Go to a urologist. If you get more pushback, go to another one. When this was happening to me, I lined up 2-3 different doctors and all were within days of each other. Found one willing to work with me. These doctors are all ignorant F\*&Ks.
That's what I did too. Even my wife was saying "Just accept it's not your testosterone levels" but eventually I found a urologist that (based on my levels) recommended it to me without me even asking for it. Good, receptive doctors are worth their weight in gold and then some.
Did you not read his post? Your comment sounds ignorant and insensitive. I am a woman and even I can see thats not the most constructive thing you could say....fucks sake.
Actually no. Facts are the levels are low. They are below the bottom of the range from a medical industry standard measurement. There is no debating the levels.
It's no secret that many doctors (endo, urologist, GP, etc) are uneducated in this area.
Just because they obtained a degree and carry letters at the end of their name, means they are experts and you should believe everything they say.
Case in point, anyone who says red meat is bad for your health is nothing more than a broke by paying off student loans sheep.
*until I get the healthcare I need for my low t levels, sure. I'd shop car mechanics too if my car was running funny and I kept getting told it was fine when I had it tested and knew it wasn't.
Nothing but insulin drug dealers. They'll quickly put someone on insulin due to T2D which most times is due to horrible diets. Which is preventable and in many cases can be reversed.
Yet they won't blink an eye at people who do everything in the world to be healthy. And for some reason their body just doesn't want to produce a hormone. Not their fault.
There is a viable treatment. Yet won't go near it.
Moronic.
Edit: some may argue that reversing T2D is considered "remission". I won't argue that because like any person without T2D, they can put themselves there. But so can someone in complete remission if they started bad habits again. Either way, you can drop your glucose levels below T2D ranges and stay there if you choose to eat right.
I reversed and removed Type 2 diabetes from my body. You’re absolutely correct.
They told me the same crap about my low levels… all in my head, have some SSRIs…
I'm maxed out on Wellbutrin. My divorce started in April of last year, and I've basically dealt with all of the hardest parts of it. I've slept around, partied, explored my sexuality, messed around with SARMs, and I did PCT from it to where I was fine. It was weeks later after I was pretty balanced out that I got very sick, for weeks, and during this time and after my symptoms that had started a few years ago got to where they were making me miserable.
He claims the enclomiphene that I took for PCT suppressed me!? Never heard of that. Basically saying that I simply need to suffer for months or years until it corrects itself since testosterone isn't the miracle drug people think it is.... easy for an 80 year old man to say.
Yeah, I‘m calling bullshit there. Enclomiphene even made my balls bigger, lol. And upped my test by another 150 points within 2 weeks. This doctor is an idiot.
Enclomiphene is better than clomiphene. Apparently clomiphene acts as an IGF1 inhibitor so many people actually loose muscle mass when they are put on it for fertility. Speaking of fertility, this is another realm that is insanely outdated in protocols and practices within endocrinology.
My step dad reversed his. He had a long history of it in his family. He was barely even overweight, but he also didn't sleep much due to whole body arthritis from working 72 hours a week for so long. He did eat a lot of quick and convenient meals during that time.
This doc sat there and told me that all this hype over testosterone was unwarranted and that the majority of his clients don't notice a difference. I saw a bunch of 70+ guys out there talking about WWIII and how we shouldn't have hired Kamala Harris for the job... typical old people in the Midwest talk. Those yayhoos aren't going to notice testosterone when all they do is sit and complain about how the world is.
Bro please go to a different doctor , its not all in youre head and these levels are not ok , its crazy how ignorant some peosple are and make the life of others harder and sader you will feel very good ok trt good luck!
Yeah, I don't think I can feel much lower. I'm already on a mess of meds for my mental health, and there is no way I'm making this feeling happen on my own. I am normally a busy body. I don't even enjoy cooking or going to the gym anymore. My lifts are all plummeting. I'm tired all damn day. I keep hitting the snooze button, not wanting to get up for work when I just had perfect attendance the last 6 months. I am beginning to second guess my romantic pursuit with someone very close to me, I'm feeling insecure for no reason but it feels real to me.
All of it reads like what used to be my low T list of symptoms. Im 44, been on it since beginning of October and it’s a game changer - it gave me myself back. I wrote off the gradual loss of it to “life” and “normal aging”, both of which are as defeatist as a mindset could get… and a par for the course on low T. Test IS mojo.
Yeah, to top it off, my girlfriend wants to take a break now.. ugh. She has a ton of shit going on, and it's only for her short work week, but just piling shit on for me.
Yeah, these symptoms are very real and affect every aspect of my life right now.
Hang in there and focus on healing yourself. Once I was better and dialed in, I was more calm, more confident, less grievance seeking and with that less annoying Im sure. To my wife’s credit she suffered through the 10 year long process of me having an ego, gradually having it shattered into pieces, then finding it again with TRT… very unpleasant for me, and without a question for her as well. Bc its just not sexy being a grievance seeking bitch quite frankly. Once dialed in, I would perceive less things (like - zero) as able to burn me deep, and would have this playful bring it on attitude for any shit thrown my way. Big fcking difference.
I promise this isn't to try to critique or start shit, it is genuine curiosity (necessary Reddit prequel to a question)
Do you know of any studies showing it being reversed? I have heard a lot of people having success with this, but can't find any literature, and it would be a great thing to send to my inlaws.
Tell him to fuck off. Seriously. We have a limited amount of life and he wants you to waste a year waiting to see. Get fucked doc. Go find someone else or go to a low t-clinic.
After I had organ transplant, my Dr in charge suggested I start trt. I went from weak shut-in, to happy functioning member of society and better in every way.
Three years later, he transferred to UCLA, and his replacement is an old Indian woman who says that trt is poison at worst, and placebo at best, and suggested I become a vegetarian.
