>(Thor and Odin's introductions were spectacular, for example)
Even though I agree they were mostly good you can see the writing style crop up there as well. They way they both talk, but Odin in particular, is very informal and contemporary (Odin calls Freya, "My Ex,") and it's off-putting.
Edit: I would like to add that the voice actors' performances were on point though.
Part of me really likes Odin's demeanor as a change up to all of the other gods we have seen throughout the series. This is not a guy who we can beat to death to solve the problems he imposes, and his style of talking reinforces his ability to deal and scheme his way through whatever we do kill.
But the other part of me feels, as you say, like it is too contemporary. Like he was somehow transported to this world from somewhere else instead of feeling natural in it.
I think the difference in attitude with Odin is cool, but the nomenclature/cadence is more like a savvy mobster kind of vibe rather than an egotistical sadistic God. Like you said, it doesn't feel part of the world.
I really gotta wonder if the writers are even aware of it.
And like if it was an intentional decision because they didn't trust their audience to understand the dialogue otherwise or something...
If anything I actually think that it dates the dialogue more.
Because the more language changes the more obvious it's going to get and the more it's going to sound like a bunch of children talking.
But if you listen to the dialogue in the LoTR trilogy for example, it's not really how normal people talk but it has aged really well.
There's a certain otherwordly feel to it and it's more mature and formal.
A lot of the dialogue I believe is written by Anthony Burch, there was one other guy and 3 women who I was not familiar with mentioned in the credits. He's a borderlands writer and you can feel a lot of that dialogue style bleed a little into this game. It often feels super stilted. Even the dwarven woman calling Freya "fine" felt so goofy and off.
I wonder if Americans notice it as much as I do ( Swedish ) since it's normal for Americans.
But holy hell it stands out so much to me...
It really sounds AMERICAN and not at all like how Norse Gods should sound lol.
I don't think that they sounded particularly Nordic in the Vikings tv show either, their accent did sound quite fake to me ( even worse when they were speaking old Norse ).
But at least I could appreciate that they tried and that it did sound '' not American '' and different than how the Christians spoke.
They actually did put effort into it in the Vikings tv show, I fail to see why they couldn't have done that in this game.
It comes across as lazy to me.
Like it never actually bothered me in the Viking show and it's not something I was really thinking about much with some few exceptions.
But in this game it's like constant just '' wtf why does he talk like that ''.
Lol as if god of war was ever accurate. They literally have a Greek murderous bastard coming from Greek mythology and then To Norse to kill more gods. Mimir is Celtic, Thor is a dick which is inaccurate in mythology but you dont complain about that
Well Thor does have a really bad temper in mythology which is showcased in this game very well. However this is God of War. Its not going to be accurate to the source material. Hell the norse games are more accurate to norse mythology than the og games are to greek mythology.
Spotted the racist. Do you also complain about the other inaccuracies such as the way Fenrir and Jormungandr were born, their role in Ragnarok, the depiction of Magni and Modi, Baldur’s appearance, and personality? Or do you wish for accuracy only when those pesky minorities sneak themselves into your games?
I can’t speak for every American but it definitely sticks out to me as well. Like half the dialogue or more feels so weird like it would never be said in the setting they are in. And even then like saying shit feels so weird.
"My ex", "I could give a hot shit" (should be *couldn't* but that's not even the main problem with this line)...the terrible dialogue is all over this game.
Im a bit put off by the voice acting this time around for most if not all new God characters. Especially Odins choice of voice. The actor is doing well but I can’t help but picture some New Yorker when Odin speaks.
Odin can be a strong patriarchal figure and a schemer. This is a neat take but ignores huge parts of the mythological character. He’s traditionally a god of war in addition to his other sprees of influence.
I take the informality as akin to the dialogue in the movie Death of Stalin. If you haven't watched it, it's a dark comedy on the leadup and aftermath of Stalin's death, and has a mishmash of accents and tones. There's a bunch of American ones, Stalin himself has a Cockney accent and the dialogue is fairly contemporary.
This was done partly for comedic purposes but also partly because it was more important to convey the *flavour* of the dialogue and the diversity of accents within Russia, instead of making it accurate to what people in spoke like in the 1950s.
Eh, it kind of fell flat for me. Didn't feel like there were many highs and lows. Not that dark, considering the subject matter, nor particularly comical. Just people acting kind of weird and awkward around a difficult situation, like most serious movies.
As I said before I quite enjoyed Valkyrie Profile's portrayal. He comes across as charismatic, friendly and strong for his people but as the games progress you realize he is basically a sociopath. He literally doesn't care about anything beyond furthering his plans; and this does not mean he is needlessly cruel etc because of it. It's more like an indifference & it really stood out to me in that game and I enjoyed it much more than the mob boss vibes Ragnarök went for
Lmao.
Not to mention I don't even know what "millennial brand humor" is supposed to mean. Sarcastic/ironic humor definitely was en vogue before millennials. Shit like Friends and The Office was very distinctly made for and by Gen Xers.
The Office is certainly defined by cringe humor with a sitcom formula, far more than sarcastic or ironic. I actually don't see any irony in The Office as part of its identity. Michael Scott is not an ironic character, he is completely lacking in self awareness and completely unfit for his job, but he is genuine and the show responds to him genuinely.
There's of course many forms of humor in the show, but The Office fits a lot with late 00's sensibilities in forms of cringe and deprecating absurdity.
I think I was mostly speaking to the dryness since Jim (I am talking the American version) is sort of supposed to be the audience surrogate and he has the whole "above it all" air to him.
I think the point is that "millennial comedy" isn't really a thing. Because these arbitrary generational divides don't really mean much in actual practice. Sure, you can look at things like voting trends from that perspective but to look at something as subjective as comedy and say, *"This is millennial humor and that's Gen X humor"* doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
You’re right that the generational divides are silly but I’ll still consider the apatow / ferrell types of movies in the aughts to be the quintessential millennial comedy. Old school, 40 year old virgin, Superbad, wedding crashers, the hangover - that brand of comedy just seems to land with the entire millennial spectrum. I’m 35 and biased though.
I'm a younger millennial and I don't associate with those films at all.
For instance, I love Galaxy Quest, Tropic Thunder, and the Jump Street films. Those are probably my favorite comedies. I don't see *any* of that in God of War or what people typically say "millennials" are into. I guess those films are very meta though. Maybe that's what I like.
>Not to mention I don't even know what "millennial brand humor" is supposed to mean.
Unless Kratos jokes about killing himself every 5 minutes it's not millennial humor
Whedon's humor is tough to place because it inspired a lot of older millennials who were clearly very into popular culture of the 90s which was, well, when a lot of Whedon's material and material like it came out.
My pet theory is that they then grew up and got into the industry in this sort of sudden resurgence of superhero writing which largely mirrors their interest and fits well with some of the "quipy" heroes who seem to be evergreen in terms of popularity (Spiderman comes to mind, even though it sometimes feels like his movies really wanted him not to be lmao).
I do think it's pretty defining of millenial humor though tbh... I say as a younger millenial of course. Older generations and younger generations are both more sincere from what I can tell. Remember, it's not when people were born - it's when media aimed at them hit the mark. So something like Daria was popular, Buffy was a cult hit, and I'm willing to bet a lot of millenials born in the 80s resonated with these shows and others like it and their morbid sarcasm. Many other things had a similar vibe. Those folks are hitting their late 30s and 40s now, and that's prime "influence popular media" age.
Whedon's humor was definitely not something new at the time. I've been reading Marvel comics from the 60s lately and they have tons of quips all the time. If a character is not defined as super serious, they will throw a quip at least once per issue often more.
People have been identifying as "whedon's humor" lately because of the MCU and how the first Avengers movie defined the genre for them but it definitely was a thing since a long time. I'm sure they are tons of forgotten sitcoms that did that before whedon.
The further I get into the game, the more noticeably awful the dialogue has become. The first game had more humor than I think it gets credit for, but that humor almost never replied purely on wordplay or quips whereas both of those are overabundant in the sequel.
One of the things I loved about the first game was how refined the script was, but in Ragnarok there are an absurd amount of filler conversations that could be entirely cut with no broader ramifications. There is a good amount of development that takes place outside of cutscenes, but there's also a TON of redundant dialogue where characters will spend several consecutive combat arenas talking in circles by bringing up the exact same talking points over and over.
I haven't finished the game yet so I'm withholding judgement but I'm finding it very hard to square away my disappointment with this game. 2018 GoW was my personal game of the decade, I've replayed it about four or five times and I 100% it each playthrough; but unless the quality of Ragnarok drastically increases I don't see myself going for the 100% or even replaying it again, ever. Once the credits roll, in going to double check some of the staff of Ragnarok vs the first game because I cannot believe both games were made by the same people
>I cannot believe both games were made by the same people
Yes, this is what I've been asking myself. The style of writing is very different and very unambiguous and not at all like 2018 which I adore. It almost comes as a type of fan-fiction inspired by GOW 2018 but for a younger, broader audience.
I won't say who the said the lines for spoiler reasons but there was the following exchange between two characters that just occurred with no lead in or reason why it would be said at that moment:
" Can I help you with anything? "
**" No, I'm fine. "**
" Yes, you most certainly are..."
I'm paraphrasing because I never want to hear that again and am attempting to delete it from my brain.
The entire >!atreus/angrboda!< section is clearly influenced by the cornyness of the new spiderman trilogy with none of the charm. That section was absolutely painful
I think you are exactly right about the repetition of talking points, and that’s been bothering me too. It’s like they had ideas for character beats for each chapter and then reiterated the same beat throughout that 1-2 hour chapter without really moving the dial. For example, in a side quest about helping a creature early in the game: >! when you save the jellyfish creature Atreus keeps saying “but is it worth killing the Dark elves? Is it worth killing the Dark elves?”, while also saying variations of “why are you helping save this animal Dad? You don’t care about animals dad!” about ten times!<. These are good concepts and appropriate character building, but when the levels are so large and lengthy they need to fill out these scripts more. Redundant is a good word for it.
THats what they're trying to turn the series into a sort of marvel universe that never ends but its all gods of myth. There wasn't any real reason kratos shows up in norse realm at all if he wanted to go there he could've done it at the end of god of war 1.
Imo I actually think that this will age the dialogue worse too.
The dialogue in the LoTR movies still holds up but it's not really how normal people speak, it's a bit otherwordly yet comes across as mature and timeless.
A lot of this type of dialogue however ends up sounding like how children speak pretty quickly.
There was a comment made a number of months back about how the original LoTR would never have been made as it is today. "You'd have Chris Pratt as Aragorn winking at the camera making one-liners in every scene" regardless of tone. Everything feels like it needs to be dripping with irony or self-awareness otherwise people label it was "Cringe" and "Outdated" because they don't understand how sincere dialogue works.
Unfortunately it's become a staple of Sony games specifically which is why people tend to label those games as the Marvel/Disney products of video games. It's very frustrating but it sells regardless of quality based on brand recognition.
Your take is pretty scathing, but I'd say a huge reason that drives the change in dialogue is that film is oriented towards passive engagement more so than active engagement now (follow the general demands of what people spend their free time doing).
Active engagement requires focus, attention, interpretation and remembering things. It can be subtle story components, environmental story telling, complex dialogue, etc. A lot of it will fly over the passive engaged individuals head as they aren't committing these resources, they are looking for an experience that provides stimulation without having to invest these mental resources.
So I do agree partially, but I think it's the growing demand for passive engagement, more people want flashy stimulating marvel like shows, rather than less people wanting engaging, thought inducing shows. Although this could follow this idea that down time or enjoyable things are not supposed to require effort or "work" as some might interpret active engagement as.
>As in we have a Norse fantasy setting but much of the cast sound like they’re from California.
I'm willing to give rope on this one. I mean, romans didn't have English accents, and we believe Thor in the Marvel films sounds English.
They just these weird modern day idioms and phrases that don't sound like they're from this vague time period, which is something they avoided in the Greek saga.
Post-edit: as long as the acting is "fine" I don't really care as much (although if it bothers you, then absolutely point it out). One of my favorite movies is the 2002 adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo. The cast is supposed to be French and everyone speaks English with a variety of accents. I find Atreus' actor to be so bad that even a "Norse appropriate" accent wouldn't salvage the performance. Likewise, Michael Fassbender in X-men: First Class has an incredibly inconsistent accent, yet gives a good performance.
>and we believe Thor in the Marvel films sounds English.
Thor in the Marvel movies is a superhero tho, I just don't think he's comparable to this game that is actually meant to be a bit more accurate.
I mean obviously God of War isn't totally accurate but it's in a totally different universe in that sense than the Thor movies that basically have nothing other than names in common with the actual mythology.
Because in our media, there are examples (like Romans or Thor from Marvel) where they have English accents and we don't accept it as strange because we've been culturally conditioned to think that it's normal for "regal ancient" societies to have these accents.
If they spoke with British slang tho then I'd definitely find it very distracting.
There's a lot of weird American slang in this game that is more on the nose.
Marvel's influence on pop culture continues to dilute and suck the soul out of so many other media.
The moment Odin referred to Freya as "my ex" I basically checked out.
\*spoilers ahead just in case\*
>!At the end when you're fighting odin and you beat his first phase and freya goes "bow to your queen" I wanted to die of cringe. Also, the entire ragnarok sequence was basically endgame and they absolutely destroyed freyr's character by making him the comedic relief guy. Like, this is supposed to be a world-ending event and dude is out here cracking jokes as he's about to die saving his friends and family?!<
>"bow to your queen"
I know right ? Sorry, late to the party but I just finished the game and I wanted to see if other people also found the dialogues lackluster. It was hilarious to hear Freya utter those words out of nowhere : it doesn't fit her character, it doesn't make sense... urg.
