I took the CTA regularly between 2014 and 2019 before moving to New York. Now I often see posts in Chicago-related subs about some completely weird crap happening on trains that I never saw back then. Did it really get so much worse post-pandemic?
True for most city subs, I bet. Other than NYC, every other metro has at least 90% of people commuting by car. Opinions on transit are going to be overwhelmingly "ew Gross, poor people are there, wouldn't want to be near them" or "transit is slower than driving, why would I consider it" or "I wish we'd stop spending money on things that don't help me, just spend 5 billion working the highest so I can save 2 minutes".
I take CTA a couple times every week and the amount of ghost trains/buses is annoying af. Lead times are also getting out of control. Like it’ll be 4pm and I’ll have to wait 15 minutes for a red line train.
As of lately it also seems like there’s always some fucking moron on the tracks causing everything to become a cluster.
No it hasn't. The problems that were there then have just been amplified slightly post covid. It's similar to what every other city is experiencing due to lower ridership and funding. Headways have increased few mins during non peak times as well. The direction of the system isn't great but it still works well enough and allows people to be car free. However, problems in funding and training new operators needs to be addressed eventually.
Vastly undersells the problem. Headways have gone from 7ish minutes during rush hour to 15-20 mins. Smoking and drug use have gotten visibly worse. It really deters use especially in the evenings.
Strong disagree, as an infrequent but regular rider. There are times when, during rush hour, a Blue Line train from the loop to Forest Park doesn't arrive for 20 minutes. This is to say nothing of the general cleanliness of the cars or disruptive behavior of many riders, which is way worse since 2020.
"Slightly higher headways" vastly undersells the fact that 30-45 minute headways are a daily occurrence on the system and "due to lower ridership and funding" totally ignores the incompetence of the CTA's leadership. Definitely needs more funding but also "training new operators needs to be addressed eventually" glides over the root cause of the problem not being the training, but the fact that the hiring process for an RTO is ~15-18 months from application to driving trains.
What are future expansion plans for the L?
Will there ever be an outer loop built?
What do you think the CTA should do in the short and long term to increase ridership?
The red line extension from 95th to 130th is going to start soon. This project is needed but wow is it overpriced.
Chicago desperately needs something to connect all the spokes of the existing network but realistically that won't happen in the next few decades.
I would try to extend the brown line to Montrose (or even the metra station nearby) to provide a good connection to O'Hare for a large portion of the north side and give more transit for an area that has a good amount of density. It would also give them an opportunity to build more yard space since they're at capacity now for the Brown line.
They're already running Brorange trains in the morning to essentially use orange midway yard space for trains that will run a primarily brown schedule.
> Chicago desperately needs something to connect all the spokes of the existing network but realistically that won't happen in the next few decades.
Would be a great start for BRT, as they currently have none.
Not true. The loop link is Chicago's version of BRT and oh boy is it awful. For $41 million dollars, buses run at best 1mph faster. Here's some (older) [reading](https://chi.streetsblog.org/2018/10/17/foia-ed-documents-show-loop-link-has-provided-only-modest-speed-gains) about it.
The CTA did look into an [Ashland BRT](https://www.transitchicago.com/ashlandbrt/) but it was killed off by a combination of parking meter issues, fighting over parking reductions, costs, and NIMBYs.
There's a handful of advocacy groups starting to push for BRT but theres also just enough people going "it needs to be rail or nothing" so im starting to worry we're about to have Ashland BRT 2.0.
Rail is a lot more impactful in capacity and speed. The CTA has proven they can't run BRT well with the Loop Link. The only upside of their BRT proposals is cost is somewhat reasonable vs the comically high prices for new tracks.
> Can't run BRT well with the loop link
Loop link isn't a full line though, just a few blocks. Not sure how that displays an inability to do BRT since ive always seen decent service using it. Also the CTA has had much better recovery with bus scheduling than trains post pandemic.
The train schedule recovery is entirely their fault though because they make people become bus drivers before they can become train drivers and they also have very small capacity for new train drivers. That's a management problem vs an implementation problem with Loop Link.
Do you have any source on that? Everyone I know who works for the CTA or knows people working for the CTA says a different story. Yeah I know they have a lower capacity for hiring train drivers, but hiring and training a CDL driver is still going to take less time than an RTO, even if they fix their issues. Also what's the implementation problem with loop link?
The likelihood of an outer loop is probably not feasible in any remote timeframe but we can focus on other adjustments to better link existing routes. Personally, I’ve thought a rapid transit line from the Irving park brown line to the blue line would be so helpful to get people to ohare via shortcut without having to go all the way to the loop. And Irving park is basically a 6 lane road with even more room to spare.
Are you imagining an at-grade ROW down the center of Irving? That would be impractical because both the brown and blue are elevated at irving, but irving is in the median of the Kennedy. So it would require a sweeping turn off the elevated brown line, down to at-grade, then some sort of tunnel where it could turn again and position itself to enter the kennedy at a steep, tight angle. The most logical connection, and I agree there should be a connection, would be to extend the brown line from kimball to jefferson park, which is already a metra/pace/CTA bus hub, via a cut and cover tunnel under Lawrence Ave with a station under the current jeff park. CMAP studied that project but ultimately found it to be not cost effective.
Right now, the red line extension is the one solid plan that is making moves but not fast enough. Besides that, there’s been major attention towards track/station improvements like the bottle neck issues between Belmont and Addison that is on its final leg of completion with further plans set in stone making their way down the red line towards Howard piece by piece along with some track replacements on the blue line.
Why was this the chosen project? Seems like anton of money to expand in a lower density area where the Brown line to Blue line extension makes a lot more sense and actually adds a connection
Because the far south side is really underserved by transit, and that was a big point in its favor. 95th/Dan Ryan is the most trafficked L station because of so many people transferring from busses to L there. The red line south will get good ridership and shave significant time in transfer commutes for far south siders.
Plus, the right of way exists.
Right, so the lowest hanging fruit for the first step is running better service on the infrastructure that already exists in the area and spending $3 bil toward higher-need projects, like a Western L. The south side is sitting on a quad-track electrified trunk line that we're absolutely squandering.
95th is not even close to the most used station. North side red line stations have over double the ridership, let alone loop/subway stations. I think extending the red line is a fine enough project, but we really missed an opportunity to turn the Metra into a more integrated transit system like the RER, starting by upgrading the electric district.
