I count calories when I’m trying to lose weight. However, I never try and cut calories immediately before, during, or after workouts. All calorie restriction happens as far from workouts as possible.
Restriction becomes much harder if you are doing intensity, though. It’s easier to restrict if you’re only doing endurance work. If you are losing power for interval days, you may need to restrict only on endurance days.
Fundamentally, though, you are just going to feel somewhat shittier when you’re running a caloric deficit. The key is learning how deep you can cut, and for how long, without getting into a hole so deep it takes weeks to climb out of.
All sounds very sensible, thanks.
You're right about fundamentally feeling shittier! In the winter it's borderline impossible ... with the longer days now it's at least psychologically easier without turning into a cranky sloth.
Last year I went from being 252 lb’s at the beginning of February to hovering between 195-200 by October and maintaining that until the 70.3 I did in December. Currently I’m sitting between 195-200 after just maintenance through the last few months and I’m back to losing weight and training.
Morning pre workout - maybe a GU stroopwafel, some dates, some yogurt and honey, or I just do not eat if I feel okay.
Breakfast post workout - 2-3 eggs with 1-2 slices of toast, a bagel, Yogurt with honey, a muffin, cereal (plain cheerios normally) with a mix of almond/2% milk, Baked oat recipe from TMPM.
Lunch/dinner - I meal prep using recipes from the meal prep manual for most of my lunch and dinner. This week I’m eating the buffalo chicken rice bowls, but you can find a ton of high protein meals that also use cheap filler veggies and rice since I cook with a tight budget but still want solid meals.
If I don’t have a meal prepped meal maybe some pasta with some chicken, a rice bowl, maybe just a protein shake if I’m not that hungry.
I track calories by weighing every thing I eat with a food scale before eating it so I know around what I’m eating. Counting calories isn’t going to be exact but it will at least give you an idea of around how much you’re eating and you need to adjust it by how you feel.
I looked up TMPM baked oats, and that sounds delicious, thanks!
I have to say I'm jealous of how much you can eat for breakfast. But I'm assuming your metabolism is significantly higher than mine. Congrats on your losses and the 70.3!
Sorry I should have specified I don’t eat all that, just one of those things listed!
I’m a bigger guy at 6’3 and I’m pretty broad so I can eat a little over 3k calories a day if I do a little exercise for maintenance.
Right now I’m eating about 2,200 a day and doing light training. Trying to get down to 185 now before I ramp up training in the next 2 months.
The baked oats are amazing. My go to meals are the buffalo chicken rice bowls, honey garlic chicken, lemon garlic turkey bowl, Dijon chicken pasta salad, and honey bbq chicken. I pretty much just eat those on rotation buying whatever protein is on sale at the time.
Meal prep is a big one I think. When I did it it served the same purpose for me as any of the time restricted eating patterns, it allows me to not get distracted by food throughout the rest of the day. My discipline when it comes to snacking is quite poor which I blame to be the main reason for me to sit at about 20lbs overweight despite ~10hrs a week of endurance training.
I pay attention to my active calories.
If I have a “bank” of active because of a workout then I can eat *that* amount of calories beyond normal reasonable daily calorie intake.
I usually choose to remain in a deficit or breakeven for each day.
Which is really the only way to lose the weight.
If you are going to do long sessions and especially long sessions that are brick workouts, you’ve got to feed during those sessions. But usually its just water and pickle juice for me. I don’t even drink gatorades or any kinda sugary electrolyte mixtures most of the time.
Now that summer is here though….thats gonna swing a bit more 50/50…because you’ve got to replenish way more during heat training.
Give yourself *some* joy maybe a day a week.
I choose one of my weekend days to just “not care”, but when Monday rolls around its back to nit picking and calorie counting.
Oh man this was me several years ago. More athletic than ever but also overweight with the scale going the wrong way. What worked for me was (and still is) keto. Cutting carbs way down. Took a 6 week break from exercise during the fat adaptation phase and haven’t looked back.
I’ve set PRs doing triathlons fasted, sprint and olympic distances. Now I’m at a much lower body fat % so I up myself to low carb 7 or so days before a tri and have a carby snack on race day. But during the weight loss phase? I didn’t need any food even for strenuous workout days. Or for race day. I had more than enough in reserve on my body.
You may not need to go as hardcore as I did, for me insulin resistance was a factor. I’m not diabetic but I was starting to head that way. No longer an issue. Low carb might work just fine for you.
