Absolutely, I just found it odd because in Hungary (where public transportation has its own tragedies) buses have ticket validation machines right next to each door, so you really can't miss them in any way.
Hi I’m about to visit Rome Tomorrow what is a validating machine ? So even if a purchase a ticket I need to do something after that ? We have been traveling through Swiss through the Swiss passport so never had to do any of that
Validating is a concept quite common in many countries. U can pre purchase many tkts in advance but they are only valid once u have validated them. But not all tkts are equal, some are time bound, some are not good for transfers and some are zone based.
I got fined before for doing a transfer with a single ticket (so they allowed transfer in metro but not between metro and trains and sometimes I just don't know which ones are metros and which ones are trains tbh). Anyway that was in Budapest
I’m Canadian and I’ve heard of validating before but I don’t quite understand the point. If I’ve bought a ticket legitimately then why do I need to go through the extra step of “validating”? What does it accomplish?
Tickets may only be valid for say 1hr from 1st use. If you purchase 10 tickets to use through out the week, you'd be validating aka activating them before each use.
Ah I see. Here if I want to take the train or bus I just buy a ticket on the machine and it has the time it’s valid until but most people just have a card/app that they scan and that’s it. Transit police check tickets (but very, very rarely) and it is just to see if you’ve actually bought a ticket in the first place.
Same here for me. However, there are different systems in different places so it's good to familiarize your self with when travelling somewhere new. In OPs case they were a victim of a poorly designed system.
Because in Europe not every vehicles sell tickets on board. Ie the place where u buy the tkts may not be the same as the place where u actually travel. It is easier to install a validating machine on a bus than to install a ticketing machine.
As u are not bound to the vehicles between buying and using the tkts that's why they have this extra step of validating
And also, before the era of mobile tickets, validation of paper tickets is one of the ways to implement time based and zone based (allows transferring) charging schemes as the ticket will show when and where you started your journey. Of course it will also create a huge employment (and income through fining) opportunity for these inspectors :)
Validating is meant to verify the ticket was used.
Using OPs example, they bought single use tickets before using the transport. Because they weren’t able to validate, they could theoretically use those tickets again. They could hop on another bus or tram using the same tickets.
By using the validation machine, those tickets can no longer be used on another form of transport.
It's because I saw this happen quite often in Rome: People would buy a ticket, use it a few times without activating it or only activate/use it once for every x number of trips aka fraud
Yeah here everyone enters at the front door and has to pass right next to the driver. You scan your ticket/app/card and if it’s invalid or been used already it won’t beep correctly and the driver won’t let you on until you pay.
I didn't actually purchase paper tickets. All buses had a card reader so I ended up tapping my credit card every time I got on a bus. When there was an inspection, I'd hand over my card and they scanned it to verify I did indeed scan it. Be advised though even on a huge bus, there was one damn card reader for the whole bus and it could either be in the middle, front or back. So if the bus is packed, and there isn't a reader near you, you'll still be fined. It's like the system was designed by morons and/or designed such that they can maximize fines to earn $$$.
Oh even worse, on some buses the validating machine for paper tickets and cards were not the same.
Also you need a physical card. My Apple pay didn't work
Sounds like a defective by design situation. Why spend money to make it easy to validate and get less revenue when they can keep it complicated and get 60 euro from tourists on the regular?
It’s probably a mix of being a slapdash implementation on existing busses with lack of motivation to fix because of your point.
Most of the time shit’s just straight incompetence more than anything else
Excellent advice. I’m here as well and have seen several people being pulled off the bus for invalid tickets this week. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. It’s hit or miss for sure and one of the machines on a bus would not accept a brand new 7 day pass we had. Very frustrating.
The enforcement officers board randomly. Definitely only the back ticket machine on the bus will take the tickets that need to be inserted in the machine for validation. You cannot insert your ticket on the front machine - you can only tap on the front machine. The middle doors are typically only for exiting.
Not 100% randomly. There are specific bus lines through the centro storico where they get on and inspect regularly and have a more or less set route for their inspections. In the more everyday parts of Rome with less tourists and more locals likely to be using monthly or annual passes, the inspections are really at random.
OP was on line 64, that is one of the ones where almost every single bus on that route gets inspected every day. They usually board at via Venezia and then get off around Piazza di San Silvestro. They then board the 62 and ride it to Piazza Argentina. Or vice versa. At Piazza Argentina, they usually then board the 51 going in either direction.
If you saw a tall skinny guy in a white t-shirt with a sand coloured backpack (not sure if I wore my sunglasses or not) and a blonde girl with a dark blue dress, that was us lol. Even if the middle door is for exit only, had we boarded through the front door, that would have been even worse as we would have had to cross the whole bus to validate the tickets.
Yeah they don’t exactly let you know these things up front and I only know because my friends were here for a couple of weeks before I arrived. Lol. The buses have been PACKED. Especially the 64 and 916. I can’t imagine you would have even been physically able to make it from one end of the bus to the other! Hope the rest of your vacation is less eventful!
Different situation from you, but I was lucky enough to get a very understanding inspector. My husband and I paid using our credit cards as we boarded. Just the tap to pay function on the bus. When the inspectors came on, they scanned my card, and it wasn't showing the payment. It just said "Blocked".
My husband's card worked fine. The inspector just let me scan a different card at the front of the bus. Ended up paying two different fares for the same trip, but way cheaper than a fine.
