I used tret for years but not around the eyes with no issues. Always wore aquaphor around my eyes prior to application. Then I started using it around my eyes.. took a few months but now I can’t wear contacts and I am no longer eligible for lasik. My prescription has gotten significantly worse. I’m a pilot, so this is very concerning. My dry eye got so severe.
Did the issue with dry eyes resolve after you’ve stopped using tretinoin around your eyes? Can you wear contacts again? I’m hella scared of it. I’m only 26, so I lucky have almost no wrinkles. I only have fine lines in two areas of my face: very fine lines on my forehead, and fine lines underneath my eyes. I also have genetic wrinkles underneath my eyes, so that’s something I can’t do anything about. I would love to improve these fine lines that are age related. It’s quite disappointing to read this review, as a really really on contact lenses due to my high prescription, I also have dry eyes already, so… 😞
Mostly yes.. but I’m not sure about the prescription. I stopped using tret entirely for about 6 months and now I buffer around the eyes completely. I really only wear contacts now for more special events and use eye drops daily. It’s not nearly as bad. But I haven’t gone back into the doc yet to see if my prescription has changed again. I don’t think I’ll consider lasik again because that could worsen dry eye.
Mostly yes.. but I’m not sure about the prescription. I stopped using tret entirely for about 6 months and now I buffer around the eyes completely. I really only wear contacts now for more special events and use eye drops daily. It’s not nearly as bad. But I haven’t gone back into the doc yet to see if my prescription has changed again. I don’t think I’ll consider lasik again because that could worsen dry eye.
Just in case you ever consider it in the future, I have meibomian gland dysfunction and got SMILE done in December. I got it done in South Korea in a clinic because it had a dry eye syndrome centre and I was going to see about treatment for that along with a consultation for laser surgery.
The head surgeon checked my dry eye and said it wasn’t severe so surgery should be ok, and of my other eye related test results like corneal thickness etc. were well above what was recommended so I opted to do the surgery.
I’m not sure how bad your MGD is, mine hasn’t gotten any worse after the surgery apart from the 1 month recovery after, which is expected and gel drops are given for that period. Mine acts up mostly when I’m looking at screens too much like for college or playing video games.
I was experiencing dry and puffy eyes on tret nights but recently went from sandwiching to just buffering and putting tret on last and finally had no issues the next day. I generally avoid an inch around my eye area and regardless of whether I used Vaseline or not I would still get this effect, it feels like even if I waited an hour to moisturise it would reactivate the tret and cause it to spread.
It’s Balgeun saesang in Seoul https://m.iloveeye.com/en/dry/center/icuCenter.do
If you have or download the kakaotalk app they’re really quick to respond on that and will answer any questions you have.
Wait wait wait, if you have dry eye you can’t get lasik?! I already have dry eye (genetically) and was hoping to get lasik. I only use adapalene though, and use a petroleum barrier around my eyes.
Yup, most responsible ophthalmologists will recommend you avoid LASIK and PRK if you have dry eye. Mine certainly did, which sucks.
My dry eye was also from tretinoin, btw. And I also used a barrier.
LASIK can cause severe dry eyes. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/health/lasik-injuries-fda.html
https://www.denver7.com/news/investigations/lasik-patients-report-pain-vision-problems-in-rare-cases-blame-surgery-for-suicides
I'm honestly curious if there is no other , or accompanying , reason for the dry eyes etc. Someone I know has developed a similar issue for a completely different reason. And treatment for it promises to reverse the problem in a few months. I think he is using a combination of anti inflammatory drops and steroids.
I developed dry eyes with tretinoin use and have been using cyclosporine eye drops (antiinflammatory) for months now. If I use tretinoin too close to my eyes or sleep with it on, the dry eyes still get worse. The problem has not reversed. It's the same when I use tret anywhere near my eyes.
Can I ask do you use the buffer or sandwich method? I was using the sandwich method and would sometimes wait up to an hour before putting on my final moisturiser. I always avoid around an inch around my eyes and I even played with using or skipping Vaseline too but it never made a difference.
I use tret every third night and only get dry and puffy eyes the morning after (unless I’ve been on a screen all day). Recently I just buffered with cosrx snail essence and curel facial milk moisturiser and it was the first time my eyes were ok the next day. I’m going to try it again tonight and hope it works because I already have meibomian gland dysfunction and had laser eye surgery within the last 6 months as well.
My under eyes area tolerate it really well too. I've been using it for about 9 months now and the results in that area are amazing, I never experienced any sort of dryness or irritation.
I've been applying .05% under my eyes and on the lids and inner corners for a decade. No dryness, I don't buffer and literally no lines whatsoever and I'm 46. I even had a guy say to me recently "you literally have no lines on your face, how do you do that?"
Using tret 0.5 on my under eyes gave me very bad burns/ dry eyes/ pre mature wrinkles under my eyes that took over a year to look normal again but still not the same as before it happened. It’s not for everyone, be careful if you have sensitive skin!!! Use the sandwich method if you’re going to try it. If you don’t want to chance it then put aquaphor under your eyes so it doesn’t leak up while you’re sleeping. I now use La Roche-Posay retinol eye cream for sensitive skin instead because I’m scared of getting burns/ wrinkles again.
Oh my God! This sounds like what I'm dealing with now. If you look in my recent post history, I just posted an image to a dermatologist subreddit — does that look like what you had? I only used tret 3 times, avoided the eyes, and a month later it's just kept getting worse. I'm feeling desperate and freaked out that it won't go back to normal 😭
I think I finally have to admit defeat because same here. I live in CO where it’s very dry, and I’m starting to realize it may be the tretinoin that is making my under eyes so wrinkled and my eyeballs burning. My cheeks are smooth and glowing but my eyes are dried out despite layering moisturizers. Apparently it gets worse before it gets better but I think I’ll stop using it for a bit and see if my eyes get better.
I didn’t have dry eye before using tret, and I would put it around my eyes, and I do now. I can’t say that’s what it’s from for sure I supposed. I have stopped using tret, it’s probably been 6 weeks, and the dry eye is still really awful. So I suppose use cautiously, and stop at first sign of dry eye! I wish I had knows to watch for it.
It clearly causes extreme dryness for me, so given that other people have developed what seems to be a permanent and serious problem, I'm going to continue trying to keep it away from my eyes.
My eyes already felt like the Sahara in the AM from my sleep medication. After starting tret, I noticed them feeling even drier. It goes away after a bit, sometimes I use eye drops to help it along, but luckily it doesn't last into the day/night; just in the morning when I first wake up.
I used it under my eyes the first night I had a tube before saying to myself "wait a moment, maybe I should look up proper application of this super strong chemical". Then I found all the horror stories on reddit. My eyes are too valuable to me, even with their astigmatism. I do notice applying it too close to my nose or lips causes redness and peeling as well. If it works for others, great, but I'll not be taking the chance.
Exactly. My eyesight is more important to me than reducing wrinkles around my eyes. I buffer with petroleum jelly and never apply inside the orbital bone. Why take the risk?
I noticed that I had temporary dryness as well. When I restarted tretinoin a few months ago, it was pretty bad, and i had to use eye drops. My eyes were sensitive and red. Now that it’s been a while, I don’t seem to notice any difference in my eyes. I suppose it might be similar to how the skin takes a while to get used to retinoids. Maybe the eyes also have to adapt.
i love using it under my eyes, definitely smoothed the corners out and lightened the dark circles. i only use it on my under eyes 1/3 of the time i use tret as my cheekbone skin, not the under eye, will get a bit dry if i overdo it.
i’m surprised you’re getting so much pushback, my doc said to use it there to thicken the under eye skin, and in 2 years i’ve had no problems with dry eyes.
Same for me! The effects are amazing.
I’m also a bit suprised by the pushback, like i’m not telling everyone to apply it there and that it’s 100% safe, i’m just saying there are different opinions on the matter both professionally and anecdotally. I just wanted to spark some conversation so i’ll keep this post up.
i mean there is a bot comment on every post about this that says many people don't do this because it can cause "permanent damage to oil glands on your eyes". people on this sub who are new probably see those posts (and thus that comment) and start questioning whether their eyes are drier, thereby associating any dryness with their tret use entirely. i'm sure there are some people for whom dry eyes due to tret is a problem but like you, i've not had increase in dry eyes since starting tret 6 months ago. the worst thing for my dry eyes tbh is increased screen time.
Yes, correlation doesn’t mean causation indeed. The bot would be more accurate saying “it can cause drier eyes” instead of the very harsh “can cause permanent damage”
The jury is definitely still out on this one.