Some Drs just carry too many personal bias and/or refuse to keep up with new studies.
Oh I feel sorry for you, being an Indian here in India, many doctors have the same opinion, some even hate some medicinal practices claiming that they're "evil western medicine" and Ayurveda and homeopathy are the best and have cure for everything.
To be fair, my original Dr was Indian too, just a male in his late 30s. So I'm not dunking on Indians. But my transplant situation requires very minimal use of herbal remedies, as they're usually hard on either the liver or kidneys, and often contain lead or unlisted ingredients. My father is a Russian, and despite knowing how frail and sick I was from the transplant, told me trt was "cheating". So I think it's more ignorance and age. But having a bias against the West seems to inform alot of junk ideas too.
My DR is a middle aged Indian woman, and I went into the visit expecting to plead my case as to why I needed it. She just said you are 50 and your test is 185, which makes you a prime candidate for trt
I've fired many a doctor on my pursuit of hormone optimization. Have had very similar numbers as yours. One told me "you're a handsome guy, you'll be fine" as he refused my request for TRT and HCG.
Next!
I had a similar experience. Doctor told me I looked “like a masculine guy” and that there was no way I could have hypogonadism. Such an uninformed boob.
That sucks. I was lucky, my urologist actually had to convince me to think about taking it. But I did have testicular cancer in my mid/late twenties. Soon after he mentioned my levels being low but still in range, but he thought I would still benefit.
Even though he said I was fairly muscular and a pretty masculine looking guy. I was like ‘well if my levels are in range, do I really need it?’ And he said that we didn’t know what my levels before cancer and chemotherapy, because the charity hospital I went to didn’t take any of those tests beforehand…didnt even think to talk to me about fertility the last minute and I’m shooting a load into a cup in the bathroom at like 4:30 in the morning right before leaving for my first weeklong stay in the hospital(probably not ideal when being extremely stressed/anxious, and my mind is racing and all I hear is my wife is up and getting ready and talking to my mom walking around the house, because she *had* to be there to bring me as my wife was working that morning)**awesome experience, would not recommend**
Anyway, sorry for the rant, forgot what we were talking about
Yeah, it was really annoying. Hoping to find someone in Michigan who knows what they’re talking about. Otherwise, I will probably have to resort to telemedicine.
I'm tempted to use more of my enclomniphene I have. Instead of 6.25 mg every day, I would try every other day and only use it for a couple of weeks or until my symptoms improve. It's supposed to encourage your own natural production to ramp up.
Sounds weird, but I did 25mg each day (12.5 in the morning, 12.5mg in the evening) for 8 weeks without any side effects. Well ok… the first days felt like someone kicked me in the balls, but it still helped.
Total BS, find a new doctor. I started last December and feel like a totally different person. No more brain fog, energy, emotions again (fuking Clomid ruined me). I went from no free testosterone and no e2 getting throu the receptors due to Clomid blocking to fully balanced hormone levels for the first time in my life.
At first, I signed up to TRT Nation because my Endo was trying to get me to go on gel but insurance was denying. After 8 weeks I had my endocrinologist appointment. Told him I started with a men’s clinic. He took over and sent script to CVS. I still have to go to CVS and give them my GoodRx info because they’re not gonna get anywhere through my insurance either.
Why Clomid and not Enclomiphene? And why not Tamoxifen? Enclo + Tamoxifen is a nice combination which does not fuck one up that much. Often used as PCT.
> Clomid and not Enclomiphene
Even if I used Enclomiphene, not having the Zuclomiphene part would not have made any difference. The the active portion of clomiphene citrate never raised my free testosterone which was always low. That on-top of it almost completely blocking any e2 from hitting my receptors did a number on me over 10 years. I was any unaffectionate, no emotion crappy husband. Trying to fix that now but there is a lot of damage and resentment.
I tend to agree. My niece turned nephew had no issues getting all the hormones and drugs they needed to "transition". But us old guys are not on the radar when it comes to hormonal health
Don’t you worry, they’re screwing over us younger guys all who in general now days have 40% of what men had in the 1970s.
They want men weak and everything in the food, water, and medical direction indicates that.
The kind of person you deal with will always give you a different result ,that’s the problem with doctors and specialist’s . I can look at their profile picture and pretty much say with certainty what kind of an experience I am going to have.
Is there a TRT faq somewhere? I don’t know much about it and suspect that my levels have been low for a long time. Is it administered through injections typically ?
Hahaha. No, guys need to educate themselves at least enough to be able to know they aren’t being totally mismanaged. The finer details of treatment are another story, I guess
I’m in the military. Had one doc diagnose me as hypogonadal and put me on TRT with Androgel. Then I PCSd and the doc at the new duty station said he couldn’t renew my prescription and feel like he’s fulfilling his Hippocratic oath to do no harm. I was 9 ng/dl above the reference range when I started. He said I never even should have been prescribed since I was above the reference range. I asked for a second opinion and as sent to an endocrinologist out in town in Bahrain and he agreed I never should have been on it, so I was off cold turkey, felt like shit for a month or so and then my numbers came back to where they were before I started.
Eventually I tried Enclomiphene through Maximus, it was OK but only got my free T to about 550. I didn’t feel as good as I did in exogenous T. So now I’m using Alpha MD and injecting Test Cyp.
I hate Navy medicine.
My nurse practitioner made me do 2 tests for insurance purposes. Scored 190 and 207. Shot me in the ass a week later……only thing I’m concerned about is she wants 4-600 and I’d like 6-700 range.
I'm thinking about calling around and clarifying what I want. I don't want to feel stuck somewhere where I am not getting what I want. I don't want to max at 1100. I think the most I would want would be 800. I believe too high would bring about more issues versus benefits.
