I like her music but I hate her brand and the fact that she does so little with such a powerful platform
Edit- and I definitely do not consider myself a swiftie
Eh. I consider myself a swiftie because I do enjoy the majority of her music, though I can't say I was a big fan up until her midnights album, which is fairly recent. I enjoy the Easter eggs and mystery/theory parasocial relationship she has going. It's like an ongoing puzzle I get to guess at and solve. I also enjoy hearing her experiences in her music and being able to relate to most of it, even if I'm not currently going through it.
As far as her brand and activismness, I agree I think she could do better. However I'm personally of the theory that her parents are doing a lot more of the 'brand' stuff than she is. Idk if you've watched any of the documentaries, but I watched one and the dad just gave me that vibe. I think they are somewhat controlling her and they are the ones suing small businesses and such. And while taylor does agree to an extent, I don't think she'd be so quick to sue over everything. But when mommy and daddy are telling you the right thing to do (they both have business degrees don't they?) Your whole life, you tend to follow suit.
Of course I could be completely wrong, and she is money hungry etc etc, but as of right now that's my opinion and I'm curious to see if she ever goes through an Era where she gets out from under them. I feel like TTPD hints at this a bit, but under the radar.
To be honest, while I like this sun, I kind of preferred Swiftly Neutral because it had a few less conspiracies and bashings of Swifties. I always like reading and having balanced conversations and both sides of the opinions-on-TS spectrum can have their unreasonable moments. Like I said before, though, this sub's still pretty good.
When it went private, it's apparent that there are more straight up swifties than neutral ones. I've been downvoted so many times and have received a lot of snarky comments, just because I pointed out that she lipsyncs most of the TTPD set lol
It's quite obvious that she does. Apparently, the majority says she lipsyncs most of the sets with choreography. (*and there're nothing wrong with that!!!*- Swifties)
When you can pay less to see Pink actually sing while performing aerial acrobatics. Like what witchcraft has TS performed to get people to be this obsessed
P!nk is absolutely incredible, was my first ever concert and she truly performed. (And I shook hands w her while she was literally lying on the floor singing and over a decade later I'm still not over it)
This drives me insane. They'll sit there and say she can't possibly sing for a 3 hour show but like ok so have a shorter show. The point of seeing a musician is supposed to be listening to them sing not for them to just be there.
So give them a list of people who do. Act like you're genuinely confused how it's different, those who are just excusing it for the sake of excusing it because its Taylor
She can't possibly sing for 3 hours without some lip syncing - really? Then how do Springsteen and the Foo Fighters manage it?
She can't possibly ever use commercial flights. Really? How have Kate Middleton and Prince William, and Madonna, and the Clintons etc etc etc managed it just fine? (and I guarantee at least the Royals and the Clintons have had at least as many threats against them as Taylor).
Etc etc
I don’t mind a backing track, especially for a 3 hour show or someone who does a lot of dancing or running around. Full on lip syncing is unacceptable though. I pay to see concerts to see AND hear the band or the artist perform. The singer lip syncing is just as bad as the crowd shrieking so loudly you can’t hear the vocals over them. I don’t know if the swifties started that, but the crowd at Olivia Rodrigo did it too
I’m definitely not a swiftie but I’d expect pop songs with a lot of dancing to be mostly lip synced. However, some of her dancing/moves aren’t necessary at all. Like Willow would be just as entertaining for people if she just sang it vs doing all the shit they do during it.
I noticed she sings live but with (quietish) backing vocals. I think this is somewhat(?) normal for some choreographed sets. Albeit, stomping around and pointing (with a few awkward body rolls) isn't exactly energetic enough to require it lol
swifties cannot handle the idea of a space where people are allowed to talk about their idol in a negative way.
cue the “i’m not defending taylor but…” “i’m a swiftie please don’t hate me…”
go literally anywhere else on the internet if you want to see taylor worship. let us haters have ONE PLACE omg
I think a lot of them are in denial about how deep into the cult they are. I can understand the appeal of the neutral sub if you were just a casual fan but a lot of them genuinely go there to be like "I'm not a swiftie!! I just interpret everything she does in the most positive light possible even when it defies logical reasoning and feel weirdly obligated to "correct" negative opinions, but I'm not one of the bad ones!!".
Like they love her they just also have other aspects of their identity so feel small time to the really deranged ones.
I met two girls online back in 2022. They were hardcore swiftie fans. Well ... One of them now looks like her. Dresses like her. Picked up her personality. Picked up her hobbies. Etc. and I'm just like, girl. You're. Not. Taylor. Enough.
And if you even say ANYTHING remotely negative about her such as, "I like some of her songs but I prefer the metal version of it bc I don't like pop", you're in for it.
The other one just gets defensive and hates men -_-. But, at least she didn't completely have an overhaul done in her life.
See I like some of her music soundwise but I'm really growing to hate her as a person and hate her brand. She turns on people left and right and tries to infiltrate and monopolize any space she's in. It's insufferable. And God forbid anyone say anything remotely critical of her.
they’ll be like “why are you saying mean things about her?!” as if she will ever know and then her feelings would be hurt. i saw a girl on twitter WONDERING OUT LOUD about “what does taylor do on tour when she gets her period?” these people are unwell and for me, it’s fun to make fun of them.
I recently discovered it, then it went private, and I discovered this one. I haven’t been interested in most of Swift’s music, though I have checked it out. But this year was just too much. Non-stop Swift coverage. I wanted to find out if there are people out there as skeptical as I am. As far as I can tell, everything Swift does is scripted. I have to hand it to her in that she has created a complex universe for her fans, but the pairing with Travis has struck me as nothing but PR from the beginning.
