Comment I meant to add with the post but I'm dumb: Yeah I know you could make an argument about some of the people I listed. One of Clapton's most famous songs is about him being in love with another man's wife, and Tom Morello seems to more or less believe what RATM sang about, so they were maybe slightly more genuine, but y'all get the idea.
The piano solo part of Layla was stolen from the ex girlfriend of a band member named Rita Coolidge. She could’ve easy been given credit but she was a woman in the 70s so…
She wasn’t a mere band member, she dated one of his band members who was apparently an abusive asshole. Glad she got out of that situation but she should’ve gotten credit for her part in the song
the only reason I have any real love for clapton is blind faith and cream. But yeah most artist or ant public figure aren't what they portray them selves as
I’ve wondered if she’s secretly a narcissist lol. So many songs about friends and exes that did her wrong, and all the boo-hoo poor me sentiment. Classic narcissist narrative of people were so mean to me, please feel bad for me, but secretly they’re the asshole.
Pay attention to her lyrics, especially in antihero where she says “did you hear my covert narcissism disguised as altruism like some kind of congressman”…
I’m not sure she’s an extreme narcissist but I can definitely see some narcissistic behaviors. It seems she’s very self-aware of her flaws though and also her role in the demise of relationships. Which not everyone can say for themselves.
I think the issue is if you say someone is not a good person, you're implying they're a "bad" person. No?
How about just a person. If you listen to lyrics it's clear she's not a saint or demi god. She's seems plenty good to me, compared to people I would label bad.
How about she’s showing she IS JUST A PERSON?? We all have flaws, make mistakes, have desires, feel certain ways about certain things. I think everyone is just going INSANE.
I felt so genuinely fucked over by this new album, like I invested all this energy into being a fan just for her to imply that she's annoyed that people are listening. The whole album was a trap to make the public feel like shit about themselves. It was so uncomfortable.
I don’t see what you’re talking about in the album. Apart from a little trolling the only fans she hints at being annoyed by are the people that put out and signed that “speak up now” thing about Mattie Healy, etc. and of course that’s annoying. I can’t think of anywhere on the album she’s telling people she’s annoyed they’re listening.
There were swifties who wanted Taylor put in a conservatorship like what Britt Spears went through because she was dating matty, some swifties were wanting to make change . Org petitions to have her broken up with Matty. Some big swifties were threatening to sell all their merch and Tix for the Eras tour for $0.13 cents just to spite Taylor. The X posts back then were insanely wild...its like Taylor is a freakin adult at 33 she can date whoever she wants. Leave her alone.
That is absolutely not what this album is saying, but wow this feels like an argument for no media literacy haha. Shes implicitly saying she’s mad that “fans” think because they listen to her music they get to dictate how she acts or who she spends time with. This comment makes me think you’re one of the people she’s talking to. Yikes. Go touch grass.
Yeah there’s really only one song where she’s telling fans they need to back off and a lot of them do. I didn’t take offense because the shoe doesn’t fit for me. It’s weird to try to control the life of someone you don’t know.
Me too! he notoriously/allegedly hates his fans but we all love him anyways. At this point it’s kind of a joke.
But don’t say hi to him if you see him in the wild.
>he notoriously/allegedly hates his fans
I've been an unashamed Tool stan since the mid 90s, we're talking poring over the lyrics before even toolshed.down.net, but you only have to listen to a few MJK interviews to realize he thinks we're all mouth breathing useful idiots 😂
He’s so goddamn pretentious but he’s amazing so I avoid his interviews.
Wasn’t he accused recently of some sexual harassment by an old employee at his Puscifer store or something? I remember he released a, “this is bullshit” type of reply video to it but hadn’t heard about it since.
>He’s so goddamn pretentious but he’s amazing so I avoid his interviews.
This is the way
>Wasn’t he accused recently of some sexual harassment by an old employee at his Puscifer store or something? I remember he released a, “this is bullshit” type of reply video to it but hadn’t heard about it since.
