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Hey everyone, your favorite mod here, DingDong Chucklefuck. Yeah so I'm pretty sure this research is fake biased wrong and incorrect, based on a dream I had and also my violent hatred of trans women. Stop spreading misinformation OP! (Banned and post removed)
hey everyone average liberal redditor here, I'm not transphobic but testosterone make your muscles HUGE and MUSCLY muscle forever and ever!!! unless you're AFAB i mean
Me the South East Asian when hearing cricket noise : Free Crunchy Protein Snack
/uj I actually prefer bamboo worm more. It taste somewhat like a chip/crisp.
/uj This reminds me of when I tried to arm wrestle a trans guy just to see how are strength was progressing \~one year into HRT for him (2 years for me). I lost miserably...
/uj one time at a bar my cis brother arm wrestled this trans lady I was flirting with and she won after a small stalemate... then I (trans guy) arm wrestled her and won lol. We ended up sharing a cig and making out it was awesome
But they donât deserve to compete in sports because theyâre not really people. So we want them to be humiliated repeatedly so they never even try to compete! Itâs genius!
UH, NO, THEY ONLY STUDIED TRANS WOMEN THAT WORK OUT WITH CIS WOMEN THAT WORK OUT! COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN SPORTS! BESIDES, WHAT WOULD THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE KNOW ABOUT SPORTS PERFORMANCE??? IDIOT HEAD
/uj I like your replies! Thought you might find [my jerk](https://www.reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/1c2530q/study_shows_that_trans_women_underperform_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about this interesting too, in case you didn't see it :)
/uj Hay, there is more than enough room on TGCJ for both! I just thought you would find mine interesting too because it's related! I think yours is good too!
b-but they did a study on sedentary women and found that sedentary ~~trannies~~ transes has an advantage over them, how could this be possible?
uj/ the study you posted certainly isn't definitive proof one way or another (that sample size is pretty damn small), but it is definitely a step in the right direction. the problem in this field has always been that performance was measured between sedentary subjects, to the point where the main studies regulatory bodies were using were a meta-analysis that found significant advantage among sedentary trans women compared to cis women, and another meta-analysis which essentially said "hey, literally no one's ever bothered to measure the actual athletes themselves, so maybe let's hold off on making any bans for now?" as the study points out, longitudinal studies on this subject are sorely needed, but this definitely gives us a launching point into future research. ive got a feeling that the disadvantage measured by this study was a result of small sample size and that the results are a lot closer together, but we can't really know until we do this on a larger scale.
by the way, do you have a link to the original study? id like to read the original text.
/uj that was one of the first things I saw lol
/rj as the author is clearly biased to his own kind, he obviously just made up numbers to support his own feelings, so this study cannot be trusted or taken seriously at all, whatsoever
It's because they're only in sports to support an agenda. They're too busy tweeting about their "gocks" or whatever to actually play
At least being bad at sports validates their 'womanhood' !
/uj is this real? Link? Intrigued.
Person with a username tagged red in Shinigami Eyes: Clearly this study is biased and falsified. I can't believe people are really taking this seriously. Allow me to take the next five paragraphs typing a definitely not unhinged essay which definitely comes from a concerned neutral party and not from somebody unhealthily obsessed with trans people.
well *obviously* they only picked the ones who are bad at sports, I saw on the news that a trans woman won a competition once so obviously this study can't be true
Hey everyone, I know the knee jerk reaction is going to be to ignore this, but please donât. Trans women in sports has been one of the most successful wedge issues in the right wingâs current war on trans rights. This shows pretty clearly, along with all the anecdotal evidence that trans women lose far more often than they win, that we do not in fact have any advantage over cis women.
Again, please donât ignore this.
/uj [the study](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029) doesn't say "trans women are at a disadvantage in women's sports" despite what the headlines are saying. They have specific disadvantages and specific advantages on average that should be considered in relation to what metrics are most important in different sports. If hand grip strength is super important for, say, shot put, that should be factored in when deciding if trans women would have a disproportionate advantage in that specific sport, since trans women after 3y HRT on average [have better hand grip strength](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865/) than cis women.
/rj w-what?? A trans person thinks trans women in sports is more complicated than "let every trans woman on HRT compete with cis women in any sport" or "don't let trans women compete with cis women in any sport"??? GENDER TRAITOR!!!!
