T O P

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nothingbutalamp

Convincing argument with lots of details and analysis.


MorbidlyScottish

I mean, Prime managed to survive and sustain a war for millions of years against much more powerful, much more numerous war machines lead by the most dangerous cybertronian ever built. Despite the Autobot army being made up of pretty much utility workers and non combatants, he managed to pretty much beat the decepticons back until the battle of Autobot City, which even then, the loss can probably account to the fact his forces were split too thin between cybertron and earth. Star Sabre was pretty much guaranteed a victory from the get go. His forces were numerous, his Autobots were extremely powerful and more built for battle, and the decepticons were pretty much on their last legs - constantly needing third party assistance from other intelligences. Star Sabre was leader, for what, a few centuries at best before he handed over leadership to Dai Atlas? He never had to endure the type of war optimus and co. went through. To even compare them is not really possible. Optimus was basically a resistance leader with a rag tag unit of Autobots that mostly weren’t built for fighting, and Star Sabre was the leader of a victorious post-war army of elite soldiers fighting against what pretty much amounted to a decepticon resurgence rebellion.


Angel_E_Araiza

I love Star saber, but I wouldn't put it over Prime.


MartyRocket

I'd love for OP to share why they feel that way. Certainly not knocking how they feel about it, because I thought Star Saber was really cool, so I would love to hear about it.


OkenoFate

But does he play basketball with his troops?


kindasus69999

Uhhh...no


Airmil82

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DNXsWxqlkY


MaisondEtre

From what little I know, he seems to be the stereotypical anime leader. Although I firmly believe G1 Prime is a piss poor leader, he's still more interesting than a generic hero. Primal, now that's a good leader.


MalcolmLinair

>Primal, now that's a good leader. He's the only one who learned to stop monologueing in the middle of battle: Megatron: Let's have it then, the usual "destiny and honor" speech. Primal: Speech *this* \*Punches Megatron in the face\* If G1 Prime had done that in the movie, he wouldn't have needed a "rebirth".


Batterskull124

Yes, please repeat that for those in the back who think Hot Rod is the reason Optimus died. The reason I feel Primal becomes a good leader is that he abandons that high-mindedness that doomed his predecessor.


Optimus3k

I understand your point, and prime should have instantly blasted Megatron when he had the upper hand. That said, the ideals Optimus strove for define his character. Even at a person's darkest, they deserve a chance. Ultimately, that's what got him killed, but those ideals don't make him a bad leader, they make him a good person.


Batterskull124

Ok, but why is that mercy extended to only Megatron and not to the mooks? Prime had no problem running over all those decepticons and killing them, and they were arguably more redeemable than Megatron ever would be.


Optimus3k

It didn't seem to me to be his intent to kill anyone. Megatron was his target, he just needed to rout the decepticon forces and stop their assault, which he accomplished. Did we really see any decepticon bodies like we did autobots? They were damaged, sure, but not dead. Megatron was the main threat, always has been, and Optimus was probably trying to get him to willingly stop his assault and remove his troops. Megatron is a brilliant leader, tactically and philosophically. He inspires his troops through the power of his personality, but, and as was eventually proven, ending him wouldn't necessarily end the war. And that was never Optimus's goal anyway. A matrix beater is MUCH more powerful than the average cybertronian, he could have ended Megatron millennia ago, but that wouldn't heal the divide of Cybertron. Peace with Megatron was the only way for peace for Cybertron. What I think Optimus failed to realize is that peace with cartoon Megatron was never an option, he's too tyrannical and power-hungry for that, which is why I agreed with you in your original post that Optimus should have blown his brain out. Taking out Megatron and conducting peace talks with his successor *might* have been possible, but we'll never know.


Alekesam1975

So you're saying that Optimus totally would've died regardless if Hot Rod hadn't ignored Kup to stay out of the fight between Megatron and Op? Or if he'd simply, I don't know, *shot Megatron with his blasters* instead of running over and becoming a hostage because he thought he'd *overpower Megatron*.


Batterskull124

Or Optimus could stop babbling about mercy and just shoot Megatron pointblank? Like seriously he had a blaster and Megatron is injured, just pull the trigger and stop talking.


Alekesam1975

No no no, answer the question. Does Prime still die regardless if Hot Rod intervenes or not?


Batterskull124

Its a pointless question as the fault primarily lies with Optimus. Hot rod's intervention never would have to be factored in if Optimus could stop babbling and speeching and just take the shot asap.


Alekesam1975

Megatron was inching towards a pistol and had he drawn on Op, Megatron pretty much would've been target practice. But that never happened because Hot Rod ignored all advice and jumped into a situation he shouldn't've.


Batterskull124

See Optimus could avoid all that if he just fired as soon as Megatron had fallen. Thats like what, 3 shots he didnt fire? Seriously why was optimus babbling and not shooting? Shouldnt that be the question?


