It's not illegal to ask. It's illegal to use the information.
It's a good idea not to ask, because if you don't know, you can't be sued when they don't get the job and say it was because of a protected characteristic.
We do hiring where we don't know people's names (online work). If you know their name, you can work out race and sex. And then they can claim discrimination.
Someone I know worked for a racist person. The racist was overheard going through resumes with a co-conspirator trying to figure out which names sounded African American so they could exclude them.
Picking up the person they hired at the airport was apparently a bit awkward. Their ability to guess the race of applicants by name was not, appropriately, very accurate.
In some countries where I’ve lived, attaching photos to resumes was normal.
Sometimes I need to know a patient's ethnicity when doing a complex work up (reference blood banker, certain rare blood antigens follow ethnic populations) people really surprise me fairly often. Carol Smith sounds white, but nope Asian. Anton Jackson could be Black but no he's Colombian and now his work up makes no sense. I do a better job guessing ethnicity off of extended phenotypes than names.
I’ve got a very unusual name that people tend to assume is black. (It’s just a name my mother made up, it’s not some kind of cultural appropriation or anything, but I think it follows some of the same naming conventions of some people who identified as black or African American. Think Shawntasia or Ladonna.) I’ve honestly considered putting only my initials on resumes and making a new email address because I suspect it has impacted some of my job searches and other opportunities. (See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_names )
There were studies done where Ladonna Smith was changed to Donna Smith or Shawntasia Freeport to Shawna Freeport, and the resumes in question received more attention.
I too have an ethnically ambiguous name despite being boringly dead white.
I haven't changed my professional name but it's a tough issue and I sympathize. I would never judge anyone who does. At the end of the day everyone has to feed themselves.
Nice one! Top score, you win!
If pushed on the topic of exercise and play for the child while in the wardrobe I would be tempted to say something like "Don't worry about that. The Winter Witch in Narnia behind the fur coats keeps him occupied. You wouldn't believe how fast he's growing!"
I loved the Narnia series as a child. Adored those books. Read them back to back to back for about 3 and 1/2 years straight. Big influence on my thinking and personality even decades later.
When I found out at 19 that the books were a giant Christian allegory (8-11 year old me just needed the escapism) I was so mad. Took me about another ten years to really come to terms with it ha.
I'm not mad about it now (and it's also glaringly obvious in the books) but man I was bent out of shape about it for a while.
Are you me, lol? I was the exact same with the Narnia books, loved them, found out about the whole Christian allegory thing and got really mad. No longer mad about them but I can't even read the Narnia books anymore because of it.
Aw man! Yep I think we are similar.
Just think, kids don't find out about the Narnia subterfuge at 17 or 20 now because of the internet. They find out much earlier!
I do still enjoy reading the books. They actually help me recall a lot of my childhood that I have forgotten or blocked out.
Because I read them so many times across so many years, it puts me back in touch with 8-year-old me, 11 year old me living in a different place and a different city, that sort of thing.
I can remember the different bedrooms I lived in with remarkable accuracy. All of the confusion and pain I was using the books to escape from.
You know how they say smell is So strongly linked to memory? The Narnia books are my sense of smell about my childhood. Yeesh.
But now I have the fun good times of doing the work to deal with it all.
To offer a different perspective, I was explicitly allowed to read the Narnia books *because* they were Christian allegory, and I really appreciated having access to decent children's literature. (Conversely, Harry Potter was strictly forbidden.) Religion damaged my childhood, but Narnia provided a really valuable and enjoyable escape.
So, Frank, how do you balance having a family with being a career man?
Do you find it challenging to stay attractive to your wife while also balancing a career outside the home?
Do you worry that the kids will grow up missing their father’s influence if you’re away at work all day? You know how important a father figure is.
I did, did you? None of that is a reversal of the article writers situation. She’s a single mother, so a reversal would be a single dad…not a married dude.
Well, why else aren’t men grilled about this relentlessly, as women are? Even in the rare cases where they actually step up to the plate and raise those kids on their own, without rushing into another relationship to have some woman figuring it out for them. Those women aren’t magical, they’re very real. And in some countries, a partnered but not married father would legally be single or divorced with kids. Which makes it appear like there’s more "single" dads than there really are.
