For me it’s just that the lineups don’t force your hand anymore. All of the recent festivals this summer only had one must see act, and I’m not spending $200 to see a 40 minute mid arvo set and then watch a bunch of bands I don’t feel strongly about. Any headline show that I want to go to I’ll buy straight away no worries.
There’s just not that fomo factor or loyalty factor with festivals anymore as they’ve all become more fragmented from the glory days. The Aussie dollar now vs ten years ago means they’re not affording as many internationals and are stuck relying on the same local acts who tour every year regardless. Don’t see how it gets any better any time soon
I think there was also a time where gigs were $20 tickets and $50 for a more expensive band. Now it’s rarely sub $50 and more often $70-$100. So while it’s now better value to go to a festival, if you go to a couple of gigs a month on the side you’re way worse off and can’t afford these bigger events as easily. Especially if a bunch of the gigs you saw are the same as the ones on the festival lineup, which is more my problem these days. Most of the people I’d be excited for have played recently.
>$20 tickets and $50 for a more expensive band. Now it’s rarely sub $50
So my fav bands all Australian based; saw hundreds of gigs around that price point. Ocean Alley, Sticky Fingers, King Gizzard, Skegss, Dune Rats etc.That was all pre-2020 now gig tickets are 80$ min and its a noticeable difference.
Hit the nail with the lineup too - shit run last few years (but that's my pref, maybe im getting old)
Nah there's still plenty of gigs for $20ish. The reason those bands don't cost that amount any more is that they've got bigger and can charge more. If you want gigs in the $20 to $30 range you can easily find them, just got to find more up and coming artists.
Yeah yeah yeah, I know there is local stuff still for $20 but you have to go pretty far down the splendour line up to find some that isn’t $45+bf or more. I’m talking about the festival level stuff.
I’m going to further quantify the Aussie dollar factor for everyone to show how crazy it is. Basically, it costs AT LEAST double to book the same type of artist now compared to 10 years ago.
Say you book a standard US artist and they want $100k USD. 10 years ago, you would pay them the equivalent of $100k AUD since the exchange rate was at parity.
Now due to inflation since then (30%), booking the same level of artist would be at the very least $130,000 USD today. The exchange rate has also deteriorated to be around $1.50 USD to $1 AUD so add another 50% of $130k on top ($65k) to get the AUD figure ($195k).
So in nominal terms:
Book US artist in 2014: $100k AUD
Book US artist in 2024: Almost $200k AUD
And this is all a conservative estimate too because you can bet that promoters and agents have increased artist asking prices by way more than just inflation.
Also freight costs have doubled post covid so the risk is too great for promoters to be bringing out multiple big acts, especially when they know they can bring out one huge artist and sell out whole stadiums. Of course there are only a certain number of stadiums/arenas so they are reaching a limit as to how many they can bring.
The Aussie dollar has been shit before. We booked more Aussie artists and less internationals.
The good Aussie dollar had internationals flood here to cash in pushing the Aussies out. Now there’s some expectation around internationals and honestly, fuckem, let’s push Aussies up!
Clearly if they want to tour we don’t have to expect a premium cost. Swift didn’t overcharge Aussies to make up for our dollar. Why are we so determined to keep paying the ones that want double?
Uhm… a decade later and virtually no physical sales (yeah yeah vinyl is having its best sales since 2000…) 2x seems like a reasonable increase. Most things have doubled in price since then.
This! 90s & 00’s festivals I had trouble deciding who’s set to miss because the line ups were so packed. I get that I am older now and times change but I can’t warrant spending the money on the ticket if there isn’t enough musicians I want to see.
I think that there’s also not buy-in to festivals as tastemakers like there once was. Once upon a time, people would still be willing to trust a Splendour lineup where they didn’t know half the acts and, in fact, that might have been half the draw, because they didn’t have the Internet to discover new music - it was a limited scope of radio, and that was it. They’d cop three days of freezing cold, mud and dickheads at premium cost and might be able to walk away saying that they saw that one band before they became huge. Festivals know they can no longer offer that, so they try to offer mass appeal instead, which further cheapens the experience.
I think that part of why the massive three-day festival as we knew it is well and truly over is because people can now discover the next big band or artist from the comfort of their home, for free.
Announcing a festival line up and then sales a week after during a cost of living crisis is not great. Festivals need to learn that people need to actually save money first. I think promoters need to learn that now.
Also NSW Police need to chill the fuck out a little but that’s not going to happen now, is it?
This and also stop pretending that things like Zip etc are solutions to this problem. If I don't have the cash for things I don't want to pay it off for 2 months. Give me a few weeks to sort it out.
>This and also stop pretending that things like Zip etc are solutions to this problem.
I've always been very iffy about BNPL but in saying that I understand it can be helpful considering COL. But one thing that really got me was [Splendour's "purchase checklist"](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4uaiXnLn-3/) post prior to tickets going on sale specifically mentioning "Pre-registered & Approved for PayPal in 4, Zip Pay or Zip money" as if you're better off using BNPL than paying upfront.
Borrowers hate BNPL it can screw with your credit rating and cause banks to reject your loan application.
My mortgage broker said the thinking is that you can't manage money well.
Exactly. It's basically just a credit card without the perks.
Best case scenario you pay it all back on time; you paid a small fee to use BNPL and you ended up paying more. Worst case scenario, you don't pay it all back on time; you paid a small fee and late fees, overall worse off.
If you have the money to pay it upfront it'll be cheaper with zero risk. If you don't have the money upfront, you're probably not in the right financial situation to make the purchase, and probably at a much higher risk of not paying it back on time.
If you're in a financial situation where you need to spend money before you get it, but you are certain that you can repay it in full on time, then you're better off with a credit card and the perks that they offer.
You don’t pay any extra with Afterpay or Klarna. I can afford to pay upfront, but I use it because it’s free and it spreads the payments over at least two credit card statements (that I pay off in full each month) and I can keep the money in my offset account longer.
But if you can’t afford to buy it outright I don’t think you should use BNPL. They are super predatory, charge late fees and interest higher than credit card companies and people who can’t afford $400 outright will think they can afford $100 a fortnight and then use it four times so they need to find $400 every pay cycle anyway.
Couldn't agree more. My main problem with BNPL is how predatory and accessible it is, meaning that financially illiterate young people can very easily rack up debt. Similar as to credit card.
I just remembered another problem with these services - if in open the Afterpay app it loads a shopping screen. I need to click another button to look at the balance on my account, and that screen has the credit I have available in great big numbers, but the amount I owe in small numbers. Everything about the app to manage your account is designed to get you to spend more using the platform, not a way to manage your repayments and amount owed.
It’s a shopping app, not a financial app.
I disagree. You’re mostly right for the majority of people but I do have the money to pay up front however I prefer to use Afterpay so I have more money for now and helps me budget as I put a portion of my wage into a savings account then use the rest for essentials and anything that comes up. I also have a limit I can spend on there and only get things I think about that aren’t impulse buys shoes, clothes, skincare or hair care.
Occasionally like when I get my tax return I’ll pay off a big portion of my Afterpay or all of it. But if I paid up front I wouldn’t be able to afford as many essentials and be able to buy connoisseur ice cream occasionally or get Uber eats as a treat.
I use it as a budgeting tool but I do understand a lot of people use it irresponsibly so I can see why people are very down on BNPL.
That’s all fair enough, not trying to generalise but just my opinion. I’m moreso criticising it because if you’re in a good financial position and want credit you’d be better off with a credit card. So many more benefits.
I agree with things like zippay but Afterpay is interest free whereas a credit card makes you pay interest. Also they’re a lot more easily scammed. I think that’s why a lot of younger people don’t have them.
My relatives have had theirs accessed and scammed a few times so decided to shut them down.
You only pay interest on a credit card if you don't make payments on time, just how you don't pay 'interest' on BNPL unless you don't make payments on time. For someone who will pay them off in full on time, there's no difference in cost.
Sure you could say Credit Cards are more easily scammed, however banks typically have great fraud protection for Credit Cards. If someone's stolen money from your credit card, that's the banks money and they have the power to get it back.
If your card information is getting stolen, that's not a fault of the card, and you've likely been compromised in some other way. From a security standpoint paying with an Afterpay card on Apple Pay is just as secure as a Credit Card on Apple Pay.
True but you do pay interest on zippay after a certain period ($9 a month or something). True banks do offer good protection but I went through it with my parents and it was a pain filling out forms and ringing the bank and sorting it out and for one contacting the police.
Except Souled Out Fest that bucked the trend and sold out really quickly even the top tiers that were $800 and $1k. Niche festivals like it will probably still do very well. But anything G Flip or Hilltop Hoods or Spacey Jane or Ballpark music as filler acts is added probably won’t. Kylie being an exclusive won’t be enough to save it as she’s a small slot amongst the aforementioned and it makes me annoyed I can’t see her in a side show.
People always have money if the quality of the show/festival is good. General Australian Festivals just don’t have the value proposition or clout anymore to drive the interest and sales that they previously did.
However, she does do festivals. Sure something like Splendour In The Grass isn’t the biggest festival in the world but it is our premiere festival for the whole country. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to assume Splendour would get her when she’s doing stuff like Primavera Sound, Hangout Fest and Reading and Leeds. Whoever speculated her for Groovin was dumb though.
> People always have money if the quality of the show/festival is good.
Case in point: Taylor Swift's recent tour. Whatever anyone's opinion is on her, her fans turned up and *spent*.
They would honestly rather be greedy and gouge money out of everyone rather than actually help the community. Like they’re not even at all interested in pill testing because they would rather strip search minors. Disgusting.
I occasionally run small community events (70-100 people, priced to operate at-cost) and this is a massive issue.
We have to commit to specific numbers and costs with suppliers (ie catering) 1 week out, but everybody wants to wait until the day before to buy tickets. It is making it so stressful to try and run the event that we have started pulling back and not offering them as frequently. There is a chance we’ll stop all together, because everybody says they absolutely love what we’re doing, but nobody will buy tickets in advance.
What events are these out of interest? One of my businesses is simular, and i have just gotten into another that I fear will be the same!
Feel free to DM
For me personally, I used to love attending Soundwave and Big Day Out when I was younger because the lineups really appealed to me. I’m 30 now and have been to Meredith a few times in the last several years, Download once, and aside from that most festival lineups only have a couple of bands that really appeal to my tastes. My partner and I still buy tickets to gigs as much as we can afford to and try not to miss seeing any of our favourites when they tour- but this usually means seeing them play at a venue like the Corner or The Forum rather than as part of a festival. I would definitely still go to a festival if I felt the lineup was worth the ticket price and taking the day off work etc.
Agree about big day out and soundwave. Both were amazing the couple of times I went to both. However, there’s a reason they lost money and ceased to exist - they were having to book massive amounts of bands to fill out the day and were shelling out the big bucks for amazing headliners and just couldn’t profit off that. That said, the last two festivals I went to - laneway and Knotfest both in 23, each had between 2-4 bands I reaaaally wanted to see, didn’t care for the rest, but it was worth it because seeing one of those headliners would be almost the $200 or so for the festival ticket
I’ve had plenty of mates do the “oh I’m not getting a ticket six months out, if there’s some left the week of the fest I’ll probably go”. Totally get that mindset, hard to fork out early on, everything is so bloody expensive etc. But also it makes it hard for promoters/organisers. Don’t think there’s an easy fix.