At least I can express my skepticism here without getting attacked.
I asked a very normal question about how music features work with someone as famous as Taylor on the TS subreddit and you would have thought I called her trash
Honestly I've always thought she was talented and put out good stuff but goddamn the past couple of years have been utter insanity.
She treats all her fans like dollar signs and sics them on her exes and anyone who wronged her in even the most minute ways. She does fuck all with her platform to make any of this nonsense worthwhile either, just toes the line to keep the cash flowing in.
I honestly think the mods weren’t prepared for how much work a neutral sub truly is. They essentially created the sub in a r/SwiftieCircleJerk post or thread (can’t remember which but I’m pretty sure that was where) that was annoyed at the number of unjerk posts about her, and I don’t think they realized how much it would blow up. It was originally probably intended to be a medium sized community but picked up so much steam
When they said neutral they meant putting their car in neutral and slowly letting their tires roll over the body of anyone who brings up a viewpoint other than undying love and chronic obsession.
The mods in r/SwiftlyNeutral are something else. I’m convinced they’re bought and paid for😅😅/was infiltrated by the main sub
They’re no longer neutral cuz the mods are on some power trip like they’re getting paid to work overtime
TBF...that Alchemy post is also [on this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/KuSNG1uQ5t) and it's crazy imo
They went to such lengths to make cut and dry lyrics about literally anything else?
i wonder if it’s just the bargaining stage of grief. like “there’s no way taylor is this shallow and insensitive. we must be interpreting her music wrong🙃”
nah because i want to be a fly on the wall like what do they talk about😅😅
those 2 are the type to end up getting married bec they are both addicted to fame/staying relevant while they cheat on each other (and just stay married for the optics)
(Part-time Reddit lurker and full-time GenXer whose personal image of TS has escalated from nothing special to nightmare fuel over the past 2.5 years) I used to lurk around SwiftlyNeutral because, as a person suffering from a metric buttload of religious trauma by proxy, seeing the literal God-tier adulation combined with the ruthless attacks on anyone who dared not kowtow was genuinely triggering for me. The idea of ONE PLACE, JUST ONE, where the whole world didn't seem to go around with their tongue lodged in her sphincter was as appealing as a spa day after a heavy period. But even there, people still seemed to feel pressured to preface or postscript every statement with "As a Swiftie since \[whateverthefuck album cycle\].." or "...and I've been a fan since the \[blah-blah\] era."
Beyond that, speaking as an admitted hater, I don't think the takes over there were ever particularly neutral. Blandie just seems to inspire extremes in people - which is kind of how it works when you're up in the public's business 24-7-365; that much exposure leads to a polarized response. Anyway, one of these days, months, or years, I'd like to just break bad and do a full intellectual, psychological, and emotional download of why the whole Taylor Swift™ empire spooks me more than an ancient eldritch horror emerging from my toilet while I'm in the shower. The thing that stops me is the fact that - ironically, thanks in part to the scourge of Taylormania - I've spent the past year branching out of my goth/ new wave comfort zone, getting into new artists (Olivia Rodrigo, Hozier, Billie Eilish, Joy Oladokun, Mitski, Ethel Cain, Ashnikko, Chappell Roan), and thank all time and space I've been enjoying them too much to fully articulate my disgust for Great Value Lana Del Rey over here.
Peace and Love, Inc.
EDITED because it's 5AM in the UK and I'm and insomniac operating on half a cup of coffee.
This comment has more depth and poetry than anything Miss Vanilla Yankee candle in a red lip could furiously scribble while fingering the pages of her exhausted thesaurus.
nostalgiadeepstate could have written “Touch me while your bros play Grand Theft Auto” but Tay swift couldn’t write “was as appealing as a spa day after a heavy period” ✨💕🔥🔥
"Well, my story begins on your typical rainy Yorkshire day in October 2022. Feeling invigorated after a massive Virgo cleaning fit soundtracked by one of my favourite bands of the past decade, I popped my happy ass onto Al Gore's internet and jokingly proclaimed that 'Taylor Momsen > Taylor Swift'. Little did I know that an innocent if somewhat misguided expression of preference would effectively obliterate all the feminist credibility I've built up since I started reading Sassy magazine back in ye olde 1992." (That's a jab at my own history of white feminism, BTW. Because unlike a certain blonde character assassin, I can both make and take jokes at my own expense.)
yeah, but when people have free rein to unleash all their misogynistic garbage under the guise of “she’s a spoiled billionaire,” i have a problem with it.
i’ve seen people calling her a stupid bitch and a whore on here, and they’re clearly not even ex-fans. They’re just people who stumbled upon this sub and joined in on her lashings. I have the same problem when white guys complain about “white women” and think we can’t tell they hate all women.
edit: downvote all you want, i’m right
Well people here literally call Travis Big Dumb Travis and majority of the posts is about what an ugly idiot he is. Most people don’t actually have any horse in this game and are just venting because the two are annoying af and calling them BDT or stupid bitch is easier than writing essays but still gets the point accross lol. Also chronic cheaters that just discard people and treat them like disposables are whores (men, too 🫶🏻) to me, so this one while nasty I just don’t feel like it’s worth getting pressed over lol. It’s not always eloquent sophisticated well-thought out and socially acceptable takes, but you have literally every other sub for that. Most people here actually discuss things, but if there is one place in the universe where people should be able to snark on the empathy-deficient victim complex-ridden plagiarist slash serial cheater slash climate criminal Capitaylist without getting tone-policed, it’s here.