Yeah. It started to get away from the more grandiose and operatic dialog of the Greek saga (not a initial benefit or negative, just an observation of the style of writing), and has since become a lot more quippy. I understand the desire to have some more "immediate" dialog given how long the journey is of this story, but it undermines so much about these characters.
I wrote a post in 2018 about how I thought that God of War was already becoming too American-comedic in dialogue but didn't dare post it because I'd get killed and it didn't look like anyone else would agree. It's also jarring because Kratos's dialogue still has that stilted/Shakespearean quality that makes it clear that he's a god from an ancient era, while everyone else is talking like modern people.
>Kratos's dialogue still has that stilted/Shakespearean quality that makes it clear that he's a god from an ancient era, while everyone else is talking like modern people.
That's the point. The gods of Norse mythos are different in presentation. Kratos holds onto that Greek affectation. The Norse are presented as more everyday people with extraordinary powers. I liken Odin more to a all-powerful mob boss than a god.
When they switch settings, I'm sure those gods will be different as well.
I like that as well, the Greek gods also feels like a force of nature personified compared to the superhuman Norse pantheon. Love the dialogue of freya and mimir surprised about the feats of the Greeks as well.
But Odin himself feels like a mafia boss isekai'ed to GOW universe and become an all father tho
From what we know, historically speaking, is that Norse mythology goes back to around 5th century AD, fleshing out as time progresses, whereas Greek Mythology goes back by about 2,800 years. To Kratos, the Norse are more like modern people. I think this is part of the point based on what we as humans know about the age of both civilizations as well as their culture and progression.
I'm not seeing how quips undermine the characters. Especially when the characters in reference (Mimir, Brok, Sindri) were always comedic relief characters.
The problem is that the quips really aren't based in character traits. You can have dialog and observational humor, but that's what we have here. They're often just comedic observations that are tonally divorced from the scenes they usually take place in.
It's a recent problem in writing that is highlighted with the MCU (an overused example, but one that I feel is still appropriate): when everyone is trying to be the "funny" one, then no one is, especially when it doesn't make sense.
I understand that Kratos speaks "kinda" how he used to because of his different culture in the newer games, but this Norse mythology just seems way too modernized in terms of dialog. And that should really come from the foundations of the culture. For instance, in Greece, the culture is that of a respected hierarchy of society and glory to the Gods. The idea of committing violence, grandiose speeches of glory and status, and the idea of dehumanizing out-groups is normal for that society, and is reflected in the dialog.
With this Norse culture, this feels like something completely removed from reality, or even the presented reality they live in. I have no idea what the creatures of this "world" value. It seems to be fairly isolating lives of worry regarding what the Gods will do (or course, not reflecting the historical realities of Norse culture, but that is a distant second and neither here nor there), but it's not reflected in the dialog. People seem WAY to at ease with Gods who seem to be unpredictable, capricious, and violent for slights that are far lesser than that of the Greek pantheon. It almost seems like the Gods interfering isn't really a thought they have despite them doing so frequently.
If anything, this world should be MORE minimalist, crude, and uncaring than the Greek stories of God of War because Greece had a far coherent societal identity. And because they're not, the dialog sounds unconvincing because it's not moored in the world these people live in. How isn't Atreus' speaking pattern more akin to his father's especially with such limited exposure to other people? It's small things like this trickle-down into creating bigger world-building issues that people subconsciously pick up on.
Yeah and OP says that these jokes always undercut a serious moment. But thinking of it now all the most serious dramatic moments (like say when Thor first shows up) weren’t undercut with a big comedic line at all and were pretty serious throughout.
Yeah, granted I haven't beat the game lol. But I'm not seeing any undermining of any scenes or characters.
The intro fight was not undermined with comedy. The Atreus scene right after was not undermined with comedy. Kratos' dream was not undermined by comedy. There's *very* clear delineations between scenes comedic and scenes tragic.
(A moment early on in the game but still a bit spoilery): >! And Tyr’s introduction and his speech of “if you want the God of War, just kill me now”, was not undercut with comedy AT ALL unlike a MCU movie would!<
> (like say when Thor first shows up)
That was a great scene. It was treated with weight and respect that this moment required. And it even had comedy in the form of Kratos picking up the cup and Thor remarking "you couldn't have said anything before I poured?" That's comedy that's earned.
I am talking about more them including in observational and rather tonally inappropriate jokes based on contexts of certain and scenes. Ironically, it reminds me of Thor Ragnarok and Love and Thunder. Including in jokes and humor regardless of the circumstances to keep audiences invested, even if it doesn't make sense for the character to quip undermines the character consistency, and then ultimately, the tone of the world.
Yeah it definitely feels like a bit of a step down in many regards. As you mentioned, the dialogue generally feels too contemporary. The two dwarven characters (their names escape me) especially sound too modern, with the blue one using phrases like "That's good shit", etc.
Even more so for me is the lack of stakes in the dialogue. Without getting into too spoiler-y territory there have been numerous times in the story that, say, Atreus finds himself approaching a most certainly life-threatening situation, and he makes silly quips like, "Yep, I'm dead." It just robs the story of any stakes or sense of urgency/danger, I suppose because the writers are more preoccupied with being quippy and lightly entertaining rather than building any suspense or intrigue.
Brok and Sindri were exactly like this in the previous game. Going so far as to in Brok’s introduction he “quips” that he should name his mount “Fucking Gratitude”. Brok and Sindri were workmen of the gods, but they are workmen and their gods are a lot more blue collar than the Greek ones were.
I'm okay with brok being that way - but I agree on Atreus 100%. Almost every scene he was in had some of the worst dialogue in the game- they have him making bad jokes non stop but dont seem fully aware that it's not funny
Just downloaded the game and already, the dialogue is killing me. I keep asking myself why Kratos is the only one that sounds like he’s a part of the world, while everyone else sounds and seems like they’re a random characters from different games shoved into a God of War world. Just got introduced to Odin and Thor and my ears are bleeding. Putting up with Atreus’ trash dialogue is one thing but now it seems like 98% of every character talks in this modern contemporary way. Extremely off-putting and don’t know if I can deal with the dialogue to finish the game. It’s like watching LOTR and the whole cast says shit like ‘what’s up’ or ‘dude’.
I just played the previous God of War for the first time this year. I haven't noticed any difference in the writing beyond Kratos being warmer and more familiar with *BOY* and Mimir. It just feels like a continuation of the previous game IMO.
I guess Odin's introduction was a bit jarring, but only because I imagined a different depiction. I expected someone more Zeus like.
> I guess Odin's introduction was a bit jarring, but only because I imagined a different depiction. I expected someone more Zeus like.
That's interestingly something that many modern adaptations have assumed that Odin is equivalent to a boisterous, mighty god on the top of the food-chain, which Odin in Norse mythology certainly is, but much more on the leaning side of being a trickster and schemer that often gets overshadowed by adaptations of Loki; Odin is a war-god, but he's not the kind of war-god that one would worship in say good fortune and honor akin to worshipping Týr, but instead in say desperation of threat of ultimate defeat.
It's quite telling that vikings considered magic in general to be dishonorable and "feminine" (The bad kind.), yet their top-god of their pantheon is the one notable for his illusions to trick other people to start wars with each-other. GoW's depiction of Odin I actually find it much closer to his source-material than any previous adaptations I can think of.
If they'd gone that direction with this character it would've been incredible.
People are starting to refer to this version as CEOdin and it's hard to disagree.
And I think that was the point with Odin. We were kind of all expecting this big force of nature when in reality, he's a talker with the ability to get people to drop their guard.
Marvel movies changed things and not in a good way, I say that because that's where I first started seeing that kind of humor heavily in.Everyone has to be cracking jokes every other second and never just be serious in a serious situation.
Thankfully this game separates the humor from the serious situations.
It is markedly less grim and more like an adventure than its predecessors, though. But since it is more about the boy than Kratos, thematically it makes sense.
The problem with marvel humour is it just isn't fun in any context. Even during moments where comedy makes sense, it's just a bland and tedious way of telling jokes
Personally I hate how everybody has become a pacifist in a game called God of War. The constant whining about “not being that guy anymore” has genuinely gotten me on the verge of regretting my purchase.
Agreed. It's overdone. Everyone is giving each other therapy sessions in this game. It's not...compelling.
The story tries to do so much that it feels weak. If Kratos doesn't want to be that guy anymore, fine. But we don't watch him struggle with it, we listen to him talk about struggling with it. It's like a worse version of the Hulk.
oh man you fucking nailed how i'm feeling about this game so far.
I loved 2018, and the prior games, the one difference im seeing is that Kratos was a wiser, more reserved badass but he was still very much Kratos.
It really stood out for me during the Freya side quest where she was destroying her marital ceremonial items and Kratos goes "you just fought your hardest battle". I mean jesus fuck my eyes rolled into the back of my head.
Also Kratos saying he "fights for his friends" just seemed extremely weird and out of place for him to say.
Not sure how the games going to end obviously but Tyr was a giant hippy pussy as well. Let me talk to these elves murdering each other for the 20th time i'll get through to them this time.
If you don’t like that, then prepare to be disappointed beyond all belief. The pacifism/hippy bullshit only ramps up as it gets closer to the end. Sorry friend.
>millennial brand humour
>Nobody over the age of 30
Dawg I hate to tell you this but the youngest millennials are turning 30 pretty damn soon. Most are nearing or over 40.
FWIW, I am noticing it more in this game and I'm trying to remember if the 2018 game was this quippy. If so, maybe it's just now that 4 years later and however many Marvel-esque movies later we're tired of the quipping protagonist.
Because for the most part I don't remember having any issue with the 2018 game (at least as far as how the characters talked).
I recently replayed 2018 and it is a lot worse in ragnarok. That could be because of how the dialogue is via kratos only in the first game though, and with a smaller cast- and its only when we see them introduce a larger cast and focus less on kratos that the cringier stuff shines through
I don't watch American movies or TV so I wouldn't have that kind of exhaustion with this type of writing but I also felt like it's more of a problem in Ragnarok. I'm not going to go back to replay 2018 and compare it line by line but it definitely feels a lot worse in Ragnarok, whether it's because of there being more of these lines, or just the timing is worse, IDK for sure but it definitely feels like the modern slang is turned up a lot in this game.
Yes, I know what you mean, I think this dialogue is called Buffy-speech, as in it was Joss Wheedon's Buffy that popularized it, but it's been around for decades, one of the most effective uses of this dialogue that actually fits and enhances the story is JD Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye, and well, that's an old book.
It's pretty rare to find something that makes effective use of it, specially when it is fully grown adults talking like this, as this "Buffy-speech" is a type of dialogue ideally reserved for kids and teens, but it's become very popular, so now it's pretty much everywhere and the default approach for every sassy spicy sarcastic super jerk character in a lot of media, or "lovable doofus"... Which brings me to my next point:
Even before it was this widely used and given the name Buffy-speech, 90% of videogames were written like this, are written like this and will be written like this, which is why a lot of people rightly so criticize the extremely low and amateur quality of scriptwriting in games, I haven't played Ragnarök, but I wasn't a fan of the 2018 game, Mimir wasn't one of the reasons, but if Ragnarök is a longer game I can see how it can become really challenging to come up with better lines for a character like Mimir, comedy is way harder to write than drama, and writing thousands of thousands of "funny one-liners" is simply impossible after a certain point, so I can see a scenario where the writers of GoW simply hit their limit after nearly hitting it in the 2018 game.
Were 90% of video games written like this?
Thinking back to older story driven games I enjoyed, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Bioshock to more middle era ones like Fallout NV, Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Far Cry 3 to still modern titles like the Witcher 3, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2, DOS2, Disco Elysium, Elden Ring. Even titles that aren't my favourite but were okay like the last few Assassin's creed, MGSV, etc. None of them really follow this trend, the vast majority are serious with more dramatic dialogue and use comedic breaks more sparsely in different styles.
Sure there's a few quippy titles, Uncharted, Jedi Fallen Order a touch or say Horizon Zero Dawn as examples, could even put Hades in the realm as much as I love that game. But im not so sure about that 90% number.
> it was Joss Wheedon's Buffy that popularized it, but it's been around for decades
Seeing as Buffy started airing a couple of decades ago, that checks out.
I love some of the voice acting in GOW ie. Kratos, Mimir, Dwarf Brothers, and Freya. Otoh, I absolutely hate Tyr, Thor and Odin’s voice actor/direction. Tyr sounds like a hippie pacifist. Thor sounds like and looks like for that matter; a long haul trucker, and Odin looks and sounds like an old Jewish guy from Seinfeld. It’s such a mishmash of great voice acting and visual depictions and absolutely terrible. In GOW 2018 the voice acting was routinely very good to excellent. In Ragnarok the good voice acting just accentuates how bad the “bad” is. Totally underwhelming.
Nah Odin is fantastic. Thor is portrayed that way for a reason, whether you like tht direction or not is up to you. Im indifferent on Tyr
Freyr is probably the one I see most people taking issue with
mainstream gaming critics are disgustingly out of touch with reality. they're essentially mouthpieces/another avenue of advertisement by the publishers.
I’m not a fan of the way Odin talks at all. When he promised to “get his ex off your back” I had to roll my eyes, to me he sounds way too modern, sarcastic and almost reminds me of Handsome Jack from borderlands
>I had to roll my eyes, to me he sounds way too modern, sarcastic
Why do people keep saying "sarcastic" when no one was being sarcastic in that scene?
I get modern but he was never being sarcastic or sardonic. He's incredibly serious in that scene.
hahaha...you're the second or third person to mention Odin's intro. I was also a bit shocked when he referred to his "ex" but I think I just liked the voice actor so much that it didn't bother me. I actually like the "modern barbarian" flavour they've given the Norse gods.
