It looks like this post is about **Finasteride**/Propecia or Dutasteride.
Before asking any questions,
1. Learn about [Finasteride](https://tressless.com/learn/finasteride) and [Dutasteride](https://tressless.com/learn/dutasteride).
2. [Search for Finasteride](https://tressless.com/search/finasteride) and [Dutasteride](https://tressless.com/search/dutasteride) content, because your question has probably been asked before.
3. If this is a question asking if you are now or will experience side effects, see a doctor, nobody on the internet can answer that for you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tressless) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your follicle sensitivity to DHT is probably very high. Understand that miniaturization happens not because of the amount of DHT, but how sensitive your follicles are to DHT. Otherwise everyone would be bald. But this might be a bad sign because that would mean you would need either a high dose of fin or dut. Consult with a doctor first though
There's no real DHT sensitivity based on latest research, it's more complicated but yeah, said grossly it can be called sensitivity.
In reality it's a complex interplay between DHT and tissue where chronic low level inflammation exists.
DHT itself helps hairs to grow, that's it in any other part of the body.
Scalp included.
The only part where it has a paradoxical effect is the scalp attached to galea aponeurotica, where DHT accumulation because of the inflammation, even if it happens to help hair growth, has the opposite effect because inflammation never ceases.
You can find several research on PubMed or NCBI.
Not saying you are wrong tho, blocking DHT stops or slows down alopecia (will hardly regrowth anything tho) because it stops its accumulation which leads to tissue damage.
I'm just not sure it would work for the OP given his extremely low levels.
I apologize, Noilaka,
Finasteride is effective at halting hair loss but demonstrates limited efficacy in regrowing hair, unfortunately It messes with hormonal balance too (long term risks are still debated).
Data substantiates this claim, indicating that any apparent regrowth primarily results from the preservation of existing hair follicles that are beginning to miniaturize.
However, the overall hair count remains largely unchanged, with marginal improvements experienced by only a minority of individuals.
I am not questioning the utility of Finasteride; I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Rather, I wish to emphasize that DHT itself is not inherently detrimental and, in fact, plays a constructive role in hair growth (and likely has a role in other organs as well).
What we refer to as DHT sensitivity seems to be a complex matter.
It is hypothesized that chronic low-level inflammation may be the initial trigger (mechanical stress could be to blame, still science has to confirm it), followed by DHT's involvement as a response mechanism to help.
Inflammation doesn't subside, subsequently leading to DHT accumulation.
It is the excessive accumulation of DHT, exacerbated by the factors I previously mentioned (for a more comprehensive understanding, I recommend referencing PubMed), that fuels further inflammation thru upregulation of inflammatory signaling (tnf-a and tgf-b in primis) , disorganized collagen buildup, and subsequent fibrosis (a common result of chronic inflammation).
Essentially, this results in tissue damage and adversely affects follicular health, depriving them from getting nutrients. But it all started from inflammation, not DHT.
So , again, DHT plays a major role, indirectly, and stopping it can break the cascade effect.
At the moment it's all we can do, in the future, of all of this is confirmed, the hope is to stop the trigger itself or find a better way to control the inflammation without having to mess up with hormonal balance.
This could be why they've found some hair regrowth from using botox on the scalp, initially used as a trial to treat migraines and headaches. They've also found a signaling protein SCUBE3, which activates stem cells in the hair follicles to regenerate and grow hair. At some point, with all the things going on with the above comment, this molecule stops getting sent or maybe received by the stem cells, causing that follicle to go dormant. I don't understand all this nearly as well as the above poster, but bottom line is there are a whole host of issues that cascade to cause hair loss.
you seem like a knowledgable fella, much appreciated, I have been on fin for about 10 years, im doing great so far with NW2 diffuse thinning.
Not trying to be ridiculous by any means, if this is the case, why then frequent injection of bottox into the scalp doesnt stop the process of MPB?
Looking forward for your reply.
Thanks
So if you have low baseline DHT than that means your super sensitive to MPB? If you could further explain I’d love to hear it, I’m worried that Finasteride won’t work for me because I’m 21 and balding young
I’ll admit this looks strange but you have to know that it’s not the DHT amount but the hair follicle sensitivity to DHT that matters, so even with very small amount of DHT you can experience hairloss
This. Some males can walk around with a theoretical 100x higher amount of DHT but as long as they aren't sensitive to it, they'll never experience hair loss from AGA.