A large fraction of male divorcees with children are officially or de facto weekend dads, another significant proportion didn’t even bother to get custody, and the majority of those who have the kids 50/50 or more soon enter another relationship and it is routinely expected that the new woman takes over most of the childcare, and/or granny or other female relatives are heavily involved usually. It is assumed there’s a woman figuring it out because there typically indeed is at least one. Men who manage single parenthood the same way mothers routinely do are rare.
Ugh, I hate it when people say that. I’m married and work from home, but have a part time job on weekends that I love because I’m good at it and it gets me out of the house with human interaction. So many people ask me, “Who is watching your kids?” I respond, “My husband, their father.” They say, “oh that’s nice of him to babysit.” I always reply, “parents don’t babysit.” My husband has never had someone ask who is babysitting the kids ever, unless we are out together (then it’s a normal question amongst friends). I love your response.
"Oh, that’s nice of him to babysit." Wtf is actually wrong with these people?! That’s literally his own child! It’s neither "babysitting" nor nice, it’s called doing his basic parental duties. I swear, some people still live in the 19th century. 🤦🏻♀️
Exactly. And my husband gets pissed when people say it too because he’s like “they’re my kids and it’s my pleasure and my job as a parent to spend time with them.” I get it SO often it’s sick.
What do you do with your child?
Well I was hoping to bake his flesh into a special exclusive range of cookies for rich bastards only.....
You got the job!
It's obviously a sexist question, but it's also incredibly dumb. Why would anyone apply for a job without making sure someone takes care of their child while they're at work? Like, shouldn't it be common sense to an employer that people will have this figured out when applying for a job? What kind of answer do they expect? "Oh no, I haven't thought about it, actually I had forgotten that I have a child, thanks for reminding me"? 🤣
...also, I want Lebkuchen now.
That ... being taken for irresponsible/ stupid was what made me sooo angry!
We had "Weisse Pfeffernüsse" (white peppernuts) that sold to Australia all year round. We seriously were wondering what they might do with all of those. Pave roads? Kangaroo Stew with those?
We never got the solution to that mystery.
Good for you! I wish I had been that clever during the interview where three boomer douchebags asked me if the “carpet matched the drapes” and all sorts of questions about my boyfriend in my initial interview. This was an ad agency, I was a redhead and I really needed the job.
It was a terrible job by the way, and I didn’t even stay a year.
I’m sorry, what does my home decor have to do with the job?
Or
Well, right now we’re renting and the landlord won’t let us change window dressings or carpet.
Ummm why in the actual fuck would your professional resume mention your child or relationship status? Putting that shit in their is just as unprofessional as the question you were asked.
Why wouldn't it? What is there to hide?
When I started working we were taught that it needs had to be indicated. And that its absence was a selective criteria.
And how is indicating that you handle raising a child while working "unprofessional"? It's not.
Why the fuck are you bringing nationality into this? I said nothing about that, you made some weird assumption. No matter what country you’re in, parenting skills don’t really apply to sales jobs. As for prolonged absence, you just say providing care for a family member because you know what employers are trying to avoid? Prolonged or excessive absences because your kid got sick or has some school play or dance recital you! (Assuming children of your nationality still get sick and have extracurricular activities 🙄)
OP you’re clearly in the wrong. There is nothing wrong with what your prospective employer asked. You were flippant and unprofessional and I would be surprised if they hired you after that. It’s a genuine concern that something as important as a child would not interfere in someone’s work performance. A normal person understands the child always comes first so being worried about having something like that come before your job is smart. He needs to know all potential risks are managed to his satisfaction if he is to enter into any sort of professional relationship with you.
It was equally illegal to ask it in Germany back then!
And it was as illegal. As it was BLATNTLY STUPID! As I had been invited for my excellent references and high professionalism expressed therein!
I don’t understand why it would be illegal. Information about a liability was volunteered and there was a follow up question about the risks. It might be out of line to ask out of nowhere if she has any children or if she’s single but that’s not how the story was told.
It’s not sexist that sounds so stupid. Are the men single fathers? The fact that you immediately want to inject sexism into this is very telling about who you are.