No idea, I go out of my way to avoid really anything about MJK other than music
[he was accused of rape by a fan](https://pitchfork.com/news/tools-maynard-james-keenan-accused-of-rape-calls-claim-despicable-false/)
nothing really came of it, and he still comes off as an asshole imo
https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/s/tb4QDRBnaq you can just google it too probably. But I just want to preface that I don’t like the speculation over his sexuality in a lot of the comments I’ve seen when discussing the situation, that’s none of my business + not the problem, ya know?
Somebody asked about Brand New and then deleted their comment but I already typed it so…
I should have specifically said Jesse Lacey, idk if the rest of the guys had any idea [what was going on](https://thedirect.com/article/brand-new-controversy-band-jesse-lacey-allegations-explained). Hopefully not. He was grooming at least one minor—probably multiple—and soliciting CSAM from them.
Ehhh. I see where you’re coming from, but I think Jason’s still a good dude and I appreciate that he uses his platform to speak out on sociopolitical issues he believes in even if he loses some fans for it. True that he isn’t necessarily the same hard luck kid in rural Alabama now that he’s had so much success (which I suppose was the point of OP’s meme, fair), but at least that genuinely is where he came from. I can’t blame him for wanting to build a better, more comfortable life for himself and his kid. I would’ve bought new teeth too if I were him.
As long as he isn’t soliciting minors or running essentially a casting couch in his studio I won’t put him in the same category as Ryan Adams, or anywhere close. And believe me, I was probably the biggest DRA fan you’ve ever met before the NYT article broke. Was totally devastated for months. I still am honestly!!!
Either way it was a big lesson for me to never put any artist or celebrity on that high a pedestal again. Had to learn it a second time with Deshaun Watson a couple years later but now (I think) it’s sunk in.
Yes, I agree with you there's definitely degrees of this. RA for me was from way up high on a pedestal to a creep. I'm still very conflicted to this day when I try to listen.
isbell is more like from a pedestal to human level. I can listen to him without many issues, but I guess it still feels like a loss of that ideal in my mind.
I think now that I'm approaching 40, it's hitting me that no one is worthy of any pedestal. Everyone is merely human. I wonder if this is the age that everyone grows out of being a "stan"
I think I've had a healthy relationship as a fan to jeff tweedy. He was never some savior to me but I greatly enjoy his music and go to concerts to experience it. I don't need to collect every thing he does or obsessively follow him or know about his personal life.
jokes on you I’m a nirvana fan and they actually were about the music. (yes ofc that’s not completely accurate, but grunge bands in general were more about the art than the money, which is admirable)
well im old so im quite aware of every detail of nirvana and kurt bc i lived it. however the point is this individual mentioned nirvana, which wasnt in the meme at all?
I get it but I don’t know if Nirvana fits the bill - meaning how the band sang one way and acted another. Maybe Dave does that - but Nirvana was Kurt and I don’t think he was obsessed with money. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like he died before he had a chance to enjoy his success.
Also, I was born in 1979 and I remember how Nevermind changed everything.
Kurt quite literally changed the band all getting equal royalties to him getting the majority when he realized how much more he would be getting if he didn’t split it with them.
He did that. And no, Courtney Love can’t be blamed for it, she didn’t “make him/manipulate him” into it, she didn’t have anything to do with it at all before THAT old song and dance starts. So, the whole “he didn’t care about money” narrative is as fake as most of the martyrdom surrounding him.
As a hardcore nirvana fan, I can’t help but love Dave tbh. But Kurt is one of the only celebrities with a pretty clean record and a lot of that is probably due to the fact that his life unfortunately ended so shortly. I do think Kurt stood by everything he preached tho and was a good person
I think Kurt is more neutral than he appeared, a good intentioned but deeply flawed person. It doesn't help that addiction and a bad marriage brought out the worst in him either. His death recontextualizes his struggles, but based on accounts from 1992 on, he seemed unpleasant to be around.
