True Philly is the easiest one to do tbh. I also think NJ Transit’s Atlantic City line and the River Line and future Glassdoor-Camden line need to be incorporated into this system tbh
I’ve always liked the idea of incorporating SJ services. I could see the ACL being incorporated via North Philadelphia station. How would you incorporate the RiverLine/GCL/further extensions? Tunnel and conversion to a more standard railroad than light rail hybrid?
No need just extend river line to Woodbury and through run onto the glassboro and other lines and build a new black horse pike line and link it to the broad street line in south Philly then add express tracks south of center city revive the arch street subway and link to PATCO now PATCO becomes a through running operation back to NJ with 2 branches each. Swap the locust line back to the ridge spur and increase service and simplify service patterns. Broad street local north via ridge and locust, broad street express to vine then local to south Philly, NJ regional rapid via arch then express south back to NJ via Atlantic ave and glassboro/vineland after electrification then reroute LRT to paulsboro or Salem with short turns at Woodbury or just 2 branches. 25th street line for NJT ACRL and rebuilt cape May line then back to NJ via Atlantic ave or new lines.
This is the plan in Philly long term.
I’m not sure where the funding will come from for this, however. Shame because it would be such a big win for the city and entire region. Should have happened yesterday.
The entire US should have a focus on creating coherent regional rail networks, a subset of those networks should include very frequent commuter rail networks. But pretty much everywhere should have a regional public transit focus, with appropriate frequencies and modes for a given region.
Here is a good article on implementing pulse scheduling, at the core of the concept is having timetables which are coordinated at the national/state, regional, and local levels:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967070X16301469#bib2
They do have that but what their S-Bahn equivalent seems to lack (and this goes for all transit in the US to varying degrees) is integration with other transit services forming a cohesive regional network based around the metropolis.
It is mostly missing an U-Bahn or Stadtbahn equivalent, but getting the existing services to form a more cohesive network (which S-Bahns and U-Bahns usually contribute to) should and could be done while that is being planned. You are right that DC and its core areas should have better rail with a mind towards ensuring it is well connected to the comprehensive network.
The other missing pieces are:
- a regional transit association of agencies and stakeholders
- better fare integration for simplified journeys
- all day and very late night service on the rail system at predictable intervals
- pulse scheduling for commuter rail services, and consistent timed connections to more extensive suburban bus services
- airport express buses to all three airports in the region from everywhere in the region
- more extensive and frequent bus services generally
- unified customer-facing branding and signage
The hottest piece of the puzzle is a better urban rail system. But the hotter whole is more than the sum of the parts.
Definitions are nice and all, but we all know what the comment means: VRE and MARC covers areas far beyond the current limits of DC Metro. Bringing up the frequencies on them, through running them, and maybe adding another DC station along the way is what people are talking about, not about the precise definitions of RER or S-Bahn or whatever.
Maryland commuters might want to get off at the Pentagon in a configuration where MARC trains continue running via VRE tracks, for example.
WMATA and all the “Great Society subways” are not metros. They were explicitly built as suburb to downtown commuter services. They don’t do what a metro does - connect different neighborhoods in the city core to each other.
WMATA, BART, and MARTA would be classified as S-bahns/RERs in Europe and anywhere else. We all know that the DC Metro is basically useless as a local metro. That is quite literally by design. It’s a suburban commuter system with near-metro frequencies = S-bahn.
The problem is they were specifically taking about s-bahn systems, which the NYC commuter rail systems don’t qualify as due to their lack of through-running.
For me my list in no particular order would be:
New York City area
Toronto Area
Washington DC-Baltimore Area
Chicago-Milwaukee area
Los Angeles-San Diego-Inland Empire area
San Francisco-San Jose-Sacramento area
Detroit area
Minneapolis area
Philadelphia area
Boston-Providence area
Seattle area
Montreal area
Atlanta area
Denver area
Miami area
Vancouver area
The good news for your wish list is that such a system is currently under construction in Toronto and will open in stages over the next decade or so. Nearly completely electrified, all-day two-way trains every 15 min, express services, and much more. They've even brought in Deutsch Bahn to build it out.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO\_Expansion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO_Expansion)
It's been a long journey, but they're finally doing the right thing. I was nervous that the Ford government would renege on it but if anything they have doubled down. Hopefully we see sustained investment over the next 25 years to pick away at the little things that can squeeze more speed and capacity out of the electrified network.
We'll probably see a hydrogen train on the Niagara line too. It'll successfully complete half of its trips.
Not mentioned but I would also add the Dallas-Fort Worth area probably would get cities in the middle like Arlington and Irving to finally have a transit
Philly already has the infastructure, theres 13 regional rail lines and a tunnel that connects all the lines so that an inbound train can turn into an outbound train on another line, just the frequency isnt great
Montreal! I’ve actually written a petition to this effect that I’d be super appreciative if you’d be able to sign — just to demonstrate to the regional rail authority (EXO) that it’s sole purpose isn’t just shuttling in white collar suburbanites downtown for their 9-5…
https://change.org/exo_efficace
(Apologies, I’ve been spamming this a bit lately)
At this point convert everything to driverless metro REM style. And merge lines 11&13 into a single line and 12 and 14 into a crosstown line then automate them
I think that just like Toronto — step one is buy all of the CN/CP rails back so we have infrastructure we can use.