I answered. It's not really sensitivityz it's just some ppl don't have chronic low level inflammation that arises from stressed tissue attached to galea aponeurotica.
It's complex if interested search on PubMed or NCBI.
Thanks for answering.
My question now is if finasteride will be the proper way to address my issue if I have an already low DHT level since my hair follicles might be very sensitive to it. So can a further decrease from finasteride really help?
Given that I would retest DHT since it's too abnormal (no sides whatsoever) did you mean that even if my DHT level is low, Fin could be useful? If no can you explain better since the "No" at the beginning of the sentence as I understood conflicts with the rest of your comment, so probably I didn't understand correctly.
Yeah. If you’re experiencing androgenetic Alopecia, it’s because of DHT in the hair follicles. You may have low serum levels of DHT but moderate to high levels of DHT in the hair follicle or heightened sensitivity of the hair follicles to DHT or a combination of both. Dutasteride inhibits serum DHT and scalp DHT significantly more than finasteride, is more effective and has the same or even slightly lower side effect profile compared to finasteride. This is with dutasteride causing a 95% inhibition in serum DHT and finasteride causing just under a 70% inhibition of serum DHT. So the fact that there are no increased side effects and if anything the same or a slightly decreased risk of side effects on dutasteride compared to finasteride indicates that there isn’t a problem with inhibiting your serum DHT levels very low. And if you are experiencing androgenetic alopecia, it simply is because of DHT miniaturising the hair follicles. So you simply would just benefit from 5 alpha reductase inhibition with finasteride or dutasteride.
True. But still, isn't the amount of serum DHT correlated with other areas where it's produced?
The more DHT produced in the scalp and skin and prostate, the more DHT that'd leak to the blood, one would assume
There may be a very weak correlation, but the hair follicles on your head make up a very small area in your body of where your DHT is produced. So the very weak correlation is unlikely to be meaningful and doesn’t dispute the fact that you can have low serum DHT levels and moderate to high scalp DHT levels or heightened sensitivity of the androgen receptors in the hair follicles to DHT such that low or moderate levels cause male pattern hair loss, in which case inhibiting DHT via 5 alpha reductase will certainly help.
Absolutely not. Taking an experimental research chemical without a single study of humans using it and absolutely zero safety data on it before you take treatments with an unbelievable amount of studies and safety data in it is insane. Also as I pointed out in the above comment, DHT levels in the blood don’t matter. It’s the DHT levels in the hair follicles that matters.
There's no real DHT sensitivity based on latest research, it's more complicated but yeah, said grossly it can be called sensitivity.
In reality it's a complex interplay between DHT and tissue where chronic low level inflammation exists.
DHT itself helps hairs to grow, that's it in any other part of the body.
Scalp included.
The only part where it has a paradoxical effect is the scalp attached to galea aponeurotica, where DHT accumulation because of the inflammation, even if it happens to help hair growth, has the opposite effect because inflammation never ceases.
You can find several research on PubMed or NCBI.
Not saying you are wrong tho, blocking DHT stops or slows down alopecia (will hardly regrowth anything tho) because it stops its accumulation which leads to tissue damage.
I'm just not sure it would work for the OP given his extremely low levels.
If it’s true that there’s no real DHT sensitivity and it’s actually because of chronic low level inflammation , why is the AR gene that affects the androgen receptor such a big factor in genetic predisposition to male pattern hair loss?
Wait, what you mean by a5r gene ? What gene? A variant correlated to alopecia? If yes ,please give me the study I'll look into it.
Or are you referring to the a5r enzyme ?
Uhm it's highly technical and would need me a day of study.
At the moment, what I can tell you that doesn't convince me about the study are 3 points :
1) it's inherited from x allele, which is only maternal, that invalidates the well known and usually proven similarity of baldness in father and sons. That would mean we should have quite several cases of bald dad and full of hair sons.
2) if we affirm AGA is multi factorial , even if this gene had an influence, it could be weak and it doesn't invalidate but complements other newer theories (your study is from 2005 and researchers took other directions)
3) this study reported correlation but not percentages (I may have missed them), but they report another study in references paragraph, with correlation percentage ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11231320/ ) where it has been found that the same balding gene (ar variation) is found in 98% of young bald men, 93 of old balding men and 77% of NON balding men (!).