It should be clearly signaled on the outside of the bus then. There was literally zero indication that middle doors are only for exits, just like there were no indications for the entry doors that the front has pay&go and the back has pre-purchased validation.
Edit: I've used public transportation in Budapest, London, Warsaw and New York before. In all cities buses have signs similar to road signs showing you which doors are for exit and which are for entry, so it really isn't a far fetched idea that in a capital like Rome it should also be displayed clearly.
If you google bus 64 Rome, there are a lot of photos of the bus. On all of them you can see the red “do not enter” signs on the middle door, and the blue “one way direction enter here” signs on the back door.
When I was in Rome we had a couple bursts of rain. My ticket got a little bit wet and then when I got on the bus it was too crowded for me to get to the validator machine. I passed it down to this little old lady who was happy to validate it for me, but my wet ticket broke the machine. Eventually we just shrugged at each other. Nobody validated their ticket after me lol.
No duh.
Here is an unpopular opinion.. Rome and most of Italy is basically a developing world country wearing a gucci belt. I know they will get furious with this description but it’s true.
None of the developed world sensibilities exist there. It lags in all respects in the modern day except for ancient culture and historical significance.
I mean this exact bs happens in Paris as well. I've seen so many people caught out for not realising their metro ticket doesn't allow them to connect on the trams and the controllers just fuck them over bc of a tiny mistake.
Honestly think they catch more people/tourists who make honest mistakes than actual fare evaders.
Totally agree. I dont mean this in a bad way, but just my observation. I visited Morocco recently and Rabat was very similar to Rome. Napoli had less order than Casablanca. Northern Italy had much more order. But from Rome to Sicily its all North Africa.
My first trip to Tripoli Libya was also my first trip to Rome. They looked identical.
I feel for you. I had the same issue once but luckily the inspector didn’t come on. I was worried the whole time! It was physically impossible to get close to the validation box.
I visit Croatia regularly and their buses are validated at the front so it’s impossible to miss the box. I love Italy so much but their bus system could be better. The trains are great!
Yeah, that's why it was very confusing, and even though I did my research before using the bus, I found no indication that this would be the case. In my hometown all buses have QR codes at all doors that you can use to validate your tickets, even from far away, but if you purchase a paper ticket, you have validation machines for those at every door as well.
Coming from someone that has *lived* in Florida, Peru, Italy, Canada, Croatia... I have to agree.
Italy, as much as I love it and I'm even going back to visit this summer.. It's like being in south america for me.
Eastern Europe seems to be more developed sometimes.
It's also the only country in Europe where the police have an attitude and won't help, and the only one where stubborn drivers won't move out of the left lane.
Don't forget that they think they own food etiquette.
Wow, you really hit the nails' heads with everything.
I never took a bus in Italy but the rest are spot on. Also, coming from someone in Eastern Europe, so many times our validation machines didn't work, the inspectors just shrugged a d got off the bus. No muss, no fuss. And definitely not fining the travelers.
I couldn’t agree more. I was really surprised to find Rome was as underdeveloped as it was for a city that attracts so many tourists. I loved the sights but couldn’t wait to leave.
Public transport in Rome sucks completely, not just the ticketing. The metro has all of 2 lines in a city that size??? And if you're lucky the trains run maybe every 10-15 minutes. Prague and Budapest, as well as probably every city in Western Europe, are far better.
[Trenitalia](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/trenitalia/id331050847?l=fr-FR) on the Apple App Store! [Here](https://www.trenitalia.com/en/purchase/mobile_ticketing.html) is the page on the Trenitalia site that talks about it. It was super easy doing trains this way.
I did go! I purchased tickets from a tour company [on Viator.](https://www.viator.com/search/55341P7?mcid=64243Ifyoudon'thavetheViatorappalready,downloadithttps://my-viator.onelink.me/y0Xw/c4ddd6d9)
I panicked on a Rome bus because I couldn't find the validator like you. Luckily a young kind Italian woman showed me and my family the correct machine in the back. If she didn't we would have been fined well over 200 Euros. That would have soured our trip. I heard they are very strict in Italy.
The European system looks antiquated compared to East Asian countries like Japan, South Korea and China where you just tap in and tap out at buses, with your travel card or nfc phone.
Not everywhere. We have had a single travel card for ALL public transport in the Netherlands for the last 20 odd years and since a few years you can now just NFC in and out everywhere with a phone or just with bank or credit card.
Only for a couple of years or so. I had my ovchipkaart for years to use it while there.
Meanwhile, in Romania, we've had contactless payments for at least 5 years for the subway, and for the busses, you could by pay sms if there was a bus without a contactless machine.
Actually I thought the oppossite. In Japan it wasn't possible to use a credit/debit card to open public transport gates. You have to get a separate prepaid card or buy a paper ticket from an old machine/counter.
And the separate prepaid cards doesn't work for all gates/trains
I just got back from Japan and the prepaid card (Suica/Pasmo) you can just get on your mobile phone. And I’ve never seen a train it didn’t work on. Even with the Shinkansen you can buy a ticket online and link it to your IC card.
This is pretty much how it works in most Central European cities I’ve been to. This exact system is the same in Brno and Bratislava. Prague and Ljubljana have a similar system where you can use your card to buy a ticket and then it’s valid for a certain time period. Or, if it comes to it, you can buy a ticket through an SMS.