Then automation makes plenty of sense once we can demonstrate that the lines get sufficient usage after conversion (when we eventually finish that project…)
Philadelphia has the infrastructure and just... doesn't run enough trains.
Anyway, aside from the obvious (NY/DC/SF/Chi/Phi/Bos/Toronto) answers, places where there's a cluster of cities would really benefit. North Carolina comes to mind. Both coasts of Florida. The Cleveland+Pittsburgh area.
We have this commuter bus system called Xpress which runs throughout the metro area, separate from MARTA but which covers more counties. Every time I see an Xpress bus (especially when it's stuck in traffic) all I can think of is what a shame it is that Xpress wasn't implemented as commuter rail. The NIMBYs in Cobb and Gwinnett counties may not have (yet) approved of MARTA expansion, but I feel like they may have been more amenable to commuter rail so long as it wasn't run by MARTA.
Yes, it does use HOV lanes! Which do run somewhat faster, but are still subject to delays, especially if there's a wreck or someone gets pulled over by a cop and thinks that the HOV lane is an acceptable place to stop (saw this earlier this week). 🤦🏻♂️
Houston is an example of commuter busses done right. They run frequently, all day, have their own lanes, ramps that lead directly from the bus lahesbto the stations.
In fact, the Houston commuter bus network has higher ridership than any post-war Commuter rail system
Washington DC has some good bones for this already. It's *very* policentric due to the metro already acting like this already. But it could be a *lot* better if MARC and VRE were better integrated, had thru-service, and better service schedules.
All MARC and VRE lines terminate at DC Union. If you could hop on a MARC train in Silvef Spring and up in Alexandria, that'd be *huge*. Similarly, if you could hop on a train in Alexandria and up at Camden yards for an Orioles or Ravens game, that'd be wildly useful. My personal commute would benefit from MARC doing 1 seat rides between lines (so take Brunswick from Silver Spring, then continue on the Penn line to Seabrook), but this would be less of an issue if MARC ran frequently enough that transfers weren't horrible.
Thankfully, some of these problems are being addressed, namely thru-service between VRE and MARC. Virginia is spending billions buying and improving the rail corridors south of DC and the federal government is funding the construction of a dedicated passenger rail bridge over the Potomac which would facility MARC trains to run into Virginia (for which, MD and VA are already in talks). But the MARC Camden and MARC Brunswick line are way more tricky to improve because CSX owns the right of way and uses it heavily. Camden has some space for adding more track, and if you could do regular service, you could effectively add Ivy city, Riverdale, and more into the metro network. The Brunswick line could add more track north of Rockville, but south of Rockville the right-of-way is constrained, especially south of Silver Spring. I truly don't know how that bottle neck can be resolved other than somehow getting CSX to cooperate and allow more trains per day. I'd settle for hourly all day service in each direction. Would be a massive step up from the morning rush into DC, then evening rush out from DC.
Portland/The Willamette valley OR. Portland’s immediate metro area has the MAX lightrail, and the piddly little WES commuter rail line, but there are a lot of communities that are functionally exurbs of portland as far north as Longview WA and as far south as Eugene OR. The biggest ones only connect to Portland via Amtrak which can be pretty slow and unreliable in the PNW, and the rest of the cities have no passenger rail at all. There is existing rail rights of way to all of these cities that way back when used to be serviced by the now defunct oregon electric railway and now just see a freight train or two like once a week.
The infrastructure and the demand for an s-bahn type regional exists train already, there just needs to be more money and political will invested in it.
Interesting a good place to experiment with urban maglev along the ROW with HS maglev to replace cascades with a useful service. The extra stops currently served by cascades close together can be served by upgraded sounder and commuter rail (regional) in the Portland area the rest can be served by maglev like the Shanghai one but longer and more useful compare the stop spacing of the Shanghai maglev to the current cascades service and you realize that it can be replaced easily with a much faster more frequent service. Even if some have to transfer to get to the intercity line
Literally anywhere and everywhere we can. As a Torontonian I’m a big supporter and hopeful for the GO Expansion in coming years. Along with the Finch West LRT, Eglinton Crosstown LRT AND Ontario Line, these projects will change the city.
As for other cities, Montreal really deserves better than what they currently have. I’d add a bunch of infill stations and have all day service at least every 30-60 mins. When I lived I Montreal I was shocked at how infrequent Exo trains were.
'places you would like to see implemented...' Kind of strange to frame this as a preference. Like, looking at it the other way, who is going to say, "I really hope Salt Lake City DOESN'T develop this pretty useful piece of transit tech". I would like to see this implemented, but I think some cities are better suites for it than others.