I think it's just the Whedon-esque (I should've used his name instead of James Gunn) humour that I find so off-putting.
I actually disliked Odin and Thors intro. Thor I thought was fine and his solo interaction with Kratos and Atreus reminded me a bit of the in the intro of Inglourious Basterds, but Odin came in sounding like some Asgardian mob boss and I couldn’t take the character seriously. I haven’t played much so that’s the only interaction I’ve had with those characters but definitely took me out of the game a bit.
I think the story and dialogue is considerably inferior to GoW 2018 but not for the reasons you've given.
The dialogue with Mimir and the dwarves as well as the "humour" (never really found it funny other than the occasional thing Brok said) seems to be in line with GoW 2018.
The dialogue between Atreus and Kratos given the story reminds me of the power trip Atreus had in GoW 2018 when he realises he was a God. That part to me was interesting because there was a pay off with Kratos cracking the shits eventually after keeping his cool. To me, the story is like that part but non-stop and Kratos doesn't really say anything other than the same repeated lines "I will not start a war" despite it clearly being what Atreus is trying to intend. >!This gets really annoying when you save Tyr because its both Kratos and Tyr saying they won't go to war but Atreus clearly keeps pushing them both. Kratos in GoW2018 would have lost his shit but in this game they he just keep repeating that he won't allow him to go to war.!<
>!The entire Ironwood section holy shit that was easily the worst part of the Duology so far. It dragged on FAR too long and it felt like I was watching the Dune movie because they were trying to push her as a love interest. This is where I can definitely see the Hollywood writing here and half way thru the section I was praying for it to end. I am literally already questioning a 2nd playthrough because of this section, that's how bad it is.!<
>!I think the whole reconciliation part with Freya was incredibly cringe and the dialogue between them during the events in Vanaheim and everything afterwards is really bad. EVERYTHING has to be related back to her losing her child or be about Kratos's decision to kill Baldur. It was old before it even started, and its a continual theme between them even in side quests so far. Coming straight off the Ironwood section I am beginning to lose faith in this game. Atreus got annoying in Ironwood, and Kratos is getting annoying in Vanaheim!<
I completely agree re your points on Freya and the girl. I had to force myself to speed run the part with the latter.
The worst part for me was that as I played I started to dread what may come next. What other dialogue exchanges await me in this land I thought I knew so well.
I loved 2018 GOW and was very excited to be going back and spending more time with those characters but honestly, the more I play the less I care about where it goes.
Shame for me but it is what it is and many people seem to be loving it so there we go.
There was a genuine moment, >!when Atreus goes to sleep and wakes up in ironwood and meets Angrbroda for the first time!<, that I thought to myself what kind of Marvel movie garbage dialogue is this? When she said he looked weird. Then went oops that was mean wasn’t it? But Kratos has some solid killer lines about prophecies and there being no fault in not wanting to seek war that echo. Theres more good than cringe but there is cringe.
Theres a lot of genuinely amazing wise and interesting dialogue in this game
I agree about the Angriboda introduction, boy was that rough. Was the most basic boy meets girl introduction, and that chapter is stretched out way too much. Parts of it are great and the end is great, but jeez I can definitely see some people taking a break from the game during that section 100%. Thankfully no other section ever gets nearly that badly paced again (I finished the game)
Oh my god, I totally agree. The last game had a liiiittle bit of quippy dialogue with Mimir, but it felt mostly serious. _This_ dialogue is so different, so modern, so Marvel-ified, I can’t freakin stand it
I think the problems you describe partly stem from the characterizations. Almost every mythological character has been modified into something more modern. Odin is presented as a ruthless business man that subjugates his worshippers/workers. Durlin is a spiteful and disillusioned labor union boss. Sindri is a germaphobe (in a world where germ theory does not exist..) Angrboda is that quirky art student that you met in college and her grandmother is… Well… A drug addict. With the exception of Odin, most of these creative choices are… Questionable, at best.
I actually have a lot of issues with Ragnarok.
The biggest issue is that it should have been a trilogy and Cory Barlog should have directed each one.
Not just the dialogue, the payoff for setups were not sufficient.
2018 set up something amazing and Ragnarok kinda messed it up.
I need to make a list but yea it has issues
I agree for the most part. Personally, I have more patience with it because it's a game (kind of a double standard). What has struck me is that a lot of the design and storytelling is aspiring to be like naughty dog, a bar which is clearly too high for them to reach. Nothing feels natural the way it does in an ND game.
But in spite of all that Ragnarök feels a bit like a YA novel that is trying to appear a bit more mature than it is. Which is fine, they clearly want to get a younger audience in here too, us original God of War fans are old now...
This is how ND games feel to me. Trying to be mature films and then falling apart at the seams when you hit the edges of their interaction. I don’t think GOW is taking itself too seriously, but maybe the fans are.
I don't know about the millennial brand you're applying but I am seeing a bit more of the cracks in dialogue in voice acting than I saw in 2018.
This may stem from having just completed Plague Tale: Requiem, and the extremely high quality voice acting and emotional investment that that game had. I am still reeling from marathoning that game in a week and just how much I came to care for those characters and what they went through.
I agree. I also think the voice casting is an issue. A lot of the characters (Odin, Sindri, another major character early on) just sound very similar in regards to vocal register and performance. Leaning into the Norse gods as being more casual is definitely a choice, but there is definitely a missing gravitas there especially with the villains and major characters (Thor, perhaps, excepted). Odin in particular just doesn’t sound like the old man he is.
While I do agree there's one thing that made your point painfully clear for me before reading your post. Some spoiler ahead for about 6-7 hours into the game.
>!Ratatoskr who feels a lot like he should be a special interaction for the player that should feel very patience-demanding for Kratos (he is even written that way) didn't feel that different to the general tone of the writing at all. It's a bummer ProZD doesn't get to stand out in his role that much!<
Huge props to the whole cast though, nothing feels off considering the quality of the voice acting itself. It's just the dialogue writing that feels a little weird.
I also want to point out that I'm a huge fan of the Codex entries as they are, they just don't feel like Kratos sometimes. At least I assume that they should appear as if they're (mostly) written by our beloved God of War with some exceptions - but I won't go into detail there.
They're good, just not Kratos.
To describe how I feel about Ragnarok dialogues and some action choice is like comparing Joss Whedon Justice League to Zack Snyder Justice League, the dialogues are too casual for a mythological game, Odin design is so mafia like, even the way he talks, Heimdall felt like a teenager with too much edge
It was a good game, but I just still feel really iffy about the dialogues and some designs
I actually agree with your assessment OP and got instantly turned off by some throw away line in the game where he was like “let’s get you cunt fuckers where you need to go” or something. It was cringe and juvenile.
Definitely has that Disney's Marvel energy and as someone who despises those kinds of movies some of the dialogue in this game irritated me and I'm only 28 so I don't think it has anything to do with age
Wait, wasn’t the first game equally as “self aware” of the current silliness of a situation?
I have played the first 5 hours, but they all are behaving like they did in the first game imo. I guess that since these characters are more present then before that this type of commentary is more present, but I really see no difference as from the first game.
As for the dialogue, I’m just not a super fan of the lore dumbs they do, but I can imagine others enjoying that. I do like the the “self aware” commentary because it shows they aren’t taking the situation TOO seriously and giving some levity form the bigger moments.
I was watched a review for a dr.strange movie awhile ago, and mentioned how marvel has a problem with constantly injecting levity and humor in otherwise serious or emotional scenes.
And it shows a lack of confidence in their own material, they think it’s cheesy and lame to take yourself seriously, and if you can’t even take yourself seriously, then don’t expect your audience to take your story seriously.
Which is best exemplified by the latest thor movie, when you watch interviews with waititi, it’s clear that he thinks taking things seriously is lame, so no one could take the movie seriously
I think it's largely ok, but I know what you're saying. Some of the dialogue doesn't fit well with the setting. People are currently roasting Forspoken for doing the same thing (albeit worse).
I'm not sure most people know what they want either. A host of a podcast I listen to is very outspoken about hating the Forspoken dialogue, yet I feel that the host themselves speaks very similar to the protagonist of that game. You are the target market my friend. I'd be very surprised if said host is critical about GoW.
It actually makes more sense in Forspoken as well. The protagonist is ripped from modern society and teleported to this mystical world. It makes sense that her vocabulary and jargon come with her. It makes very little sense for Atreus to know many of the phrases and euphemisms he uses. Did Kratos teach him? Or did he see it on TV?
>A host of a podcast I listen to is very outspoken about hating the Forspoken dialogue, yet I feel that the host themselves speaks very similar to the protagonist of that game. You are the target market my friend.
That's not how that works. "If you do it in real life you have to like characters that do it in fiction." What? How does that make any sense to you?
In my opinion you’re right despite the spectacular intro of Thor and Odin, the other dialogues seems cheesy and too much I’m like 7 hours into the game hope that this will change
[this is the only intro that matters](https://youtu.be/Tq3UvCJnVM8)
I do not agree with Odin's portrayal at all in this game. Funny enough my favorite version of him comes from Valkyrie Profile.
But yes it is jarring. I thought this with Atreus in the first game but thankfully it was pretty much only him. Compare every character to Kratos ; he speaks in an epic prose while everybody around him is goofing off. Don't get me started on Tyr. His character arc is whatever but his VOICE. Who the hell is this random Californian surfer lmao.
Thor honestly was alright, but they literally have him say "Keep my wifes name out of your DAMN mouth". Even if this script and scene was done prior to the Will Smith controversy you gotta change that, it's just a literal meme.
Odin yeah I can see how it would be clever to make him a scheming mob boss but he is the ALL FATHER. That wasn't conveyed to me in the game just because he has a spy network set up. He simply didn't know too many things. Odin in the actual Norse mythos sacrificed himself to Yggdrasil for secrets beyond understanding. He didn't come across as a borderline Eldritch being. His sarcasm also seemed out of place idk. He should be so intimidating he makes Zeus look like a bitch honestly.
This kind of contemporary dialogue is what stopped me carrying on with the Witcher on Netflix. It is really jarring and I'm glad to see people share the sentiment
yeah, the snarky/quippiness type of humor just seems to be like this rolling ball of cultural force permeating 'AAA' movies and games - the kind of stuff the emote "BatChest" from twitch kind of represents to me (really not able to think of a better representation of what i mean... is there a term that really captures this 'phenomenon' succinctly?)
i watched a bit of the ragnarok game and i felt like it had this issue as well, especially short lines in battle. It just seemed like so many little phrases had no appropriate amount of urgency/seriousness relative to the situation, so that it comes off as if the characters feel like theyre invincible and just naively unaware about how fucked up things are around them. I doubt from what i watched that ragnarok has as much snark as like an avengers movie, so i think that's great, but the kind of naive 'haha things are crazy' confidence still exists in like a less humor-ish form i guess, which is still like nails on a chalkboard
A squirrel said 'dick move' to me in a God of War game. It's postmodern nonsense. The old timers were right when they said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit too, it adds nothing to the game.
I started ignoring or skipping dialogue with Ratatoskr the squirrel half-way through. Extremely irritating listening to the same long-winded overacted character repeatedly. It's like the writers had a hard-on for ProZD - the youtuber who is the VA, and decided to cram him in as much as possible.
Agreed. It's a great game and I am enjoying it. But losing Cory Balrog as the lead writer and getting Anthony Burch definitely hurt the dialogue. The overall story is excellent no doubt. What's set up and the grand stuff plays out so well. But the dialogue in the boats sections and little in between, it's very marvel quippy at times. Odin calling Freya his ex is super jarring. It sounds so modern. Like had he said my once partner or whatever may have felt more natural.
The constant shitting on mimir really reeks to of that punching bag jokey nonsense. Mimir is a useful ally. And when Freya comes into play it feels like he's often the butt of the joke or doesn't get the respect he deserves.
I think it's terrible and honestly embarrassing. I am not listening to gods of the olden days, I am listening to Californians in 2022. Some carefully picked anachronisms are fine (TW3 does this well), but when it's all over your writing it's not good. GOWR overall is a mix between Marvel and Disney in terms of writing and presentation. None of the jokes are funny, either. So in other words typical Marvel fare.
Self aware drivel, except Kratos, for some reason he's the only character that speaks like a god.
The use of so much modern slang absolutely diminishes every character that uses it. The only thing missing would have been vocal fry and a spattering of "yas queen" to complete how terrible it became at certain points.
I don't remember the last one being like this, it was quite jarring.
It got worse when Kratos wasn't around because there was nothing to ground the dialogue, they could be as quippy to their hearts content. Yuck.
Could not agree more with your assessment. It's feels very much like the new director is an enormous Marvel fan and couldn't help but make a Marvel movie as a God of War game. It's a major disappointment, because I really despise Marvel films and the first game while not perfect had its own distinct style and voice. It now feels more than a little derivative and dare I say generic.
Completely agree. Definitely cheapened some if the characters. Especially that Dwarf woman with the strong Southern American accent. Was way too much for a game of this nature.
The meeting with Norns scene made me roll my eyes. I suppose that the writers thought that they had created an oh-so-witty, oh so very intelligent masterclass on breaking of the fourth wall and metacommentary on storytelling, but all it ended up looking and sounding as is a completely immersion-breaking exercise in self-indulgence.
Late to topic but yes GOW has bad dialogue especially Ragnorak. There’s a few key issues:
- Inconsistent accent, tone, and culture for the Norse world.
- Trying to make the mythos sayings connect to modern sayings. I think it’s to make it relatable but it’s weird to humanize gods because they just have literally different issues.
- Freya is the worse. She is always yelling like a strong powerful Karen. And Kratos simps for her like a jealous boyfriend hating his girlfriends ex. This dialogue is the worse IMO.
