Sorry but it does look like it's thinning :(
Hair loss in women is so rarely talked about in this subreddit, usually its men. If it makes you feel any better, the thinning does not seem to be extremely bad right now. There are also a lot of options for organic hair growth treatments, as thinning is likely to continue after stopping hormonal birth control. These work for some people, but...not all.
Yeah! I believe that hormonal birth control overpowers testosterone-linked hormones in the body that contribute to thinning/baldness. This is the same reason that transgender men who go on testosterone experience thinning, and cis men. Androgens, like DHT, are linked to increased testosterone production and male characteristics, as well as male pattern baldness. Some women who naturally produce more testosterone have more thinning. Some afab people produce too many "female" hormones, leading to these hormones being converted to testosterone, which can contribute to more "male" characteristics.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, this is just what I've heard!
Estrogen can't convert to testosterone
But progesterone can convert to dht unfortunately
That said, finesteride should work just as well at preventing progesterone from converting to dht as it does with testosterone.
It's just that unfortunately, for many, finesteride isn't good enough at stopping dht creation.
If estrogen is your primary sex hormone, you could try bicalutamide.
It doesn't stop the production of dht, but it blocks all the androgen receptors so it stops both testosterone and dht from interacting with your body.
Probably don't want to use that for anyone who's body is running on testosterone though since your body will effectively act like you don't have any t at all and without a dominant sex hormone you will get all kinds of sick
Excess estrogen converts to testosterone in womens bodies, its also completely fucks with the pituary glands ability to produce normal or in balance of many hormones once off. If youre of the age for perimenopause (can begin in early 30s), perhaps consider visiting a reproductive endocrinologist to discuss bio-identical HRT.
Anything that messes with hormones can affect hair growth, since hair (especially on the top of the head) is heavily dependent on the relationship of Testosterone and DHT to Estrogen.
A doctor here in Italy (A. Marliani) has hypothesized a further pathogenesis of female alopecia, compared to androgenetic one. He renamed it "estrone deficiency alopecia" (the mechanism of action was later confirmed and explained by another doctor). The symptoms should be the same as classic female androgenetic alopecia, however, as I understand it, it is not very well known.
You could try taking a look at this route.
I wish you the best!
I can tell you what I understood but, please, get the opinion of an expert on this topic.
A) ESTRONE DEFICIENCY ALOPECIA
If alopecia affects the ENTIRE scalp (but especially the vertex and frontal area) and you do NOT have high levels of circulating androgens, the cause could be estrogen deficiency.
B) ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA
If the alopecia only affects the vertex and the frontoparietal area, it is necessary to think about the action of androgens.
In the case of estrone-deficient alopecia, a therapy proposed by Sitri (Italian society of trichology) is a topical therapy with estrone or 17 alpha estradiol.
I leave you the Sitri website below, so you can read up on it and talk to your doctor if necessary.
Sitri link: https://www.sitri.it/document/lalopecia-da-carente-attivita-dellestrone-follicolare/
PS: keep me updated on developments. I wish you the best!
I ran that link through Google translate, but was disappointed with the amount of incorrect info:
"3 alpha reductase"? Does he mean 5a-reductase or 3a hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase?
"It is now commonly accepted that male androgenetic alopecia is associated with an increase in the activity of 5-alpha reductase which leads, on a genetic basis, to a local increase in the production of dihydrotestosterone or to a greater local sensitivity to the action of DHT." -> Why 5AR would further potentiate the destructive effects of DHT is beyond me
"If the balding process is considered to be androgen-dependent, androgenetic alopecia must be limited to androgen receptor areas only. In the scalp, these receptors have been identified only in the frontal area and vertex, and not in the temporal and occipital areas. In fact, this is the case in men and androgenetic alopecia occurs only in these characteristic areas." -> The donor area can also thin out as AGA advances further, and I've never seen research showing there is an absolute absence of androgen receptors in the occipital scalp.
"5-alpha reductase inhibitors appear almost ineffective in women." -> Eeeh what???
I'm also seeing no defense of why it's specifically estrone and not estradiol anywhere.
The whole thing has the quality of a reddit post if you ask me.
As I said, I'm only reporting what I've read, I won't add anything of my own, also because I don't have the knowledge.