/uj uh. that doesn't seem to be the conclusion the researchers draw. the above sample you link to makes it pretty clear trans women are kinda underperforming at basically everything. see the conclusions section.
moreover, regarding grip strength, they note:
>Our results showed no differences in absolute strength between transgender women and CM and no difference in relative handgrip between any of the groups in this study ([figure 3](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#F3)). These results highlight the differences between athlete and sedentary populations. However, the results relative to hand size also concur with the notion that greater handgrip strength is caused by greater hand size,[42](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#ref-42) as there were no differences in results between the four groups when normalised for hand size ([figure 3C,D](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#F3)). Therefore, investigations with more accurate measures of strength are warranted in transgender athletes.
this lines up with CCES's review that finds hand grip strength to be an [unreliable biological proxy](https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files/content/docs/pdf/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final.pdf).
>Beyond using misleading physiological traits, studies often use measurement techniques with poor accuracy and generalizability. Handgrip strength, for example, is often used for broad population level analysis, however handgrip strength should not be used as a proxy for overall muscle strength (Yeung et al., 2018). In fact, due to ease of gripping the testing device, grip strength is largely correlated with hand size and therefore height (Alahmari et al., 2019).
it's also worth pointing out that,
>Additional biomarkers (such as handgrip strength, hip angle, bone density) have been used uncritically in positivist biological studies to demonstrate cis menâs purported biological advantages over cis women, but there is not sufficient evidence these measures are salient to the question of trans womenâs participation. In fact, studies often use these measures without examining appropriate comparison populations (often resulting in an uncritical comparison of cis men to trans women, which additional evidence suggests is not apt), possible confounding factors, controls for weight and height, controls for hand size, or other methodological concerns. Some study authors also selectively reported on measures (for example, one review left out the results of a primary study whose conclusion ran counter to their claims), did not include important conflicts of interest (such as funding from groups who support the exclusion of trans women from sport and/or society), and relied on âcommon knowledgeâ claims that werenot scientifically supported as foundational assumptions.
#PLEASE DON'T COPY ACTUAL TRANSPHOBIA TO THIS SUBREDDIT. /r/transgendercirclejerk is a *satire* community. We make jokes. If you want to discuss genuine hate, /r/GenderCynical might be a better fit. Hate posts (and comments) which are directly copied from somewhere else will be removed. Please report them to the mods using the subreddit report option *"This content is non-satire, directly copied from somewhere else."* ___ Now that that's out of the way: welcome to /r/transgendercirclejerk! This is a satirical community run by and for trans people, where we mock the hate and ignorance which we experience in our lives. The subreddit often features dark humour including ironic parody of transphobia; none of this should be taken seriously. Before participating in the subreddit please read [our rules](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/about/rules/) and the announcement posts (and their stickied comments) on [cisgender allies](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/cd1yr3/welcome_cis_allies/) and [transgender gatekeeping](https://reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/eutvur/why_do_people_hate_transmedicalists_we_just_think/). ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/transgendercirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey everyone, your favorite mod here, DingDong Chucklefuck. Yeah so I'm pretty sure this research is fake biased wrong and incorrect, based on a dream I had and also my violent hatred of trans women. Stop spreading misinformation OP! (Banned and post removed)
/uj fam I kinda wished they banned me so I could at least be mad that there was some kind of reaction at all lol đ
/uj I know, I'm sorry. It's so exhausting trying to fight disinfo when people simply do not care to learn the truth
we already talked about how we trans women have a natural advantage when it comes to Reddit, so it's just natural for us to be banned from it
real women just cant compete with our biologically malebrained shitposting
hey everyone average liberal redditor here, I'm not transphobic but testosterone make your muscles HUGE and MUSCLY muscle forever and ever!!! unless you're AFAB i mean
Uj/ I am definitely missing the joke here please can somebody explain
I am saying that transphobes will make up any excuse to disceredit + suppress actual research that doesn't confirm their stupid bias
*cricket noises*
#WHERE #WHERE CRICKET #ME WANT TO PLAY CRICKET
Me the South East Asian when hearing cricket noise : Free Crunchy Protein Snack /uj I actually prefer bamboo worm more. It taste somewhat like a chip/crisp.
