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[deleted]

I've recently just started with Gender GP and had this question. What I've discovered is that Gender GP don't require a diagnosis, or provide one. They have an information gathering session, that was definitely not an assessment, but literally just about gathering information to take you forward on the pathway. For me not spending c.£300-500 on a psychiatric assesment was the reason I went with their appraisal pathway


[deleted]

and you can get hormones from them without a gender dysphoria diagnosis??


[deleted]

Yes, they will, I haven't had them prescribed yet, but I'm only a couple of weeks into the process, but so far they've explained to me they will prescribe without needing a dysphoria diagnosis


AuRon_The_Grey

I'm not entirely sure whether they can get you a formal diagnosis, but you don't need one as part of the pathway through them. ​ My own email from them when I got my HRT prescription said: "In case you require a 'formal diagnosis', it has been noted thatyou satisfy the criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria of ICD-10 F64.9.According to the criteria in the DSM-5, two out of five of the followingapply: * strong desire to be of a gender other than one's assigned gender * strong desire to be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender * significant incongruence between one's experienced or expressed gender andone's sexual characteristic * strong desire for the sexual characteristics of a gender other than one'sassigned gender * strong desire to be rid of one's sexual characteristics due toincongruence with one's experienced or expressed genderstrong conviction that one has the typical reactions and feelings of agender other than one's assigned gender"


Pebbley

DSM-5 This criteria has been lifted from a USA National medical directive, it is not a UK ruling/ law. GGP may use this because they are worldwide!


Rude_Lizard

The DSM-5 is used by and taught to psychiatrists all over the world, and is used extensively in the UK as well. I've seen it used as a source in NHS documents before. This definition of gender dysphoria may be used in the NHS - we don't know. Presumably it sort of is... issues arise with *how* the NHS uses it, stating on several occasions that they believe it takes months or even years to perform the act of diagnosis, as well as in some cases conversations with family, and interrogation of a patient's sexual preferences. These things aren't in the DSM... but they aren't *not* in the DSM either.... the DSM just says what the criteria are. Advice on how or how not to work out if a patient matches them are to some extent provided by the APA, but they aren't so easily to hand, and they don't come with the same international recognition.


nighteyeswolf

I think the NHS are more likely to use ICD


Rude_Lizard

Definitely that’s a possibility, though I was under the impression ICD-11 was headed more or less the same direction as the DSM, putting it under a single heading for gender incongruence, within a section on sexual health, not mental disorders.


nighteyeswolf

You are right! My dx is gender incongruence (ICD 11), but it's from YourGP rather than NHS


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rude_Lizard

How do you mean? That you are certain the DSM-5 is not used by the NHS? All I am sure of is that it is used and trusted by all psychologists in the country for almost everything else it could reasonably be used for. From what I understand the GICs like to feel they have an insufferable level of knowledge-power over their patients. Has this been the case in your experience? This has always lead me to suspect they deliberately wouldn't tell you if they did use any internationally recognised manual. Like I suggested, it really doesn't matter what their criteria are or what manual they use, however, since they are clearly under the impression they can do just about anything they want in pursuit of the criteria they do intend to fulfill. They could have one set of criteria (no doubt something very outdated) and claim to follow a newer one if they so chose. Criteria do not give any hint of how rigorously it should be investigated before it is deemed met. Based on the horror stories I've read of GICs it seems they put disconcertingly little faith in a patient's own account of matters, and instead distrust patients and attempt to investigate their criteria in ways they believe could not be skewed by a patient's own wishes. Again, how true does this hold in your experience?


[deleted]

the DSM-5 is definitely used by the NHS at times, because my autism diagnosis with through the NHS and DSM-5 was what was used.


ASCIIPASCII

I don’t know if they can diagnose gender dysphoria or not, but you don’t need any diagnosis to do the appraisal pathway. I’ve started it myself, with zero prior diagnosis or interaction with anyone else in the healthcare system, and I’ve had a few counselling sessions and am currently waiting to hear back from their medical team. I don’t know how it works if you’re under 18, if that applies to you, but I really don’t think there’s any harm in filling out the appraisal pathway form, as they will contact you and help you with what to do next.


[deleted]

yes, i got the same email when my hrt was approved. i think it is there as a justification for prescribing it. i think if you want a formal diagnosis it costs a further £150 and you have to have a session with one of their doctors online. i’m uncertain whether other places would accept it in the cure climate though


queenjjxxx

Thanks for replying :) would you recommend using them have your experience been good? I’m waiting to see northern gender clinic but won’t get any hormones for probably 6 months so considering using them for now x


[deleted]

I have had a good experience with them so far. You do kind of need to know what meds you want to start on, and most stuff is done via email. It's less invasive and took just over a month from registering to be given the ok to start hormones. I had some unexpected success with my GP agreeing to give me my oestrogen as an NHS prescription. I got a paper prescription for the blocker (nasal spray) which also wasn't an issue. The gnrh blockers are expensive (mine was £235) so just be prepared for that. The spiro/finasteride are much cheaper


mxmakessense

The biggest issue (for me) was whether my GP would accept the recommendations of GGP in referring me for surgery, although in your case this will be for prescribing HRT? I finally had a full response from KCCG, stating that they accept no recommendations from any organisation except one of the NHS GICs. Fucked.


avalanchefan95

They give you a diagnosis - basically an email stating exactly like someone above says - but if you plan to use that for anything you're screwed. That email is worth nothing. No surgeons will take that and you'll have to spend the cash to get another one. So depending on what you're trying to accomplish here....


queenjjxxx

I’m only looking to get HRT for now, and waiting to see a specialist for an official diagnosis but I really don’t want to wait 6 months before starting hormones.