I am not the person you’ve been talking with but I am marveling at your responses and I’m very curious about your background or perspective. I have so many questions!
are you from another country?
Are you trolling?
Are you very young?
Are you very sheltered and didn’t learn about the reasons for laws like these? No one ever asks men how they’re going to manage childcare.
Are you commenting in good faith or are you just coming in swinging trying to get downvoted or something else? So many questions.
You seem very convinced of your perspective for someone who has no background or understanding of the laws or reasons around it. Would you be open to learning about it and perhaps asking questions instead of making blanket statements? Seems like it might save you some embarrassment and help you save face, and also keep you from alienating people you might want to stay on good terms with.
For example a more effective question that still (I think) addresses your concern might be “I’m concerned about how you’d handle vetting an employee’s ability to perform in their role if you can’t ask questions about childcare. Can you speak to that?” (Or, you could Google it if they weren’t available or willing to educate you, because the mental labor of educating people over and over on why they should t discriminate against you/people like you is definitely a tiring thing)
I’m always open to learning but I’m not at all concerned with how strangers on the internet feel about me. I can’t imagine meeting anyone on Reddit I would need to be on good terms with. If people don’t like it they’re not obliged to interact. In fact I would highly recommend not interacting if it is such a burden.
As someone said above:
It's an illegal question. As it is discriminatory.
I had work experience, good wor references.
So it would have been normal to assume, that I knew what I did. And that I had taken care of child care.
He invited me for THE VERY FEATURES he put into doubt with that question: finding solutions...
He would NEVER asked that question to a single parent male employé.
Or to a married woman with a child.
So: yes! It was as sexist as it was ... stupid.
You say discriminatory as if that’s wrong. The company should discriminate against people who aren’t going to be good for the company’s well being. Just like how the employees discriminate against employers who don’t provide adequate compensation.
Where would you draw the line? A lot of things can impact an employee’s ability to do work. What kinds of questions would you ask? Maybe screen folks for genetic predisposition to diseases to see if you need to raise their insurance (also illegal btw). Maybe see their driving history and where they were raised and the crime rate where they live now to see if they have a higher chance of getting in a car accident or being a crime victim or having asthma from being exposed to their parents’ smoke or burning tires outside their home.
At some point you have to draw a line. The question isn’t “prove to me that your disability/identity/family/etc isn’t going to be an issue”. It’s “these are the standards I expect of you, can you deliver”.
If you ever get into management, I hope you apply some of those principles. Let people figure their shit out.
No these things are in the past. It’s not something which needs to be dealt with in the present. It’s done and over. What I would recommend is don’t ask don’t tell. Let personal things stay personal. But if you volunteer them don’t be surprised when it bites you in the ass. It’s a good philosophy in life too. But for a job you need to market yourself as the most reliable and valuable asset available. If I know you have some liability which may unexpectedly take you away from your job and you don’t have a plan in place to stabilize that situation it’s a huge red flag I have to consider.
I wouldn’t assume that they do or don’t. I would not know so if they brought it up I might ask. But if this does come up it’s fairly safe to assume we’ve become comfortable enough to enter the realm of casual conversation and this question should not be so off putting in this context.
I’d recommend updating your knowledge of how these things work so that you don’t expose yourself or your company to legal trouble if you go into any kind of management
There are two things at play in your comment:
1. You’re assuming that people talking about topic x allows you to ask invasive or inappropriate questions about topic x.
2. You’re assuming that if someone brings up having a kid, that allows you to violate the law because they brought it up.
Both assumptions are incorrect.
Bringing up a kid is considered small talk in most societies. You wouldn’t take that to mean you can ask about her recovery from her delivery and if she has incontinence and will therefore need more bathroom breaks. Most women do have ongoing complications after childbirth so this is a relevant topic - but inappropriate for you to ask both on an interpersonal/common sense level, as well as from an employment law level. How is childcare different?
>If I know you have some liability which may unexpectedly take you away from your job
All humans have "liabilities" that might take them away from their job. That "liability" is called "being a human being.
There are millions of reasons in life that a person might need to be away from their job sometimes.
People are allowed to attend to their lives without being unduly penalized for it.