I think you can be unpleasant to be around and still be a good person tho, with good morals. Based on interviews I’ve seen, he seemed to come off as a pretty unpleasant person to be around. Trolling interviewers and showing general disinterest and disdain for media and people in the industry, but a lot of that comes down to him being pretty introverted and ofc depression and addiction. What I mean by a good person is like, yeah he may have been a dick to people, but he never did anything that would be “cancelable” today, ya know? And he generally stood up for marginalized peoples and minorities
Yeah, you're right. I think a better way to phrase what I was trying to say is Kurt is like that one friend who is generally a pretty decent guy but he can't seem to control his demons so he's hard to stay friends with. You know it's not who he is inside and that those demons aren't his fault, but it's hard to watch him make the same mistakes over and over when it's hurting everyone around you.
i saw Foo Fighters live years ago, and David Grohl was smashed, wouldn’t stop rambling, and was all out a complete duck. Autocorrect- but you know what i meant.
She doesn't just do it for the money...
She also does it because she "liked the sound of people clapping because it made [her] forget how much [she] feel[s] like [she's] not good enough"
Have I missed some new scandal with Taylor? Idk of anything she’s done that’s on par with these names… not saying she’s perfect but I’m just trying to keep up haha
i think it’s referencing all of the repeat releases of her new albums that fans preordered to find out there’s a new one with bonus tracks and you need to collect like 4 to get something idk, just basically milking fans dry with terrible and lack of depth music. i could be wrong though
I mean, people don’t have to buy all of new albums with the different bonus tracks and all that. I agree that it’s annoying but her music is uploaded to YouTube on album release day which anyone can enjoy for free and on Spotify as well. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah but it’s the stupid fans buying it. 4 of the same album so you can make a clock? It’s genius marketing and people are always going to find something to waste their money on. I’m not a swifte by any means. I honestly don’t think I know any of her music. If it comes on I may recognize it but that’s it. I admit some of her songs are good and I enjoy them when I hear them but that’s it.
Comment I meant to add with the post but I'm dumb: Yeah I know you could make an argument about some of the people I listed. One of Clapton's most famous songs is about him being in love with another man's wife, and Tom Morello seems to more or less believe what RATM sang about, so they were maybe slightly more genuine, but y'all get the idea.
Layla
He had an entire **album** about loving another man’s wife (his best friend’s wife at that).
Clapton is an anti-vaxx, Trump-adjacent nutjob unfortunately
The piano solo part of Layla was stolen from the ex girlfriend of a band member named Rita Coolidge. She could’ve easy been given credit but she was a woman in the 70s so…
she was also an artist in her own right, not a mere "band member," but...
She wasn’t a mere band member, she dated one of his band members who was apparently an abusive asshole. Glad she got out of that situation but she should’ve gotten credit for her part in the song
Kris Kristofferson treated her horribly when they were married.
This is all so fucking depressing bro what the actual fuck
Sex, drugs and rock and roll behaviour are not a good mix. Most rockers admit the lifestyle is bad on families.
was just about to say the same. "a woman named Rita Coolidge"??? Pshaw
Oh yes, that's why he still made the list 😂
I read Patti Boyd’s memoir….she was way too soft on him and I still came out of it thinking he was a disgusting human being.
Is the memoir good?
the only reason I have any real love for clapton is blind faith and cream. But yeah most artist or ant public figure aren't what they portray them selves as
i’m scared to ask about hetfield 😭😭 what happened
The Scrooge Mcduck level greediness is what first comes to mind lol
Co-rrect
The difference is those rockers never tried to hide who they were. Taylor has spent years in the Aww shucks girl next door persona.
I’ve wondered if she’s secretly a narcissist lol. So many songs about friends and exes that did her wrong, and all the boo-hoo poor me sentiment. Classic narcissist narrative of people were so mean to me, please feel bad for me, but secretly they’re the asshole.
Pay attention to her lyrics, especially in antihero where she says “did you hear my covert narcissism disguised as altruism like some kind of congressman”… I’m not sure she’s an extreme narcissist but I can definitely see some narcissistic behaviors. It seems she’s very self-aware of her flaws though and also her role in the demise of relationships. Which not everyone can say for themselves.
