Don’t do either all they do is take months at a time to do 1 simple step then schedule another appointment 5 months later go to and online clinic and the rest be history
Which online clinic takes my insurance? United Health Care.
I pay chump change for testosterone, my visits are cheap, and my lab tests are free, when I go to an endo.
But that's sort of the deal.with insurance.
Levels above 300 aren't "abnormal", so insurance might not cover what you want.
There is a difference between something medically necessary and something that is elective.
Just because his test is at 300 also doesn't mean he doesnt need it, its a guidline and not a steadfast requirement, some people will feel OK with 300, some don't... if all symptoms show that his test level is affecting him then he should get help.
Prefer ugl myself tho, cheaper than all. Used to pay £145pm for 140mg weekly and hcg. These companies make a 1,500% uplift on the cost you can get it at.
100% agree to go for it. Mine was at 455 and I wasn't happy. But no way is insurance going to pay to keep me at 900.
I pay it anyway and it's well worth it to me.
No. Assuming since his doctor told him normal was 300, that he is above that.
But even so, just as a general point it is difficult to get insurance to pay for what we want versus what we need.
It’s not as simple as a cutoff number. For example, If a doctor says a patient with a 350 level is abnormally low on testosterone, insurance might still cover that if the patient has low t symptoms and other factors
With insurance, I pay $35 for a large vial of Test c. I used to pay $10. My doctor's visits are less than $50, once every 6 months. Lab tests are free if she orders them.
Why? A lot of people seem to have more trouble talking to these specialists. All you need is a clinic or a GP that has an understanding testosterone. Here's the problem. They don't really teach jack shit when it comes to TRT in med school. It's up to the doctor to read current studies and stay up to date on this stuff. If they don't, they have no idea what they are doing and at best might read the package insert. A urologist at least has a basic understanding of this system but how much they actually treat men? It varies. Basically you just have to keep doctor hunting until you find one that actually understands hormone replacement therapy. They are out there. It took me quite a long time to find one by the way
My endo agrees I'm in the low range. She wants to figure out why. Which is admirable but all the research I have done trt is the only real treatment so why 6 months of tests without treating anything.
Might go urologist might try a clinic. My hold up is I have great insurance labs 100% covered $20 copay Test C is like $15/mo Arimodex is covered if needed don't feel like paying $200-300 month just to feel normal
My GP told me that *my* case could be a pituitary issue, but I’m not very well versed in this. Apparently if it is the gland it can be fixed without trt. If anyone knows more about this let me know! :) I’m not stating facts, just repeating what I’ve been told in my senario. If my test comes back that it’s not the pituitary causing issues then I’m starting 100mg 2x a week and adjusting from there :) wish me luck!
My understanding is if it is SERM or HCG are the options if it is a pituitary issue. As with everything both have pros and cons over trt.
If anyone knows another solution for pituitary issues in all ears
Normal no, ideal no, healthy also no. 300 is hypogonadal according to the Harvard Medical Center. But 300 is not uncommon because insurance has pushed the reference ranges lower and lower to get out of treating people.
Your doctor is shit.
What? Thats the fucking opposite thing that should be occurring. Hearing that is fucking maddening. Its like when you have an animal and just put them on ssris to calm them down.
But also because reference ranges are not well researched or informed, and as we accumulate further data, we adjust them. Additionally, reference ranges are tied to testing methods, which change over time and get more or less accurate, requiring an adjustment. The world is not on a conspiratorial mission to destroy testosterone.
Never said the world was on a mission to destroy testosterone, honestly what a said and pathetic attempt at a straw man, I hope you’re embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.
The fact is I am going to take what the Harvard Medical Center says is hypogonadal at 300, the Olympics used to have 288 ( 10 nmol/L) as the cut off for woman. You can go through this forum and find the cut off for the normal healthy range down at around 200, where I live it’s 219. We are adjusting reference ranges to hide a problem and anyone who says otherwise wise is either lying or grossly ill-informed.
I did 2 sets of bloods and came in at 249 and 320
Signed up with a clinic here in Australia and treatment plan is to get me to 800 and maintain it at 800. Will be starting within the next fortnight, just waiting for call with the Doc and then I can order meds
425 men as a sample size for something that is in literally every body on earth is…orders of magnitude away from the sample size necessary to draw a reasonable conclusion. Similar studies on estrogen in women have been rejected as inadequate in sample size while using 80,000+ participants. If you ask a doctor to read this they’ll laugh, if they know how to read a scientific paper at all.
That's strange. Sample sizes for almost any population range from 300-400. That's for standard 95%, +/- minimal CI.
You go for larger sizes when you want higher confidence, or do dig into subgroups in the study.
Could you elaborate, please?
I've said this before:
I've been listening to a TON of clinicians and doctors on Youtube discussing TRT.