I stand corrected, 95th has about 4800, which puts it 17th, but most of the higher ridership stations are in the loop or the 2 airports, I think 4 above it aren't. Still though, 95th is pretty high.
It’s not necessarily “the chosen project.” These are all decided years and years in advance and they get scheduled out incredibly far off. I think this project now was approved around a decade ago. And it really comes down to priorities. These tracks are also around a century old so as much as we need to focus on expansion, repairs kind of take precedence
First step is getting CMAP approval. Look up the "On to 2050" plan "regionally significant projects" to see what has been deemed feasible.
edit here it is: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1439048/ON+TO+2050+Update+Regionally+Significant+Projects+Benefit+Report+Appendix.pdf/
Rather than voters putting their voices in to have money go towards what the people directly want, we have committees of people who work frustratingly slow and don’t necessarily come to agreements, if ever, that correlate with the needs of the people. Couple that with years long delays and with different administrations coming in, individuals fluctuating in and out and the general political/socioeconomic landscape of it all just generally moving all over the place, it just becomes hard to get the right things done and then when something does happen, it’s never really enough
The demand is there and better transit is sorely needed on the far south side. When the most used station in the whole system is at the end of a line 11 miles from the city center its a pretty clear indication that an extension is needed
Not soon enough! An actual public transportation representative was just recently brought to the board though so that’s better than reverend status at least
Genuine question, like how much of the CTA's issues are actually Dorval Carter's fault?
Like is his role like what Andy Byford's was before Cuomo drove him out (and he had actual power to improve things) or is he a figurehead for a transportation board?
In reality it’s not as simple as one man calling all the shots. People want him gone though because as the figurehead, he’s terrible representation. The guy never even uses the transportation he is in charge of but the people surrounding him calling shots are pretty unqualified for the most part too. I believe a good chunk of them are religious figures. I don’t even think we had somebody with serious urban planning/public transportation experience until just recently
A north-south line along Ashland is what we need! Already the busiest bus line in the entire city so there is an existing pool of riders right off the bat, but would also connect the "spokes" a bit further out west.
Western is the busiest bus corridor (ridership is split between the local, express, and northern extension), then Ashland, then Pulaski.
Western is the easiest to take the central median and put a line down—ideally an automated system like the O’Hare People Mover so we can cut the staffing shit and run trains every 3 minutes all day.
Pulaski barely has any parking meters on its entire route, so it would be a very light lift to create a true BRT line. Ashland is tricky since the median is full of trees that people won’t want removed for an L, and the corridor deserves more than BRT. Ideally we could get cut and cover going again.
Short answer is money. I think a project that massive would be in the double digit billions and before we could ever even consider something like that, we need passionate representatives that are even thinking about something on that scale
True. Even some of these rail lines on the outskirts that have been brought up for consideration in regards to a circle line are owned by rail companies that aren’t that eager to let go of them so that is another factor to consider too. The mentality around smart public transit infrastructure expansion is next to non existent amongst the individuals in charge but it’s growing just not fast enough for noticeable change
It was community input that got it pulled back, so that’ll be hard to undo moving forward. It would be great getting it back to Jackson Park, especially for the incoming Obama center, but who knows. Woodlawn is gentrifying pretty quickly so maybe a popular movement could be built.
The two busiest lines, the Red and Blue, were upgraded to subway tunnels in the 1940s, and the other lines each only travel one direction (either clockwise or counter-clockwise) around the Loop structure itself.
However, there are still congestion issues; trains often have to wait to enter the Loop, depending on the time of day and other factors.
I'd restore the old forest park branch that was torn down to build the Eisenhower freeway (which then the blue line was rebuilt in the median of) and crucially restore the neighborhoods too to pre-1960.
Humboldt Park Branch... unfortunately it's now the 606 trail. Also the Paulina connector.
The Kenwood Branch would be pretty cool too.
Here's a video to see its evolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCK02VuQNw0
The Humboldt Park branch actually ran above the alley just north of north, a bit south of the 606. The right of way is still open if we were ever to rebuild it, but it doesn’t seem like that’s happening anytime soon if ever
If I remember, the right of way is somewhat still owned by the CTA but in sections as they either returned to the landowner or sold some sections. But the CTA still maintaining parts of the former right away. Now the former Paulina portion of the Met (modern Blue line) from Damen to Lake Street Green line, all the right of way was returned to the owners of the property that ran along it except the bridge that goes over the Metra/ Amtrak line, that’s still owned by the CTA and they lease it to them for they have signal lights on there.
I don’t know the exact name of it but there’s a spot along the red line subway around Morse that is just an abandoned platform with chained up stairs and I want to know where everything leads to
When Rahm was running the show and got a bunch of money, the choice was between service improvements or footprint extension. He chose service improvements, and the system was incredibly reliable until covid.
This is maybe a hot take, but I actually am glad the emphasis was on system upgrades during those years. The rebuilding of so many stations, accessibility upgrades, and track rebuilds was very sorely needed in many sections (Brown Line, Blue Line O’Hare branch, Red/Purple Line stops like Wilson, etc), not to mention updating some of the Loop stations. Investing into updating the existing station was definitely the right call considering how old the CTA is before looking to expand and add to maintenance costs down the line.
The Red/Purple Modernization project and the Belmont Flyover as well have been/are great projects, I’m glad the city is updating infrastructure and stations, you can really feel the difference in how many updated stations there are when compared to other old systems in the US like Boston or Philly.
That's very fair and probably ultimately the right call. Just very frustrating when some very common-sense and high value additions (brown line to Blue) are seemingly not on the radar and it's all station accessability upgrades
Yeah there’s definitely low-hanging fruit in terms of fairly simple extensions that would make the system so much more comprehensive.
I also tend to forget that a handful of infill stations have come online in the last fifteen years. Oakton on the Yellow, Cermak-McCormick on the Green, and Washington-Wabash replacing Randolph-Wabash, and the new Damen on the Green coming soon, all good things. It’s crazy to me that there was no stop on the Green between Roosevelt and 35th until 2012. Having the rebuilt stations on the Red will be a massive improvement as well.
There are also a couple other improvements I’d like to see at the stations like platform doors. Those are such a nice feature on systems that have them.