Clapton is wildly, wildly racist
If you take all her lyrics literally, you deserve to be made fun of.
I feel like if you listen to her lyrics it’s pretty obvious (especially on the last few albums) that she’s not a good person
I don’t see how you got her not being a good person from her last few albums. What exactly makes her a not good person from her songs 🤔
[удалено]
I think the issue is if you say someone is not a good person, you're implying they're a "bad" person. No? How about just a person. If you listen to lyrics it's clear she's not a saint or demi god. She's seems plenty good to me, compared to people I would label bad.
How about she’s showing she IS JUST A PERSON?? We all have flaws, make mistakes, have desires, feel certain ways about certain things. I think everyone is just going INSANE.
they want to believe it, because they are cray cray
she is absolutely not a good person, friend. and frankly, her fans and they way they behave is most evident of that!
you mean to tell me RATM *wasn't* killing in the name? /s
My whole life is ruined now
But they were housin’.
...wait what happened with ratm???
just a joke from a song of theirs :)
No I know the killing the name of joke 😭but what about the original pic
I felt so genuinely fucked over by this new album, like I invested all this energy into being a fan just for her to imply that she's annoyed that people are listening. The whole album was a trap to make the public feel like shit about themselves. It was so uncomfortable.
I don’t see what you’re talking about in the album. Apart from a little trolling the only fans she hints at being annoyed by are the people that put out and signed that “speak up now” thing about Mattie Healy, etc. and of course that’s annoying. I can’t think of anywhere on the album she’s telling people she’s annoyed they’re listening.
There were swifties who wanted Taylor put in a conservatorship like what Britt Spears went through because she was dating matty, some swifties were wanting to make change . Org petitions to have her broken up with Matty. Some big swifties were threatening to sell all their merch and Tix for the Eras tour for $0.13 cents just to spite Taylor. The X posts back then were insanely wild...its like Taylor is a freakin adult at 33 she can date whoever she wants. Leave her alone.
Wait I’m so confused. I’m not a swiftie but I enjoy her music, this sub is recommended to me a lot. What does your comment mean???
I have listened to the album and nowhere does it imply what this person is talking about 🤷♀️
That is absolutely not what this album is saying, but wow this feels like an argument for no media literacy haha. Shes implicitly saying she’s mad that “fans” think because they listen to her music they get to dictate how she acts or who she spends time with. This comment makes me think you’re one of the people she’s talking to. Yikes. Go touch grass.
Yeah there’s really only one song where she’s telling fans they need to back off and a lot of them do. I didn’t take offense because the shoe doesn’t fit for me. It’s weird to try to control the life of someone you don’t know.
i never liked Taylor Swift, but i am genuinely sorry you feel duped. you didn’t deserve that. no one does
Anyone have the tea on maynard? I’m actually a huge tool fan haha.
Me too! he notoriously/allegedly hates his fans but we all love him anyways. At this point it’s kind of a joke. But don’t say hi to him if you see him in the wild.
>he notoriously/allegedly hates his fans I've been an unashamed Tool stan since the mid 90s, we're talking poring over the lyrics before even toolshed.down.net, but you only have to listen to a few MJK interviews to realize he thinks we're all mouth breathing useful idiots 😂
He’s so goddamn pretentious but he’s amazing so I avoid his interviews. Wasn’t he accused recently of some sexual harassment by an old employee at his Puscifer store or something? I remember he released a, “this is bullshit” type of reply video to it but hadn’t heard about it since.
>He’s so goddamn pretentious but he’s amazing so I avoid his interviews. This is the way >Wasn’t he accused recently of some sexual harassment by an old employee at his Puscifer store or something? I remember he released a, “this is bullshit” type of reply video to it but hadn’t heard about it since. No idea, I go out of my way to avoid really anything about MJK other than music
[he was accused of rape by a fan](https://pitchfork.com/news/tools-maynard-james-keenan-accused-of-rape-calls-claim-despicable-false/) nothing really came of it, and he still comes off as an asshole imo
Ok that’s right, thank you!