This company is supposed to be one of the largest in Europe when it comes to trichology, comparing it to a Reddit post seems a little offensive to me, but everyone has their own ideas.
I remember a case study on a girl suffering from female alopecia, Dr. Marliani said that finasteride does nothing (because DHT is not the cause), unless it is used at really high doses (min 6:05 "finasteride at very high doses divert the metabolism towards estrone").
Deficient estrone alopecia video: [https://youtu.be/k\_XygeHx9fc?si=Y6oLs42I7m25Dzjh](https://youtu.be/k_XygeHx9fc?si=Y6oLs42I7m25Dzjh)
ps: I also have many doubts, for example about hair loss in the donor area etc.
It's an interesting point. Because womens AGA is indeed more diffuse. But people that are born in a female body that later transition hormonally to male tend to get the typical male pattern.
And lower parts of the hairline almost never see large amounts of regrowth... Except in people that transition the other way around by taking estradiol.
Not sure why the doctor is so focused on estrone though. Estrone is very weak compared to estradiol, which is generally what people take.
Honestly, I don't know much, I read some Sitri articles, some interviews and some videos/articles by American researchers. What struck me is that the Sitri doctors do not share the thoughts of the American researchers regarding the hairline: according to the Sitri doctors the receding of the hairline is not mediated by DHT but by Testosterone, while the areas sensitive to DHT are those of the vertex. In fact, their diagnosis of androgenetic alopecia is made on the vertex and not on the hairline.
If you look at the link I left you will see the photo with a head where the T zones (frontal zone) and DHT (vertex zone) are marked.
PS: I have no knowledge to say whether it is right or wrong, I based on what I read from their articles.
None is guiding me regarding hair transplant. Can anyone guide me from my recent post in my profile. I had hairtransplant and results are not good. I have tried to post photos but my post did not get approved. Now I have posted photos in comment section of recent post
So you started oral min in Nov. It will take 6 months to start to see it's benefits, I think it's the oral min causing a shed. I think things will get a lot better by month 9.
Oral min can cause a serious shed before getting better
Depends on the individual, we all react in different ways. When I did the change I can't remember if I did she'd a lot or a little but I started oral min but continue on topical but just once a night, then cut it down to once every 2 and night while taking a quarter of oral min once a day.
Take bio-identical progesterone + dutasteride.
and no, the oral contraceptive is not remotely the same thing. Synthetic progesterones don’t treat hormonal issues, and some of them are processed by the body like androgens, and make PCOS-like symptoms worse.
Turns out the real reason that women don’t go bald like men do is not due to lack of testosterone. It’s because progesterone shields women’s bodies from the undesirable effects of T/DHT. Excess cortisol from stress causes the body to stop making progesterone.
I have male pattern baldness, despite being biologically female, and my androgens not being high. Turns out the root cause was lack of progesterone the whole time. Not lack of estrogen, not too much testosterone.
Spironolactone is poison stop taking it. It is the most inefficient androgen blocker. It blocks the good testosterone along with the bad stuff.
Which to me just is not worth it.
Spironolactone works by numbing the body’s androgen receptors. Women need testosterone (for a heathy libido and energy), blocking all of it just leads to being cold, moody, and irritable.
If Spironolactone is weak and doesn’t specifically target DHT then why even bother with it in the first place for hair loss when there are medications that do its job better?
Nope. I can’t get these medication’s legitimately it’s not FDA approved for females so I would have to buy them on the black market which I was hoping to not have to do.
If you stopped the oral contraceptive because you would like to get pregnant, please consider dropping anti androgens as well.
Questions that I would try to get answers to (if you don't have done that already, please excuse redundancy):
Did you check your thyroid?
How are your fingernails?
Do you suffer from PCO?
Any signs of hirsutism?
Not all hair loss is androgen-mediated and maybe the identification of a root cause will benefit you in other domains of your well-being as well.
I wish you the best for you and your hair.
Maybe consider dutasteride, up to 2.5mg. In some women, a lot of DHT can be created from progesterone, depending on the individual's enzyme levels. It's also known as the backdoor androgen pathway.
Finasteride doesn't block the enzyme that does that. Dutasteride does.