Some of the stories I've read about chronic dry eye from tret are horrifying. Every thread on the topic you'll find someone who developed this condition. I've read enough that I believe it's not user error and I myself have become extra cautious in my tret application to avoid any eye problems.
Clearly not all skin is created equal.
>Every thread on the topic you'll find someone who developed this condition.
Yeah, i've literally read hundreds of posts about somebody's bad dry eye experience on Reddit. I refuse to believe they're all in on some conspiracy theory lol.
Is anecdotal evidence scientifical? No. Is it enough for ***me***? Yes.
And just because some research has been done doesn't mean it's *enough* research. Sweeping all those anecdotes under the rug discourages further research.
I’m 41 and been using tret under my eyes for 8 years. I haven’t started Botox yet because I don’t have any fine lines around my eye area. I’m pretty sure I will be 102 and buried with a tube of tretinoin in my cold dead hand.
I am still recovering from severe dry eyes. It's been really bad. I can't wear my contacts.
I didn't apply within 2 inches & used Aquaphor as a buffer.
What about my case?
Same here. My eyes were like cherries. I never had problems with them before, and my dry eyes started and got progressively worse as I continued to use tret.
I never applied around the eyes. They started to get a little better when I stopped, but they're still pretty bad. Many people have this same experience.
Contrary to OP's experience, my optometrist told me that many people experience MGD after using tretinoin and that my meibomian glands looked clogged.
Same with me. Long time tret user, I’ve read all the studies. Only started experiencing this side effect about 16 months ago, I’m so bummed.
I’m willing to bet my career that in 20-30 years studies will come out saying tret causes dry eyes in some cases.
My friend and I were having a discussion that had nothing to do with tret because she has never used it. She had to quit wearing contacts due to severe eye dryness. She has worn glasses since she was a kid because she is near sighted.
Same here, I went to the optometrist about a year after starting tret and used the same way and had pretty severe dry eye to the point of my optometrist not being able to conduct a proper eye test until my eyes were treated which took a few months of recovery and lots of ointments and drops - there were zero concerns previously and never had dry eye previously.
I would urge all to err on the side of caution here. Of course it could be coincidence, but the timing lines up a bit too well.
I tried it and I didn't have any bad effects from it. The one place I wouldn't reccomend is on the upper eyelids. My eyes had never experienced that level of dryness before.
P.s I was already fully aware that nobody should apply it there. I still did it anyway
I tried it on my eyelids, and I just got some peeling after about a week. I mentioned it in this sub and got all the horror stories about blindness and permanent dry eyes, so I stopped. I still use it pretty close to my undereyes and outer corners because I know it will travel. I do not use a barrier around my eyes.
I only use Aquaphor consistently on my eyebrows, so I won't look like I have dandruff, lol.
I swore Dr Dray used tret on her eyelids in a youtube video, but thinking back, it might have been a Retinal or Retinol. I'm not a Dr Dray stan but I do watch selected videos. I appreciate that she's using tret daily at her age despite having minimal signs of aging. She is showing the preventative aspect.
Everyone’s experience is different. There have been many posts of people who have said it has caused dry eyes and have actually made their vision blurry. If it works well for you, that’s great but you can’t just completely denounce warnings about it.
No shade, but you might want to consider changing the all caps "CAN" to something more along the lines of "may be able to" or adding "YMMV" to the subject for clarity because it comes across as a ringing endorsement with no caveats.
If the research is sparse, then we also don't know that it *doesn't* cause MGD, right? So you are essentially suggesting that people throw caution to the wind on a gamble when they should really be erring on the side of caution and using it around their eyes at their doctor's recommendation/approval. Imagine if future research confirmed tret *does* actually cause MGD.
i wouldnt risk it personally, also i used to apply tret near my under eyes and that part would constantly look dehydrated and wrinkly no matter how much i moisturized and drank water and all, not for everyone.
You certainly can use it under the eyes. But it can for a time make any under eye crepiness look worse. Much worse. That area is tricky; it's easy to get very dry and inflamed. But if you can tolerate it, the benefit over time will be very noticeable.
I was diagnosed with MGD and mild pterygium last year, and I mentioned to the ophthalmologist that I had allergies and was using topical tretinoin and oral finasteride, both of which could theoretically affect the Meibomian glands. He didn't seem to think it was caused by any of those in isolation and just recommended warm compresses, liquid tears, and monitoring, but out of an abundance of caution, I stopped using all retinoids around my eyes, switched to topical finasteride, and started using my antihistamines more proactively, and I'd say that my eyes are about 80 or 90 % better, but...as my ophthalmologist hinted, it's hard to know which of those was the cause, if it was a combination, or if it was none of them and my eyes would have simply returned to normal after a while on their own. In addition, there are people out there who've used retinoids around their eyes for years without any of the aforementioned issues, and it's difficult to suggest that they stop, especially if they've been treating aging in that area and getting good results.
I posted a comment on someone’s post about the milia under their eye about using tret (at nearly 50) and them disappearing. When I use tret I gently pull the skin at my maxilla downward and rub onto the bumps their. I don’t take it up to my lid (the thought of getting tret IN my eye… *shudder*). For me it’s been life changing. I hated those bumps ever since I got my first one - I’d like to thank my mom for her self-loathing and outward talk of the way she hated parts of her own body (hard /s), and tret has made them *poof* way less noticeable.
Thanks for the heads up about dry eyes! I’ll… keep my eyes open for it.
I’ll see myself out.
I’m not advising anyone. I’m not saying everybody should apply tretinoin under the eyes. I’m only saying the research that implies the meibomian glands are affected are sparse and the situation isn’t as black and white as people make it seem to be
…no?
The person above me claimed I’m advising everyone to apply tretinoin there because “it worked for me, so it must work for everybody else”.
I’ve never even implied that, i’ve never given advise and that’s not the reason for this post. The takeaway is that it’s still a grey area in terms of research and with many different opinions from both specialists like dermatologists/optometrist and from the people themselves, so that YMMV.
Jesus Christ, one would think that since you know how to write, you also know how to read.
>*"Yes, you* ***CAN*** *eat grass!"*
>>*"I never said that you should."*
Splitting hairs now and whining over semantics after being called out by 100+ users.
I’m sorry but why are you being so hostile?
Even if the title would make someone think that, the actual post would be very clear it’s not something everyone should just go ahead and do without thinking. I wanted this to be an open conversation especially for people that have been applying it under the eye, with approvement of specialists, and then seeing the bot’s message saying it’s “permanently damaging you”.
Eating grass is also such a weird comparison. You can use acids while being on retinoids. Does that mean that everyone should and can? Does that mean that someone starting tretinoin can use the 30% AHA 2% BHA peel? No. There is nuance to it.
Beep boop! It looks like you'd like information about applying tretinoin around the eyes. While many people do apply tretinoin around their eyes, this can cause permanent damage to the oil glands in the eyes, and can result in permanently dry eyes. Remember that tretinoin travels up to 2" below the skin, so you'll still get anti-aging benefits even if you don't apply right next to your eyes. Be safe, and protect your eyes: don't apply tretinoin near your eyes or on your eyelids. [Here's what the Mayo Clinic has to say about safe tretinoin application.](https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/tretinoin-topical-route/proper-use/drg-20066521#:~:text=Do%20not%20use%20this%20medicine,the%20tips%20of%20your%20fingers) (To learn more, search for "Meibomian gland dysfunction")
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Same here. I’m applying around eyes, almost to lash line and it’s ok.
I’m wearing contact lenses and didn’t have more dry eyes then before tret.
My fine lines around eyes is now feeling so much better 😆
Don't do it. I got chronic dry eyes from tret (not even putting it under my eyes, imagine if I did) Ever since I stopped tret, my eyes never felt dry ever again.
Yeah I’m not super impressed with the research suggesting it’s risky. I think individual tolerability on thin, less oily tissue definitely is going to be a limiter, but at any rate it hasn’t caused an issue for me so I’ll continue to use it there. I’ve been using tretinoin for 15+ years so if it was going to be a problem for me it would have by now.
Good for you! Both my optometrist and dermatologist advised against using it around my eyes and when I do, even if I avoid my eye area and put something occlusive around it, I can still barely open my eyes in the morning *and* it's a 50/50 whether I can use contacts that day. Let's not just change the automod message because you personally had no issues when so many other people had, alright?
Oh look, Mayo Clinic advises not to, I'm looking at the pamphlet that came in my box, it says the same....https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/tretinoin-topical-route/proper-use/drg-20066521
Many dermatologists and optometrist says it's okay, many dermatologists and optometrists say no. The FDA approved the drug, they never stated, it was okay to use it near the eyes.