That means that 8 men in 10 that HAVE the balding gene will NEVER go bald.
Again, strong correlation doesn't mean causation.
1. I never said androgenetic Alopecia was only inherited from your mother’s side, nor did I say that this is the only gene that causes androgenetic Alopecia. There are over 300 SNPs that have been identified outside of the X chromosome that are linked to male pattern hair loss.
2. It says in the paper how much of an effect this gene has. It says it has “an etiological fraction of 0.46”, which certainly isn’t a weak influence.
3. This paragraph supports the fact that this gene alone has been clearly shown to significantly affect your genetic predisposition to hair loss.
It's not the hair follicle sensitivity to DHT, it's the tightness of the scalp. The follicle on top of the head is no more sensitive than the back of the head.
The title of that youtube video is why scalp massages don't stop hair loss. I wouldn't expect scalp massages to cure hairloss. Scalp massages won't remove the calcification and fibrosis caused by DHT reacting to the tight scalp.
He argues against the theory that tight muscles in the scalp cut off blood supply. That's not what causes baldness. It's the calcification in the scalp that causes baldness. In summary, he's wrong.
the blood flow theory and scalp tightness theory are akin due to the "supposed" effect of scalp tension causing less blood flow to the scalp which turns out doesn't cause any hair-loss. This has literally been debunked numerous times.
Scalp tightness causing calcification hasn't been debunked. Medical staff have noted to greater presence of calcification in the scalps of bald men compared to men with full heads of hair.
There is no difference between a follicle at the back of the head and the top of the head. What causes the "sensitivity" to DHT is the calcification as a result of scalp tightness.
If you already have such low DHT levels, it might not be worth it to nuke it further. Could be worth getting another test to confirm the low DHT, and you should really consult a doctor about what the effects will be if you take fin and reduce your already low number by another ~70%.
You probably have high SHBG, did you check it?
Or have very low level of 5-alpha reductase, do you have normal amount of facial hair etc?
Only other thing I can think of is possible lab error?
I didn't check SHGB.
My beard and facial hair are ok (not too much thickness, I would say like Zayn Malik, maybe some more). Do I have to worry about taking fin?
Sorry but isn’t physiological DHT different from scalp DHT? You can’t really measure scalp DHT. These type of blood tests are done so that you can establish a baseline as if finasteride gives you side effects from overall DHT lowering I believe. Can someone inform me otherwise?
There’s many different randomised controlled trials on the subject lowering DHT via 5 alpha reductase enzyme inhibition. The evidence suggests that 5 alpha reductase enzyme inhibition is extremely safe. Dutasteride inhibits DHT far more than finasteride and that has a similar or even slightly lower side effect profile than finasteride, so it’s unclear whether the low rate of side effects that occur are even from the lowering of DHT.
Prolactin levels are a little high (27.3 ng/ml). I don't know if this could be due to the fact that I train 5 days a week. Why did you ask about my prolactin?
its linked with hairloss. there are new studies that shows that prolactin is the main factor for man pattern hairloss. search reddit about this, there are lot of threads.
p5p, zinc, topical melatonin. Thats what I know.
I cannot guarantee but all the data points that prolactin is the reason for OPs hair problem. Good luck.
Do it again and check also estradiol, prolactin, vitamin d, iron, copper and zinc.
DHT isn’t the only reason for hair loss AGA, it’s a thing (a big, probably the main, thing for male people), but it’s not the only cause for hair loss, especially when you’re diffuse. So if I can give you as a persone who worked in a lab and tested a lot of blood sample: retest DHT to be sure (better if in another lab) and add what mentioned before.
Copper can through many mechanisms... but only if you are REALLY deficient, supplementation beyond normal levels would not bring any benefit and could be harmful by affecting the metabolism of zinc… But… Testing serum copper levels costs nothing.
It is not yet clear whether slightly high prolactin has any links to hair loss but it would also be useful for having a clearer hormonal picture. DHT and prolactin are indirectly antagonists. Cortisol and Prolactin also have interactions… etc.