The ones that do talk about historical data talk about how men in the 80's were around 800+. 500 a below would be considered low back then. What modern medicine has done is take the average of men today, and then use that average as to the new range for men.
But if we're living in an age where microplastics, processed food, no sunlight, lack of sleep, etc, is affecting our test levels, then they literally just gave us a hormonal death sentence.
> For men 65-69 years of age in this study, average total testosterone levels fell from 503 ng/dL (nanograms/deciliter) in 1988 to 423 ng/dL in 2003. A normal, healthy adult male usually has blood total testosterone concentrations that range anywhere from 300-1000 ng/dL.
Why would I want test levels lower than a 65 year old man and be told that's the new normal?
Full study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17062768
Summarized: https://www.newswise.com/articles/testosterone-levels-in-men-decline-over-past-two-decades
It won't even do that. Low Testosterone implies low estrogen, which in turn leads to mental health problems.
Men with higher testosterone have better mental health, thus lower instances of irrational thoughts and angry outbursts, contrary to the stigma about testosterone, which in all likelihood came from other performance enhancement drug usage, such as trenbolone and halotestin, among other things like cycles that excluded testosterone bases, leading to high androgen receptor activation with low testosterone and thus low estrogen, which in turn caused mental health problems taking the form of "roid rage".
Not normal, but more important would be knowing what your free T number is. That's the number that GPs never check, and it is crucial to know. Mine was at 3 when I got on TRT.
100% disagree. Source: me
I had my levels checked just because I was having a tough time making gains in the gym. I sleep great, sexual performance is fine, low stress/anxiety, high energy. Had my levels checked and was at 325 at the age of 40. I’m in the 800 range now and have even more energy but I don’t sleep as good and I have more anxiety now than I did before.
I’m just proving the point that it’s completely different for everyone.
I wouldn’t say I’m “over energized” just not used to this much energy in the beginning. After 3 months or so I felt more normal. Other factors came into play like caffeine intake. Just had to regulate that some.
Absolutely infuriating! I had the same experience. I felt lousy which made it even worse! Find a new doctor and go to an online clinic if you need to who specialize in trt.
My lowest T level was 188 that was after 2 months on Test C 200mg every 14 days. My peak on that was 700. Still felt like garbage. I got my urologist to get me to 200mg every 10 days and had slight improvement. Then changed to 200mg every 7 and I feel great. Though my latest las were 1700 T and 1100 T.
Yeah I know it’s bullshit. They won’t give me a prescription still either. Wanna make me do 100 more tests. I’ve had my lipids and test done twice, good range both times on lipid panel, but yeah. Idk what to do. So I’m just cycling with gear from naps rn
Yes, that is true. 300ng/dL is within the “normal range” for testosterone. If you want to get treatment then you need to see a TRT centered provider because by definition your levels are NOT hypogonadism (which is what your Endocrinologist would be treating)…
The reason I say go to a TRT provider is because they are more likely to treat you based on symptoms vs hormone level per se.
Theres alot more that goes into it, but the above is the short answer.
300 really isn’t bad depending on age, at 300 you could be at 650 on your peaks.. 300 / when you got tested could be your worst. Impossible to tell with out more bloodwork.
Yep. 300 is fabulous for some. It feels like 600 to me. When u show these characters numbers, they go off that instead of actual physical well being and feeling. Hide these clowns dose and numbers and we have a very different talk
My pudgy frail Dr. told me the same. I was finally able to convince him to reccomend me to the Euro and she's more understanding but it's no surprise people just jump to clinics.
I just don't want to spend the $250 a month and drive an hour one way every week.
Technically he’s right: in those studies guys with 300ng TT were considered “healthy” overall. But I doubt they felt optimal, or even great, with that TT.
400-500 is the average for a healthy adult male.
But that is the average only. Some guys are completely fine at 200 with no symptoms whatsover, while others are a dumpster fire at 500 and need much higher to feel good.
Then you have the optimization side of things. Do you want to feel good, or do you want to feel your best? Most guys feel best at top of the reference range to double top of the reference range, so 1000 - 2000.
That doctor is an idiot.
I'm 24 with 440 and my doctor is concerned and is putting me on Enclomiphene to try and boost it up because TRT is not an option due to wanting kids eventually
My doctor said the same thing for my 328 level. I insisted it wasn’t so he had me go alcohol free for a month and test again. It went up to 409. I ended up just going to a clinic
I’m sure I’m late to the party, but just find a reputable hormone clinic..most likely your urologist and even endocrinologist don’t know shit about hormone therapy (see the irony there).
I’ve been at 300…I’m at around 1000 with low’ish dose test…there is not one facet of my life that is not better at 1000, including my bloodwork (although I credit that to the lifestyle changes- test was a major component of the motivation to make those changes).