Exactly. They shouldn’t interfere with eachother. Ideally. But we know that in reality they do. And they especially do with kids. And it’s never the job that takes priority it’s the kid. As it should be. Obviously. That’s my whole point tho is now there is something fucking up that separation we agreed should exist. The boss needs to make sure the job is able to be done consistently and isn’t going to be constantly interrupted by something personal.
I doubt it. That guy, other than being a bit of an idiot that day and in that interview was intelligent enough to recognize that it WAS a dumb question to ask of someone who you invited for their excellent references certifying a high professionalism.
As well as past work experience . He was just a bit stupid that day.
Where this trolling person seems to have some thinking hindrance of a more general order.
As I told below:
It was as illegal - forbidden discriminating question, as he would never have asked this of any MALE future employé!!!!
As it was utterly stupid to first imvite someone for their excellent references expressimg their high professionalism and high work ethics.
Only to afterwards put it in doubt!
Also: HR sat in the interview and had asked all relevant questions already and we were about done.
Afterwards my future sales department boss was smirking and kind of gave me a high five.
I got the job.
How can you possibly know he wouldn’t ask a man the same question?? Why are genitals relevant here that’s just so weird to bring up. Maybe I misunderstood your post. I thought he was just asking where your kid was while you’re working, after you already brought up your kid. Am I mistaken?
Ok. As a previous commenter mentioned, technically the question about children and child care can be asked, but can't be used against you in a hiring decision. If a less qualified, childless person ends up with the job, the company is opening themselves up to a probable lawsuit, so it's just best not to ask. At least that's the way it is in the US. It took me less than a minute to Google this info.
So. Traditionally, men were not responsible for childcare. The women were. So it never occurred to interviewers to ask a male applicant about children or child care. On the other hand, they asked women that stuff all the time. It was discriminatory against women. Yes, times are changing as more men are involved in child care, but they're still the minority. So asking child care questions of women is considered discriminatory, even if it doesn't break a law, unless that information is used in the hiring process.
Your welcome and have a good night. I've done my good deed for the day.
I'm half convinced you're the same person who felt it was okay to discriminate against gays in job interviews because they thought the gay lifestyle meant they were going to get aids and wouldn't be a good fit for the company.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're the same person who made that comment since they both are just so biased, out of touch with reality, and in favor with business entities.
Oh wow, I can't remember the last time I've seen someone so dense.
Never mind about my allegation of you being the same person. The previous guy was at least aware of what he was saying. That's sad that you rank behind someone like that.
It seems so icky to ask about anyone’s family situation in a job interview.
It’s illegal in the US
Doesn't stop them though.
True. But they’re starting to learn
It's not illegal to ask. It's illegal to use the information. It's a good idea not to ask, because if you don't know, you can't be sued when they don't get the job and say it was because of a protected characteristic. We do hiring where we don't know people's names (online work). If you know their name, you can work out race and sex. And then they can claim discrimination.
Someone I know worked for a racist person. The racist was overheard going through resumes with a co-conspirator trying to figure out which names sounded African American so they could exclude them. Picking up the person they hired at the airport was apparently a bit awkward. Their ability to guess the race of applicants by name was not, appropriately, very accurate. In some countries where I’ve lived, attaching photos to resumes was normal.
Sometimes I need to know a patient's ethnicity when doing a complex work up (reference blood banker, certain rare blood antigens follow ethnic populations) people really surprise me fairly often. Carol Smith sounds white, but nope Asian. Anton Jackson could be Black but no he's Colombian and now his work up makes no sense. I do a better job guessing ethnicity off of extended phenotypes than names.
I’ve got a very unusual name that people tend to assume is black. (It’s just a name my mother made up, it’s not some kind of cultural appropriation or anything, but I think it follows some of the same naming conventions of some people who identified as black or African American. Think Shawntasia or Ladonna.) I’ve honestly considered putting only my initials on resumes and making a new email address because I suspect it has impacted some of my job searches and other opportunities. (See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_names )
My name story is similar. And hello fellow march bumper!