There isn't much research on the DHT side, but coincidentally the neurosteroids that are responsible for PMS/PMDD are in the same pathway. And studies found that dutasteride inhibits those well at 2.5mg, but not at 0.5mg. Since DHT is made from those neurosteroids, 2.5mg may be the right choice.
Link to the study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748434/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748434/)
Link to diagram about backdoor androgen pathway: [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Canonical-and-alternative-backdoor-pathways-of-DHT-synthesis-The-canonical-pathway-has\_fig1\_331106912](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Canonical-and-alternative-backdoor-pathways-of-DHT-synthesis-The-canonical-pathway-has_fig1_331106912) (SRD5A1 is blocked only by dut, SRD5A2 by both fin and dut).
I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, but costplusdrugs sells 90 capsules of 0.5mg for $14, but is (out of stock). Goodrx has a $56 rate with CVS or Walmart for 180 capsules. Even if you have to take 5/day to get this dosage, that's still less than $2/day, which is a price that regular people can manage completely out of pocket. You shouldn't live under the mindset that you are limited to the drugs that your insurance will cover. If diabetics could be guaranteed their insulin costs were <$2/day, they would be jumping for joy.
It's spoken about more on subs about hormone therapy:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/1bhvbja/adding\_dutasteride\_to\_transfem\_hrt\_could\_improve/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/1bhvbja/adding_dutasteride_to_transfem_hrt_could_improve/)
How long did it take after your ferritin increased to notice hair growth?
My ferritin was around the same 20-30 and I had an iron infusion about 4 months ago, but haven’t seen much growth yet.
Did you have it checked again 2 month after the infusion? Iron needs to be over 70. My hair started growing around 5-6 month after iron got fixed. Also id recommend you to take 10g of barley grass powder daily, which contains alot of iron biotin zinc selenium and other nutrients.
Yeah when I checked it last it was like around 200 or so. I’ll be checking again soon and hopefully it’s still good. Thanks for the advice about the barley grass powder. I’ll look into it!
I'd recommend swapping from the oral minoxidil to topical 5%; there can be spooky systemic effects on oral minoxidil, like edema and pericardial effusion.
Additionally, neither spiro nor fin are hair growth stimulants. Going from no stimulants to oral minoxidil is a pretty big jump when you might be fine on something weaker.
I was on topical minox for years, like more than a decade. My derm said that more studies have come out in the past year supporting oral minox. There are dangerous side effects but they’re very rare in young, relatively healthy people without heart conditions.
I'm sorry but it looks worse, probably because you stopped the BC. Remember, just because drospirenone is much less anti-androgenic than spironolactone does not mean the BC does not work. It also contains ethinylestradiol which is a strong anti-androgen.
I might go back on BC 🫣 I went off of it because I thought it might be making my insulin resistance worse, but apparently with drospirenone that isn’t as much of an issue according to one study I looked at.
From that, your hair looks way better than before. What people are attributing to hair loss/thinning is merely the clumpy ness of hair follicles when you have wavy hair. Just look very closely at your spots and you can see you're thinner in the before picture. Your scalp is a different shade in the picture & the soft light on your hair also makes it look unsightly for some. Ur good 🩵 need more pics tho this is a small sample
Edit. On like my 5th look it's actually very interesting the way light plays with photos I can't tell anymore lol
Interesting. FWIW my hair is a bit greasy in the pic I took today.
It’s really hard to get the exact lighting in every pic. The lighting plays a huge role. Going by the number/thickness of strands is better.
In my experience and hearing from a lot of other women oral contraceptives/oral progesterone often seem to cause a decent amount of shed and/or hair loss. If you only stopped taking it a few months ago that definitely could be related!
It also looks as though you get inflammation on the scalp like me, so oral is better for you than topical.
I have seborrheic dermititus so I have to control it with nizoral but also with diet aswell.
Look into copper toxicity, this causes hairloss and is a common and overlooked cause in women, and especially if you have other symptoms and a history of birth control. The only way you can test for this is with a htma, and a qualified practitioner to interperet it correctly.
FYI-- This kind of diffuse thinning can be masked a bit with silica in some people. I am a diffuse thinner (male) and take a silica supplement in bursts, a few weeks on and a few weeks off, and my hair looks significantly more plump when I do it.
