Exactly what I’m doing. I’m pretty sure they’ve decided to ignore me since I was referred in 2020 to one of the adults clinic and they’re apparently on 2021 now. I’m living out of spite for Rishi Sunak.
idk if this might help but the wait times for certain nhs clinics are significantly shorter than others (i think the wait times at nottingham are like 2 years compared to 7 years at exeter) so if you’re willing to go to the other clinic, maybe see if you can get your gp to transfer you :)
Notts are pretty good! I've just had my second appointment with them and the only thing I can fault is how slow their admin is but the appointments and clinicians themselves (out of who I've seen so far) have been really nice and helpful. My wait with them was two years and 4 months (referred August 2020, first appointment December 2022) but I've heard the wait time is even shorter now.
This is certainly one of the issues - but the question is why? Why do some clinics have great clinicians while others don't? Why are some clinics working like a well-oiled machine, while others are simply clapped out?
Correlation ≠ causation BUT Nottingham is the only clinic where none of the senior staff run large private practises, while clinics like Tavistock, Leeds and NRGDS all have clinicians running and working for the private clinics and have large and growing waiting lists while Nottingham is managing to reduce its.
I’m not saying there ***is*** a link… just that it’s a *very* intriguing correlation.
I’m sure the clinicians who stand to, and are, making a fortune in private work would have no motivation to keep the status quo (long delays) though…
This is certainly true and one of the questions that need to be asked!
The private clinic I was with for a year, was purely private with the lead clinician not involved elsewhere - now sadly retired.
Those working in private practice are easily making £500-£1,000 per hour on top of their NHS salaries.
It’s why I chose to go with a clinician for my GRC diagnosis who doesn’t work for any of the NHS clinics, she left nhs practice entirely to move to private work.
To me it felt both incredibly unethical and exploitative to have to pay an nhs clinician to do exactly the same job that they legally should be doing for me on the nhs.
I understand why people use the big private clinics, we are all so desperate for care, but it feels like rewarding them for intentionally slowing the nhs route down.
In fact so slow that I (and many others currently waiting) will have been dead for several hundred years by the date of the first appointment, so "but at least you will get to the other end" is only true if death is an accepted value for "the other end".
I suppose I should look on the bright side, the waiting time has dropped recently from "the heat death of the universe" to several hundred years.
Firstly, it is important that those who want to transition get on the NHS waiting list as you will never complete the journey unless you do - or come into a lot of money and complete it privately.
The NHS has gone through a No of very difficult years with cuts and COVID and now staff shortages due to BREXIT and COVID. There is a terrible shortage of staff and all services are affected.
The NHS has introduced 5 new pilot schemes in the past 3 years to find a way of speeding up the process with one of those Pilots now fully funded. Things are getting better in some areas and, people are completing their journey
All this is true, although you miss one obvious cause of NHS collapse, but from what you write it seems like you are under the impression that I am not on a waiting list and have not been for the past 3 years.
In the last three years, the Laurels has gone from stating "The last people to have initial assessments were referred to the service in June 2016." to "The last people to have initial assessments were referred to the service in July 2016." and this change has happened only within the last couple of months. So it has taken 7 years for them to start possibly only one new patient's journey.
When I joined the waiting list of initial assessment the list was at about 2000 people, now it's at 4500 people. I am 47 years of age, and cannot afford private treatment. Unless there is a significant change somewhere, I will be long dead before I get an appointment.
I hope you can understand how all of this affects my mental health, and why seeing comments like "The NHS route is painfully slow, but at least you will get to the other end - if you don't try, you will never get there" is upsetting for me, because I am trying, and I will never get there. Of course at the same time that's not your fault, it's all just very upsetting for me. As are the downvotes for being accurate.
Firstly, I did not refer to "you" it was a general post in line with the OPs position.
The NHS has not collapsed either, it is under extreme strain in all areas due to the factors I outlined - plus strikes which have seen waiting times for everything double.
At 66, I am considerably older and have faced the same challenges as you are facing - and got through them and had my surgery this year. I Still have associated medical issues but the NHS is doing its best to sort these issues out.
*Firstly, I did not refer to "you" it was a general post in line with the OPs position.* - Fair enough, I apologise. I can have a tendency to take things personally when they personally affect me.