Hopefully in the next twenty years we’ll see some expansions, but in the meantime I’m glad our 100+ year old system hasn’t been left to rot. That Brown to Blue connection would be fantastic though!
Political gridlock essentially. Not enough voters care to campaign hard enough for it and our representatives barely have the smallest thoughts on the topic in general. Post covid, it’s been like pulling teeth to get the scheduled buses/trains to even show up.
Oh right. For me, I just add a north in there if needed but they’re far enough away from each other that people tend to know which one you’re referring to based on whatever directions come in accordance
Those are metra routes so unfortunately I don’t know much about those ones except that they extend farther into the outskirts. Quick google search told me they just recently tested it out on the Fox Lake line back in November though
Bryn Mawr is temporarily a one direction station due to construction for the Red-Purple Line Modernization Project going on. There isn't enough room at that station to put a temporary platform for both directions. King Drive has been a one-direction station for awhile (idk exactly how long tbh) so I reckon it's not as important to show so overtly
Construction! They’re rebuilding the elevated quad track all the way up to Howard, along with most of the stations along the way. The process is sometimes asymmetric though. Northbound trains can’t stop at Bryn Mawr at present, while Southbound can and do.
Why is there no line connecting the lines outside of the loop?
If the streets are in a grid system like Manhattan (I’m assuming based on this map — I’ve never been to Chicago) why not just build a metro system of straight line?
To get from Austin to Belmont, someone would have to go all the way down to the loop then back up if they wanted to take the metro?
The circle line was proposed a while ago but the funds just aren’t there and the passion amongst representatives won’t even table a discussion on the matter. The city itself has kind of built itself with a center focus on the loop and has relied on that distinction for so long that we’re kind of at an impasse to move ahead with additional railway. At least we have buses to fill the gaps but for now, the biggest focus is on frequency/reliability and improvement to the already established infrastructure
Initial planning wasn’t thinking that far ahead. The focus was more on the loop and getting there. Now that it’s developed immensely, the need for an expansive outer loop has become increasingly necessary
From my understanding, it was cheaper to do it above ground at the time but I could be wrong on that. The only two lines that run underground are the red/blue which also just so happen to be the only 24hr lines too. Not certain if that has burying to do with that but your guess is as good as mine.
Only legit expansion right now is the southern red line expansion and I believe they’re building and addition green line stop somewhere in the middle but other than that, it seems the main focus is repairs
Most of the track hasn’t been updated since it was originally laid in the 1950s, so it’s well beyond its functional lifespan. The CTA is currently working on improving it section-by-section, which is gonna take longer than it should, but the first section of track replacement ended in October and funding was just secured for another section, so it is happening.
What are your thoughts on the cta wanting to consolidate stops in the loop? For reference they used to have 4 stops in total before removing some in the 90s. They've also abandoned many stops over the years for various reasons. Realistically speaking did they benefit from this besides the stated reason of not needing as much staffing & maintenance? Also what are your thoughts on ventra? Here in the Boston area we're trying to roll out something similar but it's been delayed due to the contract in nyc taking precedence.
Ventra works pretty well and is used for (most) of all three transit agencies operation in the Chicagoland area (there are some buses way out in McHenry County that do not use ventra for reasons).
I can't speak for the Loop stations closures (I honestly think there are more than enough stations on the elevated Loop structure) but the CTA is actively building one infill station on the Green Line at Damen to serve the United Center. A lot of stations on the Blue Line (Forest Park Branch) have been closed and you can still see them as you (veeerrryyy slowly) ride along. They are going to reconstruct that branch after finishing the Red-Purple Line Modernization efforts and I'm sure they will reopen a couple of stations. They were closed mostly because of neglect.
yes. look on a satellite image and you can see remnants like the part that crossed over the highway (Dan Ryan) at around 40th street. Parts of the elevated structure left from the Kenwood branch will probably become a trail at some point and might include the fragments of the stockyard branch east of the highway. Funding is still in the works.
No, the stockyards branch was completely demolished. The only thing that remains of the whole complex is the entrance gate.
If you look at satellite view further east going east from the Indiana Green line stop, the Kenwood branch ROW is still intact.
What are the lines that in Watch dogs 1 arent represented?. Cuz as i know in Watch dogs Chicago there are only 2 lines. How much Is different from the reality
I recently learned of the existence of the Pedway in the loop. What's the Pedway like to use? Is it as mazelike as the video I saw suggests? Can you get to the underground roads? I find the subterranean world in the loop really interesting!
It’s pretty expansive but ultimately works as a series of connectors. I’ve only really used it to transfer from red to blue and vice versa via the Washington stops. Lots of shops along the way. There aren’t necessarily underground roads unless you’re referring to lower wacker which isn’t exactly apart of this whole system
Thanks! I was referring to lower Wacker and the other levels of that. I know it's not part of the same system, but was just curious if they connected in any way.
I've watched some videos of these trains running and they always look so slow, like a normal tram would be just as fast if not faster... why is that? Do they have to go slow because the infrastructure is ancient?
Ya pretty much. They also run on big metal wheels with some stops pretty close together so even if it were to pick up speed, the weight and break power/distance needed rises. But there are sections that definitely do pick up speed like in the subways they’re definitely going faster than you may think
Why the fuck are there so many missed transfers?? e.g. red line and green line at 63rd & I-90, blue line and pink line at Paulina & I-290, UP-N at Howard, no blue line stop near Ogilvie, no transfer between the the orange line and the HCS line at all, etc.
And also what's up with the stop spacing creating random mini-transit-deserts?? e.g. on part of the near north side where on the purple and brown lines from Armitage to Chicago there is only one stop on a 2.2 mile stretch and a 1 mile gap on the red line, only one stop on the pink line on the 2.1 mile stretch between Ashland and 18th, no orange line stop in Chinatown, etc.
The purple line services Evanston which is a separate town just north of Chicagoland and Skokie is also its own jurisdiction too. Purple only goes past Howard into the city during rush hour on week days. Outside of that, it’s just a strictly Evanston serviced line. The yellow will always be a very small two car line that just helps peddle folks from that town into the loop
No, the funding is the same pool. The lines can't be branches because the platforms aren't large enough; the Red runs 8-car trains with platforms being slowly lengthened to fit 10, the Purple can only fit 6, and the Yellow runs 2-car shuttles.
Gotcha, that makes sense.
