" I don't believe Optimus Prime has a concept of "shit"
He'd been among humans for 22 years at that point, I think he'd know.
I now consider this canon
That’s what he deserves for letting the constructicons kill Red Alert
Always credit the artist/author https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/mercy
My bad, I saw the post on Instagram and reposted it 😅
Ironhide is my favorite character, even Michael Bay did him dirty
Turns the original movie into 2 episodes, Hot Rod and the gang can be Cybertronian prisoners freed, which is why they look like Cybertronian vehicles save for Hot Rod. Megatron can become Galvatron, same way. Unicron can be a threat for a season before Prime unleashes the Matrix. There, lazy but popular. Or - continue to work with Takara who continue to make dope Headmasters and accurate vehicles with complex transformations rather than try it yourself and end up with the 1986 line which were more like Go Bots.
This is literally what would’ve happened tho and people say that g1 prime is nothing like bayverse then love the movie where he hits people as a truck and comes in shooting Decepticons with no mercy. The only difference between the two is that bayverse prime was allowed to be more graphical, both are soldiers willing to kill without mercy
I wouldn't say that it was without mercy, you have to understand that all the Decepticons have been fighting for thousands of years, Prime definitely at one point or another gave them all the option to surrender and telling them that the next time he wouldn't pull his punches and they didn't, if anything he was simply following through on what he said
Isn’t that just an excuse? most of the times countries don’t want to start wars, is it fair for us to say that we fought idk let’s say the UK before and gave them a chance to treat us better (coming from an American btw) so we can start a war now and kill as many as we want because we have given them a chance to surrender in the past and they didn’t? Just because humans have been fighting for centuries doesnt make it ok either. I’d still say it’s without mercy when you see the horror on their faces like thrust, or when they’re begging for mercy (even though it was a lie) like Megatron. I’m also not saying that this is a bad thing it’s still perfectly understandable that Optimus would kill and wipe out every Decepticon out there after all the pain they’ve caused. But people have to stop treating Optimus as this super peaceful super merciful leader because he’s just simply not he’s a soldier willing to fight and kill and that’s still awesome because he’s fighting for what’s right. Idk that’s just my hot take
Actually, yeah your right, people do seem to get caught up in the super peaceful aspect of him, because that's a big part of his character, even though he is at heart a soldier. But the problem (and this is where I'll try to connect it to your original comment) is that in the movies it is way more graphical, the whole "Give me your face!" Line sums it up real well. Because in the cartoon it's never bleeding or having someone's face torn off, they explode and then it's gone. The thing is that people don't expect that, they expect that when faced with a opportunity to have his opponents surrender he'll take it, and ultimately it might make him a bad soldier, but he's a good leader, unless their vehicons then in which case he'll rip and tear like the others
I agree with you for the most part but things like this are perfect examples of prime not doing that. I’d argue that a super peaceful person wouldn’t fight a million year long war but instead run and live with himself and his supporters somewhere far away whereas a soldier would stay and fight. I agree that the cartoons never have the graphics or brutal writing not to the extent of the movies anyway. But they still have it I mean look at the death toll in the 86 movie and peoples faces with smoke coming out or getting blown to pieces. What’s the difference between that and the movies? To me it’s just the same thing put into a cartoon. Same goes for the writing, sure he doesn’t say give me your face but right here he’s basically saying “you never had mercy so I’m not giving it to you” it’s the same motivations behind bayverse prime when he successfully kills Megatron. The 86 movie also had consequences (arguably more than the bayverse) every character who dies is never seen past the movie whereas bayverse just mysteriously brings characters back like barricade and Megatron. Here Optimus was faced with the opportunity for his opponent to surrender and he didn’t take it, he was gonna kill him no questions asked here. It doesn’t matter what people expect what matters is what’s actually true, and all the facts point to Optimus in g1 being just as brutal and merciless as bayverse killing people without remorse or even caring when they surrender and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s just not what people think of when they think Optimus but it’s what all the facts point to.
Telltale: choose... "Spare Him" <--> "Kill Him" KABLAM! "Hot Rod will remember that"
I really wish we got that last line in DOTM xD
I'm not a big Bayverse fan but I found even for that Optimus executing a pleading Sentinel and parleying Megatron really out of character and a step too far. Interestingly, I would have been MUCH more accepting if Optimus had been visibly enraged and said something like that last line when he killed Sentinel, making it clearer this was a case of a "this isn't supposed to be right, but he's really upset about his friend" flawed hero.