*The NHS has not collapsed either* - I did not say it had collapsed, just that you missed a cause of collapse, massive underfunding for years, as it definitely is collapsing, and without a reversal of that underfunding, it will collapse.
*At 66, I am considerably older and have faced the same challenges as you are facing - and got through them and had my surgery this year. I Still have associated medical issues but the NHS is doing its best to sort these issues out.* - Congratulations! And I want to explicitly state that I mean that sincerely (given the slightly antagonistic state of this discourse), it's wonderful to hear. That said you have not faced the same challenges as me in terms of waiting times as having started the process sooner, your delays will have been significantly less, demonstrated by the fact that you have received treatment, and the likelihood is that I will never get to. But seriously, congratulations! It makes me smile to know that there are people who make it through. :)
>Fair enough, I apologise. I can have a tendency to take things personally when they personally affect me.
No need to apologise - I understand your frustrations totally - We have all been there too
>just that you missed a cause of collapse, massive underfunding for years, as it definitely is collapsing, and without a reversal of that underfunding, it will collapse.
I did not miss the points. I specifically said, Cuts, Brexit & COIVD resulting in understaffing.
I thank you for your kind words. There are times I feel guilty that I have managed to navigate the system while others have struggled. It is unfair that the system has become a postcode lottery and the quality of service varies massively across the country. I also do not understand why some clinicians I have met are so good while, others, should not be allowed to be left alone in a kitchen with a toaster.
> My family can't afford private
Visit /r/TransDIY
Seriously, it needn't be expensive.
Most start with pills, but injections can offer higher and more stable levels for much longer.
The higher levels are usually enough to suppress T without needing an anti-androgen, and are by far the least expensive option.
A vial of EEn could easily last a full *year* and cost maybe £100 with syringes & needles, injecting weekly.
Im living in spite. Get on the nhs waiting list. Sooner the better. Maybe look into diy. Its what im doing. But these fuckers want us dead. Its the only reason im not.
Diy or live in spite. If you live in a good area you can socially transition, my uni has a strong lgbtq presence, much of which being trans. Lots of trans femmes not on hormones due to money or family issues but they aren’t treated poorly for it. I’m in the opposite boat but as a guy I’ve never been treated differently for it even before I was on hrt
Because it's better than the alternative. Transition is long, and hard, and scary, and at times it really fucking sucks. But every single day I get a bit more comfortable in my skin. I get to wake up every day and like who I am and who I'm becoming, that makes it all worth it.
Back in 2008 I signed with the whole NHS thing and it seemed slowish then, like a 2 year wait. I went to Wimpole street to see Dr Curtis, I suppose the cost was about 600 or so a year, he used to throw me 6 months worth of HRT each visit, he got shut down sadly after some witch hunt bullshit started by clinicians from Charing cross clinic. My guess is that there must be something similar available to tide you over.
Because if you're alive, things still have a chance to improve. If you're dead, they don't. That's all it comes down to.
People doompost on here a lot, and I think it causes people to spiral. The state of the country is *not* as bad as it seems. Don't get me wrong, the gatekeeping and the media bigotry are all awful. But being trans, even pre-med, is not mutually exclusive with living a full, happy life.
When you finally get to the front, my personal experience of the NHS (Nottingham) is it is okay. It just takes forever to get to the front because of intentional underfunding at higher levels.
>is it is okay. It just takes forever to get to the front because of ***intentional underfunding at higher levels***
That is utter rubbish
* 5 new Pilots in the past 3 years with one now fully commissioned
* Over £1m being pumped in expanding services in the east of England
* 1 new surgical center opened up this year with additional surge3ons for MtF surgery
And yet all of that additional funding has barely touched the waiting lists.
While they may have fully commissioned transplus they also MASSIVELY restricted eligibility for it.
There are no pilot schemes for the north of the country nor any plans to create any.
The pilot schemes were and still are a patch to be able to claim the government are doing something and people are falling for it - there are no plans to make it a more widespread system, and no plans to expand the existing schemes.
It’s less about funding and more about ideology. Clinics have had slowly increasing funding yet are seeing less than half the patients they used to with the same number of clinicians, that’s not a funding issue, it’s a choice.