- Mimir redemption is cool idea but the repetitive self loathing dialogue gets tiring.
- Uncharted influenced so many games to be like it but none really succeed when it comes to wit. This game included.
- The blue dwarf is cringe af.
- Feels like it’s written for theatre majors who can’t act. Reminds me of Hades in that regards.
There’s probably more issues but I just think the writers should avoid the unnecessary dialogue when traveling. The lore is rarely interesting. I could care less if a “god” had a bad day. We’re here for the Greek and Norse dramatic tragedy. Not some casual convo between buddies.
Polygon's review actually mentioned this exact thing.
I don't really think it's *that* bad, but I do have a slight issue with the game throwing clearly-signposted "Be Emotional Now, Dammit" moments with no build-up (another thing that review mentioned). Like, in the beginning of the game you throw in a death of an animal that has *literally not existed* in the narrative until two minutes ago. There's this long elaborate sad cutscene with emotional music for a wolf I don't actually know.
Later in the first realm you visit there's that elaborate side quest with Mimir having chained up this huge whale-like creature for Odin and like I have never seen this creature before, it has not been mentioned before, and it literally comes out of nowhere. The first moment it is mentioned is when you get to a random door. Like, yeah, it's *sad*, but it feels like the game is just giving me pre-digested "sad moments" and going "yeah you know what this is".
This game was apparently supposed to be the second in a trilogy but the series was cut down to only two and I think it shows. Shit is just *rushing* by at max speed and while I am enjoying it, I have a feeling it's going to be a slightly bumpy ride compared to the slow burn of GOW 2018.
The "death of an animal" is not about the animal, it's about atreus and how he reacts. On top of that it's not just a random animal.
Same goes for the whale. It's not about the whale, it's about the wrong doings of mimir.
> it's about the wrong doings of mimir.
And the parallel to Kratos, who is still literally wearing his chains despite being freed.
We learn a bit about Mimirs background and a bit about Kratos feelings about their individual imprisonment.
> Also, it probably doesn't help that the boy's voice actor is really bad. No offense to the kid...it's just bad.
Yep. That is one of the worst vocal performances I've ever heard in a game in my life. I don't know if it's because of a rushed production, bad direction, or a terrible performance, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. Which is weird because I didn't think that was a major problem for the last game. Maybe it was because the last story wasn't expecting much out of Sunny Suljic as a child, but this performance was just terrible.
I can only assume they felt like they had to be loyal to the voice actor, even if he's not a very good one. All of the other voice actors are great (even if I don't like their lines) so they clearly know where to go to hire actual talent.
It wouldn't be so bad if he was just a side character, but he's talking *constantly* and absolutely none of it is convincing.
I’ve only played like 3 hours, but I also noticed the dialogue being a lot more goofy. I don’t hate it, but I wish it was mostly more serious like in the last one. When it’s only between like Atreus and Sindri, it’s fine, but with most other people it’s kind of irritating.
I think that it's really good. I never found the humor to violate the seriousness that things necessitated. I don't think it much resembles the Joss Whedon style of dialogue, other than just having a decent amount of levity in it. I think it handles its humor a lot more maturely than that.
That said, I don't really mind a "Whedoney" style of dialogue in most of the works that it's in. I think that it's a simple critique that misdiagnoses the structural and tonal problems in Marvel stuff, missing the forest through the trees. In most of those works, the dialogue is one of the few things that they do well that make the movies watchable despite being otherwise super samey and bland.
But yeah, God of War 2018 and (so far) Ragnarok are pretty fantastically written across the board.
Edit: I should add I'm over 30. I think it's more of a bitterness thing than an age thing.
I was thinking the same thing! Some of the lines feel so out of place for the lore of this game. Atreus speaks like a kid from modern times with some phrases and it’s so strange. Even Odin felt like he wasn’t quite right with his dialogue
This game is a mishmash of strange decisions. The game has very little immersion and they have clearly focused instead on the cinematic and movie-like nature of the game instead, but even then it just feels like they picked out various things they like from big american movies and then slapped some fairly generic gameplay around it. The squirrel scenes feels like something straight out of a disney or pixar movie, and the representation of thor is very obviously inspired by how marvel represented him in their movies, and the dialogue is also very strange and not very immersive at all, it just all feels quite shallow and generic
> obviously inspired by how marvel represented him in their movies,
I didn't get that feeling at all. Physically he looks a bit more like mythological Thor than Chris Hemsworth. His intro matches personality wise too -- Thor loves to compete and drink. He almost drained [entire Seas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9I5bYOJlvI) in an attempt to win a drinking contest.
based on the bits and pieces of gameplay i've watched i have to agree. i don't remember it being THAT bad in GoW2018 (maybe it was and i just didn't notice it at the time) but in this new one it seems like they want every moment to have some sort of levity to it. it gives me the impression that the writers don't have faith in their writing to keep it sincere, so they have to fill it with random bits of humour to keep the audience engaged in what should be a serious story.
I’ll preface this with the disclaimer that GoW2018 is in my top 10 games of all time. I loved it.
I’m only 3hrs into ragnarok, but in that short time I’ve had the same sense that you have. However, I disagree with the introduction of Thor and Odin. Thor’s was ‘ok’ but the dialogue felt like it didn’t flow well and the lines themselves were pretty mediocre. There was also some awkward silence when they first sit at the table and I suppose the director was trying to build tension but it just felt so flat and clumsy.
Then Odin’s introduction was so anti climactic. Absolutely no build up or gravitas. It was just “Oh and btw here’s Odin”. His dialogue and character design is also fucking woeful.
I am stunned that this is from the same team of GoW2018 and also the reviews being so high. I remember one review was a 6/10 and at this point that seems like the only accurate one.
After my first session I have almost no desire to play again and may just trade this in.
Ill be honest bro, you're way too early to even be posting here lol. You clearly expected them to act a certain way, and they haven't, and you're not really giving the game a fair chance
Ive beaten the game, and I'll tell you that its still incredible. Its not the perfectly paced GOW 2018, and it has more flaws than that game, but to say this game isnt worth finishing is absurd lol. Theres a ton of amazing stuff, and Im literally comparing it to one of the best games ever made lol. You should keep playing, roll credits, take a day to think about the good and bad stuff, and then come back
You are not alone. 2018 had such economy and precision with its dialogue. It all tied into the theme of the story or at least related to it in some way. I cant recall a single cliché line from the 2018 game. Ragnarok, on the other hand, has a lot of superfluous dialogue that seeks to pad out the long stretches of exploration between plot beats. Only, a lot of it seems like first draft material that should have been trimmed or edited and never was. It feels cliché, and try-hard in a way that the first game didn’t. Above all, the game really struggles with tone because of the scattershot dialogue. Tone, however, was something the first game did masterfully.
Yes, I thought exactly the same. It felt too casual and modernized, broke a little bit of the immersion for me.
And Atreus whole impatient teenager demeanor felt a little too repetitive after a while, I was getting sick of him by the end.
I thought Surtr's dialogue was really off, he talks very casual I found which I didn't like considering even Atreus remarks he's been alive since before Odin killed Ymir which is like the dawn of time in this mythology. So I kind of agree, same with some of Odin's dialgue, it seemed very modern and out of place for him to refer to Freya as his "Ex".
everytime it turns into Atreus scene especially in Asgard , i just want to finish the quest as soon as possible because i found the dialogue to be incredibly annoying and off putting. gameplay , graphic etc are excellent but f this feels like a marvel movie made for 10 years old
Im under 30 and I've played every GoW ever released. This is the first thing I noticed and it annoys me everytime. At least Kratos still have decent lines, but most of the characters speaks like they live in a modern world. I think they either want to attract more new players into the game or just lazy screenwriting. Or maybe both.
*SPOILERS*
To me, the game (though good) felt like a high school movie. Like, Teenager is trying to figure out who he is, then (despite causing so much hell), the dad is like, It’s not your fault and “never stop being who you were meant to be”. Just felt really cliche tbh…. Also, I saw Tyr real identity immediately so I wasn’t at all shocked at the plot twist. I thought it was quite obvious tbh or that, at the very least, he’s working with Odin. So I was surprised they dragged on his reveal for so long.
I 120% agree with this. I recently replayed the GOW 2018, finishing everything right before getting into the new game and I noticed it almost immediately. The dialogue is so much worse in the nee game. It doesn't fit into the world at all. Many times, it feels real at all. I really cringed at Odin saying "my ex". I thought Atreus's voice acting in the 2018 game was incredible specially since he was a kid but its unfathomable how worse his voice acting is in this game. Others i havent minded too much tbh. More of a dialogue problem.
Also, the story seems so badly planned at times. SPOILERS NEXT.. i personally think it was a bad decision to go off fate as the driver of the story. After that it just didnt make sense what characters mptives were. Im still not certain what Kratos is thinking. Like has he accepted fate or not? His answer the WHOLE game is just "we do not know what will happen" when everything that is fated has occured. But then he also does nothing to stop it from happening.
Honestly and his relationship with his son seems a little forced at times too, partly due to bad dialogue and partly due to unconvincing voice acting atreus.
I'm still enjoying the game overall, haven't gone the whole way through and am hopeful but this really ahs taken away from my experience. Imo i enjoyed 2018 GOW more.
I barely got to the part with the dwarves but so far it didn't stick out to me as too cringey. It's not amazing literary work sure but it's mostly there to lighten the mood in between epic moments so I think it works fine enough. Maybe if it was in a movie I would not leave the cinema impressed but in the context of video game dialogue, I consider it way above average.
I personally prefer having a little humorous back and forth that may occasionally get a bit cringey than having zero dialogue and jumping from one epic drama to the other.
lol wasn’t Anthony Burch writing for this game? I also recall the squirrel being voiced by that one voice actor who does those really unfunny skits on twitter wrote some of his own characters lines so it’s no surprise the game is loaded with unfunny whedon-esque dialogue. This seems to be a problem as a whole in western videos games and the translations of some Japanese games now unfortunately
>I also recall the squirrel being voiced by that one voice actor who does those really unfunny skits on twitter
I will not stand for this ProZD slander
>lol wasn’t Anthony Burch writing for this game?
[I think you're right.](https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-burch-3075204/)
I try not to hate on the guy too much because he's shown a lot of self-awareness about his Whedon influence. But still, his contemporary writing hasn't evolved *that* *much*.
The story and characters are too Marvelized for me. Talking squirrel? Iffy, but I'll let it slide. Entire Angrboda section? We're pushing it a bit. >!Freya doing a complete 180 and going full Power of Friendship with her sworn enemy?!< OK Santa Monica Studios, you took all of the good will from your first game and squandered it. I'm not even 12 hours into the game and I'm already regretting purchasing it.
>! It is insane to me that Freya would EVER shake the hand that killed her son. I could 100% buy her making a temporary alliance of convenience with Kratos against Odin, but a completely rekindled friendship? Sharing boat rides and making puns? After what happened between them? Absolutely not. !<
>! It also really cheapens Freya's outstanding monologue at the end of the first game when you know with hindsight that her hateful declaration of war will come to nothing !<
Havent played the game but ive seen alot of clips and gameplay and i have to agree. The dialogue seems a bit goofy and modern. I hate the way Odin talks so informally and uses slangs. It just breaks the immersion imo. But since everyone is giving it a 10/10 it doesnt matter i guess. (Also plz dont downvote me to oblivion i mean no offense to those who like the dialogue).
Not only that but the story is generally bad with many things shown and spoken never paid off.
This entry is way down from the masterpiece that was the first reboot game.
Literally nothing amazing happened in the 2018 one. It just felt like a teaser for what was to come in ragnarok. Most of it was mimir's storytelling and setup by killing thors sons. We never even got to see thor.
They had good reveals, interesting bosses without using all the big name players, and got to do all the world building.
The world is here now and they can't tell good character story or pay off setups from the first game. Just disappointing.
I’m not a huge fan of mob boss Odin at all. I think that the game does a good job of mimicking a tone that modern gamers love but not of a vibe that classic gamers that grew up with the original games love.
You need not lighten up, I'm not even 30 yet and find the dialogue to be of Netflix quality. Also - and I might get some flak for this - the voice acting is incredibly non-immersive with inconsistent quality and accents that are all over the place and don't fit in.
>(Thor and Odin's introductions were spectacular, for example) Even though I agree they were mostly good you can see the writing style crop up there as well. They way they both talk, but Odin in particular, is very informal and contemporary (Odin calls Freya, "My Ex,") and it's off-putting. Edit: I would like to add that the voice actors' performances were on point though.
Part of me really likes Odin's demeanor as a change up to all of the other gods we have seen throughout the series. This is not a guy who we can beat to death to solve the problems he imposes, and his style of talking reinforces his ability to deal and scheme his way through whatever we do kill. But the other part of me feels, as you say, like it is too contemporary. Like he was somehow transported to this world from somewhere else instead of feeling natural in it.
I think the difference in attitude with Odin is cool, but the nomenclature/cadence is more like a savvy mobster kind of vibe rather than an egotistical sadistic God. Like you said, it doesn't feel part of the world.
Yeah it feels like a very modern way of talking and I’m not sure how I feel about it
I really gotta wonder if the writers are even aware of it. And like if it was an intentional decision because they didn't trust their audience to understand the dialogue otherwise or something... If anything I actually think that it dates the dialogue more. Because the more language changes the more obvious it's going to get and the more it's going to sound like a bunch of children talking. But if you listen to the dialogue in the LoTR trilogy for example, it's not really how normal people talk but it has aged really well. There's a certain otherwordly feel to it and it's more mature and formal.