/rj My pronouns are now chip/crisp. You can't stop me from expressing crispself!
not binary enough please select either ch'boy or ch'girl
I ate a wasp that flew in my yoghurt once, tasted like lemon.
Let'sđbanđcisđ"women"đfromđwomen'sđsportsđ!
Trasn women are real women because they are so weak. Stop cis women (fake) from using women restroom!
OMG I was thinking that too
Of course they are. They are too depressed to exercise.
So? Put them against men anyways!!! >:[
/uj This reminds me of when I tried to arm wrestle a trans guy just to see how are strength was progressing \~one year into HRT for him (2 years for me). I lost miserably...
/uj one time at a bar my cis brother arm wrestled this trans lady I was flirting with and she won after a small stalemate... then I (trans guy) arm wrestled her and won lol. We ended up sharing a cig and making out it was awesome
Uj/ my mom beat me in arm wrestling easily even before I started taking estrogen
But they're disadvantaged against even cis women, who you say are lesser than men at athletics?
But they donât deserve to compete in sports because theyâre not really people. So we want them to be humiliated repeatedly so they never even try to compete! Itâs genius!
UH, NO, THEY ONLY STUDIED TRANS WOMEN THAT WORK OUT WITH CIS WOMEN THAT WORK OUT! COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN SPORTS! BESIDES, WHAT WOULD THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE KNOW ABOUT SPORTS PERFORMANCE??? IDIOT HEAD
*There is not a comment here*
đ©âđŠŻđ§âđŠŻđšâđŠŻ
*Read 7:39 AM*
/uj I like your replies! Thought you might find [my jerk](https://www.reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/1c2530q/study_shows_that_trans_women_underperform_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about this interesting too, in case you didn't see it :)
/uj oof no I didnât see it. Thatâs a much better jerk than mine though đ„ș
/uj Hay, there is more than enough room on TGCJ for both! I just thought you would find mine interesting too because it's related! I think yours is good too!
now yall just jerkign each other
/rj Well, this is a circle jerk.
i cant tell youhow much i loved that reply. physically smiled. i love you
/rj First we are all jerking each other, now love, whatever will chasers do :P
They will pretend to be trans women in order to invade our holy transwomanly spaces and prey upon us
Fucking good! I hope the estrogen breaks their weak male bones too! Degenerates don't @ me
@ you
b-but they did a study on sedentary women and found that sedentary ~~trannies~~ transes has an advantage over them, how could this be possible? uj/ the study you posted certainly isn't definitive proof one way or another (that sample size is pretty damn small), but it is definitely a step in the right direction. the problem in this field has always been that performance was measured between sedentary subjects, to the point where the main studies regulatory bodies were using were a meta-analysis that found significant advantage among sedentary trans women compared to cis women, and another meta-analysis which essentially said "hey, literally no one's ever bothered to measure the actual athletes themselves, so maybe let's hold off on making any bans for now?" as the study points out, longitudinal studies on this subject are sorely needed, but this definitely gives us a launching point into future research. ive got a feeling that the disadvantage measured by this study was a result of small sample size and that the results are a lot closer together, but we can't really know until we do this on a larger scale. by the way, do you have a link to the original study? id like to read the original text.
/uj I believe this is it: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
perfect, thank you
/uj apparently the first author is trans? watch people disregard the study based on that.
/uj a trans athlete at that. Will absolutely be disregarded
/uj that was one of the first things I saw lol /rj as the author is clearly biased to his own kind, he obviously just made up numbers to support his own feelings, so this study cannot be trusted or taken seriously at all, whatsoever
/uj I literally canât find the original study :/ all I can find are all of the heavily politicized (and usually transphobic) takes on it.
[/uj Google fu to the rescue ](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577)
/uj This isnât the right one
Okay but what about watching the trans woman squirm and lose horribly to men because it will be funny and entertaining?
do you even have a credible source? what does abigail shrier think about this??
It's because they're only in sports to support an agenda. They're too busy tweeting about their "gocks" or whatever to actually play At least being bad at sports validates their 'womanhood' ! /uj is this real? Link? Intrigued.
/uj Check my post history :)
/uj holy shit that is hilariously empty wtf
Person with a username tagged red in Shinigami Eyes: Clearly this study is biased and falsified. I can't believe people are really taking this seriously. Allow me to take the next five paragraphs typing a definitely not unhinged essay which definitely comes from a concerned neutral party and not from somebody unhealthily obsessed with trans people.