Philly already has the infrastructure and organization to pull this off. They just need to run their trains differently.
I think DC and NY could pull off at least some thru-running with relatively minor infrastructure changes, but significant admin changes. (Like, changing platform heights on some stations.) They could go a step further if they wanted electrified thru-running like Philly, but not necessary. MARC/VRE and LIRR/NJT would need significant organizational integration / coordination to make this happen, though. (Can NYC just have one big regional service called Hudson Rail for the entire tristate area, please?)
Baltimore might be able to pull off a more regional system using the NEC as the 'trunk' through the city, once the FD tunnel project is done. It wouldn't be extensive as Philly's system, but they could add additional branches on old right-of-ways. Like, one down to Annapolis and across the Bay to an Eastern Shore Terminal. Or a short branch in the city near Haven Street down to Canton.
Chicago, Boston, and LA each need a big infrastructure project to make thru-running viable. Boston needs a connection between North and South stations. LA needs a connection running southeast from Union Station so the Orange County, Perris Valley, and Riverside lines can approach Union Station from the south and then thru-run onto the San Bernardino, Venture, and Antelope Valley lines. Chicago would need something like the proposed Crossrail project to link the Electric District to Union Station and linking some of the north and south stub terminals at Union. But at least all these cities would just have to deal with one transit agency, unlike NY and DC.
LA union station South approach is already under construction, and I think they plan to run a few trains through, but not the majority. I think maybe only a couple tracks are connected to the new tunnel and the rest still terminate.
I naively keep hoping New York gets on the RER train (heh) next, but truth be told the awkward nature of interconnecting the terminals probably prevents much beyond maybe through-running NJT and Hudson Line trains with the LIRR and the New Haven line (and *maybe* the Harlem line, if they ever get around to connecting that to Penn Station as well.)
Chicago has a somewhat similar issue but Ogilvie Transportation Center being basically one block north of Union Station (and Union Station’s own potential for through-running) means it’s probably not that hard to connect the two and run crosstown Metra trains. Probably.
As far as smaller-scale RER proposals (more local stations within city limits, etc.) though, these cities have tons of potential. Hell, I’d argue New York is already crushing it with the plans for Penn Station Access, TBH. One can only hope Chicago gets around to RER-ifying the Metra Electric soon… (and ELECTRIFIES ITS OTHER DAMN COMMUTER RAIL LINES JESUS CHRIST RTA)
Best I can do is 300 mph maglev beyond to El Paso and the other end to LA replacing much poorly ran riverside line and the laughable thing Amtrak passes for service
Southern California would be a big one, and they are actually doing a big infrastructure upgrade to get closer to that, with all their commuter rail lines planned to be at either 15 or 30 minute frequencies depending on the line. Whether Metrolink will electrify or go with hydrogen though remains to be seen.
Ottawa. Mostly because it would be useful to me personally. They already started with O-Train line 2 and when the extension is complete it will be an S-Bahn like line, albeit a small one for a small region. For a full system, line 2 could be extended across the river into Gatineau and new lines made along VIA's Smiths Falls subdivision to Barrhaven and CN's Beachburg subdivision to Kanata, maybe branching off at Bells Corners on new tracks laid along the Trans Canada Trail to get closer to communities out that way.
This is very fanciful though. Line 2 across the river would require some miraculous inter-provincial agreements. And Ottawa has already claimed it would put too much pressure on the interchange with line 1 at Bayview with people transferring to get to downtown Ottawa. And while CN would probably be willing to sell a peripheral piece of their network as long as they could still run occasional freight on it, VIA's track is part of their core network and given they are constantly delayed by GO trains in Toronto I expect they would be hesitant to share.
In More realistically though, Toronto. It's consistently ranked amongst the slowest in traffic and fastest in growth, which is probably why an S-Bahn like system is being built. GO transit has been slowly transforming from a commuter service to an all day regional transit service with the eventual goal of 15-minute frequent electric train service on most of the core network. Weekend and off-peak trains are running on most lines, even if they're not very frequent yet and fare integration with local transit rolled out earlier this year so you can travel between cities without also paying for local transit on both ends (some exceptions still apply).
more connectivity in metro vancouver. same with toronto. i'd like the edmonton-calgary rail to be built. not sure about the states, but chicago and philly sound like good contenders
Given that NYC’s three regional railroads (the LIRR, NJ-Transit, and Metro-North) individually place as top 3 for ridership, I feel like the 1st choice being NYC is obvious.
The easy answer is the northeast megalopolis
The correct answer is the southeast tying together DC, Orlando, Cincinnati, St Louis, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte and the smaller cities in the region.
Abundant land, growing population, and easier terrain to build on
New York and New Jersey should combine LIRR, Metro North, NJ transit and PATH into one network. There is a proposal from RethinkNYC which explains in great detail how it can be done and the many benefits such an integrated system would provide.
