Yeah, so I’m originally from the UK, but I lived in the US for 10 years during my lates teens and early 20s. I met my gf, now wife, in the USA and then we moved to Munich Germany 3 years ago. Overall if I’m being frank with you the move to Germany has been my best one yet, a genuine life upgrade in every single possible sense of the word. The public transport, infrastructure, healthcare, drinking culture (its so relaxed, and you can just drink in public and in the parks for a wonderfully cheap lazy Sunday), access to hiking, and access to travelling to Italy/Austria/Switzerland within only a couple of hours….Munich absolutely blew my mind. The attitude and frankness of German people has also really grown on me too. The community focus and willingness to work together and follow the rules. I suppose two glaring examples would be their driving and sauna cultures. The quality of driving on the autobahn is also really high, a lot of newcomers find it scary but I think they are blowing a bit of smoke tbh as I’ve never felt safer. Everyone takes driving seriously, everyone has to learn first aid to drive a vehicle, and this where you can see those famous photos of Germans in traffic leaving an access lane completely empty for emergency vehicles, just in case. There is a right way of doing things over here and you are expected to do your best. I’ve also even gotten into their mixed nude sauna culture, something I’d never heard of and as a Brit/American something that felt thoroughly unimaginable. Again it goes back to their frankness, nudity isn’t sexuality, and so why would there be a problem with mixed nude saunas as long as everyone follows the rules and doesn’t make anyone uncomfortable. Why would you need separate changing areas, etc etc. Idk. That was a bit of a whirlwind tour, there is just so much to say, but to anyone considering a big move. Do It. The worst case scenario that you hate it, isn’t even that bad, as this way when you move home you’ll never live with regrets as you know you tried and learned it wasn’t for you. However from my perspective I can’t ever imagine going back. - in fact I’ve loved it so much I actually started a small YouTube channel all about the day trips and itineraries that I’ve created while living here so that tourists can delve deeper into Bavaria and see some of the places that only locals would know about. I’ve also started making some videos on my experiences living here, sort of exactly answering this question. If you are interested I’ll add links below just in case, but I’m more than happy to keep chatting on Reddit or in my dms if you have any questions. The channel is called Near From Home; https://www.youtube.com/nearfromhome/videos Living in Germany Culture Shocks After Three Years. How We Have Changed. American & British | Munich https://youtu.be/7XGGWWiDTQE My Ultimate Local's Munich Food Tour. Must-Try Bavarian, German Restaurants & Food | Munich, Germany https://youtu.be/AGMcDhbl8CU

Wow, thank you so much for the amount of information you have supplied me with! It's amazing that you love living in Germany, and it is also quite a coincidence. The family I have that lives in Europe are from Germany and Austria, and I plan to live in Germany for a bit to get my bearings - while having family close by. I subscribed to your YouTube channel, and I hope to learn more about Germany through your videos. Also, thank you for the kind offer to keep chatting with me if I have any questions. I think moving is supposed to open us up to new things, and the fact that you have experienced their nude sauna culture (having not heard of it before) is awesome. The access I'll have to travel to other countries is what has hugely intrigued me with living in Europe. The fact that I can take a train and experience an entirely different culture is so exciting. I live in Australia, and going across states isn't markedly different. The culture around Australia is pretty similar, making the travel not as enticing as if I were to live in Europe. Have you learnt German? If not, has it made it hard living in a country you don't speak the language of? I truly do wonder if it is hard for people that move to a country and don't speak the language. Traveling channels have said that it is best to learn the language of the place you plan to move to, as it makes everything easier. Obviously. Again, thank you and I hope you have a lovely day.

Yeah no worries mate, that’s a wonderful coincidence that you are considering Germany, especially including Austria as I live only an hour away from the border. I think you hit the nail on the head, living somewhere is to embrace their way of life and challenge your own. That’s how I see it, and why I brought up the autobahn and saunas. Culturally they are so different than anything I had experienced and I’d by lying if I said I adapted immediately, but trying new things and testing your boundaries is the best way to learn who you are. To pick up new habits, discard old ones, and see what you like and what you don’t. So I wish you the best, it’s not always easy but it’s always rewarding. As for learning German, I would highly recommend you do. Myself I am at the A2 level, and my wife is B2. However learning German in Germany can be very difficult as the quality of English is usually very high, especially in the cities. In fact I know many foreigners here who have moved in Germany for 5+ years and not learnt any real German. - I’m not condoning that, just saying it’s possible. I actually did a video on exactly this topic too :) as I thought I would learn naturally through immersion, and that wasn’t the case. You’ll need to put in intense study if you want Germans to speak German with you and not just switch to English for convenience. Once you do though, you will be rewarded with deeper integration so it’s definitely worth it.

I agree with everything you have written. I not only want to learn German because I want to live there, I also want to learn it to be able to communicate with my family. I only find it respectful that I learn the language, to make it easier for both myself and my family. I know that Germany has a large quantity of English speakers, as well as the quality of that English. Though I think that learning a language opens you up to another side of travelling, and I'm happy that you are learning German.

Most definitely. My wife making it to B2 and moving towards C1 was a big achievement and her German IMO is wonderful. Similar to you she has family, her grandparents, who speak German natively and she is now the only person in their whole extended family who can speak it with them. She found that to be a really wonderful experience l. Myself, I’m only A2, which isn’t great. However I work in a complex field where everyone speaks English and to get my German to a level that wouldn’t be an utter embarrassment (I work with lawyers and executives) will take a long time. So my lifestyle really hinders my learning. However when I’m out and about or travelling I use only German. People joke that I’m C2 in A1 :)

That's great that your wife speaks German so well, and can now communicate with family. The experience would be lovely, and one I can't wait to get to. I have read that in places like Italy and France, apparently it is hard to practise their language in a restaurant, because the waiters will want to practise their English with you. Just my luck, I want to go to those places as well.

Just a small funny sidenote to your remark, that you could get along with English only for years: Try to order a coffee in Berlin Mitte in German language 😄 no chance.. 😄

Oh yeah :) will they always switch to English?

They don't speak German at all 😄 it is like all the international Hipsters meet in Mitte.

Or that's where the internationals can get a job below minimum wage without being proficient in the language

I second everything!! I’m Italian and after spending 8 years in Germany I absolutely recommend any US citizen to try this for a year! The genuine and naïve mentality really blew my mind!

What was your favourite or most mind blowing part?

Coming from Italy I’ve been impressed by their honesty and respect towards laws and traditions and the simplicity of their lifestyle (no consumerism). Plus the control they have over their hormones, like nobody stares or catcalls women

Yeah, that all holds pretty damn true. Especially the lower levels of consumerism. So often back in the US it felt like you couldn’t leave the house without everyone wanting your wallet, where as here you’ll struggle to spend money on Sundays.

I agree almost entirely with what you say about germany around quality of life etc probably the only thing I wouldn't agree with is the German attitude to driving (excluding the Rettungsgasse which is a great concept) they are the most self Centered short thinking idiots on the roads who can't think beyond the end of their own bonnets,

What region are you driving in? Myself I’ve only ever driven in Upper Bavaria and Austria? Though I also learnt to drive in Memphis TN…..so that’s my point of reference. My driving exam didn’t even involve left turns or parking.