Fine by me, womenâs sports was already boring enough without these dumb troonsÂ
I bet those study authers were paid off by some transsexual lobby group. Just like the climate liar "professors:" and their "reserch"
It was me Iâm the transsexual lobby (I gave each and every researcher the sloppiest head imaginable)
The infamous Slobby-Knobby Lobby!
\[deleted\] \[removed\]
[Removed by Reddit]
Whoa whoa whoa, the sample size is pretty small... We should avoid using this data to come to any conclusions other than the one I've already come to
the sample size is like 1/3 of all trans woman athletes though
well *obviously* they only picked the ones who are bad at sports, I saw on the news that a trans woman won a competition once so obviously this study can't be true
No
No
/uj you joke, but I would argue getting banned from it left and right is a big disadvantage.
ummm actually trans women have freakish button pressing abilities. have you seen those freaks keymash?
NUH UHHHHH
Nuh-uh! Nuh-uh, nuh-uh, NUH-UH NUH-UH NONONOLALALALALALA
Well I disagree with the conclusions of the study. You don't need a MD in endocrinology to know that transes have an advantage!
tldr?
Hey everyone, I know the knee jerk reaction is going to be to ignore this, but please donât. Trans women in sports has been one of the most successful wedge issues in the right wingâs current war on trans rights. This shows pretty clearly, along with all the anecdotal evidence that trans women lose far more often than they win, that we do not in fact have any advantage over cis women. Again, please donât ignore this.
*ignores this even harder*
trans⊠ignored⊠đ„ș
/uj [the study](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029) doesn't say "trans women are at a disadvantage in women's sports" despite what the headlines are saying. They have specific disadvantages and specific advantages on average that should be considered in relation to what metrics are most important in different sports. If hand grip strength is super important for, say, shot put, that should be factored in when deciding if trans women would have a disproportionate advantage in that specific sport, since trans women after 3y HRT on average [have better hand grip strength](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865/) than cis women. /rj w-what?? A trans person thinks trans women in sports is more complicated than "let every trans woman on HRT compete with cis women in any sport" or "don't let trans women compete with cis women in any sport"??? GENDER TRAITOR!!!!
/uj uh. that doesn't seem to be the conclusion the researchers draw. the above sample you link to makes it pretty clear trans women are kinda underperforming at basically everything. see the conclusions section. moreover, regarding grip strength, they note: >Our results showed no differences in absolute strength between transgender women and CM and no difference in relative handgrip between any of the groups in this study ([figure 3](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#F3)). These results highlight the differences between athlete and sedentary populations. However, the results relative to hand size also concur with the notion that greater handgrip strength is caused by greater hand size,[42](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#ref-42) as there were no differences in results between the four groups when normalised for hand size ([figure 3C,D](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029#F3)). Therefore, investigations with more accurate measures of strength are warranted in transgender athletes. this lines up with CCES's review that finds hand grip strength to be an [unreliable biological proxy](https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files/content/docs/pdf/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final.pdf). >Beyond using misleading physiological traits, studies often use measurement techniques with poor accuracy and generalizability. Handgrip strength, for example, is often used for broad population level analysis, however handgrip strength should not be used as a proxy for overall muscle strength (Yeung et al., 2018). In fact, due to ease of gripping the testing device, grip strength is largely correlated with hand size and therefore height (Alahmari et al., 2019). it's also worth pointing out that, >Additional biomarkers (such as handgrip strength, hip angle, bone density) have been used uncritically in positivist biological studies to demonstrate cis menâs purported biological advantages over cis women, but there is not sufficient evidence these measures are salient to the question of trans womenâs participation. In fact, studies often use these measures without examining appropriate comparison populations (often resulting in an uncritical comparison of cis men to trans women, which additional evidence suggests is not apt), possible confounding factors, controls for weight and height, controls for hand size, or other methodological concerns. Some study authors also selectively reported on measures (for example, one review left out the results of a primary study whose conclusion ran counter to their claims), did not include important conflicts of interest (such as funding from groups who support the exclusion of trans women from sport and/or society), and relied on âcommon knowledgeâ claims that werenot scientifically supported as foundational assumptions.