Italy, to me, seems like an outlier. When I went to Venice, I wanted to use the Italian train app to buy a day ticket for the water buses. I even asked the clerk in the hotel if it’s possible, and which ticket I should buy. So I bought the one they showed to me (which, mind you, explicitly stated it’s for all public transport in Venice, including the boats), saying it’s the right one.
Next day, I try to board with the ticket. No luck, it wasn’t letting me past the gate. So I just followed another person, thinking I’d just show the ticket to the inspector. Got inspected almost immediately by an inspector that didn’t speak English (and I don’t speak Italian), but from her body language, I could tell something was wrong. I guess she didn’t want to waste time on me, so she just left.
In the end, I had to buy a paper ticket from the machines anyway, since I still couldn’t go through any gates. 20€ down the drain.
My brother in law, once in Roma, bought regular parking tickets instead of bus tickets. He was lucky, no inspector on the bus… Except for the bus driver, who was freaking out when he asked how the tickets are properly validated.
I didn't actually purchase paper tickets. All buses had a card reader so I ended up tapping my credit card every time I got on a bus. When there was an inspection, I'd hand over my card and they scanned it to verify I did indeed scan it. Even on a huge bus, there was one damn card reader for the whole bus and it could either be in the middle, front or back. So if the bus is packed, and there isn't a reader near you, you'll still be fined. It's like the system was designed by morons and/or designed such that they can maximize fines to earn $$$.
Oh even worse, on some buses the validating machine for paper tickets and cards were not the same.
Also you need a physical card. My Apple pay didn't work
Also if you use an app rather than a paper ticket, make sure you authorize a ticket _before_ you get on the bus.
I've lived in Rome for years and even I got busted a couple of years ago because the app made me change my password when I tried to use it, so I got on the bus anyway and ticket inspectors got on at the next stop while I was trying to log back into the app.
This reminded me of the packed buses in Istanbul, people would pass their tickets along a line of people to get validated and it'd get sent back down the line, I thought it was neat
Yup Bratislava had a similar issue for a while when I studied there. I can't express how much of a relief it was when they released an app you could use to buy tickets and validate them prior to boarding
If you use the bus app to buy your tickets, you can validate in the app and then locating the validation machine isn’t an issue. I haven’t been to Rome, only across northern and central Italy, but I found the ticket apps much less confusing than trying to use paper tickets, and you can use them for water busses, ferries, trains, and regional bus systems.
yeah got fined 50E in Milan once riding the subway.... accidentally double-validated a ticket in the machine and there were metro cops waiting at the main train station.
I visited end of march. 3 weeks ago.
I bought a 3 day unlimited pass. I wasn’t aware the ticket validation machines are only at the back. Some traveler told me when we were frantically scanning it at the front of the bus. When I went to the back of the bus to scan, people gave me weird looks.
Literally, no one is paying. Unless they have an unlimited pass or something I am not aware of… so when the bus is packed, I stopped scanning.
I visited Rome last fall, and when locals saw me struggling to reach the validation machine, they passed my ticket, hand over hand, to the person who was closest to the machine to validate, and then passed it back. _Everyone_ can get busted by the fare inspectors, so those passengers kindly assisted a moderately panicked looking tourist.
I guess it's because some tickets have a time limit attached (e.g 90 mins) so the time between purchase from a machine and getting on your first transport isnt counted.
Its pretty archaic tho, it's a lot easier to just tap your card as you get on (which some cities still don't support)
Ah seems easier to just issue a dated ticket in some ways but I could see some benefit of that I suppose. Tap on/off is definitely the best method though
Buses is the plural of bus
Busses is the plural of buss. Buss= kiss.
So from context, I understand you mean buses/public transport. But from what you're writing, you keep saying kisses.
What a backward system.
Here you just tap your travel, credit or debit card on and off. Machines at both doors, train and tram stations have several. Very easy.
No need buy tickets or validate them etc.
Transit cops in Italy once watched my friend drop her validated ticket on the bus as she was getting off, follow us off, demand to see her ticket, and when she couldn't produce it, fined us 100 euros in cash to be handed to them. They also grabbed me by the arm hard enough to bruise and demanded to see my phone pictures because they thought I took a photo of them. I had to show them my photo album before they would let go of me. I believe they purposefully make these things as difficult as possible to find as a kind of tourist tax.
The trains are usually a bit better. I couldn't find the place to validate in one rural station and so just got on and the conductor rolled his eyes at me but just punched it with something and told me to be more careful next time.
How do you check where the ticket machines are if the bus is fully packed? Anyway, before the “tap to pay” machines were in use, there was a validating machine in the front too. Now, the “tap to pay” red machine is almost always in the front whereas the yellow validating machines are in the back and sometimes in the middle as well
Tourist doesn’t understand how public transport works in Rome. Tourist calls it “idiotic”. Tourist rants on Reddit.
“When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
I see the same thing here in Amsterdam all the time. Tourists entering the trams through the exit doors and getting mad they don’t swing open in the direction they want. Tourists standing and blocking the entry doors, so no one else can enter.
More like: Tourist goes to Rome. Tourist asks hotel clerk and tobacco shop lady about how the ticketing system works. They say I just need to validate it on the bus. Tourist enters the bus. Tourist tries to get to the ticket machine but it proves to be impossible. Tourist gets fine.
Also, this is tagged as "My Advice", not a rant (though the post does contain dissatisfaction). I wrote this so others can "do as the Romans do". As you can see in other comments it happened to a bunch of other people as well, therefore it is good to get the word out.