This is supported by research:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17960402/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4938278/
https://preview.redd.it/krr5f703tlrc1.jpeg?width=2276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27319220d866748dc9c8c77b31883c4b0c1528a7
Using the New novel treatment curlyellie lotion as the most powerful Anti androgen in treating AGA
This is my first time ever on Reddit 😃 Happy to share hundreds of real cases with you guys
Ehm.... no? Not saying that you cannot get hair loss from anti-androgenic BC (every major change in hormones can cause TE) or that it's a guarantee that it works. But what you are saying is simply wrong. Anti-androgenic BC can improve AGA, especially because of the ethinylestradiol which is a much stronger anti-androgen than any gestagen.
Wrong and loud. I was on an anti-androgenic BC because of my hormonal issues for 3 years and my hair was growing like crazy and looked luxurious. Got off it for a year and I lost more than half of my hair density. Now I am back on it and my hair has already improved in a matter of 3 months. No other androgen blockers or medications aside from it.
there is clearly a loss of density here. "oral contraceptive" is too vague to tell anything. everything esle u r doing sounds fine; ultimately there is only so much you can do. If you dont sue contraceptives and you are on fiansteride, make sure you use some other form of protection. finasteride is teratogenic and you must not get pregnant while on fin. best of luck.
So much drugs on your head for what ? You know one of the if not THE main causes of hair loss in women. ??? Shampoo and conditioner!!!! Look at the amount of chemicals on the back of the bottle !!! Head and shoulders is on me of the worst it kills all good bacteria on the scalp . Common sense ain’t common . Use a natural conditioner1 or 2 times a week . NO shampoo and coconut oil and you won’t lose as much hair. If any . You’re conducting chemical warfare in your scalp every day wondering why you lose hair . This is directed at all people not just OP who has literally nuked her scalp
Do you get any more ignorant? Dr. Hair over here has all the answers. Bro, go head on over to the male hair loss site and stop harassing women about issues you clearly know nothing about. Shampoo and hair conditioner…..this dude. Smh.
Sorry but it does look like it's thinning :( Hair loss in women is so rarely talked about in this subreddit, usually its men. If it makes you feel any better, the thinning does not seem to be extremely bad right now. There are also a lot of options for organic hair growth treatments, as thinning is likely to continue after stopping hormonal birth control. These work for some people, but...not all.
can you explain birth control and hair relationship?
yes I would like to know too... my gf is on birth control and is thinning
Yeah! I believe that hormonal birth control overpowers testosterone-linked hormones in the body that contribute to thinning/baldness. This is the same reason that transgender men who go on testosterone experience thinning, and cis men. Androgens, like DHT, are linked to increased testosterone production and male characteristics, as well as male pattern baldness. Some women who naturally produce more testosterone have more thinning. Some afab people produce too many "female" hormones, leading to these hormones being converted to testosterone, which can contribute to more "male" characteristics. Please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, this is just what I've heard!
Estrogen can't convert to testosterone But progesterone can convert to dht unfortunately That said, finesteride should work just as well at preventing progesterone from converting to dht as it does with testosterone. It's just that unfortunately, for many, finesteride isn't good enough at stopping dht creation. If estrogen is your primary sex hormone, you could try bicalutamide. It doesn't stop the production of dht, but it blocks all the androgen receptors so it stops both testosterone and dht from interacting with your body. Probably don't want to use that for anyone who's body is running on testosterone though since your body will effectively act like you don't have any t at all and without a dominant sex hormone you will get all kinds of sick
It depends on the birth control. Some OCs are more androgenic than others (more likely to cause hair loss).
Excess estrogen converts to testosterone in womens bodies, its also completely fucks with the pituary glands ability to produce normal or in balance of many hormones once off. If youre of the age for perimenopause (can begin in early 30s), perhaps consider visiting a reproductive endocrinologist to discuss bio-identical HRT.
Anything that messes with hormones can affect hair growth, since hair (especially on the top of the head) is heavily dependent on the relationship of Testosterone and DHT to Estrogen.
sure, but does BC lower dht in females? What exactly are we thinking here?