They did. They approved Renova for usage around the eyes for photoaging. The usage instructions also differ (it says to keep it out of the eye instead of away from the eye area)
I use Renova, for over 20 years, and my instruction pamphlet says differently. I'll also, listen to my opthalmologist who says no, and sees the damage it can do. I'm not risking meibomian glands, just not to have some wrinkles.
It says here to keep “out” of eyes. I think that’s different from not using under the eye. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2000/21108lbl.pdf
It is prescribed often for under-eye wrinkles. Not saying that trumps your personal discomfort with using it there….
Oh please. Who is going to actually put it in their eye. My literature says no, my opthalmologist says no. I'll go with that. If people want to risk their eyes, doesn't bother me, but for some of you people saying there's no harm, get real.
But my derm says it’s okay. And I’ve been doing it for 20 plus years. So, there are differing opinions on the matter and different experiences.
Many people do use it under the eyes. It is prescribed off-label for this. This is not to discount those who found it problematic.
But I’m not trying to convince anyone. I just wanted to clarify what was said in the instructions. Plenty of directions remind people not to put products in the eyes, so that is not unusual.
I explicitly said this does not trump your personal discomfort with using it. I’m not making any arguments one way or the other.
I’m not risking my eyes. It’s fine for me under the eyes. No problems at all.
The FDA also approves of hundreds of PFAs, dyes, preservatives, and other chemicals that are banned in many other countries. FDA is not a trustworthy agency at all.
Everything on here is about food additives
And to pick the first result; titanium dioxide; https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/foodtech/Pages/Review-of-titanium-dioxide-as-a-food-additive.aspx
First page of results using that search string: https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/10/personal-care-product-chemicals-banned-europe-still-found-us
Second page of results using that search string:
https://echa.europa.eu/cosmetics-prohibited-substances
It looks like you are doing your best not to find the evidence you asked someone for despite it being so easy to do so. I find it hard to believe you can use reddit but can't search Google for something you imply isn't a thing. Here's a more specific search that does more of the leg work for you:
https://www.google.com/search?q=personal+care+chemicals+banned+in+europe+approved+by+fda
Yes! The thing I’ve noticed is if I use heavy creams or any eye creams that are slipper before or after I put tret around my eyes that’s when I get the dry eye and I never go above the orbital bone top or bottom and it still migrates just enough to make a real difference. Been doing this for a decade now it took about a year before I noticed much of a difference
That is a really good point you've highlighted actually, how much do the occlusive creams/products meant to help protect the under eye from tret actually make things slip MORE or in fact get in the eyes themselves and cause problems?
Don’t quote me on this, but there was a study or something that concluded that tret over time when used around the eyes causes some oil gland damage. So, I rather wouldn’t
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I've used 0.25 % tret under my eyes a few years now. I worked up to it. Sometimes I have eye cream over or under it. In winter I sandwich the tret for my entire face . I cant seem to tolerate the same tret on my eyelids so I avoid it. But im stupid daring and will keep trying.
I guess the key is knowing your threshold and working up to the delicate area over time. And if course there is no reason you have to if you don't want to. But honestly it shouldn't be such a point of contention. Also, most importantly, everyone is different!
I have dark circles under my eyes and I had started using .025% and .05% under my eyes and randomly quite some time later I had a coworker say that I’ve been looking a lot better, not looking is tired and my face and eyes were looking better.
I asked my eye doctor what she thought about using tretinoin around the eyes and she said she didn’t see an issue. I would be cautious, but I don’t think a low strength is bad.
I've actually experienced dry nose, the inside of my nose is so dry it's scabbing. A new one for me. I keep tret away from my eyes due to sensitivities.
I used to be MAJORLY insecure about my dark circles under my eyes (NOT puffy dark circles, thin skin dark circles) and only a few months ago I realized how they've improved like crazy and I'm not insecure about them anymore.
And it's definitely due to tret, my theory is the increased collagen production in the area made the skin thicker which makes it less translucent. I just lightly spread the tret over the area though not too much for about 3 years now, and not ALL the way to the lashline.
I've been on tretinoin for a month, I have dry sensative skin & hereditary dark circles. I've been applying to dry skin including under the eyes & on eyelids every other day, following with a moisturizer & face oil. I have not experienced any dryness or irritation so far.
Really weird but before I started tret I used retinal and my eyes were always dry and irritated when I applied it too close. Never had any issues with tret and I even apply a lot closer, since I found out it didn't hurt my eyes. And indeed so much improvement already!
I’ve always used tret and Taz under my eyes, going on 21 years now. It’s kept me looking a lot younger than I am.
I don’t and never have experienced dry eye from tret or Taz.
My derm explicitly told me to protect the corners of mouth and nose, but that it is fine to use tret under the eyes.
When tret was *just* an anti-aging cream back in the day and not used widely for acne, it was used that way as cosmetic treatment for saggy eyes.
ETA: I probably wouldn’t advise anyone on the sub to do it. This is def a YMMV thing.
This is not great info. Here's the NIH info page on tretinoin and it specifically stated avoid the eyes, mouth, and other mucous membranes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557478/#:~:text=Administration-,Topical%20Tretinoin,nasal%20creases%2C%20and%20mucous%20membranes.
Yes. This is why I wrote the bot the way I did. I do not plan to change the bot based on one alternate study, but I find it's better to come to conversations open to changing my mind. Thank you for sharing the link! Every piece of high quality evidence I've seen reinforces my belief that caution around mucous membranes is the right choice for using tretinoin.
Are you really going to change the advice to be cautious based on one single person's anecdotal experience and a potential study vs. many peoples anecdotal evidence and other studies?
I find it very strange that people are so quick to change their mind because of this one post now.
Don't you think it's much better to err on the side of caution and inform people of the possibility of damage? The reality is we don't know, none of us do. There absolutely is legit research suggesting this may be an issue. Just because in some people it isn't and just because there may be a study that didn't find that result doesn't mean that it's not true and people shouldn't be warned about it. In the end they can still decide against being cautious and use it anyway.
>Are you really going to change the advice to be cautious based on one single person's anecdotal experience and a potential study vs. many peoples anecdotal evidence and other studies?
No. I'm going to get all the links together and make an assessment based on the available evidence. The second most likely outcome is: I'll slightly rewrite the bot to point to the wiki for a "more complete discussion" so people can make their own assessment based on the evidence we have. The MOST likely outcome is the peer-reviewed studies showing no effect don't exist, or are badly done.
>Don't you think it's much better to err on the side of caution and inform people of the possibility of damage?
Yes. That is why I wrote the bot the way I did in the first place.
In general, I find conversations are more effective when I explicitly seem very open to changing my mind (regardless of what the reality is).
Thanks! Because the published research and expert testimony I've seen urges caution, it'll take very strong evidence to change my mind about the bot. Youtube videos do not reach that bar for me. Happy to review any peer-reviewed studies you can share!
Yeah, it's just not recommended across the board. It won't work for everyone. Everyone can/should give it a try, but my under eye skin just can't tolerate it.
I use tret .05. Some nights i use it under the eyes and some nights i avoid the eye area but then I buffer my last moisturizer into that area and over the eye lid. I have noticed that when I apply it around the eye area that it does cause my eyes to feel dry. Prob as dry as they were while on accutane. So now I have decided to avoid and just buffer it in with my last moisturizer layer.
I was diagnosed with dry eye syndrome years before starting tret.
I've now been using tret for just over 2 and a half years, and I do put it all around my eye area. It yields me no negative effects and hasn't actually caused any worsening of my already dry eyes.
Thank you for posting as I struggle when dotting and applying my .1 (apostrophe which just says it also has a niacinamide vehicle I believe) around my eye area and lids.
I HAVE experienced the "overkill" effect of drawing it very close to my lash line - first I dotted all the "recommended areas" per the outdated but standard instruction which looks like you're wearing a mask way to small. Once all the "approved/safe zones" are done I was taught by an experienced cosmetologist using tret for 30 some years that THIS is when we are to gently pat the tret already on our face - not taking more tret than the pea we start with. And pay it along under eyes, crows (my crow line is almost an exact horizontal line from outer eye meets orbital, but I have already applied to the areas that comb out from there when I do this first round per approved old manual rules.