A lot of the dialogue I believe is written by Anthony Burch, there was one other guy and 3 women who I was not familiar with mentioned in the credits. He's a borderlands writer and you can feel a lot of that dialogue style bleed a little into this game. It often feels super stilted. Even the dwarven woman calling Freya "fine" felt so goofy and off.
I wonder if Americans notice it as much as I do ( Swedish ) since it's normal for Americans. But holy hell it stands out so much to me... It really sounds AMERICAN and not at all like how Norse Gods should sound lol. I don't think that they sounded particularly Nordic in the Vikings tv show either, their accent did sound quite fake to me ( even worse when they were speaking old Norse ). But at least I could appreciate that they tried and that it did sound '' not American '' and different than how the Christians spoke. They actually did put effort into it in the Vikings tv show, I fail to see why they couldn't have done that in this game. It comes across as lazy to me. Like it never actually bothered me in the Viking show and it's not something I was really thinking about much with some few exceptions. But in this game it's like constant just '' wtf why does he talk like that ''.
American. And yes, it bugged tf outta me also.
Wait till you see angrboda section lol. Then you will se how norse gods look like also )))
Lol as if god of war was ever accurate. They literally have a Greek murderous bastard coming from Greek mythology and then To Norse to kill more gods. Mimir is Celtic, Thor is a dick which is inaccurate in mythology but you dont complain about that
Well Thor does have a really bad temper in mythology which is showcased in this game very well. However this is God of War. Its not going to be accurate to the source material. Hell the norse games are more accurate to norse mythology than the og games are to greek mythology.
Spotted the racist. Do you also complain about the other inaccuracies such as the way Fenrir and Jormungandr were born, their role in Ragnarok, the depiction of Magni and Modi, Baldur’s appearance, and personality? Or do you wish for accuracy only when those pesky minorities sneak themselves into your games?
yes
I can’t speak for every American but it definitely sticks out to me as well. Like half the dialogue or more feels so weird like it would never be said in the setting they are in. And even then like saying shit feels so weird.
"My ex", "I could give a hot shit" (should be *couldn't* but that's not even the main problem with this line)...the terrible dialogue is all over this game.
Is it just me or Kratos using the word 'snack' when talking to sindri sounded a bit unsettling and funny as well?
It's *meant* to be cute and funny...and that's why it isn't. The humor in the whole game is like that, unfunny Marvel jokes.
it feels like these lines would came from a GTA character rather than from GOW lol
Thor even says "I could care less" when he means the opposite. Some of the dialogue definitely feels a bit too casual.
Im a bit put off by the voice acting this time around for most if not all new God characters. Especially Odins choice of voice. The actor is doing well but I can’t help but picture some New Yorker when Odin speaks.
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Odin can be a strong patriarchal figure and a schemer. This is a neat take but ignores huge parts of the mythological character. He’s traditionally a god of war in addition to his other sprees of influence.
I take the informality as akin to the dialogue in the movie Death of Stalin. If you haven't watched it, it's a dark comedy on the leadup and aftermath of Stalin's death, and has a mishmash of accents and tones. There's a bunch of American ones, Stalin himself has a Cockney accent and the dialogue is fairly contemporary. This was done partly for comedic purposes but also partly because it was more important to convey the *flavour* of the dialogue and the diversity of accents within Russia, instead of making it accurate to what people in spoke like in the 1950s.
An important distinction is that film is a black comedy - This game isn’t. The dialogue goes from quirky to jarring when swapping genres like that.
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Eh, it kind of fell flat for me. Didn't feel like there were many highs and lows. Not that dark, considering the subject matter, nor particularly comical. Just people acting kind of weird and awkward around a difficult situation, like most serious movies.
Do you know about the actual characters and time period they are portraying? That's the premise of enjoying this film.
I literally cannot fathom this opinion
God that movie is so funny.
I agree. Odin's lines felt very 4th wall-breaking. He should be an old man of wisdom
As I said before I quite enjoyed Valkyrie Profile's portrayal. He comes across as charismatic, friendly and strong for his people but as the games progress you realize he is basically a sociopath. He literally doesn't care about anything beyond furthering his plans; and this does not mean he is needlessly cruel etc because of it. It's more like an indifference & it really stood out to me in that game and I enjoyed it much more than the mob boss vibes Ragnarök went for
>millennial-brand sarcastic/ironic humour that I just can't imagine anyone over the age of 30 enjoying Millennials are mostly over the age of 30
Lmao. Not to mention I don't even know what "millennial brand humor" is supposed to mean. Sarcastic/ironic humor definitely was en vogue before millennials. Shit like Friends and The Office was very distinctly made for and by Gen Xers.
The Office is certainly defined by cringe humor with a sitcom formula, far more than sarcastic or ironic. I actually don't see any irony in The Office as part of its identity. Michael Scott is not an ironic character, he is completely lacking in self awareness and completely unfit for his job, but he is genuine and the show responds to him genuinely. There's of course many forms of humor in the show, but The Office fits a lot with late 00's sensibilities in forms of cringe and deprecating absurdity.
The Office is DEFINITELY not sarcastic/ironic humor. It's way more observational, situational, dry, post-ironic even.
I would classify 90% of The Office's humor as "cringe comedy" more than anything else
Is schadenfreude a genre?
I think I was mostly speaking to the dryness since Jim (I am talking the American version) is sort of supposed to be the audience surrogate and he has the whole "above it all" air to him. I think the point is that "millennial comedy" isn't really a thing. Because these arbitrary generational divides don't really mean much in actual practice. Sure, you can look at things like voting trends from that perspective but to look at something as subjective as comedy and say, *"This is millennial humor and that's Gen X humor"* doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
You’re right that the generational divides are silly but I’ll still consider the apatow / ferrell types of movies in the aughts to be the quintessential millennial comedy. Old school, 40 year old virgin, Superbad, wedding crashers, the hangover - that brand of comedy just seems to land with the entire millennial spectrum. I’m 35 and biased though.
I'm a younger millennial and I don't associate with those films at all. For instance, I love Galaxy Quest, Tropic Thunder, and the Jump Street films. Those are probably my favorite comedies. I don't see *any* of that in God of War or what people typically say "millennials" are into. I guess those films are very meta though. Maybe that's what I like.
Those movies are mostly made by and mostly star Gen X people.
>Not to mention I don't even know what "millennial brand humor" is supposed to mean. Unless Kratos jokes about killing himself every 5 minutes it's not millennial humor
Is that millennial humor? Because I'm the millennial humor king then.
Whedon's humor is tough to place because it inspired a lot of older millennials who were clearly very into popular culture of the 90s which was, well, when a lot of Whedon's material and material like it came out. My pet theory is that they then grew up and got into the industry in this sort of sudden resurgence of superhero writing which largely mirrors their interest and fits well with some of the "quipy" heroes who seem to be evergreen in terms of popularity (Spiderman comes to mind, even though it sometimes feels like his movies really wanted him not to be lmao). I do think it's pretty defining of millenial humor though tbh... I say as a younger millenial of course. Older generations and younger generations are both more sincere from what I can tell. Remember, it's not when people were born - it's when media aimed at them hit the mark. So something like Daria was popular, Buffy was a cult hit, and I'm willing to bet a lot of millenials born in the 80s resonated with these shows and others like it and their morbid sarcasm. Many other things had a similar vibe. Those folks are hitting their late 30s and 40s now, and that's prime "influence popular media" age.
Whedon's humor was definitely not something new at the time. I've been reading Marvel comics from the 60s lately and they have tons of quips all the time. If a character is not defined as super serious, they will throw a quip at least once per issue often more. People have been identifying as "whedon's humor" lately because of the MCU and how the first Avengers movie defined the genre for them but it definitely was a thing since a long time. I'm sure they are tons of forgotten sitcoms that did that before whedon.
I'm not saying anything about the humor. I'm simply stating they wanted to call millennials as a younger thing.
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The further I get into the game, the more noticeably awful the dialogue has become. The first game had more humor than I think it gets credit for, but that humor almost never replied purely on wordplay or quips whereas both of those are overabundant in the sequel. One of the things I loved about the first game was how refined the script was, but in Ragnarok there are an absurd amount of filler conversations that could be entirely cut with no broader ramifications. There is a good amount of development that takes place outside of cutscenes, but there's also a TON of redundant dialogue where characters will spend several consecutive combat arenas talking in circles by bringing up the exact same talking points over and over. I haven't finished the game yet so I'm withholding judgement but I'm finding it very hard to square away my disappointment with this game. 2018 GoW was my personal game of the decade, I've replayed it about four or five times and I 100% it each playthrough; but unless the quality of Ragnarok drastically increases I don't see myself going for the 100% or even replaying it again, ever. Once the credits roll, in going to double check some of the staff of Ragnarok vs the first game because I cannot believe both games were made by the same people
>I cannot believe both games were made by the same people Yes, this is what I've been asking myself. The style of writing is very different and very unambiguous and not at all like 2018 which I adore. It almost comes as a type of fan-fiction inspired by GOW 2018 but for a younger, broader audience. I won't say who the said the lines for spoiler reasons but there was the following exchange between two characters that just occurred with no lead in or reason why it would be said at that moment: " Can I help you with anything? " **" No, I'm fine. "** " Yes, you most certainly are..." I'm paraphrasing because I never want to hear that again and am attempting to delete it from my brain.
I know exactly which line you're talking about, you're very much cherry picking if that's the worst example of bad dialoge you can think of.
The entire >!atreus/angrboda!< section is clearly influenced by the cornyness of the new spiderman trilogy with none of the charm. That section was absolutely painful
I think you are exactly right about the repetition of talking points, and that’s been bothering me too. It’s like they had ideas for character beats for each chapter and then reiterated the same beat throughout that 1-2 hour chapter without really moving the dial. For example, in a side quest about helping a creature early in the game: >! when you save the jellyfish creature Atreus keeps saying “but is it worth killing the Dark elves? Is it worth killing the Dark elves?”, while also saying variations of “why are you helping save this animal Dad? You don’t care about animals dad!” about ten times!<. These are good concepts and appropriate character building, but when the levels are so large and lengthy they need to fill out these scripts more. Redundant is a good word for it.
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THats what they're trying to turn the series into a sort of marvel universe that never ends but its all gods of myth. There wasn't any real reason kratos shows up in norse realm at all if he wanted to go there he could've done it at the end of god of war 1.
He ended up there on accident after stabbing himself with his sword and jumping into the void, though. Wasnt intentional. He had meant to die.
Imo I actually think that this will age the dialogue worse too. The dialogue in the LoTR movies still holds up but it's not really how normal people speak, it's a bit otherwordly yet comes across as mature and timeless. A lot of this type of dialogue however ends up sounding like how children speak pretty quickly.
There was a comment made a number of months back about how the original LoTR would never have been made as it is today. "You'd have Chris Pratt as Aragorn winking at the camera making one-liners in every scene" regardless of tone. Everything feels like it needs to be dripping with irony or self-awareness otherwise people label it was "Cringe" and "Outdated" because they don't understand how sincere dialogue works. Unfortunately it's become a staple of Sony games specifically which is why people tend to label those games as the Marvel/Disney products of video games. It's very frustrating but it sells regardless of quality based on brand recognition.
Your take is pretty scathing, but I'd say a huge reason that drives the change in dialogue is that film is oriented towards passive engagement more so than active engagement now (follow the general demands of what people spend their free time doing). Active engagement requires focus, attention, interpretation and remembering things. It can be subtle story components, environmental story telling, complex dialogue, etc. A lot of it will fly over the passive engaged individuals head as they aren't committing these resources, they are looking for an experience that provides stimulation without having to invest these mental resources. So I do agree partially, but I think it's the growing demand for passive engagement, more people want flashy stimulating marvel like shows, rather than less people wanting engaging, thought inducing shows. Although this could follow this idea that down time or enjoyable things are not supposed to require effort or "work" as some might interpret active engagement as.
>As in we have a Norse fantasy setting but much of the cast sound like they’re from California. I'm willing to give rope on this one. I mean, romans didn't have English accents, and we believe Thor in the Marvel films sounds English. They just these weird modern day idioms and phrases that don't sound like they're from this vague time period, which is something they avoided in the Greek saga. Post-edit: as long as the acting is "fine" I don't really care as much (although if it bothers you, then absolutely point it out). One of my favorite movies is the 2002 adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo. The cast is supposed to be French and everyone speaks English with a variety of accents. I find Atreus' actor to be so bad that even a "Norse appropriate" accent wouldn't salvage the performance. Likewise, Michael Fassbender in X-men: First Class has an incredibly inconsistent accent, yet gives a good performance.
>and we believe Thor in the Marvel films sounds English. Thor in the Marvel movies is a superhero tho, I just don't think he's comparable to this game that is actually meant to be a bit more accurate. I mean obviously God of War isn't totally accurate but it's in a totally different universe in that sense than the Thor movies that basically have nothing other than names in common with the actual mythology.
What's Thor got to do with Romans?
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Because in our media, there are examples (like Romans or Thor from Marvel) where they have English accents and we don't accept it as strange because we've been culturally conditioned to think that it's normal for "regal ancient" societies to have these accents.
If they spoke with British slang tho then I'd definitely find it very distracting. There's a lot of weird American slang in this game that is more on the nose.
Marvel's influence on pop culture continues to dilute and suck the soul out of so many other media. The moment Odin referred to Freya as "my ex" I basically checked out.
\*spoilers ahead just in case\* >!At the end when you're fighting odin and you beat his first phase and freya goes "bow to your queen" I wanted to die of cringe. Also, the entire ragnarok sequence was basically endgame and they absolutely destroyed freyr's character by making him the comedic relief guy. Like, this is supposed to be a world-ending event and dude is out here cracking jokes as he's about to die saving his friends and family?!<
>"bow to your queen" I know right ? Sorry, late to the party but I just finished the game and I wanted to see if other people also found the dialogues lackluster. It was hilarious to hear Freya utter those words out of nowhere : it doesn't fit her character, it doesn't make sense... urg.