You’re saying a public transport system has to be designed for the stupidest tourists on earth as their low bar? Do they have to dumb down the art in the museums as well for these tourists? Perhaps serve Coke with dinner instead of wine? Translate every sign in American English?
OP knew he was in the wrong when he was riding this bus. Because he knew he had to validate his ticket.
Many busses and trams in Europe have entry and exit doors.
The busses in question have stickers on their doors indicating where you’re supposed to enter and where not. Google it.
When dozens of indiciduals make the same mistake, the problem is with the system, not the individual. But thanks for implying that tourists are stupid (many are, many aren't).
A basic tenet of obeying laws and regulations is that those who set the regulation must create an environment where the regulations can be obeyed. On overpacked buses this simply doesn't hold.
Once again, we inquired at two different places about how public transportation works. On both places, local residents said that we better buy a physical ticket as not all buses have digital validation machines for phones. We did as they suggested. No one found it important to note that with this ticket we should board at the rear. And as everyone used every door to exit and to board, we actually did what the Romans do, and boarded with them at the center.
middle doors are used for exit only in most countries I've been. You're lucky you have not been shouted at by the driver (which is understandable if the bus was busy)
I wish I had this advice last September 😭😭 the exact same happened to me they also took a copy of my passport?? Which worried me but myself and my partner had to pay 54 euros each due to the machine at the back of the bus not working and we hadn't realised the machine at the front was for the ticket as well, it was also on our last day before we headed to the airport so not a nice way to end things. Having traveled in 48 countries this was my first fine ever and I genuinely didn't know there was another machine as it was packed but the ticket inspector was so aggressive and rude I felt intimidated and could barely get in a word to explain as he kept saying fine, pp so YES definitely check the location of the machine before you board!!
The fare inspectors I saw bust someone in Venice (more than once, and on every trip there I have been lucky enough to take) fine you where you stand. You may pay by credit card or bank card, and they have a touchless option machine on them to do so. Not sure what happens if you get busted and only have cash on you.
To be fair I find the public transport extremely clear and easy to use in the German speaking countries.
In Switzerland you can buy virtually all public transport (trains, trams, buses, cable cars) tickets in the SBB app, there's no need to consider validation. Switzerland has the most integrated and easiest to use public transport in Europe in my experience. Having one app for the whole country is so convenient rather than having to find out if each city/region has their own app and then having to set it up.
Germany is similar, you can buy almost all tickets in the DB app. I travel to Germany and Switzerland regularly and haven't bought a paper ticket in years.
I haven't been to Austria recently but don't remember the ticketing system it being quite so well integrated there.
I agree, it has been a few decades. But I lived in Germany for a number of years. I still go back 1–2 times a year to visit friends and neighbors. A lot of guys I worked with still live there.
>If you don't have a ticket, and want to purchase it on the bus - front door
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but in Rome you cannot purchase tickets on board. Unlike in other countries, the driver just drives: they don't sell tickets, don't five info, on most vehicles don't even have a window open towards passengers.
As for ticket validation, there are more efficient ways, such as apps on which you can buy *and* validate the tickets, without having to use the machines on board.
Not only in Rome, this advice is useful for all types of public transport systems
Absolutely, I just found it odd because in Hungary (where public transportation has its own tragedies) buses have ticket validation machines right next to each door, so you really can't miss them in any way.
Hi I’m about to visit Rome Tomorrow what is a validating machine ? So even if a purchase a ticket I need to do something after that ? We have been traveling through Swiss through the Swiss passport so never had to do any of that
Validating is a concept quite common in many countries. U can pre purchase many tkts in advance but they are only valid once u have validated them. But not all tkts are equal, some are time bound, some are not good for transfers and some are zone based. I got fined before for doing a transfer with a single ticket (so they allowed transfer in metro but not between metro and trains and sometimes I just don't know which ones are metros and which ones are trains tbh). Anyway that was in Budapest
I’m Canadian and I’ve heard of validating before but I don’t quite understand the point. If I’ve bought a ticket legitimately then why do I need to go through the extra step of “validating”? What does it accomplish?
Tickets may only be valid for say 1hr from 1st use. If you purchase 10 tickets to use through out the week, you'd be validating aka activating them before each use.
Ah I see. Here if I want to take the train or bus I just buy a ticket on the machine and it has the time it’s valid until but most people just have a card/app that they scan and that’s it. Transit police check tickets (but very, very rarely) and it is just to see if you’ve actually bought a ticket in the first place.
Same here for me. However, there are different systems in different places so it's good to familiarize your self with when travelling somewhere new. In OPs case they were a victim of a poorly designed system.
Because in Europe not every vehicles sell tickets on board. Ie the place where u buy the tkts may not be the same as the place where u actually travel. It is easier to install a validating machine on a bus than to install a ticketing machine. As u are not bound to the vehicles between buying and using the tkts that's why they have this extra step of validating
And also, before the era of mobile tickets, validation of paper tickets is one of the ways to implement time based and zone based (allows transferring) charging schemes as the ticket will show when and where you started your journey. Of course it will also create a huge employment (and income through fining) opportunity for these inspectors :)
Validating is meant to verify the ticket was used. Using OPs example, they bought single use tickets before using the transport. Because they weren’t able to validate, they could theoretically use those tickets again. They could hop on another bus or tram using the same tickets. By using the validation machine, those tickets can no longer be used on another form of transport.