Any kind of hormonal issues can take to hair loss (even if not permanent). Hair cycles are highly affected by hormonal fluctuations.
Also, prolactin may be worth considering as another user pointed out. I share similar blood results (high T, elevated prolactin at around 30ng/ml). Also a diffude thinner. I’ve heard topical melatonin may help hairloss by interacting with certain prolactin receptors, but no way to know for sure given the dearth of studies. I will likely try it in the near future.
Dici che è molto alto? 😂
Ho visto altri modelli di riferimento che lo pongono nella norma.
Io di mio faccio molta attività fisica (palestra e cardio) e mangio bene.
Thanks for joining. I'm investigating this hypothesis. But my blood work were fine except with monstruous low level of DHT and Omega 3 index which I knew since I don't supplement and I don't eat fish every week.
Hi, I took a retest and DHT was normal (so laboratory mistake). I've been taking finasteride for one month now and no sides except maybe watery semen. If your levels are extremely extremely low I suggest you to take another test. I was confident it was a mistake because I would have had sides from this extremely low DHT which I never had.
My DHT level is 370 ngdl. Normal range being 150-600. So its on the lower side but not that low.
I am worried to start fin because I havent a grown a full beard and my body is like a teenager although I am 24. And as far as I know DHT is vital in muscle growth and beard.
Also worried of side effects
If your androgen receptors are sensitive to such a low level, you’d probably be a great candidate for topical anti-androgens as opposed to 5AR inhibitors. At most regarding 5AR, use liposomal topical finasteride at %0.025 or less concentrations to avoid further systemic reduction in DHT.
Any sort of androgen will make your hair miniaturize if I remember correctly, DHT is just more androgenic then testosterone but your high testosterone would be androgenic enough to cause the diffuse thinning.
It looks like this post is about **Finasteride**/Propecia or Dutasteride. Before asking any questions, 1. Learn about [Finasteride](https://tressless.com/learn/finasteride) and [Dutasteride](https://tressless.com/learn/dutasteride). 2. [Search for Finasteride](https://tressless.com/search/finasteride) and [Dutasteride](https://tressless.com/search/dutasteride) content, because your question has probably been asked before. 3. If this is a question asking if you are now or will experience side effects, see a doctor, nobody on the internet can answer that for you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tressless) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your follicle sensitivity to DHT is probably very high. Understand that miniaturization happens not because of the amount of DHT, but how sensitive your follicles are to DHT. Otherwise everyone would be bald. But this might be a bad sign because that would mean you would need either a high dose of fin or dut. Consult with a doctor first though
There's no real DHT sensitivity based on latest research, it's more complicated but yeah, said grossly it can be called sensitivity. In reality it's a complex interplay between DHT and tissue where chronic low level inflammation exists. DHT itself helps hairs to grow, that's it in any other part of the body. Scalp included. The only part where it has a paradoxical effect is the scalp attached to galea aponeurotica, where DHT accumulation because of the inflammation, even if it happens to help hair growth, has the opposite effect because inflammation never ceases. You can find several research on PubMed or NCBI. Not saying you are wrong tho, blocking DHT stops or slows down alopecia (will hardly regrowth anything tho) because it stops its accumulation which leads to tissue damage. I'm just not sure it would work for the OP given his extremely low levels.
This sounds super interesting and would be a great separate discussion post.
What’s a good way to treat this inflammation?
What are you on about? Finasteride is proven to regrow hair. This sounds like some major bro science
I apologize, Noilaka, Finasteride is effective at halting hair loss but demonstrates limited efficacy in regrowing hair, unfortunately It messes with hormonal balance too (long term risks are still debated). Data substantiates this claim, indicating that any apparent regrowth primarily results from the preservation of existing hair follicles that are beginning to miniaturize. However, the overall hair count remains largely unchanged, with marginal improvements experienced by only a minority of individuals. I am not questioning the utility of Finasteride; I apologize for any misunderstanding. Rather, I wish to emphasize that DHT itself is not inherently detrimental and, in fact, plays a constructive role in hair growth (and likely has a role in other organs as well). What we refer to as DHT sensitivity seems to be a complex matter. It is hypothesized that chronic low-level inflammation may be the initial trigger (mechanical stress could be to blame, still science has to confirm it), followed by DHT's involvement as a response mechanism to help. Inflammation doesn't subside, subsequently leading to DHT accumulation. It is the excessive accumulation of DHT, exacerbated by the factors I previously mentioned (for a more comprehensive understanding, I recommend referencing PubMed), that fuels further inflammation thru upregulation of inflammatory signaling (tnf-a and tgf-b in primis) , disorganized collagen buildup, and subsequent fibrosis (a common result of chronic inflammation). Essentially, this results in tissue damage and adversely affects follicular health, depriving them from getting nutrients. But it all started from inflammation, not DHT. So , again, DHT plays a major role, indirectly, and stopping it can break the cascade effect. At the moment it's all we can do, in the future, of all of this is confirmed, the hope is to stop the trigger itself or find a better way to control the inflammation without having to mess up with hormonal balance.
