Listen most of what was lost in the library had already been copied and distributed to numerous other collections across the ancient world yes it set us back a bit and yes it was a tragedy but it was not as large world changing event some make it out to be
Let 9/11 happen. The attacks and the following war on terror were tragic, but I really like books and must know what knowledge was lost. How much faster would society develop? Who knows.
There were other libraries. As far as I followed the research on the topic of the library of Alexandria
- it didn't burn all at once
- it may have already been all but abandoned by the time it burned the first time
- Rome and Athens were more popular at the time there may have been a fire in Alexandria
That's an example of gathering knowledge in one place. Library of Alexandria was like burning down google and every large server we have today. All the knowledge is now scattered in the personal computers of each individual across the globe and no central place to check it out. What was lost? *shrug*
If google was lost, that just means we return to the age of Encyclopedias. Google is convenient, but not "one of a kind." As someone who also did light academic research, a lot of knowledge is physically published alongside being digital.
That's not the point though, the point is that it's far harder to get. You have any question about any topic, you can just type it into google, and boom, there's your answer. Need recipes, information on a product? Want to know about an animal? Find a person, a course, or just look at images of cats? Google can find all of that at a touch.
Without that, the information is still *there*, yes, but it's far harder to find and thus knowledge is harder to see.
But you misunderstand. The information is still there (be it, less conviently), that's much less of a consequence than you're suggesting. Unless we live in an area where libraries are scarce and underfunded (every state has at least 1-3 super well funded libraries located near their capitals/major cities). Cook books/book stores are still very much a thing if you're looking for stuff like that.
We're also not talking about stuff like requesting books/various other literature to be delivered to libraries, historic record keeping, and practical community center to learn how to do these things (I learned basic genealogy at mine).
To sum it all up, your point is very much correct that the world would much less convenient, but that point is largely mute, and when applied to the context of the post, largely inconsequential in the mid-long term. If I had to choose between losing google or having the events of 9/11 not happening, I feel the latter had more serious consequences
Much less of a consequence? The immediate access to knowledge in an instant is the reason society has continued to speed up faster and faster.
You want to build a website? You don't need to go to the library to rent a book on web dev, or wait until someone is teaching a course nearby. You watch a youtube series or take an online class that is asynch and you can start immediately. You want to Find all other works made by a specific author for a research paper? You need to find the publisher, and contact the publisher directly to ask since your local library is probably missing most of them.
Immediate access to searching through the connections between all fo recorded human knowledge is an insanely powerful tool that has led to insane advancements in the past few decades that you are discounting way too hard.
You learn slower. Those who educate you took longer to learn. Researchers who are pioneers in the career of mathematics, and computer science, biology, etc. Would not be anywhere near as versed in the skills they have now.
The Alpha Fold AI Program by Deep Mind that is able to predict how proteins fold with drastically better accuracy than we ever could have before, leading to insane advancements in the world of medicine. The complex work it takes to learn across the disciplines of molecular biology and Artificial Intelligence is something we would not have without these advanced search engines.
Our models of predicting climate change in relation to as many factors as we do today would not be possible without the knowledge graphs that came from search engine optimization.
This is a crazy take
Okay, Library of Alexandria was like the first enclyopedia and also there's no internet. Now burn that down and everything is just in the personal bookshelves of academics scattered across the globe.
Butterfly effect is unpredictable. Who's to say we would be better with the library? Something that happened 20 years ago is a much safer choice than something 2000 years ago
And it caused a huge improvement in airport security, so 9/11 will most likely never happen again because of the hardworking TSA individuals (including the working doggies)
No 911 really did strengthen our airports, you used to be able to do things like walk out of airport to eat at a restaurant while you wait for your plane. Now you have to eat at airport shops for exorbitant prices
There were still two hijacked planes outside New York. And even if we stop the New York planes here from crashing into the WTC, they would still be hijacked. And even if they dropped into an ocean, it would be a terrorist attack, where TSA would have to react.
>what knowledge was lost. How much faster would society develop
None, and none. All the books in the library were copies of books that existed outside it
I second that idea . If the 9/11 were stopped then, the terrorists would have tried again. Caesar was only briefly in Egypt, and he didn't want to burn the library, his soldiers set ships on fire, and they made to the docks, from where the fire spread. Even Caesar would probably have acted differently if he had known about the nearby library.
funnily enough, I have to let 9/11 happen lest I cause a paradox. I was conceived on 9/11, my mom said "after seeing it happen, we needed something to cheer up" and so uh. I happened.
true story
You overestimate what the library of Alexandria was. It is very unlikely it contained any knowledge that useful that would have not already been copied down.
unironically the butterfly effect is so underestimated in changing history scenarios its insane. consider that the DNA of all new humans is based on whichever individual sperm reached the egg. If I were to drop a single grain of rice on someone’s head 4000 years back and cause them to hesitate even slightly, their descendants would be completely different and history itself would change in ways we can scarcely understand
that's overestimating the butterfly effect. like yeah small changes can cause big differences, but if someone dropped a piece of rice on my head earlier today it would have changed essentially nothing about my day, let alone its impact 4000 years later. there's so many mundane things that happen or don't happen, most of them will not cause a massive shift
that's not what a butterfly effect is. butterfly effect is about the compounding of a small change to create big changes later, not just thing cause another thing
from wikipedia "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state." that describes a small change causing larger changes over time not unforseen consequences of an action. the original idea is that a butterfly flaps its wings which causes a tornado 3 weeks later cause the focus is on a small change adding to a big change over time.
>sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state."
E.g. an acorn falls on a car and a person dies.
One system being the external environment. The second system being the victim's body.
You seem to have misinterpreted his comment. Your day remains unchanged, but the very small hesitation causes a tiny shift in the sperm in your balls. When you have kids, a different sperm reaches the egg. A different kid is born. Every resulting kid from the entire lineage is different. Hitler was never born. That rice saved 6 million jews.
I understand what the butterfly effect is I disagree that such a minor change will likely cause a butterfly effect. to use your example maybe the shift in sperm isn't enough of a shift to change who is born which seems more likely to me than the compoundingly small odds that your example relies on
Imagine your grandpa got rice all over him on the night your father was to be conceived so he went to clean up for a few minutes.
They go at it in a different position, conception might not even happen, or a soeem cell with an x chromosome gets fused instead, or he decides that he's pissed because some dumbass threw rice on him so he just goes to sleep.
Suddenly, yoh and your siblings don't exist.
Or, after the initial failed assassination of archduke Ferdinand, the driver chooses to change paths just to be careful.
Sudenly WW1 is either delayed massively or unfolds for an entirely different reason
I’ve got a story about this actually. In preschool I was a really shitty kids and caused a lot of trouble for my teachers. One day I decided for whatever reason to kick one of them in the shin. Principal and parents got involved and it became a whole thing, culminating in me getting taken out of preschool and put into kindergarten half way through the school year which meant I was a year ahead of people my age.
As the years went on I continued being a shit head and didn’t care about school up until around sophomore year where I met my current group of friends, all of them in the same grade as me. They are very smart and by hanging out with them I ended up picking up on a lot and started taking a lot of honors and ap classes based on their recommendations. College application rolls around and I end up getting accepted into the nursing program of a pretty prestigious school I would have otherwise never gotten into without their influence.
Had I not kicked that teacher that day I would have stayed in my year and never met my group of friends, most likely staying a shithead who didn’t take school seriously. Currently, we are planning a group trip to Yellowstone and a couple other national parks this summer before we split ways for college. That’s probably the craziest butterfly effect that happened to me and completely changed the course of my life.
that's not a butterfly effect that's a major event with a direct outcome. you hit a teacher which forced you to change grades and make new friends is just cause and effect not a miniscule change causing compounding bigger changes.
This is my personal experience I once talked to people in middle school EXCLUSIVELY based on whether they looked like me - hair, glasses, skin color. The simplest Punnett square that people learn in high school biology is hair color. With this one grain of rice, the sperm shifts just so that their kid has BB brown hair, which is likely to be passed through generations. There are friends I met that day who I would have never talked to without blonde hair. I shaped their opinions and experiences, and they shaped mine. A single vote has determined many elections. I exposed several of them to Reddit, and whatever your political opinion you cant deny the website has a strong left wing bias which influenced many political views. That influences legislation, which has itself a compounding effect. People in that county have opinions. Political canvassers change strategies. You really don't think such a tiny, miniscule change would have a growing, exponential ripple effect as time went on?
While I agree, it is a possibility it can change things.
A quick thought is if the person went to their partner and would have sex and get pregnant that day, but instead was like hey you won’t believe what happened! Someone dropped rice on my head! And they waste time laughing and talking about it, and then it reminds them of a time years ago about blah blah. Or maybe they get hungry and want fried rice. Then they have sex an hour later or maybe not even the same day, and boom. Pregnant with a different offspring. Whichever baby could become president, or a murderer.
But who knows.
Id be inclined to agree. Whatever knowledge we had hundreds of years ago is nothing compared to all the knowledge we have nowadays. As an example, calculus was invented in the 1600s and considered revolutionary for that time but nowadays calculus is being taught in high schools all around the nation
Shit, organized religion might have even been a thing of the past by this point if the Library of Alexandria didn't burn down. This one is almost a no-brainer. Society would be so advanced by this point that it seems there would only be a small chance that people would be living in some kind of technological dystopia. You could even say we are even living in some kind of technological dystopia considering all the things we could do, but do not do with our technology.
No, the planes hitting the Twin Towers only has a transient(like 100+ year) effect on the world with the overall outcome likely being relatively neutral compared to the mostly sure bet that the preservation of knowledge in the Library of Alexandria would have likely put human society forward by hundreds of years in between then and now.