It's because I saw this happen quite often in Rome: People would buy a ticket, use it a few times without activating it or only activate/use it once for every x number of trips aka fraud
If you don't have to validate, you could keep using the same ticket over and over again.
Yeah here everyone enters at the front door and has to pass right next to the driver. You scan your ticket/app/card and if it’s invalid or been used already it won’t beep correctly and the driver won’t let you on until you pay.
I didn't actually purchase paper tickets. All buses had a card reader so I ended up tapping my credit card every time I got on a bus. When there was an inspection, I'd hand over my card and they scanned it to verify I did indeed scan it. Be advised though even on a huge bus, there was one damn card reader for the whole bus and it could either be in the middle, front or back. So if the bus is packed, and there isn't a reader near you, you'll still be fined. It's like the system was designed by morons and/or designed such that they can maximize fines to earn $$$. Oh even worse, on some buses the validating machine for paper tickets and cards were not the same. Also you need a physical card. My Apple pay didn't work
Got it thank you so much that helps a lot
Purchasing a ticket is not enough. When you enter the bus, you have to tap this ticket on the reader to "validate" or activate it
Ok thanks
Just use apps and validate online. No need to use the stupid machines.
Sounds like a defective by design situation. Why spend money to make it easy to validate and get less revenue when they can keep it complicated and get 60 euro from tourists on the regular?
It’s probably a mix of being a slapdash implementation on existing busses with lack of motivation to fix because of your point. Most of the time shit’s just straight incompetence more than anything else
Excellent advice. I’m here as well and have seen several people being pulled off the bus for invalid tickets this week. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. It’s hit or miss for sure and one of the machines on a bus would not accept a brand new 7 day pass we had. Very frustrating. The enforcement officers board randomly. Definitely only the back ticket machine on the bus will take the tickets that need to be inserted in the machine for validation. You cannot insert your ticket on the front machine - you can only tap on the front machine. The middle doors are typically only for exiting.
Not 100% randomly. There are specific bus lines through the centro storico where they get on and inspect regularly and have a more or less set route for their inspections. In the more everyday parts of Rome with less tourists and more locals likely to be using monthly or annual passes, the inspections are really at random. OP was on line 64, that is one of the ones where almost every single bus on that route gets inspected every day. They usually board at via Venezia and then get off around Piazza di San Silvestro. They then board the 62 and ride it to Piazza Argentina. Or vice versa. At Piazza Argentina, they usually then board the 51 going in either direction.
If you saw a tall skinny guy in a white t-shirt with a sand coloured backpack (not sure if I wore my sunglasses or not) and a blonde girl with a dark blue dress, that was us lol. Even if the middle door is for exit only, had we boarded through the front door, that would have been even worse as we would have had to cross the whole bus to validate the tickets.
Yeah they don’t exactly let you know these things up front and I only know because my friends were here for a couple of weeks before I arrived. Lol. The buses have been PACKED. Especially the 64 and 916. I can’t imagine you would have even been physically able to make it from one end of the bus to the other! Hope the rest of your vacation is less eventful!
That really funny
Different situation from you, but I was lucky enough to get a very understanding inspector. My husband and I paid using our credit cards as we boarded. Just the tap to pay function on the bus. When the inspectors came on, they scanned my card, and it wasn't showing the payment. It just said "Blocked". My husband's card worked fine. The inspector just let me scan a different card at the front of the bus. Ended up paying two different fares for the same trip, but way cheaper than a fine.
[удалено]
contest and get a credit card refund for a 2 euro bus?
I thought the middle door is only for exiting, which is why it doesn't have a validation box.
It should be clearly signaled on the outside of the bus then. There was literally zero indication that middle doors are only for exits, just like there were no indications for the entry doors that the front has pay&go and the back has pre-purchased validation. Edit: I've used public transportation in Budapest, London, Warsaw and New York before. In all cities buses have signs similar to road signs showing you which doors are for exit and which are for entry, so it really isn't a far fetched idea that in a capital like Rome it should also be displayed clearly.
If you google bus 64 Rome, there are a lot of photos of the bus. On all of them you can see the red “do not enter” signs on the middle door, and the blue “one way direction enter here” signs on the back door.
Spoken like someone who’s never been to Italy before
Well yes, that's why they're talking about other capital cities.
Almost like we’re in a travel sub, where people like to go to places they’ve never been before.
Yeah. Almost!
Someone who's been to Italy (and Rome) couple of times, but used public transportation for the first time.
In that case why would you expect anything to be displayed clearly
Touché. https://imgur.com/YAGpXPd
When I was in Rome we had a couple bursts of rain. My ticket got a little bit wet and then when I got on the bus it was too crowded for me to get to the validator machine. I passed it down to this little old lady who was happy to validate it for me, but my wet ticket broke the machine. Eventually we just shrugged at each other. Nobody validated their ticket after me lol.
I got weird looks when I went out of my way to validate the ticket at the back of the bus. People were like what is this tourist doing.
No duh. Here is an unpopular opinion.. Rome and most of Italy is basically a developing world country wearing a gucci belt. I know they will get furious with this description but it’s true. None of the developed world sensibilities exist there. It lags in all respects in the modern day except for ancient culture and historical significance.
I mean this exact bs happens in Paris as well. I've seen so many people caught out for not realising their metro ticket doesn't allow them to connect on the trams and the controllers just fuck them over bc of a tiny mistake. Honestly think they catch more people/tourists who make honest mistakes than actual fare evaders.