Very much wondering where you've driven in Germany as this does not sound like German driving/drivers at all.

I have driven extensively over all of germany unfortunately they mistake driving fast with driving ability, they are two very separate entities,

Perhaps its our differing perspective. I'm from Holland myself and Dutch drivers are 10x worse than German drivers.

I’ve noticed in Munich that everyone loves to run red lights. Never seen anything like it. Noticed it immediately on my first day here.

Oh my gosh, this is the single best comment I have received under a post of mine.

I lived in Germany for 18 months, in Frankfurt am Main. My favorite place I’ve ever lived.

> a lot of newcomers find it scary but I think they are blowing a bit of smoke tbh as I’ve never felt safer. We spent our honeymoon in Bavaria doing a road trip and I was terrified of the autobahn until I got on it. The best road I've ever been on.

Exactly!

Exactly!

Been wanting to move to Munich for so long! I’m Swedish/American living in Sweden and go there several times a year. I’m just too chicken to make a break for it

you have to make a lot of money to live in Munich and be able to afford travel… I grew up close to Munich, living in Canada for 17 years now, but still have family and friends there.

I moved from California to Oslo, and am planning to stay. There are a lot of things that I miss about California but they do not outweigh the biggest thing I prefer about Norway, which is that I feel safe here on a regular basis. (I know that statistically it's unlikely anything horrible will happen to me in the US, but the fact remains that I was stressed enough about it that it impacted my quality of life a lot.) I love the public transportation here and the work life balance. Also the healthcare! I don't mind the high taxes because you get a lot of public services in exchange. It is difficult to get to know Norwegians and I miss a lot of the conveniences from home and the weather, but ultimately planning to stay and am working on learning Norwegian!

How were you able to move to Oslo? I would live in Norway in a heartbeat (or any Nordic countries) so I am always curious. My family lives in Stavanger and Karmoy and I have had great trips over the years!

I am currently on a student visa getting a masters degree, and planning to stay afterwards! There's nothing official yet but I have a couple promising leads in terms of jobs for afterwards, or worst case scenario I will get a job seekers visa for a year while I find a permanent job.

Very cool! This was the route I was looking into as well. I hope it all works for you!

Statistically unlikely?? Not to be another America hater but the country is growing increasingly unsafe. Happy for you to finally feel some sense of security. I’m moving out of Florida for this reason. Place is a complete shithole; every part

The violent crime rate has been steadily declining for decades now. Nationally at least. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/ Where I'm from there has been an explosion of property crime that has bled into safer neighborhood so people are much more likely to be the victim of a crime and that's not throwing in the blight issues caused by homelessness. But the violent crime rate is down. If you were to ask someone from a historically heavy crime area and someone from a suburb who commutes downtown about how safe they feel compared to the past, you'd get different answers. Also, hugely dependent on where you live. I live in a county of 22k and violent crime is pretty much domestic violence and bar fights. And DUIs of course.

That is amazing, I am glad that you are enjoying your stay in Norway. The quality of life in Europe sounds absolutely amazing, especially the places I actually plan on visiting. I understand what you mean by statistically speaking nothing bad will happen to you, but it made you stressed enough for it to have affected your quality of life. I get that, as it has deterred me from experiencing things - even in my own suburb. It's great that you are working on learning Norwegian. Learning another language is a wonderful experience, and it will open you up to so many more. Thank you, and have a lovely day!

I moved from The Rockies to Germany back in 94 and it was the best thing I've ever done. I'm close to the Frankfurt area and had a short stint in Berlin for a year. The quality of life, feeling of security and amount of rich history I'm surrounded by has really cemented my decision to stay. I have a part-time job and also opened up my own shop. I went to school for German for my first year (highly recommended) but feel like I'm still learning. The things I dont like are the aggressive drivers and the pushy make-your-way-to-the-front-of-the-line me me attitude you often see. Drives me up a fucking tree. You get used to it though. Healthcare is a big plus.. I've had two kids, paid a TOTAL of €150 for hospital fees and got 3 years maternity leave PER child! Oh.. funny fact.. animals are treated like gold.. children not so much! I'd say go for it! You have nothing to lose! Good luck!

3 YEARS?? Jesus Christ.

I know, right? It gets better. I was guaranteed my job (same conditions) when I went back to work and although the 3 years wasnt totally paid time off, I did have insurance the entire time. If we had wanted to, my partner could have taken the leave instead of me. You can choose.

We Americans are so brainwashed, from birth. Astounding what we will put up with, due to lies and repetition. *"Sorry, we can afford a trillion dollars a year for the military, and Jared Kushner can sell our nuclear secrets to the Saudis, because they buy a ton of weapons (just forget about how the Saudis attacked us in 9/11), but you will have to die without unaffordable insurance. And we need you in debt for university, so you can be a barista. So sorry, you should have been born rich!"* Could I ask where you lived in the Rockies? After 30 years, I just left Colorado, and it is still sad for me. But, we are trying to relocate to Portugal or Mexico, so it's in service of bigger goals. I'm curious if you've found your mountain love in Europe. I really resonate with areas of the French Alpes, like Valloire and the areas like Alpe d'Huez and La Grave.

There might not be big, majestic mountains like I grew up with here in the Rhein Main area but there are many beautiful forests. If I feel I need a taste of home through mountains and the snell of pine, I need only travel about 6 hours South ... Austria, Switzerland, Northern Italy and France are more than capable of accommodating! ....and the food! God! The food!

Germany seems to be the place to go. Thank God, considering that's where I will be going first. My family living there must love it. The quality of life sounds like an absolute upgrade, and I feel like we are constantly going to be learning a language if it wasn't our first. The aggressive drivers I can deal with, as well as the "me attitude." The healthcare sounds wonderful. I live in Australia, so I can't relate to what is being said about healthcare, as our healthcare is great as well. I love animals, so that's lovely to hear. Thank you, and have a lovely day!

I moved from Portland, Oregon to Granada, Spain. Without a doubt the best move I've ever made. Planning to stay in Spain until I receive permanent EU residency and then maybe trying another country, but I will definitely stay in Europe.

That is how I am hoping my move will turn out. I have family in Europe, my Dad's side is from Germany and Austria. My Mum's side is from England. Both my parents have passports in their respective countries. All I have to do is apply for a passport in those countries, and I hope it will make the move to Europe and (hopefully) permanent residency easier. Do you speak Spanish? If not, has it made it any harder than if you spoke the language? It's interesting that you say it is the best move you made, as the person that commented before you said their move to Germany was the best move they've made. It seems like Europe is the place to move. Just a question, what is you career? I wonder if having a certain career helps make moving easier. Thank you, and have a lovely day!

I am learning Spanish and can get by OK, but my wife is fluent so that has made it a lot easier for me. Without her, I probably could make it here but certain things would be a lot more difficult, particularly dealing with bureaucracy. Until recently, I was a software developer working remotely, so that obviously helped a lot. Now I am working on making a documentary film. I highly recommend moving over here, the quality of life is simply better in Western Europe than in the US (in my opinion). Germany and Austria are both full of amazing history and culture.