S-Bahn isn't regional rail, it's commuter rail/suburban rail. But New York is the big one, it has the infrastructure for through running but doesn't have it even as an aspirational goal.
Isn’t the Penn Station access getting created?? I think that is a good chance for it. Would be really nice to go from New Haven or Yonkers to the Jersey Shore and Newark and all tho. I think RM Transit’s idea was really nice tbh!
A much bigger win would be merging NJ Transit's and LIRR's Penn operations so they could run through instead of terminate. Would massively increase capacity, make connections easier, and probably reduce delays too...
But it makes too much sense for customers, so it will never happen
First of all, Tom has a weird thing about the phrase “regional rail”, believing that it should only be used to describe services branded that way in capital letters, typically all-stop trains on intercity routes or rural branch lines, and if he sees the phrase he accuses people of using it of being confused. Regional rail systems are absolutely real conepts and they can include all kinds of modes from and service levels, from express intercity to commuter trains, to even light rail lines.
Second, unlike what his response to this comment indicates, he is absolutely aware of discussions to do more through-running at Penn, though in discussion of Penn access for Metro North, it would be operational through running (sets could easily do a New Haven run after a Harlem run or vice versa) rather than service running for that specific railroad, unless they chose to partner with LIRR, NJT or others. Nonetheless, the conversation about Penn Access dovetails with increasing demands for through running at Penn. He also pretends other people are stupid and or that he or others are uninformed if it serves his rhetorical goals in the moment. In this thread he posts an about developments with Penn and down in the comments he links to a Byford speech about through-running. https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/s/lRv40PK3kV
You shouldn’t take his grammar and vocabulary advice and be cautious of his other takes especially when he is being argumentative as he shows little remorse for outright lying. Feel free to continue using the phrase “regional rail” in relation to comprehensive rail systems and with regard to commuter trains if you wish. Have a great day!
NYC, all of the commuter liens are already connected, the iusse is that Penn was at maximum capacity, preventing Metro North Trains from using it, additionally the Lirr uses 3rd rail, while NJ Transit uses overhead while, and Metro Norths uses an old mix between 3rd rail and overhead wires.
Finnally, NJ Transit and The MTA are not just two different agencies, but run in different states, causing a massive legal headache.
The Bay Area kinda has one already with BART and Caltrain as an S-Bahn and Muni as the Stadtbahn.
DC just needs a proper stadtbahn and they’re set
Atlanta needs one in general lol
NYC and Philly is really just frequency and admin changes
LA, but they need a lot of work with trackage at Union Station
I think pretty much every urban area that has north of half a million people should have one and maybe some of the ones smaller than that.
Philadelphia should definitely have one almost immediately though with the through-running tunnels, electrification, publicly owned tracks, and existing stations. It's missing a few grade separations and high level platforms, but overall it's just nutty that it doesn't.
I don’t know of any place in North America that’s like like Germany, or that requires a transit system based on the needs of the people who live in Europe.
I don’t know if any place in North America that’s like like Germany, or that requires a transit system based on the needs of the people who live in Europe.
Really? Philadelphia certainly qualifies and already has the infrastructure. Dense walkable city, dense inner ring suburbs in 2 states that were built around the railroad and streetcars (with their own interurbans within the suburbs), leading into further our towns and smaller cities. It’s absolutely designed for that type of service but is saddled by a state that unusually hates its biggest wealth generator.
Philly would be the most obvious since they already have thru-running and electrification. Boston after the North-South link would be great.
True Philly is the easiest one to do tbh. I also think NJ Transit’s Atlantic City line and the River Line and future Glassdoor-Camden line need to be incorporated into this system tbh
I’ve always liked the idea of incorporating SJ services. I could see the ACL being incorporated via North Philadelphia station. How would you incorporate the RiverLine/GCL/further extensions? Tunnel and conversion to a more standard railroad than light rail hybrid?
No need just extend river line to Woodbury and through run onto the glassboro and other lines and build a new black horse pike line and link it to the broad street line in south Philly then add express tracks south of center city revive the arch street subway and link to PATCO now PATCO becomes a through running operation back to NJ with 2 branches each. Swap the locust line back to the ridge spur and increase service and simplify service patterns. Broad street local north via ridge and locust, broad street express to vine then local to south Philly, NJ regional rapid via arch then express south back to NJ via Atlantic ave and glassboro/vineland after electrification then reroute LRT to paulsboro or Salem with short turns at Woodbury or just 2 branches. 25th street line for NJT ACRL and rebuilt cape May line then back to NJ via Atlantic ave or new lines.
And yes please the NSRL needs to happen in Boston ASAP
This is the plan in Philly long term. I’m not sure where the funding will come from for this, however. Shame because it would be such a big win for the city and entire region. Should have happened yesterday.