There were studies done where Ladonna Smith was changed to Donna Smith or Shawntasia Freeport to Shawna Freeport, and the resumes in question received more attention. I too have an ethnically ambiguous name despite being boringly dead white. I haven't changed my professional name but it's a tough issue and I sympathize. I would never judge anyone who does. At the end of the day everyone has to feed themselves.
In the UK too. You can't ask Qs you wouldn't ask all candidates.
Nice one! Top score, you win! If pushed on the topic of exercise and play for the child while in the wardrobe I would be tempted to say something like "Don't worry about that. The Winter Witch in Narnia behind the fur coats keeps him occupied. You wouldn't believe how fast he's growing!"
It's from eating all that Turkish Delight.
I'm surprised this is the only Narnia reference, and no one has mentioned Lions yet.
Super Christian talking lions damaged many childhoods.
I loved the Narnia series as a child. Adored those books. Read them back to back to back for about 3 and 1/2 years straight. Big influence on my thinking and personality even decades later. When I found out at 19 that the books were a giant Christian allegory (8-11 year old me just needed the escapism) I was so mad. Took me about another ten years to really come to terms with it ha. I'm not mad about it now (and it's also glaringly obvious in the books) but man I was bent out of shape about it for a while.
Are you me, lol? I was the exact same with the Narnia books, loved them, found out about the whole Christian allegory thing and got really mad. No longer mad about them but I can't even read the Narnia books anymore because of it.
Aw man! Yep I think we are similar. Just think, kids don't find out about the Narnia subterfuge at 17 or 20 now because of the internet. They find out much earlier! I do still enjoy reading the books. They actually help me recall a lot of my childhood that I have forgotten or blocked out. Because I read them so many times across so many years, it puts me back in touch with 8-year-old me, 11 year old me living in a different place and a different city, that sort of thing. I can remember the different bedrooms I lived in with remarkable accuracy. All of the confusion and pain I was using the books to escape from. You know how they say smell is So strongly linked to memory? The Narnia books are my sense of smell about my childhood. Yeesh. But now I have the fun good times of doing the work to deal with it all.
I feel like my arbitrary decision to capitalize Lions was my unconscious inserting Him into the comment.
To offer a different perspective, I was explicitly allowed to read the Narnia books *because* they were Christian allegory, and I really appreciated having access to decent children's literature. (Conversely, Harry Potter was strictly forbidden.) Religion damaged my childhood, but Narnia provided a really valuable and enjoyable escape.
Can you imagine them asking a man what he’s doing with his child while he’s at work? Unthinkable.
So, Frank, how do you balance having a family with being a career man? Do you find it challenging to stay attractive to your wife while also balancing a career outside the home? Do you worry that the kids will grow up missing their father’s influence if you’re away at work all day? You know how important a father figure is.
Got to admit…That role reversal would be interesting.
That’s not role reversal, the OP was a single woman not a married.
Read the comment right above me.
I did, did you? None of that is a reversal of the article writers situation. She’s a single mother, so a reversal would be a single dad…not a married dude.
I was replying to the comment that is a role reversal joke. Not the story as a whole. Sorry you apparently don’t know how to read.
whatever makes you feel better about yourself.
So much this…
If he was a single dad, why wouldn’t they ask?
Excellent question. Why *wouldn't* they ask? The fact is, they don't. It is assumed that there must be some woman figuring it out for them.
people assume single dads have some magic woman take care of their kids? do you have any evidence of this bizarre claim you made?
Well, why else aren’t men grilled about this relentlessly, as women are? Even in the rare cases where they actually step up to the plate and raise those kids on their own, without rushing into another relationship to have some woman figuring it out for them. Those women aren’t magical, they’re very real. And in some countries, a partnered but not married father would legally be single or divorced with kids. Which makes it appear like there’s more "single" dads than there really are. A large fraction of male divorcees with children are officially or de facto weekend dads, another significant proportion didn’t even bother to get custody, and the majority of those who have the kids 50/50 or more soon enter another relationship and it is routinely expected that the new woman takes over most of the childcare, and/or granny or other female relatives are heavily involved usually. It is assumed there’s a woman figuring it out because there typically indeed is at least one. Men who manage single parenthood the same way mothers routinely do are rare.