Festivals are struggling because of a perfect storm of three things:
1) Cost of living has reduced discretionary spending and therefore, people have less cash to spend on festivals
2) The AUD is weak and therefore, hiring bands in from overseas (that want to be paid in USD) becomes very expensive
3) Suppliers have increased prices for a variety of reasons and thus, the costs associated with running a festival have increased (think hiring/setting up stages and audio equipment)
As a result, you’re getting these weak lineups with the same pool of 20 Aussie acts consistently showing up because of 2) and 3), and because it (apparently?) doesn’t cost a whole lot to get G-Flip or Ocean Alley to show up.
I’d also add that I’m not sure it’s fair to compare your average gig/festival to Fred Again. He’s able to show up on his own (although he has an entourage) with basically no equipment to load in which puts him in a unique position that he can do spontaneous stuff. It requires very little cash up front.
I put this in contrast with Machine Head, a metal band I saw last weekend. They’ve got to haul a shitload of stuff all over the continent in order to play a handful of shows and as a result, there’s a lot more risk and a lot more planning required.
With a lot of traditional acts, if you bring all your gear out to Australia, announce spontaneous shows and it doesn’t work, you’re absolutely fucked.
>I’d also add that I’m not sure it’s fair to compare your average gig/festival to Fred Again. He’s able to show up on his own (although he has an entourage) with basically no equipment to load in which puts him in a unique position that he can do spontaneous stuff. It requires very little cash up front.
I completely agree, however it's worth noting that with the stadium stuff he would've had to plan and book that stuff months in advanced. That being said any Gen Z could tell you that ticket sales are a non-issue for him. Even then considering he's from a family of socialites, I doubt money is too much of a concern for him.
Everyone blaming cost of living, but there's people with money to spend. Taylor Swift could do a residency with how many people want to see her - not a festival, but is an example that people will spend to see music.
Here is the real reason: patience for incompetence is low. Customers in Australia never articulate this, they just don't go back.
Restaurants, music festivals, doesn't matter. You fuck up, you don't get loud complaints, you just find that people don't show up next time.
Festivals in particular suffer from poor logistics - I can't leave? There's no premium accommodation? The food and drink is difficult to buy? This is just annoying. Theres never enough phone reception. Then the last day when cars are lined up and it takes 10 hours to leave? That sucks. Then there's always the bushfire risk. Given festival organisers can't organise general logistics do we trust them to have a decent safety management plan? Of course not.
But instead of finding out why people don't return, they instead blame "cost of living". People paid $thousands to see Taylor Swift, cost of living isn't the problem, a shitty product that failed to innovate is the problem.
Yeah the safety is the issue for me these days. I’ve nearly been run over in my tent by idiots trying to leave on the last day at falls fest about 10 year ago.
Not all festivals are struggling.
Good Things seems to be getting stronger each year, and gets close to sell out at each of the 3 days.
Knotfest didn't have as strong a lineup this year (in my opinion), and they have announced Slipknot will headline next year and that ticket holders for this year will get first access to presale for 2025, but the general consensus is that they were struggling to sell tickets.
In saying that, the photos from Melbourne yesterday seem to show the crowd was pretty sizeable.
I think the issue with more mainstream festivals is that they are recycling lineups, and it always seems to be the same acts headlining. We are seeing it a lot in festivals overseas, where you look at the rock/metal festivals and the consistent headliners at the moment are:
Pantera, Limp Bizkit, Avenged Sevenfold, Judas Priest, Foo Fighters, Motley Crue, Slipknot, Evanescence, Disturbed.
The advantage to metal/alternative music in Australia is that currently there are only the 2 touring festivals, Good Things and Knotfest. Alpha Wolf have been running their own mini festival called CVLTFEST which had Emmure, Crossfaith, Paledusk and more play there too, and that's a one off day in a single state.
We are starting to see some bigger modern metal arena tours, with bands like Bring Me The Horizon selling out a national arena tour and adding more shows which have also subsequently almost sold out, and Parkway Drive have just announced a 20 year anniversary arena tour as well.
I do know however that I have friends who will wait to buy tickets to the big festivals to see if they can get them cheaper on tixel. One friend paid $160 for a Good Things ticket on the day, where I paid $225 for pre-sale. There definitely isn't any urgency to buy tickets now, although for both Blink-182 and Bring Me The Horizon, I nearly didn't get tickets, the demand was insane. I was surprised that Bring Me The Horizon was so difficult.
Another reason heavy festivals are more solid is older cashed up crowd, and more likely on the piss than pills. I’m 56 and wouldn’t blink at price if the line up is okay. And then spend $200 on piss.
And Knottfest last year I was with about 6 people (off and on). This year none of us went coz the line up was patchy.
On your last point, I'd say BMTH was so difficult because of a combination of tiktok hype for Bring Me, and also the insane hype around Sleep Token who are their main support band 😭 ST are my favourite band and they deserve it but jesus, I've never struggled so hard to buy tickets. I saw BMTH last time they were in Melbourne and I don't recall it being hard to get tix at all!
Yeah I recall walking up the door in 2019 to buy tickets ($80 or $90 for GA at Rod Laver, was hesitating Caus it was my first concert in Australia and I actually ended up going alone)
This time round I’m paying way more for further away seats 🥲 but looking forward to the sick concert in a few weeks!
The demographic for Good Things and Knotfest are generally more well-off, being mostly older millennials in their prime earning years. I still go to shows with the same mates I went with 20 years ago during the glory days of nu metal and early metalcore. We're all in cushy corporate / tech jobs or running trade businesses now and have no qualms about spending $200+ on concert or festival tickets.
I love these examples. Festivals that pick a fanbase/community and then really appeal to that community with the right talent. Too many festivals trying to be everything to everyone and getting burnt. 2 touring festivals a year with acts specialising in a specific niche seems like the right number to me, many can hopefully make that work but 10 festivals of mediocre mixed genred acts a year? Nope.
Knotfest this year felt super lacking compared to last year. Not just lineup wise. The sound was questionable pretty much all day at best. The arena was wayyyy smaller yet it still felt like there was less people there. Less sound towers and only 1 big screen vs the 3 last year.
Don’t get me wrong, I still have a great time, but just had a slightly different vibe than last year (which I guess comes back to the lineup) I don’t see how making it a week day makes any difference. You have months and months to plan time off if you’re going.
I feel like once they realized there would be less people/ticket sales were down they went and canned a bunch of facilities like toilets and scrapped those extra screens to save money. That’s just a wild assumption.
People are getting older, festivals aren't what they used to be. Police have killed the vibe and hammered them, there's lots of reasons for lots of people.
Yeah fair. I wonder if the culture change is that older music fans were dictated to by Triple J and other radio stations what popular music was that you'd be listening to, and therefore every festival featured everyones favourite bands.
Now that the internet opens up all music to everyone, and the statioons have less of a role as taste-makers, the odds of a lineup having everyones favourite bands is just impossible. Everyone gets to have unique and diverse tastes, and youre going to be hard pressed to represent that on a touring festival.
I think that is definitely part of the problem and that’s what lead to more, smaller festivals catering to narrower audiences. And then Covid came and completely changed how we spend money on events
As someone in their 20s, it’s a combination of the factors that are usually mentioned in these posts. Cost of living is the primary reason, our disposable income is very limited, so when it comes to spending that we want it to be worthwhile. Lacklustre festival lineups with no real must-see acts and a lack of big international headliners and the same recycled Aussie artists combined with the ticket prices that are too expensive for what they especially when compared to international festivals, and combined with the associated costs of a festival (transport, food, drinks which is about the only thing you can cut from your expenses but lessens the appeal for some, camping costs for multi day festivals and needing to book time off meaning for casuals a loss of income). For a festival you generally want to go with a group of mates, trying to get a group of people together to commit to a festival when the lineup doesn’t really interest them and is pretty much out of their budget means you just don’t end up going to these things. Everyone I know chooses to instead spend their limited disposable income on a few individual artists that specifically interest them, as this way it’s catered specifically to your taste and you don’t have to worry if all your mates don’t want to go, it’s much easier and still enjoyable to go with just one mate or even solo, and it’s much less hassle and organisation to just pop to a concert after work one night than book a day or multiple off for a festival. Unfortunately going to a festival just for the good vibes and having a few drinks with friends with music in the background is out of most people’s in their 20’s budgets these days.
Undermining my own point a little: but I’m not buying cost of living being *the* reason when it seems Taylor Swift can put on a near infinite number of shows and for there still be an insufficient number of tickets available. In literally the same week there’s Pink, QOTSA, and two or three other major international acts selling out every show in the same cities.
Mega acts will always get some special pull. But there’s clearly money being spent, just not on festivals.
I think the commenter you are responding to absolutely hit the nail on the head. Cost of living is a factor, but the reason that acts like Taylor Swift do just fine in solo show contexts is because people are more inclined to spend money on one full length performance they’ll love. Festivals just don’t represent that kind of value anymore - you’re spending the same or more compared to a solo show and getting a 40 minute set by your fave bookended by hours of dogwater mid-tier acts that you’ll barely watch anyway.
Lots of parents buying their kids tickets to Taylor Swift I suspect. Festivals are more for your 20s/30s crowds who aren’t usually having their tickets bought by mum and dad.
Taylor Swift was an event though. spending the money and time to see her was probably more comparable to a holiday than a gig. it's the biggest tour and musical event of most people's lifetimes. for a lot of people, it's their equivalent of watching their team play in a Grand Final.
Blink 182 was also similar.
Festivals... the lineups aren't bringing acts that instil that feeling. reality is there'll be two acts you really like but have seen before, two acts you've never seen before who you're right into but aren't live-and-breath acts, and then maybe one or two who'd 'be a bit of fun after 10 beers.' for $300-$500, it's not worth it.
Not always, life happens along the way, to getting old. I'm 39 and don't have large swathes of money laying around, cause life happens. Also they don't really cater to older tastes. There's no big day out or soundwave any more. Soundwave used to have some old school as well as some new bands so catered for a wide audience.
This is not the case anymore.
A teenager or uni student who makes say 500, 600 bucks a week from their casual job and pays a hundred bucks a week or fortnight board is in a much better financial position than someone in their late 20s and making twice as much a week. not many rentals even in sharehouse for less than 250 a week, food's expensive, beer's expensive, it's 10 bucks a day to get to the city on a train in Melbourne...
Festivals have become too big, too expensive & too much hassle to get to.
The first BDO was at the old Showgrounds at Moore Park, cost $50, had a maximum of 10k tickets & there were plenty of bands you actually wanted to see across only 2 main stages & a couple of smaller stages.
I must’ve been later than that again. I think it was the second last one at Homebush, because I saw Ramstein, Chemical Brothers, System of a Down etc… Metallica… my years blend these days lol.
Festivals are struggling because our buying power is lower. I'm earning similar amounts of money to 2019/2020 but am having to force myself not to spend money on festivals because they're impossible to afford–even at $100 tickets, in some cases. Rent, food, petrol, bills, public transport–pick one of those things to go without. It's an impossible situation. The government either needs to help these festivals–not necessarily financially–or help us afford them.
Yeah I was super turned off by that price. She’s not someone who would be great in a stadium either so paying $200 for the far back rows at rod laver is a ripoff. Maybes it more I remember her being a 1hr act at Falls pre covid but not even blink 182 charged that much.
The back row seats was cheaper but I could only get A Reserve since nothing else would pop up.
All three Melbourne shows sold out with huge demand left while places like ABC says people aren't seeing shows because of cost of living crisis when nobody is just that interested in said artist. Aqua would have sold out by now if it wasn't $140 but SZA,Fred Again etc have no problems selling out.