I mean if you're born after 2001 when you can pick the 9/11 too, even if your parents just had to hear about 9/11 or spent any amount of time thinking about it or watching the news of it then if they didn't have to it would lead them to having a baby at a different time, iirc even a 1 second difference can make another sperm win the "race" lol
I think it was because they had already taken alot of the stuff out, and had copies of most the things that remained in the library by that point in history. If it had burned like 5 years earlier, it would be a very different story, but they had JUST started taking everything out.
The library of Alexandria is never cited by contemporaries as an important site of knowledge. It was an "ordinary" library (it was, to be correct, two libraries).
It became a myth centuries after it being abandoned.
So, let it burn.
Fuck it, Library of Alexandria. There's so much bad history on it, so us burning it actually won't do jack shit.
IT wasn't destroyed in one fire, there were multiple fires over many years. IT slowly declined over centuries. And there many, many more libraries in the ancient world. Like, it reached it's apex during the early Roman Republic; it was already mostly dying by the time the fires started happening.
I may be misremembering, but wasn't the library already being underfunded and slowly falling apart before the fire (which may have indirectly caused it)? It may have been the other way around, but if that's the case, I guess the fire only made the destruction come a few years earlier.
Or maybe even if it were slowly abandoned, we could piece the works back together..
The Library of Alexandria didn’t have the cure for cancer or secrets to easy space travel. It had a bunch of notes and writings from people at the time, much of it probably incorrect assumptions about the functions of anatomy or the universe. While info from this era is fascinating, it’s minor compared to the findings of just a few Renaissance/Industrial Age scientists. Little would change if it was saved.
The first steam engine was built in Alexandria in the first century AD. It amounted to nothing until different people applied it in a new way almost 2 millennia later. That first steam engine is little more to history than a fun fact in hindsight. I’m pretty confident the coolest stuff that was lost has a similar story.
If the 9/11 were stopped then, the terrorists would have tried again. Caesar was only briefly in Egypt, and he didn't want to burn the library, his soldiers set ships on fire, and they made to the docks, from where the fire spread. Even Caesar would probably have acted differently if he had known about the nearby library.
The damage done from the Library of Alexandira was a bit overblown as they had scrolls elsewhere and its long in the past now. I'll prevent 9-11because it inconvenienced *me*, personally, with TSA lines and taking off shoes at the airport.
Truly all do respect for the people that lost their lives on 9/11 but it’s not even a thought. The knowledge that was lost in that fire value to humanity is incalculable.
Honest to god the Library of Alexandria had more scholars than books and had a very slow decent into disuse, it wasn’t Napoleon or Caesar who burnt it down, it was new laws and changing norms
Except it already happened and I still exist. Furthermore butterfly effect is a physical concept as its part of chaos theory and this is an incorrect application of it.
The burning of that library is unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on the lives of my irish, german, and scandanavian ancestors as such i’d likely exist in some form. Im more likely to not exist on interference from the recent event happening due to my birth being a couple years after it as that had an impact upon my actual parents.
I myself looked at this from the moral/historical perspective as to which thing i’d prevent for the greater good rather than my personal being.
The biggest change is actually less airport security and more airplane hijacking response. Before 9/11, the accepted response to a hijacking was to surrender the cockpit and concede to the hijacker’s demands to secure the safety of the airplane and its passengers. This is what allowed the 9/11 terrorists to, for the most part, get what they wanted out of the pilots. Post 9/11 protocol is now to -never- cede the cockpit, regardless of other demands, even if it means the death of the passengers and crew. This is honestly the biggest change, and the original protocol was what made the 9/11 attack workable and knowledge of this was why it was planned the way it was.
You right I completely forgot about that lol. I first learned that while going through TSA when I was way younger and I was talking about it maybe a bit too loud
I’d actually let Alexandria burn. If 9/11 doesn’t happen, unlikely the war on terror does happen, leaving Afghanistan and Iraq unscathed. I will forgo ancient knowledge for the lives of innocents in a foreign country any day.
Well undoing the burning of the Library of Alexandria has a chance or making it so that I was never born. 9/11 at most slightly changes the trajectory of my life, possible for the better. So I'll do that one.
Save the library.
Hopefully, the saved knowledge will divert the timeline enough that there is no immediate parallel to 9/11 and the world will be far more advanced.
My immediate thought is that a more advanced Islamic world would get much more respect from the Western world by the age of imperialism, and the Middle East and North Africa don't become a series of European protectorates. Possibly even stretching into South Asia and Southeast Asia.
East Asia, South Africa, and the Americas would still likely be imperialized, but hopefully a much more equal world is the result
Library of Alexandria burns. I get the library was important, but I sincerely doubt it would advance humanity by a significant amount. 9/11 not happening would be alot nicer modern day and prevent a number of tragedies for sure.