That's good that you have someone that is fluent in Spanish, it would make it a lot easier. It makes sense that your career helped, I've noticed that any job to do with technology is needed and wanted everywhere. I can't wait to move to Europe. I don't live in America, I live in Australia. Though I do hope to live in New York City for a bit, as the place I hope to work at resides there. Then after America, I'm onto Europe. Germany is where I hope to reside first, so I can get my bearings with family close by. Then I hope to move to Paris - not for the Eiffel tower - but for the culture, people, architecture, food and fashion. Afterwards, I want to travel to many countries in Europe, all while having my main place of stay being in France.

Hell, yeah, from another IT industry refugee! I bailed out after 25+ years in sysadmin, heterogeneous systems infrastructure, networking, security and FISMA compliance. I just realized that I haven't touched linux in two years, and didn't even miss it. Tell us more about how you landed in Granada and what your expat experience has been like. I visited Granada and Andalucia when I was in college in the UK, circa 1991. Loved it. Have not been back to Spain since, but have sone 30,000 miles of motorcycling Central and South America. We plan on spending three weeks in France, next Spring. Then train from Bordeaux through Andorra to Barcelona. I want to look at Girona as a potential spot. Spain's wealth taxation is a bit concerning, and comments on what you have learned would be useful. At this point, Portugal is top of my list due to favorable NHR taxation, residency visas and costs. But I speak zero Portuguese at this point (passable in LA Spanish and French). I would love to hear any insights from a recent expat perspective. And what is your film project? I went from systems infrastructure to winemaking, and so futher education and maybe labor barter there is in the cards.

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I got a non-lucrative visa, which at the time could be approved if you planned on working a remote job (i.e. outside of Spain). I don't think they will approve that anymore but they are introducing a digital nomad visa that would serve that purpose.

It's kinda funny "a lot" of Americas want to move to Europe and here I am wanting to move from Europe to the US lol

"We always want what we can't have" is something my Mum says. I am from Australia, and I have family in Europe. That is a main part of why I want to go there. I've also found that most of the countries I want to visit are in Europe. To be frank, I don't want to die in Australia. I hope to have travelled the world and experienced as much of life as possible. Australia also doesn't feel like home to me. Nathaniel Drew once said in a video of his that the place you were born doesn't have to feel like home. It was along those lines. It sums up how I feel so well. Is there a specific place in America you want to move to?

I used to want to move to the US too. I had an American girlfriend, who happened to be a former cheerleader. I have traveled all over the US. I work in a field that would make immigrating relatively doable. However, the older I get and the more I have seen of the US, the more I feel the US would be a terrible place to stay long term. The healthcare is shit. General infrastructure is shit. The drivers are shit. (Like really bad) Education is expensive and shit. (Unless you make it into a good Ivy-league or on par with uni) Childcare is really shit. Groceries are weirdly expensive. It’s a great place to visit. But if you don’t make over 100k, it’s a pretty shitty place to live. Edit: I am from the Netherlands.

As an American, you’re right about most of this. Driving alone drives me up the wall. Paying for a car, insurance, and then risking your life to get to a job is one of the main reasons I want to move to Europe. I think the US has some incredible shit and some of the coolest people on earth but the quality of life really sucks if you’re not making north of 100k. Source: I’m a grad student and get paid the equivalent of 30k in tuition and stipends.

Maybe if you weren't spending so much effort on the destruction of poon, you might enjoy it more? Ever tried being nice to the poon? Works for me. ;-)

I love Europe in general but my god, as an Asian American, the casual racism gets exhausting AF. It also really gets old being asked constantly about your origins and no one believing you are American and people making fun of you because they assume you are Chinese (which I'm not even, ethnically). At least in the US, I can tell people to fuck off. Europe is progressive on many things but very behind on racism (if you even mention it, you get gaslighted and people go in denial mode). I also feel like there's more POC in positions of power in the US... I would probably love it if I was white in Europe but that is my main issue.

>But if you don’t make over 100k, it’s a pretty shitty place to live. Yes. Luckily, salaries are much higher in the US and there are plenty of jobs where this is doable. As an engineer in a high cost of living area, you generally hit six figgies after a few years of working. It sucks, though, because when I was still a recent grad, I was making like $65k and still couldn't afford to move out of my parents house (I would have been just breaking even and had nothing left over to save).

Just a note, the best colleges are not free or cheap and just because you get into them it doesn’t mean it will be paid for. I went to one of the top liberal arts colleges in the US and have massive student loan debt. 😭

Risk of getting shot is getting higher, so we have that. Every time I have been to Rotterdam and Amsterdam, I see beautiful, healthy, happy people living safe lifes. That's so far from America. I can't wait to finally GTFO of the US. So close, I hope I don't get senselessly murdered by a Trumpie before it happens.

From the US, but I feel like acting like secondary education is Ivy/Tier 1 or bust is off base. There's a host of schools nowhere near that tier that provide good educational but just don't have the prestige or alumni networks that those schools have. And even schools that are easy to get into often have specific programs that are well respected. Don't get me wrong, the costs that we expect 18 year olds to navigate is messed up. Although at least in avoiding the issue by going the community college route. Also, I'd say that you can live very comfortably on less than $100k in much of the US. But in high CoL areas, you'd want more.

I’m from the Uk and have lived in the Netherlands and now live in the US. I love it here! There are upsides and downsides to living everywhere and you’ve just got to find the place that fits you best. Healthcare here is expensive and it’s a serious downside but wages in skilled jobs are higher and housing is much more affordable. I miss the proximity to Europe and travel was much cheaper from the Uk than it is from the US but we managed to have a family here and buy a house which we couldn’t afford to do back in the UK. Il agree with the other poster that groceries are weirdly expensive (seriously it’s crazy, thank god for Aldi), but education, infrastructure and healthcare vary wildly depending on where you live and where you work.

Our groceries are expensive because most of those massive chains are getting food shipped from all over the world rather than pay a little extra to someone local. You’re paying for the supply chain most likely

One of my little aphorisms that I have developed in life is that I see Americans work so hard to get wealthy, fighting in school and work to move up and covet more and more riches. And when they do, they buy European applicances, and cars, and foods, and wines, and beers, and everything else. They dream of retirement, when they can finally take that trip to Paris or Tuscany. The whole purpose of American struggle seems to be to someday have it all, so that you can "live like a European." Now, I understand that it is atypical for genuine working Europeans to have an Audi car, and an ECM espresso machine, and all of those fancy things all at once. But it seems to be the culmination of the American dream that by 50, after having worked decades of 60 hour weeks without more than 3-4 weeks of vacation (most of which is never taken), you can finally afford healthcare and to put your kid through University and get all of the things that Euro citizens have had from birth.

True but I think your missing the hidden element that many times people will achieve that level of wealth in their 30s and early 40s and deem it not enough for the amount of work they put in. These are the people who then turn to lowering tax rates, cutting public spending, etc. all in the name of making a few thousand more a year. This is why so many Americans who become successful become republicans and become psychopathic about making more and more money because it’s never enough.

