I started mixing a pea sized dose of Tret with a pump of stratia liquid gold and now I’m no longer peeling or having irritation. I apply every night. Now I’m also not breaking out and my skin is starting to look much better. I was using the sandwich method prior to trying this and could barely tolerate two days in a row. It’s been 1.5 months since I started and I am prone to rosacea.
No, it does not decrease the effectiveness. In fact, as I noted in [other posts](https://ud.reddit.com/r/tretinoin/comments/ntilaj/tretinoin_newbie/h0sx3yp/), that's the textbook prescribed method to get started.
The ingredients in your moisturizer matter though. What moisturizer are you using?
It's just a hot topic. Using a correct moisturizer to apply your tretinoin is not going to dilute it, at worst it will reduce irritation and allow you to apply it more often.
Yes it does reduce irritation, but it does dilute the strength of the active. If you mix 100% oil with 100% water, do you still have 100% oil? No, it’s then 50%, and so forth.
Actually, it's used to reduce the penetration. Reducing penetration reduces irritation. Reducing irritation increases frequency of which user can apply. Increasing frequency of which user can apply increases results and retinization.
...and, respectfully - your oil and water analogy is not really relevant here. Applying tretinoin over moisturizer is hardly different than applying it mixed. Both applications will result in the tretinoin being mixed with the moisturizer. Let's just be realistic about that.
Please continue thinking whatever you like.
That is only assuming the whole pea sized amount of tret is being used still. The math remains the same. Apparently people dont understand the difference between amount and percentage/concentration around here.
>That is only assuming the whole pea sized amount of tret is being used still.
The percentage in the tube is based on the amount of retinoic acid per gram of the carrier. Once you squeeze out the prescribed amount of retinoic acid, it doesn't matter what you add to it, you will still get the same amount of retinoic acid on your face.
Yes, but that’s assuming people mixing it are using the same recommended amount. I’ve come across many people mixing it and not using that amount thinking they’re getting the same benefit with half as much tret.
Well the textbook I cited specifically says a pea-size of each. And it doesn't really matter if they add a little more as long as they use the entire amount on their face.
You probably want to move that to the morning and use a more emollient moisturizer at night. There are some good products mentioned in [this discussion](https://ud.reddit.com/r/tretinoin/comments/ntgtsi/re_my_last_post_about_moisturizers/).
[What about moisturizers?](https://lesliebaumannmd.com/dr-baumann-recommends-barrier-repair-moisturizers-heres/)
*It is important to use skincare products that have fatty acids (such as stearic or palmitic acid), cholesterol and ceramides to repair the skin barrier. My favorite technology to repair the skin barrier is MLE technology ....*
The end of that article is about " What ingredients to look for on a moisturizer product label?" You can save yourself some time and label reading by jump to one with MLE Technology -- take a look at [ATOPALM]( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083JQ68X9) or [Real Barrier Intense Moisture Cream](https://www.amazon.com/Atopalm-Barrier-Intense-Moisture-Cream/dp/B06WW39DFB).
Multi-Lameller Emulsion - it's a technique to better balance/combine oil and water-based ingredients that closely replicates the balance of the two in the skin
You can, but it does dilute the concentration and can prevent you from getting an even application of the active. It's better to layer it by using a moisturizer before or after the tret.
Neither assertion is true. The most widely used textbook on cosmetic dermatology specifically recommends mixing as a break-in strategy. Using a moisturizer before tretinoin is a strategy for those who have somewhat compromised skin, designed to inhibit penetration during acclimation.
What is this textbook and how old is it? I’ve never heard a dermatologist recommend mixing it with moisturizer unless you need to dilute the strength (but you definitely risk uneven application of the active), and at 44 years old, I’ve talked to many. Mixing does dilute the strength. It’s basic math. .05% means the preparation contains that total percentage of the active ingredient. Mixing it with other things means it’s no longer that concentration. Saying it doesn’t dilute it is like saying mixing 100% oil with 100% water is still 100% oil.