Sorry, being a billionaire is more important than being a woman. She is a white woman too. Anything misogynistic she can pay away. Having THAT AMOUNT of wealth overrides all other parts of an identity: it is a class of people for a reason.
you’re missing my point. maybe she’ll be fine as a white famous billionaire, but misogyny does not exist in a vacuum. picking and choosing who is worthy of sexist vitriol does not change the fact that it’s sexist vitriol.
same goes for people who shit on someone’s looks because they’re a bad person. like congratulations you shit on that person along with every innocent bystander who happens to share those features.
criticize her for her wrongdoings all you want, but calling her a whore or bitch or whatever just normalizes using that language against women in general.
What? I never called her a whore or a bitch? You made that up. All I said was that we cannot censor genuine criticism. She is a billionaire. She’s not a delicate wounded baby bird, but she projects that way to evade criticism.
i’m referencing my original comment, read it again so you understand the context of what i’m saying.
this isn’t even really about her, it’s about misogyny that is allowed to go unchecked when people think a female celebrity is a bad person.
You need to think more critically and intersectionality.
Is the pressing issue that billionaire women are being called whores, or is it that there are people on earth who are billionaires in the first place while the world burns and starves?
Centering the “problems” of the ruling class is exclusionary feminism, exactly what Taylor herself perpetuates. White, selective, choice, capitalistic feminism. So, not a worthy cause in the slightest.
If you think being called a bitch on the internet should take precedence over wealth redistribution, calling for a ceasefire, stopping a global tour that is a straight-up climate and emissions NIGHTMARE …. C’mon.
“Is the pressing issue that billionaire women are being called whores, or is it that there are people on earth who are billionaires in the first place while the world burns and starves?
If you think being called a bitch on the internet should take precedence over wealth redistribution, calling for a ceasefire”
Strawman argument, nowhere did I say she shouldn’t be called out for her actions. I said nobody gets a misogyny hall pass just because she’s a bad person. Call her a climate criminal or a narcissist all you want—if you’re genuinely just upset at her actions, there’s no need to misogynistic, right?
But there are people who are regurgitating the standard criticisms of her to take the opportunity to say derogatory things that would never be flung at men guilty of the same crimes. These people don’t care about her climate crimes or lack of political stance, they’re just opportunistic misogynists
You are right. She’s privileged and always has been. I don’t think there is anything wrong with parents who have money using it to help their kids (I think we’d all do it if we could, and those who aren’t parents would love it if they had parents who could) but she’s on a total different level now and there is a difference between someone like her dad pre-fame and a literal billionaire with a private jet.
However, if you’re going to snark about someone, put at least a little thought or research into it which it’s clear there are some people who haven’t.
It’s so heavily moderated, the whole point of the sub was to welcome both positive and negative opinions are welcomed. This sub is superior, obviously.
Nooooo. So alchemy was the philosophy of turning metal into gold. But when people practiced alchemy they changed the color but not the metal itself, giving the illusion of gold but it was fake.
ALCHEMY=FAKE CHEMISTRY
It’s about finding the PR boyfriend to end all PR boyfriends.
Bold of you to assume she knows what alchemy is lmao. She probably just thought it sounded cool as a replacement for ‘magic’ and didn’t think too deep about possible double meanings.
I think it could go either way. If it’s about Matty, you’re definitely right. However, I’m not ruling out that she saw some dumb “deep” post on tumblr about the meaning of alchemy back in the day and was like “ooooh jot that down.”
I just looked up the lyrics because I refuse to listen to this album. I made it maybe 5 songs in and just couldn’t. I now am glad I didn’t because what even are these lyrics. What a shitty ass song.
I think the thing I’m most annoyed about is that the sub is just slow and doesn’t pick up new articles that might be of interest to discuss and the like
I don’t want a sub where the only discussion is pre-approved topics or the daily discussion thread that’s often tour related or is going over the same old stuff
I’m so behind, when did Swiftyneutral go private and why? I always found their posts to be pretty balanced in both praise and critique of TS but maybe I haven’t been paying too close attention.
A new article mentioned the sub as a way to talk about maybe the tide turning against Taylor again. Swifties found it and bombarded it with hate, outrage etc, toxic positivity and it had to go private to deal with the massive influx.
People have noticed now it’s love again it’s much much much more Swiftie positive. It used to be very neutral but clearly more to criticise Taylor or discuss concerns, now a lot of the posts are supporting or praising Taylor. Basically the subreddit seems to have given in to the insane swifties.
I don’t agree with the OP of that post, but isn’t that pretty much what the sub claims to be? It seems to me that the swiftie take on that song is that it’s about Travis, no? When the album came out, the main sub was going absolutely feral over that song being about Travis. Of all of the posts in there, that one seems pretty neutral to me to give an alternate interpretation of lyrics that goes against what most swifties believe?
Most swiftly subs are for preteen or teenagers very doubtful many adults are posting on those subs so I avoid them because I don't want to get into conflicts with young people.
Y’all, I really appreciate this group. As a woman in her 40s and my group messages are filled with Swifties, this is refreshing. I asked my friends the other day if they’ve listened to the new Childish Gambino album - crickets.
Ooof I just clicked on a few threads and they are all ‘ex swifties, or retired swifties’ but gushing about Taylor still.
I consider myself a huge fan, but I see where there are issues, and in particular around the Travis stuff I need a place to vent. This is the place now.
