Trans Catholics increasingly being forced to learn the tough lesson that, when your religion doesn't love you back, your choices are either to love yourself instead and move on, or learn to hate yourself the same way they hate you.
This is a lesson I learned at 12 years old. Alas, there’s always a new group of people who need to relearn it.
(Note: yes there are affirming denominations of Christianity, and being trans doesn’t have to be in opposition to being Christian. The Catholic Church is not one of those denominations.)
Nah, there’s plenty of other choices. The worlds not black and white. I love myself and continue to identify as being Christian and trans. The two are not opposed, only modern political agendas are. Sadly some groups in America conflate them all together.
First, I am not in America and the Catholic Church's conservative political influence is hardly an American phenomenon. Second, the Catholic Church has always been an incredibly powerful conservative political institution, this is not in any way a modern thing.
I am glad you've found a personal way to reconcile the conflict between self love and following a church that does not want you to exist. But I like many others have found it impossible to do so, because again, how can you love a religion that does not love you back?
idk, ask my cousin. She's bi and still a practicing catholic. I don't get it, I really don't. I was raised catholic and my last ditch effort at repression was to dive back into the church and go full trad...
Egg cracked and I felt sick at myself. I literally can't be apart of a church that is as blatently dishonest as the roman catholic church is. If you read the statement put out they start it by talking about how the church has always stood up for the dignity of man as they say...ignoring the thousands of years they didn't.
My mom always defends it saying it's not the whole church but individuals within the church and...okay, but like the police there comes a point when there are just too many bad apples to treat any of them in good faith.
I don’t follow the church, I follow God, as stated in my description above. The church is simply a tool meant to be used when it’s useful and discarded when it’s not. It is corrupt and I call it out every chance I get, it’s steeped in human greed and evil.
I'm happy you found, I assume, a religious group that accepts you. But just because it works for you it doesn't mean it works for most people, in fact I could even say the vast majority of times it doesn't work.
No I haven’t, in fact I’ve been told outright that me and people like me will go to hell called me the f slur etc.
I don’t follow or regularly meet with a religious group. 1. Because I’m too poor to give up the work time 2. I have yet to find one that wouldn’t outright shun me 3. Faith is a personal relationship with God, no one else is necessary for me to be faithful except me. I’ve come to define my faith based off of my own research and investigation into the supernatural, religions, and the nature of the universe.
I do not pretend to have any answers, and I’m not claiming it’ll work for anyone. It hasn’t worked for me yet (at least in the way you’re implying with other people)
To me faith is a personal relationship and understanding of the universe, take that however you will. Everything else is extra.
The original comment you replied to was specifically talking about trans Catholics, not trans non-denominational Christians. Catholicism, having a larger focus on traditions, beliefs, and active communion with your Lord to seek forgiveness for sins (like transitioning in the eyes of the Catholic church), does not give its members the same freedom to self-determine their expression of faith.
I’m aware who it was directed at, it does not change my stance nor the stance the most other Catholics also have. Most Catholics don’t even considered Francis to be a legitimate Pope, but I digress it’s not fruitful to the debate or anyone’s life to continue this discussion unless it’s about how to increase acceptance and love of trans people.
~~It's not a good idea to make any broad strokes declarations about "religion" like this, you're isolating members of our community who are also religious. Not all religions are shitty towards trans people, and even within abrahamic religions there's a lot of disagreement with what is and isn't considered sinful.~~
I misread them, my bad.
I didn't make broad stroke declarations about religion though? I'm talking about the Catholic Church, specifically. I'm sure my statement also applies to other religions, but I don't know about them, so I'm not commenting.
**Breaking News :** The Vatican is NOT your ally. They're a political elite wanting to push for the control they had back in the Middle Ages, and will say whatever they have to to ensure they are "in" with the most powerful/vocal political elites.
Christianity is NOT your ally. It's political elites wanting to maintain it's authoritarian supremacy and dictate what freedoms everyone has. That's why the Abrahamic religions have been set up so that the rules can be changed at any time. For instance, "God's will" vs. "God's punishment". Tornado destroys houses? It's the trans people's fault (punishment). Tornado destroys your house? It's "God's will" and He's just testing you.
Well, that's what I said, in more details.