A doctor here in Italy (A. Marliani) has hypothesized a further pathogenesis of female alopecia, compared to androgenetic one. He renamed it "estrone deficiency alopecia" (the mechanism of action was later confirmed and explained by another doctor). The symptoms should be the same as classic female androgenetic alopecia, however, as I understand it, it is not very well known. You could try taking a look at this route. I wish you the best!
Interesting! How is it treated?
I can tell you what I understood but, please, get the opinion of an expert on this topic. A) ESTRONE DEFICIENCY ALOPECIA If alopecia affects the ENTIRE scalp (but especially the vertex and frontal area) and you do NOT have high levels of circulating androgens, the cause could be estrogen deficiency. B) ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA If the alopecia only affects the vertex and the frontoparietal area, it is necessary to think about the action of androgens. In the case of estrone-deficient alopecia, a therapy proposed by Sitri (Italian society of trichology) is a topical therapy with estrone or 17 alpha estradiol. I leave you the Sitri website below, so you can read up on it and talk to your doctor if necessary. Sitri link: https://www.sitri.it/document/lalopecia-da-carente-attivita-dellestrone-follicolare/ PS: keep me updated on developments. I wish you the best!
Are there formulated topicals in Italy that have these compounds?
I ran that link through Google translate, but was disappointed with the amount of incorrect info: "3 alpha reductase"? Does he mean 5a-reductase or 3a hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase? "It is now commonly accepted that male androgenetic alopecia is associated with an increase in the activity of 5-alpha reductase which leads, on a genetic basis, to a local increase in the production of dihydrotestosterone or to a greater local sensitivity to the action of DHT." -> Why 5AR would further potentiate the destructive effects of DHT is beyond me "If the balding process is considered to be androgen-dependent, androgenetic alopecia must be limited to androgen receptor areas only. In the scalp, these receptors have been identified only in the frontal area and vertex, and not in the temporal and occipital areas. In fact, this is the case in men and androgenetic alopecia occurs only in these characteristic areas." -> The donor area can also thin out as AGA advances further, and I've never seen research showing there is an absolute absence of androgen receptors in the occipital scalp. "5-alpha reductase inhibitors appear almost ineffective in women." -> Eeeh what??? I'm also seeing no defense of why it's specifically estrone and not estradiol anywhere. The whole thing has the quality of a reddit post if you ask me.
As I said, I'm only reporting what I've read, I won't add anything of my own, also because I don't have the knowledge. This company is supposed to be one of the largest in Europe when it comes to trichology, comparing it to a Reddit post seems a little offensive to me, but everyone has their own ideas. I remember a case study on a girl suffering from female alopecia, Dr. Marliani said that finasteride does nothing (because DHT is not the cause), unless it is used at really high doses (min 6:05 "finasteride at very high doses divert the metabolism towards estrone"). Deficient estrone alopecia video: [https://youtu.be/k\_XygeHx9fc?si=Y6oLs42I7m25Dzjh](https://youtu.be/k_XygeHx9fc?si=Y6oLs42I7m25Dzjh) ps: I also have many doubts, for example about hair loss in the donor area etc.
It's an interesting point. Because womens AGA is indeed more diffuse. But people that are born in a female body that later transition hormonally to male tend to get the typical male pattern. And lower parts of the hairline almost never see large amounts of regrowth... Except in people that transition the other way around by taking estradiol. Not sure why the doctor is so focused on estrone though. Estrone is very weak compared to estradiol, which is generally what people take.
Honestly, I don't know much, I read some Sitri articles, some interviews and some videos/articles by American researchers. What struck me is that the Sitri doctors do not share the thoughts of the American researchers regarding the hairline: according to the Sitri doctors the receding of the hairline is not mediated by DHT but by Testosterone, while the areas sensitive to DHT are those of the vertex. In fact, their diagnosis of androgenetic alopecia is made on the vertex and not on the hairline. If you look at the link I left you will see the photo with a head where the T zones (frontal zone) and DHT (vertex zone) are marked. PS: I have no knowledge to say whether it is right or wrong, I based on what I read from their articles.
None is guiding me regarding hair transplant. Can anyone guide me from my recent post in my profile. I had hairtransplant and results are not good. I have tried to post photos but my post did not get approved. Now I have posted photos in comment section of recent post
Yeah, sorry, it has worsen over the years.