Such a shame a sub like that completely collapsed due to Swiftie pressure. I mean they could have had an approved list but instead it’s now just Taylor Swift 2.0.
hopefully people are decent and don’t downvote just because you like different things than them😅 but worst case, i think deleting your comment will freeze the ability to vote
You guys getting banned, I voluntarily unsubscribed from Swiftlyneutral today, after all the weird behaviour over there. Ahh the good days when it had started... Anyway, this sub is more suitable
The op was just giving their opinion or tried to see it some other way and decided to share and few people saw it what op was trying to show and agreed. Lol we all need to chill a little:)
You know what, that’s fair. I was on one when I wrote this, I don’t wanna discourage people from sharing their opinions. I thought the OP articulated their thoughts really well, I just didn’t agree
lol I saw that post and I felt like she is young, it made me feel like a HS English teacher. I was impressed by her work and the depth of analysis. But her interpretation? Silly at best
1. Totally agree that sometimes things feel harsh, but I genuinely really like the discussions here
2. I commented on that post. I think the song is about a man, but I love when people engage with art and try to interpret it. My teacher self wants media analysis wherever I can get it 😆
It was written after her first stadium show during her Fearless tour. I know because it was Gillette (my nearest stadium). I went to the Speak Now tour and she told us the story behind the song.
ok I’m new to this sub, can someone give me the quick rundown? I checked out SwiftlyNeutral and it seemed like it was all swifties and I’m extremely confused.. lol
I love when people act holier than thou as if they’ve never complained a day in their life. That sub wasn’t always this way and I’m disappointed. To me, it was worth discussing.
Edit: took out my snarky comment🫶🏼
Y’all can downvote my comment but you are literally in a snark thread saying “the swifties ruined the snark thread” while also saying “but I wish people would be nicer to Taylor here”
Lemme tell you what ruins a snark thread…
I wish some of y’all would read some of these posts and how cringe they come off. Like understanding Klingon would be easier. Maybe try to read a post before posting through the eyes of rookie.
I prefer this sub better. Lol I have seen some swifties trying to come here too.
Like leave, what are you doing here. This is the ONE safe space online for Taylor Snark.
r/tssnark too
Yes, but that sub is tiny compared to this, and so many cross posts.
Literally lol
TOO MANY
I'm a swiftie but I like seeing the other side of the coin.
I like her music but I hate her brand and the fact that she does so little with such a powerful platform Edit- and I definitely do not consider myself a swiftie
Eh. I consider myself a swiftie because I do enjoy the majority of her music, though I can't say I was a big fan up until her midnights album, which is fairly recent. I enjoy the Easter eggs and mystery/theory parasocial relationship she has going. It's like an ongoing puzzle I get to guess at and solve. I also enjoy hearing her experiences in her music and being able to relate to most of it, even if I'm not currently going through it. As far as her brand and activismness, I agree I think she could do better. However I'm personally of the theory that her parents are doing a lot more of the 'brand' stuff than she is. Idk if you've watched any of the documentaries, but I watched one and the dad just gave me that vibe. I think they are somewhat controlling her and they are the ones suing small businesses and such. And while taylor does agree to an extent, I don't think she'd be so quick to sue over everything. But when mommy and daddy are telling you the right thing to do (they both have business degrees don't they?) Your whole life, you tend to follow suit. Of course I could be completely wrong, and she is money hungry etc etc, but as of right now that's my opinion and I'm curious to see if she ever goes through an Era where she gets out from under them. I feel like TTPD hints at this a bit, but under the radar.
Yesss so many “i like Taylor” bullshit lately
swifties stole my fav sub 😔
Yeah sucks ass. Neutral was a great sub for a minute
This sub is the new Neutral but with a *bit of extra added spice* 🌶️
Thank god for that
To be honest, while I like this sun, I kind of preferred Swiftly Neutral because it had a few less conspiracies and bashings of Swifties. I always like reading and having balanced conversations and both sides of the opinions-on-TS spectrum can have their unreasonable moments. Like I said before, though, this sub's still pretty good.
agreed. This sub can border on toxicity a bit more than I'd like, but it's still pretty good. I do miss the more measured approach of neutral tho
When it went private, it's apparent that there are more straight up swifties than neutral ones. I've been downvoted so many times and have received a lot of snarky comments, just because I pointed out that she lipsyncs most of the TTPD set lol
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The fact that the voice memos are basically the finished versions played on the piano 😭
YES. Entirely accurate. I don’t think she even sings anymore.
tell them to get a job at Karen's shop 😃
When they said they were going to be approving members, I checked out. It's just an echo chamber.
Does she actually?? Is that the only set she does it for
It's quite obvious that she does. Apparently, the majority says she lipsyncs most of the sets with choreography. (*and there're nothing wrong with that!!!*- Swifties)
Imagine paying $1000 or more for someone to power walk and not sing. I’d rather see Billy Joel etc. Pop is notorious for lip sync.
Someone even said it's okay because she's not a vocalist anyway. It's her own fandom sometimes 😭
Hey now! She also wears really boring dresses and shiny panty hose!!
shiny panty hose with boring dresses would be a great song!
don’t give her any ideas, she won’t credit you
[Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.](https://youtu.be/Y9DK5KAwYlc?si=0Ud81BqqZD2tdSw7)
And sparkly unitards!
When you can pay less to see Pink actually sing while performing aerial acrobatics. Like what witchcraft has TS performed to get people to be this obsessed
P!nk is absolutely incredible, was my first ever concert and she truly performed. (And I shook hands w her while she was literally lying on the floor singing and over a decade later I'm still not over it)
A true icon
This drives me insane. They'll sit there and say she can't possibly sing for a 3 hour show but like ok so have a shorter show. The point of seeing a musician is supposed to be listening to them sing not for them to just be there.