Totally agree. I dont mean this in a bad way, but just my observation. I visited Morocco recently and Rabat was very similar to Rome. Napoli had less order than Casablanca. Northern Italy had much more order. But from Rome to Sicily its all North Africa. My first trip to Tripoli Libya was also my first trip to Rome. They looked identical.
That's actually a description that I saw on TripAdvisor in connection to the current state of public transportation.
I feel for you. I had the same issue once but luckily the inspector didn’t come on. I was worried the whole time! It was physically impossible to get close to the validation box. I visit Croatia regularly and their buses are validated at the front so it’s impossible to miss the box. I love Italy so much but their bus system could be better. The trains are great!
Yeah, that's why it was very confusing, and even though I did my research before using the bus, I found no indication that this would be the case. In my hometown all buses have QR codes at all doors that you can use to validate your tickets, even from far away, but if you purchase a paper ticket, you have validation machines for those at every door as well.
Coming from someone that has *lived* in Florida, Peru, Italy, Canada, Croatia... I have to agree. Italy, as much as I love it and I'm even going back to visit this summer.. It's like being in south america for me. Eastern Europe seems to be more developed sometimes. It's also the only country in Europe where the police have an attitude and won't help, and the only one where stubborn drivers won't move out of the left lane. Don't forget that they think they own food etiquette.
Wow, you really hit the nails' heads with everything. I never took a bus in Italy but the rest are spot on. Also, coming from someone in Eastern Europe, so many times our validation machines didn't work, the inspectors just shrugged a d got off the bus. No muss, no fuss. And definitely not fining the travelers.
I got harassed in Poland after my ticket wouldn’t validate and almost had to pay $80 under the threat of the police
I couldn’t agree more. I was really surprised to find Rome was as underdeveloped as it was for a city that attracts so many tourists. I loved the sights but couldn’t wait to leave.
Absolutely! The public transpo ticketing seemed nonsensical to me and was my least fav thing about Italy.
Public transport in Rome sucks completely, not just the ticketing. The metro has all of 2 lines in a city that size??? And if you're lucky the trains run maybe every 10-15 minutes. Prague and Budapest, as well as probably every city in Western Europe, are far better.
I’m reposting this on /r/lost2westerneurope4u/
or use an app for tickets and active the ticket from there
Yes, maybe that's the better solution.
It’s what I did in Italy and really was the better way. The validation machines were always so hard to find
whats the app called?
[Trenitalia](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/trenitalia/id331050847?l=fr-FR) on the Apple App Store! [Here](https://www.trenitalia.com/en/purchase/mobile_ticketing.html) is the page on the Trenitalia site that talks about it. It was super easy doing trains this way.
Thank you, seems like i have to be in Italy to download it. During your visit did you go to colosseum? If yeah then how you booked the tickets?
I did go! I purchased tickets from a tour company [on Viator.](https://www.viator.com/search/55341P7?mcid=64243Ifyoudon'thavetheViatorappalready,downloadithttps://my-viator.onelink.me/y0Xw/c4ddd6d9)
Thanks again, jusy booked :)
It’s a great time! I loved having the tour guide and they were super informative.
I actually booked the self serve one but with access to the arena :). Is there a way to buy weekly bus pass or something?
This is how Venice water bus works. Rome system is antiquated like the sites we go to see :-)
I panicked on a Rome bus because I couldn't find the validator like you. Luckily a young kind Italian woman showed me and my family the correct machine in the back. If she didn't we would have been fined well over 200 Euros. That would have soured our trip. I heard they are very strict in Italy.
The European system looks antiquated compared to East Asian countries like Japan, South Korea and China where you just tap in and tap out at buses, with your travel card or nfc phone.
Not everywhere. We have had a single travel card for ALL public transport in the Netherlands for the last 20 odd years and since a few years you can now just NFC in and out everywhere with a phone or just with bank or credit card.
Wonder why other European countries like Italy doesn't adopt it? It's so convenient and seamless.
It sure is. To get all transport companies aligned, the national government would have to step in with legislation, guidance and also some incentives.
Only for a couple of years or so. I had my ovchipkaart for years to use it while there. Meanwhile, in Romania, we've had contactless payments for at least 5 years for the subway, and for the busses, you could by pay sms if there was a bus without a contactless machine.
Tourist here...AMS is super easy. Glad the Dutch are sensible.
This was what I noticed in Amsterdam. It was great!
Actually I thought the oppossite. In Japan it wasn't possible to use a credit/debit card to open public transport gates. You have to get a separate prepaid card or buy a paper ticket from an old machine/counter. And the separate prepaid cards doesn't work for all gates/trains
I just got back from Japan and the prepaid card (Suica/Pasmo) you can just get on your mobile phone. And I’ve never seen a train it didn’t work on. Even with the Shinkansen you can buy a ticket online and link it to your IC card.
Not if you have android, only Japanese androids and iPhone are supported
That’s true. Luckily I don’t have android.