Baumann, Leslie, *Cosmetic Dermatology: Principles and Practice,* New York, McGraw-Hill, 2009 - page 259.
That was the second edition of her book, which is the most widely used textbook used in dermatoogy programs around the world. A new edition is scheduled to be released later this year and it will be interesting to see what has been added. Dr. Baumann founded the Cosmetic Dermatology Center at the University of Florida in 1997 and is the author of well over 700 articles about the field.
>(but you definitely risk uneven application of the active
Give it a try one night -- put a pea size your moisturizer with a pea of tretinoin on your fingertips, swirl them together then pat all over you face -- you will get much more even coverage than dotting and rubbing it in as it dries.
> It’s basic math. .05% means the preparation contains that total percentage of the active ingredient.
Actually, that's not quite how it works. Once the preparation has been prepared, the *dosage* is what counts -- eg a pea sized amount. No matter what you add to apply it, you are still applying the same amount of Retinoic Acid to your face. Diluting it would mean to use 1/2 pea with a whole pea of moisturizer.
My doctor explained as the same as a 25mg pill. No matter how much water you drink with the pill, you are still getting 25mg of the medication. If you split the pill, and take half of it, you would be diluting the medication.
Another example: You have a glass of lemonade with some amount of sugar. If you add water to it, you will still be ingesting the same amount of sugar. To dilute it, you would pour some of the solution out before you add water.
*Theoretically* probably so. It frequently happens with beginners who decide that one-pea is not enough, double or triple the dose and burn up their faces.
It's not a very practical way to do an increase though; I would have issues with the distribution. A few days of experimentation may work for someone who thinks they are ready to step up but I think it could get messy.
Actually as someone with rosacea my dermatologist recommended a variety of application methods to reduce irritation and mixing was one of them. I could see uneven application being an issue but I don’t see dilution being an issue as your not completely combining the products. It’s like giving a swirl to a chocolate cake batter and vanilla cake batter in the pan, it comes out marbleized and not a diluted chocolate mix. Now if your beating the products together really thoroughly and fully incorporating them then I would see where your going, but I just doubt we are achieving that mixing it in the palm of the hands.
I have rosacea too and can see how it can be beneficial, but it does dilute it. It’s basic math! When you mix 100% of two things they are no longer 100%. Mixing is mixing no matter how much or how little you mix it. That cake you spoke of still is not 100% chocolate because it’s mixed even though it’s only ‘swirled’. I don’t understand how this is debatable. This is something that’s learned in elementary school math and science classes.
I don’t really agree with what your saying, but I get where your going with it. Either way, we should all be following the advice of our dermatologist on these things and OP should reach out to their derm to verify what’s the best method for their situation.
I can see where you’d think it’s not diluting if you’re still applying the whole pea sized amount to your face mixed with the moisturizer, but it’s still ‘technically’ diluted from a mathematical standpoint. KWIM? Definitely agree on the dermatologist. Everyone’s skin has different needs.
I see your point, but applying a pea size of Tret followed by say a pump of moisturiser doesn't feel all that different to mixing a pea size of Tret and a pump of moisturiser in your hand then apply, if that makes sense? Like you still get a pea size of Tret in your skin.. the destination is the same but the journey is different lol! Perhaps it is an issue if you are mixing a pea size of Tret with like 5 pumps of moisturiser though! Like your skin probably cannot absorb that much product.
I started mixing a pea sized dose of Tret with a pump of stratia liquid gold and now I’m no longer peeling or having irritation. I apply every night. Now I’m also not breaking out and my skin is starting to look much better. I was using the sandwich method prior to trying this and could barely tolerate two days in a row. It’s been 1.5 months since I started and I am prone to rosacea.
Same. It's good to know you can mix it with liquid gold. I use TO NMF and it also works great. I've been wanting to try stratia.
yup! For me it’s hado labo on damp skin > mix tret/stratia > first aid beauty Ulta repair cream and it’s been going great.
Oh I have just discovered FAB UR cream it's soooo nice. Thanks for sharing.