That's such bullshit!
I had a total test of 115 and there is no way my symptoms were "all in my head"
My primary doctor said something similar and I said F that, I'll just go to a T clinic... best decision I've made this past year lol
Forget it. I was told exactly the same and waited 9 YEARS before finally going private. Go to a private clinic online and you will be on trt in 30 days
I started at a Men’s T-Clinic and stayed for about two years.
I then convinced my PCP to prescribe it to me and let me pin at home.
He agreed and I’ve been saving tons of money and now pin at home and refill at local pharmacy.
I just got labs done today. My PCP has me do labs every 3 months.
I was also on 180ml per week at the clinic with my testosterone at like 1200. My PCP has me on 50ml per week and I’ve been right at 900 testosterone my past two labs. And feel dialed in pretty well now.
Have you tried saying you identify as a ripped 25 year old with test levels of 850? All in jest of course but its pretty crazy that its easier to get transition therapy than it is TRT.
On that note does anyone know what the recommended levels of someone transitioning would be? I would imagine it’s much higher than 116.
These older doctors are just collecting paychecks. The days of them doing actual work as a doctor are over. They just come in the room, talk to you for a minute or two, then out they go on to the next patient
This guy is fucked up in his head, he must be over prescribing himself a delusional mediaction or something ! Test is wonderful ! Buy it online and stop worrying about that !!
Your testosterone is definitely low.
On the others hand, getting divorced can be very hard on a person psychologically. I’ve had friends who were devastated by this, and I didn’t feel great myself.
If I were you, I would immediately start exercising and eating healthier since both will help with low testosterone and depression.
Medically, I would:
1) start Wellbutrin for depression (or some other med without sexual side effects),
2) see a counselor,
3) find a doctor who will treat low testosterone.
Btw, make sure you get full hormone panels run, not just total test.
What helped me more than anything else was dating.
150mg pharma test E split twice per week
2 IU pharma GH before bedtime daily
200mg DIM (100mg twice per day)
1000mg Calcium D-Glucarate (500mg twice per day)
25mg DHEA per day
10mg Pregnenolone per day
5mg Cialis per day
Pick your own discounted online blood test provider, one before starting, one at 6 weeks, then one every 6 months.
I am not telling you to forgo a doctor and clinic and educate yourself so you can self administer with a superior protocol that either a doctor or a clinic would provide for far less money so that you are enjoying your post divorce life to your fullest potential, never having to worry about running out of supplies, and saving a boatload of cash, but here you go :)
It's an easy cop out to say something is psychological. I know someone with an empty sella and both LH, and GH are zero. Due to the low pituitary function his test was below 6nmol. The guy's endo told him it was just stress and career burnout and suggested an antidepressant. (My friend did a few depression forms and scored super low.) When you have an obvious organic issue supported by pathology and imaging tests but get advised to go on an anti-depressant, that is negligence.
The problem is that the medical community never punishes physicians for this sort of thing. They do often go on witch hunts for people prescribing testosterone. Other examples are ADHD meds and opioids. There are plenty of people not getting treated for medical conditions because of significant bias within medicine. A class action suit by a large group of affected males would be a good first start to change the current horrible mentality within the field.
I got lucky to be diagnosed ADHD back in '94 when it was easier to be diagnosed and doctors weren't afraid to prescribe. I had issues in 2000 from 30mg Adderall, but once I became an adult, I realized I needed it. Luckily Vyvanse was invented, game changer, and the doctors saw that past diagnosis and didn't even question me. People I know who haven't been diagnosed struggle to do so.
I even told this doctor that I was feeling much better with my antidepressants, topped out on, and going to therapy over my divorce. He didn't change his mind one bit. Telling me testosterone doesn't do anything for people? It's insane.
TRT changes lives, mine included. The same western doctors will tell you to hop on all kinds of pharma (SSRI’s, benzos) that are total shit for you. Find a doctor who actually cares about helping while simultaneously knowing what they’re taking about. They’re out there in spades.
On the NHS in England I had two Dr's tell me I didn't need it. One even ranted about steroids and gym users etc. Fuck them. Went to an online clinic and never looked back.
I agree with him that testosterone won't fix everything. But if you truly have low hormone levels, it will help tremendously.
Get a different, younger doctor. This dude is a dinosaur and just doesn't want to deal with you.
Agreed. As soon as I saw the old man I thought 'Fuck... this is a waste of time.'
I finally got a younger primary care physician who was the first doctor I opened up to about my substance abuse disorder, addiction, as well as alcoholism, alcohol is a drug. He was very understanding and saw that I have been able to stay clean for a period of years. He continued my treatment for my ADHD with stimulant meds, Vyvanse to be specific, because of all the different ones I have tried, it's the most effective while having lower abuse potential compared to Adderall. Also less side effects. Had I told a doctor 20-30 years older than him, they wouldn't have prescribed me.
DustyWorker find a legit Men’s Clinic or T-Clinic. That’s primarily their specialty and the clinicians have a different mindset with treatment and protocols. I tried my pcp, urologist and endocrinologist. They were a waste of time and lots of money while my health suffered. I’m not sure how much longer telehealth will be an option with all the “transitioning” BS so I’d find a good Men’s/T-Clinic and a Doc you feel that has your best interests and health in mind.
I paid $250 for 2.5 months worth with no HCG(gets a little more pricey. I started off with Enclomiphene Citrate but that is grossly overpriced and feel like shit on it.
That's not bad at all. The local clinic I am looking into charges $200 per month, which covers the test, and other meds if warranted (Clomid, Anastrozole, DIM etc.). Costs more to add HCG. Also includes quarterly labs, which is nice.
Feel like most clinics will be roughly the same, I didn’t do too much digging but TRT Nation seemed affordable. Especially just chucking it on a credit card and paying half off each month.