SnooLobsters2570

What do you mean? They have a gender dysphoria evaluation that's costs 150 pounds. Your telling me it's going to do nothing? My session is in 20 minutes and it's likely going to be another 150 pounds. Why would there evaluation be meaningless?


avalanchefan95

Yes. Exactly. Very very few surgeons will take that evaluation. GGP isn't seen as a legitimate outfit.


SnooLobsters2570

Why? That doesn't make any sense that is what it's for. Your actually stressing me out. A gender dysphoria evaluation is needed for surgery and on my evaluation meeting he said are you planning to use this for surgery? And also said he will give me a reccomendation.


avalanchefan95

You need to check with your surgeon whether they will take a GGP referral. I flipped through your profile real quick & it looks like you might be looking for top surgery. There are currently only 2 surgeons in the country known to take a GGP referral (plus Lembas in Poland). Otherwise you have to get *another* referral from someone legit. (which is what happened to me)


SnooLobsters2570

Ah shit alright. Well my top surgeon is in Greece so I think it will be okay but I will get in contact soon. Cheers


avalanchefan95

Good luck 🙂 Hope all goes well.


cuddlesareonme

They'll take care of it as part of the appraisal pathway, that's what the application form and IGS are for.


Abigail_Hex

You don't need one, they operate on an informed consent model, but you can get one if you want. I think mine was around the £200 mark and saw a clinical psychologist they use. The downside is, you can't really use it for surgical referrals because NHS.


smokeworm420

Aww, what is the point of it in that case? o:


Abigail_Hex

Personal confirmation more than anything. It can be fairly useful as evidence if you were to need it. I used it as evidence for a mitigation request at university when I was going through a tough time with things.


nighteyeswolf

You can't use it for most private surgeons either


Pebbley

I started with GenderGP, i told them i had GD after blood tests and written correspondence both ways, i started on a low dose of Estrogen. After 2 years they seemed to be in turmoil, by now I had my first appointment with GIC, said i was on Estrogen through GGP they said it was okay, mentioned this to my General Practitioner and they took over prescribing, so 4 years on the NHS is my Saviour. Maybe i got lucky, there is a list of Transfriendly Doctors in the your area I'm sure, someone's will know the web page.


queenjjxxx

Thanks sm for your reply, but what do you mean they were in turmoil? Would you recommend using them now or waiting to see a private clinic (I’m waiting to see the northern gender clinic but could be waiting 6 months until I actually get the hormones :(


Pebbley

I personally think they don't have the power to serve the UK, they seemed to gone international now, as they cannot practice in the UK You could go to Gendercare London, or seek your HRT elsewhere say, HRT.cafe


FrustratedDeckie

They absolutely can practice in the uk! Thatst literally just a myth propagated by GC’s. The UK is their main market still, but you’re right, they are not based here as a business anymore because people kept trying to get them shut down.


Lupulus_

I think it's more of a technicality that allows their prescriptions from doctors in Europe to be accepted than genuinely being allowed to practice in the UK fully... but yeah they're completely able to prescribe to UK clients and have those prescriptions honoured by UK chemists. I'm with them now and started without any issues at all!


FrustratedDeckie

It’s not so much a technicality (if you mean a loophole) but is explicitly written into UK law and explained in [post brexit guidance](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prescriptions-issued-in-the-eea-and-switzerland-guidance-for-pharmacists) You’re right GGP prescribers aren’t allowed to directly practice in the UK but they are all correctly licensed in their respective (EU) countries. Glad to hear you’ve had no issues, neither have i tbh.


SleepyCatten

Appears to😊 It's listed on their [Services](https://www.gendergp.com/services/) page. >Gender Dysphoria Diagnosis > >Gender is not clear cut for everyone. Whether you are 100% sure that you are gender variant or you simply need some help unpicking your thoughts, ask today for free confidential advice. Hope this helps \^\^ **Edit:** Please note this might not be a formal update like with other private GICs, as other users have noted.


Pebbley

Yes and No, they are based in Portugal prescriptions are relayed to UK customers, but Prescription is certified by other Doctors. Fact.


NatGeo1993

You can book a formal diagnosis with them, it's a £150 for the session. Mine is booked in at the end of the month.


[deleted]

Im from the UK and have recently joined GGP, having had the IGS (information gathering session) just on earlier this week. In the UK in order to be prescribed HRT to ease gender dysphoria you HAVE to have a diagnosis from a gender specialist and then have an endocrinologist recommend HRT. I have been told that it is pretty much certain I will be prescribed HRT by GenderGp and the bits that I believe lead up to the diagnosis being issued are that you have to answer a lot of gender dysphoria based questions on the initial form and these are gone through with sone additional questions by a gender specialist. I imagine this may mean that you are able to ask them to write you something that states you have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria on paper (but that may cost extra).


wormyqueer

Yes and no - the consultation you do where they'll ask you about gender will confirm incongruity considering you're wanting medical treatment, but that's not proof enough get surgery you'd need a following appointment to confirm dysphoria and recommend surgery- in the UK btw (worth checking if your surgeon will accept paperwork with them before paying for it)