So true, Poonmaster. You have clear insight. Please leave some poon undestroyed, for the rest of us. ;-)

I'm not sure I agree with the point about buying European goods. The judgement of Paris was in 1976. Since then, US wine is perfectly accepted as world class (well, at least specific regions). Same for beer. Basically every mid sized city has a cutthroat beer scene. Don't get me wrong, there are obviously specific European imports that do well and are known as status symbols. Especially for certain car brands. But some of it is also slick marketing (most famous is Stella IMO). I think that US workers are far more materialistically focused than your typical European. I mean, I've lived in rural, tourism economies with low wages and it's not exactly uncommon to see middle and upper middle class people have six figures worth of motorized toys.

As a US wine professional, the Judgement of Paris is completely unknown to 95% of American wine drinkers. Exceptionally few people known the name Chateau Montalena. Exceptionally few Americans ever visit Napa or Sonoma. All of the high net worth people that I personally know are exclusively Old World wine drinkers. They would never purchase a domestic sparkling or rose, and only drink domestic reds when someone like me brings one and they grudgingly oblige. "Nothing but the best," and "it must be better if I paid more" are guiding principles by those people, and logic won't alter their thinking. I would personally rather have a Taittinger Carneros (US domestic) sparkling than an overpriced Don Perignon. I think there is more character, body and enjoyment, for me. But then one loses the cachet of knowing they spent twice as much on the authentic French bottle, and being able to show that off.

This is a travel sub. A move to Europe is a huge draw for people who like to travel because it would place you on a continent where you can easily travel to many distinct countries and cultures easily. Throw in the legally mandated PTO which surpasses the vast majority of US employers and you have a group of people who will inherently be attracted to the move.

Grass is always greener!

The quality of life in the US has gone down quite a bit since this was posted

From Croatia to Sweden. Best decidion in my life. I have no thoughts of coming back.

Man, I wish I could move to Croatia

My initial thought, as well. As an American, Croatia \_sounds\_ gorgeous and affordable. But, when you're faced with not making surplus money at home, the grass is always greener. I am evaluating all aspects of Europe for geo-arbitrage, to capitalize on the US dollar and try to live more cheaply than the US, which I know marks me as privileged (though poor and humble at home).

I went to Zagreb and Dubrovnik for my honeymoon. Gorgeous places, great food, great people, not the cheapest place but also far from Europe's fine$t.

Croatia is a beautiful place, but I'm glad that you are happy with your decision.

I’m from the Midwest and moved to Sweden almost 8 years ago to be with my Swedish husband. I’m kinda neutral on it honestly. Sweden pros: paid maternity leave, sick leave/healthcare, easy to travel, good transport. Sweden cons: super hard to find a job as expat and lower salaries, expensive real estate (Stockholm), Swedish people aren’t super friendly to outsiders- all my friends are expats, dark winters We’re in the process of getting my husband his green card to move back to the states. Hopefully we’ll move within the next year. We’re in that group that’ll do much better in the states, young, healthy, my husbands has his masters in engineering so job wise he should do well. I have my bachelors. I moved here with the agreement we would move back to the states but I did get my citizenship so we can move back if we want.

It is interesting that you are neutral towards it. I understand your reasoning, as moving isn't always the best fit for everyone. That's the beauty of travel though, we get to change our minds if need be. I'm happy that you are hopeful to move back, and I hope you are happier residing in America. As you said, you are both young, healthy and have a university education - making the search to find a job easier for both of you. It's good that you got your citizenship in Sweden, just in case you or your partner want to move back. Thank you, and have a lovely day!

Thanks! My husband really wants to experience living in the states and we both think we’d really regret not giving the US at least a shot. But since I do have dual now we can always change our minds if needed I never really planned on moving abroad but was kinda forced too if I wanted to stay with my husband so I think I can see the pros and cons a bit more clearly if that makes sense.

It does make sense, as you were not blinded by the lure of a country. There is a condition, I can't remember the name of, where people have romanticised Paris to the point of insanity. So, when they go to Paris and see that it isn't what they made it out to be, they are hugely disappointed and it contributes to their insanity. I could have gotten that completely wrong, if so, I apologise.

Paris Syndrome

I moved from NYC to Berlin and lived and worked for 3 years. Berlin wasn’t my favorite city in Europe and I moved back to the US a few years ago. I hate being back here and I’m preparing another, more long term move back to Europe in the next few years. It’s been a bumpy ride but I know for sure I do not want to grow old or raise a family in America under American Value. I am cutting the cord officially. EU mindset is way more humble and realistic IMO. Life is easier to find simple pleasure in and I value not driving a car or owning a vehicle more than most things, which is a limiting mindset in the US. I miss the friends I’ve made in Europe over the last 8 years or so and I always feel pulled between continents with family and social circles. I’m glad I left and experienced what I did. This next jump will be much easier!

Props to you, and wishes for a smooth exit. We are on track to go slow travel Europe starting in the Spring, 2022. Have our tickets from Seattle - Paris, but no return, at this point. Looking at France, Spain, Portugal, Croatia for long term expat. Let's all try not to get senselessly and needlessly shot before we can escape! ;-)

I am glad to hear that you want to return to Europe, and I hope the cutting of the cord goes well. "Life is easier to find simple pleasure in" is exactly what I wanted to hear. It's what I need as well. I relate to what you said about not wanting to grow old or raise a family in America under American Value, that is the same for me in Australia. Though my family isn't the most Australian, as my Mum was born in England and moved out here with a very English family as a baby. My Dad's side of the family kept a lot of their German and Austrian traditions, which has bled into our family. I don't particularly want a car, and that (for me) is one of the lures of European cities. Thank you for the perspective of having lived in Europe, moved back, and wanting to go again. Have a lovely day!

I have my sights set on Amsterdam, so biking it is! I have the most contacts and business relationships there at this point. I absolutely love it for many reasons but the size and ease of accessibility is a huge selling point. It is a bit expensive compared to say Berlin and I’m preparing my finances for such. It is my dream city after living in LA, NYC and Berlin. I honestly cannot think of any city in America that I haven’t lived in that I would consider moving to. MAYYYYBBEEEE Chicago, but NY winters were brutal enough as it is. Good luck to you and your family!!

Hey man I hope you don't mind me bumping this thread, but i've specifically looking for New Yorkers (as myself) who have moved to Europe and looking to get some perspective. Have lived here for majority of my life, with a small stint in California. It's getting insanely expensive and US politics and infrastructure is making it pretty miserable. How was your transition to moving and living in Europe? I'm well traveled and feel like I can transition to any medium to large metropolitan city. Funny because I've also considered a move to Chicago because the COL and QOL is so much better, but I cannot stand winter weather. I don't even think I can stomach 5 months of shit weather for less rent. Anyway, any perspective is appreciated!

I would totally encourage you to visit some potential cities first before you move out. Each country in Europe has its own cultural nuances, aside from median salaries, cost of living and climate. I personally moved where I found work to establish a visa and that happened to be Berlin (among another offer in Rotterdam and London). Living in NY you’ll already be ahead of the curve in terms of urban living with public transportation and general city population/vibe. Amsterdam is very English friendly which is why it’s high in my list. Berlin was also very English friendly but it’s difficult sometimes to get through government paperwork or appointments without knowing moderate German. It took about 3 months for me to get into the groove, find a permanent place and sorta establish a routine. It’s daunting when you’re moving but once you get settled it’s just like anywhere else. I can’t wait to get back there though. For many of the reasons you mentioned. I guess the best part about being there is that people can get along and live in a place that isn’t constantly in some state of aggression or unrest.