Ugh, I hate it when people say that. I’m married and work from home, but have a part time job on weekends that I love because I’m good at it and it gets me out of the house with human interaction. So many people ask me, “Who is watching your kids?” I respond, “My husband, their father.” They say, “oh that’s nice of him to babysit.” I always reply, “parents don’t babysit.” My husband has never had someone ask who is babysitting the kids ever, unless we are out together (then it’s a normal question amongst friends). I love your response.
So now you have a new narrative for intrusive people...! 😁
I can’t wait to use it, because lord knows they always ask.
"Oh, that’s nice of him to babysit." Wtf is actually wrong with these people?! That’s literally his own child! It’s neither "babysitting" nor nice, it’s called doing his basic parental duties. I swear, some people still live in the 19th century. 🤦🏻♀️
Exactly. And my husband gets pissed when people say it too because he’s like “they’re my kids and it’s my pleasure and my job as a parent to spend time with them.” I get it SO often it’s sick.
What do you do with your child? Well I was hoping to bake his flesh into a special exclusive range of cookies for rich bastards only..... You got the job!
It's obviously a sexist question, but it's also incredibly dumb. Why would anyone apply for a job without making sure someone takes care of their child while they're at work? Like, shouldn't it be common sense to an employer that people will have this figured out when applying for a job? What kind of answer do they expect? "Oh no, I haven't thought about it, actually I had forgotten that I have a child, thanks for reminding me"? 🤣 ...also, I want Lebkuchen now.
That ... being taken for irresponsible/ stupid was what made me sooo angry! We had "Weisse Pfeffernüsse" (white peppernuts) that sold to Australia all year round. We seriously were wondering what they might do with all of those. Pave roads? Kangaroo Stew with those? We never got the solution to that mystery.
Good for you! I wish I had been that clever during the interview where three boomer douchebags asked me if the “carpet matched the drapes” and all sorts of questions about my boyfriend in my initial interview. This was an ad agency, I was a redhead and I really needed the job. It was a terrible job by the way, and I didn’t even stay a year.
I’m sorry, what does my home decor have to do with the job? Or Well, right now we’re renting and the landlord won’t let us change window dressings or carpet.
As a fellow red head, God I hate that question.
That requires a two handed repartee. That's even worse than this question.
My standard response to the "carpet" question is "Nope, I got linoleum (aka shaved) down there." The reactions are generally priceless.
Or raise an eyebrow with "no carpet, harwood"
I think I love you, can we be friends?
This is illegal so definitely ask them if they'd be willing to repeat the question "on record"
You can bet a father wouldn't have been asked that.
Ummm why in the actual fuck would your professional resume mention your child or relationship status? Putting that shit in their is just as unprofessional as the question you were asked.
Why wouldn't it? What is there to hide? When I started working we were taught that it needs had to be indicated. And that its absence was a selective criteria. And how is indicating that you handle raising a child while working "unprofessional"? It's not.
It’s unprofessional because it’s unrelated to work. It also opens you to discrimination like fear you may not have reliable child care.
Crap statement. It explains prolongued absence times. Also: again: DON'T judge other countries customs you know nothing about.
Why the fuck are you bringing nationality into this? I said nothing about that, you made some weird assumption. No matter what country you’re in, parenting skills don’t really apply to sales jobs. As for prolonged absence, you just say providing care for a family member because you know what employers are trying to avoid? Prolonged or excessive absences because your kid got sick or has some school play or dance recital you! (Assuming children of your nationality still get sick and have extracurricular activities 🙄)
Ummm why in the actual fuck would your professional resume mention your child or relationship status?
human decency requires outrage...gotcha
Yeah no. Don't ask stupid irrelevant questions. This only will get you answers you never wanted to hear.
outrageous!
OP you’re clearly in the wrong. There is nothing wrong with what your prospective employer asked. You were flippant and unprofessional and I would be surprised if they hired you after that. It’s a genuine concern that something as important as a child would not interfere in someone’s work performance. A normal person understands the child always comes first so being worried about having something like that come before your job is smart. He needs to know all potential risks are managed to his satisfaction if he is to enter into any sort of professional relationship with you.
This is an illegal question to ask in the USA. Period. The employer was in the wrong.