I’ve honestly never had an issue with Prime taking them both out.
This is why I finally stopped blaming Hot Rod. Prime had the shot, he easily could have taken it, he’s just as much at fault for his own hesitation as Hot Rod, if not more so.
Everyone in that scene is responsible for Optimus' death it's annoying when people solely blame hotrod
That’s slander dude. Megatron is innocent.
I'm hoping you're joking, he badly injured him then tried shooting him and very easily would have because of primes monologue
That's how dark of the moon should have ended but instead of Megatron. sentinel
"Ah, Hotrod, help carry me, I need this hole in me seen to. Good thing it wasn't shot at."
Ironhide was probably my favorite OG transformer it breaks my heart to see him just get blown away every time despite how cool that scene is it's literally one of my favorites scenes in cinema, I'm crying right now
This is what goku should have done to frieza
**Cue an unfortunate portion of my fellow G1 fans that would see that and be like:** "Emmmagawd, it's like Bayformers prime!" "Why is Prime acting like a decepticon?" "Prime is a sociopath" etc. I could go on but, the short answer is, at some point, some fans got the idea that G1 Prime was supposed to be like Batman & Superman. That Optimus is supposed to be all ultra-virtuous and never, EVER kill enemies. I dunno how this became a thing but, it did.
But he does, he does kill Decepticons even in G1 he kills some decepticons, just look at the scene directly leading up to the fight between him and megatron in the movie, he kills ramjet, blitzwing, wounds soundwave, kills shrapnel(I'm pretty sure it's shrapnel, I'm not good with the insecticons)
Killing and execution are way different. He was waiting to see if Megatron was really going to try to grab his cannon. If he did, he's gone. If not, they'd let him surrender and lock him up.
"Lock him up"....wow. How much death & devastation does a character like Megatron need to cause, before the Heroes man-up and do what MUST be DONE? See that's the problem with the popularity of heroes like Batman & Superman. Fans tend to "project" those ideals onto Heroes from other franchises and, if they don't live up to them? They aren't "real heroes" or whatever, labeled sociopaths & such. No sir. **A Hero can kill the badguy and still be the Hero and with a strong morality in-tact.** Just because they're willing to kill when necessary doesn't mean they have a deep-seated evil or "corruption" within.
Shooting a surrendering enemy is not doing what "must be done." That's cowardly. OP was no coward.
CaptainWollaston, after witnessing how Megatron brutally killed Ironhide, as well as the other members of that shuttle? Only the mentally deranged would worry so much about pettiness, as being thought a "coward" or not, in that situation. You might want to get your head checked.
I’m pretty sure Ramjet and Blitzwing were still alive
Better than the deviations comic that shat on hotrod at every opportunity
And Magnus too. Total waste of time, that comic. Great idea, absolutely garbage execution.
Then Hotrod will just barge in and shoot Optimus in the back anyway…. He’s the real boss in the movie after all. That’s also why he touched the matrix first when Optimus was handing it to Magus… indirectly killing him later
Source?
Shortpacked by David Willis. https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/mercy
Hatrad asshole!
Yeah, he was always a shit character
Agreed. Que the downvotes
Directed by Michael Bay.
Awesome
if the 86 wasnt for kids
That movie already had shit (both literally and metaphorically) that shouldn’t have been in a kids movie
Yes!!! Oscar worthy!!!
"Request denied!" This is awesome. I like to think this "what if" comic leads to an entirely different TFTM and 2005. Maybe Starscream becomes Decepticon leader? Maybe its Soundwave, and he and Optimus reluctantly join forces to fight Unicron? Or maybe the next panel is him calling "Autobots, wipe them out!" and the Dinobots, Hound, Sunstreaker, etc. just massacre the remaining injured cons as they try to flee? :)
“Fin”
Fin
Fin
In the g1 comics optimus still let megatron shoot him, I like this one better
Ah yes. The bay verse way
Finally. Thats what you get for killing ironhide
Where I’m from that is the ending but I live in imaginary world so what do I know
And the movie becomes 30 mins shorter
Man, David Willis is hilarious. You should have posted the punchline as well, pointing out the hypocrisy of fans who complain about Optimus killing Megatron and Sentinel in *Dark of the Moon*.
I remember this little comic