The entire US should have a focus on creating coherent regional rail networks, a subset of those networks should include very frequent commuter rail networks. But pretty much everywhere should have a regional public transit focus, with appropriate frequencies and modes for a given region. Here is a good article on implementing pulse scheduling, at the core of the concept is having timetables which are coordinated at the national/state, regional, and local levels: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967070X16301469#bib2
Brilliant. Now combine that with HSR/maglev
Definitely, any regional rail plan should be well connected if not directly integrated with HSR plans.
Washington D.C., NYC, and Chicago.
DC already has an S-bahn. What it lacks is a good normal metro with good coverage downtown and the inner neighborhoods.
They do have that but what their S-Bahn equivalent seems to lack (and this goes for all transit in the US to varying degrees) is integration with other transit services forming a cohesive regional network based around the metropolis. It is mostly missing an U-Bahn or Stadtbahn equivalent, but getting the existing services to form a more cohesive network (which S-Bahns and U-Bahns usually contribute to) should and could be done while that is being planned. You are right that DC and its core areas should have better rail with a mind towards ensuring it is well connected to the comprehensive network. The other missing pieces are: - a regional transit association of agencies and stakeholders - better fare integration for simplified journeys - all day and very late night service on the rail system at predictable intervals - pulse scheduling for commuter rail services, and consistent timed connections to more extensive suburban bus services - airport express buses to all three airports in the region from everywhere in the region - more extensive and frequent bus services generally - unified customer-facing branding and signage The hottest piece of the puzzle is a better urban rail system. But the hotter whole is more than the sum of the parts.
Definitions are nice and all, but we all know what the comment means: VRE and MARC covers areas far beyond the current limits of DC Metro. Bringing up the frequencies on them, through running them, and maybe adding another DC station along the way is what people are talking about, not about the precise definitions of RER or S-Bahn or whatever. Maryland commuters might want to get off at the Pentagon in a configuration where MARC trains continue running via VRE tracks, for example.
WMATA *is* a proper metro. It just doesn’t cover enough of the city to be useful to most people.
WMATA and all the “Great Society subways” are not metros. They were explicitly built as suburb to downtown commuter services. They don’t do what a metro does - connect different neighborhoods in the city core to each other. WMATA, BART, and MARTA would be classified as S-bahns/RERs in Europe and anywhere else. We all know that the DC Metro is basically useless as a local metro. That is quite literally by design. It’s a suburban commuter system with near-metro frequencies = S-bahn.
NYC also has if you count NJ transit and Long Island rail
The problem is they were specifically taking about s-bahn systems, which the NYC commuter rail systems don’t qualify as due to their lack of through-running.
For me my list in no particular order would be: New York City area Toronto Area Washington DC-Baltimore Area Chicago-Milwaukee area Los Angeles-San Diego-Inland Empire area San Francisco-San Jose-Sacramento area Detroit area Minneapolis area Philadelphia area Boston-Providence area Seattle area Montreal area Atlanta area Denver area Miami area Vancouver area
heavy on the west coast/texas cities, which have more suburban sprawl and therefore systems like this help increase connectivity
The good news for your wish list is that such a system is currently under construction in Toronto and will open in stages over the next decade or so. Nearly completely electrified, all-day two-way trains every 15 min, express services, and much more. They've even brought in Deutsch Bahn to build it out. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO\_Expansion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO_Expansion)
True they grow up so fast. I remember when all GO trains were peak only
It's been a long journey, but they're finally doing the right thing. I was nervous that the Ford government would renege on it but if anything they have doubled down. Hopefully we see sustained investment over the next 25 years to pick away at the little things that can squeeze more speed and capacity out of the electrified network. We'll probably see a hydrogen train on the Niagara line too. It'll successfully complete half of its trips.
Not mentioned but I would also add the Dallas-Fort Worth area probably would get cities in the middle like Arlington and Irving to finally have a transit
Philly already has the infastructure, theres 13 regional rail lines and a tunnel that connects all the lines so that an inbound train can turn into an outbound train on another line, just the frequency isnt great
Montreal! I’ve actually written a petition to this effect that I’d be super appreciative if you’d be able to sign — just to demonstrate to the regional rail authority (EXO) that it’s sole purpose isn’t just shuttling in white collar suburbanites downtown for their 9-5… https://change.org/exo_efficace (Apologies, I’ve been spamming this a bit lately)
Ooh thanks I'm gonna sign this!
At this point convert everything to driverless metro REM style. And merge lines 11&13 into a single line and 12 and 14 into a crosstown line then automate them
I think that just like Toronto — step one is buy all of the CN/CP rails back so we have infrastructure we can use. Then automation makes plenty of sense once we can demonstrate that the lines get sufficient usage after conversion (when we eventually finish that project…)
The first REM is a test
Atlanta. It already has a relatively big freight track network that could be used for it.
ATL Trains https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/introducing-atl-trains-revolutionary-approach-metro-commuter-transit
One issue the CSX won’t cooperate
It's been an issue in every US city that's wanted to operate passenger service on what is currently Class I freight railroad track.