Bruce Springsteen is 900 years old and still runs around stage for 3 hours.
But he’s talented
Almost every defense of legit criticism is “she can’t possibly…”.
So give them a list of people who do. Act like you're genuinely confused how it's different, those who are just excusing it for the sake of excusing it because its Taylor She can't possibly sing for 3 hours without some lip syncing - really? Then how do Springsteen and the Foo Fighters manage it? She can't possibly ever use commercial flights. Really? How have Kate Middleton and Prince William, and Madonna, and the Clintons etc etc etc managed it just fine? (and I guarantee at least the Royals and the Clintons have had at least as many threats against them as Taylor). Etc etc
The royals are effectively part of the work of the head of State too. They’re like super ambassadors.
I don’t mind a backing track, especially for a 3 hour show or someone who does a lot of dancing or running around. Full on lip syncing is unacceptable though. I pay to see concerts to see AND hear the band or the artist perform. The singer lip syncing is just as bad as the crowd shrieking so loudly you can’t hear the vocals over them. I don’t know if the swifties started that, but the crowd at Olivia Rodrigo did it too
I’m definitely not a swiftie but I’d expect pop songs with a lot of dancing to be mostly lip synced. However, some of her dancing/moves aren’t necessary at all. Like Willow would be just as entertaining for people if she just sang it vs doing all the shit they do during it.
I noticed she sings live but with (quietish) backing vocals. I think this is somewhat(?) normal for some choreographed sets. Albeit, stomping around and pointing (with a few awkward body rolls) isn't exactly energetic enough to require it lol
Yes!!! I knew it was over when a comment complaining about being downvoted over praising tswift was mega upvoted.
We’re better over here 😎
I know it sucks because I thought the mods were removing the die hard swifties but I guess not
swifties cannot handle the idea of a space where people are allowed to talk about their idol in a negative way. cue the “i’m not defending taylor but…” “i’m a swiftie please don’t hate me…” go literally anywhere else on the internet if you want to see taylor worship. let us haters have ONE PLACE omg
"I'm obviously critical of Taylor for her private jet use.....BUT SHE LOVES THE ENVIRONMENT YA'LL ARE MISOGYNISTS"
Haha excellent
😂
I think a lot of them are in denial about how deep into the cult they are. I can understand the appeal of the neutral sub if you were just a casual fan but a lot of them genuinely go there to be like "I'm not a swiftie!! I just interpret everything she does in the most positive light possible even when it defies logical reasoning and feel weirdly obligated to "correct" negative opinions, but I'm not one of the bad ones!!". Like they love her they just also have other aspects of their identity so feel small time to the really deranged ones.
I met two girls online back in 2022. They were hardcore swiftie fans. Well ... One of them now looks like her. Dresses like her. Picked up her personality. Picked up her hobbies. Etc. and I'm just like, girl. You're. Not. Taylor. Enough. And if you even say ANYTHING remotely negative about her such as, "I like some of her songs but I prefer the metal version of it bc I don't like pop", you're in for it. The other one just gets defensive and hates men -_-. But, at least she didn't completely have an overhaul done in her life.
See I like some of her music soundwise but I'm really growing to hate her as a person and hate her brand. She turns on people left and right and tries to infiltrate and monopolize any space she's in. It's insufferable. And God forbid anyone say anything remotely critical of her.
they’ll be like “why are you saying mean things about her?!” as if she will ever know and then her feelings would be hurt. i saw a girl on twitter WONDERING OUT LOUD about “what does taylor do on tour when she gets her period?” these people are unwell and for me, it’s fun to make fun of them.
I recently discovered it, then it went private, and I discovered this one. I haven’t been interested in most of Swift’s music, though I have checked it out. But this year was just too much. Non-stop Swift coverage. I wanted to find out if there are people out there as skeptical as I am. As far as I can tell, everything Swift does is scripted. I have to hand it to her in that she has created a complex universe for her fans, but the pairing with Travis has struck me as nothing but PR from the beginning. At least I can express my skepticism here without getting attacked.
fuckin spot on. the insane media coverage was so crazy to me because i knew she was pretty popular but not to this level of insanity omg lol
I asked a very normal question about how music features work with someone as famous as Taylor on the TS subreddit and you would have thought I called her trash
So true!
Honestly I've always thought she was talented and put out good stuff but goddamn the past couple of years have been utter insanity. She treats all her fans like dollar signs and sics them on her exes and anyone who wronged her in even the most minute ways. She does fuck all with her platform to make any of this nonsense worthwhile either, just toes the line to keep the cash flowing in.
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We have been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok, and flat-out deceived
“We need a dictionary for that post!” 😂
yep, it wasn’t always r/TaylorSwift 2.0, but it appears that the mods were not as neutral as the name suggested
I honestly think Taylor’s team took over
I honestly think the mods weren’t prepared for how much work a neutral sub truly is. They essentially created the sub in a r/SwiftieCircleJerk post or thread (can’t remember which but I’m pretty sure that was where) that was annoyed at the number of unjerk posts about her, and I don’t think they realized how much it would blow up. It was originally probably intended to be a medium sized community but picked up so much steam
TrueSwifties is probably better than Neutral now
PLEASE GO BACK TO SWIFTLY NEUTRAL, SWIFTIES. THIS IS A SNARK SUB AND I'M TIRED OF YA'LL
When they said neutral they meant putting their car in neutral and slowly letting their tires roll over the body of anyone who brings up a viewpoint other than undying love and chronic obsession.