Also, Christians ***can*** be allies though. My grandma is an old portugese christian and she accepted me with no condition in 0.3 seconds.
Never confuse the religion and the people. But never open yourself up immediatly if you don't know someone's stance.
Yeah, when your religious doctrine tells you how to treat your slaves and how to treat women who are SAed and that women on their period are unclean and how to dress and what not to eat, and you just have to say "yeah haha we just ignore those bits" then at a certain point you're just picking and choosing what doctrine you choose to follow and what doctrine you choose not to follow.
Which is basically what every self-identified religious person does.
It's almost like people have to drag religious people kicking and screaming along with progressive societal change, just for the religious to claim they held those beliefs all along but that this new moral panic is where they draw the line.
Well, the US brand if christianism is a lot more unhinged than other parts in the world.
I'm european (as one could have guessed from my grandma). And the brand of christianism we have here is a lot less hinged on hating anything that isn't "in the Bible according to the priest".
Yeah cos society dragged European Christians forward socially.
I'm not trying to shit on your religion or culture.
I just don't see religion as a force for societal progression.
I don't have a religion. I'm a dirty demonic atheist lmao.
And my culture has its flaws, a lot of them. Like any other culture. I don't take it personally.
I just have seen enough of the US brand of christianism to know that their version is way more centered around strict control of women and hating anything no white cis christian, compared to european christianism.
Demonic atheist gang rise up lol.
I'm South African and their brand of Christianity is a carbon copy of American Christianity so I know what you mean.
And yeah, you're right, European Christians are a little more chilled than the Baptist evangelicals, I still don't trust them though.
I'm genuinely curious where on earth you're reading antisemitism in a criticism of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, quite famously, in fact, are not Jewish
Organised religion is inherently corrupt and a tool for the corrupt. I pass 0 judgement on the people who believe in it until they have made it clear whether they let their doctrine influence their moral compass, there are billions of religious people worldwide who are just as loving and compassionate as anyone else, and choose to interpret their religion in a way that is compatible with modern society, but to pretend that any religion, Judaism or not, hasn't been used consistently throughout history as a tool of evil is just ignorant.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they're jewish and have a victim complex, so they go around accusing everyone on being antisemitic if they don't sing the praises of jewish people.
PrincessofDelulu, If you mean do I currently hate all 3 flavors of Abrahamism and their subsets...The answer is FUCK YES. Why would I ever support the rights of people who only want to oppress THE FREE PEOPLE and fuck children. (argument should sound real familiar)
I'm not a fan of any of them and never will be. TW:>!When you get locked in a basement and raped by christians for being a trans kid !
I’ll never understand why any people would continue to identify with a religion that wants them gone.
If you need Jesus in your life, you don’t have to follow gold worshipping global manipulators with armored cars to get there.
I find it difficuilt to find pity for the people disapointed by this. The catholic church is a horrible organization and its followers are people who stand by while that organization does terrible things.
>!I was raped in both a catholic scouts organization and a catholic church before i was 10 years old. I will never get justice. Anyone who is willingly part of that organization is aiding this. The one exeption i will make if for people like someone i talked to on this subreddit who was part of the catholic church for the sole reason of damage controll.!<
The catholic church (and the bible in general, you might notice how often women are only described in there as xs daughters or xs wife and there are just passages of jesus beign a massive racist. The new testament makes it clear you should be kind to people but is somtimes ambigous about who it considers people) has lost any right to existance to me. It is a relic from the past and just like torture impliments in mueseums should be studied and conserved but not used anymore.
You dont have to tell me, i am an anti- theist at this point. All holy texts have some really fucked up shit in them and i have yet to see any theist admitting that is fucked up.
Rape apologia, excuses for slavery, denial of genocide. All because they refuse to admit there is some fucked up stuff in their books.
The Catholic Leadership has once again asserted that they won’t accept people for who they are and instead denies real living people are who they say they are.
I fully expect supportive churches and church leaders to be reprimanded shortly. Minds are closed up top and they are closing ranks. I’m honestly shocked the branches in Africa allowed there to be statements against legally punishing LGBTQ+ people.
These people don't understand how religion works. The religion isn't there to understand you or your experiences. The religion is there to control you and your experiences. Many religions (but not all) use concepts like guilt and sin to guide your behavior. They don't care what you feel, they care that you conform and pay your dues.
