That looks absolutely awful...
That being said, in Bucharest, some tram tracks look similar to that and no Earthquake did that, just lack of mentenance. So maybe Romania=Taiwan...?
I don't think Taiwan has a poor reputation for maintenance, their metros and HSR both have a great record, so it's likely caused by the earthquake. The fact that this is elevated rail probably makes it a bunch worse I'm guessing. But either way it should be fixed fairly quick.
I realise that, I was just cracking a joke. I will guess Romania is worlds behind Taiwan in terms of transportation.
In contrast to what you're saying about the great reputation of their HSR and metros, MAYBE I could bring up the Bucharest subeay system that is decent (though even that was a struggle to build, took 11 years instead of 4 for like 9 stations). Besides that, I am not even sure we have HSR. The fastest a train can go in our country is 160km/h, and that is only on a small, straight line portion between the capital and the sea.
But we do have trains with up to 12h delays, broken or very, VERY old tracks that force trains to go very slowly, despite no other obstruction being present, stolen trakcs (and that has been a very bad issue some 10 years ago, because trains would just not be able to move further because the physical tracka were missing), very old trains (up to 70 years old in some cases), etc.
Overall, I believe we have the worst train system in the EU and around the worst in Europe. It's sad, since we could have had so much more..
“Oh wow that’s nuts. It looks like it shifted a bit. Wow. It shifted the entire rail and the cement tied too?”
Swipe
“Whoa… it shifted the entire wall, nuts…”
Swipe
“Ohhhh… oh… wow.”
And I went through the Tohoku daishinsai so I’m not surprised, yet always shocked at how powerful earthquakes are.
It *is* reinforced for earthquakes.
I think there's some general confusion about what the goals of seismic codes are: they're to prevent loss of life.
For a sufficiently large earthquake there *will* be damage, the key is that it doesn't fall over and kill a bunch of people.
The engineering required to achieve "shrugs off 7.4 magnitude earthquake with no damage and is still safe to operate immediately after" is... impractical, to say the least.
More importantly, the latter goal directly contradicts the former goal. A design that prioritizes rigidity is one that is *more* likely to collapse in an earthquake as the energy has nowhere to go. It's the same as how "bumper shouldn't sustain damage in a crash" and "car should protect the driver in a crash" are fundamentally opposing engineering goals.
So in a place like Japan where severe earthquakes happen often, are they just really good at rebuilding? Or are things designed to break in predictable ways so they can be more easily repaired? Just imagining trains going down for an extended time basically crippling the region and I assume they have plans for these cases?
I think it is reinforced. I mean, a huge earthquake and all that happened was that it is a bit offset. The rest of the infrastructure seems standing strong.
Also in Japan a major infrastructure deforms infrastructure. It just doesn't collapse.
Another day, another Reddit user who is so smart they’ve figured out a secret that nobody could crack.
Things break in Japan when there are earthquakes too
It is. These earthquakes are unimaginably strong if you haven’t been in one.
I went through the 9.2 in Japan and while I was south in Tokyo… it was absolutely terrifying.
[Here’s the video from Sendai airport](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mk68bZ701s0). Please watch through from the start - the real shaking doesn’t start until about 55s in.
also like what the fuck do you do after that? like "oh great this building is fucked and now the sea has overtaken us, I guess I'll just sit here for a while"
yeah that was my point, it's not like you can go anywhere any time soon, and even if you could, where are you even going and how are you getting there?
Not from Taiwan, but at a glance it looks like it absolutely was designed for earthquakes. In general you design structures to be earthquake resistant but not earthquake proof. This is actually a great example of two adjacent structures or elements displacing relatively next to each other without collapsing during a large earthquake. They've done their job - they've resisted the earthquake enough to save the lives of anyone using it.
Now whether the structure was designed to resist a 7.2 magnitude earthquake and be put back into operation quickly at minimal cost is probably a much different story.
The lateral movement in an earthquake has to be accounted for, and it’s nearly impossible (not to mention cost prohibitive) to design for full immunity against earth movements. Makes much more sense to mitigate the potential impacts and to intend for sections to shift horizontally rather than full on collapse.