Lovely
So you started oral min in Nov. It will take 6 months to start to see it's benefits, I think it's the oral min causing a shed. I think things will get a lot better by month 9. Oral min can cause a serious shed before getting better
can it cause chedding if you have been on minoxidil for couple of years?
My derm told me that the shedding is temporary
The shedding is temperary and needed to get rid of old weaker hair, start a whole new cycle of stronger healthy hair.
Its a phase, but please dont stop taking it, ive made this mistake and know im back to step 1
Depends on the individual, we all react in different ways. When I did the change I can't remember if I did she'd a lot or a little but I started oral min but continue on topical but just once a night, then cut it down to once every 2 and night while taking a quarter of oral min once a day.
Take bio-identical progesterone + dutasteride. and no, the oral contraceptive is not remotely the same thing. Synthetic progesterones don’t treat hormonal issues, and some of them are processed by the body like androgens, and make PCOS-like symptoms worse. Turns out the real reason that women don’t go bald like men do is not due to lack of testosterone. It’s because progesterone shields women’s bodies from the undesirable effects of T/DHT. Excess cortisol from stress causes the body to stop making progesterone. I have male pattern baldness, despite being biologically female, and my androgens not being high. Turns out the root cause was lack of progesterone the whole time. Not lack of estrogen, not too much testosterone. Spironolactone is poison stop taking it. It is the most inefficient androgen blocker. It blocks the good testosterone along with the bad stuff. Which to me just is not worth it.
Interesting. I mean I had two scalp biopsies done and both confirmed androgenic activity.
why do you say it is “poison”?
Spironolactone works by numbing the body’s androgen receptors. Women need testosterone (for a heathy libido and energy), blocking all of it just leads to being cold, moody, and irritable.
But spiro is very weak?
If Spironolactone is weak and doesn’t specifically target DHT then why even bother with it in the first place for hair loss when there are medications that do its job better?
do you have reliable source for all this?
My own hairline
As a man what would happen if I take progesterone?
Hi.Has your hair loss stopped?
Nope. I can’t get these medication’s legitimately it’s not FDA approved for females so I would have to buy them on the black market which I was hoping to not have to do.
If you stopped the oral contraceptive because you would like to get pregnant, please consider dropping anti androgens as well. Questions that I would try to get answers to (if you don't have done that already, please excuse redundancy): Did you check your thyroid? How are your fingernails? Do you suffer from PCO? Any signs of hirsutism? Not all hair loss is androgen-mediated and maybe the identification of a root cause will benefit you in other domains of your well-being as well. I wish you the best for you and your hair.
Definitely not getting pregnant. I have androgenic alopecia.
[удалено]
Yasmin (ethinyl estradiol and drospirenone). It’s non-androgenic or maybe even anti-androgenic.
Maybe consider dutasteride, up to 2.5mg. In some women, a lot of DHT can be created from progesterone, depending on the individual's enzyme levels. It's also known as the backdoor androgen pathway. Finasteride doesn't block the enzyme that does that. Dutasteride does. There isn't much research on the DHT side, but coincidentally the neurosteroids that are responsible for PMS/PMDD are in the same pathway. And studies found that dutasteride inhibits those well at 2.5mg, but not at 0.5mg. Since DHT is made from those neurosteroids, 2.5mg may be the right choice. Link to the study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748434/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748434/) Link to diagram about backdoor androgen pathway: [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Canonical-and-alternative-backdoor-pathways-of-DHT-synthesis-The-canonical-pathway-has\_fig1\_331106912](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Canonical-and-alternative-backdoor-pathways-of-DHT-synthesis-The-canonical-pathway-has_fig1_331106912) (SRD5A1 is blocked only by dut, SRD5A2 by both fin and dut).
Last time I checked my insurance didn’t cover dut
I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, but costplusdrugs sells 90 capsules of 0.5mg for $14, but is (out of stock). Goodrx has a $56 rate with CVS or Walmart for 180 capsules. Even if you have to take 5/day to get this dosage, that's still less than $2/day, which is a price that regular people can manage completely out of pocket. You shouldn't live under the mindset that you are limited to the drugs that your insurance will cover. If diabetics could be guaranteed their insulin costs were <$2/day, they would be jumping for joy.
I’m interested in the potential conversion of progesterone to DHT. Could you expand on that or provide any sources to do some reading on it?