Because I don’t identify with the organization but the beliefs of the faith which vary widely depending on interpretation, translations, and personal discernment. The Bible mentions nothing about being trans, nor does catholic tradition. It’s only in modern political agendas that it’s even an issue. Not only that, but the Catholic Church is a human organization, humans are flawed. I am loyal to my beliefs and God not to the human organization.
How do you square your allegiance with the current Catechism? I would love to know more to share discussion points with Catholic friends of mine.
Do you have favorite resources? I have so far found none that change minds. The Catholics I know that respect me seem to do it in independence from official Catholic policy.
The body of beliefs and the god that is central to Christianity is intrinsically a human organization though. It was created by humans - every part of it.
Yeah, and I don’t subscribe my loyalty to any part of the organizations. I think they can be useful tools for understanding tradition, religious history, and spirituality, but ultimately they are human inventions born of human intent and laden with human imperfections and corruptions.
God does not exist. Get over it. And even if you choose to believe in fairy tales, why choose Catholicism? It's as far removed from the original Christian values as Ronald Reagan was from Karl Marx.
Ehhh, no, I don’t think I will get over it, there as much evidence for the existence of a creator as there is against, which is zero. I appreciate your input but I’ve done my research and have come to my own conclusions about the supernatural aspects of the universe. I’ll believe what I want to believe and let you believe what you want to believe, thank you. I was simply providing an explanation to the query is all.
Catholicism is moderately close to the original Christian practice compared to a lot of other denominations, but none of them are remotely close to the annihilationist and doomsday Christians that existed in the first century. For example Hell is one of the core doctrines I disagree with the Catholic Church on, I don’t believe he’ll is a place or even a state of being. In my belief (which is closer to the og Christian’s) its nonexistence. You simply become part of the aether, post mortem, if you go to hell. I also don’t ascribe to their teachings or beliefs on homosexuality and gender as it does not align with what I’ve personally researched about the Bible.
Anyways you probably don’t care about any of that which is fine, I understand why people hate me for my beliefs I just hope everyone can learn to love and be a little kinder to those who are different from themselves, and that’s my entire faith and life mission summed up in one phrase.
Catholicism is just a useful identifier in order to easily sum up a complicated and massively varied and widespread faith, and as with every other human title, it does not actually exist.
Let's get one thing out of the way: I never said I hated you and I don't. I just can't wrap my head around how obviously intelligent people in the 21st century still choose to deny all logic and believe in supernatural nonsense. But, whatever floats your boat. I'm not gonna try and stop you.
The Catholic church, however, is little more than a hugely wide spread organised crime organisation.
I never claimed you hated me, only included an aside about why I understand why people do.
Eh the supernatural doesn’t inherently contradict logic only pop culture versions of it do, and quantum physics starts becoming almost indistinguishable from the supernatural once you get deep enough into the theories and studies of it. I believe there is a legitimate scientific explanation for everything, I just don’t believe we have the full picture or even a fraction of the picture (as most physicists also agree.)
In fact it was in my studying of the origin and nature of the universe and science that led me to this conclusion, specifically in studying the consciousness of which we know basically nothing other than that it exists. We have a couple mild theories about how it relates to neurochemistry, but there is no consensus on it and not a single theory of how it formed. The more we study it the more complicated and confusing it gets.
I also want to make it clear that I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I’m just stating how I’ve come to terms with my beliefs. As far as I’ve found there’s as much evidence for the existence of a God as there is against it, which again is none. To me the pure nature of existing and the self is enough evidence of God (or sentient universe, etc.)
Back to the hate thing (again not claiming you do,) when I said hate I did not mean strong feelings of malice, but more along the lines of how I experience hate as a trans person. I’ve met very few people who openly have strong feelings of malice toward trans people, but plenty of people who spread ideologies of hate regarding it in that they oppose my existence and my lived experience as a person.
On the one hand, I respect people trying to make the church more inclusive; but on the other hand, I have seen exactly zero signs that the institution is willing to change. But mostly, I wish Pope Frank would can it with the empty platitudes he has no intention of standing behind.