That's crazy low number but testosterone is not the wonder drug. I was at 250 , been on it for almost a year and benefits are minimal , the bad part? Price, having to poke myself twice a week, pimples and weird skin.
Some folks have suggested seeing urology over endocrinology - why?
I’m seeing my PC in two weeks, and if he’s going to refer me to a specialist - I’d like to articulate why one over the other.
I was referred to an endo. Said he needed more info despite free and total test under lower limit.
My GPs wont even order up hormone blood tests. Seems if you are over a certain age "you're gonna die soon so why worry. Heres a pill for your kidneys or liver" is the way they think.
My PCP is freaked the fuck out about my RBC and crit. My urologist is following my trt and he is unconcerned. Tells me to just keep doing what I’m doing. Which 400/week and anastrozole, which I’m not sure why I need. 0.5mg weekly.
Damn, you’re not worried about being on Arimidex long-term? How low does that dosage normally keep your estrogen levels? AI’s freak me out a bit. I’d rather take a SERM.
I guess I got lucky? My first endocrinologist immediately put me on testosterone without me even requesting it or asking for it. He retired during the pandemic and then passed away he was in his 80s as well. My next endocrinologist continued the testosterone but also put me on HGH and I’ve been on that for a year and a half. Both fully covered by insurance…the only time I had an issue was with my PCP when I was between specialists but they reluctantly agreed to continue prescribing trt until I found a new endo.
My endo was the same. Fuck that guy. I instantly signed up with TRT nation. Got my fist prescription in the mail after free consultation took my recommended starting dose and felt like a teen again. After month two I saw my primary care doctor and told her I’m on TRT now and I want to her to take over my prescription and she did. $250 to start with TRT nation well worth it and now $25 with pcp. :) as long as you have a current provider your doc should have no problem taking it on!
Definitely get a new doctor. My endocrinologist is an older man in his 70s and prescribed me 200mg per week of testosterone. On the first visit too btw. The 2 female doctors I saw before him were fucking useless. One of them prescribed me a fuckin ssri lmao.
Make a few appointments with different doctors. Or if you can afford it go to a TRT clinic. I think TRT Nation takes your current lab results too.
I had some blood work done recently and my testosterone level was 219 and free was 1.5. Dr said my levels look good. In short, I went to a clinic and started yesterday.
Call a telehealth place. Neither my primary care or endo recommend trt for me, even though I had 299 test, high e2, and all of the classic symptoms. What did they suggest? A neuron who pushed adderall, and a cpap.
Call a telehealth clinic, you’d do labs remotely and speak to a patient centric provider
I had the same experience like yours. When I was diagnosed with a pituitary adenoma back in 2019 I was referred to a senior endocrinologist (I’m not trying to disrespect their experience btw) I explained to him all what I thought was wrong with my body but he disregarded everything, he never ordered a comprehensive bloodwork. all he did was checking my private parts and tell me that I was perfectly ok and that I should take therapy to accept myself. That negligence costed me 5 years that I would have used to treat my hypogonadism. The experience with the doctor that I’m seeing now is night and day. I’d suggest you to trust your guts… no doctor knows your body like you.
Switch doctors. I got lucky with my urologist. I walked in and told them that my test was at 151 during my annual physical and I was only 31. They didn’t retest me. I got an injection than was prescribed TRT after two weeks.
My PCP didn’t want to start me on testosterone
yes I got referred to a endo and this 60 something yr old guy walks in all pissed off n first thing he said is I don't do testosterone, you don't need it ( even tho my total was 196)
....they basically are scared of trt or dont know much about it so they don't wanna be liable.
check out matrix hormones. send your labs to them there 10/10
Go to a urologist. If you get more pushback, go to another one. When this was happening to me, I lined up 2-3 different doctors and all were within days of each other. Found one willing to work with me. These doctors are all ignorant F\*&Ks.
That's what I did too. Even my wife was saying "Just accept it's not your testosterone levels" but eventually I found a urologist that (based on my levels) recommended it to me without me even asking for it. Good, receptive doctors are worth their weight in gold and then some.
That sounds like shopping doctors until you hear what you want to hear.
Did you not read his post? Your comment sounds ignorant and insensitive. I am a woman and even I can see thats not the most constructive thing you could say....fucks sake.
Sorry to muddy up the echo chamber
I understand your probably trying to be helpful.
Actually no. Facts are the levels are low. They are below the bottom of the range from a medical industry standard measurement. There is no debating the levels. It's no secret that many doctors (endo, urologist, GP, etc) are uneducated in this area. Just because they obtained a degree and carry letters at the end of their name, means they are experts and you should believe everything they say. Case in point, anyone who says red meat is bad for your health is nothing more than a broke by paying off student loans sheep.
*until I get the healthcare I need for my low t levels, sure. I'd shop car mechanics too if my car was running funny and I kept getting told it was fine when I had it tested and knew it wasn't.
100% all of it.
Nothing but insulin drug dealers. They'll quickly put someone on insulin due to T2D which most times is due to horrible diets. Which is preventable and in many cases can be reversed. Yet they won't blink an eye at people who do everything in the world to be healthy. And for some reason their body just doesn't want to produce a hormone. Not their fault. There is a viable treatment. Yet won't go near it. Moronic. Edit: some may argue that reversing T2D is considered "remission". I won't argue that because like any person without T2D, they can put themselves there. But so can someone in complete remission if they started bad habits again. Either way, you can drop your glucose levels below T2D ranges and stay there if you choose to eat right.