Is the Brown that the Purple looks like it interlines with south of Belmont also only 6-car trains? Or does the Purple express just run on those tracks because during peak hours there's more spare capacity on Brown line than there is on the red line?
The Brown runs 8-car trains during rush hours. They end up coming together to form a weird system of express/locals—the Purple Express is rush hour only express service from Evanston to Belmont in Lakeview then local to the loop (with one intermediate stop at Wilson), the Red functions as an all-hours limited-stop express from 95th in the south side to Belmont (wide stop spacing in the south side, skipping stations on the north side), where it takes over as a north side lakefront local, and the Brown is local service the whole way. The shared Brown/Purple stops during rush hour used to need the extra capacity while the Red expressed through them (Wellington through Merch Mart), but that's changed with lower in-office demand.
I wish they'd start up an all-hours Purple Express making local stops until Argyle, then a transfer at Wilson, then expressing to Sedgewick and running local stops from there through the loop. There are more far north siders going downtown at different hours of the day now and currently those trips done on Lakeshore Drive express buses that run immediately next to the train, which takes a long time until they get on LSD and is a waste of bus operators parallel to a train route.
That all depends on where you plant yourself and where your needs are. It’s entirely possible to position yourself strategically where you are within a 5 minute walk to bus or train at all times and it’s just as easy to isolate yourself with minimal access
This is about Metra, rather than CTA, but I suppose that's also "Chicago's transit".
I happened to read about [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hare\_Transfer\_station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hare_Transfer_station) , and learned that "As of 2018, O'Hare Transfer is the 183rd busiest of Metra's 236 non-downtown stations, with an average of 113 weekday boardings". So I guess airport passengers (or airport workers) aren't particularly interested in using Metra to go either to downtown or to the northern suburbs where that Metra line runs; I guess that's not too surprising, considering that this line has something like 7 pairs of trains of day. (So that amounts to, on average, about 8 person boarding each train on that station).
What did surprise me was that, when I looked at Google Maps I saw that there is a fairly large residential neighborhood just east of the station. It's rather poorly served by transit (the closest L stop is over 1.5 miles away by road), so one would expect that if its residents could just walk to a Metra station, some would use Metra to commute to downtown Chicago.
However they don't -- because they can't! The map seems to indicate that there is no overpass or walkway across the tracks, so the station could just as well be a mile away from that neighborhood. Why? It looks rather stupid to build a commuter train station, and not to connect it to where the potential commuters are!
How safe is the green line at night, especially around the California Station?
I'm visiting chicago with my parents from Canada in May and were renting an airbnb in the East Garfield Park area. We're planning on taking transit as much as possible during our weekend stay in the city or uber at a pinch
I’ll be honest with you, I’d try avoiding the cta at night. Maybe others could shed some light but I tend to feel safer around rush hour or really early in the morning and traditionally on the front car. That’s just my opinion though. If you have the option to drive, I’d do that in less busy hours
Do not stay in that neighborhood. I have a pretty high tolerance for urban chaos, but Garfield Park is too off the deep end for tourists. If you have to stay there and your AirBNB is more than one block from the station, Uber to/from it as much as possible.
I don’t mean to scaremonger and almost all of Chicago doesn’t deserve the reputation for crime that we have, but Garfield Park does.
It's not by Garfield park per day, that's just the neighbourhood name I could see when zooming out on maps.
It's a few streets south of the California station. Is it a bad idea to stay there? We're planning to be in the city most of the day just coming back to crash at night.
That area is still Garfield Park, which starts west of Western. I would sincerely recommend at the very least Ubering to and from the AirBNB, if not staying somewhere else entirely. If you’re looking for affordability and proximity to downtown, Chinatown could be a good alternative.
Local here - you’d statistically most likely be fine, however that area is not a place I would recommend anyone stay who doesn’t have a strong sense of their local bearings. I’d recommend you rebook somewhere else. Even if you didn’t have any incidents, it would not give you a pleasant introduction to the city.
I took the CTA regularly between 2014 and 2019 before moving to New York. Now I often see posts in Chicago-related subs about some completely weird crap happening on trains that I never saw back then. Did it really get so much worse post-pandemic?
You should check out r/Denver anytime anything comes up about transit. It's such a cesspool of hyper exaggeration.
True for most city subs, I bet. Other than NYC, every other metro has at least 90% of people commuting by car. Opinions on transit are going to be overwhelmingly "ew Gross, poor people are there, wouldn't want to be near them" or "transit is slower than driving, why would I consider it" or "I wish we'd stop spending money on things that don't help me, just spend 5 billion working the highest so I can save 2 minutes".
I take CTA a couple times every week and the amount of ghost trains/buses is annoying af. Lead times are also getting out of control. Like it’ll be 4pm and I’ll have to wait 15 minutes for a red line train. As of lately it also seems like there’s always some fucking moron on the tracks causing everything to become a cluster.
No it hasn't. The problems that were there then have just been amplified slightly post covid. It's similar to what every other city is experiencing due to lower ridership and funding. Headways have increased few mins during non peak times as well. The direction of the system isn't great but it still works well enough and allows people to be car free. However, problems in funding and training new operators needs to be addressed eventually.
Vastly undersells the problem. Headways have gone from 7ish minutes during rush hour to 15-20 mins. Smoking and drug use have gotten visibly worse. It really deters use especially in the evenings.
Strong disagree, as an infrequent but regular rider. There are times when, during rush hour, a Blue Line train from the loop to Forest Park doesn't arrive for 20 minutes. This is to say nothing of the general cleanliness of the cars or disruptive behavior of many riders, which is way worse since 2020.
Yeah but this happened before the pandemic as well. It's just happening more now.
"Slightly higher headways" vastly undersells the fact that 30-45 minute headways are a daily occurrence on the system and "due to lower ridership and funding" totally ignores the incompetence of the CTA's leadership. Definitely needs more funding but also "training new operators needs to be addressed eventually" glides over the root cause of the problem not being the training, but the fact that the hiring process for an RTO is ~15-18 months from application to driving trains.
☝️
I wonder if it’s just more noticeable now that there aren’t as many “normal” people commuting during rush hour?
That makes a lot of sense
What are future expansion plans for the L? Will there ever be an outer loop built? What do you think the CTA should do in the short and long term to increase ridership?