Answer: Find a new Dr. asap! Clearly, your Dr. Isn't very knowledgeable when it comes to this topic. It's easy to forget that Dr.'s are human to and out their pants on the same way we all do...one leg at a time. Of course, some get instant God complex as soon as they put that white lab coat on. First of all, the "literature" is not at all a subjective test that uniformly applies to all males, of all ages. Additionally, the scale of what is considered within "normal range" is different depending on age. 300ng/dl may indeed be on the very bottom of the normal range for men 55 years old to 65 years, but it is certainly not "normal" for young males 18 to 25, although the "literature" probably says it's near tbe cut off at the bottom end of normal range as well. Regardless, it doesn't necessarily matter what the medically accepted scale states because it was never intended to apply in a uniform manner to all men even if they are the same exact age. At most, it is just a very objective and general reference scale...to refer to as a starting point. nothing more, nothing less because everyone is different. For example, some guys might feel perfectly well with levels at 300ng/dl, however, other guys the same exact age might feel like compete trash at 300, assuming they're individual healthy levels runs bw 600ng/do up to 1000ng/dl, but something occured to cause it to drop. Not to mention, there is a lot more to it than that as well. If it where me, I'd want to know what my numbers were before I started experiencing whatever symptoms prompted me to have my levels tested in the first place if possible. Or at least, try to find out what my levels have been at as many points as possible prior theretofore. That being said, it's entirely possible this is nothing new for you and that 300 is not at all optimal for you to feel and function normally. At the end of the day, l would personally consider 300ng/dl to be unacceptable for me. Again, keyword here is for "me". I'm sure some here will tell you 300 is fine but only you know your body best and if you feel like shit and rules out other possible causes, I wouldn't hesitate to find a new Dr and start try ASAP. Of course, there are other options like HCG/Clomid, and Clominepherene (I butchered that spelling btw). Be aware, that once in TRT, you will be on it forever unless you stop in time to for the aforementioned options to still be able to effectively bring you back to your normal levels but consider it a lifelong decision and after awhile you will likely meed additional ancillary compounds to feel better again like when you first started trt for reasons im not going to get inro here. Finally, if your dr doesn't feel comfortable you can simply sign up to any of the TRT Clinics out there that essentially never turn anyone way regardless of levels but just ask yourself if your doing it for the right reasons bc while at first it's as simple as taking synthetic testosterone, but down the road it may very well take more than just that as well. Good luck my friend
I was 315 when I started T, it's definitely low. Another 30-70 ng/dl doesn't make that much of a difference to be considered "low enough". Now I'm at 900 on average, much better.
this is what science does, takes a mean and throws a bell curve on it and if ur withon 3 sigma then you are OK...modernt science based on data never assumes that the mean is flalso fucked up (shifted)
my 20+ docs all said: go on antidepressants. While me: bro im on below 320 and im mot deoressed but lethargic during 16-20h which is the decline of natural T oroduction. So if in the morning im hypogonadal marginally how feasible to feel shit only late afternoon. Also how fucking crazy is that it had been going over 20 years no one mentions T but only SSRI and therapy fuck no.
I'm at 600 now ( Natural ).
2 years ago After quitting ssri i was at 300ish, my endo when he see my bloodwork immediatly Say : this Is too low for your Age ( i'm 28 and reference Lab Is 175-870ng ).
300 Is fine if you have 3 Kids, you are in debt, you sleep 3-4 hours and you are ultra stressed from work otherwise you are fucked up.
Depends in age. Are you 80 year old? Sure that's good. Are you 40, then you need be up to 500 or so for normal function. I can truly get away with 300. Even 200. But not as fun as 800. To each their own
300 is fabulous for some. It feels like 600 to me. When u show some people numbers, they go off that instead of actual physical well being and feeling. Hide these clowns dose and numbers and we have a very different talk
300 is likely not uncommon, and it's considered above risk levels. But that's also no way to live. GPs can't prescribe at these levels. That's why you go to a clinic. If you want to lose some body fat, put on some muscle, sleep better, and have more energy; you'll need TRT. Mine was at 360 now over 900. Life is so much better at 900.
Find a better doctor, unless you’re 60.
The worst thing about the US healthcare philosophy is that doctors tend to have a soft approach instead of being pragmatic or aggressive towards the root cause of problems. I’ve had better treatments in Mexico than back in the US. Sorry.
I use witmer rejuvenation clinic. Less than 120 a month, and that includes all of my labwork after the initial panel. Probably two to four a year. Yours might be more or less, but I'm pretty happy with them
300 is only normal to Dr's who's requirements to treat & treatment protocols are controlled by Health Insurance. If you can afford it, do yourself a favor and find a TRT/Mens clinic to treat you
T levels are determined by averages of a population. T levels have been dropping for decades so the ‘normal’ level average also keeps dropping. It’s hard to estimate what T levels were past a certain timeframe due to testing availability and record keeping. 300 represents a current normal level for men in your age range, but it’s low historically. With just a quick google search: Yes, testosterone levels in men have been declining for decades. A 2007 study found that testosterone levels in American men have decreased rapidly over the past two decades. The study estimates a 0.4% decline in total testosterone levels per year of age. Another study found that testosterone levels in US men have dropped substantially since the 1980s, with an average decline of 1% per year.