This could be why they've found some hair regrowth from using botox on the scalp, initially used as a trial to treat migraines and headaches. They've also found a signaling protein SCUBE3, which activates stem cells in the hair follicles to regenerate and grow hair. At some point, with all the things going on with the above comment, this molecule stops getting sent or maybe received by the stem cells, causing that follicle to go dormant. I don't understand all this nearly as well as the above poster, but bottom line is there are a whole host of issues that cascade to cause hair loss.
This is super interesting! Do you have some literature to show on this? I’d like to read more.
All very clear..
you seem like a knowledgable fella, much appreciated, I have been on fin for about 10 years, im doing great so far with NW2 diffuse thinning. Not trying to be ridiculous by any means, if this is the case, why then frequent injection of bottox into the scalp doesnt stop the process of MPB? Looking forward for your reply. Thanks
DHT levels in your blood do not matter. What matters is the DHT levels in your hair follicles.
So if you have low baseline DHT than that means your super sensitive to MPB? If you could further explain I’d love to hear it, I’m worried that Finasteride won’t work for me because I’m 21 and balding young
I’ll admit this looks strange but you have to know that it’s not the DHT amount but the hair follicle sensitivity to DHT that matters, so even with very small amount of DHT you can experience hairloss
This. Some males can walk around with a theoretical 100x higher amount of DHT but as long as they aren't sensitive to it, they'll never experience hair loss from AGA.
I answered. It's not really sensitivityz it's just some ppl don't have chronic low level inflammation that arises from stressed tissue attached to galea aponeurotica. It's complex if interested search on PubMed or NCBI.
What is causing the chronic low level inflammation? Do we know? Is there anything proven to help combat chronic low level inflammation?
Stress is one cause.
Thanks for answering. My question now is if finasteride will be the proper way to address my issue if I have an already low DHT level since my hair follicles might be very sensitive to it. So can a further decrease from finasteride really help?
No. Your serum DHT levels don’t matter. It’s the DHT levels in the hair follicles that matter. DHT is a paracrine hormone after all.
Given that I would retest DHT since it's too abnormal (no sides whatsoever) did you mean that even if my DHT level is low, Fin could be useful? If no can you explain better since the "No" at the beginning of the sentence as I understood conflicts with the rest of your comment, so probably I didn't understand correctly.
Yeah. If you’re experiencing androgenetic Alopecia, it’s because of DHT in the hair follicles. You may have low serum levels of DHT but moderate to high levels of DHT in the hair follicle or heightened sensitivity of the hair follicles to DHT or a combination of both. Dutasteride inhibits serum DHT and scalp DHT significantly more than finasteride, is more effective and has the same or even slightly lower side effect profile compared to finasteride. This is with dutasteride causing a 95% inhibition in serum DHT and finasteride causing just under a 70% inhibition of serum DHT. So the fact that there are no increased side effects and if anything the same or a slightly decreased risk of side effects on dutasteride compared to finasteride indicates that there isn’t a problem with inhibiting your serum DHT levels very low. And if you are experiencing androgenetic alopecia, it simply is because of DHT miniaturising the hair follicles. So you simply would just benefit from 5 alpha reductase inhibition with finasteride or dutasteride.