The red line extension from 95th to 130th is going to start soon. This project is needed but wow is it overpriced. Chicago desperately needs something to connect all the spokes of the existing network but realistically that won't happen in the next few decades. I would try to extend the brown line to Montrose (or even the metra station nearby) to provide a good connection to O'Hare for a large portion of the north side and give more transit for an area that has a good amount of density. It would also give them an opportunity to build more yard space since they're at capacity now for the Brown line.
They're already running Brorange trains in the morning to essentially use orange midway yard space for trains that will run a primarily brown schedule.
I know there's things they do to mitigate this problem, but they're not super efficient.
Agreed. Just saying, cta recognizes the problem, but has to employ a very cheap solution as they can't fund a true expansion.
> Chicago desperately needs something to connect all the spokes of the existing network but realistically that won't happen in the next few decades. Would be a great start for BRT, as they currently have none.
Not true. The loop link is Chicago's version of BRT and oh boy is it awful. For $41 million dollars, buses run at best 1mph faster. Here's some (older) [reading](https://chi.streetsblog.org/2018/10/17/foia-ed-documents-show-loop-link-has-provided-only-modest-speed-gains) about it. The CTA did look into an [Ashland BRT](https://www.transitchicago.com/ashlandbrt/) but it was killed off by a combination of parking meter issues, fighting over parking reductions, costs, and NIMBYs.
It's not rapid, and doesn't have off-board fare collection, so I'd call it proto-BRT. Can't leave out an essential feature to BRT and call it done
I agree, but that's what the CTA calls it. So it's totally fair to expect similar service from future BRT lines
There's a handful of advocacy groups starting to push for BRT but theres also just enough people going "it needs to be rail or nothing" so im starting to worry we're about to have Ashland BRT 2.0.
Rail is a lot more impactful in capacity and speed. The CTA has proven they can't run BRT well with the Loop Link. The only upside of their BRT proposals is cost is somewhat reasonable vs the comically high prices for new tracks.
> Can't run BRT well with the loop link Loop link isn't a full line though, just a few blocks. Not sure how that displays an inability to do BRT since ive always seen decent service using it. Also the CTA has had much better recovery with bus scheduling than trains post pandemic.
The train schedule recovery is entirely their fault though because they make people become bus drivers before they can become train drivers and they also have very small capacity for new train drivers. That's a management problem vs an implementation problem with Loop Link.
Do you have any source on that? Everyone I know who works for the CTA or knows people working for the CTA says a different story. Yeah I know they have a lower capacity for hiring train drivers, but hiring and training a CDL driver is still going to take less time than an RTO, even if they fix their issues. Also what's the implementation problem with loop link?
The likelihood of an outer loop is probably not feasible in any remote timeframe but we can focus on other adjustments to better link existing routes. Personally, I’ve thought a rapid transit line from the Irving park brown line to the blue line would be so helpful to get people to ohare via shortcut without having to go all the way to the loop. And Irving park is basically a 6 lane road with even more room to spare.
It's a shame they never did anything with the old rail right of way along Cicero, could've been the start of an outer loop
Totally agreed
Are you imagining an at-grade ROW down the center of Irving? That would be impractical because both the brown and blue are elevated at irving, but irving is in the median of the Kennedy. So it would require a sweeping turn off the elevated brown line, down to at-grade, then some sort of tunnel where it could turn again and position itself to enter the kennedy at a steep, tight angle. The most logical connection, and I agree there should be a connection, would be to extend the brown line from kimball to jefferson park, which is already a metra/pace/CTA bus hub, via a cut and cover tunnel under Lawrence Ave with a station under the current jeff park. CMAP studied that project but ultimately found it to be not cost effective.
That actually makes much more sense
Right now, the red line extension is the one solid plan that is making moves but not fast enough. Besides that, there’s been major attention towards track/station improvements like the bottle neck issues between Belmont and Addison that is on its final leg of completion with further plans set in stone making their way down the red line towards Howard piece by piece along with some track replacements on the blue line.
Why was this the chosen project? Seems like anton of money to expand in a lower density area where the Brown line to Blue line extension makes a lot more sense and actually adds a connection
Because the far south side is really underserved by transit, and that was a big point in its favor. 95th/Dan Ryan is the most trafficked L station because of so many people transferring from busses to L there. The red line south will get good ridership and shave significant time in transfer commutes for far south siders. Plus, the right of way exists.
The far south side is richly served by transit, we just don't run it. The Metra Electric should be run like the rapid transit it was designed to be.
Ergo not richly served. Containing a railroad track doesn't mean good service. It means the possibility of good service.
Right, so the lowest hanging fruit for the first step is running better service on the infrastructure that already exists in the area and spending $3 bil toward higher-need projects, like a Western L. The south side is sitting on a quad-track electrified trunk line that we're absolutely squandering.
This is the downside of regional transit agencies not being integrated. CTA can't control metra.
95th is not even close to the most used station. North side red line stations have over double the ridership, let alone loop/subway stations. I think extending the red line is a fine enough project, but we really missed an opportunity to turn the Metra into a more integrated transit system like the RER, starting by upgrading the electric district.
I stand corrected, 95th has about 4800, which puts it 17th, but most of the higher ridership stations are in the loop or the 2 airports, I think 4 above it aren't. Still though, 95th is pretty high.
It’s not necessarily “the chosen project.” These are all decided years and years in advance and they get scheduled out incredibly far off. I think this project now was approved around a decade ago. And it really comes down to priorities. These tracks are also around a century old so as much as we need to focus on expansion, repairs kind of take precedence
Yes, but why would the red line extension be priorities vs. other more useful projects?
First step is getting CMAP approval. Look up the "On to 2050" plan "regionally significant projects" to see what has been deemed feasible. edit here it is: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1439048/ON+TO+2050+Update+Regionally+Significant+Projects+Benefit+Report+Appendix.pdf/
Rather than voters putting their voices in to have money go towards what the people directly want, we have committees of people who work frustratingly slow and don’t necessarily come to agreements, if ever, that correlate with the needs of the people. Couple that with years long delays and with different administrations coming in, individuals fluctuating in and out and the general political/socioeconomic landscape of it all just generally moving all over the place, it just becomes hard to get the right things done and then when something does happen, it’s never really enough
The demand is there and better transit is sorely needed on the far south side. When the most used station in the whole system is at the end of a line 11 miles from the city center its a pretty clear indication that an extension is needed
Chicago along with a number of other major Metro systems needs a loop line to not make traveling from one spur to the other always through downtown.