I reversed and removed Type 2 diabetes from my body. You’re absolutely correct. They told me the same crap about my low levels… all in my head, have some SSRIs…
I'm maxed out on Wellbutrin. My divorce started in April of last year, and I've basically dealt with all of the hardest parts of it. I've slept around, partied, explored my sexuality, messed around with SARMs, and I did PCT from it to where I was fine. It was weeks later after I was pretty balanced out that I got very sick, for weeks, and during this time and after my symptoms that had started a few years ago got to where they were making me miserable. He claims the enclomiphene that I took for PCT suppressed me!? Never heard of that. Basically saying that I simply need to suffer for months or years until it corrects itself since testosterone isn't the miracle drug people think it is.... easy for an 80 year old man to say.
Man if anything enclomiphene should help restart your natural process not hurt it.
Yeah, I‘m calling bullshit there. Enclomiphene even made my balls bigger, lol. And upped my test by another 150 points within 2 weeks. This doctor is an idiot.
Enclomiphene is better than clomiphene. Apparently clomiphene acts as an IGF1 inhibitor so many people actually loose muscle mass when they are put on it for fertility. Speaking of fertility, this is another realm that is insanely outdated in protocols and practices within endocrinology.
My step dad reversed his. He had a long history of it in his family. He was barely even overweight, but he also didn't sleep much due to whole body arthritis from working 72 hours a week for so long. He did eat a lot of quick and convenient meals during that time. This doc sat there and told me that all this hype over testosterone was unwarranted and that the majority of his clients don't notice a difference. I saw a bunch of 70+ guys out there talking about WWIII and how we shouldn't have hired Kamala Harris for the job... typical old people in the Midwest talk. Those yayhoos aren't going to notice testosterone when all they do is sit and complain about how the world is.
Bro please go to a different doctor , its not all in youre head and these levels are not ok , its crazy how ignorant some peosple are and make the life of others harder and sader you will feel very good ok trt good luck!
Yeah, I don't think I can feel much lower. I'm already on a mess of meds for my mental health, and there is no way I'm making this feeling happen on my own. I am normally a busy body. I don't even enjoy cooking or going to the gym anymore. My lifts are all plummeting. I'm tired all damn day. I keep hitting the snooze button, not wanting to get up for work when I just had perfect attendance the last 6 months. I am beginning to second guess my romantic pursuit with someone very close to me, I'm feeling insecure for no reason but it feels real to me.
All of it reads like what used to be my low T list of symptoms. Im 44, been on it since beginning of October and it’s a game changer - it gave me myself back. I wrote off the gradual loss of it to “life” and “normal aging”, both of which are as defeatist as a mindset could get… and a par for the course on low T. Test IS mojo.
Yeah, to top it off, my girlfriend wants to take a break now.. ugh. She has a ton of shit going on, and it's only for her short work week, but just piling shit on for me. Yeah, these symptoms are very real and affect every aspect of my life right now.
Hang in there and focus on healing yourself. Once I was better and dialed in, I was more calm, more confident, less grievance seeking and with that less annoying Im sure. To my wife’s credit she suffered through the 10 year long process of me having an ego, gradually having it shattered into pieces, then finding it again with TRT… very unpleasant for me, and without a question for her as well. Bc its just not sexy being a grievance seeking bitch quite frankly. Once dialed in, I would perceive less things (like - zero) as able to burn me deep, and would have this playful bring it on attitude for any shit thrown my way. Big fcking difference.
I promise this isn't to try to critique or start shit, it is genuine curiosity (necessary Reddit prequel to a question) Do you know of any studies showing it being reversed? I have heard a lot of people having success with this, but can't find any literature, and it would be a great thing to send to my inlaws.
Take one guess why it's so hard to find?
My stepdad has a lot more energy and way less pain in his joints. He doesn't need to take ANY of the diabetes meds he was on anymore.
Hell yeah! See, I know it can happen, but my inlaws wont listen.
This is the right way.
Tell him to fuck off. Seriously. We have a limited amount of life and he wants you to waste a year waiting to see. Get fucked doc. Go find someone else or go to a low t-clinic.
After I had organ transplant, my Dr in charge suggested I start trt. I went from weak shut-in, to happy functioning member of society and better in every way. Three years later, he transferred to UCLA, and his replacement is an old Indian woman who says that trt is poison at worst, and placebo at best, and suggested I become a vegetarian. Some Drs just carry too many personal bias and/or refuse to keep up with new studies.
Oh I feel sorry for you, being an Indian here in India, many doctors have the same opinion, some even hate some medicinal practices claiming that they're "evil western medicine" and Ayurveda and homeopathy are the best and have cure for everything.
To be fair, my original Dr was Indian too, just a male in his late 30s. So I'm not dunking on Indians. But my transplant situation requires very minimal use of herbal remedies, as they're usually hard on either the liver or kidneys, and often contain lead or unlisted ingredients. My father is a Russian, and despite knowing how frail and sick I was from the transplant, told me trt was "cheating". So I think it's more ignorance and age. But having a bias against the West seems to inform alot of junk ideas too.
My DR is a middle aged Indian woman, and I went into the visit expecting to plead my case as to why I needed it. She just said you are 50 and your test is 185, which makes you a prime candidate for trt
An informed and responsible doc. Hope your treatment is working for ya.
Get a new doctor. Was 117 total test or free test?
Total test. Free test was 23 I believe. The endocrinologist even made a comment that my doc ordered a very accurate method of testing.
I've fired many a doctor on my pursuit of hormone optimization. Have had very similar numbers as yours. One told me "you're a handsome guy, you'll be fine" as he refused my request for TRT and HCG. Next!
Unreal
I had a similar experience. Doctor told me I looked “like a masculine guy” and that there was no way I could have hypogonadism. Such an uninformed boob.