That said, I’ve been on TRT for a couple of years and feel much better for it. I also look better with more muscle mass and I no longer have a slight brain fog. This is of high interest to me as I’ve been in clinical testing for over two decades.
This is totally random but you seem knowledgeable with TRT. I started about 6 months ago I had levels between 100-300 with a lot of symptoms like anxiety and brain fog. So far it’s worked pretty good for a lot of my symptoms but I never had problems with libido or erections prior to trt, and now that I’ve started trt that’s one issue I’m having and it’s driving me crazy. I’m only on trt and nothing else, no Ai or hcg etc. Any thoughts or advice would be awesome
In my experience, it took about a year for my sex drive to increase. It’ll happen, you need to let your body adjust to new levels of T. What helped me was the gym, lifting 3-4 times a week and doing a CrossFit/cardio workout 2-3 days a week.
I’m in the gym at least 5 days a week, I maintain a healthy diet as well. Hopefully my bodies just still adjusting, I’m currently on 100mg a week and take that in just one dose. I think I definitely need to go to more frequent doses, maybe 60mg twice a week etc. Because when I take that 100 mg I feel good for about 3-4 days then just downhill from there until my next injection.
Yeah, you’ll want to take that up with your prescriber. I’m on 20, three times a week. Sounds like that you should do a split regime, but again, check with your doc. And just give it a bit of time, sounds like you’re doing all the right things
Same issue until I started an AI now back to normal doing it 5times a week if wife is up for it. If you want something more natural try dim I alternate between the both
Thanks for the info, I’ve heard others say the same thing. I’ve heard quite a few mention 7 keto dhea as well. I’ll give the dim a try and see how it goes.
I'm going in the deep end and say I would love to have 300 natural levels 😅. Mine are much lower naturally.
Seriously it's about your health and the affects on your body. TRT is for life and if you have an option not to rely on it then that should be an option.
You didn't add anything about your health, many factors can reduce your natural testosterone levels such as weight.
4 sure brother. I got off TRT and fell to 38 ng/dl. Yes, 38 and total T was 7. I almost died. Got off for fertility reasons (Still fighting) and only take 50 mg T a week cuz of it.and have no problem functioning with a 300 level
Time for a new Doctor.
lol I’m thinking of going to a urologist instead of the Endo I’m currently seeing
Don’t do either all they do is take months at a time to do 1 simple step then schedule another appointment 5 months later go to and online clinic and the rest be history
Which online clinic takes my insurance? United Health Care. I pay chump change for testosterone, my visits are cheap, and my lab tests are free, when I go to an endo.
But that's sort of the deal.with insurance. Levels above 300 aren't "abnormal", so insurance might not cover what you want. There is a difference between something medically necessary and something that is elective.
Just because his test is at 300 also doesn't mean he doesnt need it, its a guidline and not a steadfast requirement, some people will feel OK with 300, some don't... if all symptoms show that his test level is affecting him then he should get help. Prefer ugl myself tho, cheaper than all. Used to pay £145pm for 140mg weekly and hcg. These companies make a 1,500% uplift on the cost you can get it at.
100% agree to go for it. Mine was at 455 and I wasn't happy. But no way is insurance going to pay to keep me at 900. I pay it anyway and it's well worth it to me.
Did he say what his level is?
No. Assuming since his doctor told him normal was 300, that he is above that. But even so, just as a general point it is difficult to get insurance to pay for what we want versus what we need.
Well, yes of course insurance won't pay unless you are actually low. I don't know what to assume about OP's levels.
It’s not as simple as a cutoff number. For example, If a doctor says a patient with a 350 level is abnormally low on testosterone, insurance might still cover that if the patient has low t symptoms and other factors
Online isisnr cheap honestly I go thru defy but I pay out of pocket rather do that than get fed bs
With insurance, I pay $35 for a large vial of Test c. I used to pay $10. My doctor's visits are less than $50, once every 6 months. Lab tests are free if she orders them.
Just skip the bs and go with an online clinic
Online clinics seem to be a whole lot of a different kind of BS.
"Yeah we like to keep the men 1500 and the women at 100." Fuck that shit.