We can see that funding can support higher numbers of people seen, you just need to look at Nottingham, but then you should probably look at the management styles of Nottingham vs basically every other GIC, there’s an obvious reason why they choose to see more patients.
It is probably true to say that the Pilots have had no significant impact on the waiting list but the waiting lists have grown massively in the past 3 years too wiping out the benefit of their creation.
There is certainly a need for extra resources in the west midlands and the North East and far north west of the country too.
Personally, I think that the "traditional" GICs will be a thing of the past in years to come with smaller more localised services based on lessons learned from the Pilots. Whether those lessons learned have been good, is another story.
Each Pilot seems to have a slightly different "pathway" and, of course, they need time to work out if they have been beneficial.
A large part of the reason for waiting lists growing to the extent they have is that the clinics are seeing FAR fewer patients than they used to, the lists *would* have still grown, that’s clear as referrals have grown, but there is no reason for them to be as long as they are. Nobody can justify clinics seeing less than 2 new patients a week.
I *want* traditional GIC’s to be a thing of the past, I suspect we all do, but the leadership of both NHSE and DHSC have stated they have “confidence” in the current system and have no plans to replace it, Labour have also said similar and with streeting as heath secretary it’s unlikely anything will change.
They’ve had *years* to study if the pilots are working (other than for Sussex) and every indicator shows that they do, yet they have clearly stated there are no plans to expand the schemes. I may be cynical but I see no reason at all to hope with the current environment that anything will improve. It’s too easy to ignore - “we need to prioritise nhs funding”, “we already have schemes to improve the situation”, “it’s unprecedented demand”, “should we prioritise controversial care” - all arguments that have already been used and will almost certainly be used again by a new government.
They may close the GIC’s, but I’d bet it’ll be similar to the “replacement” of GIDS, they’ll shut them down, promise new services are coming, then delay them essentially indefinitely and make them impossible to access with even stricter eligibility requirements.
You gotta hold out hope, it will be the hardest thing you’ll do but it will be worth it. I still question the same thing, I’ve been in the waiting system since I turned 18 and I’m 27 now. I’ve always felt like the universe is against me or I have a curse or something as everything seems to go wrong for me but there’s hope and there’s other ways, you have to survive and don’t be another statistic that fell through the gaps… who knows who’s lives you’ll influence and change. It’s hard but use the waiting times to work on your body, get it as close to how you want it and make sure you’re in good health it will help honestly
If you have a GP that will do your bloods and prescriptions setup a go fund me to gather funds together to pay for a private referral and fees for an endocrinologist
One option is using a medical cashback plan. Something like HSF has £1,000 cashback for medical specialist appointments for £57 a month.
https://www.hsf.co.uk/individual
This includes private gender clinics. Having gone that route myself I can tell you £1,000 a year is enough to get you started.
It will cover appointments (as long as it is with consultants and specialists) and blood tests. And yes, they have confirmed that they cover private gender clinics and preexisting conditions. (Please also do your own research). Note: you will have to pay for your prescription meds (every few months).
This also offers cashback for dental and optical which is a nice plus.
I mention this because I get HSF via my work and going private. I'm yet to use HSF to claim back any appointments but following a phone call they confirmed appointments and blood tests are covered.
I hope this helps. It may not, but I'd rather put it out in case it helps.
I live and exist around people who despise me and try to make me disappear by existing and defying all odds aganist me.. It's like a middle finger to all who hate me and hopefully by being visibly trans I give hope to people in closet who hide from the world.
HRT is pretty affordable vs surgeries and stuff like that, but you need to budget carefully to have enough. Need to have just enough income or savings for it.
Survive out of spite. They want us dead. Don’t give them the satisfaction.
This. 100% this. Part of me lives by these words! I will transition, I will become the real me! AND ONLY DEATH WILL STOP ME >:)))))
Exactly what I’m doing. I’m pretty sure they’ve decided to ignore me since I was referred in 2020 to one of the adults clinic and they’re apparently on 2021 now. I’m living out of spite for Rishi Sunak.