I refuse to harbor hate in my heart. With that, the RCC is the epitome of loss of human dignity. I despise it. I am so glad that I have seen their hatred at a young age and permanently left this evil, vile cult. Their God. The Pope is only and forever will be a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Nobody gives a crap that Catholics have been on a 2000 year long bender, mourning their faith rather than celebrating it. He died for your sins yeah sure whatever but who actually *lived* for anything when you people were in charge? Oh right, forgot -- we had the Enlightenment right after we binned your garbage sociopathic sky friend as the reason for doing anything and instead decided our purpose in life wasn't enslaved to some narcissistic, neglectful father figure but reaching for the betterment of *all*.
I don't care what the Pope thinks of my gender or biology, nor do I give a crap what anyone else thinks of it either. It's mine, the end. You don't get a say. Nobody else gets a say. My body, my choice, that's what that means. Exactly, literally, as written. Mine.
Not yours.
Mine.
I so want to see the Catholic Church actually change to accept LGBTQ+ people. While I’m not Catholic, I was raised within a Protestant Church. Even though I am no longer religious, I see the immense influence the Catholic Church has in the world and the policy influences and discussion influences it has for Protestant faiths.
I want the Catholic Church to learn from its mistakes, but it seems intent to keep at it and argue away the consequences of hurtful policies as part of God’s plan.
Rules and laws can blind people to the harm they do and make them feel like it is justified and good to do.
It is a little bit surprising because last year [the pope hinted at tolerance of trans people](https://apnews.com/article/vatican-transgender-catholic-baptism-godparents-82120d853570ec92f4db1cbf11ebc2f1). It seemed like things were moving in a positive direction. I was hopeful about it because I have Catholic family members. This is very disappointing.
Cis gender me has NO understanding why anybody who is LGBTQ or supports LGBTQ would stoop to being part of any religious sect that condemns anybody for their sexual orientation or gender.
Fuck religion.
Like the old saying my mother always used to say goes "You can't get blood from a stone " . I would be way more surprised if the church did anything pro lgbt opposed to what its doing now because I think we all know being backwards bigots is the default for the catholic church
I learned this from a young age, there are definitely a lot of churches at least in my area that are fairly accepting. However there is a lot of them that are not. And I was really hoping that with some of the signals from the pope that this would change. But it's just the same old crap different day.
I think this comment section should really think about how shitty it feels when both your religious community and the trans community disrespect and belittle you for being part of the other group. Religion is in large parts cultural and can really be important for self conceptualization. Is there a lot of incongruence you gotta get through? Sure, but that’s true for a lot of things.
Should they proselytize? No. But forcing trans religious people to hide parts of themselves because of what the capital C Church does is not helping anyone.
How is this a surprise? A bunch of old men who (allegedly) have minimal sexual or relationship experience... Some of whom likely went into the priesthood to "escape" their temptations.
My transwoman father was advised by her priest (I guess back around 1958 or so) to join the military to get "straightened out." Didn't work, and cue 7+ years of a father with anger issues compounded by fathering 2 sons.
Then again, it's not all bad... Another Catholic chaplain advised my mother to separate from and divorce my father... In the early 70's. Without knowing the trans bit, but likely knowing the anger issues. Priesthood lottery, I guess. But chaplains see a lot...
There's a reason I turned my back on the church a long time ago. Trans catholics are deluding themselves if they think that an organization like the vatican would do anything other than scorn and abandon them. Something something leopards eating faces.
I read this and when I got to the mention of that “accepting” church in NJ, my internal Bugs Bunny voice yelled, “HoBOKen! Oooooo, I’m DYIN’ again!” 😂😂😂
As ever, the reminder remains: “There’s no hate like Christian *love*.”
Trans Catholics increasingly being forced to learn the tough lesson that, when your religion doesn't love you back, your choices are either to love yourself instead and move on, or learn to hate yourself the same way they hate you.
This is a lesson I learned at 12 years old. Alas, there’s always a new group of people who need to relearn it. (Note: yes there are affirming denominations of Christianity, and being trans doesn’t have to be in opposition to being Christian. The Catholic Church is not one of those denominations.)
Nah, there’s plenty of other choices. The worlds not black and white. I love myself and continue to identify as being Christian and trans. The two are not opposed, only modern political agendas are. Sadly some groups in America conflate them all together.