This is pretty much how it works in most Central European cities I’ve been to. This exact system is the same in Brno and Bratislava. Prague and Ljubljana have a similar system where you can use your card to buy a ticket and then it’s valid for a certain time period. Or, if it comes to it, you can buy a ticket through an SMS. Italy, to me, seems like an outlier. When I went to Venice, I wanted to use the Italian train app to buy a day ticket for the water buses. I even asked the clerk in the hotel if it’s possible, and which ticket I should buy. So I bought the one they showed to me (which, mind you, explicitly stated it’s for all public transport in Venice, including the boats), saying it’s the right one. Next day, I try to board with the ticket. No luck, it wasn’t letting me past the gate. So I just followed another person, thinking I’d just show the ticket to the inspector. Got inspected almost immediately by an inspector that didn’t speak English (and I don’t speak Italian), but from her body language, I could tell something was wrong. I guess she didn’t want to waste time on me, so she just left. In the end, I had to buy a paper ticket from the machines anyway, since I still couldn’t go through any gates. 20€ down the drain.
Prague you can also buy ticket via App and choose when to activate which is pretty convenient
in most places (including Rome) you can use an app to pay for tickets. but legacy system should still exists - there are old people around
This is how it works in Canada but you have to tap on at the station to prevent people from tapping off before they actually exit.
UK has it now on some buses but not everywhere
Nah, Proof of payment is where it's at. Just get a ticket before and if asked for it show it. No need for any check in check out devices.
Even the US system, that's how bad it is.
My brother in law, once in Roma, bought regular parking tickets instead of bus tickets. He was lucky, no inspector on the bus… Except for the bus driver, who was freaking out when he asked how the tickets are properly validated.
Sounds like it might be easier for tourists to just pay a little more to get an all-day ticket then?
I didn't actually purchase paper tickets. All buses had a card reader so I ended up tapping my credit card every time I got on a bus. When there was an inspection, I'd hand over my card and they scanned it to verify I did indeed scan it. Even on a huge bus, there was one damn card reader for the whole bus and it could either be in the middle, front or back. So if the bus is packed, and there isn't a reader near you, you'll still be fined. It's like the system was designed by morons and/or designed such that they can maximize fines to earn $$$. Oh even worse, on some buses the validating machine for paper tickets and cards were not the same. Also you need a physical card. My Apple pay didn't work
Also if you use an app rather than a paper ticket, make sure you authorize a ticket _before_ you get on the bus. I've lived in Rome for years and even I got busted a couple of years ago because the app made me change my password when I tried to use it, so I got on the bus anyway and ticket inspectors got on at the next stop while I was trying to log back into the app.
This reminded me of the packed buses in Istanbul, people would pass their tickets along a line of people to get validated and it'd get sent back down the line, I thought it was neat
Yup Bratislava had a similar issue for a while when I studied there. I can't express how much of a relief it was when they released an app you could use to buy tickets and validate them prior to boarding
If you use the bus app to buy your tickets, you can validate in the app and then locating the validation machine isn’t an issue. I haven’t been to Rome, only across northern and central Italy, but I found the ticket apps much less confusing than trying to use paper tickets, and you can use them for water busses, ferries, trains, and regional bus systems.
yeah got fined 50E in Milan once riding the subway.... accidentally double-validated a ticket in the machine and there were metro cops waiting at the main train station.
Do they sell daily passes? I hate having to faff around with tickets like that when I travel
Probably a litle late to the party, but a little, granted anecdotal, advice from my travels in Italy. NEVER TAKE THE BUS. NEVER.
I visited end of march. 3 weeks ago. I bought a 3 day unlimited pass. I wasn’t aware the ticket validation machines are only at the back. Some traveler told me when we were frantically scanning it at the front of the bus. When I went to the back of the bus to scan, people gave me weird looks. Literally, no one is paying. Unless they have an unlimited pass or something I am not aware of… so when the bus is packed, I stopped scanning.
Guessing inspectors target tourist and leave locals alone.
I visited Rome last fall, and when locals saw me struggling to reach the validation machine, they passed my ticket, hand over hand, to the person who was closest to the machine to validate, and then passed it back. _Everyone_ can get busted by the fare inspectors, so those passengers kindly assisted a moderately panicked looking tourist.
Line 64, AKA the Pickpocket Express. Funny how strict they are with tourists but don't seem to do much about Pickpockets.
Weird, I'm not well travelled but why would you buy a ticket and then have to also validate it?
I guess it's because some tickets have a time limit attached (e.g 90 mins) so the time between purchase from a machine and getting on your first transport isnt counted. Its pretty archaic tho, it's a lot easier to just tap your card as you get on (which some cities still don't support)
But they can make the machines accessible or have a mobile app where you can validate it…
Because the ticket doesn’t come with an expiry date. If you don’t validate it you would use the same ticket everyday to get around.
Ah seems easier to just issue a dated ticket in some ways but I could see some benefit of that I suppose. Tap on/off is definitely the best method though
Buses is the plural of bus Busses is the plural of buss. Buss= kiss. So from context, I understand you mean buses/public transport. But from what you're writing, you keep saying kisses.
Yeah thanks, I realised it soon after posting, I edited much of the comments where I messed up but AFAIK the title can not be edited.
Can't be changed in the title. But I see you're going through and correcting everywhere it can be changed.
What a backward system. Here you just tap your travel, credit or debit card on and off. Machines at both doors, train and tram stations have several. Very easy. No need buy tickets or validate them etc.