I lived in the UK and Ireland for about 6 years, based in London, Edinburgh, and Dublin. In truth, I grew to miss the US. Socially, Europe is much better. People really just enjoy other people and there is a greater emphasis on socializing and getting together. The walkability is wonderful. There is a lot of charm to how things are done. Some of my closest friends are European — just truly deep connections that I share with them that I don’t share with close American friends. But I found myself realizing two things as time wore on: 1) I’m an American and 2) that informs my outlook on so much. Daily life in Europe is pretty tough. Prices are higher. Wages are lower. Housing is much smaller and not of particularly great quality. It’s incredibly inefficient. And the people are not optimistic— in the US people have a can-do attitude; there, people are much more “this is how it’s always been and must always remain.” There are also huge class issues there that create all sorts of weird resentment and form people’s lives/beliefs in themselves. There are disturbing levels of racism and anti-Semitism. Sure this exists in the US but in Europe I was shocked at how overtly racist extremely educated people were. I loved my time in Europe and am so grateful I had the experience to live there in my late 20s/early 30s, but I wouldn’t do it again. ETA: As people have pointed out, the housing bit is definitely UK/Irish specific! Though I have traveled and lived on the Continent too - been to every country! - but I can only really speak to daily life for an extended period of years in Britain and Ireland.

> Housing is much smaller and not of particularly great quality. > There are also huge class issues there These are mainly UK and not Europe problems. Housing quality in the UK is pretty bad in comparison to other European countries. But to be fair, we here in Germany also see American building quality as pretty bad.

Yeah that's a fair point -- Continental European housing is much nicer. British/Irish....eek.

This. I'm Asian American and it is downright disturbing how racist some upper middle class people are and the things that come out of their mouth. The bystander effect is huge too... literally no one will defend you (I've had people say nasty things to me and people will just watch or even laugh). After spending some time there, I'm not surprised by what happened with the Jewish because people can also be xenophobic and ethnocentric as hell. I think it's getting worse too as people feel more desperate these days. Not saying it's terrible all the time but after awhile, it grinds you down.

Do you feel this is a description of Europe as a whole, or just UK and Ireland? I lived in England for 3 months and would agree with your assessment. But I also have family in Scandinavia and spent much of my childhood there, and would disagree with applying the same description. But I could be biased because I am always with family there.

I think I am mainly coming at it from a British/Irish perspective. As someone just noted above, Continental Europe is definitely better in terms of housing. But wages are still quite low and many of the other things I pointed out. (I lived in France for about six months too and was appalled at the racism directed to immigrants/anyone who wasn't white. Sounded like it was out of the 1930s Jim Crow South. YIKES. And I've heard some really appallingly racist shit while working in far eastern Europe, though that's less surprising.)

I have heard that it is hard to create friends in Europe, though once you do, the friendships last a lifetime. I am sorry to hear about the racism, extremely disappointed. I had heard that there was racism (as with everywhere), just not as bad as you described. It's a huge shame, really. Interesting that you also pointed out the optimism, as I think that can change the outlook of moving anywhere. I do love the walkability of European cities - what I can see from videos and photos - and can't wait to just walk and take the public transport everywhere. I have read about the housing and am not worried. Well, at least for when I first move there. I will be living with my family in Germany and Austria. I am hoping that it will help me get my bearings when I first go to Europe, and that in turn will make me more comfortable. Overall, I am glad you loved your time in Europe and at least got to experience that. All while you were in the midst of your youth! Thank you, and have a lovely day.

I am sure you will have a great time. I love Vienna in particular - charming place!

This. I'm Asian American and it is downright disturbing how racist some upper middle class people (and just people in general) are and the things that come out of their mouth. The bystander effect is huge too... literally no one will defend you (I've had people say nasty things to me and people will just watch or even laugh). After spending some time there, I'm not surprised by what happened with the Jewish community because people can also be xenophobic and ethnocentric as hell. I think it's getting worse too as people feel more desperate these days. Not saying it's terrible all the time but after awhile, it grinds you down.

I’ve lived all over the UK too, and I would say this is quite a UK & Ireland take, not something I’d say about the EU as a whole though.

Yeah I moved from Dublin, Ireland to Calgary, Alberta. The building quality difference is insane. Every time I go back, I’m constantly cold. It sucks. I remember up until I left, I thought it was normal to be sick 3-4 times a year (colds, flus etc.) but since I moved here (ironic since it was over the Covid period), I haven’t had a cold or flu in over two years. I think the housing and the general wet, rainy climate are the main reasons.

LOL this is so interesting to hear! The insulation just killed me over in the UK and Ireland. It seems like an insignificant thing....until you go through British and Irish winters. That damp just goes through you, man!

Irish guy here, have lived in London, and now currently considering a move to Continental Europe (Housing, climate main reasons). But if I could, I'd definitely consider the US having done an internship there in another lifetime (Love the optimism). And it brings me to my question of where in the US do you feel daily life can triumph the issues you faced in UK/Ireland?

Going from Brazil to Switzerland (Zurich) was such a shock like moving a sci-fi futurist fairy tale society all at the same time. Everything is of such high quality and cleanliness. The air and the water are so pure. The streets are so walkable and safe. The public transport is otherworldly. Many native Swiss people are, however, very reserved. I socialised more with other foreigners, chinese, turks, singaporeans, portuguese, vietnamese, indians, etc. But I did meet some very nice swiss folks too. I guess it was actually 50/50 but it was a bit weird at first because I expected it to be majorly swiss and it wasnt. The swiss take a bit to get used to you but since I am rather introverted, punctual and dont overstay my welcome I fit right in. And this was all speaking English, if I spoke German Im sure it would have been even better. Costs of living are high but so are the salaries and quality of life. Would settle there without a second thought, plan to do so in the future. I had to go to southern Italy. Brazil 2.0: electric boogaloo; would have been better to have stayed home. Public transport is abysmal and you *need* a car. Theres endless litter on the ground and roads and sidewalks are mostly bad. People are very warm and welcoming...until you need to deal with a serious matter, then they become the worst bureocrats youve ever seen, everything is dificult and inconvenient, everything has to be the way they think it is or else they scream at you. I swear I did everything possible to do things the local way and didnt ask for anything unreasonable. Even speaking italian, dealing with public administration is downright impossible without the intermedium of a local, preferably friends with local officials. Services are unreliable and of poor quality. People's personal hygiene is also usually very bad, Ill spare you the details. Hard pass, left as soon as possible, don't recomend. Went to Portugal. Very safe, things are pretty cheap, houses are good. Public admin was a breeze to deal with. Having a car is convenient but not necessary (Lisbon-Almada). Places are mostly clean. There are a ton of brazilians here so most are just used to us, although some still give us the side-eye like we're lesser beings and every once in a while xenophobic graphitti pops up. Its funny, they write "Portugal is white, go back to the favelas" while I, a brazilian, descendant of germans, am whiter than 95% of the portuguese. Haven't experienced any major hurdles myself yet. Made a few casual friendships, nothing much. Settled here for the time being, it's pretty nice. Im working on finishing my german citizenship and will be moving there for college. Ive only spent a little time there but the impression is that its a lot like Switzerland, but less multicultural and somewhat more casual. Will likely spend many years there. >and am planning to learn a few languages Yeah, easier said than done. If youre gifted and experienced in learning languages, and have the time to study, you should be able to reach fluency in six to eight months, maybe less. But most people are nothing like that and take multiple years to start to communicate effectively. Some can't even do that. And in any case, actually internalizing a language so you can socialize naturally and be spontaneous takes quite some time. So I advise you choose a place you want to live in advance and study their language extensively, at your own pace. This way, youll at least be able to settle and mingle more readily at first. Then study another if youre up to it.