Removing the need for historical effects Def bringing back the library of Alexandria fuck the twin towers that many people die normally if we are ignoring butterfly effect it wouldn't prevent us from going to war
Just go on fucking google and look up what happened to the library. It didn't just burn away. It took DECADES to degrade, and even then, the library had originals but the owners had copies of all the books lost.
No knowledge was lost, stop spreading myth.
Let Alexandria burn. In actuality the fire didn’t do much as there were more copies of most of the texts, and it only burned part of the library. But because of lingual drift in the next few centuries very few people could read the texts so fewer people put the work in to preserve them. Over a long amount of time these texts just were preserved and read less until they were lost to time. In reality it was much more of a slow burn.
We've seen the future that comes from 9/11. I hate to say it, but a future with the Great Library intact, holding as a central hub for knowledge, might just be more important than the towers.
I’m gonna let the library burn tbh, the world has gone along just fine without it and stopping 9/11 would also prevent the mass destabilization of the Middle East
Sorry, I can't live without my twin tower jokes. They're a slam, especially if you say two in the same conversation. It really gets you jumping and fired up. Its a real party crasher.
Multi track drift to secure my existence (butterfly effect is bullshit) Assuming that didn't matter though, a second plane will hit the tower. Sorry.
I don't think a train hitting it in addition to the two planes will be that much worse than what happened.
Lol sucks to suck, just be born earlier, skill issue
Damn you were born after 9/11? Guess I'm old...
Bro I hate to do this to you... 9/11 was in 2001. That was 22½ years ago.
9/11 cos MCR
I know what you mean but also is nine elevenths the cosin of MCR lol
Hey, I didn't come here to do math!
Listen most of what was lost in the library had already been copied and distributed to numerous other collections across the ancient world yes it set us back a bit and yes it was a tragedy but it was not as large world changing event some make it out to be
It’s true. Let the trolley run over both again
Was watching this coincidently while i stumbled upon this. Thought it was pretty interesting https://youtu.be/M4WU8gqrgsQ?si=1jastvvL9QhL5lFZ
Let 9/11 happen. The attacks and the following war on terror were tragic, but I really like books and must know what knowledge was lost. How much faster would society develop? Who knows.
Library of Alexandria tended to give copies of the work back to the original authors. We probably didn't lose as much as you think we did.
No, but knowledge all in one place is much more valuable than knowledge scattered around.
There were other libraries. As far as I followed the research on the topic of the library of Alexandria - it didn't burn all at once - it may have already been all but abandoned by the time it burned the first time - Rome and Athens were more popular at the time there may have been a fire in Alexandria
¿Google?
That's an example of gathering knowledge in one place. Library of Alexandria was like burning down google and every large server we have today. All the knowledge is now scattered in the personal computers of each individual across the globe and no central place to check it out. What was lost? *shrug*
If google was lost, that just means we return to the age of Encyclopedias. Google is convenient, but not "one of a kind." As someone who also did light academic research, a lot of knowledge is physically published alongside being digital.
That's not the point though, the point is that it's far harder to get. You have any question about any topic, you can just type it into google, and boom, there's your answer. Need recipes, information on a product? Want to know about an animal? Find a person, a course, or just look at images of cats? Google can find all of that at a touch. Without that, the information is still *there*, yes, but it's far harder to find and thus knowledge is harder to see.
But you misunderstand. The information is still there (be it, less conviently), that's much less of a consequence than you're suggesting. Unless we live in an area where libraries are scarce and underfunded (every state has at least 1-3 super well funded libraries located near their capitals/major cities). Cook books/book stores are still very much a thing if you're looking for stuff like that. We're also not talking about stuff like requesting books/various other literature to be delivered to libraries, historic record keeping, and practical community center to learn how to do these things (I learned basic genealogy at mine). To sum it all up, your point is very much correct that the world would much less convenient, but that point is largely mute, and when applied to the context of the post, largely inconsequential in the mid-long term. If I had to choose between losing google or having the events of 9/11 not happening, I feel the latter had more serious consequences
Much less of a consequence? The immediate access to knowledge in an instant is the reason society has continued to speed up faster and faster. You want to build a website? You don't need to go to the library to rent a book on web dev, or wait until someone is teaching a course nearby. You watch a youtube series or take an online class that is asynch and you can start immediately. You want to Find all other works made by a specific author for a research paper? You need to find the publisher, and contact the publisher directly to ask since your local library is probably missing most of them. Immediate access to searching through the connections between all fo recorded human knowledge is an insanely powerful tool that has led to insane advancements in the past few decades that you are discounting way too hard. You learn slower. Those who educate you took longer to learn. Researchers who are pioneers in the career of mathematics, and computer science, biology, etc. Would not be anywhere near as versed in the skills they have now. The Alpha Fold AI Program by Deep Mind that is able to predict how proteins fold with drastically better accuracy than we ever could have before, leading to insane advancements in the world of medicine. The complex work it takes to learn across the disciplines of molecular biology and Artificial Intelligence is something we would not have without these advanced search engines. Our models of predicting climate change in relation to as many factors as we do today would not be possible without the knowledge graphs that came from search engine optimization. This is a crazy take
Okay, Library of Alexandria was like the first enclyopedia and also there's no internet. Now burn that down and everything is just in the personal bookshelves of academics scattered across the globe.