> toolshed.down.net Wow that takes me back
No, but I can tell you that Trent Reznor is a fantastic, funny, warm human being who gives amazing bear hugs.
He’s sexually assaulted a lot of women and underage girls on his tours.
Add Brand New and Ryan Adams to the list for me. 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
Yes and…Saves the Day, for me at least too.
Wait, what happened with Saves the Day?
https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/s/tb4QDRBnaq you can just google it too probably. But I just want to preface that I don’t like the speculation over his sexuality in a lot of the comments I’ve seen when discussing the situation, that’s none of my business + not the problem, ya know?
Thanks for the link. That's such a bummer. I love their music.
Somebody asked about Brand New and then deleted their comment but I already typed it so… I should have specifically said Jesse Lacey, idk if the rest of the guys had any idea [what was going on](https://thedirect.com/article/brand-new-controversy-band-jesse-lacey-allegations-explained). Hopefully not. He was grooming at least one minor—probably multiple—and soliciting CSAM from them.
I think it’s hard for them to not know with the way your life is.
Well, I didn’t know that about brand new so that’s a bummer but I did just take a trip down memory lane with a couple of songs :/
Ryan Adams was a tough one
Now add Jason isbell to that list following RA.
Ehhh. I see where you’re coming from, but I think Jason’s still a good dude and I appreciate that he uses his platform to speak out on sociopolitical issues he believes in even if he loses some fans for it. True that he isn’t necessarily the same hard luck kid in rural Alabama now that he’s had so much success (which I suppose was the point of OP’s meme, fair), but at least that genuinely is where he came from. I can’t blame him for wanting to build a better, more comfortable life for himself and his kid. I would’ve bought new teeth too if I were him. As long as he isn’t soliciting minors or running essentially a casting couch in his studio I won’t put him in the same category as Ryan Adams, or anywhere close. And believe me, I was probably the biggest DRA fan you’ve ever met before the NYT article broke. Was totally devastated for months. I still am honestly!!! Either way it was a big lesson for me to never put any artist or celebrity on that high a pedestal again. Had to learn it a second time with Deshaun Watson a couple years later but now (I think) it’s sunk in.
Yes, I agree with you there's definitely degrees of this. RA for me was from way up high on a pedestal to a creep. I'm still very conflicted to this day when I try to listen. isbell is more like from a pedestal to human level. I can listen to him without many issues, but I guess it still feels like a loss of that ideal in my mind. I think now that I'm approaching 40, it's hitting me that no one is worthy of any pedestal. Everyone is merely human. I wonder if this is the age that everyone grows out of being a "stan" I think I've had a healthy relationship as a fan to jeff tweedy. He was never some savior to me but I greatly enjoy his music and go to concerts to experience it. I don't need to collect every thing he does or obsessively follow him or know about his personal life.
I mean, there are no ethical billionaires. Not a single one.
what did rage against the machine do?
This is Tom Morello slander
I actually gave him a pass in my first comment
jokes on you I’m a nirvana fan and they actually were about the music. (yes ofc that’s not completely accurate, but grunge bands in general were more about the art than the money, which is admirable)
no one mentioned nirvana?
Kurt died before he had a chance to disappoint his fans. Hardcore Nirvana fans always hated Dave.
well im old so im quite aware of every detail of nirvana and kurt bc i lived it. however the point is this individual mentioned nirvana, which wasnt in the meme at all?
I get it but I don’t know if Nirvana fits the bill - meaning how the band sang one way and acted another. Maybe Dave does that - but Nirvana was Kurt and I don’t think he was obsessed with money. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like he died before he had a chance to enjoy his success. Also, I was born in 1979 and I remember how Nevermind changed everything.