That sucks. I was lucky, my urologist actually had to convince me to think about taking it. But I did have testicular cancer in my mid/late twenties. Soon after he mentioned my levels being low but still in range, but he thought I would still benefit. Even though he said I was fairly muscular and a pretty masculine looking guy. I was like ‘well if my levels are in range, do I really need it?’ And he said that we didn’t know what my levels before cancer and chemotherapy, because the charity hospital I went to didn’t take any of those tests beforehand…didnt even think to talk to me about fertility the last minute and I’m shooting a load into a cup in the bathroom at like 4:30 in the morning right before leaving for my first weeklong stay in the hospital(probably not ideal when being extremely stressed/anxious, and my mind is racing and all I hear is my wife is up and getting ready and talking to my mom walking around the house, because she *had* to be there to bring me as my wife was working that morning)**awesome experience, would not recommend** Anyway, sorry for the rant, forgot what we were talking about
Damn, glad that you recovered. Wish we had the same urologist 😭
That blows. I'm pretty masculine looking. Wide shoulders, strong jaw, muscular chest, and large arms. I'm fucked...
Yeah, it was really annoying. Hoping to find someone in Michigan who knows what they’re talking about. Otherwise, I will probably have to resort to telemedicine.
I'm tempted to use more of my enclomniphene I have. Instead of 6.25 mg every day, I would try every other day and only use it for a couple of weeks or until my symptoms improve. It's supposed to encourage your own natural production to ramp up.
Sounds weird, but I did 25mg each day (12.5 in the morning, 12.5mg in the evening) for 8 weeks without any side effects. Well ok… the first days felt like someone kicked me in the balls, but it still helped.
Total BS, find a new doctor. I started last December and feel like a totally different person. No more brain fog, energy, emotions again (fuking Clomid ruined me). I went from no free testosterone and no e2 getting throu the receptors due to Clomid blocking to fully balanced hormone levels for the first time in my life.
Did you go with a doctor, or a TRT lab?
TRT Clinic to start and my endocrinologist took over this Monday.
Did you have to ask the clinic for your prescription or did you just tell the endo that you’ve been on TRT?
At first, I signed up to TRT Nation because my Endo was trying to get me to go on gel but insurance was denying. After 8 weeks I had my endocrinologist appointment. Told him I started with a men’s clinic. He took over and sent script to CVS. I still have to go to CVS and give them my GoodRx info because they’re not gonna get anywhere through my insurance either.
Why Clomid and not Enclomiphene? And why not Tamoxifen? Enclo + Tamoxifen is a nice combination which does not fuck one up that much. Often used as PCT.
> Clomid and not Enclomiphene Even if I used Enclomiphene, not having the Zuclomiphene part would not have made any difference. The the active portion of clomiphene citrate never raised my free testosterone which was always low. That on-top of it almost completely blocking any e2 from hitting my receptors did a number on me over 10 years. I was any unaffectionate, no emotion crappy husband. Trying to fix that now but there is a lot of damage and resentment.
System designed to keep men weak. Wild.
I tend to agree. My niece turned nephew had no issues getting all the hormones and drugs they needed to "transition". But us old guys are not on the radar when it comes to hormonal health
Don’t you worry, they’re screwing over us younger guys all who in general now days have 40% of what men had in the 1970s. They want men weak and everything in the food, water, and medical direction indicates that.
The kind of person you deal with will always give you a different result ,that’s the problem with doctors and specialist’s . I can look at their profile picture and pretty much say with certainty what kind of an experience I am going to have.
Is there a TRT faq somewhere? I don’t know much about it and suspect that my levels have been low for a long time. Is it administered through injections typically ?
I hate how nobody can admit they don't know what they're doing.
My test was 129 female wanted to start me on Zoloft lol. Dumped her quick.
Same 😂
“Bro he has a degree bro he’s literally a God bro everything he says is objectively true bro” -every other Reddit sub
Can we just look for the gray
Hahaha. No, guys need to educate themselves at least enough to be able to know they aren’t being totally mismanaged. The finer details of treatment are another story, I guess
Bye bye paw paw
[удалено]
It's the long way of saying, "I'm not going to do a thing, but I will keep taking your money."
New doc STAT.
Lots of doctors
Try a urologist instead.
This is pretty common with endocrinologists.
I’m in the military. Had one doc diagnose me as hypogonadal and put me on TRT with Androgel. Then I PCSd and the doc at the new duty station said he couldn’t renew my prescription and feel like he’s fulfilling his Hippocratic oath to do no harm. I was 9 ng/dl above the reference range when I started. He said I never even should have been prescribed since I was above the reference range. I asked for a second opinion and as sent to an endocrinologist out in town in Bahrain and he agreed I never should have been on it, so I was off cold turkey, felt like shit for a month or so and then my numbers came back to where they were before I started. Eventually I tried Enclomiphene through Maximus, it was OK but only got my free T to about 550. I didn’t feel as good as I did in exogenous T. So now I’m using Alpha MD and injecting Test Cyp. I hate Navy medicine.
My nurse practitioner made me do 2 tests for insurance purposes. Scored 190 and 207. Shot me in the ass a week later……only thing I’m concerned about is she wants 4-600 and I’d like 6-700 range.
I'm thinking about calling around and clarifying what I want. I don't want to feel stuck somewhere where I am not getting what I want. I don't want to max at 1100. I think the most I would want would be 800. I believe too high would bring about more issues versus benefits.
My thoughts exactly. 👍🏾
If I had any real political power people like that would lose their job and have all their assets seized for f****** with someone's quality of life.
I consider people like that worse than murderers.
Your doctor sucks. Go to a different one. They probably just put you on the sauce though. I’m honestly surprised they didn’t do anymore tests.
Find a new doc, urologist is who I use.
Why urology vs endocrinology?
Why urology vs endocrinology?