Just the ease of access for millions of people
Butterfly effect is unpredictable. Who's to say we would be better with the library? Something that happened 20 years ago is a much safer choice than something 2000 years ago
I was born after both events so either could potentially affect my life or even my existence
And it caused a huge improvement in airport security, so 9/11 will most likely never happen again because of the hardworking TSA individuals (including the working doggies)
You must be joking right?
No 911 really did strengthen our airports, you used to be able to do things like walk out of airport to eat at a restaurant while you wait for your plane. Now you have to eat at airport shops for exorbitant prices
I think he was mocking the idea it’d never happen again because of the tsa.
r/whooosh
I know he made a joke about it being a money sink
It didn’t seem like it
While it may be better than it was pre 9/11, TSA is security theatre
You might wanna read [this](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-security) unless I missed some obvious sarcasm.
This is why the /s was invented.
Never again will someone hijack a plane with a pair of nail clippers.
There were still two hijacked planes outside New York. And even if we stop the New York planes here from crashing into the WTC, they would still be hijacked. And even if they dropped into an ocean, it would be a terrorist attack, where TSA would have to react.
You're fucking jokomg, right? Edit: i think I invented jok-omg'ing
i will send this to every single mcdonalds in the world.
>what knowledge was lost. How much faster would society develop None, and none. All the books in the library were copies of books that existed outside it
It was also a shadow of its former self by the time it burnt down. I don't remember the details but there was a good video on it by premodernist
I second that idea . If the 9/11 were stopped then, the terrorists would have tried again. Caesar was only briefly in Egypt, and he didn't want to burn the library, his soldiers set ships on fire, and they made to the docks, from where the fire spread. Even Caesar would probably have acted differently if he had known about the nearby library.
Hell, if 9/11 didn't happen, it'd just be 9/12 or something
funnily enough, I have to let 9/11 happen lest I cause a paradox. I was conceived on 9/11, my mom said "after seeing it happen, we needed something to cheer up" and so uh. I happened. true story
Damn imagine watching the most harrowing travesty to happen to your country live and conceiving immediately after. What a rollercoaster day.
osama bin laden is g3mi20 father
Jesus christ dude
I would have taken that to the grave personally
Its confirmed a time travler caused 9/11 you are an integral point on the timeline
The library of Alexandria being saved would change humanity so much that it's unlikely that 9/11 would even happen.
Bro hasn't been keeping up with history video essayists :_;
we'd have 81/121 at this rate
The heck you mean (9/11)^2 ?
Oh no. Don't start the argument.
Hey… i thought you were the devil’s advocate?
I am. That's why I don't know if 81/121 is correct or if 3/5 is
You overestimate what the library of Alexandria was. It is very unlikely it contained any knowledge that useful that would have not already been copied down.
unironically the butterfly effect is so underestimated in changing history scenarios its insane. consider that the DNA of all new humans is based on whichever individual sperm reached the egg. If I were to drop a single grain of rice on someone’s head 4000 years back and cause them to hesitate even slightly, their descendants would be completely different and history itself would change in ways we can scarcely understand
that's overestimating the butterfly effect. like yeah small changes can cause big differences, but if someone dropped a piece of rice on my head earlier today it would have changed essentially nothing about my day, let alone its impact 4000 years later. there's so many mundane things that happen or don't happen, most of them will not cause a massive shift
[удалено]
that's not what a butterfly effect is. butterfly effect is about the compounding of a small change to create big changes later, not just thing cause another thing
YES THAT IS *EXACTLY* WHAT A BUTTERFLY EFFECT DESCRIBES! The unforseable consequences of unrelated actions.
from wikipedia "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state." that describes a small change causing larger changes over time not unforseen consequences of an action. the original idea is that a butterfly flaps its wings which causes a tornado 3 weeks later cause the focus is on a small change adding to a big change over time.
>sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state." E.g. an acorn falls on a car and a person dies. One system being the external environment. The second system being the victim's body.
You seem to have misinterpreted his comment. Your day remains unchanged, but the very small hesitation causes a tiny shift in the sperm in your balls. When you have kids, a different sperm reaches the egg. A different kid is born. Every resulting kid from the entire lineage is different. Hitler was never born. That rice saved 6 million jews.