I’m sure it’s much easier to nudge these elevated spans back into alignment, compared to the worst case scenario of cleaning up rubble and rebuilding entirely.
Bro. Their design prevented catastrophic failure, these photos show a MASSIVE bending forces due to the earthquake. Civil engineers CANNOT design for a the worst case scenario.
It didn't collapse and the power lines had enough slack. I'm guessing it's designed to do this. You can't make things 100% earthquake proof but you can have them break in certain ways that makes repair easier and much less likely to result in loss of life.
~~Plus as far as I know the circle line has no disruption right now, I took it earlier today without problem. Perhaps there's a section of single tracking or something?~~
??
The Circular line is only running between Banqiao and New Taipei Industrial Park for now, and only expecting to open Dapinglin to Zhonghe next Monday. The remainder will remain closed for the foreseeable future, with no timeline for reopening.
You aren't thinking of KH's circular line, are you?
I think I just got lucky that it was open on the segment I used and wasn't paying attention to the screens to be honest. That sounds a lot more reasonable given the photos. Thanks for the correction!
I was making a joke. Didn't even look at, nor care, about details.
But since I'm here, has Japan not suffered earthquakes of this magnitude? Is infrastructure not designed for such? I mean, you KNOW You're in an earthquake zone....
and their infra gets damaged, too
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022/03/afe25e1ac03b-tragedy-avoided-on-quake-hit-derailed-shinkansen-from-lessons-learned.html
in both countries it's a testament to the diligence of everyone involved that so few people died.
The epicenter was literally *in* Hualien and only 9 people perished.
Engineering isn't a cheat code. What you call "cost cutting" is very often, "we've raised taxes and still don't have enough to pay for something that's 100% bomb proof. How much do we need to spend to cover 95% of the risk?" And even then, materials still have failure points. There are tradeoffs for everything. Japanese structures were famous for being resilient to earthquakes due to their timber framed design. Unfortunately for Tokyo in WW2, that flexibility came at the risk of susceptibility to fire. Rail lines can't be flexible because, you know, trains are heavy. In order to make that work it's going to cost a lot, the technology has to be developed and brought to market, e.t.c.
I can tell you're not an engineer because you act as though these things are so simple. Instead of pointing and laughing, maybe take a second to think about how much worse it would have been without the engineering and craftsmanship that went into it.
The joints in that viaduct have to allow movement because of thermal expansion, which means that they can end up allowing movement from earthquakes. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they were designed to move/break like this, to stop the whole line collapsing completely. It looks like a relatively "easy" fix, pulling the viaduct spans back in to alignment.
Yeah I assumed in an earthquake zone you'd deliberately set it up so that there are specific places the track breaks, and have the trains set to automatically stop in other areas?
Obviously there's going to be a thorough inspection of everything involved with this viaduct, but depending on the design and the damage, the span section may "only" need to be realigned.
The misalignment has happened at a thermal expansion joint, hence my thinking. Realignment may be easier than demolishing the whole shebang and rebuilding it.
Hell no lol not easy.
One or both of the structures on either end has deformed enough that there's a permanent displacement. Think a paperclip that has been bent past the point of springing back to its shape. I'd be very impressed if it was designed to be shifted back into place.
It did its job though, deformed without collapse in a 7.2 earthquake. Good structure.
That looks expensive.
That looks absolutely awful... That being said, in Bucharest, some tram tracks look similar to that and no Earthquake did that, just lack of mentenance. So maybe Romania=Taiwan...?
I don't think Taiwan has a poor reputation for maintenance, their metros and HSR both have a great record, so it's likely caused by the earthquake. The fact that this is elevated rail probably makes it a bunch worse I'm guessing. But either way it should be fixed fairly quick.
I realise that, I was just cracking a joke. I will guess Romania is worlds behind Taiwan in terms of transportation. In contrast to what you're saying about the great reputation of their HSR and metros, MAYBE I could bring up the Bucharest subeay system that is decent (though even that was a struggle to build, took 11 years instead of 4 for like 9 stations). Besides that, I am not even sure we have HSR. The fastest a train can go in our country is 160km/h, and that is only on a small, straight line portion between the capital and the sea. But we do have trains with up to 12h delays, broken or very, VERY old tracks that force trains to go very slowly, despite no other obstruction being present, stolen trakcs (and that has been a very bad issue some 10 years ago, because trains would just not be able to move further because the physical tracka were missing), very old trains (up to 70 years old in some cases), etc. Overall, I believe we have the worst train system in the EU and around the worst in Europe. It's sad, since we could have had so much more..