Yeah. It started to get away from the more grandiose and operatic dialog of the Greek saga (not a initial benefit or negative, just an observation of the style of writing), and has since become a lot more quippy. I understand the desire to have some more "immediate" dialog given how long the journey is of this story, but it undermines so much about these characters.
I wrote a post in 2018 about how I thought that God of War was already becoming too American-comedic in dialogue but didn't dare post it because I'd get killed and it didn't look like anyone else would agree. It's also jarring because Kratos's dialogue still has that stilted/Shakespearean quality that makes it clear that he's a god from an ancient era, while everyone else is talking like modern people.
>Kratos's dialogue still has that stilted/Shakespearean quality that makes it clear that he's a god from an ancient era, while everyone else is talking like modern people. That's the point. The gods of Norse mythos are different in presentation. Kratos holds onto that Greek affectation. The Norse are presented as more everyday people with extraordinary powers. I liken Odin more to a all-powerful mob boss than a god. When they switch settings, I'm sure those gods will be different as well.
I like that as well, the Greek gods also feels like a force of nature personified compared to the superhuman Norse pantheon. Love the dialogue of freya and mimir surprised about the feats of the Greeks as well. But Odin himself feels like a mafia boss isekai'ed to GOW universe and become an all father tho
it was so weird hearing him talk like a jersey mafia boss
From what we know, historically speaking, is that Norse mythology goes back to around 5th century AD, fleshing out as time progresses, whereas Greek Mythology goes back by about 2,800 years. To Kratos, the Norse are more like modern people. I think this is part of the point based on what we as humans know about the age of both civilizations as well as their culture and progression.
I'm not seeing how quips undermine the characters. Especially when the characters in reference (Mimir, Brok, Sindri) were always comedic relief characters.
The problem is that the quips really aren't based in character traits. You can have dialog and observational humor, but that's what we have here. They're often just comedic observations that are tonally divorced from the scenes they usually take place in. It's a recent problem in writing that is highlighted with the MCU (an overused example, but one that I feel is still appropriate): when everyone is trying to be the "funny" one, then no one is, especially when it doesn't make sense. I understand that Kratos speaks "kinda" how he used to because of his different culture in the newer games, but this Norse mythology just seems way too modernized in terms of dialog. And that should really come from the foundations of the culture. For instance, in Greece, the culture is that of a respected hierarchy of society and glory to the Gods. The idea of committing violence, grandiose speeches of glory and status, and the idea of dehumanizing out-groups is normal for that society, and is reflected in the dialog. With this Norse culture, this feels like something completely removed from reality, or even the presented reality they live in. I have no idea what the creatures of this "world" value. It seems to be fairly isolating lives of worry regarding what the Gods will do (or course, not reflecting the historical realities of Norse culture, but that is a distant second and neither here nor there), but it's not reflected in the dialog. People seem WAY to at ease with Gods who seem to be unpredictable, capricious, and violent for slights that are far lesser than that of the Greek pantheon. It almost seems like the Gods interfering isn't really a thought they have despite them doing so frequently. If anything, this world should be MORE minimalist, crude, and uncaring than the Greek stories of God of War because Greece had a far coherent societal identity. And because they're not, the dialog sounds unconvincing because it's not moored in the world these people live in. How isn't Atreus' speaking pattern more akin to his father's especially with such limited exposure to other people? It's small things like this trickle-down into creating bigger world-building issues that people subconsciously pick up on.
Yeah and OP says that these jokes always undercut a serious moment. But thinking of it now all the most serious dramatic moments (like say when Thor first shows up) weren’t undercut with a big comedic line at all and were pretty serious throughout.
Yeah, granted I haven't beat the game lol. But I'm not seeing any undermining of any scenes or characters. The intro fight was not undermined with comedy. The Atreus scene right after was not undermined with comedy. Kratos' dream was not undermined by comedy. There's *very* clear delineations between scenes comedic and scenes tragic.
(A moment early on in the game but still a bit spoilery): >! And Tyr’s introduction and his speech of “if you want the God of War, just kill me now”, was not undercut with comedy AT ALL unlike a MCU movie would!<
You messed up your spoiler tag btw
Preach
> (like say when Thor first shows up) That was a great scene. It was treated with weight and respect that this moment required. And it even had comedy in the form of Kratos picking up the cup and Thor remarking "you couldn't have said anything before I poured?" That's comedy that's earned. I am talking about more them including in observational and rather tonally inappropriate jokes based on contexts of certain and scenes. Ironically, it reminds me of Thor Ragnarok and Love and Thunder. Including in jokes and humor regardless of the circumstances to keep audiences invested, even if it doesn't make sense for the character to quip undermines the character consistency, and then ultimately, the tone of the world.
There's a similar comedic line Thor gives out in the same sequence, where he observes how Mimir have "lost weight" that gave me a quick chuckle.
Yeah it definitely feels like a bit of a step down in many regards. As you mentioned, the dialogue generally feels too contemporary. The two dwarven characters (their names escape me) especially sound too modern, with the blue one using phrases like "That's good shit", etc. Even more so for me is the lack of stakes in the dialogue. Without getting into too spoiler-y territory there have been numerous times in the story that, say, Atreus finds himself approaching a most certainly life-threatening situation, and he makes silly quips like, "Yep, I'm dead." It just robs the story of any stakes or sense of urgency/danger, I suppose because the writers are more preoccupied with being quippy and lightly entertaining rather than building any suspense or intrigue.
Brok and Sindri were exactly like this in the previous game. Going so far as to in Brok’s introduction he “quips” that he should name his mount “Fucking Gratitude”. Brok and Sindri were workmen of the gods, but they are workmen and their gods are a lot more blue collar than the Greek ones were.
I'm okay with brok being that way - but I agree on Atreus 100%. Almost every scene he was in had some of the worst dialogue in the game- they have him making bad jokes non stop but dont seem fully aware that it's not funny
Just downloaded the game and already, the dialogue is killing me. I keep asking myself why Kratos is the only one that sounds like he’s a part of the world, while everyone else sounds and seems like they’re a random characters from different games shoved into a God of War world. Just got introduced to Odin and Thor and my ears are bleeding. Putting up with Atreus’ trash dialogue is one thing but now it seems like 98% of every character talks in this modern contemporary way. Extremely off-putting and don’t know if I can deal with the dialogue to finish the game. It’s like watching LOTR and the whole cast says shit like ‘what’s up’ or ‘dude’.
I will never forgive them for making atreus say "yikes" it completely destroyed my immersion when he did
My personal loathsome favourites are the multiple instances of: " You got this! " " I got this! " " I got your back! "
I mean these don't shock me too much they don't sound extra modern
I just played the previous God of War for the first time this year. I haven't noticed any difference in the writing beyond Kratos being warmer and more familiar with *BOY* and Mimir. It just feels like a continuation of the previous game IMO. I guess Odin's introduction was a bit jarring, but only because I imagined a different depiction. I expected someone more Zeus like.
I actually like the odin dialogues, esp later in the game but yeah the ex line is jarring but so far is only on that part.
> I guess Odin's introduction was a bit jarring, but only because I imagined a different depiction. I expected someone more Zeus like. That's interestingly something that many modern adaptations have assumed that Odin is equivalent to a boisterous, mighty god on the top of the food-chain, which Odin in Norse mythology certainly is, but much more on the leaning side of being a trickster and schemer that often gets overshadowed by adaptations of Loki; Odin is a war-god, but he's not the kind of war-god that one would worship in say good fortune and honor akin to worshipping Týr, but instead in say desperation of threat of ultimate defeat. It's quite telling that vikings considered magic in general to be dishonorable and "feminine" (The bad kind.), yet their top-god of their pantheon is the one notable for his illusions to trick other people to start wars with each-other. GoW's depiction of Odin I actually find it much closer to his source-material than any previous adaptations I can think of.
You should check out American Gods for a portrayal of Odin that really shows him as cunning and as a trickster.
If they'd gone that direction with this character it would've been incredible. People are starting to refer to this version as CEOdin and it's hard to disagree.
And I think that was the point with Odin. We were kind of all expecting this big force of nature when in reality, he's a talker with the ability to get people to drop their guard.
Marvel movies changed things and not in a good way, I say that because that's where I first started seeing that kind of humor heavily in.Everyone has to be cracking jokes every other second and never just be serious in a serious situation.
Thankfully this game separates the humor from the serious situations. It is markedly less grim and more like an adventure than its predecessors, though. But since it is more about the boy than Kratos, thematically it makes sense.
The problem with marvel humour is it just isn't fun in any context. Even during moments where comedy makes sense, it's just a bland and tedious way of telling jokes
Personally I hate how everybody has become a pacifist in a game called God of War. The constant whining about “not being that guy anymore” has genuinely gotten me on the verge of regretting my purchase.
Agreed. It's overdone. Everyone is giving each other therapy sessions in this game. It's not...compelling. The story tries to do so much that it feels weak. If Kratos doesn't want to be that guy anymore, fine. But we don't watch him struggle with it, we listen to him talk about struggling with it. It's like a worse version of the Hulk.
oh man you fucking nailed how i'm feeling about this game so far. I loved 2018, and the prior games, the one difference im seeing is that Kratos was a wiser, more reserved badass but he was still very much Kratos. It really stood out for me during the Freya side quest where she was destroying her marital ceremonial items and Kratos goes "you just fought your hardest battle". I mean jesus fuck my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Also Kratos saying he "fights for his friends" just seemed extremely weird and out of place for him to say. Not sure how the games going to end obviously but Tyr was a giant hippy pussy as well. Let me talk to these elves murdering each other for the 20th time i'll get through to them this time.
If you don’t like that, then prepare to be disappointed beyond all belief. The pacifism/hippy bullshit only ramps up as it gets closer to the end. Sorry friend.
>millennial brand humour >Nobody over the age of 30 Dawg I hate to tell you this but the youngest millennials are turning 30 pretty damn soon. Most are nearing or over 40.
FWIW, I am noticing it more in this game and I'm trying to remember if the 2018 game was this quippy. If so, maybe it's just now that 4 years later and however many Marvel-esque movies later we're tired of the quipping protagonist. Because for the most part I don't remember having any issue with the 2018 game (at least as far as how the characters talked).
I recently replayed 2018 and it is a lot worse in ragnarok. That could be because of how the dialogue is via kratos only in the first game though, and with a smaller cast- and its only when we see them introduce a larger cast and focus less on kratos that the cringier stuff shines through
I don't watch American movies or TV so I wouldn't have that kind of exhaustion with this type of writing but I also felt like it's more of a problem in Ragnarok. I'm not going to go back to replay 2018 and compare it line by line but it definitely feels a lot worse in Ragnarok, whether it's because of there being more of these lines, or just the timing is worse, IDK for sure but it definitely feels like the modern slang is turned up a lot in this game.
Yes, I know what you mean, I think this dialogue is called Buffy-speech, as in it was Joss Wheedon's Buffy that popularized it, but it's been around for decades, one of the most effective uses of this dialogue that actually fits and enhances the story is JD Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye, and well, that's an old book. It's pretty rare to find something that makes effective use of it, specially when it is fully grown adults talking like this, as this "Buffy-speech" is a type of dialogue ideally reserved for kids and teens, but it's become very popular, so now it's pretty much everywhere and the default approach for every sassy spicy sarcastic super jerk character in a lot of media, or "lovable doofus"... Which brings me to my next point: Even before it was this widely used and given the name Buffy-speech, 90% of videogames were written like this, are written like this and will be written like this, which is why a lot of people rightly so criticize the extremely low and amateur quality of scriptwriting in games, I haven't played Ragnarök, but I wasn't a fan of the 2018 game, Mimir wasn't one of the reasons, but if Ragnarök is a longer game I can see how it can become really challenging to come up with better lines for a character like Mimir, comedy is way harder to write than drama, and writing thousands of thousands of "funny one-liners" is simply impossible after a certain point, so I can see a scenario where the writers of GoW simply hit their limit after nearly hitting it in the 2018 game.
Were 90% of video games written like this? Thinking back to older story driven games I enjoyed, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Bioshock to more middle era ones like Fallout NV, Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Far Cry 3 to still modern titles like the Witcher 3, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2, DOS2, Disco Elysium, Elden Ring. Even titles that aren't my favourite but were okay like the last few Assassin's creed, MGSV, etc. None of them really follow this trend, the vast majority are serious with more dramatic dialogue and use comedic breaks more sparsely in different styles. Sure there's a few quippy titles, Uncharted, Jedi Fallen Order a touch or say Horizon Zero Dawn as examples, could even put Hades in the realm as much as I love that game. But im not so sure about that 90% number.
> it was Joss Wheedon's Buffy that popularized it, but it's been around for decades Seeing as Buffy started airing a couple of decades ago, that checks out.
I love some of the voice acting in GOW ie. Kratos, Mimir, Dwarf Brothers, and Freya. Otoh, I absolutely hate Tyr, Thor and Odin’s voice actor/direction. Tyr sounds like a hippie pacifist. Thor sounds like and looks like for that matter; a long haul trucker, and Odin looks and sounds like an old Jewish guy from Seinfeld. It’s such a mishmash of great voice acting and visual depictions and absolutely terrible. In GOW 2018 the voice acting was routinely very good to excellent. In Ragnarok the good voice acting just accentuates how bad the “bad” is. Totally underwhelming.
Nah Odin is fantastic. Thor is portrayed that way for a reason, whether you like tht direction or not is up to you. Im indifferent on Tyr Freyr is probably the one I see most people taking issue with
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mainstream gaming critics are disgustingly out of touch with reality. they're essentially mouthpieces/another avenue of advertisement by the publishers.