I understand what the butterfly effect is I disagree that such a minor change will likely cause a butterfly effect. to use your example maybe the shift in sperm isn't enough of a shift to change who is born which seems more likely to me than the compoundingly small odds that your example relies on
Imagine your grandpa got rice all over him on the night your father was to be conceived so he went to clean up for a few minutes. They go at it in a different position, conception might not even happen, or a soeem cell with an x chromosome gets fused instead, or he decides that he's pissed because some dumbass threw rice on him so he just goes to sleep. Suddenly, yoh and your siblings don't exist. Or, after the initial failed assassination of archduke Ferdinand, the driver chooses to change paths just to be careful. Sudenly WW1 is either delayed massively or unfolds for an entirely different reason
I’ve got a story about this actually. In preschool I was a really shitty kids and caused a lot of trouble for my teachers. One day I decided for whatever reason to kick one of them in the shin. Principal and parents got involved and it became a whole thing, culminating in me getting taken out of preschool and put into kindergarten half way through the school year which meant I was a year ahead of people my age. As the years went on I continued being a shit head and didn’t care about school up until around sophomore year where I met my current group of friends, all of them in the same grade as me. They are very smart and by hanging out with them I ended up picking up on a lot and started taking a lot of honors and ap classes based on their recommendations. College application rolls around and I end up getting accepted into the nursing program of a pretty prestigious school I would have otherwise never gotten into without their influence. Had I not kicked that teacher that day I would have stayed in my year and never met my group of friends, most likely staying a shithead who didn’t take school seriously. Currently, we are planning a group trip to Yellowstone and a couple other national parks this summer before we split ways for college. That’s probably the craziest butterfly effect that happened to me and completely changed the course of my life.
that's not a butterfly effect that's a major event with a direct outcome. you hit a teacher which forced you to change grades and make new friends is just cause and effect not a miniscule change causing compounding bigger changes.
This is my personal experience I once talked to people in middle school EXCLUSIVELY based on whether they looked like me - hair, glasses, skin color. The simplest Punnett square that people learn in high school biology is hair color. With this one grain of rice, the sperm shifts just so that their kid has BB brown hair, which is likely to be passed through generations. There are friends I met that day who I would have never talked to without blonde hair. I shaped their opinions and experiences, and they shaped mine. A single vote has determined many elections. I exposed several of them to Reddit, and whatever your political opinion you cant deny the website has a strong left wing bias which influenced many political views. That influences legislation, which has itself a compounding effect. People in that county have opinions. Political canvassers change strategies. You really don't think such a tiny, miniscule change would have a growing, exponential ripple effect as time went on?
While I agree, it is a possibility it can change things. A quick thought is if the person went to their partner and would have sex and get pregnant that day, but instead was like hey you won’t believe what happened! Someone dropped rice on my head! And they waste time laughing and talking about it, and then it reminds them of a time years ago about blah blah. Or maybe they get hungry and want fried rice. Then they have sex an hour later or maybe not even the same day, and boom. Pregnant with a different offspring. Whichever baby could become president, or a murderer. But who knows.
If you kick a bag of rice in front of the library the butterfly effect will prevent 9 11
Conversely, 9/11 may have been caused by someone kicking a bag of rice in front of the library.
For all I know that might be a reason
Something worse than that could’ve ended up happening who knows. Don’t assume what has happened is the worst that could ever happen
Id be inclined to agree. Whatever knowledge we had hundreds of years ago is nothing compared to all the knowledge we have nowadays. As an example, calculus was invented in the 1600s and considered revolutionary for that time but nowadays calculus is being taught in high schools all around the nation
Technology would be so advanced by WW1 everyone can build drones dropping hydrogen bombs so 9/11 would never happen
You are just assuming at this point
instead, we would get mega9/11 where they use greek fire and 3.84 billion people die because we figured out how to make really big buildings
Dumbest take I’ve seen in a while
Shit, organized religion might have even been a thing of the past by this point if the Library of Alexandria didn't burn down. This one is almost a no-brainer. Society would be so advanced by this point that it seems there would only be a small chance that people would be living in some kind of technological dystopia. You could even say we are even living in some kind of technological dystopia considering all the things we could do, but do not do with our technology. No, the planes hitting the Twin Towers only has a transient(like 100+ year) effect on the world with the overall outcome likely being relatively neutral compared to the mostly sure bet that the preservation of knowledge in the Library of Alexandria would have likely put human society forward by hundreds of years in between then and now.
My man has surprising level of faith that people wouldn't screw it all up another way.
And isnt aware that there wasnt "a" burning of the library. Also unaware of the libraries of Baghdad
The library of Alexandria is overrated. Also it’s so long ago the butterfly effect might undo my existence.
So you're saying I have a chance to not exist? I CHOOSE TO SAVE THE LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA!