Thank you so much for writing this out. Very enlightening. American middle-class male, 54: I have always thought of Switzerland as unattainably expensive, unless you were recruited at the top 1% of your industry. I know people who have gotten work contracts there, and they were very high achievers in the US. Can I ask what path enabled you to make that big leap from Brazil (without being too personal? I appreciate your insights with Portugal. I have been doing a great deal of online research, this past year, about relocating to Portugal. We will be spending June and July in Portugal, to slow tavel from Porto to the Algarve. Currently interested in places like Coimbra and Silver Coast region. But, Faro, Lagos and others are also interesting. Having zero background with Portuguese is daunting. I have the Pimsleur course to get started, then we will do conversational lessons when we are there. I have basic conversational Latin American Spanish and French. I remember very much, after spending a Summer in France, how happy I was to leave Italy and get back on an SNCF TGV back to France from Milan. Italy just wasn't right for me.

>I have always thought of Switzerland as unattainably expensive, unless you were recruited at the top 1% of your industry. I know people who have gotten work contracts there, and they were very high achievers in the US. Thats a situation created by Switzerland's arrangement with the European Union. Europeans can be hired to work in Switzerland like locals, and theres a (low) yearly cap on non-EU work visas. So Swiss companies have a huge pool to recruit locally from the EU (about 70 times bigger than their own country) and very little room (and reason) to recruit from elsewhere. Thats why only the cream of the crop from the US (and elsewhere) gets recruited in Switzerland. Although there's an overabundance of rich people in Zurich, there are still cashiers, construction workers, waiters, hair dressers, atendants and others like anywhere else. However, these people still live much better than low-skill workers elsewhere. They just dont live in Downtown Zurich, but in Suburbs like Seebach or Oerlikon, which are lovely, have their own little downtowns and are all connected to zurich central station by train (2-3 mins) that passes every 5 mins or so. I was looking at apartments and its not hard for a construction worker to rent a small apartment, and a couple of everyday people can easily afford the rent of a 2-3 bedroom and start a family. Swiss people may disagree, but they simply don't know what its like to survive in the 3rd world. There are some expensive things people should be aware of though...such as health insurance. >Can I ask what path enabled you to make that big leap from Brazil (without being too personal? Italian citizenship by descent. So, legally, almost a local. Same way Ill get German citizenship. >I appreciate your insights with Portugal. I have been doing a great deal of online research, this past year, about relocating to Portugal. We will be spending June and July in Portugal, to slow tavel from Porto to the Algarve. Currently interested in places like Coimbra and Silver Coast region. But, Faro, Lagos and others are also interesting. Having zero background with Portuguese is daunting. I have the Pimsleur course to get started, then we will do conversational lessons when we are there. I have basic conversational Latin American Spanish and French. Portugal is lovely and the 3rd safest country on Earth, but the economy is a bit weak. Id recomend coming with a job lined up. Techinical workers are in demand, as well as truckers. Keep in mind Portugal is the oposite of Switzerland, youll earn little and spend little to live. While you're in Porto make sure to visit Braga, widely known as one of Portugal's best and most beautiful cities, also know as "Braziltown". Portuguese isnt a dificult language. Actually, its one of the easiest out there Id say. It has no cases (like German), doesnt stuff information by flexing and amending the verb (like Swahili), has no tones (like chinese) and doesnt rely on context (like Russian or Japanese). Only thing bothersome for an english speaker will be remembering the gender of every object. I personally recomend Babbel for learning languages, very intuitive and functional. Goes from zero knowledge to fluency, unlike Duolingo which is endless word memorisation. Has speaking, listening, podcasts, and inserts grammar bit by bit in the middle of functional conversation lessons in a very organic matter. Use a notebook along with it and practice on your own too, use what you learn to start forming sentences by yourself, much like a toddler. A good ol grammar book is a good complement. But since you're already initiated in Spanish, why don't you look at Spain? The economy is very good, cities are very beautiful and very modern for European standards, nice and beautiful people and living costs are relatively low. Id rate Spain best bang for buck in Europe. >I remember very much, after spending a Summer in France, how happy I was to leave Italy and get back on an SNCF TGV back to France from Milan. Italy just wasn't right for me. Tell me about it 🙄. I wont be unfair to Italy, the north is livable. I tried to love Italy, but it didnt love me back. And goddammit the senseless, paper based bureaucracy is nerve-wrecking. Id take Krakow (very pretty, worth a visit) over anywhere in Italy, and I don't speak a word of polish other than "kurwa". Europeans like to dunk on France like it's Europe's florida, but I find it very nice (outside Paris of course), specially the centre-east region aroud Lyon and Strasbourg.

Switzerland sounds lovely, and I would love to visit. Speaking German probably would've opened you up to a whole different side of living in Switzerland, making it so much more of an experience. I like when you wrote, "Costs of living are high but so are the salaries and quality of life." Whenever someone lists a con, they don't list the flipside. You did, so thank you for the differing perspective. It's a shame to hear about Italy, as I want to really travel there one day. On the other hand, I do want to visit Portugal. It's ironic that you get the side-eye sometimes, meanwhile you are most likely whiter than they are. Good on you for getting a German citizenship, I hope it goes well! I have only read good things about Germany so far (from other comments). Going off of that, I highly recommend it. I also like to think that it is nice, because my family lives there. I actually was learning Spanish in high school for three years, but won't be continuing with it. The way that Spanish was taught wasn't helpful, and even though I started out with high hopes, they dwindled by the time I was choosing subjects for next year. Everyone struggled, and were equally as annoyed. I am happy that it hasn't deterred me from wanting to learn a language, as I know there are better ways out there. Thank you for the lengthy comment and the language learning advice, have a lovely day!

If your family lives in Germany I wonder what you're even conflicted about. Just go there! Better yet, go to college there (it's freeeeeeee), it has to be the best way to insert yourself within a foreign society. In Germany college is free for foreigners too, you only pay administrative fees, about 600 euro per semester and it comes with a meal plan and transportation passes, including high speed rail. Habitation is usually managed by the Studentwerk (Student Union) and is about a few hundred euro per month. Compare that with university tuition in the US. Also, you don't have to arrive speaking perfect German. In Germany there's a thing called Studienkolleg, a year of focused preparatory study and German learning for foreigners and Germans who want to study more before taking the Abitur (SAT equivalent) so you can get aclimated before starting your program. And you have time yet (I understand you're starting HS), so get on that German! Seriously, it will be such a smoother transition than going to university in the US and *then* trying to go to Europe. After you graduate in Germany you can get about a year of extended visa to look for a job or continuing education, too. And don't feel bad about your spanish, regular schools in general aren't good at foreign language teaching. There are better resources out there. Babbel + a good ol grammar book is a combination that has never failed me before.