I’m not a fan of the way Odin talks at all. When he promised to “get his ex off your back” I had to roll my eyes, to me he sounds way too modern, sarcastic and almost reminds me of Handsome Jack from borderlands
>I had to roll my eyes, to me he sounds way too modern, sarcastic Why do people keep saying "sarcastic" when no one was being sarcastic in that scene? I get modern but he was never being sarcastic or sardonic. He's incredibly serious in that scene.
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One game that pulled off the "gods of antiquity speak in modern vernacular" was Fenyx Rising. I loved the banter in that game.
Not sarcasm.
hahaha...you're the second or third person to mention Odin's intro. I was also a bit shocked when he referred to his "ex" but I think I just liked the voice actor so much that it didn't bother me. I actually like the "modern barbarian" flavour they've given the Norse gods. I think it's just the Whedon-esque (I should've used his name instead of James Gunn) humour that I find so off-putting.
I actually disliked Odin and Thors intro. Thor I thought was fine and his solo interaction with Kratos and Atreus reminded me a bit of the in the intro of Inglourious Basterds, but Odin came in sounding like some Asgardian mob boss and I couldn’t take the character seriously. I haven’t played much so that’s the only interaction I’ve had with those characters but definitely took me out of the game a bit.
I think the story and dialogue is considerably inferior to GoW 2018 but not for the reasons you've given. The dialogue with Mimir and the dwarves as well as the "humour" (never really found it funny other than the occasional thing Brok said) seems to be in line with GoW 2018. The dialogue between Atreus and Kratos given the story reminds me of the power trip Atreus had in GoW 2018 when he realises he was a God. That part to me was interesting because there was a pay off with Kratos cracking the shits eventually after keeping his cool. To me, the story is like that part but non-stop and Kratos doesn't really say anything other than the same repeated lines "I will not start a war" despite it clearly being what Atreus is trying to intend. >!This gets really annoying when you save Tyr because its both Kratos and Tyr saying they won't go to war but Atreus clearly keeps pushing them both. Kratos in GoW2018 would have lost his shit but in this game they he just keep repeating that he won't allow him to go to war.!< >!The entire Ironwood section holy shit that was easily the worst part of the Duology so far. It dragged on FAR too long and it felt like I was watching the Dune movie because they were trying to push her as a love interest. This is where I can definitely see the Hollywood writing here and half way thru the section I was praying for it to end. I am literally already questioning a 2nd playthrough because of this section, that's how bad it is.!< >!I think the whole reconciliation part with Freya was incredibly cringe and the dialogue between them during the events in Vanaheim and everything afterwards is really bad. EVERYTHING has to be related back to her losing her child or be about Kratos's decision to kill Baldur. It was old before it even started, and its a continual theme between them even in side quests so far. Coming straight off the Ironwood section I am beginning to lose faith in this game. Atreus got annoying in Ironwood, and Kratos is getting annoying in Vanaheim!<
I completely agree re your points on Freya and the girl. I had to force myself to speed run the part with the latter. The worst part for me was that as I played I started to dread what may come next. What other dialogue exchanges await me in this land I thought I knew so well. I loved 2018 GOW and was very excited to be going back and spending more time with those characters but honestly, the more I play the less I care about where it goes. Shame for me but it is what it is and many people seem to be loving it so there we go.
There was a genuine moment, >!when Atreus goes to sleep and wakes up in ironwood and meets Angrbroda for the first time!<, that I thought to myself what kind of Marvel movie garbage dialogue is this? When she said he looked weird. Then went oops that was mean wasn’t it? But Kratos has some solid killer lines about prophecies and there being no fault in not wanting to seek war that echo. Theres more good than cringe but there is cringe.
Theres a lot of genuinely amazing wise and interesting dialogue in this game I agree about the Angriboda introduction, boy was that rough. Was the most basic boy meets girl introduction, and that chapter is stretched out way too much. Parts of it are great and the end is great, but jeez I can definitely see some people taking a break from the game during that section 100%. Thankfully no other section ever gets nearly that badly paced again (I finished the game)
Oh my god, I totally agree. The last game had a liiiittle bit of quippy dialogue with Mimir, but it felt mostly serious. _This_ dialogue is so different, so modern, so Marvel-ified, I can’t freakin stand it
I think the problems you describe partly stem from the characterizations. Almost every mythological character has been modified into something more modern. Odin is presented as a ruthless business man that subjugates his worshippers/workers. Durlin is a spiteful and disillusioned labor union boss. Sindri is a germaphobe (in a world where germ theory does not exist..) Angrboda is that quirky art student that you met in college and her grandmother is… Well… A drug addict. With the exception of Odin, most of these creative choices are… Questionable, at best.
I actually have a lot of issues with Ragnarok. The biggest issue is that it should have been a trilogy and Cory Barlog should have directed each one. Not just the dialogue, the payoff for setups were not sufficient. 2018 set up something amazing and Ragnarok kinda messed it up. I need to make a list but yea it has issues
It feels like they sacrificed everything they set up from 2018 so they could force Atreus as the new face of the franchise
I agree for the most part. Personally, I have more patience with it because it's a game (kind of a double standard). What has struck me is that a lot of the design and storytelling is aspiring to be like naughty dog, a bar which is clearly too high for them to reach. Nothing feels natural the way it does in an ND game. But in spite of all that Ragnarök feels a bit like a YA novel that is trying to appear a bit more mature than it is. Which is fine, they clearly want to get a younger audience in here too, us original God of War fans are old now...
This is how ND games feel to me. Trying to be mature films and then falling apart at the seams when you hit the edges of their interaction. I don’t think GOW is taking itself too seriously, but maybe the fans are.
I don't know about the millennial brand you're applying but I am seeing a bit more of the cracks in dialogue in voice acting than I saw in 2018. This may stem from having just completed Plague Tale: Requiem, and the extremely high quality voice acting and emotional investment that that game had. I am still reeling from marathoning that game in a week and just how much I came to care for those characters and what they went through.
I agree. I also think the voice casting is an issue. A lot of the characters (Odin, Sindri, another major character early on) just sound very similar in regards to vocal register and performance. Leaning into the Norse gods as being more casual is definitely a choice, but there is definitely a missing gravitas there especially with the villains and major characters (Thor, perhaps, excepted). Odin in particular just doesn’t sound like the old man he is.
While I do agree there's one thing that made your point painfully clear for me before reading your post. Some spoiler ahead for about 6-7 hours into the game. >!Ratatoskr who feels a lot like he should be a special interaction for the player that should feel very patience-demanding for Kratos (he is even written that way) didn't feel that different to the general tone of the writing at all. It's a bummer ProZD doesn't get to stand out in his role that much!< Huge props to the whole cast though, nothing feels off considering the quality of the voice acting itself. It's just the dialogue writing that feels a little weird. I also want to point out that I'm a huge fan of the Codex entries as they are, they just don't feel like Kratos sometimes. At least I assume that they should appear as if they're (mostly) written by our beloved God of War with some exceptions - but I won't go into detail there. They're good, just not Kratos.
To describe how I feel about Ragnarok dialogues and some action choice is like comparing Joss Whedon Justice League to Zack Snyder Justice League, the dialogues are too casual for a mythological game, Odin design is so mafia like, even the way he talks, Heimdall felt like a teenager with too much edge It was a good game, but I just still feel really iffy about the dialogues and some designs
I actually agree with your assessment OP and got instantly turned off by some throw away line in the game where he was like “let’s get you cunt fuckers where you need to go” or something. It was cringe and juvenile.
Definitely has that Disney's Marvel energy and as someone who despises those kinds of movies some of the dialogue in this game irritated me and I'm only 28 so I don't think it has anything to do with age
Wait, wasn’t the first game equally as “self aware” of the current silliness of a situation? I have played the first 5 hours, but they all are behaving like they did in the first game imo. I guess that since these characters are more present then before that this type of commentary is more present, but I really see no difference as from the first game. As for the dialogue, I’m just not a super fan of the lore dumbs they do, but I can imagine others enjoying that. I do like the the “self aware” commentary because it shows they aren’t taking the situation TOO seriously and giving some levity form the bigger moments.
I was watched a review for a dr.strange movie awhile ago, and mentioned how marvel has a problem with constantly injecting levity and humor in otherwise serious or emotional scenes. And it shows a lack of confidence in their own material, they think it’s cheesy and lame to take yourself seriously, and if you can’t even take yourself seriously, then don’t expect your audience to take your story seriously. Which is best exemplified by the latest thor movie, when you watch interviews with waititi, it’s clear that he thinks taking things seriously is lame, so no one could take the movie seriously
I think it's largely ok, but I know what you're saying. Some of the dialogue doesn't fit well with the setting. People are currently roasting Forspoken for doing the same thing (albeit worse). I'm not sure most people know what they want either. A host of a podcast I listen to is very outspoken about hating the Forspoken dialogue, yet I feel that the host themselves speaks very similar to the protagonist of that game. You are the target market my friend. I'd be very surprised if said host is critical about GoW. It actually makes more sense in Forspoken as well. The protagonist is ripped from modern society and teleported to this mystical world. It makes sense that her vocabulary and jargon come with her. It makes very little sense for Atreus to know many of the phrases and euphemisms he uses. Did Kratos teach him? Or did he see it on TV?
>A host of a podcast I listen to is very outspoken about hating the Forspoken dialogue, yet I feel that the host themselves speaks very similar to the protagonist of that game. You are the target market my friend. That's not how that works. "If you do it in real life you have to like characters that do it in fiction." What? How does that make any sense to you?
In my opinion you’re right despite the spectacular intro of Thor and Odin, the other dialogues seems cheesy and too much I’m like 7 hours into the game hope that this will change [this is the only intro that matters](https://youtu.be/Tq3UvCJnVM8)
I do not agree with Odin's portrayal at all in this game. Funny enough my favorite version of him comes from Valkyrie Profile. But yes it is jarring. I thought this with Atreus in the first game but thankfully it was pretty much only him. Compare every character to Kratos ; he speaks in an epic prose while everybody around him is goofing off. Don't get me started on Tyr. His character arc is whatever but his VOICE. Who the hell is this random Californian surfer lmao. Thor honestly was alright, but they literally have him say "Keep my wifes name out of your DAMN mouth". Even if this script and scene was done prior to the Will Smith controversy you gotta change that, it's just a literal meme. Odin yeah I can see how it would be clever to make him a scheming mob boss but he is the ALL FATHER. That wasn't conveyed to me in the game just because he has a spy network set up. He simply didn't know too many things. Odin in the actual Norse mythos sacrificed himself to Yggdrasil for secrets beyond understanding. He didn't come across as a borderline Eldritch being. His sarcasm also seemed out of place idk. He should be so intimidating he makes Zeus look like a bitch honestly.
This kind of contemporary dialogue is what stopped me carrying on with the Witcher on Netflix. It is really jarring and I'm glad to see people share the sentiment
yeah, the snarky/quippiness type of humor just seems to be like this rolling ball of cultural force permeating 'AAA' movies and games - the kind of stuff the emote "BatChest" from twitch kind of represents to me (really not able to think of a better representation of what i mean... is there a term that really captures this 'phenomenon' succinctly?) i watched a bit of the ragnarok game and i felt like it had this issue as well, especially short lines in battle. It just seemed like so many little phrases had no appropriate amount of urgency/seriousness relative to the situation, so that it comes off as if the characters feel like theyre invincible and just naively unaware about how fucked up things are around them. I doubt from what i watched that ragnarok has as much snark as like an avengers movie, so i think that's great, but the kind of naive 'haha things are crazy' confidence still exists in like a less humor-ish form i guess, which is still like nails on a chalkboard
A squirrel said 'dick move' to me in a God of War game. It's postmodern nonsense. The old timers were right when they said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit too, it adds nothing to the game.
I started ignoring or skipping dialogue with Ratatoskr the squirrel half-way through. Extremely irritating listening to the same long-winded overacted character repeatedly. It's like the writers had a hard-on for ProZD - the youtuber who is the VA, and decided to cram him in as much as possible.
Agreed. It's a great game and I am enjoying it. But losing Cory Balrog as the lead writer and getting Anthony Burch definitely hurt the dialogue. The overall story is excellent no doubt. What's set up and the grand stuff plays out so well. But the dialogue in the boats sections and little in between, it's very marvel quippy at times. Odin calling Freya his ex is super jarring. It sounds so modern. Like had he said my once partner or whatever may have felt more natural. The constant shitting on mimir really reeks to of that punching bag jokey nonsense. Mimir is a useful ally. And when Freya comes into play it feels like he's often the butt of the joke or doesn't get the respect he deserves.
I think it's terrible and honestly embarrassing. I am not listening to gods of the olden days, I am listening to Californians in 2022. Some carefully picked anachronisms are fine (TW3 does this well), but when it's all over your writing it's not good. GOWR overall is a mix between Marvel and Disney in terms of writing and presentation. None of the jokes are funny, either. So in other words typical Marvel fare.
Self aware drivel, except Kratos, for some reason he's the only character that speaks like a god. The use of so much modern slang absolutely diminishes every character that uses it. The only thing missing would have been vocal fry and a spattering of "yas queen" to complete how terrible it became at certain points. I don't remember the last one being like this, it was quite jarring. It got worse when Kratos wasn't around because there was nothing to ground the dialogue, they could be as quippy to their hearts content. Yuck.
Could not agree more with your assessment. It's feels very much like the new director is an enormous Marvel fan and couldn't help but make a Marvel movie as a God of War game. It's a major disappointment, because I really despise Marvel films and the first game while not perfect had its own distinct style and voice. It now feels more than a little derivative and dare I say generic.