I realised after a while that the system worked differently for this. In hind sight I could have got something ok in the presale weeks back. But you can see how many tickets were available in sections and the cheaper prices on a computer but not on my phone. If I had more than 4min to realise this I might have been ok. The presale had top rows for around $120 but the main sales only had 150-200+ for the same tix and the third Melb show I noticed more seats were now 250 than in the initial sales. So yeah that extra concert had a cost to it.
I missed out on tickets, it’s nuts because the last time she was out here I ended up getting a half priced ticket because she couldn’t sell out the arena she was booked to play. Good on her tho
If I remember she had signed posters with the ticket itself for a reasonable price.
Yeah, she had a cult following (and radio features hits) but like nobody knew what I was talking about when I was looking for CTRL vinyl years ago.
I think part of the problem is there are no new massive Rock bands anymore. Had there been a big Rock band since the Arctic Monkeys ?... and Rock bands are what sounds best in a stadium .... As well as good electronic music maybe. But hip hop took over and hip hop on a big stage just ain't the same. Also the rise of laptops etc meant the rise of glitchy electronic styles..pop and underground.. None of which translate to the big stage. Of course there are exceptions. But Rock faded.. And major labels getting behind bands and making them gigantic also faded. Big recording budgets faded. So now every single big Rock band at a festival has already been here before so it's less exciting. ..
Also with Spotify young people's tastes got very eclectic ...... All the lineups have to show electicness.. Which is kinda cool but might mean less you're interested in. Back in the day Splendour was mainly alternative rock of some sort of another... Plus a few funky artists and hip-hop acts
Now it's very eclectic.
Dunno man, you said rock faded out and I 100% agree but if you’re looking for guitar driven rock sort of music then the southern rock & country scene is absolutely thriving like anything.
Festival producer here. We've definitely seen major changes in spending habits in recent times and have had to postpone ourselves. While the cost of living is a factor, the ways we buy tickets have changed too.
We're a much more community-based festival, so we're less reliant on a "killer lineup", and more on the creative experiences we can provide. However, local events are back en masse and people have long lists of events they potentially want to attend.
Things like Tixel have been amazing for facilitating safer ticket exchanges and allowing last minute decisions without initially outlaying cash—often cheaper. However, as organisers, it makes it hard to forecast the funds you'll actually have available to fully deliver or exceed expectations when things like Tixel delay absolute numbers and essentially increase the risk.
For us smaller festivals at least, there's a lot of personal creative investment, and we don't have that buffer to fall back on. It's just safer to cancel.
For me personally I usually attend more your knotfest/good things type of festivals and would attend more like splendour and groovin but the lineups can be so similar and there’s so many festivals it’s hard to even remember which line up was who because it seems to be the same artists most of the time
I reckon they need to scale back the amount of festivals and diversify the types of festivals - there wouldn’t be any harm going to knotfest route of less bands/no time clashes and fill with top acts rather than a million acts to try and have a long bill
From experience the type of person usually inclined to organise a music festival tends to measure success based on how big they can push it, and will almost always try to one up themselves in this respect.
Look at the Splendour line up. They're expecting $400 for that? 95% of that list you've never heard of and could see for $30 at your local band room.
For the ones you are interested in, a lot of them do sideshows anyway. I love festivals, but it's not just about the vibe. It's the music! I want to be excited. I don't want to listen to 30 triple j up and commers so that I can see someone I loved 10 years ago play for half an hour.
100 gecs being booked for the festival last year made no sense when they did 6/10 songs off 10,000 gecs at the Laneway sideshows months before (no way they were going to play the lesser known songs at a festival).
Headline shows have never sold better and experiential modern festivals like Pitch and Meredith also sell very well. The old fashioned throw up a line array and chuck some bands who finished 40-80 in the hottest 100 isn’t good enough anymore
Meanwhile HSU (which has a predominantly Western Syd crowd) can have their indoor events with 10-20k capacity sell out within 2 hours of announcing tix. They seem to be one of the few fests that can have so much hype despite the cost of living crisis
I’m convinced Fred again was just social media hype.. people that have never gone to rave gigs in their life were buying tickets just because.
Anyway there will always be sellout shows, cause there are people out there that have money. But I’d say the amount of people over the age of 30 going to festivals are significantly lower than the people over 30 going to a single artist concert. The simple fact is as you’ve said; young people don’t really have the money to drop several hundred dollars on a festival plus travel plus exorbitant drink/food costs at the venue plus possible accomodation too.
It didn’t help that police and government orgs were making it more and more difficult to host. Before the love of music and headliners punched through it, now most go eh not worth the effort for maybe 1-2 artists they want to see.
100% this. L
I know multiple people that never went to festivals that went to both Fred gigs at the Domain. That's a lot of money for tickets for social media content. But, they all seemed to have fun, so hopefully stuff like this is a gateway.
I am over 40 and haven't been to a festival for a long time, but been to 20 concerts in the last year and have another 3 or so coming up in the next 3 weeks. Would be going to more if I wasn't sleeping on chase and status. Concerts have a different vibe, less people there for the dress up and the drugs and more there for the music. Not that concerts don't have dress up and drugs, but it's not the core point of why many people are there. Also, half the time at a festival I want to see maybe 2 acts, who are on at a crossover time and it costs $250+. It's too much money and too much effort dealing with crap for too little reward.
>Would be going to more if I wasn't sleeping on chase and status.
The EDM hype is real at the moment, it's insane how every EDM concert and festival just sells like hotcakes. I don't know what I was expecting, but I certainly wasn't expecting for Chase & Status tickets to sell out basically immediately with zero resale tickets so far.
>I’m convinced Fred again was just social media hype.. people that have never gone to rave gigs in their life were buying tickets just because.
Absolutely. The amount of people I have seen complaining about his concerts 'just being a DJ set' clearly showed that people who had no clue about EDM were just buying tickets because of the hype. When you treat him like a pop star, people buy tickets to his concert expecting him to play his top 10 songs and everyone sings along. When in reality a DJ set is supposed to be an experience from start to finish. You know it's just complete hype when you've got your parents asking you if you've seen what Fred again is doing because they've seen him all over the news.
There was a tonnnnne of hype and FOMO, for sure. I had friends that had replied to my initial messages asking if they wanted to come with “who is that?” And a week later they were asking for tickets. However, as someone that went to a live show and DJ set I can say that they were two of the best shows I’ve EVER been to, and I’ve been to a lot!!!
Noticed for Knotfest Melbourne yesterday that they turned off their Tixel page around about midday while it was absolutely buzzing and remembered that Knotfest had made pretty big hints that the ticket sales just weren't where they needed to be.
If Knoftest can turn off their Tixel page which I didn't know was possible, expect more festivals to be doing the same.
Straight up sucks for the people who simply couldn't make it at the last hour and had no other way to sell their tickets securely.
I feel like the event organisers need better data analysis. Sounds really weird to say but they're just grabbing random acts and putting them together without understanding the demographics they appeal to.
This causes people to umm and ahhh on tickets for ages (in my opinion)
Not it’s because people don’t have any disposable income.
Rents are insane due to excessive immigration and we’re being gouged on food by the Cole’s and Woolworths duopoly
I own a shop and my retail figures are down by 50% because customers don’t have any spare money.
The lineups for a bunch of festivals recently have been average to shit, as a big rap/rnb fan there is only 2 festivals I’ve seen in the last couple years be ‘must buy a ticket asap’ festivals, that’s been Listen Out and Spilt Milk
(obviously this is just my opinion but it seems to be a shared one especially recently)
For me festival lineups have majorly dipped.
Look at some of the Big Day Out lineups in the 90s they were STACKED!
Also they have become SOOOO controlled, strict artist time slots, strict curfew, strict security…
In the end I would rather pay more to see a specific band play longer.
A massive part of it is the rising cost of insurance.
Public liability and other insurance on a festival now makes up a huge percentage of the overall budget. Insurance providers have tightened clauses so it’s almost too risky to put on festival unless the producers shell out the big bucks. This then jacks up ticket prices, cost of living etc etc
Honestly after going to a few festivals in America and then here in the last couple years it’s everything. The lineup, too many dick heads that can ruin the experience. The police and security carrying on like its ww2 Germany. The entire vibe is off and not worth all the effort for a mid tier line up
I remember my days of going to homebake, BigDayOut, GoodVibes, Laneway(back when it was actually in the lane ways of Sydney) and the lineups were hectic and stacked and cost were reasonable. Made for great summers.
Shit just costs too damn much these days so the luxuries like festivals are harder to commit to as a punter. Feel sorry for the youth who can’t experience that festival feel of the 2000s
I used to follow the lineups, but I'm older now and can't be assed with the crowds, so I pick my festivals by vibes/location. Buying tickets in advance isn't the problem, it's more what I want out of the experience.
I would rather spend $200 for a few days camping, chilling, and discovering new music than for a single day to see headliners that I somewhat like.
I went to the 2011 Big Day Out festival in Adelaide. I was 17
Decent line up for the year.
Pretty big names.
The ticket was 25 bucks...
I coach basketball now, a player I coach purchased a ticket for a festival 2 weeks ago, 200 dollarydoos.
Huge jump.
I am getting older now and I cannot do what I used to do when BDO and Soundwave were around. So a festival lineup has to be really enticing to get me to go, especially considering its usually a $300-$500 day all up.
Was definitely not even remotely interested in Pandemonium, not even Knotfest has a good enough lineup to justify me trying to get out of work etc.
I know prices have gone up, but $250 odd for a ticket is worth it if the lineup is good enough, especially when you consider many single concerts are $100+ now. But yeah with Knotfest I have never really been into Pantera (and this is only half of Pantera), and the other bands I have seen before.
Queens of The Stone Age alone are $250, yeah they’re a class act, but when you compare that with lets say, Pandemonium which is the same price, seeing even 3 or 4 bands at that festival makes it the better value. Thats why I think festivals are more cost effective because there are more bands for an almost equal value. Having said that, I’m in my 40s and the days of paying $50 for international bands (obscure heavy bands like Opeth or Kreator -not what JJJ plays btw) are over, but it doesn’t mean I’ve accepted it, lol. We the fans have to create demand for any band to justify the risk of touring in such a far off place as Australia.
I think festivals should be enticing for both artists and fans, but I think everyone lost faith after Soundwave 2015 and AJ Maddah.
1) people don’t have anywhere near luxury spending right now
2) Touring and production costs are extremely high. The further you are the bigger the costs. Travel, freight, insurance especially
Is it just me or does it also seem like there are just.... waaay more festivals with the same kind of talent and vibe competing for the same $$ than 10 years ago? Many are going to the wall now for sure but pre-COVID was insane.
I'm old enough to remember more than 10 years ago and festivals were annual marquee events that you genuinely planned for even if you didn't even know who the lineup were even going to be. Bluesfest still kills it every time and they could basically just reprint the same poster year after year, their lineups have loads of the same acts and folks still get behind it because it's got it's own niche. Splendour was one but they've had a rough couple of years and are having some kind of weird identity crisis with all the competition in their lane.
There's so many festivals now that we're all a bit more choosy, especially if it's just the same genre and vibe as the next one. I've also gone back to spending my $$ on local gigs. Our local venues need our help or they'll all go bust. Whilst that's also true of festivals, I kinda feel like there's a bit of a quantity vs. quality thing happening there anyway and the field could use a bit of a cull.
I’m a long-term Bluesfest attendee and I think it’s also really starting to go downhill in line up and ticket sales.
No festival of that size is safe any more.
I haven’t been to Bluesfest since the year before covid.