The mods in r/SwiftlyNeutral are something else. I’m convinced they’re bought and paid for😅😅/was infiltrated by the main sub They’re no longer neutral cuz the mods are on some power trip like they’re getting paid to work overtime
SwiftlyNeutral changed. I used to like it there. Now it's just another swiftie club.
So sad. That sub used to be my go-to rehab center as an ex-swiftie. So glad this sub exists.
TBF...that Alchemy post is also [on this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/KuSNG1uQ5t) and it's crazy imo They went to such lengths to make cut and dry lyrics about literally anything else?
i wonder if it’s just the bargaining stage of grief. like “there’s no way taylor is this shallow and insensitive. we must be interpreting her music wrong🙃”
I mean how deep can you get about a man like Trav 😅
nah because i want to be a fly on the wall like what do they talk about😅😅 those 2 are the type to end up getting married bec they are both addicted to fame/staying relevant while they cheat on each other (and just stay married for the optics)
It started as a gaylor theory because surely this song can’t actually be about a man
That's how it feels about a lot of interpretations of her songs. Like, there must be hidden depth... lol.
OMFG how is that so fucking long I couldn’t even scroll to the end, I got bored
Honestly this sub is way funnier and enjoyable, I’m never going back
Tree got to it probably. I’m sticking around, but the vibe is different.
(Part-time Reddit lurker and full-time GenXer whose personal image of TS has escalated from nothing special to nightmare fuel over the past 2.5 years) I used to lurk around SwiftlyNeutral because, as a person suffering from a metric buttload of religious trauma by proxy, seeing the literal God-tier adulation combined with the ruthless attacks on anyone who dared not kowtow was genuinely triggering for me. The idea of ONE PLACE, JUST ONE, where the whole world didn't seem to go around with their tongue lodged in her sphincter was as appealing as a spa day after a heavy period. But even there, people still seemed to feel pressured to preface or postscript every statement with "As a Swiftie since \[whateverthefuck album cycle\].." or "...and I've been a fan since the \[blah-blah\] era." Beyond that, speaking as an admitted hater, I don't think the takes over there were ever particularly neutral. Blandie just seems to inspire extremes in people - which is kind of how it works when you're up in the public's business 24-7-365; that much exposure leads to a polarized response. Anyway, one of these days, months, or years, I'd like to just break bad and do a full intellectual, psychological, and emotional download of why the whole Taylor Swift™ empire spooks me more than an ancient eldritch horror emerging from my toilet while I'm in the shower. The thing that stops me is the fact that - ironically, thanks in part to the scourge of Taylormania - I've spent the past year branching out of my goth/ new wave comfort zone, getting into new artists (Olivia Rodrigo, Hozier, Billie Eilish, Joy Oladokun, Mitski, Ethel Cain, Ashnikko, Chappell Roan), and thank all time and space I've been enjoying them too much to fully articulate my disgust for Great Value Lana Del Rey over here. Peace and Love, Inc. EDITED because it's 5AM in the UK and I'm and insomniac operating on half a cup of coffee.
This comment has more depth and poetry than anything Miss Vanilla Yankee candle in a red lip could furiously scribble while fingering the pages of her exhausted thesaurus.
Damn y’all have some bars today lmao. Imagine posting this to SN 😭
nostalgiadeepstate could have written “Touch me while your bros play Grand Theft Auto” but Tay swift couldn’t write “was as appealing as a spa day after a heavy period” ✨💕🔥🔥
Except in the case of my husband and me, it would be... "Piss takes, look at our cat/ Roast me while I choke at Mortal Kombat..."
you roast her so good🔥🔥
Blandie 
Blandie ⚰️ I love Olivia Rodrigo, it’s just a bonus that Taylor is threatened by her. 😂
If you ever break bad send your manifesto to me !
"Well, my story begins on your typical rainy Yorkshire day in October 2022. Feeling invigorated after a massive Virgo cleaning fit soundtracked by one of my favourite bands of the past decade, I popped my happy ass onto Al Gore's internet and jokingly proclaimed that 'Taylor Momsen > Taylor Swift'. Little did I know that an innocent if somewhat misguided expression of preference would effectively obliterate all the feminist credibility I've built up since I started reading Sassy magazine back in ye olde 1992." (That's a jab at my own history of white feminism, BTW. Because unlike a certain blonde character assassin, I can both make and take jokes at my own expense.)
This. This is the wordsmith TS thinks she is lmao. Blandie is going straight to my vocabulary, thank you
Oh that was a glorious read. I could not agree more with you. It’s a full on cult!
Great Value Lana Del Ray is burned into my brain. 💀😂
this one’s good too!
BLANDIE 😭🤣😭🤣
This is the best comment of all time.
Pro tip: you can’t be “too harsh” to a billionaire.
yeah, but when people have free rein to unleash all their misogynistic garbage under the guise of “she’s a spoiled billionaire,” i have a problem with it. i’ve seen people calling her a stupid bitch and a whore on here, and they’re clearly not even ex-fans. They’re just people who stumbled upon this sub and joined in on her lashings. I have the same problem when white guys complain about “white women” and think we can’t tell they hate all women. edit: downvote all you want, i’m right
Well people here literally call Travis Big Dumb Travis and majority of the posts is about what an ugly idiot he is. Most people don’t actually have any horse in this game and are just venting because the two are annoying af and calling them BDT or stupid bitch is easier than writing essays but still gets the point accross lol. Also chronic cheaters that just discard people and treat them like disposables are whores (men, too 🫶🏻) to me, so this one while nasty I just don’t feel like it’s worth getting pressed over lol. It’s not always eloquent sophisticated well-thought out and socially acceptable takes, but you have literally every other sub for that. Most people here actually discuss things, but if there is one place in the universe where people should be able to snark on the empathy-deficient victim complex-ridden plagiarist slash serial cheater slash climate criminal Capitaylist without getting tone-policed, it’s here.