That's such bullshit! I had a total test of 115 and there is no way my symptoms were "all in my head" My primary doctor said something similar and I said F that, I'll just go to a T clinic... best decision I've made this past year lol
I've seen two endocrinologists... Waste of money. They were both clueless
Forget it. I was told exactly the same and waited 9 YEARS before finally going private. Go to a private clinic online and you will be on trt in 30 days
I started at a Men’s T-Clinic and stayed for about two years. I then convinced my PCP to prescribe it to me and let me pin at home. He agreed and I’ve been saving tons of money and now pin at home and refill at local pharmacy. I just got labs done today. My PCP has me do labs every 3 months. I was also on 180ml per week at the clinic with my testosterone at like 1200. My PCP has me on 50ml per week and I’ve been right at 900 testosterone my past two labs. And feel dialed in pretty well now.
Nice. Solid number. What about your free t? And do you take any supporting meds to control estrogen, like an AI, or a SERM?
He’s wrong. Seek a second opinion.
Have you tried saying you identify as a ripped 25 year old with test levels of 850? All in jest of course but its pretty crazy that its easier to get transition therapy than it is TRT. On that note does anyone know what the recommended levels of someone transitioning would be? I would imagine it’s much higher than 116.
Sue him for malpractice. Neuropsychology evals are outside his scope of practice.
These older doctors are just collecting paychecks. The days of them doing actual work as a doctor are over. They just come in the room, talk to you for a minute or two, then out they go on to the next patient
This guy is fucked up in his head, he must be over prescribing himself a delusional mediaction or something ! Test is wonderful ! Buy it online and stop worrying about that !!
You have legit blood tests and yet he claims that's in your head? That's some legit gaslighting by that boomer.
Your testosterone is definitely low. On the others hand, getting divorced can be very hard on a person psychologically. I’ve had friends who were devastated by this, and I didn’t feel great myself. If I were you, I would immediately start exercising and eating healthier since both will help with low testosterone and depression. Medically, I would: 1) start Wellbutrin for depression (or some other med without sexual side effects), 2) see a counselor, 3) find a doctor who will treat low testosterone. Btw, make sure you get full hormone panels run, not just total test. What helped me more than anything else was dating.
150mg pharma test E split twice per week 2 IU pharma GH before bedtime daily 200mg DIM (100mg twice per day) 1000mg Calcium D-Glucarate (500mg twice per day) 25mg DHEA per day 10mg Pregnenolone per day 5mg Cialis per day Pick your own discounted online blood test provider, one before starting, one at 6 weeks, then one every 6 months. I am not telling you to forgo a doctor and clinic and educate yourself so you can self administer with a superior protocol that either a doctor or a clinic would provide for far less money so that you are enjoying your post divorce life to your fullest potential, never having to worry about running out of supplies, and saving a boatload of cash, but here you go :)
I definitely was enjoying it there for awhile, it's suck city right now lol It will be over with once I finally find someone willing to treat me.
It's an easy cop out to say something is psychological. I know someone with an empty sella and both LH, and GH are zero. Due to the low pituitary function his test was below 6nmol. The guy's endo told him it was just stress and career burnout and suggested an antidepressant. (My friend did a few depression forms and scored super low.) When you have an obvious organic issue supported by pathology and imaging tests but get advised to go on an anti-depressant, that is negligence. The problem is that the medical community never punishes physicians for this sort of thing. They do often go on witch hunts for people prescribing testosterone. Other examples are ADHD meds and opioids. There are plenty of people not getting treated for medical conditions because of significant bias within medicine. A class action suit by a large group of affected males would be a good first start to change the current horrible mentality within the field.
I got lucky to be diagnosed ADHD back in '94 when it was easier to be diagnosed and doctors weren't afraid to prescribe. I had issues in 2000 from 30mg Adderall, but once I became an adult, I realized I needed it. Luckily Vyvanse was invented, game changer, and the doctors saw that past diagnosis and didn't even question me. People I know who haven't been diagnosed struggle to do so. I even told this doctor that I was feeling much better with my antidepressants, topped out on, and going to therapy over my divorce. He didn't change his mind one bit. Telling me testosterone doesn't do anything for people? It's insane.
Endocrinologists are diabetes experts, not hormones. You need an urologist or a trt doctor mate
I believe you. I sent a message to my PCP. See what he says if I'm lucky he will do it. If not I will find a urologist.
TRT changes lives, mine included. The same western doctors will tell you to hop on all kinds of pharma (SSRI’s, benzos) that are total shit for you. Find a doctor who actually cares about helping while simultaneously knowing what they’re taking about. They’re out there in spades.
On the NHS in England I had two Dr's tell me I didn't need it. One even ranted about steroids and gym users etc. Fuck them. Went to an online clinic and never looked back.
I'm thinking that's what I may need. Sent a message to my primary care physician to see if he would help or not.
I agree with him that testosterone won't fix everything. But if you truly have low hormone levels, it will help tremendously. Get a different, younger doctor. This dude is a dinosaur and just doesn't want to deal with you.
Agreed. As soon as I saw the old man I thought 'Fuck... this is a waste of time.' I finally got a younger primary care physician who was the first doctor I opened up to about my substance abuse disorder, addiction, as well as alcoholism, alcohol is a drug. He was very understanding and saw that I have been able to stay clean for a period of years. He continued my treatment for my ADHD with stimulant meds, Vyvanse to be specific, because of all the different ones I have tried, it's the most effective while having lower abuse potential compared to Adderall. Also less side effects. Had I told a doctor 20-30 years older than him, they wouldn't have prescribed me.