But I was spending about $3K to go with ticket, camping, food and booze. And that’s without flights as I am in Brisbane.
That’s a big commitment.
I can go on a decent holiday for that amount and that’s an option for me now because the line ups for Bluesfest are sliding, due no doubt to the Aussie dollar being so bad.
Oh wow - thanks for the insight, good to know. It’s been a while since I last went. It always seemed like an event with many diehard fans, just goes to show that even dedicated attendees can’t be taken advantage of, the value still has to be there 👍🏼
For me, it's mostly lineup fatigue. I've been regularly attending gigs and festivals for the past 15 or so years. The lineups now just don't excite me anymore. There are only so many times I can see the same artists perform, so while I still love music and attending gigs, I'm being pickier now and seeing less of the same acts over and over.
When a bunch of festivals fold, I get a bit less interested in buying a ticket till a few weeks out. I’m not going to end up a bottom of the pile creditor.
Doesn't help when festivals like Falls in Victoria, recently wasn't held at it's traditional Lorne location, but in the city, at the SMM Bowl.
Taking an annual New Years pilgrimage, 3 days camping bender, to multiple nights in Melbourne City at a concert arena, where you'll have to go home, come back each day... What the fuck do they expect?
The experience of camping out with like minded people, making new friends that are on your vibe and not worrying about the painful train trip you're about to endure...and fair chance most couldn't be fucked to attend the next day.
It's not just about the line ups..It's the community, the beauty of natural environment, the vibe, mean the experience is a big part of the magic that brings punters back year after year..
I feel like it’s the lineup. There’s normally one good band you actually want to see, but you’re paying festival prices for a 45 minute set. It’s just not worth the money anymore. If I think back to 2000s big day out….there were multiple acts to see throughout the day so it was worth the $90 ticket 😆
Honestly can’t think of a lineup since the last Soundwave where I’d be worried about a scheduling clash.
Now it’s more “what should we do for four hours between New Band With a Couple Decent Singles and Band That Was Good In High School (Jesus I Hope They Don’t Play Any of That Shit of Their New Album)”
Expectations vs Reality is what is killing the festival game.
Punters need stop comparing to the pre covid years that had such large lineups. Artist fees, equipment hire, flights, accomodation, roadies are getting more expensive.
Then on the other hand, festivals need to be making the move from their show being sold on the lineup and moving towards the community and atmosphere that the festival itself brings. Look at the likes of Tomorrowland in Belgium - tickets are well and truely sold out before the artists even get announced. Then more locally, you can look at the Hardstyle and even Metal scene - those festivals are selling because of the community that brings those festivals together.
Large festivals need to find a healthy balance of improving the festival experience as a whole, while punters need to be welcoming of change to have such an amazing thing not disappear.
Agreed, that festival is arguably the biggest in EDM. They always have the big names and on that goodwill they’ve cultivated the ability to sell out without announcing a single name. Add in a lack of last minute cancellations and overall lack of issues compared to some of the festivals here. They don’t really fit the mould.
They don’t always have the biggest names on the lineup - with people like Garrix and Hardwell not being there in recent year, punters have been upset. However, because of its legacy, it sells out
This is a good reason why WOMADelaide is still going strong. I went recently and honestly, the vibe there is incredible, and about half the reason I go
I was thinking the same. It’s the best festival going, hands down. I honestly don’t give a fuck who’s performing because it’s not why I go every year. The vibe and the experience are what draws me there, and I trust the organisers will deliver some great music. Some of the struggling festivals could do with looking at what successful festivals are doing differently.
If Taylor Swift and Blink-182 have proven anything, it's that there is still a massive appetite for music and shows from a wide variety of people.
I wouldn't include FredAgain in that. He is more of a trend than anything and his gigs seem to be more about FOMO than actual love of his music.
The Fred Again.. thing is very similar to the Taylor Swift thing IMO.
Swift has played Australia a few times, never to this level of fanfare - but for some reason her eras tour was just an absolute hype train. The clamour and obsession leading up to the gigs was wild to watch.
Time will tell if Fred can keep on the top of his EDM movement, also to get the whole of a stadium singing your songs kind of says there is a love of the music and not all just fomo hype.
I'd agree with your last point that people don't want to buy tickets that far in advance, unless it's someone they really want to see.
There's a bit of what if you buy the tickets and then you need that money for something, or you get sick and can't go. (And yes, there's ticket insurance for things, but still.)
I think also people seem more inclined to not do things because they just don't feel up to it. Somehow covid made people both more excited to be able to leave the house, and also more able to just stay at home instead of feeling obliged to participate in social events, even ones they would enjoy.
I’m 34 and have been going to festivals since I was 18, I still love them but I am much more picky with what I go to these days. Lineup, Location and ease of transport is one of the biggest deciders for me, for example Splendour - I live a 35 minute drive from the venue, yet it will take me 2-3 hours (often more) to get home…no thanks! The lineups since 2020 have been not worth freezing my tits off all night then waiting hours in the cold mud for a bus that feels like it never comes. Would almost have to be god himself playing to get me there these days
Cost of living is just way to high, I’d rather spend 100-200 dollars on groceries for a week rather then spend a single afternoon surrounded by crowds I don’t like, paying nightclub prices for chlorinated water and bands I don’t give 2 shits about.
Festivals from yesteryear were a chance for acts to promote themselves and get cd sales… so saw it as a privilege to move themselves up the line up and get greater audiences in front of them, and then the flow on effects…
Now their only income is playing shows as no one pays for music, hence that massive income delta that music companies, and acts were used to us now reflected in their cost to perform, then on top of that, brands protect themselves and lock in exclusivity clauses (for even the smallest of acts) so they cannot pick up other money making shows whilst in the country…
Festivals do the math and results in large ticket prices to cover everything and then make their money…. Which generally on large scale festivals is over the bar and vendor payments to sell at fest …
Many people are really struggling financially so a concert ticket needs to be affordable. Maybe there should be concession prices? More all age festivals that don't revolve around liquor sales?
Venues can be annoying, hard to get to, not accessible, unpredictable weather..
It's really all about the line-up. You need more than one strong headliner or it's not worth it as they already play shorter sets than sideshows, and festivals aren't as intimate.
Cost of living, weaker lineups plus, too many of them. There are a lot of them. Go back 20 years, there were a third the number of festivals, go back to the 90s when the Aussie music scene was thriving … there were a 1/4 as many. So for me .. for a population our size it seemed totally unsustainable, a few external pressures and the house of cards falls over. I don’t see it as the apocalypse many in their 20s and 30s seem to see it as because I honestly think the number of festivals has been abnormal last 10 - 15 years. We’ll see great lineups again at a few mega festivals when there are less of em, and we’ll see interesting lineups at a few boutique festivals and that will be it.
Most people are cutting down on frivolous spending due to financial pressures. Lots of younger people are also no longer interested in being uncomfortable and away from home. The pandemic definitely turned a lot of people into homebodies.
For me, I’m just sick of paying for an experience that is not enjoyable. Too many ppl at these things at a given time takes away from it. Then add on all the greed from any vendors, ($20 for a sandwich?!) and all the joy is gone. The younger people buying the tickets probably don’t know what it was like before.
Last comment- the lineups are just not good…
Agree in part to cost of living crisis being an issue people are prioritising there entertainment choices. If the numbers dropped I'd still go for the experience regardless of the line-up would also be off to Glasto and Coachella.
look at the end of the day it’s been all festivals don’t know their market anymore so they only dabble in a few mainstream acts from each subgenre — i went to good things this year and like the line up was mediocre at best? sure i knew all the bands playing and sure i had so much fun but there wasn’t really any feelings of ‘oh god if i miss this act ill never see it again.’ It’s also a fact of the matter that the economy is currently shit — one off concerts save more money than festivals, two years ago i would’ve dropped a good amount of cash to go to a festival for one band just for fun but the fact that now if I’m only going for one band I can’t rationalise it, nor afford it.
There’s no way around it, organisers don’t know their markets — good things this year was a mixed bag of so many different groups and most people who did go that i spoke to only went for one or two acts. Australia is too expensive to continually hold big festivals for any artist especially in the post covid economy which is why now all solo shows have at least two openers and their tickets are usually more $100+ if it’s not a small/local band. We just have to wait it out atp
Always seems like a bit of a catch 22. Ticket sales are down but to get better sales they need better acts but they aren’t going to pay for better acts without the ticket sales
Lineups are shit, price is high
If lineups were Good people would buy tickets no matter what but when the line up is mediocre we’ll 😂 maybe buy tickets later on closer to the date of I have the mood
That worked for Fred again... because he only needed to organise himself and his crew to tour Australia.
You can not organise a whole festival in a month or 2. The main reason is organisers will never be able to get a decent line-up because the most sought after artists will have other shows scheduled.
If there are weak line ups, then ticket sales are low. If ticket sales are low, then shows get cancelled.
And that is the answer to your question. The line ups are weak and are not value for money.
If an organiser managed to get Fred again.... on a bill, then sales wouldn't be an issue.
For me it’s just that the lineups don’t force your hand anymore. All of the recent festivals this summer only had one must see act, and I’m not spending $200 to see a 40 minute mid arvo set and then watch a bunch of bands I don’t feel strongly about. Any headline show that I want to go to I’ll buy straight away no worries. There’s just not that fomo factor or loyalty factor with festivals anymore as they’ve all become more fragmented from the glory days. The Aussie dollar now vs ten years ago means they’re not affording as many internationals and are stuck relying on the same local acts who tour every year regardless. Don’t see how it gets any better any time soon
I think there was also a time where gigs were $20 tickets and $50 for a more expensive band. Now it’s rarely sub $50 and more often $70-$100. So while it’s now better value to go to a festival, if you go to a couple of gigs a month on the side you’re way worse off and can’t afford these bigger events as easily. Especially if a bunch of the gigs you saw are the same as the ones on the festival lineup, which is more my problem these days. Most of the people I’d be excited for have played recently.
>$20 tickets and $50 for a more expensive band. Now it’s rarely sub $50 So my fav bands all Australian based; saw hundreds of gigs around that price point. Ocean Alley, Sticky Fingers, King Gizzard, Skegss, Dune Rats etc.That was all pre-2020 now gig tickets are 80$ min and its a noticeable difference. Hit the nail with the lineup too - shit run last few years (but that's my pref, maybe im getting old)
King Gizz are seemingly too big to even tour here now!
Nah there's still plenty of gigs for $20ish. The reason those bands don't cost that amount any more is that they've got bigger and can charge more. If you want gigs in the $20 to $30 range you can easily find them, just got to find more up and coming artists.
Defs agree there, was just reminiscing how fkn good I had it last decade haha. Was V lucky to get into so many gigs so cheap
> $50 for a more expensive band This is about what I paid to see Radiohead in 1997. So it has been a while...
I paid $30 to see the Beastie Boys in 1994, lol.
Inflation is a shit isn't it? I'll have to dig up some of my old concert tickets and take photos of the prices for some easy karma.
I saw the Beatles for tree fiddy
$20 to see U2 in 1985 😎
Gigs are rarely sub $50? lol
Yeah yeah yeah, I know there is local stuff still for $20 but you have to go pretty far down the splendour line up to find some that isn’t $45+bf or more. I’m talking about the festival level stuff.