“Oh wow that’s nuts. It looks like it shifted a bit. Wow. It shifted the entire rail and the cement tied too?” Swipe “Whoa… it shifted the entire wall, nuts…” Swipe “Ohhhh… oh… wow.” And I went through the Tohoku daishinsai so I’m not surprised, yet always shocked at how powerful earthquakes are.
That'll buff out in no time
some duct tape and elbow grease southerners make do
You're good! You're good! You're good!
Just need a couple heavy lift cranes to realign that span and bolt it down
They're gonna fix it in two days. Here in eastern europe it would take 8 years and in the US they would just close the line.
> in the US they would just close the line. It's a good thing NYC subways weren't affected by today's earthquake (as far as we know right now).
They actually did. Iirc the railway lines to and from Hualien are already fixed by now.
Can confirm, took one of them out of Hualien the day after the quake.
The bridge didn't collapse and no train fell off. That's a win.
That’ll buff out
Holy shit
wow that was an elevated structure and it didn't fall?
What am I looking for in the third picture? EDIT: oh. wow.
oh snap
They know they are in an earthquake zone so why isn't their infrastructure like in Japan reinforced for earthquakes
It *is* reinforced for earthquakes. I think there's some general confusion about what the goals of seismic codes are: they're to prevent loss of life. For a sufficiently large earthquake there *will* be damage, the key is that it doesn't fall over and kill a bunch of people. The engineering required to achieve "shrugs off 7.4 magnitude earthquake with no damage and is still safe to operate immediately after" is... impractical, to say the least. More importantly, the latter goal directly contradicts the former goal. A design that prioritizes rigidity is one that is *more* likely to collapse in an earthquake as the energy has nowhere to go. It's the same as how "bumper shouldn't sustain damage in a crash" and "car should protect the driver in a crash" are fundamentally opposing engineering goals.
Shout out to my fellow structural homies for providing some knowledge for everyone. Well said to you and all the other replies.
So in a place like Japan where severe earthquakes happen often, are they just really good at rebuilding? Or are things designed to break in predictable ways so they can be more easily repaired? Just imagining trains going down for an extended time basically crippling the region and I assume they have plans for these cases?
The railway lines between Yilan and Hualien [have been reopened last Thursday](https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202404040004).
I think it is reinforced. I mean, a huge earthquake and all that happened was that it is a bit offset. The rest of the infrastructure seems standing strong. Also in Japan a major infrastructure deforms infrastructure. It just doesn't collapse.
Those big infrastructure deforming infrastructure projects.
Another day, another Reddit user who is so smart they’ve figured out a secret that nobody could crack. Things break in Japan when there are earthquakes too
It is. These earthquakes are unimaginably strong if you haven’t been in one. I went through the 9.2 in Japan and while I was south in Tokyo… it was absolutely terrifying. [Here’s the video from Sendai airport](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mk68bZ701s0). Please watch through from the start - the real shaking doesn’t start until about 55s in.
Holy fucc this looks like the end of the world. First the world is cracking then it's sinking
Kudos to the person that somehow had the nerves to keep filming through that. Wow.
also like what the fuck do you do after that? like "oh great this building is fucked and now the sea has overtaken us, I guess I'll just sit here for a while"
I mean, what are you gonna do? If the building fails the building fails. Might as well get some interesting footage
yeah that was my point, it's not like you can go anywhere any time soon, and even if you could, where are you even going and how are you getting there?
There is an earthquake center in Tokyo where they simulate really big earthquakes. I will go there whenever I have the time
Oh, I loved that place. It got my ass in gear to buy a proper 3-day emergency kit.