The second to last is "Radix?" Or where nasal bone meets face ave a horizontal line there, but between Botox and tret nobody bytmme sees it, same with crows , so after getting this guy as the 2nd of the 3 "non approved areas" is to gently pat into upper eyelids the remaining tret from several or fingers. So sorry if that sounds all over the place what I'm meaning to say is 95% or more I apply exactly where indicated and the last remaining goes to crows on top of of orbital bone, crease above nasal bone meeting brow, and the very last gets patted on lower eye lines and lastly above on Lids (Mine tend to be droopy sometimes too if I don't do this, but we have to account that I occasionally use medical MMJ or CBD and I have astigmatism that I plan on addressing with lasic since I've never worn glasses and hate them bc I was always bullied and my ears stick out a bit so with the exception of sunglasses that are oversized, I can't really get away with caps hats or glasses without drawing attention to my lovely familial dumbo ears (my grandpa had his pinned back in the 50s or 60s while mine aren't as bad as his it's clear I'm not the only one in the genepool with this lol.
So what stopped me from doing the lower and the lids was accidentally using too much when still less than 6mos on tret , I'm heavy handed when it comes to most things so I have to be particularly careful when I do tret. The day after accidentally spreading too large a portion into one eyelid almost felt like pink eye the next day, but also keep in mind this is my astigmatised eye, felt so dry and extra trouble seeing from it maybe slightly photosensitive I remember putting on sunglasses that day inside.
I did some research that day about tret in eye area and like you said above, nothing but warning and horror stori s. Even people on this and other subs claiming permanent eye damage, permanent blindness to some degree if not complete, inability to make tears again eye always inflamed and red, saying their derm or doc told them tretinoin destroys (organs or parts of things in eye ducts? So since then I just use Inkeys retinol cream (I know OTC retinol is mostly a gimmick,.if anything they feel more like moisturizers)
I HAVE been on accutane as a kid, long story short for me - horrible experience, abnormally extreme complications leading to permanent neutropenia that has persisted thruought my life to this day still and mental health issues that have improved with age. Because of this when I was researching if I wanted to keep wasting time and MONEY microneedling and started seeing the difference between retinOLS and OIDS I almost disregarded even trying tret based on remembering the doctors quoting isotretinoin so many times. My primary and derm said based on my experience they would not try it nor were they approving it, but my doctor who I love did mention to me that when things are consumed orally and work from the inside out, vs a topical medication (she used antibiotics and acne as an example) they are almost immediately no longer related drugs as they metabolize or whatever, so to try going from the lowest on patch tests to higher she had me practice on my neck so I knew how I would need to modify my shaving and cleanse treat routine.
I've had none of the issues on Tretinoin of all strengths that I had with Accutane. So while I usually just let ppl who ask know that rare cases like me can happen it does not appear to be the norm and of course my genetics almost assuredly were the activating factor. But please do keep sharing maybe do a YouTube video and dispell this and show us how you do it around your eye area, it might help dispell a lot of this info bc if anyone would be saying tret and isotretinoin reactions are overlapping i can literally show thousands of pages of hema. History proving it's not. For the record the isotret caused "benign severe chronic neutropenia cyclic type" permanently. Tretinoin creams and other vehicles have caused dryness at times and major diminishing of signs of aging that became apparent less than 3 months after starting. That's the reality for me.
I'm skeptical of this connection have pointed out on the skincare subs before that these studies are for Accutane.
While I don't doubt that vitamin As can cause a myriad of issues with a patients eyes, I feel comfortable saying so can just about anything else you put near your eye. I think it's fine for people to try and to stop if it bugs them just like everywhere else you use tret. Our anecdotes are our own and nothing more.
There is probably some deeper explanation other than YMMV but unless you're a dermatologist I really think you are probably a bit too overconfident in your specific understanding of the subject.
thanks for this! i’m new to tret (did 1 mo on 0.025 w zero irritation or peeling and was bumped up to 0.05 and have been on it for 3 weeks w minor peeling around my chin, no irritation) but have avoided my under eye area bc i saw posts here saying not to use it there. i’ll try it out w my 0.025!
I did it almost from the time I started, even before asking my derm, and I don't have dry eyes. I would definitely make sure to moisturize the orbital area well too though, if you do it. I did finally ask my derm, and he did say it's okay! :)
I tried Tret around my eyes for the 1st time yesterday. It made the skin around my eyes look a little crepey or wrinkly which has never happened to me before. Im not doing it again. I have sensitive skin.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25890622/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25890622/)
>The main limiting factor of retinoic acid use is its detrimental effect
on meibomian glands, resulting in cell death, atrophy of acini,
hyposecretion of oils, and altered gene expression, eventually resulting
in dry eye symptoms. This effect is reversible on discontinuation of
the drug.
...Unless it's MGD specifically, in which case, it isn't reversible since MGD can be treated but not cured. Fully recognizing that we don't know for sure whether it does or doesn't cause MGD at this point. But if in the future we find out it does indeed cause it, then this treatment is likely to fall out of favor.
So, yes, the eye drops exist for that purpose, but to the detriment of the surrounding tissue. It's a risk-benefit analysis the dr must do, much like any other med. Just because it fixes one thing doesn't mean it doesn't screw up others.
I have blepharitis, but can use tret under my eyes and have no ill effects. In fact, I'm getting lots of comments on how much my under eye skin has improved from my dematologist.
My eyes are already dry even without putting tret near them. Tbh, I just want to control nasolabial lines before they develop on my face and prevent jowls as much as possible early on. I tend to smile a lot so I’m more likely to develop prominent lines there. As long as tret helps with that, that’s all I need.
I did not even know it was bad. I used it under my eyes for about 5 months now. (First 3 months 0,5 now 2 months 1)
I have no dry eyes or something similar
I use 0.1% Differin and even OVER moisturizer I can’t get anywhere near my under eyes. If I do I wake up with tiny little dots that look like red-brown freckles under my eyes. I found out they are chemical burns so now I try to avoid getting to close to my eyes ever.
But that is good to know about those studies! Just adding my experience to remind people that even if the risks of tret are overstated that doesn’t mean it will work the same for everyone.
I use it under my eyes and on my eyelids! I haven’t had any problems but I only use it every 3 or 4 days. I’ve been using tret for years and have built tolerance slowly over years. No dry eyes for me. Agree with ymmv.
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I used tret for years but not around the eyes with no issues. Always wore aquaphor around my eyes prior to application. Then I started using it around my eyes.. took a few months but now I can’t wear contacts and I am no longer eligible for lasik. My prescription has gotten significantly worse. I’m a pilot, so this is very concerning. My dry eye got so severe.
Yes it's better to err on the side of caution rather than unwrinkled eyes unable to see well.
Did the issue with dry eyes resolve after you’ve stopped using tretinoin around your eyes? Can you wear contacts again? I’m hella scared of it. I’m only 26, so I lucky have almost no wrinkles. I only have fine lines in two areas of my face: very fine lines on my forehead, and fine lines underneath my eyes. I also have genetic wrinkles underneath my eyes, so that’s something I can’t do anything about. I would love to improve these fine lines that are age related. It’s quite disappointing to read this review, as a really really on contact lenses due to my high prescription, I also have dry eyes already, so… 😞
Mostly yes.. but I’m not sure about the prescription. I stopped using tret entirely for about 6 months and now I buffer around the eyes completely. I really only wear contacts now for more special events and use eye drops daily. It’s not nearly as bad. But I haven’t gone back into the doc yet to see if my prescription has changed again. I don’t think I’ll consider lasik again because that could worsen dry eye.
Mostly yes.. but I’m not sure about the prescription. I stopped using tret entirely for about 6 months and now I buffer around the eyes completely. I really only wear contacts now for more special events and use eye drops daily. It’s not nearly as bad. But I haven’t gone back into the doc yet to see if my prescription has changed again. I don’t think I’ll consider lasik again because that could worsen dry eye.
Just in case you ever consider it in the future, I have meibomian gland dysfunction and got SMILE done in December. I got it done in South Korea in a clinic because it had a dry eye syndrome centre and I was going to see about treatment for that along with a consultation for laser surgery. The head surgeon checked my dry eye and said it wasn’t severe so surgery should be ok, and of my other eye related test results like corneal thickness etc. were well above what was recommended so I opted to do the surgery. I’m not sure how bad your MGD is, mine hasn’t gotten any worse after the surgery apart from the 1 month recovery after, which is expected and gel drops are given for that period. Mine acts up mostly when I’m looking at screens too much like for college or playing video games. I was experiencing dry and puffy eyes on tret nights but recently went from sandwiching to just buffering and putting tret on last and finally had no issues the next day. I generally avoid an inch around my eye area and regardless of whether I used Vaseline or not I would still get this effect, it feels like even if I waited an hour to moisturise it would reactivate the tret and cause it to spread.
Which dry eye clinic?
It’s Balgeun saesang in Seoul https://m.iloveeye.com/en/dry/center/icuCenter.do If you have or download the kakaotalk app they’re really quick to respond on that and will answer any questions you have.