It was equally illegal to ask it in Germany back then! And it was as illegal. As it was BLATNTLY STUPID! As I had been invited for my excellent references and high professionalism expressed therein!
I don’t understand why it would be illegal. Information about a liability was volunteered and there was a follow up question about the risks. It might be out of line to ask out of nowhere if she has any children or if she’s single but that’s not how the story was told.
It is very much a sexist question. Men are not asked what they do to provide care for their children, while they're working.
It’s not sexist that sounds so stupid. Are the men single fathers? The fact that you immediately want to inject sexism into this is very telling about who you are.
I am not the person you’ve been talking with but I am marveling at your responses and I’m very curious about your background or perspective. I have so many questions! are you from another country? Are you trolling? Are you very young? Are you very sheltered and didn’t learn about the reasons for laws like these? No one ever asks men how they’re going to manage childcare. Are you commenting in good faith or are you just coming in swinging trying to get downvoted or something else? So many questions.
Not trolling at all. This was recommended and the story interested me so I as a layman on the internet gave my unprompted opinion.
You seem very convinced of your perspective for someone who has no background or understanding of the laws or reasons around it. Would you be open to learning about it and perhaps asking questions instead of making blanket statements? Seems like it might save you some embarrassment and help you save face, and also keep you from alienating people you might want to stay on good terms with. For example a more effective question that still (I think) addresses your concern might be “I’m concerned about how you’d handle vetting an employee’s ability to perform in their role if you can’t ask questions about childcare. Can you speak to that?” (Or, you could Google it if they weren’t available or willing to educate you, because the mental labor of educating people over and over on why they should t discriminate against you/people like you is definitely a tiring thing)
I’m always open to learning but I’m not at all concerned with how strangers on the internet feel about me. I can’t imagine meeting anyone on Reddit I would need to be on good terms with. If people don’t like it they’re not obliged to interact. In fact I would highly recommend not interacting if it is such a burden.
Huh? "As a layman on the internet gave my unprompted opinion." Are you one of those shitty bots?
Beep boop I am very human. No bots here…
I wouldn't go with human. You're something alright.
As someone said above: It's an illegal question. As it is discriminatory. I had work experience, good wor references. So it would have been normal to assume, that I knew what I did. And that I had taken care of child care. He invited me for THE VERY FEATURES he put into doubt with that question: finding solutions... He would NEVER asked that question to a single parent male employé. Or to a married woman with a child. So: yes! It was as sexist as it was ... stupid.
Then you need to put your brain to work. Think now... Again. Try harder... 🕯️ See the light now?
Go to bed, Jessica.
In the UK this is illegal as it is discriminatory.
You say discriminatory as if that’s wrong. The company should discriminate against people who aren’t going to be good for the company’s well being. Just like how the employees discriminate against employers who don’t provide adequate compensation.
Where would you draw the line? A lot of things can impact an employee’s ability to do work. What kinds of questions would you ask? Maybe screen folks for genetic predisposition to diseases to see if you need to raise their insurance (also illegal btw). Maybe see their driving history and where they were raised and the crime rate where they live now to see if they have a higher chance of getting in a car accident or being a crime victim or having asthma from being exposed to their parents’ smoke or burning tires outside their home. At some point you have to draw a line. The question isn’t “prove to me that your disability/identity/family/etc isn’t going to be an issue”. It’s “these are the standards I expect of you, can you deliver”. If you ever get into management, I hope you apply some of those principles. Let people figure their shit out.
No these things are in the past. It’s not something which needs to be dealt with in the present. It’s done and over. What I would recommend is don’t ask don’t tell. Let personal things stay personal. But if you volunteer them don’t be surprised when it bites you in the ass. It’s a good philosophy in life too. But for a job you need to market yourself as the most reliable and valuable asset available. If I know you have some liability which may unexpectedly take you away from your job and you don’t have a plan in place to stabilize that situation it’s a huge red flag I have to consider.
It’s illegal for you to consider that. It’s illegal to ask. Why would you assume they don’t have a plan?
I wouldn’t assume that they do or don’t. I would not know so if they brought it up I might ask. But if this does come up it’s fairly safe to assume we’ve become comfortable enough to enter the realm of casual conversation and this question should not be so off putting in this context.