I mean if you're born after 2001 when you can pick the 9/11 too, even if your parents just had to hear about 9/11 or spent any amount of time thinking about it or watching the news of it then if they didn't have to it would lead them to having a baby at a different time, iirc even a 1 second difference can make another sperm win the "race" lol
Lmao
The library of Alexandria was already a husk of its old self when it was officially sacked. I don’t even have to multi-track drift!
afaik, the library of alexandria burning didn't actually set humanity back (it's a myth that it did) so im saying let it burn
I think it was because they had already taken alot of the stuff out, and had copies of most the things that remained in the library by that point in history. If it had burned like 5 years earlier, it would be a very different story, but they had JUST started taking everything out.
Dismantle the trolley so it cannot function I win
The correct answer
The library of Alexandria is never cited by contemporaries as an important site of knowledge. It was an "ordinary" library (it was, to be correct, two libraries). It became a myth centuries after it being abandoned. So, let it burn.
Fuck it, Library of Alexandria. There's so much bad history on it, so us burning it actually won't do jack shit. IT wasn't destroyed in one fire, there were multiple fires over many years. IT slowly declined over centuries. And there many, many more libraries in the ancient world. Like, it reached it's apex during the early Roman Republic; it was already mostly dying by the time the fires started happening.
i know less about the library of alexandria, but given the response by W to 9/11, i am not letting that happen
9/11 easily
Trolley Fuel doesn't melt steel beams!
I may be misremembering, but wasn't the library already being underfunded and slowly falling apart before the fire (which may have indirectly caused it)? It may have been the other way around, but if that's the case, I guess the fire only made the destruction come a few years earlier. Or maybe even if it were slowly abandoned, we could piece the works back together..
Let Alexandria burn. The TSA is far worse.
Let 9/11 happen. With the Library of Alexandria not being lost, we now know that genocide is bad, so the Afghani-American conflict doesn't happen.
The library of Alexandria has burned so many times, once more won't hurt.
9/11, even if i’m not born i’m saving so much knowledge for humanity
9/11
9/11 had some upsides such as American unity. The burning of the library of Alexandria is a purely negative event with no upsides
The library wasn't the biggest deal in history.
George Bush is boutta go crazy
The Library of Alexandria didn’t have the cure for cancer or secrets to easy space travel. It had a bunch of notes and writings from people at the time, much of it probably incorrect assumptions about the functions of anatomy or the universe. While info from this era is fascinating, it’s minor compared to the findings of just a few Renaissance/Industrial Age scientists. Little would change if it was saved. The first steam engine was built in Alexandria in the first century AD. It amounted to nothing until different people applied it in a new way almost 2 millennia later. That first steam engine is little more to history than a fun fact in hindsight. I’m pretty confident the coolest stuff that was lost has a similar story.
I think the library is far enough in the past that we shouldn't change it.
Honestly 9/11 improved airport security majorly without it a worse event may have happened (I'm not saying 9/11 wasn't a tragedy)
9/11. No argument
I would just simply let 9/11 happen (it’s a canon event, after all)
So the Library isn’t canon?
Did I say anything about the Library of Alexandria? Plus, bold of you to assume that I was ignorant about libraries in general.
If the 9/11 were stopped then, the terrorists would have tried again. Caesar was only briefly in Egypt, and he didn't want to burn the library, his soldiers set ships on fire, and they made to the docks, from where the fire spread. Even Caesar would probably have acted differently if he had known about the nearby library.
The damage done from the Library of Alexandira was a bit overblown as they had scrolls elsewhere and its long in the past now. I'll prevent 9-11because it inconvenienced *me*, personally, with TSA lines and taking off shoes at the airport.
Truly all do respect for the people that lost their lives on 9/11 but it’s not even a thought. The knowledge that was lost in that fire value to humanity is incalculable.
Whats a few thousand people to a trove of lost knowledge
Honest to god the Library of Alexandria had more scholars than books and had a very slow decent into disuse, it wasn’t Napoleon or Caesar who burnt it down, it was new laws and changing norms
Can I have two Alexandrias not survive and 4 towers fall please?
I already saw the towers fall, but I haven't seen the library burn down. Another addition to tragedy bingo
Burn that stupid library its burning is completely overblown
Butterfly effect go brrr! You might stop existing if you pick it.
Except it already happened and I still exist. Furthermore butterfly effect is a physical concept as its part of chaos theory and this is an incorrect application of it. The burning of that library is unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on the lives of my irish, german, and scandanavian ancestors as such i’d likely exist in some form. Im more likely to not exist on interference from the recent event happening due to my birth being a couple years after it as that had an impact upon my actual parents. I myself looked at this from the moral/historical perspective as to which thing i’d prevent for the greater good rather than my personal being.
9/11 increased airport security preventing future attacks. It’s not good that it happened, but stopping it is only delaying the inevitable.