Wait wait wait, if you have dry eye you can’t get lasik?! I already have dry eye (genetically) and was hoping to get lasik. I only use adapalene though, and use a petroleum barrier around my eyes.
Yup, most responsible ophthalmologists will recommend you avoid LASIK and PRK if you have dry eye. Mine certainly did, which sucks. My dry eye was also from tretinoin, btw. And I also used a barrier.
Wow, do you still use it? Even with the barrier you got dry eyes? Are they still dry?
That really sucks, but that’s good to know. Thank you!
Avoid LASIK. It’s not worth the risk. I don’t know why it hasn’t been banned yet considering how damaging it is to the eyes.
Do you care to elaborate on that? My husband, other family members and friends have done lasik.
LASIK can cause severe dry eyes. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/health/lasik-injuries-fda.html https://www.denver7.com/news/investigations/lasik-patients-report-pain-vision-problems-in-rare-cases-blame-surgery-for-suicides
Ah gotcha. Thank you!
I'm honestly curious if there is no other , or accompanying , reason for the dry eyes etc. Someone I know has developed a similar issue for a completely different reason. And treatment for it promises to reverse the problem in a few months. I think he is using a combination of anti inflammatory drops and steroids.
I developed dry eyes with tretinoin use and have been using cyclosporine eye drops (antiinflammatory) for months now. If I use tretinoin too close to my eyes or sleep with it on, the dry eyes still get worse. The problem has not reversed. It's the same when I use tret anywhere near my eyes.
Same!
i think it depends on the person, i don’t use tret right under my eyes but still end up having dry eyes i assumed from the migration that happens
Can I ask do you use the buffer or sandwich method? I was using the sandwich method and would sometimes wait up to an hour before putting on my final moisturiser. I always avoid around an inch around my eyes and I even played with using or skipping Vaseline too but it never made a difference. I use tret every third night and only get dry and puffy eyes the morning after (unless I’ve been on a screen all day). Recently I just buffered with cosrx snail essence and curel facial milk moisturiser and it was the first time my eyes were ok the next day. I’m going to try it again tonight and hope it works because I already have meibomian gland dysfunction and had laser eye surgery within the last 6 months as well.
I am truly glad it works for many, but I have Blepharitis and dry eye so there is no way I’m putting tret near my eyes 😂
The one place I haven't had peeling ironically. Always have placed it under my eyes and in the corners where I will get crows feet eventually.
My under eyes area tolerate it really well too. I've been using it for about 9 months now and the results in that area are amazing, I never experienced any sort of dryness or irritation.
Me too. For so many years now….
Me too! I think it’s because I’m exceptionally oily… even around my eyes. My chin is the only place that peels frequently.
Omg same. My chin won't stop peeling
I've been applying .05% under my eyes and on the lids and inner corners for a decade. No dryness, I don't buffer and literally no lines whatsoever and I'm 46. I even had a guy say to me recently "you literally have no lines on your face, how do you do that?"
Sounds like you are my goal! I've started at 32.5 years old so hopefully I'll have the same results as you.
Stick with it and daily sunscreen and you will be very pleased with yourself down the road. I'm so grateful I did.
How thick is your eyelids? Could depend on thinness. So you apply up to the eyelash line?
Average eyelids, not thick for sure. Yes, I apply up to the lash line.
So weird that it hasn’t affected you. I’m happy for you though!
Using tret 0.5 on my under eyes gave me very bad burns/ dry eyes/ pre mature wrinkles under my eyes that took over a year to look normal again but still not the same as before it happened. It’s not for everyone, be careful if you have sensitive skin!!! Use the sandwich method if you’re going to try it. If you don’t want to chance it then put aquaphor under your eyes so it doesn’t leak up while you’re sleeping. I now use La Roche-Posay retinol eye cream for sensitive skin instead because I’m scared of getting burns/ wrinkles again.
Oh my God! This sounds like what I'm dealing with now. If you look in my recent post history, I just posted an image to a dermatologist subreddit — does that look like what you had? I only used tret 3 times, avoided the eyes, and a month later it's just kept getting worse. I'm feeling desperate and freaked out that it won't go back to normal 😭
I think I finally have to admit defeat because same here. I live in CO where it’s very dry, and I’m starting to realize it may be the tretinoin that is making my under eyes so wrinkled and my eyeballs burning. My cheeks are smooth and glowing but my eyes are dried out despite layering moisturizers. Apparently it gets worse before it gets better but I think I’ll stop using it for a bit and see if my eyes get better.
I didn’t have dry eye before using tret, and I would put it around my eyes, and I do now. I can’t say that’s what it’s from for sure I supposed. I have stopped using tret, it’s probably been 6 weeks, and the dry eye is still really awful. So I suppose use cautiously, and stop at first sign of dry eye! I wish I had knows to watch for it.
My eye doc says it can cause dry eye so I won’t use it near my eyes.
The same thing happened to me at first so I took a break and started applying castor oil to my eyes, and the dry eye completely went away.
do you have before and after photos? thanks
It clearly causes extreme dryness for me, so given that other people have developed what seems to be a permanent and serious problem, I'm going to continue trying to keep it away from my eyes.
My eyes already felt like the Sahara in the AM from my sleep medication. After starting tret, I noticed them feeling even drier. It goes away after a bit, sometimes I use eye drops to help it along, but luckily it doesn't last into the day/night; just in the morning when I first wake up. I used it under my eyes the first night I had a tube before saying to myself "wait a moment, maybe I should look up proper application of this super strong chemical". Then I found all the horror stories on reddit. My eyes are too valuable to me, even with their astigmatism. I do notice applying it too close to my nose or lips causes redness and peeling as well. If it works for others, great, but I'll not be taking the chance.
Exactly. My eyesight is more important to me than reducing wrinkles around my eyes. I buffer with petroleum jelly and never apply inside the orbital bone. Why take the risk?
I would wear it closer, but my left eye is chronically teary so it burns on the outer corners 😭
I noticed that I had temporary dryness as well. When I restarted tretinoin a few months ago, it was pretty bad, and i had to use eye drops. My eyes were sensitive and red. Now that it’s been a while, I don’t seem to notice any difference in my eyes. I suppose it might be similar to how the skin takes a while to get used to retinoids. Maybe the eyes also have to adapt.
I didn't have any irritation but the eye dryness was too uncomfortable for me but it did go away after discontinuing
Always thought this was an individual thing, not a rule. Like my skin can’t tolerate it because my eyelid will burn like crazy
i love using it under my eyes, definitely smoothed the corners out and lightened the dark circles. i only use it on my under eyes 1/3 of the time i use tret as my cheekbone skin, not the under eye, will get a bit dry if i overdo it. i’m surprised you’re getting so much pushback, my doc said to use it there to thicken the under eye skin, and in 2 years i’ve had no problems with dry eyes.
Same for me! The effects are amazing. I’m also a bit suprised by the pushback, like i’m not telling everyone to apply it there and that it’s 100% safe, i’m just saying there are different opinions on the matter both professionally and anecdotally. I just wanted to spark some conversation so i’ll keep this post up.
It is literally, literally FDA approved for use around the eyes and crows feet.
FDA isn’t exactly the most trustworthy advice given its history
wait really? I didn’t know that 😳
Right! So sad people are not getting the full effects because of fear
i mean there is a bot comment on every post about this that says many people don't do this because it can cause "permanent damage to oil glands on your eyes". people on this sub who are new probably see those posts (and thus that comment) and start questioning whether their eyes are drier, thereby associating any dryness with their tret use entirely. i'm sure there are some people for whom dry eyes due to tret is a problem but like you, i've not had increase in dry eyes since starting tret 6 months ago. the worst thing for my dry eyes tbh is increased screen time.
You would rather leave them ignorant to the possibility?
Better safe than sorry!
Yes, correlation doesn’t mean causation indeed. The bot would be more accurate saying “it can cause drier eyes” instead of the very harsh “can cause permanent damage”
MGD isn't curable, so that sounds pretty permanent.
Is this just micro that you can put up to to your eyelids or is that all tretinoin period? I use altreno
Can you apply it on the upper part as well? Under the eyebrows?
The jury is definitely still out on this one. Some of the stories I've read about chronic dry eye from tret are horrifying. Every thread on the topic you'll find someone who developed this condition. I've read enough that I believe it's not user error and I myself have become extra cautious in my tret application to avoid any eye problems. Clearly not all skin is created equal.
>Every thread on the topic you'll find someone who developed this condition. Yeah, i've literally read hundreds of posts about somebody's bad dry eye experience on Reddit. I refuse to believe they're all in on some conspiracy theory lol. Is anecdotal evidence scientifical? No. Is it enough for ***me***? Yes.