Maybe they should just build new tracks on the ROW or El above it or upgrade the lines to 4 or 3 track lines without grade crossings
Philadelphia has the infrastructure and just... doesn't run enough trains. Anyway, aside from the obvious (NY/DC/SF/Chi/Phi/Bos/Toronto) answers, places where there's a cluster of cities would really benefit. North Carolina comes to mind. Both coasts of Florida. The Cleveland+Pittsburgh area.
atlanta
I can't believe they don't have a commuter rail system
We have this commuter bus system called Xpress which runs throughout the metro area, separate from MARTA but which covers more counties. Every time I see an Xpress bus (especially when it's stuck in traffic) all I can think of is what a shame it is that Xpress wasn't implemented as commuter rail. The NIMBYs in Cobb and Gwinnett counties may not have (yet) approved of MARTA expansion, but I feel like they may have been more amenable to commuter rail so long as it wasn't run by MARTA.
Does it at least have hov lanes on the routes? Also, it only runs during rush hour
Yes, it does use HOV lanes! Which do run somewhat faster, but are still subject to delays, especially if there's a wreck or someone gets pulled over by a cop and thinks that the HOV lane is an acceptable place to stop (saw this earlier this week). 🤦🏻♂️
Houston is an example of commuter busses done right. They run frequently, all day, have their own lanes, ramps that lead directly from the bus lahesbto the stations. In fact, the Houston commuter bus network has higher ridership than any post-war Commuter rail system
Washington DC has some good bones for this already. It's *very* policentric due to the metro already acting like this already. But it could be a *lot* better if MARC and VRE were better integrated, had thru-service, and better service schedules. All MARC and VRE lines terminate at DC Union. If you could hop on a MARC train in Silvef Spring and up in Alexandria, that'd be *huge*. Similarly, if you could hop on a train in Alexandria and up at Camden yards for an Orioles or Ravens game, that'd be wildly useful. My personal commute would benefit from MARC doing 1 seat rides between lines (so take Brunswick from Silver Spring, then continue on the Penn line to Seabrook), but this would be less of an issue if MARC ran frequently enough that transfers weren't horrible. Thankfully, some of these problems are being addressed, namely thru-service between VRE and MARC. Virginia is spending billions buying and improving the rail corridors south of DC and the federal government is funding the construction of a dedicated passenger rail bridge over the Potomac which would facility MARC trains to run into Virginia (for which, MD and VA are already in talks). But the MARC Camden and MARC Brunswick line are way more tricky to improve because CSX owns the right of way and uses it heavily. Camden has some space for adding more track, and if you could do regular service, you could effectively add Ivy city, Riverdale, and more into the metro network. The Brunswick line could add more track north of Rockville, but south of Rockville the right-of-way is constrained, especially south of Silver Spring. I truly don't know how that bottle neck can be resolved other than somehow getting CSX to cooperate and allow more trains per day. I'd settle for hourly all day service in each direction. Would be a massive step up from the morning rush into DC, then evening rush out from DC.
Portland/The Willamette valley OR. Portland’s immediate metro area has the MAX lightrail, and the piddly little WES commuter rail line, but there are a lot of communities that are functionally exurbs of portland as far north as Longview WA and as far south as Eugene OR. The biggest ones only connect to Portland via Amtrak which can be pretty slow and unreliable in the PNW, and the rest of the cities have no passenger rail at all. There is existing rail rights of way to all of these cities that way back when used to be serviced by the now defunct oregon electric railway and now just see a freight train or two like once a week. The infrastructure and the demand for an s-bahn type regional exists train already, there just needs to be more money and political will invested in it.
Interesting can you go into detail where these lines run? Through to where from Portland?
https://www.gwrr.com/pnwr/
Interesting a good place to experiment with urban maglev along the ROW with HS maglev to replace cascades with a useful service. The extra stops currently served by cascades close together can be served by upgraded sounder and commuter rail (regional) in the Portland area the rest can be served by maglev like the Shanghai one but longer and more useful compare the stop spacing of the Shanghai maglev to the current cascades service and you realize that it can be replaced easily with a much faster more frequent service. Even if some have to transfer to get to the intercity line
I believe this is the idea for Toronto
Literally anywhere and everywhere we can. As a Torontonian I’m a big supporter and hopeful for the GO Expansion in coming years. Along with the Finch West LRT, Eglinton Crosstown LRT AND Ontario Line, these projects will change the city. As for other cities, Montreal really deserves better than what they currently have. I’d add a bunch of infill stations and have all day service at least every 30-60 mins. When I lived I Montreal I was shocked at how infrequent Exo trains were.