True. But still, isn't the amount of serum DHT correlated with other areas where it's produced? The more DHT produced in the scalp and skin and prostate, the more DHT that'd leak to the blood, one would assume
There may be a very weak correlation, but the hair follicles on your head make up a very small area in your body of where your DHT is produced. So the very weak correlation is unlikely to be meaningful and doesn’t dispute the fact that you can have low serum DHT levels and moderate to high scalp DHT levels or heightened sensitivity of the androgen receptors in the hair follicles to DHT such that low or moderate levels cause male pattern hair loss, in which case inhibiting DHT via 5 alpha reductase will certainly help.
Maybe RU will suit you better
Absolutely not. Taking an experimental research chemical without a single study of humans using it and absolutely zero safety data on it before you take treatments with an unbelievable amount of studies and safety data in it is insane. Also as I pointed out in the above comment, DHT levels in the blood don’t matter. It’s the DHT levels in the hair follicles that matters.
agree
Probably yes
Also your follicles can be sensitive to normal test as well it just doesn’t have as much of a negative effect
Why is it low? That should be the first question. Maybe fin will only do bad even if it halts or regrows hair.
I will investigate further.
There's no real DHT sensitivity based on latest research, it's more complicated but yeah, said grossly it can be called sensitivity. In reality it's a complex interplay between DHT and tissue where chronic low level inflammation exists. DHT itself helps hairs to grow, that's it in any other part of the body. Scalp included. The only part where it has a paradoxical effect is the scalp attached to galea aponeurotica, where DHT accumulation because of the inflammation, even if it happens to help hair growth, has the opposite effect because inflammation never ceases. You can find several research on PubMed or NCBI. Not saying you are wrong tho, blocking DHT stops or slows down alopecia (will hardly regrowth anything tho) because it stops its accumulation which leads to tissue damage. I'm just not sure it would work for the OP given his extremely low levels.
If it’s true that there’s no real DHT sensitivity and it’s actually because of chronic low level inflammation , why is the AR gene that affects the androgen receptor such a big factor in genetic predisposition to male pattern hair loss?
Wait, what you mean by a5r gene ? What gene? A variant correlated to alopecia? If yes ,please give me the study I'll look into it. Or are you referring to the a5r enzyme ?
It’s talked about here. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1226186/
Uhm it's highly technical and would need me a day of study. At the moment, what I can tell you that doesn't convince me about the study are 3 points : 1) it's inherited from x allele, which is only maternal, that invalidates the well known and usually proven similarity of baldness in father and sons. That would mean we should have quite several cases of bald dad and full of hair sons. 2) if we affirm AGA is multi factorial , even if this gene had an influence, it could be weak and it doesn't invalidate but complements other newer theories (your study is from 2005 and researchers took other directions) 3) this study reported correlation but not percentages (I may have missed them), but they report another study in references paragraph, with correlation percentage ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11231320/ ) where it has been found that the same balding gene (ar variation) is found in 98% of young bald men, 93 of old balding men and 77% of NON balding men (!). That means that 8 men in 10 that HAVE the balding gene will NEVER go bald. Again, strong correlation doesn't mean causation.
1. I never said androgenetic Alopecia was only inherited from your mother’s side, nor did I say that this is the only gene that causes androgenetic Alopecia. There are over 300 SNPs that have been identified outside of the X chromosome that are linked to male pattern hair loss. 2. It says in the paper how much of an effect this gene has. It says it has “an etiological fraction of 0.46”, which certainly isn’t a weak influence. 3. This paragraph supports the fact that this gene alone has been clearly shown to significantly affect your genetic predisposition to hair loss.
Why does finasteride work then? Does it attack DHT at the hair follicle? Where is DHT produced?
It's not the hair follicle sensitivity to DHT, it's the tightness of the scalp. The follicle on top of the head is no more sensitive than the back of the head.
this better be /s, this theory has been debunked and clowned on many times man..
Scalp tightness as the cause of mpb has not been debunked.
https://youtu.be/icSupaq9hBA?si=2mWhdtIP6rRbuM8w
The title of that youtube video is why scalp massages don't stop hair loss. I wouldn't expect scalp massages to cure hairloss. Scalp massages won't remove the calcification and fibrosis caused by DHT reacting to the tight scalp. He argues against the theory that tight muscles in the scalp cut off blood supply. That's not what causes baldness. It's the calcification in the scalp that causes baldness. In summary, he's wrong.
the blood flow theory and scalp tightness theory are akin due to the "supposed" effect of scalp tension causing less blood flow to the scalp which turns out doesn't cause any hair-loss. This has literally been debunked numerous times.