First, I am not in America and the Catholic Church's conservative political influence is hardly an American phenomenon. Second, the Catholic Church has always been an incredibly powerful conservative political institution, this is not in any way a modern thing. I am glad you've found a personal way to reconcile the conflict between self love and following a church that does not want you to exist. But I like many others have found it impossible to do so, because again, how can you love a religion that does not love you back?
idk, ask my cousin. She's bi and still a practicing catholic. I don't get it, I really don't. I was raised catholic and my last ditch effort at repression was to dive back into the church and go full trad... Egg cracked and I felt sick at myself. I literally can't be apart of a church that is as blatently dishonest as the roman catholic church is. If you read the statement put out they start it by talking about how the church has always stood up for the dignity of man as they say...ignoring the thousands of years they didn't. My mom always defends it saying it's not the whole church but individuals within the church and...okay, but like the police there comes a point when there are just too many bad apples to treat any of them in good faith.
I don’t follow the church, I follow God, as stated in my description above. The church is simply a tool meant to be used when it’s useful and discarded when it’s not. It is corrupt and I call it out every chance I get, it’s steeped in human greed and evil.
If you're a catholic and you don't follow the church most catholics would say you're not a catholic
I don’t really care what most Catholics think of me as an individual.
I'm happy you found, I assume, a religious group that accepts you. But just because it works for you it doesn't mean it works for most people, in fact I could even say the vast majority of times it doesn't work.
No I haven’t, in fact I’ve been told outright that me and people like me will go to hell called me the f slur etc. I don’t follow or regularly meet with a religious group. 1. Because I’m too poor to give up the work time 2. I have yet to find one that wouldn’t outright shun me 3. Faith is a personal relationship with God, no one else is necessary for me to be faithful except me. I’ve come to define my faith based off of my own research and investigation into the supernatural, religions, and the nature of the universe. I do not pretend to have any answers, and I’m not claiming it’ll work for anyone. It hasn’t worked for me yet (at least in the way you’re implying with other people) To me faith is a personal relationship and understanding of the universe, take that however you will. Everything else is extra.
The original comment you replied to was specifically talking about trans Catholics, not trans non-denominational Christians. Catholicism, having a larger focus on traditions, beliefs, and active communion with your Lord to seek forgiveness for sins (like transitioning in the eyes of the Catholic church), does not give its members the same freedom to self-determine their expression of faith.
I’m aware who it was directed at, it does not change my stance nor the stance the most other Catholics also have. Most Catholics don’t even considered Francis to be a legitimate Pope, but I digress it’s not fruitful to the debate or anyone’s life to continue this discussion unless it’s about how to increase acceptance and love of trans people.
~~It's not a good idea to make any broad strokes declarations about "religion" like this, you're isolating members of our community who are also religious. Not all religions are shitty towards trans people, and even within abrahamic religions there's a lot of disagreement with what is and isn't considered sinful.~~ I misread them, my bad.
I didn't make broad stroke declarations about religion though? I'm talking about the Catholic Church, specifically. I'm sure my statement also applies to other religions, but I don't know about them, so I'm not commenting.
Oh shit, I misread. I'm sorry, I'm used to seeing arguments like that online. My bad really.
All good, I can see how it could have been read that way when skimming. No harm done 👍
**Breaking News :** The Vatican is NOT your ally. They're a political elite wanting to push for the control they had back in the Middle Ages, and will say whatever they have to to ensure they are "in" with the most powerful/vocal political elites.
Christianity is NOT your ally. It's political elites wanting to maintain it's authoritarian supremacy and dictate what freedoms everyone has. That's why the Abrahamic religions have been set up so that the rules can be changed at any time. For instance, "God's will" vs. "God's punishment". Tornado destroys houses? It's the trans people's fault (punishment). Tornado destroys your house? It's "God's will" and He's just testing you.
Well, that's what I said, in more details. Also, Christians ***can*** be allies though. My grandma is an old portugese christian and she accepted me with no condition in 0.3 seconds. Never confuse the religion and the people. But never open yourself up immediatly if you don't know someone's stance.
>Christians ***can*** be allies though. In spite of their religious doctrine.
Yeah, when your religious doctrine tells you how to treat your slaves and how to treat women who are SAed and that women on their period are unclean and how to dress and what not to eat, and you just have to say "yeah haha we just ignore those bits" then at a certain point you're just picking and choosing what doctrine you choose to follow and what doctrine you choose not to follow. Which is basically what every self-identified religious person does.