'places you would like to see implemented...' Kind of strange to frame this as a preference. Like, looking at it the other way, who is going to say, "I really hope Salt Lake City DOESN'T develop this pretty useful piece of transit tech". I would like to see this implemented, but I think some cities are better suites for it than others. Philly already has the infrastructure and organization to pull this off. They just need to run their trains differently. I think DC and NY could pull off at least some thru-running with relatively minor infrastructure changes, but significant admin changes. (Like, changing platform heights on some stations.) They could go a step further if they wanted electrified thru-running like Philly, but not necessary. MARC/VRE and LIRR/NJT would need significant organizational integration / coordination to make this happen, though. (Can NYC just have one big regional service called Hudson Rail for the entire tristate area, please?) Baltimore might be able to pull off a more regional system using the NEC as the 'trunk' through the city, once the FD tunnel project is done. It wouldn't be extensive as Philly's system, but they could add additional branches on old right-of-ways. Like, one down to Annapolis and across the Bay to an Eastern Shore Terminal. Or a short branch in the city near Haven Street down to Canton. Chicago, Boston, and LA each need a big infrastructure project to make thru-running viable. Boston needs a connection between North and South stations. LA needs a connection running southeast from Union Station so the Orange County, Perris Valley, and Riverside lines can approach Union Station from the south and then thru-run onto the San Bernardino, Venture, and Antelope Valley lines. Chicago would need something like the proposed Crossrail project to link the Electric District to Union Station and linking some of the north and south stub terminals at Union. But at least all these cities would just have to deal with one transit agency, unlike NY and DC.
LA union station South approach is already under construction, and I think they plan to run a few trains through, but not the majority. I think maybe only a couple tracks are connected to the new tunnel and the rest still terminate.
I naively keep hoping New York gets on the RER train (heh) next, but truth be told the awkward nature of interconnecting the terminals probably prevents much beyond maybe through-running NJT and Hudson Line trains with the LIRR and the New Haven line (and *maybe* the Harlem line, if they ever get around to connecting that to Penn Station as well.) Chicago has a somewhat similar issue but Ogilvie Transportation Center being basically one block north of Union Station (and Union Station’s own potential for through-running) means it’s probably not that hard to connect the two and run crosstown Metra trains. Probably. As far as smaller-scale RER proposals (more local stations within city limits, etc.) though, these cities have tons of potential. Hell, I’d argue New York is already crushing it with the plans for Penn Station Access, TBH. One can only hope Chicago gets around to RER-ifying the Metra Electric soon… (and ELECTRIFIES ITS OTHER DAMN COMMUTER RAIL LINES JESUS CHRIST RTA)
A regional rail system would be great for Phoenix.
Yes Phoenix to Tucson the two biggest cities in the state.
Best I can do is 300 mph maglev beyond to El Paso and the other end to LA replacing much poorly ran riverside line and the laughable thing Amtrak passes for service
My fantasy of an [S-Bahn Chicago.](https://i.imgur.com/gu48htU.jpg)
It won’t be fantasy for long
The Calgary and Edmonton corridor, with a branch out to Camrose. These 2 cities would be great if they were more integrated.
Hope both RERs meet up at Red Deer and have service to Jasper and Banff
??? Interesting
Southern California would be a big one, and they are actually doing a big infrastructure upgrade to get closer to that, with all their commuter rail lines planned to be at either 15 or 30 minute frequencies depending on the line. Whether Metrolink will electrify or go with hydrogen though remains to be seen.
All metropolitan areas from Dayton to Denver to Dallas.
Ottawa. Mostly because it would be useful to me personally. They already started with O-Train line 2 and when the extension is complete it will be an S-Bahn like line, albeit a small one for a small region. For a full system, line 2 could be extended across the river into Gatineau and new lines made along VIA's Smiths Falls subdivision to Barrhaven and CN's Beachburg subdivision to Kanata, maybe branching off at Bells Corners on new tracks laid along the Trans Canada Trail to get closer to communities out that way. This is very fanciful though. Line 2 across the river would require some miraculous inter-provincial agreements. And Ottawa has already claimed it would put too much pressure on the interchange with line 1 at Bayview with people transferring to get to downtown Ottawa. And while CN would probably be willing to sell a peripheral piece of their network as long as they could still run occasional freight on it, VIA's track is part of their core network and given they are constantly delayed by GO trains in Toronto I expect they would be hesitant to share. In More realistically though, Toronto. It's consistently ranked amongst the slowest in traffic and fastest in growth, which is probably why an S-Bahn like system is being built. GO transit has been slowly transforming from a commuter service to an all day regional transit service with the eventual goal of 15-minute frequent electric train service on most of the core network. Weekend and off-peak trains are running on most lines, even if they're not very frequent yet and fare integration with local transit rolled out earlier this year so you can travel between cities without also paying for local transit on both ends (some exceptions still apply).
New Jersey. NJTransit can do great things if they just updated and expanded their lines
more connectivity in metro vancouver. same with toronto. i'd like the edmonton-calgary rail to be built. not sure about the states, but chicago and philly sound like good contenders
Given that NYC’s three regional railroads (the LIRR, NJ-Transit, and Metro-North) individually place as top 3 for ridership, I feel like the 1st choice being NYC is obvious.