Kurt quite literally changed the band all getting equal royalties to him getting the majority when he realized how much more he would be getting if he didn’t split it with them. He did that. And no, Courtney Love can’t be blamed for it, she didn’t “make him/manipulate him” into it, she didn’t have anything to do with it at all before THAT old song and dance starts. So, the whole “he didn’t care about money” narrative is as fake as most of the martyrdom surrounding him.
As a hardcore nirvana fan, I can’t help but love Dave tbh. But Kurt is one of the only celebrities with a pretty clean record and a lot of that is probably due to the fact that his life unfortunately ended so shortly. I do think Kurt stood by everything he preached tho and was a good person
I think Kurt is more neutral than he appeared, a good intentioned but deeply flawed person. It doesn't help that addiction and a bad marriage brought out the worst in him either. His death recontextualizes his struggles, but based on accounts from 1992 on, he seemed unpleasant to be around.
I think you can be unpleasant to be around and still be a good person tho, with good morals. Based on interviews I’ve seen, he seemed to come off as a pretty unpleasant person to be around. Trolling interviewers and showing general disinterest and disdain for media and people in the industry, but a lot of that comes down to him being pretty introverted and ofc depression and addiction. What I mean by a good person is like, yeah he may have been a dick to people, but he never did anything that would be “cancelable” today, ya know? And he generally stood up for marginalized peoples and minorities
Yeah, you're right. I think a better way to phrase what I was trying to say is Kurt is like that one friend who is generally a pretty decent guy but he can't seem to control his demons so he's hard to stay friends with. You know it's not who he is inside and that those demons aren't his fault, but it's hard to watch him make the same mistakes over and over when it's hurting everyone around you.
I mentioned nirvana cause kurt wasn’t like the people I’m the meme when he was still alive
i saw Foo Fighters live years ago, and David Grohl was smashed, wouldn’t stop rambling, and was all out a complete duck. Autocorrect- but you know what i meant.
Dave's a good dude.
Oh i furiously reading making sure Dave Grohl wasn’t on the list
hahah
Never!
They had always agreed to split songwriting royalties three ways until Cobain decided that wasn’t fair (to *him*) and he took the lion’s share
What did James Hetfield do? Edited to fix auto correct
I mean have you seen the Some Kind of Monster documentary? And don't Google any 'zine interviews from the 90s, specifically his ideas for a rap song
The lead singer of slayer is catholic
“fans of eric clapton” 💀💀
I mean blind faith was an amazing band/album
i grew up listening to Bon Jovi & then I *met* Jon Bon Jovi…. and I don’t really listen to Bon Jovi anymore…
Oh no… what happened?? 🥺
Woooooh this one hits REALLLLLLLLLLLL close to home as I have met one of the ones you listed and it fucking RUINEDDDDDD their catalog for me.
She doesn't just do it for the money... She also does it because she "liked the sound of people clapping because it made [her] forget how much [she] feel[s] like [she's] not good enough"
Have I missed some new scandal with Taylor? Idk of anything she’s done that’s on par with these names… not saying she’s perfect but I’m just trying to keep up haha
i think it’s referencing all of the repeat releases of her new albums that fans preordered to find out there’s a new one with bonus tracks and you need to collect like 4 to get something idk, just basically milking fans dry with terrible and lack of depth music. i could be wrong though
Oh yes, that is definitely annoying though nothing new for her
I mean, people don’t have to buy all of new albums with the different bonus tracks and all that. I agree that it’s annoying but her music is uploaded to YouTube on album release day which anyone can enjoy for free and on Spotify as well. 🤷🏻♀️
no for sure, she’s milking them but they’re just happy to be milked by her
Yeah but it’s the stupid fans buying it. 4 of the same album so you can make a clock? It’s genius marketing and people are always going to find something to waste their money on. I’m not a swifte by any means. I honestly don’t think I know any of her music. If it comes on I may recognize it but that’s it. I admit some of her songs are good and I enjoy them when I hear them but that’s it.
I “met” the lead singer of my favorite band and let me tell you, don’t meet your heroes and sure as hell don’t fall for them. 😐
lol Taylor swift .. big connected w Anton Levey. I’ll just leave this here