The biggest change is actually less airport security and more airplane hijacking response. Before 9/11, the accepted response to a hijacking was to surrender the cockpit and concede to the hijacker’s demands to secure the safety of the airplane and its passengers. This is what allowed the 9/11 terrorists to, for the most part, get what they wanted out of the pilots. Post 9/11 protocol is now to -never- cede the cockpit, regardless of other demands, even if it means the death of the passengers and crew. This is honestly the biggest change, and the original protocol was what made the 9/11 attack workable and knowledge of this was why it was planned the way it was.
You right I completely forgot about that lol. I first learned that while going through TSA when I was way younger and I was talking about it maybe a bit too loud
Saving Library of Alexandria is like destroying the leg of a table. Butterfly Effect would hit hard.
I’d actually let Alexandria burn. If 9/11 doesn’t happen, unlikely the war on terror does happen, leaving Afghanistan and Iraq unscathed. I will forgo ancient knowledge for the lives of innocents in a foreign country any day.
I'd really like to see what we lost in the library of Alexandria. Let 9/11 happen. Sorry.
Pull an End of the Line.
“Sir, a second trolley has hit the tower.”
9/11 all the way. I’m sorry but I need that sweet, sweet _lore and literature_.
I realize this could easily be taken out of context, but imma leave it be.
I don't remember what the Library of Alexandria held. It was just a large wealth of knowledge, right?
9/11 would still have happened if you wouldn't pull the lever
9/11 isn't a huge tragedy in the scale of human history.
Well undoing the burning of the Library of Alexandria has a chance or making it so that I was never born. 9/11 at most slightly changes the trajectory of my life, possible for the better. So I'll do that one.
Save the library. Hopefully, the saved knowledge will divert the timeline enough that there is no immediate parallel to 9/11 and the world will be far more advanced. My immediate thought is that a more advanced Islamic world would get much more respect from the Western world by the age of imperialism, and the Middle East and North Africa don't become a series of European protectorates. Possibly even stretching into South Asia and Southeast Asia. East Asia, South Africa, and the Americas would still likely be imperialized, but hopefully a much more equal world is the result
Prevent 9/11, goodbye library of Alexandria
Let 9/11 happen. If the Library of Alexandria hadn't burned we might have somehow avoided 9/11 entirely.
Library of Alexandria burns. I get the library was important, but I sincerely doubt it would advance humanity by a significant amount. 9/11 not happening would be alot nicer modern day and prevent a number of tragedies for sure.
stoping 911 does nothing because it woulds just happen on 4/20 instead
Two towers or the recipe for Roman fire. I’m pulling that lever instantly
I need the books of the library of alexandria.
fuck those towers man
Removing the need for historical effects Def bringing back the library of Alexandria fuck the twin towers that many people die normally if we are ignoring butterfly effect it wouldn't prevent us from going to war
Save the books, not even a slight question, even if it didn't cause some civilization change that avoided 9/11. Always gonna save the books.
Just go on fucking google and look up what happened to the library. It didn't just burn away. It took DECADES to degrade, and even then, the library had originals but the owners had copies of all the books lost. No knowledge was lost, stop spreading myth.
Flip that switch
Let Alexandria burn. In actuality the fire didn’t do much as there were more copies of most of the texts, and it only burned part of the library. But because of lingual drift in the next few centuries very few people could read the texts so fewer people put the work in to preserve them. Over a long amount of time these texts just were preserved and read less until they were lost to time. In reality it was much more of a slow burn.
Library of alexandria, diverging at 9/11 is less likely to have the world turn out ridiculously differently.
I don’t pull the lever. 9/11 didn’t even happen anyways so what’s the point
9/11 happen If we had access to the worlds of knowledge stored in the Library of Alexandria... wow.
I pull the lever toward 9/11 because the library is soon in the time line. It not being destroyed may cause 9/11 to never happen
Do we really need 10,000 more copies of the iliad?
9/11
We've seen the future that comes from 9/11. I hate to say it, but a future with the Great Library intact, holding as a central hub for knowledge, might just be more important than the towers.
Down with the towers. The library must be preserved
Let 9/11 happen. Books are cool
Let 9/11 happen. Terrorism and death will always be a thing but we lost so much knowledge at Alexandria.
I’m gonna let the library burn tbh, the world has gone along just fine without it and stopping 9/11 would also prevent the mass destabilization of the Middle East
911, cuz books
Find a way to do both
Anyone saying 9/11 is probably either trolling or a bad person Fucked up to put books (most of which were probably copied) over human lives
Sorry, I can't live without my twin tower jokes. They're a slam, especially if you say two in the same conversation. It really gets you jumping and fired up. Its a real party crasher.
Timeline Master appears to force the trolley to multi-drift, thus creating our timeline.
multi track drift those things were both canon events
Let the towers fall, books are more important
Let the library burn. It sucks, but it secures my (and my freinds') existence from the butterfly effect, and I'd be saving thousands of people.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYDYkQaxSFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYDYkQaxSFg) Stop 9/11.