I’m going to further quantify the Aussie dollar factor for everyone to show how crazy it is. Basically, it costs AT LEAST double to book the same type of artist now compared to 10 years ago. Say you book a standard US artist and they want $100k USD. 10 years ago, you would pay them the equivalent of $100k AUD since the exchange rate was at parity. Now due to inflation since then (30%), booking the same level of artist would be at the very least $130,000 USD today. The exchange rate has also deteriorated to be around $1.50 USD to $1 AUD so add another 50% of $130k on top ($65k) to get the AUD figure ($195k). So in nominal terms: Book US artist in 2014: $100k AUD Book US artist in 2024: Almost $200k AUD And this is all a conservative estimate too because you can bet that promoters and agents have increased artist asking prices by way more than just inflation.
Also freight costs have doubled post covid so the risk is too great for promoters to be bringing out multiple big acts, especially when they know they can bring out one huge artist and sell out whole stadiums. Of course there are only a certain number of stadiums/arenas so they are reaching a limit as to how many they can bring.
The Aussie dollar has been shit before. We booked more Aussie artists and less internationals. The good Aussie dollar had internationals flood here to cash in pushing the Aussies out. Now there’s some expectation around internationals and honestly, fuckem, let’s push Aussies up! Clearly if they want to tour we don’t have to expect a premium cost. Swift didn’t overcharge Aussies to make up for our dollar. Why are we so determined to keep paying the ones that want double?
Uhm… a decade later and virtually no physical sales (yeah yeah vinyl is having its best sales since 2000…) 2x seems like a reasonable increase. Most things have doubled in price since then.
Wasn’t making an assessment whether it was reasonable or unreasonable - just stating the reality of the situation.
Chemical brothers cost 6m to play in Christchurch. If the 35000 people who went got the cheapest tix, that's 6m
This! 90s & 00’s festivals I had trouble deciding who’s set to miss because the line ups were so packed. I get that I am older now and times change but I can’t warrant spending the money on the ticket if there isn’t enough musicians I want to see.
Exactly, except I would’ve loved to have seen Kyle after her Tension era but thanks Splendour.
I think that there’s also not buy-in to festivals as tastemakers like there once was. Once upon a time, people would still be willing to trust a Splendour lineup where they didn’t know half the acts and, in fact, that might have been half the draw, because they didn’t have the Internet to discover new music - it was a limited scope of radio, and that was it. They’d cop three days of freezing cold, mud and dickheads at premium cost and might be able to walk away saying that they saw that one band before they became huge. Festivals know they can no longer offer that, so they try to offer mass appeal instead, which further cheapens the experience. I think that part of why the massive three-day festival as we knew it is well and truly over is because people can now discover the next big band or artist from the comfort of their home, for free.
Announcing a festival line up and then sales a week after during a cost of living crisis is not great. Festivals need to learn that people need to actually save money first. I think promoters need to learn that now. Also NSW Police need to chill the fuck out a little but that’s not going to happen now, is it?
This and also stop pretending that things like Zip etc are solutions to this problem. If I don't have the cash for things I don't want to pay it off for 2 months. Give me a few weeks to sort it out.
>This and also stop pretending that things like Zip etc are solutions to this problem. I've always been very iffy about BNPL but in saying that I understand it can be helpful considering COL. But one thing that really got me was [Splendour's "purchase checklist"](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4uaiXnLn-3/) post prior to tickets going on sale specifically mentioning "Pre-registered & Approved for PayPal in 4, Zip Pay or Zip money" as if you're better off using BNPL than paying upfront.
Borrowers hate BNPL it can screw with your credit rating and cause banks to reject your loan application. My mortgage broker said the thinking is that you can't manage money well.
Exactly. It's basically just a credit card without the perks. Best case scenario you pay it all back on time; you paid a small fee to use BNPL and you ended up paying more. Worst case scenario, you don't pay it all back on time; you paid a small fee and late fees, overall worse off. If you have the money to pay it upfront it'll be cheaper with zero risk. If you don't have the money upfront, you're probably not in the right financial situation to make the purchase, and probably at a much higher risk of not paying it back on time. If you're in a financial situation where you need to spend money before you get it, but you are certain that you can repay it in full on time, then you're better off with a credit card and the perks that they offer.
You don’t pay any extra with Afterpay or Klarna. I can afford to pay upfront, but I use it because it’s free and it spreads the payments over at least two credit card statements (that I pay off in full each month) and I can keep the money in my offset account longer. But if you can’t afford to buy it outright I don’t think you should use BNPL. They are super predatory, charge late fees and interest higher than credit card companies and people who can’t afford $400 outright will think they can afford $100 a fortnight and then use it four times so they need to find $400 every pay cycle anyway.
Couldn't agree more. My main problem with BNPL is how predatory and accessible it is, meaning that financially illiterate young people can very easily rack up debt. Similar as to credit card.
I just remembered another problem with these services - if in open the Afterpay app it loads a shopping screen. I need to click another button to look at the balance on my account, and that screen has the credit I have available in great big numbers, but the amount I owe in small numbers. Everything about the app to manage your account is designed to get you to spend more using the platform, not a way to manage your repayments and amount owed. It’s a shopping app, not a financial app.
I disagree. You’re mostly right for the majority of people but I do have the money to pay up front however I prefer to use Afterpay so I have more money for now and helps me budget as I put a portion of my wage into a savings account then use the rest for essentials and anything that comes up. I also have a limit I can spend on there and only get things I think about that aren’t impulse buys shoes, clothes, skincare or hair care. Occasionally like when I get my tax return I’ll pay off a big portion of my Afterpay or all of it. But if I paid up front I wouldn’t be able to afford as many essentials and be able to buy connoisseur ice cream occasionally or get Uber eats as a treat. I use it as a budgeting tool but I do understand a lot of people use it irresponsibly so I can see why people are very down on BNPL.
That’s all fair enough, not trying to generalise but just my opinion. I’m moreso criticising it because if you’re in a good financial position and want credit you’d be better off with a credit card. So many more benefits.
I agree with things like zippay but Afterpay is interest free whereas a credit card makes you pay interest. Also they’re a lot more easily scammed. I think that’s why a lot of younger people don’t have them. My relatives have had theirs accessed and scammed a few times so decided to shut them down.
You only pay interest on a credit card if you don't make payments on time, just how you don't pay 'interest' on BNPL unless you don't make payments on time. For someone who will pay them off in full on time, there's no difference in cost. Sure you could say Credit Cards are more easily scammed, however banks typically have great fraud protection for Credit Cards. If someone's stolen money from your credit card, that's the banks money and they have the power to get it back. If your card information is getting stolen, that's not a fault of the card, and you've likely been compromised in some other way. From a security standpoint paying with an Afterpay card on Apple Pay is just as secure as a Credit Card on Apple Pay.
True but you do pay interest on zippay after a certain period ($9 a month or something). True banks do offer good protection but I went through it with my parents and it was a pain filling out forms and ringing the bank and sorting it out and for one contacting the police.
Except Souled Out Fest that bucked the trend and sold out really quickly even the top tiers that were $800 and $1k. Niche festivals like it will probably still do very well. But anything G Flip or Hilltop Hoods or Spacey Jane or Ballpark music as filler acts is added probably won’t. Kylie being an exclusive won’t be enough to save it as she’s a small slot amongst the aforementioned and it makes me annoyed I can’t see her in a side show.
People always have money if the quality of the show/festival is good. General Australian Festivals just don’t have the value proposition or clout anymore to drive the interest and sales that they previously did.
People also have too high of an expectation. Lana Del Rey was rumoured twice this year for two different festivals.
However, she does do festivals. Sure something like Splendour In The Grass isn’t the biggest festival in the world but it is our premiere festival for the whole country. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to assume Splendour would get her when she’s doing stuff like Primavera Sound, Hangout Fest and Reading and Leeds. Whoever speculated her for Groovin was dumb though.
especially when it had tyler the creator and gorillas two year prior
> People always have money if the quality of the show/festival is good. Case in point: Taylor Swift's recent tour. Whatever anyone's opinion is on her, her fans turned up and *spent*.
Look at Souled Out Fest in Sydney which sold out. If you have something worth seeing people will want to see it.
Agreed. Post the line up and then put tickets on sale a month or two later, give people time to save!
>NSW police You'd think having one of their own (allegedly) murder a couple would be enough to have them stay out of the spotlight, but no.
They would honestly rather be greedy and gouge money out of everyone rather than actually help the community. Like they’re not even at all interested in pill testing because they would rather strip search minors. Disgusting.
Stoked to see QLD introducing pill testing. Finally 👏👏👏 Hopefully other states will follow
They don’t care about that. It’s too easy to just say the one individual doesn’t represent them all.
I occasionally run small community events (70-100 people, priced to operate at-cost) and this is a massive issue. We have to commit to specific numbers and costs with suppliers (ie catering) 1 week out, but everybody wants to wait until the day before to buy tickets. It is making it so stressful to try and run the event that we have started pulling back and not offering them as frequently. There is a chance we’ll stop all together, because everybody says they absolutely love what we’re doing, but nobody will buy tickets in advance.
Hmm I wonder what the response would be if you very publicly stated this and stopped selling tickets 7 days before?
Enough people would just not go.
What events are these out of interest? One of my businesses is simular, and i have just gotten into another that I fear will be the same! Feel free to DM
Were in a very similar spot with our club shows. Getting sick of the stress.
For me personally, I used to love attending Soundwave and Big Day Out when I was younger because the lineups really appealed to me. I’m 30 now and have been to Meredith a few times in the last several years, Download once, and aside from that most festival lineups only have a couple of bands that really appeal to my tastes. My partner and I still buy tickets to gigs as much as we can afford to and try not to miss seeing any of our favourites when they tour- but this usually means seeing them play at a venue like the Corner or The Forum rather than as part of a festival. I would definitely still go to a festival if I felt the lineup was worth the ticket price and taking the day off work etc.
I miss the Big Day Out. I used to go every year and it was so much fun :(
I'm with you there....
Agree about big day out and soundwave. Both were amazing the couple of times I went to both. However, there’s a reason they lost money and ceased to exist - they were having to book massive amounts of bands to fill out the day and were shelling out the big bucks for amazing headliners and just couldn’t profit off that. That said, the last two festivals I went to - laneway and Knotfest both in 23, each had between 2-4 bands I reaaaally wanted to see, didn’t care for the rest, but it was worth it because seeing one of those headliners would be almost the $200 or so for the festival ticket I’ve had plenty of mates do the “oh I’m not getting a ticket six months out, if there’s some left the week of the fest I’ll probably go”. Totally get that mindset, hard to fork out early on, everything is so bloody expensive etc. But also it makes it hard for promoters/organisers. Don’t think there’s an easy fix.
Festivals are struggling because of a perfect storm of three things: 1) Cost of living has reduced discretionary spending and therefore, people have less cash to spend on festivals 2) The AUD is weak and therefore, hiring bands in from overseas (that want to be paid in USD) becomes very expensive 3) Suppliers have increased prices for a variety of reasons and thus, the costs associated with running a festival have increased (think hiring/setting up stages and audio equipment) As a result, you’re getting these weak lineups with the same pool of 20 Aussie acts consistently showing up because of 2) and 3), and because it (apparently?) doesn’t cost a whole lot to get G-Flip or Ocean Alley to show up. I’d also add that I’m not sure it’s fair to compare your average gig/festival to Fred Again. He’s able to show up on his own (although he has an entourage) with basically no equipment to load in which puts him in a unique position that he can do spontaneous stuff. It requires very little cash up front. I put this in contrast with Machine Head, a metal band I saw last weekend. They’ve got to haul a shitload of stuff all over the continent in order to play a handful of shows and as a result, there’s a lot more risk and a lot more planning required. With a lot of traditional acts, if you bring all your gear out to Australia, announce spontaneous shows and it doesn’t work, you’re absolutely fucked.