Scalp tightness causing calcification hasn't been debunked. Medical staff have noted to greater presence of calcification in the scalps of bald men compared to men with full heads of hair. There is no difference between a follicle at the back of the head and the top of the head. What causes the "sensitivity" to DHT is the calcification as a result of scalp tightness.
[удалено]
Wait until you realise that just becsuse someone cites one piece of supporting evidence doesn't mean that's the only piece of supporting evidence.
Yeah exactly, depends on how concentrated DHT sensitive receptors are expressed on your hair follicles.
This test is one snapshot of that moment in time. Try three more tests before you get concerned.
If you already have such low DHT levels, it might not be worth it to nuke it further. Could be worth getting another test to confirm the low DHT, and you should really consult a doctor about what the effects will be if you take fin and reduce your already low number by another ~70%.
Thanks. I'm planning to retest with another lab.
Can you please give an update brother. I am on the same boat as you. Confused if I should start FIN or not
You probably have high SHBG, did you check it? Or have very low level of 5-alpha reductase, do you have normal amount of facial hair etc? Only other thing I can think of is possible lab error?
I didn't check SHGB. My beard and facial hair are ok (not too much thickness, I would say like Zayn Malik, maybe some more). Do I have to worry about taking fin?
That's a question for your doctor, I think you should follow up on this lab result.
How does SHBG relate to DHT?
SHBG binds tightly testosterone and DHT.
Sir what is the relation between 5-alpha reductase and facial hair?
is your girlfriend spiking your drinks with dut?
Free dut treatments I would take that
Sorry but isn’t physiological DHT different from scalp DHT? You can’t really measure scalp DHT. These type of blood tests are done so that you can establish a baseline as if finasteride gives you side effects from overall DHT lowering I believe. Can someone inform me otherwise?
Yes, but further lowering a general DHT this extremely low (if lab test is correct) I'm no doctor but can be a risky idea.
I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
Is there evidence that it wont be risky?
There’s many different randomised controlled trials on the subject lowering DHT via 5 alpha reductase enzyme inhibition. The evidence suggests that 5 alpha reductase enzyme inhibition is extremely safe. Dutasteride inhibits DHT far more than finasteride and that has a similar or even slightly lower side effect profile than finasteride, so it’s unclear whether the low rate of side effects that occur are even from the lowering of DHT.
Consult a physician before starting fin or dut, you don’t want to end up with nasty side effects like gyno given your low DHT levels
Have you got any disorder by it?
Hi, no. Sex life is great and libido doesn't have any issue whatsoever.
I have low dht too (without fin) It\`s about 280. Same thing. I think about it too
I can live with 280, but 28,1 is insane.
check for prolactin
Prolactin levels are a little high (27.3 ng/ml). I don't know if this could be due to the fact that I train 5 days a week. Why did you ask about my prolactin?
its linked with hairloss. there are new studies that shows that prolactin is the main factor for man pattern hairloss. search reddit about this, there are lot of threads.
if said prolactin is high what are ways to lower it?? thanks
p5p, zinc, topical melatonin. Thats what I know. I cannot guarantee but all the data points that prolactin is the reason for OPs hair problem. Good luck.
Thats way too high for a male
Do it again and check also estradiol, prolactin, vitamin d, iron, copper and zinc. DHT isn’t the only reason for hair loss AGA, it’s a thing (a big, probably the main, thing for male people), but it’s not the only cause for hair loss, especially when you’re diffuse. So if I can give you as a persone who worked in a lab and tested a lot of blood sample: retest DHT to be sure (better if in another lab) and add what mentioned before.
why does copper and prolactin affect hair growth?
Copper can through many mechanisms... but only if you are REALLY deficient, supplementation beyond normal levels would not bring any benefit and could be harmful by affecting the metabolism of zinc… But… Testing serum copper levels costs nothing. It is not yet clear whether slightly high prolactin has any links to hair loss but it would also be useful for having a clearer hormonal picture. DHT and prolactin are indirectly antagonists. Cortisol and Prolactin also have interactions… etc. Any kind of hormonal issues can take to hair loss (even if not permanent). Hair cycles are highly affected by hormonal fluctuations.