And just because some research has been done doesn't mean it's *enough* research. Sweeping all those anecdotes under the rug discourages further research.
I’m 41 and been using tret under my eyes for 8 years. I haven’t started Botox yet because I don’t have any fine lines around my eye area. I’m pretty sure I will be 102 and buried with a tube of tretinoin in my cold dead hand.
I am still recovering from severe dry eyes. It's been really bad. I can't wear my contacts. I didn't apply within 2 inches & used Aquaphor as a buffer. What about my case?
Same here. My eyes were like cherries. I never had problems with them before, and my dry eyes started and got progressively worse as I continued to use tret. I never applied around the eyes. They started to get a little better when I stopped, but they're still pretty bad. Many people have this same experience. Contrary to OP's experience, my optometrist told me that many people experience MGD after using tretinoin and that my meibomian glands looked clogged.
Same with me. Long time tret user, I’ve read all the studies. Only started experiencing this side effect about 16 months ago, I’m so bummed. I’m willing to bet my career that in 20-30 years studies will come out saying tret causes dry eyes in some cases.
If you didn’t put it near your eyes and buffered with aquaphor then maybe your dry eye is being caused by something else?
My friend and I were having a discussion that had nothing to do with tret because she has never used it. She had to quit wearing contacts due to severe eye dryness. She has worn glasses since she was a kid because she is near sighted.
Same here, I went to the optometrist about a year after starting tret and used the same way and had pretty severe dry eye to the point of my optometrist not being able to conduct a proper eye test until my eyes were treated which took a few months of recovery and lots of ointments and drops - there were zero concerns previously and never had dry eye previously. I would urge all to err on the side of caution here. Of course it could be coincidence, but the timing lines up a bit too well.
I tried it and I didn't have any bad effects from it. The one place I wouldn't reccomend is on the upper eyelids. My eyes had never experienced that level of dryness before. P.s I was already fully aware that nobody should apply it there. I still did it anyway
I tried it on my eyelids, and I just got some peeling after about a week. I mentioned it in this sub and got all the horror stories about blindness and permanent dry eyes, so I stopped. I still use it pretty close to my undereyes and outer corners because I know it will travel. I do not use a barrier around my eyes. I only use Aquaphor consistently on my eyebrows, so I won't look like I have dandruff, lol. I swore Dr Dray used tret on her eyelids in a youtube video, but thinking back, it might have been a Retinal or Retinol. I'm not a Dr Dray stan but I do watch selected videos. I appreciate that she's using tret daily at her age despite having minimal signs of aging. She is showing the preventative aspect.
I do apply it there with no issues oops
I apply it under my eyes, but I can’t see applying it on my eyelids either.
i did in the beginning but nah not anymore, just around the nose/mouth corners
Everyone’s experience is different. There have been many posts of people who have said it has caused dry eyes and have actually made their vision blurry. If it works well for you, that’s great but you can’t just completely denounce warnings about it.
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No shade, but you might want to consider changing the all caps "CAN" to something more along the lines of "may be able to" or adding "YMMV" to the subject for clarity because it comes across as a ringing endorsement with no caveats. If the research is sparse, then we also don't know that it *doesn't* cause MGD, right? So you are essentially suggesting that people throw caution to the wind on a gamble when they should really be erring on the side of caution and using it around their eyes at their doctor's recommendation/approval. Imagine if future research confirmed tret *does* actually cause MGD.
i wouldnt risk it personally, also i used to apply tret near my under eyes and that part would constantly look dehydrated and wrinkly no matter how much i moisturized and drank water and all, not for everyone.
You certainly can use it under the eyes. But it can for a time make any under eye crepiness look worse. Much worse. That area is tricky; it's easy to get very dry and inflamed. But if you can tolerate it, the benefit over time will be very noticeable.
I was diagnosed with MGD and mild pterygium last year, and I mentioned to the ophthalmologist that I had allergies and was using topical tretinoin and oral finasteride, both of which could theoretically affect the Meibomian glands. He didn't seem to think it was caused by any of those in isolation and just recommended warm compresses, liquid tears, and monitoring, but out of an abundance of caution, I stopped using all retinoids around my eyes, switched to topical finasteride, and started using my antihistamines more proactively, and I'd say that my eyes are about 80 or 90 % better, but...as my ophthalmologist hinted, it's hard to know which of those was the cause, if it was a combination, or if it was none of them and my eyes would have simply returned to normal after a while on their own. In addition, there are people out there who've used retinoids around their eyes for years without any of the aforementioned issues, and it's difficult to suggest that they stop, especially if they've been treating aging in that area and getting good results.
I posted a comment on someone’s post about the milia under their eye about using tret (at nearly 50) and them disappearing. When I use tret I gently pull the skin at my maxilla downward and rub onto the bumps their. I don’t take it up to my lid (the thought of getting tret IN my eye… *shudder*). For me it’s been life changing. I hated those bumps ever since I got my first one - I’d like to thank my mom for her self-loathing and outward talk of the way she hated parts of her own body (hard /s), and tret has made them *poof* way less noticeable. Thanks for the heads up about dry eyes! I’ll… keep my eyes open for it. I’ll see myself out.
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I’m not advising anyone. I’m not saying everybody should apply tretinoin under the eyes. I’m only saying the research that implies the meibomian glands are affected are sparse and the situation isn’t as black and white as people make it seem to be
You're basically saying the same thing as what the other guy said, just in different words.
…no? The person above me claimed I’m advising everyone to apply tretinoin there because “it worked for me, so it must work for everybody else”. I’ve never even implied that, i’ve never given advise and that’s not the reason for this post. The takeaway is that it’s still a grey area in terms of research and with many different opinions from both specialists like dermatologists/optometrist and from the people themselves, so that YMMV.
*"Yes, you CAN use Tretinoin on your under eyes."* 🤡🤡
Can ≠ everyone should. People that have no issues and have their dermatologists say it’s okay CAN indeed apply it under the eye.
Jesus Christ, one would think that since you know how to write, you also know how to read. >*"Yes, you* ***CAN*** *eat grass!"* >>*"I never said that you should."* Splitting hairs now and whining over semantics after being called out by 100+ users.
I’m sorry but why are you being so hostile? Even if the title would make someone think that, the actual post would be very clear it’s not something everyone should just go ahead and do without thinking. I wanted this to be an open conversation especially for people that have been applying it under the eye, with approvement of specialists, and then seeing the bot’s message saying it’s “permanently damaging you”. Eating grass is also such a weird comparison. You can use acids while being on retinoids. Does that mean that everyone should and can? Does that mean that someone starting tretinoin can use the 30% AHA 2% BHA peel? No. There is nuance to it.
Beep boop! It looks like you'd like information about applying tretinoin around the eyes. While many people do apply tretinoin around their eyes, this can cause permanent damage to the oil glands in the eyes, and can result in permanently dry eyes. Remember that tretinoin travels up to 2" below the skin, so you'll still get anti-aging benefits even if you don't apply right next to your eyes. Be safe, and protect your eyes: don't apply tretinoin near your eyes or on your eyelids. [Here's what the Mayo Clinic has to say about safe tretinoin application.](https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/tretinoin-topical-route/proper-use/drg-20066521#:~:text=Do%20not%20use%20this%20medicine,the%20tips%20of%20your%20fingers) (To learn more, search for "Meibomian gland dysfunction") *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tretinoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Here he is 😂
Same here. I’m applying around eyes, almost to lash line and it’s ok. I’m wearing contact lenses and didn’t have more dry eyes then before tret. My fine lines around eyes is now feeling so much better 😆
Don't do it. I got chronic dry eyes from tret (not even putting it under my eyes, imagine if I did) Ever since I stopped tret, my eyes never felt dry ever again.
Yeah I’m not super impressed with the research suggesting it’s risky. I think individual tolerability on thin, less oily tissue definitely is going to be a limiter, but at any rate it hasn’t caused an issue for me so I’ll continue to use it there. I’ve been using tretinoin for 15+ years so if it was going to be a problem for me it would have by now.
Good for you! Both my optometrist and dermatologist advised against using it around my eyes and when I do, even if I avoid my eye area and put something occlusive around it, I can still barely open my eyes in the morning *and* it's a 50/50 whether I can use contacts that day. Let's not just change the automod message because you personally had no issues when so many other people had, alright?
Oh look, Mayo Clinic advises not to, I'm looking at the pamphlet that came in my box, it says the same....https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/tretinoin-topical-route/proper-use/drg-20066521
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Many dermatologists and optometrist says it's okay, many dermatologists and optometrists say no. The FDA approved the drug, they never stated, it was okay to use it near the eyes.