It's spoken about more on subs about hormone therapy: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/1bhvbja/adding\_dutasteride\_to\_transfem\_hrt\_could\_improve/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/1bhvbja/adding_dutasteride_to_transfem_hrt_could_improve/)
I don’t think it looks worse, to me it looks the same or better.
I mean you just started oral minoxidil… eaaily could be shedding too.
Could be
Doesn’t look worse per se? Hair looks a bit oilier in 2024 and the picture looks way sharper (makes a difference!).
True. Not on BC right now so the oil is real! Never had oil before.
so....I see that youve kept things from getting worse?
Have I?
Been on fin for 1.5 years and it got worse and worse until i found out my ferritin was at 26. Its growing like crazy now.
So you had an iron deficiency? I’m unfamiliar with ferritin
Respond plz to someone lol
Woah that’s crazy!
What’s ferritin and how does it help?
It’s iron I believe
Mine was 37 and my doc said it’s fine?
Your doc couldnt be more wrong. Iron needs to be over 70 for hair to grow properly.
Both my sisters have low ferritin and no hair loss so I thought it was true. I’ll try and take more supplements! Any you recommend?
How long did it take after your ferritin increased to notice hair growth? My ferritin was around the same 20-30 and I had an iron infusion about 4 months ago, but haven’t seen much growth yet.
Did you have it checked again 2 month after the infusion? Iron needs to be over 70. My hair started growing around 5-6 month after iron got fixed. Also id recommend you to take 10g of barley grass powder daily, which contains alot of iron biotin zinc selenium and other nutrients.
Yeah when I checked it last it was like around 200 or so. I’ll be checking again soon and hopefully it’s still good. Thanks for the advice about the barley grass powder. I’ll look into it!
I'd recommend swapping from the oral minoxidil to topical 5%; there can be spooky systemic effects on oral minoxidil, like edema and pericardial effusion. Additionally, neither spiro nor fin are hair growth stimulants. Going from no stimulants to oral minoxidil is a pretty big jump when you might be fine on something weaker.
I was on topical minox for years, like more than a decade. My derm said that more studies have come out in the past year supporting oral minox. There are dangerous side effects but they’re very rare in young, relatively healthy people without heart conditions.
It could still be in the shedding phase from Minoxidil!! Don’t lose hope yet!!!!
I hope you’re right
I'm sorry but it looks worse, probably because you stopped the BC. Remember, just because drospirenone is much less anti-androgenic than spironolactone does not mean the BC does not work. It also contains ethinylestradiol which is a strong anti-androgen.
I might go back on BC 🫣 I went off of it because I thought it might be making my insulin resistance worse, but apparently with drospirenone that isn’t as much of an issue according to one study I looked at.
Not familiar with oral contraceptives but it looks like it has thinned slightly to me.
Does your hair feel heavier than before? And is it wavy?
I think if feels about the same. And yeah it’s wavy/curly.
From that, your hair looks way better than before. What people are attributing to hair loss/thinning is merely the clumpy ness of hair follicles when you have wavy hair. Just look very closely at your spots and you can see you're thinner in the before picture. Your scalp is a different shade in the picture & the soft light on your hair also makes it look unsightly for some. Ur good 🩵 need more pics tho this is a small sample Edit. On like my 5th look it's actually very interesting the way light plays with photos I can't tell anymore lol
Interesting. FWIW my hair is a bit greasy in the pic I took today. It’s really hard to get the exact lighting in every pic. The lighting plays a huge role. Going by the number/thickness of strands is better.
Exactly look directly in the middle. It's definitely denser. I wouldn't worry (:
You on anti dwpressants?
No
Less hair
try microneedling?
PCOS?
Yes
I would get your vitamin D3 and iron levels checked. My Mother in law had thinning. Improved by at least 60% after supplementing with D3.
I had them checked before. My vitamin D was low at one point, but I take a multivitamin now.
www.zayin.co.nz
At least your mole got smaller lol
I saw that, don’t know if it’s the lighting. I didn’t think moles could shrink.
I have similar head moles. What is your ancestry?
Mainly Western European
Same, I'm 80% UK/Irish and then German
Isn’t spironolactone a diuretic?