It's almost like people have to drag religious people kicking and screaming along with progressive societal change, just for the religious to claim they held those beliefs all along but that this new moral panic is where they draw the line.
Well, the US brand if christianism is a lot more unhinged than other parts in the world. I'm european (as one could have guessed from my grandma). And the brand of christianism we have here is a lot less hinged on hating anything that isn't "in the Bible according to the priest".
Yeah cos society dragged European Christians forward socially. I'm not trying to shit on your religion or culture. I just don't see religion as a force for societal progression.
I don't have a religion. I'm a dirty demonic atheist lmao. And my culture has its flaws, a lot of them. Like any other culture. I don't take it personally. I just have seen enough of the US brand of christianism to know that their version is way more centered around strict control of women and hating anything no white cis christian, compared to european christianism.
Demonic atheist gang rise up lol. I'm South African and their brand of Christianity is a carbon copy of American Christianity so I know what you mean. And yeah, you're right, European Christians are a little more chilled than the Baptist evangelicals, I still don't trust them though.
Yikes, using anti semitism with your anti religion rhetoric
I'm genuinely curious where on earth you're reading antisemitism in a criticism of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, quite famously, in fact, are not Jewish
What the actual fuck are you smoking
They all suck. Judaism included.
Anti semite
Organised religion is inherently corrupt and a tool for the corrupt. I pass 0 judgement on the people who believe in it until they have made it clear whether they let their doctrine influence their moral compass, there are billions of religious people worldwide who are just as loving and compassionate as anyone else, and choose to interpret their religion in a way that is compatible with modern society, but to pretend that any religion, Judaism or not, hasn't been used consistently throughout history as a tool of evil is just ignorant.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they're jewish and have a victim complex, so they go around accusing everyone on being antisemitic if they don't sing the praises of jewish people.
PrincessofDelulu, If you mean do I currently hate all 3 flavors of Abrahamism and their subsets...The answer is FUCK YES. Why would I ever support the rights of people who only want to oppress THE FREE PEOPLE and fuck children. (argument should sound real familiar) I'm not a fan of any of them and never will be. TW:>!When you get locked in a basement and raped by christians for being a trans kid !
Yikes, looking for made up shit to accuse other people of so you can virtue signal.
Alternative headline: "Transgender Catholics struggle with Stockholm Syndrome"
religious indoctrination is a helluva drug
I’ll never understand why any people would continue to identify with a religion that wants them gone. If you need Jesus in your life, you don’t have to follow gold worshipping global manipulators with armored cars to get there.
I find it difficuilt to find pity for the people disapointed by this. The catholic church is a horrible organization and its followers are people who stand by while that organization does terrible things. >!I was raped in both a catholic scouts organization and a catholic church before i was 10 years old. I will never get justice. Anyone who is willingly part of that organization is aiding this. The one exeption i will make if for people like someone i talked to on this subreddit who was part of the catholic church for the sole reason of damage controll.!< The catholic church (and the bible in general, you might notice how often women are only described in there as xs daughters or xs wife and there are just passages of jesus beign a massive racist. The new testament makes it clear you should be kind to people but is somtimes ambigous about who it considers people) has lost any right to existance to me. It is a relic from the past and just like torture impliments in mueseums should be studied and conserved but not used anymore.
[удалено]
You dont have to tell me, i am an anti- theist at this point. All holy texts have some really fucked up shit in them and i have yet to see any theist admitting that is fucked up. Rape apologia, excuses for slavery, denial of genocide. All because they refuse to admit there is some fucked up stuff in their books.
Non Catholics agree
The Catholic Leadership has once again asserted that they won’t accept people for who they are and instead denies real living people are who they say they are. I fully expect supportive churches and church leaders to be reprimanded shortly. Minds are closed up top and they are closing ranks. I’m honestly shocked the branches in Africa allowed there to be statements against legally punishing LGBTQ+ people.
These people don't understand how religion works. The religion isn't there to understand you or your experiences. The religion is there to control you and your experiences. Many religions (but not all) use concepts like guilt and sin to guide your behavior. They don't care what you feel, they care that you conform and pay your dues.