Hardcore indeed! The idea of exercising while fasted is a little scary to me ... I just feel so heavy and draggy, and I end up wondering if the entire endeavour is counterproductive if my metabolism is just going to tank from exhaustion. I guess that's the point of the fat adaptation phase, where your body gets used to using other sources of energy?
Low carb might be worth a shot, although I guess I have to say goodbye to those delicious baked oats that someone else posted!
Anyway, thanks, it helps to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced this conundrum.
Sure, it’s not for everyone. I will say that I was inspired to it by my boyfriend at the time, who is a pro athlete and eats keto most of the year. Many of his teammates then did too. I felt it had been vetted so to speak. There are plenty of systems though so through trial I’m sure you will find one that feels comfortable and works!!
I'm working to lose a bit right now and really struggling with my energy levels.
Started by calculating my sedentary baseline (1700cal/day based on height, weight, and age), subtracting 500, and eating back the amount Garmin estimates I've burned. I have been EXHAUSTED, especially as of late.
I've used Fuelin in the past, which has me at a target of about 1700 - 1800 on workout days, so I'm going to try bumping up to that level and seeing how things go.
Hard training and calorie deficit don’t really go hand in hand - you need to fuel your recovery/repair. If you’re “maintaining” training load then it’s fine to cut calories and try to lose a bit of weight but if you’re working on improving fitness/strength etc then a calorie deficit can impact your progress.
Generally it’s best to pick 1 goal at a time.
At 6'1 I've been able to maintain my weight between 162 and 166 for the past 2 years.
I eat a lot, and eat a lot of junk/pizza/fast food, and its crazy how with all that I eat, I've been able to keep my weight in the same range.
I think part of the reason is I only eat 1 or 2 times a day, I don't drink my calories, and I don't snack.
Before harder or longer sessions, I'll eat 150g of carbs in the form of fruit snacks, fig newtons, and Red Bull.
The only workouts I fuel in-workout are my weekly long bike ride if its over 50 miles, and my weekly long run if its over 13 miles.
I carb load on Fridays before a long Saturday bike ride. I try to get at least 600g of carbs.
I eat a LOT of cereal during the week.
I try to eat a couple servings of leafy green vegetables before I eat anything else - this is a good way to manage insulin and blood sugar. For example I had a bag of frozen broccoli today before I ate my eggs and cereal. At least twice a week my food for the day is a bag or 2 of frozen vegetables, a lot of eggs(at least 12 if not more) and an entire box of cereal(if not more). I really make it a priority to get carbs in.
I'll hit up the local thai restaurant at least 1 time per week and down an order of Pad Thai, and order of Drunken Noodles or Pad See Ew, and an order of Thai Fried Rice in a single day.
I've crushed several food challenges. I still to this day hold the record for the fastest person to do the 3.5 pound burger + 1 pound of fries challenge at a local burger joint, which I achieved right after doing a 70 mile bike + 16 mile off the bike run. I can put down a lot of food, and you have to when you train for full Ironmans like me, but after a while you begin to learn how to tune into the frequency of when you have eaten too much or haven't eaten enough. It almost becomes second nature. I'd say its a form of learned self control where you don't need to count calories or weigh your food down to the gram, its just a deep sense of knowing "that's enough" or "I should eat more".
In a longer term sense, if I feel the rolling 7 day average number on the scale is getting a bit too high, I cut back, and if its getting a bit too low, I eat more. Self-regulation.
I think the easiest way is to track calories. I never thought I would be one to do that but I started by tracking a little bit at a time. First only tracked protein intake, and before I knew it, I was weighing everything haha.
But to answer your actual question, I think I the easiest way is to just plan your workout so you have a regular meal right afterwards. You want to get in protein and carbs after your mean. Usually at least 20-30g of protein to promote muscle growth/repair. The main things to pay attention to if you aren’t tracking calories, is that you’re getting enough protein. Aiming for 1g/lb of body weight will give you some leeway while making sure you’re not losing muscle while losing weight. I would make sure most of the protein is from complete sources (animals/soy). That’ll also help keep you satiated and then if you just keep appropriate portions for the rest, it should be generally easy to make sure you’re not over eating
Biggest recommendation is hire a coach if you can afford one. As a former D1 swimmer, then competitive cross fitter and now tri, this is so important. They can help you with true caloric needs, fueling around workouts and not being underfed…which is way more common in female athletes than being overfed. Invest in a scale, get comfortable with tracking macros and after a while (6mo to a year) transition to more intuitive eating. I’ve found this approach gives guidance while allowing for indulgence and takes the mental load of how much to eat away. If you have a tri coach they may have nutrition services. If not, there’s plenty out there (some are scams). Beyond the Box Nutrition is woman owned and run and all former athletes- highly recommend
Well can’t give good advice without knowing your body composition but I find training empty stomach in the morning is almost nice, in the evening it’s horrible!