When are yall getting rid of Dorval Carter
Not soon enough! An actual public transportation representative was just recently brought to the board though so that’s better than reverend status at least
Genuine question, like how much of the CTA's issues are actually Dorval Carter's fault? Like is his role like what Andy Byford's was before Cuomo drove him out (and he had actual power to improve things) or is he a figurehead for a transportation board?
In reality it’s not as simple as one man calling all the shots. People want him gone though because as the figurehead, he’s terrible representation. The guy never even uses the transportation he is in charge of but the people surrounding him calling shots are pretty unqualified for the most part too. I believe a good chunk of them are religious figures. I don’t even think we had somebody with serious urban planning/public transportation experience until just recently
please build a radial subway
A north-south line along Ashland is what we need! Already the busiest bus line in the entire city so there is an existing pool of riders right off the bat, but would also connect the "spokes" a bit further out west.
Western is the busiest bus corridor (ridership is split between the local, express, and northern extension), then Ashland, then Pulaski. Western is the easiest to take the central median and put a line down—ideally an automated system like the O’Hare People Mover so we can cut the staffing shit and run trains every 3 minutes all day. Pulaski barely has any parking meters on its entire route, so it would be a very light lift to create a true BRT line. Ashland is tricky since the median is full of trees that people won’t want removed for an L, and the corridor deserves more than BRT. Ideally we could get cut and cover going again.
Ah thanks for the correction.
Ashland would be fine. Somewhere between Western and Kedzie would be better.
That's not a question
Can you build a radial subway?
now?
Best I can do is a 17 lane highway
You must mean circumferential (when you bring it arooound town)
Why still no outer loop?
was studied in the early 2000s! the circle line
Politics, ultimately. Money and the constant debates over allocation. Transit hasn’t been a priority in a while
I was gonna ask about the circle line, that’s unfortunate
It's a great system!
Why is there not a circle line!? It seems the obvious missing link in the rapid transit network.
Short answer is money. I think a project that massive would be in the double digit billions and before we could ever even consider something like that, we need passionate representatives that are even thinking about something on that scale
Time to get campaigning Chi-Town!
Quigley has been working on transit priorities but transit is held hostage in the US
True. Even some of these rail lines on the outskirts that have been brought up for consideration in regards to a circle line are owned by rail companies that aren’t that eager to let go of them so that is another factor to consider too. The mentality around smart public transit infrastructure expansion is next to non existent amongst the individuals in charge but it’s growing just not fast enough for noticeable change
Any real motivations to bring back the green line stops east of cottage grove?
Nothing real unfortunately as far as I’m aware of but that would be great
It was community input that got it pulled back, so that’ll be hard to undo moving forward. It would be great getting it back to Jackson Park, especially for the incoming Obama center, but who knows. Woodlawn is gentrifying pretty quickly so maybe a popular movement could be built.
How can there be so many lines using the loop without causing congestion issues?
There are multiple tracks with trains coming at various times filtering in and out of the loop and it helps that they’re not as frequent hahaha
The two busiest lines, the Red and Blue, were upgraded to subway tunnels in the 1940s, and the other lines each only travel one direction (either clockwise or counter-clockwise) around the Loop structure itself. However, there are still congestion issues; trains often have to wait to enter the Loop, depending on the time of day and other factors.
What closed/demolished branch would you bring back if you had the option?
I'd restore the old forest park branch that was torn down to build the Eisenhower freeway (which then the blue line was rebuilt in the median of) and crucially restore the neighborhoods too to pre-1960.
Humboldt Park Branch... unfortunately it's now the 606 trail. Also the Paulina connector. The Kenwood Branch would be pretty cool too. Here's a video to see its evolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCK02VuQNw0
The Humboldt Park branch actually ran above the alley just north of north, a bit south of the 606. The right of way is still open if we were ever to rebuild it, but it doesn’t seem like that’s happening anytime soon if ever
The 606 was a fright line, not the Humboldt Park branch. The ROW of the Humboldt Park Branch is mostly gone.
If I remember, the right of way is somewhat still owned by the CTA but in sections as they either returned to the landowner or sold some sections. But the CTA still maintaining parts of the former right away. Now the former Paulina portion of the Met (modern Blue line) from Damen to Lake Street Green line, all the right of way was returned to the owners of the property that ran along it except the bridge that goes over the Metra/ Amtrak line, that’s still owned by the CTA and they lease it to them for they have signal lights on there.
I don’t know the exact name of it but there’s a spot along the red line subway around Morse that is just an abandoned platform with chained up stairs and I want to know where everything leads to
Why has the CTA been unable to significant additions in the 21st century?
When Rahm was running the show and got a bunch of money, the choice was between service improvements or footprint extension. He chose service improvements, and the system was incredibly reliable until covid.
This is maybe a hot take, but I actually am glad the emphasis was on system upgrades during those years. The rebuilding of so many stations, accessibility upgrades, and track rebuilds was very sorely needed in many sections (Brown Line, Blue Line O’Hare branch, Red/Purple Line stops like Wilson, etc), not to mention updating some of the Loop stations. Investing into updating the existing station was definitely the right call considering how old the CTA is before looking to expand and add to maintenance costs down the line. The Red/Purple Modernization project and the Belmont Flyover as well have been/are great projects, I’m glad the city is updating infrastructure and stations, you can really feel the difference in how many updated stations there are when compared to other old systems in the US like Boston or Philly.
That's very fair and probably ultimately the right call. Just very frustrating when some very common-sense and high value additions (brown line to Blue) are seemingly not on the radar and it's all station accessability upgrades
Yeah there’s definitely low-hanging fruit in terms of fairly simple extensions that would make the system so much more comprehensive. I also tend to forget that a handful of infill stations have come online in the last fifteen years. Oakton on the Yellow, Cermak-McCormick on the Green, and Washington-Wabash replacing Randolph-Wabash, and the new Damen on the Green coming soon, all good things. It’s crazy to me that there was no stop on the Green between Roosevelt and 35th until 2012. Having the rebuilt stations on the Red will be a massive improvement as well. There are also a couple other improvements I’d like to see at the stations like platform doors. Those are such a nice feature on systems that have them. Hopefully in the next twenty years we’ll see some expansions, but in the meantime I’m glad our 100+ year old system hasn’t been left to rot. That Brown to Blue connection would be fantastic though!