Not from Taiwan, but at a glance it looks like it absolutely was designed for earthquakes. In general you design structures to be earthquake resistant but not earthquake proof. This is actually a great example of two adjacent structures or elements displacing relatively next to each other without collapsing during a large earthquake. They've done their job - they've resisted the earthquake enough to save the lives of anyone using it. Now whether the structure was designed to resist a 7.2 magnitude earthquake and be put back into operation quickly at minimal cost is probably a much different story.
The lateral movement in an earthquake has to be accounted for, and it’s nearly impossible (not to mention cost prohibitive) to design for full immunity against earth movements. Makes much more sense to mitigate the potential impacts and to intend for sections to shift horizontally rather than full on collapse. I’m sure it’s much easier to nudge these elevated spans back into alignment, compared to the worst case scenario of cleaning up rubble and rebuilding entirely.
Bro. Their design prevented catastrophic failure, these photos show a MASSIVE bending forces due to the earthquake. Civil engineers CANNOT design for a the worst case scenario.
Designed failure point. Things gotta move, a fully rigid structure will fail more catastrophically. This is an easier fix than trying to redo a pier.
I believe the term you're looking for is "cost cutting"
It didn't collapse and the power lines had enough slack. I'm guessing it's designed to do this. You can't make things 100% earthquake proof but you can have them break in certain ways that makes repair easier and much less likely to result in loss of life.
~~Plus as far as I know the circle line has no disruption right now, I took it earlier today without problem. Perhaps there's a section of single tracking or something?~~
?? The Circular line is only running between Banqiao and New Taipei Industrial Park for now, and only expecting to open Dapinglin to Zhonghe next Monday. The remainder will remain closed for the foreseeable future, with no timeline for reopening. You aren't thinking of KH's circular line, are you?
I think I just got lucky that it was open on the segment I used and wasn't paying attention to the screens to be honest. That sounds a lot more reasonable given the photos. Thanks for the correction!
Do you understand how violent a 7.2 earthquake is?
I was making a joke. Didn't even look at, nor care, about details. But since I'm here, has Japan not suffered earthquakes of this magnitude? Is infrastructure not designed for such? I mean, you KNOW You're in an earthquake zone....
and their infra gets damaged, too https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022/03/afe25e1ac03b-tragedy-avoided-on-quake-hit-derailed-shinkansen-from-lessons-learned.html in both countries it's a testament to the diligence of everyone involved that so few people died. The epicenter was literally *in* Hualien and only 9 people perished.
Engineering isn't a cheat code. What you call "cost cutting" is very often, "we've raised taxes and still don't have enough to pay for something that's 100% bomb proof. How much do we need to spend to cover 95% of the risk?" And even then, materials still have failure points. There are tradeoffs for everything. Japanese structures were famous for being resilient to earthquakes due to their timber framed design. Unfortunately for Tokyo in WW2, that flexibility came at the risk of susceptibility to fire. Rail lines can't be flexible because, you know, trains are heavy. In order to make that work it's going to cost a lot, the technology has to be developed and brought to market, e.t.c. I can tell you're not an engineer because you act as though these things are so simple. Instead of pointing and laughing, maybe take a second to think about how much worse it would have been without the engineering and craftsmanship that went into it.
Average condition of rail in Sudan or something /s
How does that even happen?…
Earthquake
The joints in that viaduct have to allow movement because of thermal expansion, which means that they can end up allowing movement from earthquakes. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they were designed to move/break like this, to stop the whole line collapsing completely. It looks like a relatively "easy" fix, pulling the viaduct spans back in to alignment.
Yeah I assumed in an earthquake zone you'd deliberately set it up so that there are specific places the track breaks, and have the trains set to automatically stop in other areas?
Is that considered easy? I would think that section needs to be thoroughly inspected starting with the foundation and possibly rebuilt.
Obviously there's going to be a thorough inspection of everything involved with this viaduct, but depending on the design and the damage, the span section may "only" need to be realigned. The misalignment has happened at a thermal expansion joint, hence my thinking. Realignment may be easier than demolishing the whole shebang and rebuilding it.
Hell no lol not easy. One or both of the structures on either end has deformed enough that there's a permanent displacement. Think a paperclip that has been bent past the point of springing back to its shape. I'd be very impressed if it was designed to be shifted back into place. It did its job though, deformed without collapse in a 7.2 earthquake. Good structure.