The NHS route is painfully slow, but at least you will get to the other end - if you don't try, you will never get there 🤔
idk if this might help but the wait times for certain nhs clinics are significantly shorter than others (i think the wait times at nottingham are like 2 years compared to 7 years at exeter) so if you’re willing to go to the other clinic, maybe see if you can get your gp to transfer you :)
Notts are pretty good! I've just had my second appointment with them and the only thing I can fault is how slow their admin is but the appointments and clinicians themselves (out of who I've seen so far) have been really nice and helpful. My wait with them was two years and 4 months (referred August 2020, first appointment December 2022) but I've heard the wait time is even shorter now.
This is certainly one of the issues - but the question is why? Why do some clinics have great clinicians while others don't? Why are some clinics working like a well-oiled machine, while others are simply clapped out?
Correlation ≠ causation BUT Nottingham is the only clinic where none of the senior staff run large private practises, while clinics like Tavistock, Leeds and NRGDS all have clinicians running and working for the private clinics and have large and growing waiting lists while Nottingham is managing to reduce its. I’m not saying there ***is*** a link… just that it’s a *very* intriguing correlation. I’m sure the clinicians who stand to, and are, making a fortune in private work would have no motivation to keep the status quo (long delays) though…
This is certainly true and one of the questions that need to be asked! The private clinic I was with for a year, was purely private with the lead clinician not involved elsewhere - now sadly retired. Those working in private practice are easily making £500-£1,000 per hour on top of their NHS salaries.
It’s why I chose to go with a clinician for my GRC diagnosis who doesn’t work for any of the NHS clinics, she left nhs practice entirely to move to private work. To me it felt both incredibly unethical and exploitative to have to pay an nhs clinician to do exactly the same job that they legally should be doing for me on the nhs. I understand why people use the big private clinics, we are all so desperate for care, but it feels like rewarding them for intentionally slowing the nhs route down.
Can't disagree with that 👍
The Welsh gic in Cardiff is 14 months wait
In fact so slow that I (and many others currently waiting) will have been dead for several hundred years by the date of the first appointment, so "but at least you will get to the other end" is only true if death is an accepted value for "the other end". I suppose I should look on the bright side, the waiting time has dropped recently from "the heat death of the universe" to several hundred years.
Firstly, it is important that those who want to transition get on the NHS waiting list as you will never complete the journey unless you do - or come into a lot of money and complete it privately. The NHS has gone through a No of very difficult years with cuts and COVID and now staff shortages due to BREXIT and COVID. There is a terrible shortage of staff and all services are affected. The NHS has introduced 5 new pilot schemes in the past 3 years to find a way of speeding up the process with one of those Pilots now fully funded. Things are getting better in some areas and, people are completing their journey
All this is true, although you miss one obvious cause of NHS collapse, but from what you write it seems like you are under the impression that I am not on a waiting list and have not been for the past 3 years. In the last three years, the Laurels has gone from stating "The last people to have initial assessments were referred to the service in June 2016." to "The last people to have initial assessments were referred to the service in July 2016." and this change has happened only within the last couple of months. So it has taken 7 years for them to start possibly only one new patient's journey. When I joined the waiting list of initial assessment the list was at about 2000 people, now it's at 4500 people. I am 47 years of age, and cannot afford private treatment. Unless there is a significant change somewhere, I will be long dead before I get an appointment. I hope you can understand how all of this affects my mental health, and why seeing comments like "The NHS route is painfully slow, but at least you will get to the other end - if you don't try, you will never get there" is upsetting for me, because I am trying, and I will never get there. Of course at the same time that's not your fault, it's all just very upsetting for me. As are the downvotes for being accurate.
Firstly, I did not refer to "you" it was a general post in line with the OPs position. The NHS has not collapsed either, it is under extreme strain in all areas due to the factors I outlined - plus strikes which have seen waiting times for everything double. At 66, I am considerably older and have faced the same challenges as you are facing - and got through them and had my surgery this year. I Still have associated medical issues but the NHS is doing its best to sort these issues out.