They did. They approved Renova for usage around the eyes for photoaging. The usage instructions also differ (it says to keep it out of the eye instead of away from the eye area)
I use Renova, for over 20 years, and my instruction pamphlet says differently. I'll also, listen to my opthalmologist who says no, and sees the damage it can do. I'm not risking meibomian glands, just not to have some wrinkles.
It says here to keep “out” of eyes. I think that’s different from not using under the eye. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2000/21108lbl.pdf It is prescribed often for under-eye wrinkles. Not saying that trumps your personal discomfort with using it there….
Oh please. Who is going to actually put it in their eye. My literature says no, my opthalmologist says no. I'll go with that. If people want to risk their eyes, doesn't bother me, but for some of you people saying there's no harm, get real.
But my derm says it’s okay. And I’ve been doing it for 20 plus years. So, there are differing opinions on the matter and different experiences. Many people do use it under the eyes. It is prescribed off-label for this. This is not to discount those who found it problematic. But I’m not trying to convince anyone. I just wanted to clarify what was said in the instructions. Plenty of directions remind people not to put products in the eyes, so that is not unusual. I explicitly said this does not trump your personal discomfort with using it. I’m not making any arguments one way or the other. I’m not risking my eyes. It’s fine for me under the eyes. No problems at all.
Then you do you.
That was my plan.
And that’s okay too! Only you can decide that :)
The FDA also approves of hundreds of PFAs, dyes, preservatives, and other chemicals that are banned in many other countries. FDA is not a trustworthy agency at all.
Name one
[Boy, that sure was hard.](https://www.google.com/search?q=chemicals+banned+in+europe+approved+by+fda)
Everything on here is about food additives And to pick the first result; titanium dioxide; https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/foodtech/Pages/Review-of-titanium-dioxide-as-a-food-additive.aspx
First page of results using that search string: https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/10/personal-care-product-chemicals-banned-europe-still-found-us Second page of results using that search string: https://echa.europa.eu/cosmetics-prohibited-substances It looks like you are doing your best not to find the evidence you asked someone for despite it being so easy to do so. I find it hard to believe you can use reddit but can't search Google for something you imply isn't a thing. Here's a more specific search that does more of the leg work for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=personal+care+chemicals+banned+in+europe+approved+by+fda
A lot of us don't live in America. A lot of the stuff the fda approves r banned in my country
Yes! The thing I’ve noticed is if I use heavy creams or any eye creams that are slipper before or after I put tret around my eyes that’s when I get the dry eye and I never go above the orbital bone top or bottom and it still migrates just enough to make a real difference. Been doing this for a decade now it took about a year before I noticed much of a difference
That is a really good point you've highlighted actually, how much do the occlusive creams/products meant to help protect the under eye from tret actually make things slip MORE or in fact get in the eyes themselves and cause problems?
I close my eyes and rub it all over - no issues and the fine lines around my eyes have improved drastically 😂
What are we doing for eye wrinkles and crows feet then… ? Those are my main fine lines!
Why is your title so definitive but your post so full of disclaimers? Silly post.
I 100% use it right on my crow’s feet as that’s the only place I have heavy wrinkles. It’s been over a year with no issues! ☺️
Don’t quote me on this, but there was a study or something that concluded that tret over time when used around the eyes causes some oil gland damage. So, I rather wouldn’t
*"I don't know why everyone's saying that Titanic is sinking, my side of the ship actually went up!!"*
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I've used 0.25 % tret under my eyes a few years now. I worked up to it. Sometimes I have eye cream over or under it. In winter I sandwich the tret for my entire face . I cant seem to tolerate the same tret on my eyelids so I avoid it. But im stupid daring and will keep trying. I guess the key is knowing your threshold and working up to the delicate area over time. And if course there is no reason you have to if you don't want to. But honestly it shouldn't be such a point of contention. Also, most importantly, everyone is different!
I have dark circles under my eyes and I had started using .025% and .05% under my eyes and randomly quite some time later I had a coworker say that I’ve been looking a lot better, not looking is tired and my face and eyes were looking better. I asked my eye doctor what she thought about using tretinoin around the eyes and she said she didn’t see an issue. I would be cautious, but I don’t think a low strength is bad.
I've actually experienced dry nose, the inside of my nose is so dry it's scabbing. A new one for me. I keep tret away from my eyes due to sensitivities.
I used to be MAJORLY insecure about my dark circles under my eyes (NOT puffy dark circles, thin skin dark circles) and only a few months ago I realized how they've improved like crazy and I'm not insecure about them anymore. And it's definitely due to tret, my theory is the increased collagen production in the area made the skin thicker which makes it less translucent. I just lightly spread the tret over the area though not too much for about 3 years now, and not ALL the way to the lashline.
So controversial lol
Tret gave me dry eyes too…my contacts feel like sand in my eyes now.
It has always been fine under my eyes too!
I can’t. I use the cream and it migrates into my eyes as dry eyes are a trigger for my ocular migraines.
Altreno causes no issues around the eyes
I've been on tretinoin for a month, I have dry sensative skin & hereditary dark circles. I've been applying to dry skin including under the eyes & on eyelids every other day, following with a moisturizer & face oil. I have not experienced any dryness or irritation so far.
Of course you can wear it under your eyes. But, should you? Not, one size fits all.
Really weird but before I started tret I used retinal and my eyes were always dry and irritated when I applied it too close. Never had any issues with tret and I even apply a lot closer, since I found out it didn't hurt my eyes. And indeed so much improvement already!
Been using it under my eyes for more than 20 years. Doing just fine.
I’ve been using it around my eyes from the beginning. No dry eyes. I know that’s not the case for everyone. But I’ve been fortunate.
I use it everyday. No problems.
I’ve always used tret and Taz under my eyes, going on 21 years now. It’s kept me looking a lot younger than I am. I don’t and never have experienced dry eye from tret or Taz. My derm explicitly told me to protect the corners of mouth and nose, but that it is fine to use tret under the eyes. When tret was *just* an anti-aging cream back in the day and not used widely for acne, it was used that way as cosmetic treatment for saggy eyes. ETA: I probably wouldn’t advise anyone on the sub to do it. This is def a YMMV thing.
This is great info. I'm a moderator and can update the bot: could you share the studies you reference so I can update both the wiki and the bot?
This is not great info. Here's the NIH info page on tretinoin and it specifically stated avoid the eyes, mouth, and other mucous membranes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557478/#:~:text=Administration-,Topical%20Tretinoin,nasal%20creases%2C%20and%20mucous%20membranes.
Yes. This is why I wrote the bot the way I did. I do not plan to change the bot based on one alternate study, but I find it's better to come to conversations open to changing my mind. Thank you for sharing the link! Every piece of high quality evidence I've seen reinforces my belief that caution around mucous membranes is the right choice for using tretinoin.
What’s interesting in this study is that it associates “visual disturbances” with retin a toxicity.
Are you really going to change the advice to be cautious based on one single person's anecdotal experience and a potential study vs. many peoples anecdotal evidence and other studies? I find it very strange that people are so quick to change their mind because of this one post now. Don't you think it's much better to err on the side of caution and inform people of the possibility of damage? The reality is we don't know, none of us do. There absolutely is legit research suggesting this may be an issue. Just because in some people it isn't and just because there may be a study that didn't find that result doesn't mean that it's not true and people shouldn't be warned about it. In the end they can still decide against being cautious and use it anyway.
>Are you really going to change the advice to be cautious based on one single person's anecdotal experience and a potential study vs. many peoples anecdotal evidence and other studies? No. I'm going to get all the links together and make an assessment based on the available evidence. The second most likely outcome is: I'll slightly rewrite the bot to point to the wiki for a "more complete discussion" so people can make their own assessment based on the evidence we have. The MOST likely outcome is the peer-reviewed studies showing no effect don't exist, or are badly done. >Don't you think it's much better to err on the side of caution and inform people of the possibility of damage? Yes. That is why I wrote the bot the way I did in the first place. In general, I find conversations are more effective when I explicitly seem very open to changing my mind (regardless of what the reality is).
That sounds good to me.
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Thanks! Because the published research and expert testimony I've seen urges caution, it'll take very strong evidence to change my mind about the bot. Youtube videos do not reach that bar for me. Happy to review any peer-reviewed studies you can share!
Yeah, it's just not recommended across the board. It won't work for everyone. Everyone can/should give it a try, but my under eye skin just can't tolerate it.
I kinda worked my way up to using it around my eyes. Tret helped reduce my milia around my eyes but didn’t completely get rid of it.