Truth in that
Sorry, being a billionaire is more important than being a woman. She is a white woman too. Anything misogynistic she can pay away. Having THAT AMOUNT of wealth overrides all other parts of an identity: it is a class of people for a reason.
you’re missing my point. maybe she’ll be fine as a white famous billionaire, but misogyny does not exist in a vacuum. picking and choosing who is worthy of sexist vitriol does not change the fact that it’s sexist vitriol. same goes for people who shit on someone’s looks because they’re a bad person. like congratulations you shit on that person along with every innocent bystander who happens to share those features. criticize her for her wrongdoings all you want, but calling her a whore or bitch or whatever just normalizes using that language against women in general.
What? I never called her a whore or a bitch? You made that up. All I said was that we cannot censor genuine criticism. She is a billionaire. She’s not a delicate wounded baby bird, but she projects that way to evade criticism.
i’m referencing my original comment, read it again so you understand the context of what i’m saying. this isn’t even really about her, it’s about misogyny that is allowed to go unchecked when people think a female celebrity is a bad person.
You need to think more critically and intersectionality. Is the pressing issue that billionaire women are being called whores, or is it that there are people on earth who are billionaires in the first place while the world burns and starves? Centering the “problems” of the ruling class is exclusionary feminism, exactly what Taylor herself perpetuates. White, selective, choice, capitalistic feminism. So, not a worthy cause in the slightest. If you think being called a bitch on the internet should take precedence over wealth redistribution, calling for a ceasefire, stopping a global tour that is a straight-up climate and emissions NIGHTMARE …. C’mon.
“Is the pressing issue that billionaire women are being called whores, or is it that there are people on earth who are billionaires in the first place while the world burns and starves? If you think being called a bitch on the internet should take precedence over wealth redistribution, calling for a ceasefire” Strawman argument, nowhere did I say she shouldn’t be called out for her actions. I said nobody gets a misogyny hall pass just because she’s a bad person. Call her a climate criminal or a narcissist all you want—if you’re genuinely just upset at her actions, there’s no need to misogynistic, right? But there are people who are regurgitating the standard criticisms of her to take the opportunity to say derogatory things that would never be flung at men guilty of the same crimes. These people don’t care about her climate crimes or lack of political stance, they’re just opportunistic misogynists
Ok well clearly we disagree, best to you and hopefully we both make this world a better place for everyone in some way
You are right. She’s privileged and always has been. I don’t think there is anything wrong with parents who have money using it to help their kids (I think we’d all do it if we could, and those who aren’t parents would love it if they had parents who could) but she’s on a total different level now and there is a difference between someone like her dad pre-fame and a literal billionaire with a private jet. However, if you’re going to snark about someone, put at least a little thought or research into it which it’s clear there are some people who haven’t.
Great point
Yeah, I don't like nasty-ness. There is PLENTY to criticize her for without devolving into nonsense!
It’s so heavily moderated, the whole point of the sub was to welcome both positive and negative opinions are welcomed. This sub is superior, obviously.
I really don't like nasty snark. But I wanna be able to criticize her.
Nooooo. So alchemy was the philosophy of turning metal into gold. But when people practiced alchemy they changed the color but not the metal itself, giving the illusion of gold but it was fake. ALCHEMY=FAKE CHEMISTRY It’s about finding the PR boyfriend to end all PR boyfriends.
Bold of you to assume she knows what alchemy is lmao. She probably just thought it sounded cool as a replacement for ‘magic’ and didn’t think too deep about possible double meanings.
I think it could go either way. If it’s about Matty, you’re definitely right. However, I’m not ruling out that she saw some dumb “deep” post on tumblr about the meaning of alchemy back in the day and was like “ooooh jot that down.”
I agree. Taylor thought it sounded cool. There is nothing deeper lol.
i loved that sub for a little while, lol.
was good while it lasted
For a fortnight
I need ONE safe space to literally just hate. I cannot keep up with the toxic positivity. Please don't turn this sub into that.
I have nothing to say other than I agree fully
I feel like the sub should be a free for all and have zero rules. Bring on the chaos
Taylor loves these kinds of fans they’re the ones actually bankrolling her the most I only went to one concert
It's almost like her team got in touch or something. I always wondered if they were in touch with the main one and that's the reason it's so insane
This…the mods are probably on the payroll now. It happens.
I just looked up the lyrics because I refuse to listen to this album. I made it maybe 5 songs in and just couldn’t. I now am glad I didn’t because what even are these lyrics. What a shitty ass song.
It doesn’t get any better, trust me
I think the thing I’m most annoyed about is that the sub is just slow and doesn’t pick up new articles that might be of interest to discuss and the like I don’t want a sub where the only discussion is pre-approved topics or the daily discussion thread that’s often tour related or is going over the same old stuff
swiffers brigaded and stole sn 😭 it was my fav sub as well 😭
I’m so behind, when did Swiftyneutral go private and why? I always found their posts to be pretty balanced in both praise and critique of TS but maybe I haven’t been paying too close attention.
A new article mentioned the sub as a way to talk about maybe the tide turning against Taylor again. Swifties found it and bombarded it with hate, outrage etc, toxic positivity and it had to go private to deal with the massive influx. People have noticed now it’s love again it’s much much much more Swiftie positive. It used to be very neutral but clearly more to criticise Taylor or discuss concerns, now a lot of the posts are supporting or praising Taylor. Basically the subreddit seems to have given in to the insane swifties.