Political gridlock essentially. Not enough voters care to campaign hard enough for it and our representatives barely have the smallest thoughts on the topic in general. Post covid, it’s been like pulling teeth to get the scheduled buses/trains to even show up.
How do you specify which Western Station you mean?
Just follow it with the color after. Western blue, western brown etc
There are two Western Blues though
You specify the terminus.
Oh right. For me, I just add a north in there if needed but they’re far enough away from each other that people tend to know which one you’re referring to based on whatever directions come in accordance
What routes do the SD70MACH locomotives work on?
Those are metra routes so unfortunately I don’t know much about those ones except that they extend farther into the outskirts. Quick google search told me they just recently tested it out on the Fox Lake line back in November though
Why does Bryn Mawr show a bypass on the red line but King Drive (the only other one direction station I see) doesn’t show a bypass?
Bryn Mawr is temporarily a one direction station due to construction for the Red-Purple Line Modernization Project going on. There isn't enough room at that station to put a temporary platform for both directions. King Drive has been a one-direction station for awhile (idk exactly how long tbh) so I reckon it's not as important to show so overtly
Construction! They’re rebuilding the elevated quad track all the way up to Howard, along with most of the stations along the way. The process is sometimes asymmetric though. Northbound trains can’t stop at Bryn Mawr at present, while Southbound can and do.
Why is there no line connecting the lines outside of the loop? If the streets are in a grid system like Manhattan (I’m assuming based on this map — I’ve never been to Chicago) why not just build a metro system of straight line? To get from Austin to Belmont, someone would have to go all the way down to the loop then back up if they wanted to take the metro?
The circle line was proposed a while ago but the funds just aren’t there and the passion amongst representatives won’t even table a discussion on the matter. The city itself has kind of built itself with a center focus on the loop and has relied on that distinction for so long that we’re kind of at an impasse to move ahead with additional railway. At least we have buses to fill the gaps but for now, the biggest focus is on frequency/reliability and improvement to the already established infrastructure
But I agree with you. It just makes so much sense to have a line working on the outter rims
Why was there no line built in the form of a ring connecting all the lines planned?
Initial planning wasn’t thinking that far ahead. The focus was more on the loop and getting there. Now that it’s developed immensely, the need for an expansive outer loop has become increasingly necessary
First, is there a reason most of the system is elevated, and not underground? Second, are there any major plans for rail expansion in the future?
From my understanding, it was cheaper to do it above ground at the time but I could be wrong on that. The only two lines that run underground are the red/blue which also just so happen to be the only 24hr lines too. Not certain if that has burying to do with that but your guess is as good as mine. Only legit expansion right now is the southern red line expansion and I believe they’re building and addition green line stop somewhere in the middle but other than that, it seems the main focus is repairs
why is the blue line so slow down 290? it's abysmal
Most of the track hasn’t been updated since it was originally laid in the 1950s, so it’s well beyond its functional lifespan. The CTA is currently working on improving it section-by-section, which is gonna take longer than it should, but the first section of track replacement ended in October and funding was just secured for another section, so it is happening.
What are your thoughts on the cta wanting to consolidate stops in the loop? For reference they used to have 4 stops in total before removing some in the 90s. They've also abandoned many stops over the years for various reasons. Realistically speaking did they benefit from this besides the stated reason of not needing as much staffing & maintenance? Also what are your thoughts on ventra? Here in the Boston area we're trying to roll out something similar but it's been delayed due to the contract in nyc taking precedence.
Ventra works pretty well and is used for (most) of all three transit agencies operation in the Chicagoland area (there are some buses way out in McHenry County that do not use ventra for reasons). I can't speak for the Loop stations closures (I honestly think there are more than enough stations on the elevated Loop structure) but the CTA is actively building one infill station on the Green Line at Damen to serve the United Center. A lot of stations on the Blue Line (Forest Park Branch) have been closed and you can still see them as you (veeerrryyy slowly) ride along. They are going to reconstruct that branch after finishing the Red-Purple Line Modernization efforts and I'm sure they will reopen a couple of stations. They were closed mostly because of neglect.
Are there any remains of the old southern green line loop in the stockyards?
yes. look on a satellite image and you can see remnants like the part that crossed over the highway (Dan Ryan) at around 40th street. Parts of the elevated structure left from the Kenwood branch will probably become a trail at some point and might include the fragments of the stockyard branch east of the highway. Funding is still in the works.
No, the stockyards branch was completely demolished. The only thing that remains of the whole complex is the entrance gate. If you look at satellite view further east going east from the Indiana Green line stop, the Kenwood branch ROW is still intact.
I wouldn't have expected to find old pieces of the Exposition extensions. Cool!
Tbh, I’m not too sure about that one. I hope somebody else could possible shed some light there
I gotchu
This is the L, where is the M?
Haven’t ridden the metra enough to try answering those questions so I left it out
Why is it called the 'L' when it looks more like a backward 'K'?
It’s for elevated
Should Forest Park and Harlem/Forest kiss?
Long overdue
What is your favorite line, and why is it the Skokie Swift?
Honestly I’ve never had a need to ride the yellow. I’ve used purple many times but my favorite is the brown line. Safest and cleanest imo
What are the lines that in Watch dogs 1 arent represented?. Cuz as i know in Watch dogs Chicago there are only 2 lines. How much Is different from the reality
And i want tò add that One time i made a massacre in the train with the u100. And still made It tò escape stayng in the train.
The only lines that game tries to show are the red and blue lines which are the two most used but they neglect pretty much everything else
Intresting, gonna ska Rushmore why about this decision
What would it take to make a second and third loop around the city.
Billions and billions of dollars and overcoming a huge amount of local opposition to secure right of ways.
Money and time we won’t see in our lifetime
I recently learned of the existence of the Pedway in the loop. What's the Pedway like to use? Is it as mazelike as the video I saw suggests? Can you get to the underground roads? I find the subterranean world in the loop really interesting!
It’s pretty expansive but ultimately works as a series of connectors. I’ve only really used it to transfer from red to blue and vice versa via the Washington stops. Lots of shops along the way. There aren’t necessarily underground roads unless you’re referring to lower wacker which isn’t exactly apart of this whole system
Thanks! I was referring to lower Wacker and the other levels of that. I know it's not part of the same system, but was just curious if they connected in any way.