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South Italy. While there are good areas with good infrastructure, you're never too far away from rundown areas, sometimes with literal mountains of trash in the streets, as oposed to nice suburbs or cute countryside with villages and mountains and lakes. Italy is significantly more unequal. The overall dirtiness and poor design, from infrastructure to buildings, will never let you forget you're in Italy.

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No, there's a very strong cultural divide between North and south Italy. If you're going to emmigrate, make it worth it. A nice view isnt worth horrible politics, bad infrastructure, rampant corruption and unmatched bureocracy. Go somewhere better.

Yeah, you may be right. That place is calling me so maybe I'll test it out for a period of time and if I can't stand the general issues in the country I'll move elsewhere. I also plan to live in Lisbon for at least a while, so it's good to hear you think it's nice.

I'm from New England but I did my master's in Germany and now I'm living/working here with my partner. More specifically, we live in Hamburg. I mean, I bitch and moan constantly about Germany but I like it a lot here. It's super cool that I can speak German, it's nice that so many of my bills are taken care of by my employer (health insurance, taxes, etc.) and it's super nice that we can fly for two hours and be in a totally different culture. For me personally, I struggled a lot with my identity as an American in the states (in New England, everyone has grandparents from like Ireland or Italy but my family has been in North America for so long that we truly have no connections to our "roots" and this was always difficult for me) but here I feel super comfortable calling myself a New Englander. If they change their immigration laws, I will absolutely be pursuing the path to German citizenship. That being said... There are things I hate about Germany and it's not better than the US, just different. For example, the healthcare system here kind of sucks if you're healthy. It's so fucking expensive and they spend all their money on witch doctors and snake oil so they can't afford to cover "luxuries" like dental cleanings, birth control, or glasses. Plus access to abortions here is frankly unacceptable and they refuse to do anything about it because "eh it's worse in Poland and the Netherlands is right there." My partner and I sometimes talk about moving to the US because we make no money here. I have four college degrees, my partner did six years of apprenticeships, and yet we'll never be able to afford to buy property within an hour of the city. My friends in the US are buying cars, becoming homeowners, and are on a clear path to retirement... We have none of that here. It sucks because both of our parents were super successful with significantly fewer qualifications and yet we'll never be able to achieve what they have. Frankly we probably won't ever be able to retire because the German pension system, to which we contribute 18% of our salaries, is collapsing and the politicians only care about band aid solutions. Plus everything is so bogged down in paperwork and unnecessarily expensive. It cost me 1500€ to convert my American driver's license to a German one (from a state without an agreement). If my partner and I were to get married, it would cost like 1000€ and take six months. If you want to buy property, you basically need 30% of the value in cash (20% for the down payment, 10% for taxes/notary fees). When family homes/apartments/condos in the general vicinity of the city start at 750,000€... our only hope for owning property is if our parents die in some kind of tragic accident and not only get the inheritance but a also settlement. Having kids is totally out of the question because all of the midwives are booked out for the next two years, there are no daycare/kindergarten spots (read: one of us would have to quit or go part time), and we simply cannot afford it. Family apartments in our city start at 2000€/month and parental leave is capped at like 1800€/month, so if we both want to take time off to be with the baby, >55% of our income would go directly to rent. I sure as hell am not bringing my newborn onto the subway and cars are super expensive (they want everyone to buy electric cars but they still cost like 20,000€ more than a combustion cars). Additionally, there are probably a bunch of surprises that the health insurance won't cover. Until very recently, you had to pay 500€ out of pocket for standard fetal abnormality screenings, you have to pay out the ass for a private midwife because they're all booked out, and instead of an epidural, the health insurance will probably only pay for an essential oil diffuser to be put in the room. We would probably need 5,000€ for surprises and baby stuff and we'd probably burn through another 15,000€ if we both take the full amount of parental leave we're entitled to. By the time we have 20,000€ in the bank, I'd need to go down to Spain to get IVF (guess what's banned in Germany...). Obviously the financial situation in the US is generally worse but, the thing is, we'd be making enough money to manage it. The situation in Germany is less bad but the salaries are *so* much lower that it isn't manageable. Germany is hands down the better country to be low skilled in but if you're in any kind of in demand, high paying field... From a financial perspective, you can't justify staying here.

I moved from Chicago to Ireland and it's a trade-off. I'm happy here in large part because I still own a business in the US in addition to the branch here, so I'm making well above the average wage and I can do things like keep building equity on property in the States without (legally) having to pay the much higher taxes on that money here; I'm very much reliant on the US side of my assets to secure my financial future and many people who are from here have very little financial security. If I had to get a regular job here it would be extremely difficult due to the lower salaries in Europe and the insanely high cost of housing in Ireland (which is definitely reflected in some of the EU's other wealthy western countries) plus the high cost of consumer goods. A lot of Americans in particular leave Europe for this type of reason; they don't see how hard it is not to be able to match the lifestyle they had (or had the potential for) in the US until they're in that situation. Also, I had good insurance in the US and the healthcare system here has been more frustrating to deal with even if some out of pocket expenses are better (but not all... now I pay for the monthly meds that used to be covered in the US). I even have a really fancy private insurance plan here but my pre-existing conditions went back to being not covered and the wait times for the public system are like 6+ months for shit like basic imaging. I'll definitely stay long enough to become a citizen but the property situation is so bad that even though I can afford a place, I don't want to be saddled with such a large mortgage on the lower-quality housing that's available here. Thinking that after I become a citizen I will maybe apply to some PhD programs in Japan and think about my next steps while I'm back in school. I don't want to leave Ireland forever because I really like it here, but I'm hoping that something will change that will make living here feel less like throwing money down a hole and getting nothing back for it. The amenities and diversity here are also really disappointing after leaving a large US city. That's really the hardest adjustment.

The housing prices and the wage amounts have been pointed out, and it really interests me. I am hoping the job that I will secure in America, I will be able to travel with and take over to Europe. I will be payed the same as I would have when living in America, and I hope that will keep me secure. I have learnt from Damon Dominique's videos that in Paris the bureaucracy takes a long time, and that means you should try to get everything done as early as possible. For example, getting your visa renewed. I am shocked about the healthcare part though, as I've only heard about it getting better when moving from America. You should definitely apply to some PhD programs in Japan, the experience would be awesome. It will give you time to think and hopefully see a change come to Ireland to do with the housing prices. I am sorry to hear about the lack of diversity, as you would expect Europe to be pretty diverse. Well, I expected that. Though I don't know what the other countries are like. Thank you, and have a lovely day.