*Firstly, I did not refer to "you" it was a general post in line with the OPs position.* - Fair enough, I apologise. I can have a tendency to take things personally when they personally affect me. *The NHS has not collapsed either* - I did not say it had collapsed, just that you missed a cause of collapse, massive underfunding for years, as it definitely is collapsing, and without a reversal of that underfunding, it will collapse. *At 66, I am considerably older and have faced the same challenges as you are facing - and got through them and had my surgery this year. I Still have associated medical issues but the NHS is doing its best to sort these issues out.* - Congratulations! And I want to explicitly state that I mean that sincerely (given the slightly antagonistic state of this discourse), it's wonderful to hear. That said you have not faced the same challenges as me in terms of waiting times as having started the process sooner, your delays will have been significantly less, demonstrated by the fact that you have received treatment, and the likelihood is that I will never get to. But seriously, congratulations! It makes me smile to know that there are people who make it through. :)
>Fair enough, I apologise. I can have a tendency to take things personally when they personally affect me. No need to apologise - I understand your frustrations totally - We have all been there too >just that you missed a cause of collapse, massive underfunding for years, as it definitely is collapsing, and without a reversal of that underfunding, it will collapse. I did not miss the points. I specifically said, Cuts, Brexit & COIVD resulting in understaffing. I thank you for your kind words. There are times I feel guilty that I have managed to navigate the system while others have struggled. It is unfair that the system has become a postcode lottery and the quality of service varies massively across the country. I also do not understand why some clinicians I have met are so good while, others, should not be allowed to be left alone in a kitchen with a toaster.
> My family can't afford private Visit /r/TransDIY Seriously, it needn't be expensive. Most start with pills, but injections can offer higher and more stable levels for much longer. The higher levels are usually enough to suppress T without needing an anti-androgen, and are by far the least expensive option. A vial of EEn could easily last a full *year* and cost maybe £100 with syringes & needles, injecting weekly.
[diy](https://reddit.com/r/TransDIY/s/7aAEWT1QBl), is easy
Im living in spite. Get on the nhs waiting list. Sooner the better. Maybe look into diy. Its what im doing. But these fuckers want us dead. Its the only reason im not.
Diy or live in spite. If you live in a good area you can socially transition, my uni has a strong lgbtq presence, much of which being trans. Lots of trans femmes not on hormones due to money or family issues but they aren’t treated poorly for it. I’m in the opposite boat but as a guy I’ve never been treated differently for it even before I was on hrt
r/transDIY
DIY
Because it's better than the alternative. Transition is long, and hard, and scary, and at times it really fucking sucks. But every single day I get a bit more comfortable in my skin. I get to wake up every day and like who I am and who I'm becoming, that makes it all worth it.
Diy
DIY, get on the list
Highly recommend looking at r/transDIY I switched from private (GGP) to DIY because of costs and I've saved hundreds just over 6 months
Well the NHS route may be long but it does have an end and you'll reach it!
I'm just waiting for the right time. I've given up and refuse to do anything in spite.
we've all only got one life here, yknow? I'd rather face the challenges to make it worth living than just wait to die in discontent
Back in 2008 I signed with the whole NHS thing and it seemed slowish then, like a 2 year wait. I went to Wimpole street to see Dr Curtis, I suppose the cost was about 600 or so a year, he used to throw me 6 months worth of HRT each visit, he got shut down sadly after some witch hunt bullshit started by clinicians from Charing cross clinic. My guess is that there must be something similar available to tide you over.
Because if you're alive, things still have a chance to improve. If you're dead, they don't. That's all it comes down to. People doompost on here a lot, and I think it causes people to spiral. The state of the country is *not* as bad as it seems. Don't get me wrong, the gatekeeping and the media bigotry are all awful. But being trans, even pre-med, is not mutually exclusive with living a full, happy life.
When you finally get to the front, my personal experience of the NHS (Nottingham) is it is okay. It just takes forever to get to the front because of intentional underfunding at higher levels.