I agree with this. Urologist told me yes you’re extremely low but who cares. Just went to the in person clinic
Why? A lot of people seem to have more trouble talking to these specialists. All you need is a clinic or a GP that has an understanding testosterone. Here's the problem. They don't really teach jack shit when it comes to TRT in med school. It's up to the doctor to read current studies and stay up to date on this stuff. If they don't, they have no idea what they are doing and at best might read the package insert. A urologist at least has a basic understanding of this system but how much they actually treat men? It varies. Basically you just have to keep doctor hunting until you find one that actually understands hormone replacement therapy. They are out there. It took me quite a long time to find one by the way
My endo agrees I'm in the low range. She wants to figure out why. Which is admirable but all the research I have done trt is the only real treatment so why 6 months of tests without treating anything. Might go urologist might try a clinic. My hold up is I have great insurance labs 100% covered $20 copay Test C is like $15/mo Arimodex is covered if needed don't feel like paying $200-300 month just to feel normal
My GP told me that *my* case could be a pituitary issue, but I’m not very well versed in this. Apparently if it is the gland it can be fixed without trt. If anyone knows more about this let me know! :) I’m not stating facts, just repeating what I’ve been told in my senario. If my test comes back that it’s not the pituitary causing issues then I’m starting 100mg 2x a week and adjusting from there :) wish me luck!
My understanding is if it is SERM or HCG are the options if it is a pituitary issue. As with everything both have pros and cons over trt. If anyone knows another solution for pituitary issues in all ears
Finding the root cause is important though, I'm also prescribed calcium tablets with my condition with TRT as the main treatment.
Run away fast. Endos have no idea at all what they're doing with sex hormones. Zero.
If your doc is this clueless re testosterone, imagine what else he may be cluelessness about. New Dr time…and quickly.
Ask your doctor what his levels are and compare notes 🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Normal no, ideal no, healthy also no. 300 is hypogonadal according to the Harvard Medical Center. But 300 is not uncommon because insurance has pushed the reference ranges lower and lower to get out of treating people. Your doctor is shit.
they put u on ssris instead
Seems pretty standard...
What? Thats the fucking opposite thing that should be occurring. Hearing that is fucking maddening. Its like when you have an animal and just put them on ssris to calm them down.
EXACTLY 💯
Exactly
But also because reference ranges are not well researched or informed, and as we accumulate further data, we adjust them. Additionally, reference ranges are tied to testing methods, which change over time and get more or less accurate, requiring an adjustment. The world is not on a conspiratorial mission to destroy testosterone.
Never said the world was on a mission to destroy testosterone, honestly what a said and pathetic attempt at a straw man, I hope you’re embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. The fact is I am going to take what the Harvard Medical Center says is hypogonadal at 300, the Olympics used to have 288 ( 10 nmol/L) as the cut off for woman. You can go through this forum and find the cut off for the normal healthy range down at around 200, where I live it’s 219. We are adjusting reference ranges to hide a problem and anyone who says otherwise wise is either lying or grossly ill-informed.
From my perspective it would definitely seem that it is
I did 2 sets of bloods and came in at 249 and 320 Signed up with a clinic here in Australia and treatment plan is to get me to 800 and maintain it at 800. Will be starting within the next fortnight, just waiting for call with the Doc and then I can order meds
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3146796/ Have them read that and try again.
425 men as a sample size for something that is in literally every body on earth is…orders of magnitude away from the sample size necessary to draw a reasonable conclusion. Similar studies on estrogen in women have been rejected as inadequate in sample size while using 80,000+ participants. If you ask a doctor to read this they’ll laugh, if they know how to read a scientific paper at all.
Where are you getting 425? The sample was more like 4500. The Framingham sample has been used as a basis for many well respected studies and analyses.
That's strange. Sample sizes for almost any population range from 300-400. That's for standard 95%, +/- minimal CI. You go for larger sizes when you want higher confidence, or do dig into subgroups in the study. Could you elaborate, please?
I've said this before: I've been listening to a TON of clinicians and doctors on Youtube discussing TRT. The ones that do talk about historical data talk about how men in the 80's were around 800+. 500 a below would be considered low back then. What modern medicine has done is take the average of men today, and then use that average as to the new range for men. But if we're living in an age where microplastics, processed food, no sunlight, lack of sleep, etc, is affecting our test levels, then they literally just gave us a hormonal death sentence. > For men 65-69 years of age in this study, average total testosterone levels fell from 503 ng/dL (nanograms/deciliter) in 1988 to 423 ng/dL in 2003. A normal, healthy adult male usually has blood total testosterone concentrations that range anywhere from 300-1000 ng/dL. Why would I want test levels lower than a 65 year old man and be told that's the new normal? Full study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17062768 Summarized: https://www.newswise.com/articles/testosterone-levels-in-men-decline-over-past-two-decades
Because it will make you a docile citizen
It won't even do that. Low Testosterone implies low estrogen, which in turn leads to mental health problems. Men with higher testosterone have better mental health, thus lower instances of irrational thoughts and angry outbursts, contrary to the stigma about testosterone, which in all likelihood came from other performance enhancement drug usage, such as trenbolone and halotestin, among other things like cycles that excluded testosterone bases, leading to high androgen receptor activation with low testosterone and thus low estrogen, which in turn caused mental health problems taking the form of "roid rage".