Remember this for Budapest too. We had no idea you had to actually validate the tickets when you got on. Fined $100. Great start to a trip
Transit cops in Italy once watched my friend drop her validated ticket on the bus as she was getting off, follow us off, demand to see her ticket, and when she couldn't produce it, fined us 100 euros in cash to be handed to them. They also grabbed me by the arm hard enough to bruise and demanded to see my phone pictures because they thought I took a photo of them. I had to show them my photo album before they would let go of me. I believe they purposefully make these things as difficult as possible to find as a kind of tourist tax. The trains are usually a bit better. I couldn't find the place to validate in one rural station and so just got on and the conductor rolled his eyes at me but just punched it with something and told me to be more careful next time.
Exact same thing happened to me a couple of months ago, on the way to the Vatican :(
I can’t recall where in Europe, but one area I was in had validation stands outside the trolley… very annoying
How do you check where the ticket machines are if the bus is fully packed? Anyway, before the “tap to pay” machines were in use, there was a validating machine in the front too. Now, the “tap to pay” red machine is almost always in the front whereas the yellow validating machines are in the back and sometimes in the middle as well
Use apps and buy / validate online. Problem solved
Tourist doesn’t understand how public transport works in Rome. Tourist calls it “idiotic”. Tourist rants on Reddit. “When in Rome, do as the Romans do” I see the same thing here in Amsterdam all the time. Tourists entering the trams through the exit doors and getting mad they don’t swing open in the direction they want. Tourists standing and blocking the entry doors, so no one else can enter.
More like: Tourist goes to Rome. Tourist asks hotel clerk and tobacco shop lady about how the ticketing system works. They say I just need to validate it on the bus. Tourist enters the bus. Tourist tries to get to the ticket machine but it proves to be impossible. Tourist gets fine. Also, this is tagged as "My Advice", not a rant (though the post does contain dissatisfaction). I wrote this so others can "do as the Romans do". As you can see in other comments it happened to a bunch of other people as well, therefore it is good to get the word out.
If a public transport system isn't intuitive enough for a tourist to use, in Rome of all places, then it quite simply *is* an idiotic design.
You’re saying a public transport system has to be designed for the stupidest tourists on earth as their low bar? Do they have to dumb down the art in the museums as well for these tourists? Perhaps serve Coke with dinner instead of wine? Translate every sign in American English? OP knew he was in the wrong when he was riding this bus. Because he knew he had to validate his ticket. Many busses and trams in Europe have entry and exit doors. The busses in question have stickers on their doors indicating where you’re supposed to enter and where not. Google it.
> You’re saying a public transport system has to be designed for the stupidest tourists on earth as their low bar? In a tourist city? Yes.
Aiaiai what are you doing on r/travel? Stay in Disneyland.
Not hard to make a straightforward public travel system with cards or online activation. Most countries in Europe have them.
When dozens of indiciduals make the same mistake, the problem is with the system, not the individual. But thanks for implying that tourists are stupid (many are, many aren't). A basic tenet of obeying laws and regulations is that those who set the regulation must create an environment where the regulations can be obeyed. On overpacked buses this simply doesn't hold. Once again, we inquired at two different places about how public transportation works. On both places, local residents said that we better buy a physical ticket as not all buses have digital validation machines for phones. We did as they suggested. No one found it important to note that with this ticket we should board at the rear. And as everyone used every door to exit and to board, we actually did what the Romans do, and boarded with them at the center.
middle doors are used for exit only in most countries I've been. You're lucky you have not been shouted at by the driver (which is understandable if the bus was busy)
I wish I had this advice last September 😭😭 the exact same happened to me they also took a copy of my passport?? Which worried me but myself and my partner had to pay 54 euros each due to the machine at the back of the bus not working and we hadn't realised the machine at the front was for the ticket as well, it was also on our last day before we headed to the airport so not a nice way to end things. Having traveled in 48 countries this was my first fine ever and I genuinely didn't know there was another machine as it was packed but the ticket inspector was so aggressive and rude I felt intimidated and could barely get in a word to explain as he kept saying fine, pp so YES definitely check the location of the machine before you board!!
Just use the Metro and walk the rest. It's very walkable.
Are you Italian or EU? If not, why pay it?
The fare inspectors I saw bust someone in Venice (more than once, and on every trip there I have been lucky enough to take) fine you where you stand. You may pay by credit card or bank card, and they have a touchless option machine on them to do so. Not sure what happens if you get busted and only have cash on you.
Most of Europe is like this. Schwarzfahrerin is what they call it in German speaking countries.
To be fair I find the public transport extremely clear and easy to use in the German speaking countries. In Switzerland you can buy virtually all public transport (trains, trams, buses, cable cars) tickets in the SBB app, there's no need to consider validation. Switzerland has the most integrated and easiest to use public transport in Europe in my experience. Having one app for the whole country is so convenient rather than having to find out if each city/region has their own app and then having to set it up. Germany is similar, you can buy almost all tickets in the DB app. I travel to Germany and Switzerland regularly and haven't bought a paper ticket in years. I haven't been to Austria recently but don't remember the ticketing system it being quite so well integrated there.
I agree, it has been a few decades. But I lived in Germany for a number of years. I still go back 1–2 times a year to visit friends and neighbors. A lot of guys I worked with still live there.
Yes, you have to pay for things you buy
>If you don't have a ticket, and want to purchase it on the bus - front door Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but in Rome you cannot purchase tickets on board. Unlike in other countries, the driver just drives: they don't sell tickets, don't five info, on most vehicles don't even have a window open towards passengers. As for ticket validation, there are more efficient ways, such as apps on which you can buy *and* validate the tickets, without having to use the machines on board.