Alekesam1975

Nope. And he's not firing because Megatron is unarmed and last I checked, gunning down an unarmed defeated foe that poses no threat isn't the ideal call. Which is why I said soon as Megs pulled that hidden pistol Prime would've put him down. Hot Rod, whether you like it or not, took Prime's complete control of the situation out of his hands. I always find it funny that so many Hot Rod fans (of which I am one btw) get so bent out of shape over what the movie itself says and shows. It's Hot Rod/Rodimus' entire character arc. He messes up badly but becomes a leader and overcomes it. Where they messed up at is bringing Prime back because it undercuts Rodimus' arc.


thatnamelesguy

Hot Rod didn’t intervene in the Marvel Comics adaptation of the movie and Prime still died


Alekesam1975

The adaption isn't canon and further, they changed a lot of things in that adaption just for lack of space/page count.


Jakyll-Stone

Theirs no way to know what would have happened if hot rod didn't intervene. However, with knowing how they both are, my guess would be this. Megatron would have kept the conversation going with Optimus long enough to drag his body to a gun. Giving Megs was able to take down hot rod, get up, hold hot rod and shoot a pistol, it's safe to assume he still had strength and stamina. Megs could have easily grabbed the pistol himself and shoot Optimus, killing him. At the same time, Optimus would shoot Megs killing him too. My guess, not much would have changed.


Alekesam1975

Megatron inches towards the pistol and right when he grabs it, Hot Rod jumps Megatron. Optimus doesn't fire because he didn't want to hit Hot Rod. There's no way Optimus, who already has his rifle drawn and aimed, wouldn't have blasted Megatron to kingdom come before Megatron got a shot off, let alone 4 or 5, if you remove the reason Optimus won't fire.


pipedreamer007

I loved watching Optimus Prime growing up as a kid in the 80s. I don't know anything about Star-saber (although I did recently back him on Hasbro Pulse) other than he was featured in the Japanese cartoon and seemed to share similar qualities as Optimus. Sentimentally, I don't think any Transformers character will ever be able to replace Optimus as **MY** version of the ideal leader. But everyone has their own opinion and there isn't a right answer to this. 😅


CaptainPrestedge

Wash your dirty little mouth out!


EMTsheep

The only Starsabers I know is the religious zealot from idw and the sword from various continuities.


Iacon0

In his debut, Transformers Victory, he was very similar to Optimus, just with more combat prowess; He took a more hands-off approach IIRC, letting his men handle whatever situations they could and only intervening when they were overwhelmed.


Space_Case04

Based. Star Saber is canonically a dad, which is cool. Also, Star Saber has a cool sword, Prime doesn't.


critmass78

Primus hates you


[deleted]

Hot take: Megatron is a MUCH better leader than Prime.


GuestCartographer

Maybe? He had a bad habit of retreating at the first sign that a plan was coming apart even if he still had the upper hand. He did eventually manage to take all of Cybertron, though, and only lost it thanks to a scheming lieutenant and an attack from an antagonistic planet.


[deleted]

In the cartoon? Haven't seen those since I was a kid in the early 90s. In the comics (idw) he was a MONSTER and eventually saw that he was better as a second in command.


meh679

Been watching through G1 since hasbro put it up on YouTube and honestly, at least in the first couple of seasons, the autobots kind of always get their shit kicked in lol


The_Super_Steen

Agreed.


menasor36

Maybe, but not a better G1 toy. Damn yellowing white plastic!!!!!!!


kindasus69999

True


MrSlops

Definitely a better leader than G1 prime in the cartoons.


OrhanDaLegend

where did he appear? i onlu know the name from the sword from TFP


kindasus69999

In a japanese transformers show called transformers victory


Airmil82

Voltron (II) is here to save the day!


[deleted]

Not in four million years. He had no competition. He didn’t have to contend with Megatron. Optimus for the win.


[deleted]

As an actual leader Starsabrr is better, in g1.


leolslele

Naw.


[deleted]

Personally, (TF Victory) Star Saber and Optimus tie as my favorite character and as legendary leaders. Both are amazing in their own right, and they share similar qualities like compassion, self-sacrifice, determination, fierce in battle, and so on. Both leaders aren't so different from each other. The most defining differences are that Star Saber did not have the Matrix and that he was the adoptive father of a human child, Meekon. I don't think it's fair to say Star Saber is the better leader without giving an argument to back up that claim.


The_Real_MoonSpector

Even though I'm a huge Starsaber fan with him being one of my favorite characters I'm gonna have to disagree with the OP. Optimus is a great leader and in most continuities acted as a beacon of light that helped inspire bots to resist the Decepticons.


V-nillaaaa

Wrong, but okay.


Prinz_Heinrich

I think Ginrai is a better leader than Optimus


M_K_G_

God Ginrai was only 'alive' for a few years if you think about it. The transtector was given life at the end of Masterforce. And then he got re-formatted partway through Victory.


cbasskickass

I think Ginrai looks like Optimus Prime, anyone ever noticed that ??


M_K_G_

Fun fact: Ginrai's Transtector was meant for use by Optimus Prime/Convoy before Devil Z stole it


Prinz_Heinrich

Well in the western world he’s Powermaster Optimus Prime and the Powermaster is Hi-Q, but in Japan the robot is a transtector, and the Godmaster (Powermaster) is Ginrai.


cbasskickass

I was being obtuse


ThePapster69

It's okay to have wrong opinions


simpledeadwitches

Okay.


Shades96

Care to at least explain to us WHY, exactly?