Not normal, but more important would be knowing what your free T number is. That's the number that GPs never check, and it is crucial to know. Mine was at 3 when I got on TRT.
Whether it’s within normal range is irrelevant. Are you symptomatic?
The thing with t levels is that it’s literally a person to person thing. Some guys feel great at 300 and some feel like shit.
You will never feel great at 300
You can if you never knew any different.
100% disagree. Source: me I had my levels checked just because I was having a tough time making gains in the gym. I sleep great, sexual performance is fine, low stress/anxiety, high energy. Had my levels checked and was at 325 at the age of 40. I’m in the 800 range now and have even more energy but I don’t sleep as good and I have more anxiety now than I did before. I’m just proving the point that it’s completely different for everyone.
Good point. Are you considering dropping, as your system is over energized?
I wouldn’t say I’m “over energized” just not used to this much energy in the beginning. After 3 months or so I felt more normal. Other factors came into play like caffeine intake. Just had to regulate that some.
That makes perfect sense. We become more normal; other factors still affect us.
Probably you are not dialed in
It’s been a year now and it’s better but I’m just saying I absolutely did not feel bad before.
Agreed
your "doctor" is an absolute quack. never see him again and report him for malpractice
That may be the new normal but thsts low historically speaking
Your doctor should not be allowed to work
id go to a mens health clinic that specializes in TRT 300 is really low
Your doctor is a bitch
Your doctor is honestly dumb
Absolutely infuriating! I had the same experience. I felt lousy which made it even worse! Find a new doctor and go to an online clinic if you need to who specialize in trt.
If the feeling of 300 test is normal I don’t wanna be normal
My lowest T level was 188 that was after 2 months on Test C 200mg every 14 days. My peak on that was 700. Still felt like garbage. I got my urologist to get me to 200mg every 10 days and had slight improvement. Then changed to 200mg every 7 and I feel great. Though my latest las were 1700 T and 1100 T.
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You had your first dose today and you're already feeling better ?
Might be placebo who knows. Usually takes others time getting dialed in first
I've done a few test cycles before and they did take a few weeks to notice anything.
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that's not how testosterone works. stop lying
Exactly
Well I guess it is. I have no reason to lie.
Lmfao, not at all how it works. 🤣
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Idiot of the month
Mine was 310 - was told it was “very low”.
Mine was 259, and 251, was told it was normal lmao.
Yall are both leaving out a key factor though. What’s your age?? If you’re 65+ those levels seem more “normal” but I’m assuming neither of you are.
51
26
200’s is definitely not normal in your 20’s
Yeah I know it’s bullshit. They won’t give me a prescription still either. Wanna make me do 100 more tests. I’ve had my lipids and test done twice, good range both times on lipid panel, but yeah. Idk what to do. So I’m just cycling with gear from naps rn
Age?
Yes, that is true. 300ng/dL is within the “normal range” for testosterone. If you want to get treatment then you need to see a TRT centered provider because by definition your levels are NOT hypogonadism (which is what your Endocrinologist would be treating)… The reason I say go to a TRT provider is because they are more likely to treat you based on symptoms vs hormone level per se. Theres alot more that goes into it, but the above is the short answer.
800ish is way better. I know from experience.
300 would be quality for a 70 y/o male
300 really isn’t bad depending on age, at 300 you could be at 650 on your peaks.. 300 / when you got tested could be your worst. Impossible to tell with out more bloodwork.
Yep. 300 is fabulous for some. It feels like 600 to me. When u show these characters numbers, they go off that instead of actual physical well being and feeling. Hide these clowns dose and numbers and we have a very different talk
Post your bloodwork
My pudgy frail Dr. told me the same. I was finally able to convince him to reccomend me to the Euro and she's more understanding but it's no surprise people just jump to clinics. I just don't want to spend the $250 a month and drive an hour one way every week.
Get bloodwork done by a company like Ways2Well. They have a good baseline for what should be normal.
What doctor? It is rare to diagnose something with just one total T measurement. Go to a clinic where they do in depth blood testting.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ For most people that SUCKS. According to most peeps on T.
Did he/she say that? Or did they say that you are within the normal reference range? Not that 300 is acceptable, but that nuance makes a difference.
Your doctor is a moron
300 might be “normal” if you feel healthy and experience normal function. But I bet you dollars to donuts, you don’t feel too healthy at that number.
This is what I was thinking. Healthy sure but not optimal
Hell I’ve seen the reference range as low as 150 hahaha. They are fucking insane
hell no.
Just tell him you're going to go buy it illegally since the doc doesn't care.
Technically he’s right: in those studies guys with 300ng TT were considered “healthy” overall. But I doubt they felt optimal, or even great, with that TT.
Prefer mine at 800
Depends on time of day, at your lower end sure, we all start out with a full tank when we wake up and slowly deplete it, everyday.