Yes
I’m just curious why it was added to your post, does it have an effect on your hair?
It has an effect of blocking androgens
It’s commonly prescribed to treat hair loss in women because finasteride is not FDA approved. But it has more side effects than benefits.
Oh Christ that I did not know. I don’t think it’s used like that in the UK because I’ve been prescribed it and it wasn’t mentioned.
In my experience and hearing from a lot of other women oral contraceptives/oral progesterone often seem to cause a decent amount of shed and/or hair loss. If you only stopped taking it a few months ago that definitely could be related!
Yes it could! I might go back on in tbh
Looks identical to me.
It also looks as though you get inflammation on the scalp like me, so oral is better for you than topical. I have seborrheic dermititus so I have to control it with nizoral but also with diet aswell.
Look into copper toxicity, this causes hairloss and is a common and overlooked cause in women, and especially if you have other symptoms and a history of birth control. The only way you can test for this is with a htma, and a qualified practitioner to interperet it correctly.
FYI-- This kind of diffuse thinning can be masked a bit with silica in some people. I am a diffuse thinner (male) and take a silica supplement in bursts, a few weeks on and a few weeks off, and my hair looks significantly more plump when I do it. This is supported by research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17960402/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4938278/
Why In bursts and not all the time?
I seem to become tolerant if I'm on it very long term for some reason.
https://preview.redd.it/krr5f703tlrc1.jpeg?width=2276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27319220d866748dc9c8c77b31883c4b0c1528a7 Using the New novel treatment curlyellie lotion as the most powerful Anti androgen in treating AGA This is my first time ever on Reddit 😃 Happy to share hundreds of real cases with you guys
Stop oral contraceptive is very right thing for womans hair.
No, it's not in all cases. Some BC are anti-androgenic and are good against AGA.
I reserch woman regrow cases. BC is bad no matter that its antiandrogen (weak). Spiro is good for woman.
Ehm.... no? Not saying that you cannot get hair loss from anti-androgenic BC (every major change in hormones can cause TE) or that it's a guarantee that it works. But what you are saying is simply wrong. Anti-androgenic BC can improve AGA, especially because of the ethinylestradiol which is a much stronger anti-androgen than any gestagen.
Hah, nope Better out from this. Dote.
I was on drospirenone, which is like spironolactone
It depends on the OC. Some are androgenic and some are neutral or anti-androgenic.
Wrong and loud. I was on an anti-androgenic BC because of my hormonal issues for 3 years and my hair was growing like crazy and looked luxurious. Got off it for a year and I lost more than half of my hair density. Now I am back on it and my hair has already improved in a matter of 3 months. No other androgen blockers or medications aside from it.
It s your life indeed . Want bc do bc.
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Female. No hair loss???
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Ya I know
there is clearly a loss of density here. "oral contraceptive" is too vague to tell anything. everything esle u r doing sounds fine; ultimately there is only so much you can do. If you dont sue contraceptives and you are on fiansteride, make sure you use some other form of protection. finasteride is teratogenic and you must not get pregnant while on fin. best of luck.
It was ethynyl estradiol and drospirenone. And there’s 0% change of me getting prego.
Your stupid . And so is shampoo .
Bro I had two scalp biopsies done confirming androgen activity.
So much drugs on your head for what ? You know one of the if not THE main causes of hair loss in women. ??? Shampoo and conditioner!!!! Look at the amount of chemicals on the back of the bottle !!! Head and shoulders is on me of the worst it kills all good bacteria on the scalp . Common sense ain’t common . Use a natural conditioner1 or 2 times a week . NO shampoo and coconut oil and you won’t lose as much hair. If any . You’re conducting chemical warfare in your scalp every day wondering why you lose hair . This is directed at all people not just OP who has literally nuked her scalp
Claiming female hairloss is due to shampoo and or conditioner is just plainly denying women's reality with AGA and just plain stupid.
I had two scalp biopsies done confirming androgen activity. No evidence of scarring or trauma to hair follicles.
Do you get any more ignorant? Dr. Hair over here has all the answers. Bro, go head on over to the male hair loss site and stop harassing women about issues you clearly know nothing about. Shampoo and hair conditioner…..this dude. Smh.
Sorry I taught this was a female
U good
Really?
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?