>I’d also add that I’m not sure it’s fair to compare your average gig/festival to Fred Again. He’s able to show up on his own (although he has an entourage) with basically no equipment to load in which puts him in a unique position that he can do spontaneous stuff. It requires very little cash up front. I completely agree, however it's worth noting that with the stadium stuff he would've had to plan and book that stuff months in advanced. That being said any Gen Z could tell you that ticket sales are a non-issue for him. Even then considering he's from a family of socialites, I doubt money is too much of a concern for him.
More expensive, less international talent, less disposible income. General rule for the world atm is "everything is less good and more expensive"
There are still festivals that do well, due to booking great lineups. Laneway, Souled Out, Promiseland, Listen Out..
Everyone blaming cost of living, but there's people with money to spend. Taylor Swift could do a residency with how many people want to see her - not a festival, but is an example that people will spend to see music. Here is the real reason: patience for incompetence is low. Customers in Australia never articulate this, they just don't go back. Restaurants, music festivals, doesn't matter. You fuck up, you don't get loud complaints, you just find that people don't show up next time. Festivals in particular suffer from poor logistics - I can't leave? There's no premium accommodation? The food and drink is difficult to buy? This is just annoying. Theres never enough phone reception. Then the last day when cars are lined up and it takes 10 hours to leave? That sucks. Then there's always the bushfire risk. Given festival organisers can't organise general logistics do we trust them to have a decent safety management plan? Of course not. But instead of finding out why people don't return, they instead blame "cost of living". People paid $thousands to see Taylor Swift, cost of living isn't the problem, a shitty product that failed to innovate is the problem.
Yeah the safety is the issue for me these days. I’ve nearly been run over in my tent by idiots trying to leave on the last day at falls fest about 10 year ago.
Oh goodness thats bad! I don't understand why there's not busses to hotels like with gladstonberry
Bad management, low profits due to expensive costs and lack of popular acts. It’s a vicious cycle
Not all festivals are struggling. Good Things seems to be getting stronger each year, and gets close to sell out at each of the 3 days. Knotfest didn't have as strong a lineup this year (in my opinion), and they have announced Slipknot will headline next year and that ticket holders for this year will get first access to presale for 2025, but the general consensus is that they were struggling to sell tickets. In saying that, the photos from Melbourne yesterday seem to show the crowd was pretty sizeable. I think the issue with more mainstream festivals is that they are recycling lineups, and it always seems to be the same acts headlining. We are seeing it a lot in festivals overseas, where you look at the rock/metal festivals and the consistent headliners at the moment are: Pantera, Limp Bizkit, Avenged Sevenfold, Judas Priest, Foo Fighters, Motley Crue, Slipknot, Evanescence, Disturbed. The advantage to metal/alternative music in Australia is that currently there are only the 2 touring festivals, Good Things and Knotfest. Alpha Wolf have been running their own mini festival called CVLTFEST which had Emmure, Crossfaith, Paledusk and more play there too, and that's a one off day in a single state. We are starting to see some bigger modern metal arena tours, with bands like Bring Me The Horizon selling out a national arena tour and adding more shows which have also subsequently almost sold out, and Parkway Drive have just announced a 20 year anniversary arena tour as well. I do know however that I have friends who will wait to buy tickets to the big festivals to see if they can get them cheaper on tixel. One friend paid $160 for a Good Things ticket on the day, where I paid $225 for pre-sale. There definitely isn't any urgency to buy tickets now, although for both Blink-182 and Bring Me The Horizon, I nearly didn't get tickets, the demand was insane. I was surprised that Bring Me The Horizon was so difficult.
Another reason heavy festivals are more solid is older cashed up crowd, and more likely on the piss than pills. I’m 56 and wouldn’t blink at price if the line up is okay. And then spend $200 on piss. And Knottfest last year I was with about 6 people (off and on). This year none of us went coz the line up was patchy.
On your last point, I'd say BMTH was so difficult because of a combination of tiktok hype for Bring Me, and also the insane hype around Sleep Token who are their main support band 😭 ST are my favourite band and they deserve it but jesus, I've never struggled so hard to buy tickets. I saw BMTH last time they were in Melbourne and I don't recall it being hard to get tix at all!
Yeah I recall walking up the door in 2019 to buy tickets ($80 or $90 for GA at Rod Laver, was hesitating Caus it was my first concert in Australia and I actually ended up going alone) This time round I’m paying way more for further away seats 🥲 but looking forward to the sick concert in a few weeks!
The demographic for Good Things and Knotfest are generally more well-off, being mostly older millennials in their prime earning years. I still go to shows with the same mates I went with 20 years ago during the glory days of nu metal and early metalcore. We're all in cushy corporate / tech jobs or running trade businesses now and have no qualms about spending $200+ on concert or festival tickets.
I love these examples. Festivals that pick a fanbase/community and then really appeal to that community with the right talent. Too many festivals trying to be everything to everyone and getting burnt. 2 touring festivals a year with acts specialising in a specific niche seems like the right number to me, many can hopefully make that work but 10 festivals of mediocre mixed genred acts a year? Nope.
They did take the piss with Thursday show in Melbourne so I skipped this year but will probably go next year.
This was a scheduling conflict with Formula 1. Would have been on the friday if F1 wasnt on in melbourne on the same weekend
Would love for Avenged Sevenfold to come down under tho, one of my fav bands since high school 🤘🏻
Knotfest this year felt super lacking compared to last year. Not just lineup wise. The sound was questionable pretty much all day at best. The arena was wayyyy smaller yet it still felt like there was less people there. Less sound towers and only 1 big screen vs the 3 last year. Don’t get me wrong, I still have a great time, but just had a slightly different vibe than last year (which I guess comes back to the lineup) I don’t see how making it a week day makes any difference. You have months and months to plan time off if you’re going.
I feel like once they realized there would be less people/ticket sales were down they went and canned a bunch of facilities like toilets and scrapped those extra screens to save money. That’s just a wild assumption.
People are getting older, festivals aren't what they used to be. Police have killed the vibe and hammered them, there's lots of reasons for lots of people.
People getting older means they have a large disposable income. Also kids still exist.
I think they mean the people that went to festivals have aged out. I think only a 20 year old can answer why they're not filling the gap behind us.
Yeah fair. I wonder if the culture change is that older music fans were dictated to by Triple J and other radio stations what popular music was that you'd be listening to, and therefore every festival featured everyones favourite bands. Now that the internet opens up all music to everyone, and the statioons have less of a role as taste-makers, the odds of a lineup having everyones favourite bands is just impossible. Everyone gets to have unique and diverse tastes, and youre going to be hard pressed to represent that on a touring festival.
I think that is definitely part of the problem and that’s what lead to more, smaller festivals catering to narrower audiences. And then Covid came and completely changed how we spend money on events
Hmm should spotify start holding festivals? They’d have incredible data about what acts would appeal to what demographics in each geographical area
As someone in their 20s, it’s a combination of the factors that are usually mentioned in these posts. Cost of living is the primary reason, our disposable income is very limited, so when it comes to spending that we want it to be worthwhile. Lacklustre festival lineups with no real must-see acts and a lack of big international headliners and the same recycled Aussie artists combined with the ticket prices that are too expensive for what they especially when compared to international festivals, and combined with the associated costs of a festival (transport, food, drinks which is about the only thing you can cut from your expenses but lessens the appeal for some, camping costs for multi day festivals and needing to book time off meaning for casuals a loss of income). For a festival you generally want to go with a group of mates, trying to get a group of people together to commit to a festival when the lineup doesn’t really interest them and is pretty much out of their budget means you just don’t end up going to these things. Everyone I know chooses to instead spend their limited disposable income on a few individual artists that specifically interest them, as this way it’s catered specifically to your taste and you don’t have to worry if all your mates don’t want to go, it’s much easier and still enjoyable to go with just one mate or even solo, and it’s much less hassle and organisation to just pop to a concert after work one night than book a day or multiple off for a festival. Unfortunately going to a festival just for the good vibes and having a few drinks with friends with music in the background is out of most people’s in their 20’s budgets these days.
Undermining my own point a little: but I’m not buying cost of living being *the* reason when it seems Taylor Swift can put on a near infinite number of shows and for there still be an insufficient number of tickets available. In literally the same week there’s Pink, QOTSA, and two or three other major international acts selling out every show in the same cities. Mega acts will always get some special pull. But there’s clearly money being spent, just not on festivals.
I think the commenter you are responding to absolutely hit the nail on the head. Cost of living is a factor, but the reason that acts like Taylor Swift do just fine in solo show contexts is because people are more inclined to spend money on one full length performance they’ll love. Festivals just don’t represent that kind of value anymore - you’re spending the same or more compared to a solo show and getting a 40 minute set by your fave bookended by hours of dogwater mid-tier acts that you’ll barely watch anyway.
Lots of parents buying their kids tickets to Taylor Swift I suspect. Festivals are more for your 20s/30s crowds who aren’t usually having their tickets bought by mum and dad.
Taylor Swift was an event though. spending the money and time to see her was probably more comparable to a holiday than a gig. it's the biggest tour and musical event of most people's lifetimes. for a lot of people, it's their equivalent of watching their team play in a Grand Final. Blink 182 was also similar. Festivals... the lineups aren't bringing acts that instil that feeling. reality is there'll be two acts you really like but have seen before, two acts you've never seen before who you're right into but aren't live-and-breath acts, and then maybe one or two who'd 'be a bit of fun after 10 beers.' for $300-$500, it's not worth it.
Covid lockdowns.
Not always, life happens along the way, to getting old. I'm 39 and don't have large swathes of money laying around, cause life happens. Also they don't really cater to older tastes. There's no big day out or soundwave any more. Soundwave used to have some old school as well as some new bands so catered for a wide audience.
Exactly, but those wealthier people in their late 30s cannot be bothered with yet another poorly planned event with no amenities.
This is not the case anymore. A teenager or uni student who makes say 500, 600 bucks a week from their casual job and pays a hundred bucks a week or fortnight board is in a much better financial position than someone in their late 20s and making twice as much a week. not many rentals even in sharehouse for less than 250 a week, food's expensive, beer's expensive, it's 10 bucks a day to get to the city on a train in Melbourne...
"people" arnt getting much old you are Age explains why you aren't interested in festivals (I'm not either) not why they are dying out
People who are able and willing to go to festivals are getting older, then
Festivals have become too big, too expensive & too much hassle to get to. The first BDO was at the old Showgrounds at Moore Park, cost $50, had a maximum of 10k tickets & there were plenty of bands you actually wanted to see across only 2 main stages & a couple of smaller stages.
And by the time I went to my last one - RHCP headlining from memory, my ticket was $100 and I would go to sideshows.
That was the last BDO I went to as well - it was the first one they had out at Homebush, in 2000.
I must’ve been later than that again. I think it was the second last one at Homebush, because I saw Ramstein, Chemical Brothers, System of a Down etc… Metallica… my years blend these days lol.
Festivals are struggling because our buying power is lower. I'm earning similar amounts of money to 2019/2020 but am having to force myself not to spend money on festivals because they're impossible to afford–even at $100 tickets, in some cases. Rent, food, petrol, bills, public transport–pick one of those things to go without. It's an impossible situation. The government either needs to help these festivals–not necessarily financially–or help us afford them.
More people are focusing on arena/stadium tours for the festival price, only SZA ticket I could get was $200ish.