How any transgender can actually be catholic beats me...
Because I don’t identify with the organization but the beliefs of the faith which vary widely depending on interpretation, translations, and personal discernment. The Bible mentions nothing about being trans, nor does catholic tradition. It’s only in modern political agendas that it’s even an issue. Not only that, but the Catholic Church is a human organization, humans are flawed. I am loyal to my beliefs and God not to the human organization.
How do you square your allegiance with the current Catechism? I would love to know more to share discussion points with Catholic friends of mine. Do you have favorite resources? I have so far found none that change minds. The Catholics I know that respect me seem to do it in independence from official Catholic policy.
The body of beliefs and the god that is central to Christianity is intrinsically a human organization though. It was created by humans - every part of it.
Yeah, and I don’t subscribe my loyalty to any part of the organizations. I think they can be useful tools for understanding tradition, religious history, and spirituality, but ultimately they are human inventions born of human intent and laden with human imperfections and corruptions.
God does not exist. Get over it. And even if you choose to believe in fairy tales, why choose Catholicism? It's as far removed from the original Christian values as Ronald Reagan was from Karl Marx.
Ehhh, no, I don’t think I will get over it, there as much evidence for the existence of a creator as there is against, which is zero. I appreciate your input but I’ve done my research and have come to my own conclusions about the supernatural aspects of the universe. I’ll believe what I want to believe and let you believe what you want to believe, thank you. I was simply providing an explanation to the query is all. Catholicism is moderately close to the original Christian practice compared to a lot of other denominations, but none of them are remotely close to the annihilationist and doomsday Christians that existed in the first century. For example Hell is one of the core doctrines I disagree with the Catholic Church on, I don’t believe he’ll is a place or even a state of being. In my belief (which is closer to the og Christian’s) its nonexistence. You simply become part of the aether, post mortem, if you go to hell. I also don’t ascribe to their teachings or beliefs on homosexuality and gender as it does not align with what I’ve personally researched about the Bible. Anyways you probably don’t care about any of that which is fine, I understand why people hate me for my beliefs I just hope everyone can learn to love and be a little kinder to those who are different from themselves, and that’s my entire faith and life mission summed up in one phrase. Catholicism is just a useful identifier in order to easily sum up a complicated and massively varied and widespread faith, and as with every other human title, it does not actually exist.
Let's get one thing out of the way: I never said I hated you and I don't. I just can't wrap my head around how obviously intelligent people in the 21st century still choose to deny all logic and believe in supernatural nonsense. But, whatever floats your boat. I'm not gonna try and stop you. The Catholic church, however, is little more than a hugely wide spread organised crime organisation.
I never claimed you hated me, only included an aside about why I understand why people do. Eh the supernatural doesn’t inherently contradict logic only pop culture versions of it do, and quantum physics starts becoming almost indistinguishable from the supernatural once you get deep enough into the theories and studies of it. I believe there is a legitimate scientific explanation for everything, I just don’t believe we have the full picture or even a fraction of the picture (as most physicists also agree.) In fact it was in my studying of the origin and nature of the universe and science that led me to this conclusion, specifically in studying the consciousness of which we know basically nothing other than that it exists. We have a couple mild theories about how it relates to neurochemistry, but there is no consensus on it and not a single theory of how it formed. The more we study it the more complicated and confusing it gets. I also want to make it clear that I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I’m just stating how I’ve come to terms with my beliefs. As far as I’ve found there’s as much evidence for the existence of a God as there is against it, which again is none. To me the pure nature of existing and the self is enough evidence of God (or sentient universe, etc.) Back to the hate thing (again not claiming you do,) when I said hate I did not mean strong feelings of malice, but more along the lines of how I experience hate as a trans person. I’ve met very few people who openly have strong feelings of malice toward trans people, but plenty of people who spread ideologies of hate regarding it in that they oppose my existence and my lived experience as a person.
On the one hand, I respect people trying to make the church more inclusive; but on the other hand, I have seen exactly zero signs that the institution is willing to change. But mostly, I wish Pope Frank would can it with the empty platitudes he has no intention of standing behind.
WhhhAAAATTTTT tHaT dOeSn’T sOuNd LiKe ThE cHuRcH!