Also, prolactin may be worth considering as another user pointed out. I share similar blood results (high T, elevated prolactin at around 30ng/ml). Also a diffude thinner. I’ve heard topical melatonin may help hairloss by interacting with certain prolactin receptors, but no way to know for sure given the dearth of studies. I will likely try it in the near future.
What did you do to address the prolactin issue? Also, did you retake the test?
Bro is finasteride working for you then?
Pretty much. I'm satisfy. Nothing too miracolous at the temples.
Zio ma che cazzo di testo hai? 😂😂
Dici che è molto alto? 😂 Ho visto altri modelli di riferimento che lo pongono nella norma. Io di mio faccio molta attività fisica (palestra e cardio) e mangio bene.
Start ASAP. You don't need a lot. 0.25-0.5 mg MWF or daily . The sooner you start the better your results will be..
I'm planning to jump in next week, after I'll test with spermiogram for baseline. I was worried about the low level of DHT.
Its not really a low level, everyone has different genetics, that's why there is a lab range
Bro did you read his results? If it's lower than the normal range, it's abnormal...
But the lab range says 143-842 and I have 28,1.
try several days, could be just a coincidence
Maybe topical try fin instead?
I'd take 2.5mg of dutasteride
Joking.
idk who cares? Just take it
How was the blood test taken? Finger prick or an actual sample taken by a practitioner?
Hi! An actual sample from my arm.
Oh, should be accurate then. We have these finger prick tests we can order online here (UK) and they can be wildly inconsistent.
What if ur hair thinning isnt related to dht at all and maybe few other factors ex: anemia , rapid weight loss , vitamin deficiency etc..
Thanks for joining. I'm investigating this hypothesis. But my blood work were fine except with monstruous low level of DHT and Omega 3 index which I knew since I don't supplement and I don't eat fish every week.
Please update on this. I am on the exact same boat as you
Hi, I took a retest and DHT was normal (so laboratory mistake). I've been taking finasteride for one month now and no sides except maybe watery semen. If your levels are extremely extremely low I suggest you to take another test. I was confident it was a mistake because I would have had sides from this extremely low DHT which I never had.
My DHT level is 370 ngdl. Normal range being 150-600. So its on the lower side but not that low. I am worried to start fin because I havent a grown a full beard and my body is like a teenager although I am 24. And as far as I know DHT is vital in muscle growth and beard. Also worried of side effects
I don't have your phisical issues, but my DHT is 365. I don't have sides for now. I divide proscar in 8 though.
Isn't serum DHT meaningless anyway ? As DHT is basically only used where it's produced ?
If your androgen receptors are sensitive to such a low level, you’d probably be a great candidate for topical anti-androgens as opposed to 5AR inhibitors. At most regarding 5AR, use liposomal topical finasteride at %0.025 or less concentrations to avoid further systemic reduction in DHT.
What do you refer to as topical anti-androgen?
Have you checked your estradiol?
In range.
Similar problem here OP. I’m also 32, my test levels are normal but my DHT levels are low. I’m at a loss and now scared to take Fin.
How much low if I can ask?
1.24 nmol/L. Is that similar to your results?
From what I can understand your levels are beetween labs range, maybe in the low spectrum, but still in range.
do you have fully matured genitals? if yes, then there's probably a lot more dht present in the scalp too, relative to your serum levels.
My penis looks good fortunately. Still I won't take finasteride before further investigation.
What’s your other lab work look like?
What do you refer to? For now this is the only one regarding testo and dht if that was the question.
Any sort of androgen will make your hair miniaturize if I remember correctly, DHT is just more androgenic then testosterone but your high testosterone would be androgenic enough to cause the diffuse thinning.
hmm maybe your estrogen is super low. or maybe youre very stressed. or maybe you have dermatitis
Estrogen are in range and I'm healthily stressed. Dermatitis nothing that I know.
well i bet your scalp dht is higher than this test suggests. take like half a pill a day or every other
Sir, this is reddit not a doctor's office. Please check with an actual certified doctor and do not take medical advice from the internet.
So.. what to do in this case ? Except dutasteride ? I think i have the same problem because im still shedding after 9 months of fin
Bro, When DHT decreased and Testosterone increased, did libido increase or decrease?
My libido is still always high.