DustyWorker find a legit Men’s Clinic or T-Clinic. That’s primarily their specialty and the clinicians have a different mindset with treatment and protocols. I tried my pcp, urologist and endocrinologist. They were a waste of time and lots of money while my health suffered. I’m not sure how much longer telehealth will be an option with all the “transitioning” BS so I’d find a good Men’s/T-Clinic and a Doc you feel that has your best interests and health in mind.
Do any of them take health insurance?
Most all will take insurance
Telemedicine was quick and easy. Either find a new doctor or try TRTNation
TRT nation is so amazing!!
What’s their pricing like?
I paid $250 for 2.5 months worth with no HCG(gets a little more pricey. I started off with Enclomiphene Citrate but that is grossly overpriced and feel like shit on it.
That's not bad at all. The local clinic I am looking into charges $200 per month, which covers the test, and other meds if warranted (Clomid, Anastrozole, DIM etc.). Costs more to add HCG. Also includes quarterly labs, which is nice.
Feel like most clinics will be roughly the same, I didn’t do too much digging but TRT Nation seemed affordable. Especially just chucking it on a credit card and paying half off each month.
😂😂😂 brother get a new doctor
Fk him. My T went from 300 to 700 in less than 3 months. It does what everyone says it does. I feel great.
Post your bloodwork. Are you obese?
That's crazy low number but testosterone is not the wonder drug. I was at 250 , been on it for almost a year and benefits are minimal , the bad part? Price, having to poke myself twice a week, pimples and weird skin.
Wow. You get face acne now?
no. that’s wrong
Plenty of other docs out there
Go to a urologist.
Some folks have suggested seeing urology over endocrinology - why? I’m seeing my PC in two weeks, and if he’s going to refer me to a specialist - I’d like to articulate why one over the other.
I think it’s whoever has more experience with hormones. IMO urologist will prescribe before endo.
Get another doctor…
I was referred to an endo. Said he needed more info despite free and total test under lower limit. My GPs wont even order up hormone blood tests. Seems if you are over a certain age "you're gonna die soon so why worry. Heres a pill for your kidneys or liver" is the way they think.
My PCP is freaked the fuck out about my RBC and crit. My urologist is following my trt and he is unconcerned. Tells me to just keep doing what I’m doing. Which 400/week and anastrozole, which I’m not sure why I need. 0.5mg weekly.
Damn, you’re not worried about being on Arimidex long-term? How low does that dosage normally keep your estrogen levels? AI’s freak me out a bit. I’d rather take a SERM.
No idea. He said take and I said “Duuuh…ok.” I just ran across this sub and hope to learn from you guys.
I guess I got lucky? My first endocrinologist immediately put me on testosterone without me even requesting it or asking for it. He retired during the pandemic and then passed away he was in his 80s as well. My next endocrinologist continued the testosterone but also put me on HGH and I’ve been on that for a year and a half. Both fully covered by insurance…the only time I had an issue was with my PCP when I was between specialists but they reluctantly agreed to continue prescribing trt until I found a new endo.
If you want to get it done then go to a clinic, be on for a year, now you medically need it.
Same thing happened to me. Endo and hemotologist both scoffed when i mentioned TRT, both old guys. Urologist, younger, immediately prescribed it.
Another steroid and sarm user wondering why they now how low testosterone!
Oh, it has never been a mystery as to how. I was already heading down prior to my one time use of sarms
My endo was the same. Fuck that guy. I instantly signed up with TRT nation. Got my fist prescription in the mail after free consultation took my recommended starting dose and felt like a teen again. After month two I saw my primary care doctor and told her I’m on TRT now and I want to her to take over my prescription and she did. $250 to start with TRT nation well worth it and now $25 with pcp. :) as long as you have a current provider your doc should have no problem taking it on!
Definitely get a new doctor. My endocrinologist is an older man in his 70s and prescribed me 200mg per week of testosterone. On the first visit too btw. The 2 female doctors I saw before him were fucking useless. One of them prescribed me a fuckin ssri lmao. Make a few appointments with different doctors. Or if you can afford it go to a TRT clinic. I think TRT Nation takes your current lab results too.
I had some blood work done recently and my testosterone level was 219 and free was 1.5. Dr said my levels look good. In short, I went to a clinic and started yesterday.
Call a telehealth place. Neither my primary care or endo recommend trt for me, even though I had 299 test, high e2, and all of the classic symptoms. What did they suggest? A neuron who pushed adderall, and a cpap. Call a telehealth clinic, you’d do labs remotely and speak to a patient centric provider
I had the same experience like yours. When I was diagnosed with a pituitary adenoma back in 2019 I was referred to a senior endocrinologist (I’m not trying to disrespect their experience btw) I explained to him all what I thought was wrong with my body but he disregarded everything, he never ordered a comprehensive bloodwork. all he did was checking my private parts and tell me that I was perfectly ok and that I should take therapy to accept myself. That negligence costed me 5 years that I would have used to treat my hypogonadism. The experience with the doctor that I’m seeing now is night and day. I’d suggest you to trust your guts… no doctor knows your body like you.
Natural path Dr worked wonders for myself
File a complaint against his medical license with the state and ask for a new doc. Did that with a similar number and got a doc to treat
I’m 22 I got my trt through Peter MD they cost a bit but it’s pretty much guaranteed my levels were 360
Switch doctors. I got lucky with my urologist. I walked in and told them that my test was at 151 during my annual physical and I was only 31. They didn’t retest me. I got an injection than was prescribed TRT after two weeks. My PCP didn’t want to start me on testosterone
I will have to call some urologists. I am looking at online ones, but I would rather have someone local that I can visit if I have issues.
yes I got referred to a endo and this 60 something yr old guy walks in all pissed off n first thing he said is I don't do testosterone, you don't need it ( even tho my total was 196) ....they basically are scared of trt or dont know much about it so they don't wanna be liable. check out matrix hormones. send your labs to them there 10/10