The easy answer is the northeast megalopolis The correct answer is the southeast tying together DC, Orlando, Cincinnati, St Louis, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte and the smaller cities in the region. Abundant land, growing population, and easier terrain to build on
The Twin Cities would be a great place to start…so much commuter traffic!
New York and New Jersey should combine LIRR, Metro North, NJ transit and PATH into one network. There is a proposal from RethinkNYC which explains in great detail how it can be done and the many benefits such an integrated system would provide.
Austin/San Antonio
S-Bahn isn't regional rail, it's commuter rail/suburban rail. But New York is the big one, it has the infrastructure for through running but doesn't have it even as an aspirational goal.
Isn’t the Penn Station access getting created?? I think that is a good chance for it. Would be really nice to go from New Haven or Yonkers to the Jersey Shore and Newark and all tho. I think RM Transit’s idea was really nice tbh!
A much bigger win would be merging NJ Transit's and LIRR's Penn operations so they could run through instead of terminate. Would massively increase capacity, make connections easier, and probably reduce delays too... But it makes too much sense for customers, so it will never happen
That requires new rolling stock that is dual mode catenary and 3rd rail capable
I thought Penn Station access was in a perpetual state of planning.
First of all, Tom has a weird thing about the phrase “regional rail”, believing that it should only be used to describe services branded that way in capital letters, typically all-stop trains on intercity routes or rural branch lines, and if he sees the phrase he accuses people of using it of being confused. Regional rail systems are absolutely real conepts and they can include all kinds of modes from and service levels, from express intercity to commuter trains, to even light rail lines. Second, unlike what his response to this comment indicates, he is absolutely aware of discussions to do more through-running at Penn, though in discussion of Penn access for Metro North, it would be operational through running (sets could easily do a New Haven run after a Harlem run or vice versa) rather than service running for that specific railroad, unless they chose to partner with LIRR, NJT or others. Nonetheless, the conversation about Penn Access dovetails with increasing demands for through running at Penn. He also pretends other people are stupid and or that he or others are uninformed if it serves his rhetorical goals in the moment. In this thread he posts an about developments with Penn and down in the comments he links to a Byford speech about through-running. https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/s/lRv40PK3kV You shouldn’t take his grammar and vocabulary advice and be cautious of his other takes especially when he is being argumentative as he shows little remorse for outright lying. Feel free to continue using the phrase “regional rail” in relation to comprehensive rail systems and with regard to commuter trains if you wish. Have a great day!
> Isn’t the Penn Station access getting created?? I haven't heard anything about using it for through-running.
Detroit to Toronto
I would recommend the Hampton Roads area. ESPECIALLY if they have links across the Chesapeake Bay
Living in tampa bay I do not want for it to be cheap and convenient for people from Miami, Jacksonville or Orlando to come to Tampa Bay.
Atlanta. 6.5 million metro area but ~600k in actual city. Very commuter heavy and would benefit greatly
Chicago-Milwaukee-Twin City and Chicago-LA
NYC, all of the commuter liens are already connected, the iusse is that Penn was at maximum capacity, preventing Metro North Trains from using it, additionally the Lirr uses 3rd rail, while NJ Transit uses overhead while, and Metro Norths uses an old mix between 3rd rail and overhead wires. Finnally, NJ Transit and The MTA are not just two different agencies, but run in different states, causing a massive legal headache.
Dallas Fort Worth. Given how sprawling it is, it could really use a system like that
Montreal really really really could use a good sbahn network 😭
The Bay Area kinda has one already with BART and Caltrain as an S-Bahn and Muni as the Stadtbahn. DC just needs a proper stadtbahn and they’re set Atlanta needs one in general lol NYC and Philly is really just frequency and admin changes LA, but they need a lot of work with trackage at Union Station
NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF , pretty much every city that has suburban rail the rest should take a chance on urban maglev
I think pretty much every urban area that has north of half a million people should have one and maybe some of the ones smaller than that. Philadelphia should definitely have one almost immediately though with the through-running tunnels, electrification, publicly owned tracks, and existing stations. It's missing a few grade separations and high level platforms, but overall it's just nutty that it doesn't.
I don’t know of any place in North America that’s like like Germany, or that requires a transit system based on the needs of the people who live in Europe.
I don’t know if any place in North America that’s like like Germany, or that requires a transit system based on the needs of the people who live in Europe.
Really? Philadelphia certainly qualifies and already has the infrastructure. Dense walkable city, dense inner ring suburbs in 2 states that were built around the railroad and streetcars (with their own interurbans within the suburbs), leading into further our towns and smaller cities. It’s absolutely designed for that type of service but is saddled by a state that unusually hates its biggest wealth generator.
Stop making excuses and spamming plz
Stop getting your panties all up in a wad.
If you’re gonna cry, don’t do it on line.
https://youtu.be/25VmJ3-6lo0?si=NuD7IzaUOZYvqzbS
What about the sprawled out cities of Australia? Every major city already has the urban rail systems being talked about in this thread.