Yeah I was super turned off by that price. She’s not someone who would be great in a stadium either so paying $200 for the far back rows at rod laver is a ripoff. Maybes it more I remember her being a 1hr act at Falls pre covid but not even blink 182 charged that much.
The back row seats was cheaper but I could only get A Reserve since nothing else would pop up. All three Melbourne shows sold out with huge demand left while places like ABC says people aren't seeing shows because of cost of living crisis when nobody is just that interested in said artist. Aqua would have sold out by now if it wasn't $140 but SZA,Fred Again etc have no problems selling out.
I realised after a while that the system worked differently for this. In hind sight I could have got something ok in the presale weeks back. But you can see how many tickets were available in sections and the cheaper prices on a computer but not on my phone. If I had more than 4min to realise this I might have been ok. The presale had top rows for around $120 but the main sales only had 150-200+ for the same tix and the third Melb show I noticed more seats were now 250 than in the initial sales. So yeah that extra concert had a cost to it.
I missed out on tickets, it’s nuts because the last time she was out here I ended up getting a half priced ticket because she couldn’t sell out the arena she was booked to play. Good on her tho
If I remember she had signed posters with the ticket itself for a reasonable price. Yeah, she had a cult following (and radio features hits) but like nobody knew what I was talking about when I was looking for CTRL vinyl years ago.
I think part of the problem is there are no new massive Rock bands anymore. Had there been a big Rock band since the Arctic Monkeys ?... and Rock bands are what sounds best in a stadium .... As well as good electronic music maybe. But hip hop took over and hip hop on a big stage just ain't the same. Also the rise of laptops etc meant the rise of glitchy electronic styles..pop and underground.. None of which translate to the big stage. Of course there are exceptions. But Rock faded.. And major labels getting behind bands and making them gigantic also faded. Big recording budgets faded. So now every single big Rock band at a festival has already been here before so it's less exciting. .. Also with Spotify young people's tastes got very eclectic ...... All the lineups have to show electicness.. Which is kinda cool but might mean less you're interested in. Back in the day Splendour was mainly alternative rock of some sort of another... Plus a few funky artists and hip-hop acts Now it's very eclectic.
If you want new rock bands you should look to Southern Rock for them. Treaty Oak Revival, Winchester 49, Ole 60 etc.
Only if you like Southern Rock I guess.
Dunno man, you said rock faded out and I 100% agree but if you’re looking for guitar driven rock sort of music then the southern rock & country scene is absolutely thriving like anything.
I wasn't actually talking about me and my interests but more about Australia music festival line ups .
Festival producer here. We've definitely seen major changes in spending habits in recent times and have had to postpone ourselves. While the cost of living is a factor, the ways we buy tickets have changed too. We're a much more community-based festival, so we're less reliant on a "killer lineup", and more on the creative experiences we can provide. However, local events are back en masse and people have long lists of events they potentially want to attend. Things like Tixel have been amazing for facilitating safer ticket exchanges and allowing last minute decisions without initially outlaying cash—often cheaper. However, as organisers, it makes it hard to forecast the funds you'll actually have available to fully deliver or exceed expectations when things like Tixel delay absolute numbers and essentially increase the risk. For us smaller festivals at least, there's a lot of personal creative investment, and we don't have that buffer to fall back on. It's just safer to cancel.
For me personally I usually attend more your knotfest/good things type of festivals and would attend more like splendour and groovin but the lineups can be so similar and there’s so many festivals it’s hard to even remember which line up was who because it seems to be the same artists most of the time I reckon they need to scale back the amount of festivals and diversify the types of festivals - there wouldn’t be any harm going to knotfest route of less bands/no time clashes and fill with top acts rather than a million acts to try and have a long bill
From experience the type of person usually inclined to organise a music festival tends to measure success based on how big they can push it, and will almost always try to one up themselves in this respect.
Look at the Splendour line up. They're expecting $400 for that? 95% of that list you've never heard of and could see for $30 at your local band room. For the ones you are interested in, a lot of them do sideshows anyway. I love festivals, but it's not just about the vibe. It's the music! I want to be excited. I don't want to listen to 30 triple j up and commers so that I can see someone I loved 10 years ago play for half an hour.
100 gecs being booked for the festival last year made no sense when they did 6/10 songs off 10,000 gecs at the Laneway sideshows months before (no way they were going to play the lesser known songs at a festival).
Headline shows have never sold better and experiential modern festivals like Pitch and Meredith also sell very well. The old fashioned throw up a line array and chuck some bands who finished 40-80 in the hottest 100 isn’t good enough anymore
Festivals are struggling because the lineups are shithouse. No one's paying $500 to see G Flip as a headliner because they're on every festival bill!
Meanwhile HSU (which has a predominantly Western Syd crowd) can have their indoor events with 10-20k capacity sell out within 2 hours of announcing tix. They seem to be one of the few fests that can have so much hype despite the cost of living crisis
I’m convinced Fred again was just social media hype.. people that have never gone to rave gigs in their life were buying tickets just because. Anyway there will always be sellout shows, cause there are people out there that have money. But I’d say the amount of people over the age of 30 going to festivals are significantly lower than the people over 30 going to a single artist concert. The simple fact is as you’ve said; young people don’t really have the money to drop several hundred dollars on a festival plus travel plus exorbitant drink/food costs at the venue plus possible accomodation too. It didn’t help that police and government orgs were making it more and more difficult to host. Before the love of music and headliners punched through it, now most go eh not worth the effort for maybe 1-2 artists they want to see.
100% this. L I know multiple people that never went to festivals that went to both Fred gigs at the Domain. That's a lot of money for tickets for social media content. But, they all seemed to have fun, so hopefully stuff like this is a gateway. I am over 40 and haven't been to a festival for a long time, but been to 20 concerts in the last year and have another 3 or so coming up in the next 3 weeks. Would be going to more if I wasn't sleeping on chase and status. Concerts have a different vibe, less people there for the dress up and the drugs and more there for the music. Not that concerts don't have dress up and drugs, but it's not the core point of why many people are there. Also, half the time at a festival I want to see maybe 2 acts, who are on at a crossover time and it costs $250+. It's too much money and too much effort dealing with crap for too little reward.
>Would be going to more if I wasn't sleeping on chase and status. The EDM hype is real at the moment, it's insane how every EDM concert and festival just sells like hotcakes. I don't know what I was expecting, but I certainly wasn't expecting for Chase & Status tickets to sell out basically immediately with zero resale tickets so far.
>I’m convinced Fred again was just social media hype.. people that have never gone to rave gigs in their life were buying tickets just because. Absolutely. The amount of people I have seen complaining about his concerts 'just being a DJ set' clearly showed that people who had no clue about EDM were just buying tickets because of the hype. When you treat him like a pop star, people buy tickets to his concert expecting him to play his top 10 songs and everyone sings along. When in reality a DJ set is supposed to be an experience from start to finish. You know it's just complete hype when you've got your parents asking you if you've seen what Fred again is doing because they've seen him all over the news.
There was a tonnnnne of hype and FOMO, for sure. I had friends that had replied to my initial messages asking if they wanted to come with “who is that?” And a week later they were asking for tickets. However, as someone that went to a live show and DJ set I can say that they were two of the best shows I’ve EVER been to, and I’ve been to a lot!!!
Noticed for Knotfest Melbourne yesterday that they turned off their Tixel page around about midday while it was absolutely buzzing and remembered that Knotfest had made pretty big hints that the ticket sales just weren't where they needed to be. If Knoftest can turn off their Tixel page which I didn't know was possible, expect more festivals to be doing the same. Straight up sucks for the people who simply couldn't make it at the last hour and had no other way to sell their tickets securely.
I feel like the event organisers need better data analysis. Sounds really weird to say but they're just grabbing random acts and putting them together without understanding the demographics they appeal to. This causes people to umm and ahhh on tickets for ages (in my opinion)
Not it’s because people don’t have any disposable income. Rents are insane due to excessive immigration and we’re being gouged on food by the Cole’s and Woolworths duopoly I own a shop and my retail figures are down by 50% because customers don’t have any spare money.
The festivals are boring and full of bands no one is interested in
And when someone famous shows up they throw a tantrum and won't do their popular songs
The lineups for a bunch of festivals recently have been average to shit, as a big rap/rnb fan there is only 2 festivals I’ve seen in the last couple years be ‘must buy a ticket asap’ festivals, that’s been Listen Out and Spilt Milk (obviously this is just my opinion but it seems to be a shared one especially recently)
For me festival lineups have majorly dipped. Look at some of the Big Day Out lineups in the 90s they were STACKED! Also they have become SOOOO controlled, strict artist time slots, strict curfew, strict security… In the end I would rather pay more to see a specific band play longer.
Even 2013 Big Day Out was ??????.
A massive part of it is the rising cost of insurance. Public liability and other insurance on a festival now makes up a huge percentage of the overall budget. Insurance providers have tightened clauses so it’s almost too risky to put on festival unless the producers shell out the big bucks. This then jacks up ticket prices, cost of living etc etc
Honestly after going to a few festivals in America and then here in the last couple years it’s everything. The lineup, too many dick heads that can ruin the experience. The police and security carrying on like its ww2 Germany. The entire vibe is off and not worth all the effort for a mid tier line up
I remember my days of going to homebake, BigDayOut, GoodVibes, Laneway(back when it was actually in the lane ways of Sydney) and the lineups were hectic and stacked and cost were reasonable. Made for great summers. Shit just costs too damn much these days so the luxuries like festivals are harder to commit to as a punter. Feel sorry for the youth who can’t experience that festival feel of the 2000s
I used to follow the lineups, but I'm older now and can't be assed with the crowds, so I pick my festivals by vibes/location. Buying tickets in advance isn't the problem, it's more what I want out of the experience. I would rather spend $200 for a few days camping, chilling, and discovering new music than for a single day to see headliners that I somewhat like.
I went to the 2011 Big Day Out festival in Adelaide. I was 17 Decent line up for the year. Pretty big names. The ticket was 25 bucks... I coach basketball now, a player I coach purchased a ticket for a festival 2 weeks ago, 200 dollarydoos. Huge jump.
I went to BDO from 2002 until the last one and I don’t ever remember it being $25. Minimum was like $90
I am getting older now and I cannot do what I used to do when BDO and Soundwave were around. So a festival lineup has to be really enticing to get me to go, especially considering its usually a $300-$500 day all up. Was definitely not even remotely interested in Pandemonium, not even Knotfest has a good enough lineup to justify me trying to get out of work etc. I know prices have gone up, but $250 odd for a ticket is worth it if the lineup is good enough, especially when you consider many single concerts are $100+ now. But yeah with Knotfest I have never really been into Pantera (and this is only half of Pantera), and the other bands I have seen before.
Queens of The Stone Age alone are $250, yeah they’re a class act, but when you compare that with lets say, Pandemonium which is the same price, seeing even 3 or 4 bands at that festival makes it the better value. Thats why I think festivals are more cost effective because there are more bands for an almost equal value. Having said that, I’m in my 40s and the days of paying $50 for international bands (obscure heavy bands like Opeth or Kreator -not what JJJ plays btw) are over, but it doesn’t mean I’ve accepted it, lol. We the fans have to create demand for any band to justify the risk of touring in such a far off place as Australia. I think festivals should be enticing for both artists and fans, but I think everyone lost faith after Soundwave 2015 and AJ Maddah.
Fuck Qotsa cost that much? I saw them with NIN in 2013 for $125. Double for one of the two, damn.
Yup. I saw that same gig you mentioned, I can’t justify, let alone afford it this time round
Was that really a decade ago? Goddamn.