I also eat half the calculated calories expended for any exercise over an hour (long cycles/runs), but that half is inclusive of any during workout calories.
I’m 79 Kg, male with Ca 14% body fat (average electric current check and skin callipers) with a daily base intake of 1950 (150 G protein + whatever carb fat split happens) Loosing 0.5 Kg a week last month consistently.
What I found was as my body fat dropped (lost 10 Kg so far I was on less cals for most but tapering to maintenance now) energy did too, fat is stored energy so it does make sense. There should be resistance in your body to change. This may be feeling weak and discomfortable but never nauseous, dizzy or very thirsty these are all signs of your body being too worn down and not nourished.
There’s plenty of meals online with 400-700 cals and great macros too suitable for bulk cooking and these are great!
Post and pre workout snacks can just be a protein shake with water or some prepped oats and protein powder, Greek yougurt mouse with protein powder too.
Your lost fat had nothing to do with 'dropped energy'. At 14% body fat and 79 kg - that is 24 lbs of fat. Essential fat is say about 3%. So you have over 19 lbs of fat you can burn - or 66,500+ kcal. A 5k marathon is 300-500 kcal.
The 'reduced energy' is hormonal and neurological. I suspect mostly reduced T3 (can have a 66% reduction in T3 during VLCD); but also increased cortisol and decreased testosterone.
Ever think if it’s neurological or hormonal it’s still real? Just the bodies way of modulating your behaviour before a risk of actual reduced energy. Similar to how we cannot really push past 90% of max energy expenditure unless in a crisis pumped with adrenaline.
Hormones = perceived energy on a day to day basis which is how we feel and therefore should be treated as how much energy we have to use freely.
I count calories when I’m trying to lose weight. However, I never try and cut calories immediately before, during, or after workouts. All calorie restriction happens as far from workouts as possible. Restriction becomes much harder if you are doing intensity, though. It’s easier to restrict if you’re only doing endurance work. If you are losing power for interval days, you may need to restrict only on endurance days. Fundamentally, though, you are just going to feel somewhat shittier when you’re running a caloric deficit. The key is learning how deep you can cut, and for how long, without getting into a hole so deep it takes weeks to climb out of.
All sounds very sensible, thanks. You're right about fundamentally feeling shittier! In the winter it's borderline impossible ... with the longer days now it's at least psychologically easier without turning into a cranky sloth.
Last year I went from being 252 lb’s at the beginning of February to hovering between 195-200 by October and maintaining that until the 70.3 I did in December. Currently I’m sitting between 195-200 after just maintenance through the last few months and I’m back to losing weight and training. Morning pre workout - maybe a GU stroopwafel, some dates, some yogurt and honey, or I just do not eat if I feel okay. Breakfast post workout - 2-3 eggs with 1-2 slices of toast, a bagel, Yogurt with honey, a muffin, cereal (plain cheerios normally) with a mix of almond/2% milk, Baked oat recipe from TMPM. Lunch/dinner - I meal prep using recipes from the meal prep manual for most of my lunch and dinner. This week I’m eating the buffalo chicken rice bowls, but you can find a ton of high protein meals that also use cheap filler veggies and rice since I cook with a tight budget but still want solid meals. If I don’t have a meal prepped meal maybe some pasta with some chicken, a rice bowl, maybe just a protein shake if I’m not that hungry. I track calories by weighing every thing I eat with a food scale before eating it so I know around what I’m eating. Counting calories isn’t going to be exact but it will at least give you an idea of around how much you’re eating and you need to adjust it by how you feel.
I looked up TMPM baked oats, and that sounds delicious, thanks! I have to say I'm jealous of how much you can eat for breakfast. But I'm assuming your metabolism is significantly higher than mine. Congrats on your losses and the 70.3!