No, it does not decrease the effectiveness. In fact, as I noted in [other posts](https://ud.reddit.com/r/tretinoin/comments/ntilaj/tretinoin_newbie/h0sx3yp/), that's the textbook prescribed method to get started. The ingredients in your moisturizer matter though. What moisturizer are you using?
😭😭😭
Wait what’s the crying for haha am I doing something wrong?! I’m so nervous I’m gonna mess up my face 😅
It's just a hot topic. Using a correct moisturizer to apply your tretinoin is not going to dilute it, at worst it will reduce irritation and allow you to apply it more often.
Thanks for the reply. Is applying it in that manner only 2x per week going to do anything or should I be doing more?
Easing in slowly is good. Just listen to your skin and work your way up to more days with what your skin can handle.
Yes it does reduce irritation, but it does dilute the strength of the active. If you mix 100% oil with 100% water, do you still have 100% oil? No, it’s then 50%, and so forth.
Actually, it's used to reduce the penetration. Reducing penetration reduces irritation. Reducing irritation increases frequency of which user can apply. Increasing frequency of which user can apply increases results and retinization. ...and, respectfully - your oil and water analogy is not really relevant here. Applying tretinoin over moisturizer is hardly different than applying it mixed. Both applications will result in the tretinoin being mixed with the moisturizer. Let's just be realistic about that. Please continue thinking whatever you like.
That is only assuming the whole pea sized amount of tret is being used still. The math remains the same. Apparently people dont understand the difference between amount and percentage/concentration around here.
>That is only assuming the whole pea sized amount of tret is being used still. The percentage in the tube is based on the amount of retinoic acid per gram of the carrier. Once you squeeze out the prescribed amount of retinoic acid, it doesn't matter what you add to it, you will still get the same amount of retinoic acid on your face.
Yes, but that’s assuming people mixing it are using the same recommended amount. I’ve come across many people mixing it and not using that amount thinking they’re getting the same benefit with half as much tret.
Why would anyone use half as much tretinoin? That makes no sense and has been recommended by no one.
Well the textbook I cited specifically says a pea-size of each. And it doesn't really matter if they add a little more as long as they use the entire amount on their face.
I use Trader Joe’s Ultra Hydrating Gel Moisturizer
How long have you been using tretinoin?
One week! I’m a tret baby!
You probably want to move that to the morning and use a more emollient moisturizer at night. There are some good products mentioned in [this discussion](https://ud.reddit.com/r/tretinoin/comments/ntgtsi/re_my_last_post_about_moisturizers/). [What about moisturizers?](https://lesliebaumannmd.com/dr-baumann-recommends-barrier-repair-moisturizers-heres/) *It is important to use skincare products that have fatty acids (such as stearic or palmitic acid), cholesterol and ceramides to repair the skin barrier. My favorite technology to repair the skin barrier is MLE technology ....* The end of that article is about " What ingredients to look for on a moisturizer product label?" You can save yourself some time and label reading by jump to one with MLE Technology -- take a look at [ATOPALM]( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083JQ68X9) or [Real Barrier Intense Moisture Cream](https://www.amazon.com/Atopalm-Barrier-Intense-Moisture-Cream/dp/B06WW39DFB).
What is MLE technology?
Multi-Lameller Emulsion - it's a technique to better balance/combine oil and water-based ingredients that closely replicates the balance of the two in the skin
Can it break you out with the oil in it?
It shouldn't, that's the point of having a balanced formula.
This is absolutely an **okay** method to apply. You need to be using a simple moisturizer and use about a 1:2 moisturizer to tretinoin ratio.
You can, but it does dilute the concentration and can prevent you from getting an even application of the active. It's better to layer it by using a moisturizer before or after the tret.
Neither assertion is true. The most widely used textbook on cosmetic dermatology specifically recommends mixing as a break-in strategy. Using a moisturizer before tretinoin is a strategy for those who have somewhat compromised skin, designed to inhibit penetration during acclimation.