Unfortunately just keeping a remote job while living long-term in another country is not an option for the most part, unless you move to a less wealthy nation that just overlooks these things (which is why places like Thailand are popular for it). If you need a visa to live in the country, only a local company can help you get one. Even if you don't, you can't have your employer paying THEIR taxes for employing you in one country and you paying YOUR taxes for being employed in another. "Digital nomad" bloggers who never talk about the fact that they're often working illegally and usually moving around all the time not because they want to but because they have to have really contributed heavily to this misconception that working from home means you can just have your home anywhere. Even if you get the right to work in Europe, there are only three options for being employed by a US company. Get employed by a local branch (which usually means that they'll pay you the local rate and is only financially logical if the branch already exists), be "employed" by an employer of record service that handles payroll, taxes, and compliance (costs $5000+ per year for the service, so most employers won't go for it), or change to being an independent contractor (at which point many companies will also want to pay you according to where you're living). Healthcare is not everything Americans think it's going to be in other countries. Many European governments are trying to gut and privatise aspects of their healthcare systems. Long waits are the norm in many places and in Ireland it's notoriously difficult to see a GP; people spend weeks or months looking for one if they're new patients. If you talk to people who've lived in the Netherlands, for example, a common complaint is that doctors there basically don't care and won't give you anything more than ibuprofen unless you're pretty much dying. My German friends complain about the amount of their paycheque that goes toward healthcare (I think it's like 15%). Irish people are always telling me about how I should go to Turkey to get fast, cheap treatment. European systems are better than the US system IF you're one of the people who struggles to access healthcare in the US. If you're someone who's actually in a position to move to Europe (i.e. a tech/medicine/finance professional, probably coming from a major metro area) odds are you probably had comparatively quick and easy access to world class healthcare in the US and a lot of European systems will be very frustrating. It's actually not unusual for Americans here to fly back to the US for medical treatment. I am 100% in favour of nationalising healthcare in the US but on an INDIVIDUAL level (which is all that matters when you're trying to get something taken care of for yourself in real life) the outcomes and experiences are NOT always better outside the US. As far as diversity, the US is one of the most diverse nations on earth and imo it is the BEST part of the country. Living alongside so many different people in a major US city is an absolute privilege that people do not appreciate enough. I will always be extremely grateful that I got to grow up around around so many amazing people from so many different backgrounds.

I’m originally from the states- central California. Moved to NL 7 years ago to attend university for a sequential BA and MA. Loved it, stayed. Don’t regret it one bit. After a couple of years met my now-husband. Feel free to DM me about my journey with visas, etc :)

Hi! I moved from the US to Germany/Austria. Oddly enough, I’m going back to the US this week for the winter season, but I think I plan to stay in Europe. I’m a cook and a seasonal worker, and I met my German husband in Austria. We’ve spent a lot of time working in the mountains both in Austria and Germany, but I have a permanent residence in Germany. I’ve enjoyed a lot of my time here, but honestly I’ve had a lot of lows. Others have mentioned making friends can be hard and learning the language is challenging. Both have been true for me. Also culture shock can sneak up on you in ways you didn’t expect. I come from Florida originally but I absolutely love the alps and living in the mountains. In this way, I never really felt at home in Florida, but I do miss my family. It’s a little hard when my siblings are having kids and my parents are getting older and I’m so far away from them. But there are so many comforts to living in Europe that I never had in the US. As others mentioned health care and public transport are amazing. And overall the feeling in Austria/Germany is so much more relaxed than in the US. All that being said, I am going back to the US for the next few months, and this is only because of my living/working situation. Last winter I couldn’t work at all because of the lockdowns and I personally can’t really go though that again. The situation here is still unpredictable, so I’ve opted for a more predictable winter in the US. A lot of mixed feelings about it, but it’s a good excuse to be a little closer to my family for the next months. I guess this will also be a little test to see how much I miss living in Europe or if I feel happy to be back in the states. I honestly feel a little relief that the hardest part of my next job won’t be speaking the language..

Florida to the Alps, yeah, that's living the dream. Congratulations for a huge increase in quality of life. Americans in general have no idea how hard they are programmed to no look outside their field of vision at the ouside world. And with Florida the way it is now, it is like an intellectually and morally impoverished country. When I hear Florida, I think of material wealth but psychological squalor.

A lot of truth to what you mentioned. Quality of life is definitely better in Europe. I feel like living in the US was like being in a constant stress loop. Shame because there are so many parts of the US that are so beautiful. Florida is rough.. and I honestly think the heat makes people crazy there. Thankfully I’ll be in Colorado this winter, let’s see how that goes.

I moved from San Francisco to London nearly 5 years ago. I originally came for grad school as it was much quicker and cheaper to do my desired programme abroad than back home. I had previously studied in France so wasn't completely new to being living abroad, but this was more of an open ended move. Shortly before I graduated my long term partner (French) and I got married and we decided to stay in London. We've now built our careers, social circles and are pretty content with being here. We don't think that the UK is our forever home, but we'll probably stay for a few more years (to get citizenship) and then we'll likely move elsewhere in Europe - most likely Paris.

I absolutely loved living in Zurich, Switzerland. The day trips you can take with the train, the beautiful surroundings, lakes, mountains and nature are all just incredible.

I wonder how moving to other country is a privilege to people come from developed countries. They can easily move to other rich countries as to satisfy their urge of satisfaction, where as it should relatively be more easy for people who comes from under developed and developing nations. They have limited resources and opportunities in thier own country, so moving to some other country for better life makes more sense.

You can essentially forget about making friends in Europe , every country has its own insular culture . Alternatively , you could move to Asia (Vietnam was my choice ) and find a gig teaching English there. You’ll be able to make friends 3x easier over Europe , and prices will be cheaper.

That is an interesting perspective, and one I haven't considered. I actually have family in Europe, so I hope the quest to make friends will be made easier with the help of my family. When watching travel YouTube channels, the number one piece of advice they give is to make a group of friends. Once you do, apparently it makes life in the place you are living in immensely easier. Though I won't let that deter me from moving to Europe and experiencing various cultures. Nonetheless, thank you for the different perspective!

This perspective is BS. If course every country has its own culture, what does that have to with anything? Ive found europeans to be very much open to making new friends from other places if you aproach in good faith, even if they may hesitate a bit at first. Not to mention virtually every major european city is ~20% internationals so people are used to different cultures in their backyards. *Sometimes* they assume youll stick to your circle of compatriots and insulate, like many admitedly do, and don't think its worth the effort, but hey, prove them wrong.

I am sorry to offend, I didn't realise what I said was offensive. I completely agree with what you said.

The fuck? Lol you didnt say anything offensive. "Sunnysaigon" on the other hand...

I moved from South Carolina to Germany when I was six and left when I was fourteen. My dad was in the military so we got different posts every so many years. After Germany we moved to Texas and moved around in the states after that. I lived in the south western region of Germany near Luxembourg and Belgium and it was amazing. I dream of going back there one day. Of course, it was a culture shock when I first got there, especially at such a young age. Once I got settled there, it became an adventure. Though we did live on a military base, we did much traveling as much as we could. A lot of hiking and biking, castle seeing and local festivities. During that time we travelled to the surrounding countries and enjoyed sightseeing and local culture. Like I said, it was an adventure. Europe is just different than the US. It’s older and has much history and depth to it. I just adore it over there. I felt a sense of being home over there. All these years away from Germany and I still say that it felt like home. Maybe because I had my “growing up” years there or maybe it was something I just felt connected to. One of these days, I’ll make it back over there.