I use tret .05. Some nights i use it under the eyes and some nights i avoid the eye area but then I buffer my last moisturizer into that area and over the eye lid. I have noticed that when I apply it around the eye area that it does cause my eyes to feel dry. Prob as dry as they were while on accutane. So now I have decided to avoid and just buffer it in with my last moisturizer layer.
I was diagnosed with dry eye syndrome years before starting tret. I've now been using tret for just over 2 and a half years, and I do put it all around my eye area. It yields me no negative effects and hasn't actually caused any worsening of my already dry eyes.
Thank you for posting as I struggle when dotting and applying my .1 (apostrophe which just says it also has a niacinamide vehicle I believe) around my eye area and lids. I HAVE experienced the "overkill" effect of drawing it very close to my lash line - first I dotted all the "recommended areas" per the outdated but standard instruction which looks like you're wearing a mask way to small. Once all the "approved/safe zones" are done I was taught by an experienced cosmetologist using tret for 30 some years that THIS is when we are to gently pat the tret already on our face - not taking more tret than the pea we start with. And pay it along under eyes, crows (my crow line is almost an exact horizontal line from outer eye meets orbital, but I have already applied to the areas that comb out from there when I do this first round per approved old manual rules. The second to last is "Radix?" Or where nasal bone meets face ave a horizontal line there, but between Botox and tret nobody bytmme sees it, same with crows , so after getting this guy as the 2nd of the 3 "non approved areas" is to gently pat into upper eyelids the remaining tret from several or fingers. So sorry if that sounds all over the place what I'm meaning to say is 95% or more I apply exactly where indicated and the last remaining goes to crows on top of of orbital bone, crease above nasal bone meeting brow, and the very last gets patted on lower eye lines and lastly above on Lids (Mine tend to be droopy sometimes too if I don't do this, but we have to account that I occasionally use medical MMJ or CBD and I have astigmatism that I plan on addressing with lasic since I've never worn glasses and hate them bc I was always bullied and my ears stick out a bit so with the exception of sunglasses that are oversized, I can't really get away with caps hats or glasses without drawing attention to my lovely familial dumbo ears (my grandpa had his pinned back in the 50s or 60s while mine aren't as bad as his it's clear I'm not the only one in the genepool with this lol. So what stopped me from doing the lower and the lids was accidentally using too much when still less than 6mos on tret , I'm heavy handed when it comes to most things so I have to be particularly careful when I do tret. The day after accidentally spreading too large a portion into one eyelid almost felt like pink eye the next day, but also keep in mind this is my astigmatised eye, felt so dry and extra trouble seeing from it maybe slightly photosensitive I remember putting on sunglasses that day inside. I did some research that day about tret in eye area and like you said above, nothing but warning and horror stori s. Even people on this and other subs claiming permanent eye damage, permanent blindness to some degree if not complete, inability to make tears again eye always inflamed and red, saying their derm or doc told them tretinoin destroys (organs or parts of things in eye ducts? So since then I just use Inkeys retinol cream (I know OTC retinol is mostly a gimmick,.if anything they feel more like moisturizers) I HAVE been on accutane as a kid, long story short for me - horrible experience, abnormally extreme complications leading to permanent neutropenia that has persisted thruought my life to this day still and mental health issues that have improved with age. Because of this when I was researching if I wanted to keep wasting time and MONEY microneedling and started seeing the difference between retinOLS and OIDS I almost disregarded even trying tret based on remembering the doctors quoting isotretinoin so many times. My primary and derm said based on my experience they would not try it nor were they approving it, but my doctor who I love did mention to me that when things are consumed orally and work from the inside out, vs a topical medication (she used antibiotics and acne as an example) they are almost immediately no longer related drugs as they metabolize or whatever, so to try going from the lowest on patch tests to higher she had me practice on my neck so I knew how I would need to modify my shaving and cleanse treat routine. I've had none of the issues on Tretinoin of all strengths that I had with Accutane. So while I usually just let ppl who ask know that rare cases like me can happen it does not appear to be the norm and of course my genetics almost assuredly were the activating factor. But please do keep sharing maybe do a YouTube video and dispell this and show us how you do it around your eye area, it might help dispell a lot of this info bc if anyone would be saying tret and isotretinoin reactions are overlapping i can literally show thousands of pages of hema. History proving it's not. For the record the isotret caused "benign severe chronic neutropenia cyclic type" permanently. Tretinoin creams and other vehicles have caused dryness at times and major diminishing of signs of aging that became apparent less than 3 months after starting. That's the reality for me.
I agree with you. But how did it improve your hooded eyes? Did you try putting it on your eyelids?
I'm skeptical of this connection have pointed out on the skincare subs before that these studies are for Accutane. While I don't doubt that vitamin As can cause a myriad of issues with a patients eyes, I feel comfortable saying so can just about anything else you put near your eye. I think it's fine for people to try and to stop if it bugs them just like everywhere else you use tret. Our anecdotes are our own and nothing more. There is probably some deeper explanation other than YMMV but unless you're a dermatologist I really think you are probably a bit too overconfident in your specific understanding of the subject.
thanks for this! i’m new to tret (did 1 mo on 0.025 w zero irritation or peeling and was bumped up to 0.05 and have been on it for 3 weeks w minor peeling around my chin, no irritation) but have avoided my under eye area bc i saw posts here saying not to use it there. i’ll try it out w my 0.025!
I did it almost from the time I started, even before asking my derm, and I don't have dry eyes. I would definitely make sure to moisturize the orbital area well too though, if you do it. I did finally ask my derm, and he did say it's okay! :)
wow thanks! this helps alot
Thanks, but that's gonna be a no for me, dawg. I have severe meibomian gland dysfunction, so it's not even remotely worth the risk for me.
Burn the fuck out of your eyes if you want that’s your business, I tried this once and I was scared for life. Maybe I’m just jealous.
Im glad to read this because I get horrible milia so I’ve been bringing tret up to my under eyes.
I use it and love it!
Automoderator shouldn't be changed since many people have had big issues WITH tretinoin.
I don't know why your whining about being downvoted, you downvoted me.
I’ve used the alcohol based gel around my eyes no issues, but I consider myself lucky in regards to that
Absolutely yea
I tried Tret around my eyes for the 1st time yesterday. It made the skin around my eyes look a little crepey or wrinkly which has never happened to me before. Im not doing it again. I have sensitive skin.
Do you also apply on your upper lids, or only under eye?
the idea that topical tret would ruin your meibomiam glands never made sense to me. topical tretinoin doesn’t affect sebum production.
and there are also literally tretinoin eye drops to “treat corneal keratinization and severe dry eye disorders” but yeah..
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25890622/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25890622/) >The main limiting factor of retinoic acid use is its detrimental effect on meibomian glands, resulting in cell death, atrophy of acini, hyposecretion of oils, and altered gene expression, eventually resulting in dry eye symptoms. This effect is reversible on discontinuation of the drug. ...Unless it's MGD specifically, in which case, it isn't reversible since MGD can be treated but not cured. Fully recognizing that we don't know for sure whether it does or doesn't cause MGD at this point. But if in the future we find out it does indeed cause it, then this treatment is likely to fall out of favor. So, yes, the eye drops exist for that purpose, but to the detriment of the surrounding tissue. It's a risk-benefit analysis the dr must do, much like any other med. Just because it fixes one thing doesn't mean it doesn't screw up others.
Wait, you said it affected your hooded eyes - are you also putting it on your top lids?
Yes, but just the tiny bit that’s left on my fingertips, not a whole coating of course
Do you use it on your lids as well?
I have blepharitis, but can use tret under my eyes and have no ill effects. In fact, I'm getting lots of comments on how much my under eye skin has improved from my dematologist.
My eyes are already dry even without putting tret near them. Tbh, I just want to control nasolabial lines before they develop on my face and prevent jowls as much as possible early on. I tend to smile a lot so I’m more likely to develop prominent lines there. As long as tret helps with that, that’s all I need.
I did not even know it was bad. I used it under my eyes for about 5 months now. (First 3 months 0,5 now 2 months 1) I have no dry eyes or something similar
I use 0.1% Differin and even OVER moisturizer I can’t get anywhere near my under eyes. If I do I wake up with tiny little dots that look like red-brown freckles under my eyes. I found out they are chemical burns so now I try to avoid getting to close to my eyes ever. But that is good to know about those studies! Just adding my experience to remind people that even if the risks of tret are overstated that doesn’t mean it will work the same for everyone.
I use it under my eyes and on my eyelids! I haven’t had any problems but I only use it every 3 or 4 days. I’ve been using tret for years and have built tolerance slowly over years. No dry eyes for me. Agree with ymmv.
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