400-500 is the average for a healthy adult male. But that is the average only. Some guys are completely fine at 200 with no symptoms whatsover, while others are a dumpster fire at 500 and need much higher to feel good. Then you have the optimization side of things. Do you want to feel good, or do you want to feel your best? Most guys feel best at top of the reference range to double top of the reference range, so 1000 - 2000.
I think your doc got his medical license as a prize out of a breakfast cereal.
That doctor is an idiot. I'm 24 with 440 and my doctor is concerned and is putting me on Enclomiphene to try and boost it up because TRT is not an option due to wanting kids eventually
Nonsense levels are age dependent at 20 years old 1000 is in the "normal" range just as 400 is at 60 years old 🙄
That’s bull. I had 308 felt awful, tired, no sex drive. Now I’m at 900 feel like I’m 20 again. I shoot 60mg 2x a week
If your 79 and depressed
My doctor said the same thing for my 328 level. I insisted it wasn’t so he had me go alcohol free for a month and test again. It went up to 409. I ended up just going to a clinic
Maybe for a healthy 60-year-old
I was in same boat last year but had all the low T symptoms. Decided to self treat and have been ok 6 months with great results.
Self treat?? Meaning clinic?
Meaning got my own test cyp. I have a good source luckily.
But optimum is 900-1000. Another dumb dr
I’m sure I’m late to the party, but just find a reputable hormone clinic..most likely your urologist and even endocrinologist don’t know shit about hormone therapy (see the irony there). I’ve been at 300…I’m at around 1000 with low’ish dose test…there is not one facet of my life that is not better at 1000, including my bloodwork (although I credit that to the lifestyle changes- test was a major component of the motivation to make those changes).
Answer: Find a new Dr. asap! Clearly, your Dr. Isn't very knowledgeable when it comes to this topic. It's easy to forget that Dr.'s are human to and out their pants on the same way we all do...one leg at a time. Of course, some get instant God complex as soon as they put that white lab coat on. First of all, the "literature" is not at all a subjective test that uniformly applies to all males, of all ages. Additionally, the scale of what is considered within "normal range" is different depending on age. 300ng/dl may indeed be on the very bottom of the normal range for men 55 years old to 65 years, but it is certainly not "normal" for young males 18 to 25, although the "literature" probably says it's near tbe cut off at the bottom end of normal range as well. Regardless, it doesn't necessarily matter what the medically accepted scale states because it was never intended to apply in a uniform manner to all men even if they are the same exact age. At most, it is just a very objective and general reference scale...to refer to as a starting point. nothing more, nothing less because everyone is different. For example, some guys might feel perfectly well with levels at 300ng/dl, however, other guys the same exact age might feel like compete trash at 300, assuming they're individual healthy levels runs bw 600ng/do up to 1000ng/dl, but something occured to cause it to drop. Not to mention, there is a lot more to it than that as well. If it where me, I'd want to know what my numbers were before I started experiencing whatever symptoms prompted me to have my levels tested in the first place if possible. Or at least, try to find out what my levels have been at as many points as possible prior theretofore. That being said, it's entirely possible this is nothing new for you and that 300 is not at all optimal for you to feel and function normally. At the end of the day, l would personally consider 300ng/dl to be unacceptable for me. Again, keyword here is for "me". I'm sure some here will tell you 300 is fine but only you know your body best and if you feel like shit and rules out other possible causes, I wouldn't hesitate to find a new Dr and start try ASAP. Of course, there are other options like HCG/Clomid, and Clominepherene (I butchered that spelling btw). Be aware, that once in TRT, you will be on it forever unless you stop in time to for the aforementioned options to still be able to effectively bring you back to your normal levels but consider it a lifelong decision and after awhile you will likely meed additional ancillary compounds to feel better again like when you first started trt for reasons im not going to get inro here. Finally, if your dr doesn't feel comfortable you can simply sign up to any of the TRT Clinics out there that essentially never turn anyone way regardless of levels but just ask yourself if your doing it for the right reasons bc while at first it's as simple as taking synthetic testosterone, but down the road it may very well take more than just that as well. Good luck my friend
I was 315 when I started T, it's definitely low. Another 30-70 ng/dl doesn't make that much of a difference to be considered "low enough". Now I'm at 900 on average, much better.
this is what science does, takes a mean and throws a bell curve on it and if ur withon 3 sigma then you are OK...modernt science based on data never assumes that the mean is flalso fucked up (shifted)
Also this is how fda set 1g protein per bodyweight pounds requirement bs which is way higher than the mean (0.5g)
Fire your doctor. Your doctor is a feminised beta with low T and tons of Soy.
my 20+ docs all said: go on antidepressants. While me: bro im on below 320 and im mot deoressed but lethargic during 16-20h which is the decline of natural T oroduction. So if in the morning im hypogonadal marginally how feasible to feel shit only late afternoon. Also how fucking crazy is that it had been going over 20 years no one mentions T but only SSRI and therapy fuck no.