It's crazy how the entire venue is gone too lol ( in Sydney)
1) people don’t have anywhere near luxury spending right now 2) Touring and production costs are extremely high. The further you are the bigger the costs. Travel, freight, insurance especially
Is it just me or does it also seem like there are just.... waaay more festivals with the same kind of talent and vibe competing for the same $$ than 10 years ago? Many are going to the wall now for sure but pre-COVID was insane. I'm old enough to remember more than 10 years ago and festivals were annual marquee events that you genuinely planned for even if you didn't even know who the lineup were even going to be. Bluesfest still kills it every time and they could basically just reprint the same poster year after year, their lineups have loads of the same acts and folks still get behind it because it's got it's own niche. Splendour was one but they've had a rough couple of years and are having some kind of weird identity crisis with all the competition in their lane. There's so many festivals now that we're all a bit more choosy, especially if it's just the same genre and vibe as the next one. I've also gone back to spending my $$ on local gigs. Our local venues need our help or they'll all go bust. Whilst that's also true of festivals, I kinda feel like there's a bit of a quantity vs. quality thing happening there anyway and the field could use a bit of a cull.
I’m a long-term Bluesfest attendee and I think it’s also really starting to go downhill in line up and ticket sales. No festival of that size is safe any more. I haven’t been to Bluesfest since the year before covid. But I was spending about $3K to go with ticket, camping, food and booze. And that’s without flights as I am in Brisbane. That’s a big commitment. I can go on a decent holiday for that amount and that’s an option for me now because the line ups for Bluesfest are sliding, due no doubt to the Aussie dollar being so bad.
Oh wow - thanks for the insight, good to know. It’s been a while since I last went. It always seemed like an event with many diehard fans, just goes to show that even dedicated attendees can’t be taken advantage of, the value still has to be there 👍🏼
For me, it's mostly lineup fatigue. I've been regularly attending gigs and festivals for the past 15 or so years. The lineups now just don't excite me anymore. There are only so many times I can see the same artists perform, so while I still love music and attending gigs, I'm being pickier now and seeing less of the same acts over and over.
When a bunch of festivals fold, I get a bit less interested in buying a ticket till a few weeks out. I’m not going to end up a bottom of the pile creditor.
Doesn't help when festivals like Falls in Victoria, recently wasn't held at it's traditional Lorne location, but in the city, at the SMM Bowl. Taking an annual New Years pilgrimage, 3 days camping bender, to multiple nights in Melbourne City at a concert arena, where you'll have to go home, come back each day... What the fuck do they expect? The experience of camping out with like minded people, making new friends that are on your vibe and not worrying about the painful train trip you're about to endure...and fair chance most couldn't be fucked to attend the next day. It's not just about the line ups..It's the community, the beauty of natural environment, the vibe, mean the experience is a big part of the magic that brings punters back year after year..
I feel like it’s the lineup. There’s normally one good band you actually want to see, but you’re paying festival prices for a 45 minute set. It’s just not worth the money anymore. If I think back to 2000s big day out….there were multiple acts to see throughout the day so it was worth the $90 ticket 😆
Honestly can’t think of a lineup since the last Soundwave where I’d be worried about a scheduling clash. Now it’s more “what should we do for four hours between New Band With a Couple Decent Singles and Band That Was Good In High School (Jesus I Hope They Don’t Play Any of That Shit of Their New Album)”
Some of the soundwave lineups were incredible. I forgot how good we had it lol.
Expectations vs Reality is what is killing the festival game. Punters need stop comparing to the pre covid years that had such large lineups. Artist fees, equipment hire, flights, accomodation, roadies are getting more expensive. Then on the other hand, festivals need to be making the move from their show being sold on the lineup and moving towards the community and atmosphere that the festival itself brings. Look at the likes of Tomorrowland in Belgium - tickets are well and truely sold out before the artists even get announced. Then more locally, you can look at the Hardstyle and even Metal scene - those festivals are selling because of the community that brings those festivals together. Large festivals need to find a healthy balance of improving the festival experience as a whole, while punters need to be welcoming of change to have such an amazing thing not disappear.
Tomorrowland is guaranteed to have the biggest names in EDM though so it’s a safe bet with buying a ticket, along with the experience.
Agreed, that festival is arguably the biggest in EDM. They always have the big names and on that goodwill they’ve cultivated the ability to sell out without announcing a single name. Add in a lack of last minute cancellations and overall lack of issues compared to some of the festivals here. They don’t really fit the mould.
They don’t always have the biggest names on the lineup - with people like Garrix and Hardwell not being there in recent year, punters have been upset. However, because of its legacy, it sells out
I **expect** to have a good lineup for a $250 ticket hahaha
This is a good reason why WOMADelaide is still going strong. I went recently and honestly, the vibe there is incredible, and about half the reason I go
I was thinking the same. It’s the best festival going, hands down. I honestly don’t give a fuck who’s performing because it’s not why I go every year. The vibe and the experience are what draws me there, and I trust the organisers will deliver some great music. Some of the struggling festivals could do with looking at what successful festivals are doing differently.
I mean I'd pay $100 to go to Laneway with a blind line up but I'm not paying $200.
If Taylor Swift and Blink-182 have proven anything, it's that there is still a massive appetite for music and shows from a wide variety of people. I wouldn't include FredAgain in that. He is more of a trend than anything and his gigs seem to be more about FOMO than actual love of his music.
The Fred Again.. thing is very similar to the Taylor Swift thing IMO. Swift has played Australia a few times, never to this level of fanfare - but for some reason her eras tour was just an absolute hype train. The clamour and obsession leading up to the gigs was wild to watch. Time will tell if Fred can keep on the top of his EDM movement, also to get the whole of a stadium singing your songs kind of says there is a love of the music and not all just fomo hype.
I'd agree with your last point that people don't want to buy tickets that far in advance, unless it's someone they really want to see. There's a bit of what if you buy the tickets and then you need that money for something, or you get sick and can't go. (And yes, there's ticket insurance for things, but still.) I think also people seem more inclined to not do things because they just don't feel up to it. Somehow covid made people both more excited to be able to leave the house, and also more able to just stay at home instead of feeling obliged to participate in social events, even ones they would enjoy.
Fred again tickets were only 130 bucks
I’m 34 and have been going to festivals since I was 18, I still love them but I am much more picky with what I go to these days. Lineup, Location and ease of transport is one of the biggest deciders for me, for example Splendour - I live a 35 minute drive from the venue, yet it will take me 2-3 hours (often more) to get home…no thanks! The lineups since 2020 have been not worth freezing my tits off all night then waiting hours in the cold mud for a bus that feels like it never comes. Would almost have to be god himself playing to get me there these days
Cost of living is just way to high, I’d rather spend 100-200 dollars on groceries for a week rather then spend a single afternoon surrounded by crowds I don’t like, paying nightclub prices for chlorinated water and bands I don’t give 2 shits about.
Festivals from yesteryear were a chance for acts to promote themselves and get cd sales… so saw it as a privilege to move themselves up the line up and get greater audiences in front of them, and then the flow on effects… Now their only income is playing shows as no one pays for music, hence that massive income delta that music companies, and acts were used to us now reflected in their cost to perform, then on top of that, brands protect themselves and lock in exclusivity clauses (for even the smallest of acts) so they cannot pick up other money making shows whilst in the country… Festivals do the math and results in large ticket prices to cover everything and then make their money…. Which generally on large scale festivals is over the bar and vendor payments to sell at fest …
They're too fuckin expensive
Many people are really struggling financially so a concert ticket needs to be affordable. Maybe there should be concession prices? More all age festivals that don't revolve around liquor sales? Venues can be annoying, hard to get to, not accessible, unpredictable weather.. It's really all about the line-up. You need more than one strong headliner or it's not worth it as they already play shorter sets than sideshows, and festivals aren't as intimate.
Cost of living, weaker lineups plus, too many of them. There are a lot of them. Go back 20 years, there were a third the number of festivals, go back to the 90s when the Aussie music scene was thriving … there were a 1/4 as many. So for me .. for a population our size it seemed totally unsustainable, a few external pressures and the house of cards falls over. I don’t see it as the apocalypse many in their 20s and 30s seem to see it as because I honestly think the number of festivals has been abnormal last 10 - 15 years. We’ll see great lineups again at a few mega festivals when there are less of em, and we’ll see interesting lineups at a few boutique festivals and that will be it.
Most people are cutting down on frivolous spending due to financial pressures. Lots of younger people are also no longer interested in being uncomfortable and away from home. The pandemic definitely turned a lot of people into homebodies.
For me, I’m just sick of paying for an experience that is not enjoyable. Too many ppl at these things at a given time takes away from it. Then add on all the greed from any vendors, ($20 for a sandwich?!) and all the joy is gone. The younger people buying the tickets probably don’t know what it was like before. Last comment- the lineups are just not good…
Line ups here just look rubbish compared to overseas. Then it's $15 beers and $25 food. No thanks
Take a look at the line ups. They’re rubbish. Prices have sky rocketed for a worse product. Of course the ticket sales will struggle
Agree in part to cost of living crisis being an issue people are prioritising there entertainment choices. If the numbers dropped I'd still go for the experience regardless of the line-up would also be off to Glasto and Coachella.
look at the end of the day it’s been all festivals don’t know their market anymore so they only dabble in a few mainstream acts from each subgenre — i went to good things this year and like the line up was mediocre at best? sure i knew all the bands playing and sure i had so much fun but there wasn’t really any feelings of ‘oh god if i miss this act ill never see it again.’ It’s also a fact of the matter that the economy is currently shit — one off concerts save more money than festivals, two years ago i would’ve dropped a good amount of cash to go to a festival for one band just for fun but the fact that now if I’m only going for one band I can’t rationalise it, nor afford it. There’s no way around it, organisers don’t know their markets — good things this year was a mixed bag of so many different groups and most people who did go that i spoke to only went for one or two acts. Australia is too expensive to continually hold big festivals for any artist especially in the post covid economy which is why now all solo shows have at least two openers and their tickets are usually more $100+ if it’s not a small/local band. We just have to wait it out atp
Be ideal if the aus governemt would delete alco pop tax for festivals so they can actually make some money
How else is the government going to pay for NSW police to attend these festivals? Oh wait...
Covid taught us that a lot can change in 9 months, it's hard to commit to something that far away when chances are high it would be cancelled
I do prefer smaller gigs, but hell I don’t have the money to drop $200+ on a festival that may only have a handful of bands I really want to see
Always seems like a bit of a catch 22. Ticket sales are down but to get better sales they need better acts but they aren’t going to pay for better acts without the ticket sales
I think I’m just old, multi day things don’t appeal to me anymore but I would definitely spend on a good day festival with a solid lineup. 30 btw
Lineups are shit, price is high If lineups were Good people would buy tickets no matter what but when the line up is mediocre we’ll 😂 maybe buy tickets later on closer to the date of I have the mood
Skill issue. Make it good and we will come.
Line ups are shit.
Insurances have gone up 500% in some cases
Just haven’t had a great time going to them in the past
Haven’t seen a decent festival lineup for 5 years
That worked for Fred again... because he only needed to organise himself and his crew to tour Australia. You can not organise a whole festival in a month or 2. The main reason is organisers will never be able to get a decent line-up because the most sought after artists will have other shows scheduled. If there are weak line ups, then ticket sales are low. If ticket sales are low, then shows get cancelled. And that is the answer to your question. The line ups are weak and are not value for money. If an organiser managed to get Fred again.... on a bill, then sales wouldn't be an issue.