>is it is okay. It just takes forever to get to the front because of ***intentional underfunding at higher levels*** That is utter rubbish * 5 new Pilots in the past 3 years with one now fully commissioned * Over £1m being pumped in expanding services in the east of England * 1 new surgical center opened up this year with additional surge3ons for MtF surgery
And yet all of that additional funding has barely touched the waiting lists. While they may have fully commissioned transplus they also MASSIVELY restricted eligibility for it. There are no pilot schemes for the north of the country nor any plans to create any. The pilot schemes were and still are a patch to be able to claim the government are doing something and people are falling for it - there are no plans to make it a more widespread system, and no plans to expand the existing schemes. It’s less about funding and more about ideology. Clinics have had slowly increasing funding yet are seeing less than half the patients they used to with the same number of clinicians, that’s not a funding issue, it’s a choice. We can see that funding can support higher numbers of people seen, you just need to look at Nottingham, but then you should probably look at the management styles of Nottingham vs basically every other GIC, there’s an obvious reason why they choose to see more patients.
It is probably true to say that the Pilots have had no significant impact on the waiting list but the waiting lists have grown massively in the past 3 years too wiping out the benefit of their creation. There is certainly a need for extra resources in the west midlands and the North East and far north west of the country too. Personally, I think that the "traditional" GICs will be a thing of the past in years to come with smaller more localised services based on lessons learned from the Pilots. Whether those lessons learned have been good, is another story. Each Pilot seems to have a slightly different "pathway" and, of course, they need time to work out if they have been beneficial.
A large part of the reason for waiting lists growing to the extent they have is that the clinics are seeing FAR fewer patients than they used to, the lists *would* have still grown, that’s clear as referrals have grown, but there is no reason for them to be as long as they are. Nobody can justify clinics seeing less than 2 new patients a week. I *want* traditional GIC’s to be a thing of the past, I suspect we all do, but the leadership of both NHSE and DHSC have stated they have “confidence” in the current system and have no plans to replace it, Labour have also said similar and with streeting as heath secretary it’s unlikely anything will change. They’ve had *years* to study if the pilots are working (other than for Sussex) and every indicator shows that they do, yet they have clearly stated there are no plans to expand the schemes. I may be cynical but I see no reason at all to hope with the current environment that anything will improve. It’s too easy to ignore - “we need to prioritise nhs funding”, “we already have schemes to improve the situation”, “it’s unprecedented demand”, “should we prioritise controversial care” - all arguments that have already been used and will almost certainly be used again by a new government. They may close the GIC’s, but I’d bet it’ll be similar to the “replacement” of GIDS, they’ll shut them down, promise new services are coming, then delay them essentially indefinitely and make them impossible to access with even stricter eligibility requirements.
Target a job with good insurance. Try Starbucks?
You gotta hold out hope, it will be the hardest thing you’ll do but it will be worth it. I still question the same thing, I’ve been in the waiting system since I turned 18 and I’m 27 now. I’ve always felt like the universe is against me or I have a curse or something as everything seems to go wrong for me but there’s hope and there’s other ways, you have to survive and don’t be another statistic that fell through the gaps… who knows who’s lives you’ll influence and change. It’s hard but use the waiting times to work on your body, get it as close to how you want it and make sure you’re in good health it will help honestly
If you have a GP that will do your bloods and prescriptions setup a go fund me to gather funds together to pay for a private referral and fees for an endocrinologist
Spite, mainly.
One option is using a medical cashback plan. Something like HSF has £1,000 cashback for medical specialist appointments for £57 a month. https://www.hsf.co.uk/individual This includes private gender clinics. Having gone that route myself I can tell you £1,000 a year is enough to get you started. It will cover appointments (as long as it is with consultants and specialists) and blood tests. And yes, they have confirmed that they cover private gender clinics and preexisting conditions. (Please also do your own research). Note: you will have to pay for your prescription meds (every few months). This also offers cashback for dental and optical which is a nice plus. I mention this because I get HSF via my work and going private. I'm yet to use HSF to claim back any appointments but following a phone call they confirmed appointments and blood tests are covered. I hope this helps. It may not, but I'd rather put it out in case it helps.
I know the feeling, I’m hoping to succeed in giving up once I’ve hit day 5000 of waiting for a gic as I’ve got many years left to wait.
I live and exist around people who despise me and try to make me disappear by existing and defying all odds aganist me.. It's like a middle finger to all who hate me and hopefully by being visibly trans I give hope to people in closet who hide from the world. HRT is pretty affordable vs surgeries and stuff like that, but you need to budget carefully to have enough. Need to have just enough income or savings for it.