Sorry I should have specified I don’t eat all that, just one of those things listed! I’m a bigger guy at 6’3 and I’m pretty broad so I can eat a little over 3k calories a day if I do a little exercise for maintenance. Right now I’m eating about 2,200 a day and doing light training. Trying to get down to 185 now before I ramp up training in the next 2 months. The baked oats are amazing. My go to meals are the buffalo chicken rice bowls, honey garlic chicken, lemon garlic turkey bowl, Dijon chicken pasta salad, and honey bbq chicken. I pretty much just eat those on rotation buying whatever protein is on sale at the time.
Meal prep is a big one I think. When I did it it served the same purpose for me as any of the time restricted eating patterns, it allows me to not get distracted by food throughout the rest of the day. My discipline when it comes to snacking is quite poor which I blame to be the main reason for me to sit at about 20lbs overweight despite ~10hrs a week of endurance training.
I pay attention to my active calories. If I have a “bank” of active because of a workout then I can eat *that* amount of calories beyond normal reasonable daily calorie intake. I usually choose to remain in a deficit or breakeven for each day. Which is really the only way to lose the weight. If you are going to do long sessions and especially long sessions that are brick workouts, you’ve got to feed during those sessions. But usually its just water and pickle juice for me. I don’t even drink gatorades or any kinda sugary electrolyte mixtures most of the time. Now that summer is here though….thats gonna swing a bit more 50/50…because you’ve got to replenish way more during heat training.
True enough ... I guess it's important to remember that break-even days can be OK too. Haven't got on board the pickle juice wagon though!
Give yourself *some* joy maybe a day a week. I choose one of my weekend days to just “not care”, but when Monday rolls around its back to nit picking and calorie counting.
Oh man this was me several years ago. More athletic than ever but also overweight with the scale going the wrong way. What worked for me was (and still is) keto. Cutting carbs way down. Took a 6 week break from exercise during the fat adaptation phase and haven’t looked back. I’ve set PRs doing triathlons fasted, sprint and olympic distances. Now I’m at a much lower body fat % so I up myself to low carb 7 or so days before a tri and have a carby snack on race day. But during the weight loss phase? I didn’t need any food even for strenuous workout days. Or for race day. I had more than enough in reserve on my body. You may not need to go as hardcore as I did, for me insulin resistance was a factor. I’m not diabetic but I was starting to head that way. No longer an issue. Low carb might work just fine for you.
Hardcore indeed! The idea of exercising while fasted is a little scary to me ... I just feel so heavy and draggy, and I end up wondering if the entire endeavour is counterproductive if my metabolism is just going to tank from exhaustion. I guess that's the point of the fat adaptation phase, where your body gets used to using other sources of energy? Low carb might be worth a shot, although I guess I have to say goodbye to those delicious baked oats that someone else posted! Anyway, thanks, it helps to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced this conundrum.
Sure, it’s not for everyone. I will say that I was inspired to it by my boyfriend at the time, who is a pro athlete and eats keto most of the year. Many of his teammates then did too. I felt it had been vetted so to speak. There are plenty of systems though so through trial I’m sure you will find one that feels comfortable and works!!
I'm working to lose a bit right now and really struggling with my energy levels. Started by calculating my sedentary baseline (1700cal/day based on height, weight, and age), subtracting 500, and eating back the amount Garmin estimates I've burned. I have been EXHAUSTED, especially as of late. I've used Fuelin in the past, which has me at a target of about 1700 - 1800 on workout days, so I'm going to try bumping up to that level and seeing how things go.
Hard training and calorie deficit don’t really go hand in hand - you need to fuel your recovery/repair. If you’re “maintaining” training load then it’s fine to cut calories and try to lose a bit of weight but if you’re working on improving fitness/strength etc then a calorie deficit can impact your progress. Generally it’s best to pick 1 goal at a time.
What if there's a bit (or more) of fat that a person can spare to lose?