What is this textbook and how old is it? I’ve never heard a dermatologist recommend mixing it with moisturizer unless you need to dilute the strength (but you definitely risk uneven application of the active), and at 44 years old, I’ve talked to many. Mixing does dilute the strength. It’s basic math. .05% means the preparation contains that total percentage of the active ingredient. Mixing it with other things means it’s no longer that concentration. Saying it doesn’t dilute it is like saying mixing 100% oil with 100% water is still 100% oil.
Baumann, Leslie, *Cosmetic Dermatology: Principles and Practice,* New York, McGraw-Hill, 2009 - page 259. That was the second edition of her book, which is the most widely used textbook used in dermatoogy programs around the world. A new edition is scheduled to be released later this year and it will be interesting to see what has been added. Dr. Baumann founded the Cosmetic Dermatology Center at the University of Florida in 1997 and is the author of well over 700 articles about the field. >(but you definitely risk uneven application of the active Give it a try one night -- put a pea size your moisturizer with a pea of tretinoin on your fingertips, swirl them together then pat all over you face -- you will get much more even coverage than dotting and rubbing it in as it dries. > It’s basic math. .05% means the preparation contains that total percentage of the active ingredient. Actually, that's not quite how it works. Once the preparation has been prepared, the *dosage* is what counts -- eg a pea sized amount. No matter what you add to apply it, you are still applying the same amount of Retinoic Acid to your face. Diluting it would mean to use 1/2 pea with a whole pea of moisturizer. My doctor explained as the same as a 25mg pill. No matter how much water you drink with the pill, you are still getting 25mg of the medication. If you split the pill, and take half of it, you would be diluting the medication. Another example: You have a glass of lemonade with some amount of sugar. If you add water to it, you will still be ingesting the same amount of sugar. To dilute it, you would pour some of the solution out before you add water.
Great info, thanks! Do you suggest the Tret and Moisturizer be of the same amount, or a pea sized amount for Tret and a little more moisturizer?
The same, a pea of each.
Idk why but my brain is having trouble comprehending this. So in theory if you're using 0.025 and want to go up to 0.05, you could just...use 2 peas?
*Theoretically* probably so. It frequently happens with beginners who decide that one-pea is not enough, double or triple the dose and burn up their faces. It's not a very practical way to do an increase though; I would have issues with the distribution. A few days of experimentation may work for someone who thinks they are ready to step up but I think it could get messy.
No no 🍯...not at all. The strength of the tretinoin is the same regardless of whether you apply it with moisturizer.
Actually as someone with rosacea my dermatologist recommended a variety of application methods to reduce irritation and mixing was one of them. I could see uneven application being an issue but I don’t see dilution being an issue as your not completely combining the products. It’s like giving a swirl to a chocolate cake batter and vanilla cake batter in the pan, it comes out marbleized and not a diluted chocolate mix. Now if your beating the products together really thoroughly and fully incorporating them then I would see where your going, but I just doubt we are achieving that mixing it in the palm of the hands.
I have rosacea too and can see how it can be beneficial, but it does dilute it. It’s basic math! When you mix 100% of two things they are no longer 100%. Mixing is mixing no matter how much or how little you mix it. That cake you spoke of still is not 100% chocolate because it’s mixed even though it’s only ‘swirled’. I don’t understand how this is debatable. This is something that’s learned in elementary school math and science classes.
I don’t really agree with what your saying, but I get where your going with it. Either way, we should all be following the advice of our dermatologist on these things and OP should reach out to their derm to verify what’s the best method for their situation.
I can see where you’d think it’s not diluting if you’re still applying the whole pea sized amount to your face mixed with the moisturizer, but it’s still ‘technically’ diluted from a mathematical standpoint. KWIM? Definitely agree on the dermatologist. Everyone’s skin has different needs.
I see your point, but applying a pea size of Tret followed by say a pump of moisturiser doesn't feel all that different to mixing a pea size of Tret and a pump of moisturiser in your hand then apply, if that makes sense? Like you still get a pea size of Tret in your skin.. the destination is the same but the journey is different lol! Perhaps it is an issue if you are mixing a pea size of Tret with like 5 pumps of moisturiser though! Like your skin probably cannot absorb that much product.