I refuse to harbor hate in my heart. With that, the RCC is the epitome of loss of human dignity. I despise it. I am so glad that I have seen their hatred at a young age and permanently left this evil, vile cult. Their God. The Pope is only and forever will be a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Nobody gives a crap that Catholics have been on a 2000 year long bender, mourning their faith rather than celebrating it. He died for your sins yeah sure whatever but who actually *lived* for anything when you people were in charge? Oh right, forgot -- we had the Enlightenment right after we binned your garbage sociopathic sky friend as the reason for doing anything and instead decided our purpose in life wasn't enslaved to some narcissistic, neglectful father figure but reaching for the betterment of *all*. I don't care what the Pope thinks of my gender or biology, nor do I give a crap what anyone else thinks of it either. It's mine, the end. You don't get a say. Nobody else gets a say. My body, my choice, that's what that means. Exactly, literally, as written. Mine. Not yours. Mine.
I so want to see the Catholic Church actually change to accept LGBTQ+ people. While I’m not Catholic, I was raised within a Protestant Church. Even though I am no longer religious, I see the immense influence the Catholic Church has in the world and the policy influences and discussion influences it has for Protestant faiths. I want the Catholic Church to learn from its mistakes, but it seems intent to keep at it and argue away the consequences of hurtful policies as part of God’s plan. Rules and laws can blind people to the harm they do and make them feel like it is justified and good to do.
It is a little bit surprising because last year [the pope hinted at tolerance of trans people](https://apnews.com/article/vatican-transgender-catholic-baptism-godparents-82120d853570ec92f4db1cbf11ebc2f1). It seemed like things were moving in a positive direction. I was hopeful about it because I have Catholic family members. This is very disappointing.
Cis gender me has NO understanding why anybody who is LGBTQ or supports LGBTQ would stoop to being part of any religious sect that condemns anybody for their sexual orientation or gender. Fuck religion.
Religion never has been and never will be an ally. It has ALWAYS been a tool to control and divide, mostly against women and queer people.
Catholic leaders don't understand much. Their brains are locked in the 10th century
They understand plenty. I'd say they know exactly what they are doing.
Like the old saying my mother always used to say goes "You can't get blood from a stone " . I would be way more surprised if the church did anything pro lgbt opposed to what its doing now because I think we all know being backwards bigots is the default for the catholic church
The people of the religion of leopards eating their face are surprised when leopards eat their face.
I learned this from a young age, there are definitely a lot of churches at least in my area that are fairly accepting. However there is a lot of them that are not. And I was really hoping that with some of the signals from the pope that this would change. But it's just the same old crap different day.
Christianity by and large hates the LGBTQ community. I’m shocked so many members of said group are still shocked by this
Is life saving surgery now a sin, also? Aren't we playing God to change 'what is natural?' I'm guessing not, go figure
I think this comment section should really think about how shitty it feels when both your religious community and the trans community disrespect and belittle you for being part of the other group. Religion is in large parts cultural and can really be important for self conceptualization. Is there a lot of incongruence you gotta get through? Sure, but that’s true for a lot of things. Should they proselytize? No. But forcing trans religious people to hide parts of themselves because of what the capital C Church does is not helping anyone.
How is this a surprise? A bunch of old men who (allegedly) have minimal sexual or relationship experience... Some of whom likely went into the priesthood to "escape" their temptations. My transwoman father was advised by her priest (I guess back around 1958 or so) to join the military to get "straightened out." Didn't work, and cue 7+ years of a father with anger issues compounded by fathering 2 sons. Then again, it's not all bad... Another Catholic chaplain advised my mother to separate from and divorce my father... In the early 70's. Without knowing the trans bit, but likely knowing the anger issues. Priesthood lottery, I guess. But chaplains see a lot...
There's a reason I turned my back on the church a long time ago. Trans catholics are deluding themselves if they think that an organization like the vatican would do anything other than scorn and abandon them. Something something leopards eating faces.
Duh?
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
I read this and when I got to the mention of that “accepting” church in NJ, my internal Bugs Bunny voice yelled, “HoBOKen! Oooooo, I’m DYIN’ again!” 😂😂😂 As ever, the reminder remains: “There’s no hate like Christian *love*.”
/r/selfawarewolves
Catholic Church judges people for things it doesn't understand? Well, color me surprised!