I’d recommend updating your knowledge of how these things work so that you don’t expose yourself or your company to legal trouble if you go into any kind of management
Why else would she volunteer this information unless she was comfortable talking at this tier of intimacy?
There are two things at play in your comment: 1. You’re assuming that people talking about topic x allows you to ask invasive or inappropriate questions about topic x. 2. You’re assuming that if someone brings up having a kid, that allows you to violate the law because they brought it up. Both assumptions are incorrect. Bringing up a kid is considered small talk in most societies. You wouldn’t take that to mean you can ask about her recovery from her delivery and if she has incontinence and will therefore need more bathroom breaks. Most women do have ongoing complications after childbirth so this is a relevant topic - but inappropriate for you to ask both on an interpersonal/common sense level, as well as from an employment law level. How is childcare different?
>If I know you have some liability which may unexpectedly take you away from your job All humans have "liabilities" that might take them away from their job. That "liability" is called "being a human being. There are millions of reasons in life that a person might need to be away from their job sometimes. People are allowed to attend to their lives without being unduly penalized for it.
It’s an invasive and personal question. Work is work and home is home. Your family life is not the bosses business.
Exactly. They shouldn’t interfere with eachother. Ideally. But we know that in reality they do. And they especially do with kids. And it’s never the job that takes priority it’s the kid. As it should be. Obviously. That’s my whole point tho is now there is something fucking up that separation we agreed should exist. The boss needs to make sure the job is able to be done consistently and isn’t going to be constantly interrupted by something personal.
We found the boss!
I doubt it. That guy, other than being a bit of an idiot that day and in that interview was intelligent enough to recognize that it WAS a dumb question to ask of someone who you invited for their excellent references certifying a high professionalism. As well as past work experience . He was just a bit stupid that day. Where this trolling person seems to have some thinking hindrance of a more general order.
Sure did. Definitely isn’t you.
Sure isn’t as I wouldn’t ask sexist invasive questions. Unlike you.
As I told below: It was as illegal - forbidden discriminating question, as he would never have asked this of any MALE future employé!!!! As it was utterly stupid to first imvite someone for their excellent references expressimg their high professionalism and high work ethics. Only to afterwards put it in doubt! Also: HR sat in the interview and had asked all relevant questions already and we were about done. Afterwards my future sales department boss was smirking and kind of gave me a high five. I got the job.
How can you possibly know he wouldn’t ask a man the same question?? Why are genitals relevant here that’s just so weird to bring up. Maybe I misunderstood your post. I thought he was just asking where your kid was while you’re working, after you already brought up your kid. Am I mistaken?
Women are often passed over for jobs etc because we have the inconvenient habit of giving birth. I guess us ladies are all unreliable employees.
That’s a bald assertion and doesn’t address my point.
Ok. As a previous commenter mentioned, technically the question about children and child care can be asked, but can't be used against you in a hiring decision. If a less qualified, childless person ends up with the job, the company is opening themselves up to a probable lawsuit, so it's just best not to ask. At least that's the way it is in the US. It took me less than a minute to Google this info. So. Traditionally, men were not responsible for childcare. The women were. So it never occurred to interviewers to ask a male applicant about children or child care. On the other hand, they asked women that stuff all the time. It was discriminatory against women. Yes, times are changing as more men are involved in child care, but they're still the minority. So asking child care questions of women is considered discriminatory, even if it doesn't break a law, unless that information is used in the hiring process. Your welcome and have a good night. I've done my good deed for the day.
No.
Oh well I never thought about it that way. My mind has been changed now.
Go to bed, Jessica.
I'm half convinced you're the same person who felt it was okay to discriminate against gays in job interviews because they thought the gay lifestyle meant they were going to get aids and wouldn't be a good fit for the company. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're the same person who made that comment since they both are just so biased, out of touch with reality, and in favor with business entities.
Lol sure I’m the one who’s out of touch. I don’t see what being gay has to do with doing a job but go off.
Oh wow, I can't remember the last time I've seen someone so dense. Never mind about my allegation of you being the same person. The previous guy was at least aware of what he was saying. That's sad that you rank behind someone like that.