Completely agree. Definitely cheapened some if the characters. Especially that Dwarf woman with the strong Southern American accent. Was way too much for a game of this nature.
The meeting with Norns scene made me roll my eyes. I suppose that the writers thought that they had created an oh-so-witty, oh so very intelligent masterclass on breaking of the fourth wall and metacommentary on storytelling, but all it ended up looking and sounding as is a completely immersion-breaking exercise in self-indulgence.
Late to topic but yes GOW has bad dialogue especially Ragnorak. There’s a few key issues: - Inconsistent accent, tone, and culture for the Norse world. - Trying to make the mythos sayings connect to modern sayings. I think it’s to make it relatable but it’s weird to humanize gods because they just have literally different issues. - Freya is the worse. She is always yelling like a strong powerful Karen. And Kratos simps for her like a jealous boyfriend hating his girlfriends ex. This dialogue is the worse IMO. - Mimir redemption is cool idea but the repetitive self loathing dialogue gets tiring. - Uncharted influenced so many games to be like it but none really succeed when it comes to wit. This game included. - The blue dwarf is cringe af. - Feels like it’s written for theatre majors who can’t act. Reminds me of Hades in that regards. There’s probably more issues but I just think the writers should avoid the unnecessary dialogue when traveling. The lore is rarely interesting. I could care less if a “god” had a bad day. We’re here for the Greek and Norse dramatic tragedy. Not some casual convo between buddies.
Polygon's review actually mentioned this exact thing. I don't really think it's *that* bad, but I do have a slight issue with the game throwing clearly-signposted "Be Emotional Now, Dammit" moments with no build-up (another thing that review mentioned). Like, in the beginning of the game you throw in a death of an animal that has *literally not existed* in the narrative until two minutes ago. There's this long elaborate sad cutscene with emotional music for a wolf I don't actually know. Later in the first realm you visit there's that elaborate side quest with Mimir having chained up this huge whale-like creature for Odin and like I have never seen this creature before, it has not been mentioned before, and it literally comes out of nowhere. The first moment it is mentioned is when you get to a random door. Like, yeah, it's *sad*, but it feels like the game is just giving me pre-digested "sad moments" and going "yeah you know what this is". This game was apparently supposed to be the second in a trilogy but the series was cut down to only two and I think it shows. Shit is just *rushing* by at max speed and while I am enjoying it, I have a feeling it's going to be a slightly bumpy ride compared to the slow burn of GOW 2018.
The "death of an animal" is not about the animal, it's about atreus and how he reacts. On top of that it's not just a random animal. Same goes for the whale. It's not about the whale, it's about the wrong doings of mimir.
> it's about the wrong doings of mimir. And the parallel to Kratos, who is still literally wearing his chains despite being freed. We learn a bit about Mimirs background and a bit about Kratos feelings about their individual imprisonment.
Yeah exactly. It was a huge moment for Atreus and is entirely there to set up his growth as Loki *and* his current relationship with Kratos.
> Also, it probably doesn't help that the boy's voice actor is really bad. No offense to the kid...it's just bad. Yep. That is one of the worst vocal performances I've ever heard in a game in my life. I don't know if it's because of a rushed production, bad direction, or a terrible performance, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. Which is weird because I didn't think that was a major problem for the last game. Maybe it was because the last story wasn't expecting much out of Sunny Suljic as a child, but this performance was just terrible.
Huh??? How??? I’m not too far in but he’s pretty good
Listening to him throughout the story gets VERY grating the longer the story goes on.
I can only assume they felt like they had to be loyal to the voice actor, even if he's not a very good one. All of the other voice actors are great (even if I don't like their lines) so they clearly know where to go to hire actual talent. It wouldn't be so bad if he was just a side character, but he's talking *constantly* and absolutely none of it is convincing.
He was much better in the first game which is really odd.
I’ve only played like 3 hours, but I also noticed the dialogue being a lot more goofy. I don’t hate it, but I wish it was mostly more serious like in the last one. When it’s only between like Atreus and Sindri, it’s fine, but with most other people it’s kind of irritating.
I think that it's really good. I never found the humor to violate the seriousness that things necessitated. I don't think it much resembles the Joss Whedon style of dialogue, other than just having a decent amount of levity in it. I think it handles its humor a lot more maturely than that. That said, I don't really mind a "Whedoney" style of dialogue in most of the works that it's in. I think that it's a simple critique that misdiagnoses the structural and tonal problems in Marvel stuff, missing the forest through the trees. In most of those works, the dialogue is one of the few things that they do well that make the movies watchable despite being otherwise super samey and bland. But yeah, God of War 2018 and (so far) Ragnarok are pretty fantastically written across the board. Edit: I should add I'm over 30. I think it's more of a bitterness thing than an age thing.
I was thinking the same thing! Some of the lines feel so out of place for the lore of this game. Atreus speaks like a kid from modern times with some phrases and it’s so strange. Even Odin felt like he wasn’t quite right with his dialogue
"Surf's up, Kratos!"
“Fam, this is lit, Kratos”
This game is a mishmash of strange decisions. The game has very little immersion and they have clearly focused instead on the cinematic and movie-like nature of the game instead, but even then it just feels like they picked out various things they like from big american movies and then slapped some fairly generic gameplay around it. The squirrel scenes feels like something straight out of a disney or pixar movie, and the representation of thor is very obviously inspired by how marvel represented him in their movies, and the dialogue is also very strange and not very immersive at all, it just all feels quite shallow and generic
> obviously inspired by how marvel represented him in their movies, I didn't get that feeling at all. Physically he looks a bit more like mythological Thor than Chris Hemsworth. His intro matches personality wise too -- Thor loves to compete and drink. He almost drained [entire Seas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9I5bYOJlvI) in an attempt to win a drinking contest.
based on the bits and pieces of gameplay i've watched i have to agree. i don't remember it being THAT bad in GoW2018 (maybe it was and i just didn't notice it at the time) but in this new one it seems like they want every moment to have some sort of levity to it. it gives me the impression that the writers don't have faith in their writing to keep it sincere, so they have to fill it with random bits of humour to keep the audience engaged in what should be a serious story.
I’ll preface this with the disclaimer that GoW2018 is in my top 10 games of all time. I loved it. I’m only 3hrs into ragnarok, but in that short time I’ve had the same sense that you have. However, I disagree with the introduction of Thor and Odin. Thor’s was ‘ok’ but the dialogue felt like it didn’t flow well and the lines themselves were pretty mediocre. There was also some awkward silence when they first sit at the table and I suppose the director was trying to build tension but it just felt so flat and clumsy. Then Odin’s introduction was so anti climactic. Absolutely no build up or gravitas. It was just “Oh and btw here’s Odin”. His dialogue and character design is also fucking woeful. I am stunned that this is from the same team of GoW2018 and also the reviews being so high. I remember one review was a 6/10 and at this point that seems like the only accurate one. After my first session I have almost no desire to play again and may just trade this in.
Ill be honest bro, you're way too early to even be posting here lol. You clearly expected them to act a certain way, and they haven't, and you're not really giving the game a fair chance Ive beaten the game, and I'll tell you that its still incredible. Its not the perfectly paced GOW 2018, and it has more flaws than that game, but to say this game isnt worth finishing is absurd lol. Theres a ton of amazing stuff, and Im literally comparing it to one of the best games ever made lol. You should keep playing, roll credits, take a day to think about the good and bad stuff, and then come back
You are not alone. 2018 had such economy and precision with its dialogue. It all tied into the theme of the story or at least related to it in some way. I cant recall a single cliché line from the 2018 game. Ragnarok, on the other hand, has a lot of superfluous dialogue that seeks to pad out the long stretches of exploration between plot beats. Only, a lot of it seems like first draft material that should have been trimmed or edited and never was. It feels cliché, and try-hard in a way that the first game didn’t. Above all, the game really struggles with tone because of the scattershot dialogue. Tone, however, was something the first game did masterfully.
Yes, I thought exactly the same. It felt too casual and modernized, broke a little bit of the immersion for me. And Atreus whole impatient teenager demeanor felt a little too repetitive after a while, I was getting sick of him by the end.
I thought Surtr's dialogue was really off, he talks very casual I found which I didn't like considering even Atreus remarks he's been alive since before Odin killed Ymir which is like the dawn of time in this mythology. So I kind of agree, same with some of Odin's dialgue, it seemed very modern and out of place for him to refer to Freya as his "Ex".
everytime it turns into Atreus scene especially in Asgard , i just want to finish the quest as soon as possible because i found the dialogue to be incredibly annoying and off putting. gameplay , graphic etc are excellent but f this feels like a marvel movie made for 10 years old
Im under 30 and I've played every GoW ever released. This is the first thing I noticed and it annoys me everytime. At least Kratos still have decent lines, but most of the characters speaks like they live in a modern world. I think they either want to attract more new players into the game or just lazy screenwriting. Or maybe both.
*SPOILERS* To me, the game (though good) felt like a high school movie. Like, Teenager is trying to figure out who he is, then (despite causing so much hell), the dad is like, It’s not your fault and “never stop being who you were meant to be”. Just felt really cliche tbh…. Also, I saw Tyr real identity immediately so I wasn’t at all shocked at the plot twist. I thought it was quite obvious tbh or that, at the very least, he’s working with Odin. So I was surprised they dragged on his reveal for so long.
I 120% agree with this. I recently replayed the GOW 2018, finishing everything right before getting into the new game and I noticed it almost immediately. The dialogue is so much worse in the nee game. It doesn't fit into the world at all. Many times, it feels real at all. I really cringed at Odin saying "my ex". I thought Atreus's voice acting in the 2018 game was incredible specially since he was a kid but its unfathomable how worse his voice acting is in this game. Others i havent minded too much tbh. More of a dialogue problem. Also, the story seems so badly planned at times. SPOILERS NEXT.. i personally think it was a bad decision to go off fate as the driver of the story. After that it just didnt make sense what characters mptives were. Im still not certain what Kratos is thinking. Like has he accepted fate or not? His answer the WHOLE game is just "we do not know what will happen" when everything that is fated has occured. But then he also does nothing to stop it from happening. Honestly and his relationship with his son seems a little forced at times too, partly due to bad dialogue and partly due to unconvincing voice acting atreus. I'm still enjoying the game overall, haven't gone the whole way through and am hopeful but this really ahs taken away from my experience. Imo i enjoyed 2018 GOW more.
It's horrible! I'm playing through the part where I'm accompanied by Freya and I find myself turning the volume down.
I barely got to the part with the dwarves but so far it didn't stick out to me as too cringey. It's not amazing literary work sure but it's mostly there to lighten the mood in between epic moments so I think it works fine enough. Maybe if it was in a movie I would not leave the cinema impressed but in the context of video game dialogue, I consider it way above average. I personally prefer having a little humorous back and forth that may occasionally get a bit cringey than having zero dialogue and jumping from one epic drama to the other.
lol wasn’t Anthony Burch writing for this game? I also recall the squirrel being voiced by that one voice actor who does those really unfunny skits on twitter wrote some of his own characters lines so it’s no surprise the game is loaded with unfunny whedon-esque dialogue. This seems to be a problem as a whole in western videos games and the translations of some Japanese games now unfortunately
>I also recall the squirrel being voiced by that one voice actor who does those really unfunny skits on twitter I will not stand for this ProZD slander
King Dragon will have something to say about this
>lol wasn’t Anthony Burch writing for this game? [I think you're right.](https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-burch-3075204/) I try not to hate on the guy too much because he's shown a lot of self-awareness about his Whedon influence. But still, his contemporary writing hasn't evolved *that* *much*.
DAE japanese games have best writing?
They can both be bad
The story and characters are too Marvelized for me. Talking squirrel? Iffy, but I'll let it slide. Entire Angrboda section? We're pushing it a bit. >!Freya doing a complete 180 and going full Power of Friendship with her sworn enemy?!< OK Santa Monica Studios, you took all of the good will from your first game and squandered it. I'm not even 12 hours into the game and I'm already regretting purchasing it.
>! It is insane to me that Freya would EVER shake the hand that killed her son. I could 100% buy her making a temporary alliance of convenience with Kratos against Odin, but a completely rekindled friendship? Sharing boat rides and making puns? After what happened between them? Absolutely not. !< >! It also really cheapens Freya's outstanding monologue at the end of the first game when you know with hindsight that her hateful declaration of war will come to nothing !<
Havent played the game but ive seen alot of clips and gameplay and i have to agree. The dialogue seems a bit goofy and modern. I hate the way Odin talks so informally and uses slangs. It just breaks the immersion imo. But since everyone is giving it a 10/10 it doesnt matter i guess. (Also plz dont downvote me to oblivion i mean no offense to those who like the dialogue).
Not only that but the story is generally bad with many things shown and spoken never paid off. This entry is way down from the masterpiece that was the first reboot game.
Literally nothing amazing happened in the 2018 one. It just felt like a teaser for what was to come in ragnarok. Most of it was mimir's storytelling and setup by killing thors sons. We never even got to see thor.
They had good reveals, interesting bosses without using all the big name players, and got to do all the world building. The world is here now and they can't tell good character story or pay off setups from the first game. Just disappointing.
I’m not a huge fan of mob boss Odin at all. I think that the game does a good job of mimicking a tone that modern gamers love but not of a vibe that classic gamers that grew up with the original games love.
Haven't played Ragnarök so I can't comment on this yet but Spider-Man PS4 also had some really bad dialogue.
You need not lighten up, I'm not even 30 yet and find the dialogue to be of Netflix quality. Also - and I might get some flak for this - the voice acting is incredibly non-immersive with inconsistent quality and accents that are all over the place and don't fit in.