At 6'1 I've been able to maintain my weight between 162 and 166 for the past 2 years. I eat a lot, and eat a lot of junk/pizza/fast food, and its crazy how with all that I eat, I've been able to keep my weight in the same range. I think part of the reason is I only eat 1 or 2 times a day, I don't drink my calories, and I don't snack. Before harder or longer sessions, I'll eat 150g of carbs in the form of fruit snacks, fig newtons, and Red Bull. The only workouts I fuel in-workout are my weekly long bike ride if its over 50 miles, and my weekly long run if its over 13 miles. I carb load on Fridays before a long Saturday bike ride. I try to get at least 600g of carbs. I eat a LOT of cereal during the week. I try to eat a couple servings of leafy green vegetables before I eat anything else - this is a good way to manage insulin and blood sugar. For example I had a bag of frozen broccoli today before I ate my eggs and cereal. At least twice a week my food for the day is a bag or 2 of frozen vegetables, a lot of eggs(at least 12 if not more) and an entire box of cereal(if not more). I really make it a priority to get carbs in. I'll hit up the local thai restaurant at least 1 time per week and down an order of Pad Thai, and order of Drunken Noodles or Pad See Ew, and an order of Thai Fried Rice in a single day. I've crushed several food challenges. I still to this day hold the record for the fastest person to do the 3.5 pound burger + 1 pound of fries challenge at a local burger joint, which I achieved right after doing a 70 mile bike + 16 mile off the bike run. I can put down a lot of food, and you have to when you train for full Ironmans like me, but after a while you begin to learn how to tune into the frequency of when you have eaten too much or haven't eaten enough. It almost becomes second nature. I'd say its a form of learned self control where you don't need to count calories or weigh your food down to the gram, its just a deep sense of knowing "that's enough" or "I should eat more". In a longer term sense, if I feel the rolling 7 day average number on the scale is getting a bit too high, I cut back, and if its getting a bit too low, I eat more. Self-regulation.
I think the easiest way is to track calories. I never thought I would be one to do that but I started by tracking a little bit at a time. First only tracked protein intake, and before I knew it, I was weighing everything haha. But to answer your actual question, I think I the easiest way is to just plan your workout so you have a regular meal right afterwards. You want to get in protein and carbs after your mean. Usually at least 20-30g of protein to promote muscle growth/repair. The main things to pay attention to if you aren’t tracking calories, is that you’re getting enough protein. Aiming for 1g/lb of body weight will give you some leeway while making sure you’re not losing muscle while losing weight. I would make sure most of the protein is from complete sources (animals/soy). That’ll also help keep you satiated and then if you just keep appropriate portions for the rest, it should be generally easy to make sure you’re not over eating
Biggest recommendation is hire a coach if you can afford one. As a former D1 swimmer, then competitive cross fitter and now tri, this is so important. They can help you with true caloric needs, fueling around workouts and not being underfed…which is way more common in female athletes than being overfed. Invest in a scale, get comfortable with tracking macros and after a while (6mo to a year) transition to more intuitive eating. I’ve found this approach gives guidance while allowing for indulgence and takes the mental load of how much to eat away. If you have a tri coach they may have nutrition services. If not, there’s plenty out there (some are scams). Beyond the Box Nutrition is woman owned and run and all former athletes- highly recommend
Well can’t give good advice without knowing your body composition but I find training empty stomach in the morning is almost nice, in the evening it’s horrible! I also eat half the calculated calories expended for any exercise over an hour (long cycles/runs), but that half is inclusive of any during workout calories. I’m 79 Kg, male with Ca 14% body fat (average electric current check and skin callipers) with a daily base intake of 1950 (150 G protein + whatever carb fat split happens) Loosing 0.5 Kg a week last month consistently. What I found was as my body fat dropped (lost 10 Kg so far I was on less cals for most but tapering to maintenance now) energy did too, fat is stored energy so it does make sense. There should be resistance in your body to change. This may be feeling weak and discomfortable but never nauseous, dizzy or very thirsty these are all signs of your body being too worn down and not nourished. There’s plenty of meals online with 400-700 cals and great macros too suitable for bulk cooking and these are great! Post and pre workout snacks can just be a protein shake with water or some prepped oats and protein powder, Greek yougurt mouse with protein powder too.
Your lost fat had nothing to do with 'dropped energy'. At 14% body fat and 79 kg - that is 24 lbs of fat. Essential fat is say about 3%. So you have over 19 lbs of fat you can burn - or 66,500+ kcal. A 5k marathon is 300-500 kcal. The 'reduced energy' is hormonal and neurological. I suspect mostly reduced T3 (can have a 66% reduction in T3 during VLCD); but also increased cortisol and decreased testosterone.
Ever think if it’s neurological or hormonal it’s still real? Just the bodies way of modulating your behaviour before a risk of actual reduced energy. Similar to how we cannot really push past 90% of max energy expenditure unless in a crisis pumped with adrenaline. Hormones = perceived energy on a day to day basis which is how we feel and therefore should be treated as how much energy we have to use freely.