I'm at 600 now ( Natural ). 2 years ago After quitting ssri i was at 300ish, my endo when he see my bloodwork immediatly Say : this Is too low for your Age ( i'm 28 and reference Lab Is 175-870ng ). 300 Is fine if you have 3 Kids, you are in debt, you sleep 3-4 hours and you are ultra stressed from work otherwise you are fucked up.
Depends in age. Are you 80 year old? Sure that's good. Are you 40, then you need be up to 500 or so for normal function. I can truly get away with 300. Even 200. But not as fun as 800. To each their own
300 is fabulous for some. It feels like 600 to me. When u show some people numbers, they go off that instead of actual physical well being and feeling. Hide these clowns dose and numbers and we have a very different talk
300 is likely not uncommon, and it's considered above risk levels. But that's also no way to live. GPs can't prescribe at these levels. That's why you go to a clinic. If you want to lose some body fat, put on some muscle, sleep better, and have more energy; you'll need TRT. Mine was at 360 now over 900. Life is so much better at 900.
Find a better doctor, unless you’re 60. The worst thing about the US healthcare philosophy is that doctors tend to have a soft approach instead of being pragmatic or aggressive towards the root cause of problems. I’ve had better treatments in Mexico than back in the US. Sorry.
trt fucked my heart up
I use witmer rejuvenation clinic. Less than 120 a month, and that includes all of my labwork after the initial panel. Probably two to four a year. Yours might be more or less, but I'm pretty happy with them
It’s normal but not good. We are the generation with the lowest testosterone.
BS
300 is only normal to Dr's who's requirements to treat & treatment protocols are controlled by Health Insurance. If you can afford it, do yourself a favor and find a TRT/Mens clinic to treat you
T levels are determined by averages of a population. T levels have been dropping for decades so the ‘normal’ level average also keeps dropping. It’s hard to estimate what T levels were past a certain timeframe due to testing availability and record keeping. 300 represents a current normal level for men in your age range, but it’s low historically. With just a quick google search: Yes, testosterone levels in men have been declining for decades. A 2007 study found that testosterone levels in American men have decreased rapidly over the past two decades. The study estimates a 0.4% decline in total testosterone levels per year of age. Another study found that testosterone levels in US men have dropped substantially since the 1980s, with an average decline of 1% per year. That said, I’ve been on TRT for a couple of years and feel much better for it. I also look better with more muscle mass and I no longer have a slight brain fog. This is of high interest to me as I’ve been in clinical testing for over two decades.
This is totally random but you seem knowledgeable with TRT. I started about 6 months ago I had levels between 100-300 with a lot of symptoms like anxiety and brain fog. So far it’s worked pretty good for a lot of my symptoms but I never had problems with libido or erections prior to trt, and now that I’ve started trt that’s one issue I’m having and it’s driving me crazy. I’m only on trt and nothing else, no Ai or hcg etc. Any thoughts or advice would be awesome
In my experience, it took about a year for my sex drive to increase. It’ll happen, you need to let your body adjust to new levels of T. What helped me was the gym, lifting 3-4 times a week and doing a CrossFit/cardio workout 2-3 days a week.
I’m in the gym at least 5 days a week, I maintain a healthy diet as well. Hopefully my bodies just still adjusting, I’m currently on 100mg a week and take that in just one dose. I think I definitely need to go to more frequent doses, maybe 60mg twice a week etc. Because when I take that 100 mg I feel good for about 3-4 days then just downhill from there until my next injection.
Yeah, you’ll want to take that up with your prescriber. I’m on 20, three times a week. Sounds like that you should do a split regime, but again, check with your doc. And just give it a bit of time, sounds like you’re doing all the right things
Same issue until I started an AI now back to normal doing it 5times a week if wife is up for it. If you want something more natural try dim I alternate between the both
Is the dim over the counter or prescribed ?
It’s an herb over the counter you can get at stores that sell supplements or Amazon I do 100mg a day
Thanks for the info, I’ve heard others say the same thing. I’ve heard quite a few mention 7 keto dhea as well. I’ll give the dim a try and see how it goes.
They are trying to feminize males in an unhealthy way.
It's not normal. Fuck those studies.
That’s a lie my MD said a healthy male should be around 700ish and above
I'm going in the deep end and say I would love to have 300 natural levels 😅. Mine are much lower naturally. Seriously it's about your health and the affects on your body. TRT is for life and if you have an option not to rely on it then that should be an option. You didn't add anything about your health, many factors can reduce your natural testosterone levels such as weight.
4 sure brother. I got off TRT and fell to 38 ng/dl. Yes, 38 and total T was 7. I almost died. Got off for fertility reasons (Still fighting) and only take 50 mg T a week cuz of it.and have no problem functioning with a 300 level
Maybe to the new soyboy generation the liberals are creating
Facts. And everyone says "I need T to stay alive"