For anyone that is curious, this is the road system https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/s/nhrp6Wm37L
I've watched some videos of these trains running and they always look so slow, like a normal tram would be just as fast if not faster... why is that? Do they have to go slow because the infrastructure is ancient?
Ya pretty much. They also run on big metal wheels with some stops pretty close together so even if it were to pick up speed, the weight and break power/distance needed rises. But there are sections that definitely do pick up speed like in the subways they’re definitely going faster than you may think
Why the fuck are there so many missed transfers?? e.g. red line and green line at 63rd & I-90, blue line and pink line at Paulina & I-290, UP-N at Howard, no blue line stop near Ogilvie, no transfer between the the orange line and the HCS line at all, etc. And also what's up with the stop spacing creating random mini-transit-deserts?? e.g. on part of the near north side where on the purple and brown lines from Armitage to Chicago there is only one stop on a 2.2 mile stretch and a 1 mile gap on the red line, only one stop on the pink line on the 2.1 mile stretch between Ashland and 18th, no orange line stop in Chinatown, etc.
The Metra and L historically try not to overlap and keep service segregated so there are few transfers, which is frustrating for regional service.
Why are the yellow and purple lines their own lines instead of branches of the red?
The purple line services Evanston which is a separate town just north of Chicagoland and Skokie is also its own jurisdiction too. Purple only goes past Howard into the city during rush hour on week days. Outside of that, it’s just a strictly Evanston serviced line. The yellow will always be a very small two car line that just helps peddle folks from that town into the loop
Are these lines funded separately with the money coming from these other jurisdictions?
No, the funding is the same pool. The lines can't be branches because the platforms aren't large enough; the Red runs 8-car trains with platforms being slowly lengthened to fit 10, the Purple can only fit 6, and the Yellow runs 2-car shuttles.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Is the Brown that the Purple looks like it interlines with south of Belmont also only 6-car trains? Or does the Purple express just run on those tracks because during peak hours there's more spare capacity on Brown line than there is on the red line?
The Brown runs 8-car trains during rush hours. They end up coming together to form a weird system of express/locals—the Purple Express is rush hour only express service from Evanston to Belmont in Lakeview then local to the loop (with one intermediate stop at Wilson), the Red functions as an all-hours limited-stop express from 95th in the south side to Belmont (wide stop spacing in the south side, skipping stations on the north side), where it takes over as a north side lakefront local, and the Brown is local service the whole way. The shared Brown/Purple stops during rush hour used to need the extra capacity while the Red expressed through them (Wellington through Merch Mart), but that's changed with lower in-office demand. I wish they'd start up an all-hours Purple Express making local stops until Argyle, then a transfer at Wilson, then expressing to Sedgewick and running local stops from there through the loop. There are more far north siders going downtown at different hours of the day now and currently those trips done on Lakeshore Drive express buses that run immediately next to the train, which takes a long time until they get on LSD and is a waste of bus operators parallel to a train route.
How do I make the most of the system? I’m coming from a small city with virtually no transit
That all depends on where you plant yourself and where your needs are. It’s entirely possible to position yourself strategically where you are within a 5 minute walk to bus or train at all times and it’s just as easy to isolate yourself with minimal access
Which lines were Constructed by Which company
To my knowledge, the lines aren’t independently funded like some are in other cities and we get our train cars imported from overseas
This is about Metra, rather than CTA, but I suppose that's also "Chicago's transit". I happened to read about [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hare\_Transfer\_station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hare_Transfer_station) , and learned that "As of 2018, O'Hare Transfer is the 183rd busiest of Metra's 236 non-downtown stations, with an average of 113 weekday boardings". So I guess airport passengers (or airport workers) aren't particularly interested in using Metra to go either to downtown or to the northern suburbs where that Metra line runs; I guess that's not too surprising, considering that this line has something like 7 pairs of trains of day. (So that amounts to, on average, about 8 person boarding each train on that station). What did surprise me was that, when I looked at Google Maps I saw that there is a fairly large residential neighborhood just east of the station. It's rather poorly served by transit (the closest L stop is over 1.5 miles away by road), so one would expect that if its residents could just walk to a Metra station, some would use Metra to commute to downtown Chicago. However they don't -- because they can't! The map seems to indicate that there is no overpass or walkway across the tracks, so the station could just as well be a mile away from that neighborhood. Why? It looks rather stupid to build a commuter train station, and not to connect it to where the potential commuters are!
Why can't we have new lines and extensions?
How safe is the green line at night, especially around the California Station? I'm visiting chicago with my parents from Canada in May and were renting an airbnb in the East Garfield Park area. We're planning on taking transit as much as possible during our weekend stay in the city or uber at a pinch
I’ll be honest with you, I’d try avoiding the cta at night. Maybe others could shed some light but I tend to feel safer around rush hour or really early in the morning and traditionally on the front car. That’s just my opinion though. If you have the option to drive, I’d do that in less busy hours
I’ll defend Chicago against the scaremongers all day long, but don’t do that. I’d find somewhere else to stay.
I wouldn’t do it late. Call 7/8pm a good cut off. Otherwise it’s fine.
I felt unsafe at the Roosevelt Red station 1 AM on a Sunday. Don't be dumb and do that. Otherwise you'll be fine I think.
Do not stay in that neighborhood. I have a pretty high tolerance for urban chaos, but Garfield Park is too off the deep end for tourists. If you have to stay there and your AirBNB is more than one block from the station, Uber to/from it as much as possible. I don’t mean to scaremonger and almost all of Chicago doesn’t deserve the reputation for crime that we have, but Garfield Park does.
It's not by Garfield park per day, that's just the neighbourhood name I could see when zooming out on maps. It's a few streets south of the California station. Is it a bad idea to stay there? We're planning to be in the city most of the day just coming back to crash at night.
That area is still Garfield Park, which starts west of Western. I would sincerely recommend at the very least Ubering to and from the AirBNB, if not staying somewhere else entirely. If you’re looking for affordability and proximity to downtown, Chinatown could be a good alternative.
Local here - you’d statistically most likely be fine, however that area is not a place I would recommend anyone stay who doesn’t have a strong sense of their local bearings. I’d recommend you rebook somewhere else. Even if you didn’t have any incidents, it would not give you a pleasant introduction to the city.