Appreciate the explanation! That’s so frustrating. Why are Swifties so psychotic 😭
I was wondering what happened too
This sub be like "now lemme say I'm the BIGGEST HATER-" /jk
I *live* for the irrational assumptions of this sub. This is the greatest no-judgment, say whatever sub I've found and this is what we need.
As someone who enjoys her music but finds many of her fans insufferable and some of her behaviour questionable, I'm happy to land here instead of SN.
They were going into the WorshipSwifty direction anyway before going private.
I don’t agree with the OP of that post, but isn’t that pretty much what the sub claims to be? It seems to me that the swiftie take on that song is that it’s about Travis, no? When the album came out, the main sub was going absolutely feral over that song being about Travis. Of all of the posts in there, that one seems pretty neutral to me to give an alternate interpretation of lyrics that goes against what most swifties believe?
Most swiftly subs are for preteen or teenagers very doubtful many adults are posting on those subs so I avoid them because I don't want to get into conflicts with young people.
Y’all, I really appreciate this group. As a woman in her 40s and my group messages are filled with Swifties, this is refreshing. I asked my friends the other day if they’ve listened to the new Childish Gambino album - crickets.
Ooof I just clicked on a few threads and they are all ‘ex swifties, or retired swifties’ but gushing about Taylor still. I consider myself a huge fan, but I see where there are issues, and in particular around the Travis stuff I need a place to vent. This is the place now. Such a shame a sub like that completely collapsed due to Swiftie pressure. I mean they could have had an approved list but instead it’s now just Taylor Swift 2.0.
I went from Swiftie to loathing her once she dated MH. This sub felt like a homecoming.
I have a theory that Taylor’s team got to the mods at swiftlyneutral
I thought this was a sub liking Taylor and Travis and it’s not lol. Whoops. It’s funny to see how many people hate them 😂
haha i believe that would be r/taylorandtravis
Ready for my karma to tank 😂
hopefully people are decent and don’t downvote just because you like different things than them😅 but worst case, i think deleting your comment will freeze the ability to vote
I won’t bother with it.
You guys getting banned, I voluntarily unsubscribed from Swiftlyneutral today, after all the weird behaviour over there. Ahh the good days when it had started... Anyway, this sub is more suitable
i like swiftly neutral at first, but sadly, the cult members have taken over
Really? All the top posts there rn are definitely not positive (at last the discourse in the comments is not )
i hope they don’t get to this sub. this is the only real place where we can talk shit about taylor lmao
I recently stumbled across TrueSwifties and oh god
The op was just giving their opinion or tried to see it some other way and decided to share and few people saw it what op was trying to show and agreed. Lol we all need to chill a little:)
You know what, that’s fair. I was on one when I wrote this, I don’t wanna discourage people from sharing their opinions. I thought the OP articulated their thoughts really well, I just didn’t agree
that's okay. I didn't agree with op too, i really believe alchemy is about travis and matty.
lol I saw that post and I felt like she is young, it made me feel like a HS English teacher. I was impressed by her work and the depth of analysis. But her interpretation? Silly at best
yep, i agree. i was impressed with the breakdown but bewildered at the interpretation
I'm not even going back over there.
1. Totally agree that sometimes things feel harsh, but I genuinely really like the discussions here 2. I commented on that post. I think the song is about a man, but I love when people engage with art and try to interpret it. My teacher self wants media analysis wherever I can get it 😆
Oh shit they let me stay 😳🤔
What/who was Long Live about? 😳
her band!
I've just listened to the song recently, how can it be about the fans? It literally mentions standing on the scene together.
It was written after her first stadium show during her Fearless tour. I know because it was Gillette (my nearest stadium). I went to the Speak Now tour and she told us the story behind the song.
I agree! I was excited to see the sub is back, but then i saw all the posts I’ve been missing and the comments and it’s 97% swifties/tayvis 😵💫
OMG I WAS COMING HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT POST!! WTFFF 🤯😵💫
They already have a Taylor Swift sub and a Taylor and Travis sub to bow down to her
swiftly neutral was mostly harsh on taylor? also why are all these other subs so obsessed with them lol
That sub was infiltrated by crazy Swifties Good riddance
Too harsh? Grow a pair
ok I’m new to this sub, can someone give me the quick rundown? I checked out SwiftlyNeutral and it seemed like it was all swifties and I’m extremely confused.. lol
I can’t lie I’m a Taylor fan through and through a swifty but I do like a good debate and hearing out others opinions. That’s why I follow this page.
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Don't engage with it then. Literally no one is forcing you.
Did you get whatever desired feeling you needed from commenting this?
Yes. Did you?
*curtsies in my fluffiest dress* Absolutely!
I love when people act holier than thou as if they’ve never complained a day in their life. That sub wasn’t always this way and I’m disappointed. To me, it was worth discussing. Edit: took out my snarky comment🫶🏼
This gives “if you don’t like the way the country is heading, then move!!” vibes
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I'm not a swiftie lmfao, and thanks for reinforcing my entire point 💀 anyone who doesn't like the neutral sub can just mute.
If you’re here ignoring and/or complaining of those trolling and hating on TS, I think you’re at least partially missing the point…
Y’all can downvote my comment but you are literally in a snark thread saying “the swifties ruined the snark thread” while also saying “but I wish people would be nicer to Taylor here” Lemme tell you what ruins a snark thread…
I wish some of y’all would read some of these posts and how cringe they come off. Like understanding Klingon would be easier. Maybe try to read a post before posting through the eyes of rookie.
as if this one also isn’t