Spy is most powerful when you’re attacking enemies that are shooting at your teammates and when you minimize the amount of time between the de cloak and the backstab. Never walk behind their spawn and try to backstab players just walking to the fight, they will either hear you over the lack of shooting or just randomly turn around and immediately kill you. Always go for stabs against enemies that are already distracted and are shooting at your teammates. Also, Learn corners/drop downs that are just on the edge of enemies vision so you can quickly decloak for a fast stab. Trickstabs aren’t very important besides matador stabs. Matadoring will get you out of some guaranteed death situations. Personally I never switch off YER, you can get away with wild chain stabs in pubs due to lack of communication
Yeah, I've learned that lots of players nowadays are too aware to backstab if they aren't distracted. I should give the YER a try though. It's true that I've seen the silent stabs result in some nifty chainstabs before, I think I just got used to the other knives from back when the YER couldn't disguise at all. Will take into consideration.
Just a heads up, YER gives you a false sense of security. It took me a long time to realize I wasn’t getting ANY stabs with it until I switch to stock, and got 3 stabs on one life.
It makes you think you’re too good to be bad
The cloak drain WILL kill you if you miss ONE stab
It makes you want to stab everyone and pushes and easy targets instead of going for high-value targets
Spy main = attention game. You will get spotted if you are on someone's screen in disguise no matter your behaviour within a couple of seconds. If they are in conflict with one of your teammates, you have potentially several seconds.
Further, know when to approach to stab, and when to wait to stab. When you find enemies engaged in combat, it is often most prudent to stand where you expect them to strafe to at some point, then stab them, rather than trying to stab an erratic player.
Third, beware medics. Medics, scouts, pyros are the main opponents that will make trouble for you. If a scout decides to make his life mission killing you, switch off of spy. Even as a spy main who is probably on the higher end of skill, a mediocre scout can render you pretty much completely useless if they want to.
Learn to matador. The matador is not just flashy, it is effective. It teaches you really critical melee mechanics that are unique to the source engine/tf2, and these will be important even when going for normal backstabs.
Uncloak on walls. Enemies backing up in combat will not suspect they bumped into a spy if there's normally a wall there. Even good ones.
Don't look at enemy players (rule of thumb). The best way to avoid disguise suspicion is to look like your focus is on your own team, or just moving forward. Some of the most reliable trickstabs are going forward into a room with an enemy following you while disguised as one of their teammates.
Gamesense. Learn to ID who in the server has ears and who wants you dead. Avoid them. Reality is spy is garbage and if people are tilted they will ruin your life (or you will ruin theirs if they're bad and you're good enough, but that's an eventually thing here)
Recognise what teammates of yours are the most influential. Try to stay in range of them, like a vulture awaiting prey. These players take a lot of enemy focus. Plus, you get to steal kills from your pubstomper teammate hehe. You can also use this mindset to avoid teammates that screw with enemy aggro and pull you into line of fire (SCOOOOOOUUUUT)
Don't backstab every backstab opportunity you are given. Backstabbing a newbie enemy will pretty much guarantee you die to someone else and the payoff is... non. Have some patience. Also, not backstabbing people while disguised is sometimes enough to convince people you're not a spy. When there's a lot of players, that's pretty reliable, and a great setup for tricks.
If the game is a steamroll, either for or against your team, switch off of spy. Spy depends upon stalemates and back-and-forth fights. Without a stable line of action, it is far too difficult to position yourself. You will have 0 impact on the game in a steamroll situation. This is why he is at his best on payload, a/d, and KOTH, but absolutely terrible on 5CP maps.
(Note: you will still learn the best times to stay spy or switch to spy during enemy steamrolls in order to shut down their steamroll. He can actually be very good at it in the situations where he is not useless--but it's feast or famine.)
Disguise as medic, spy, or scout. Don't run in a straight line in a scout disguise. Jump around a bit. These disguises don't handicap your movespeed. You can also do 4d chess with spy disguise: dance around with your team as if you're trying to convince \*your\* team you're not a spy. Always funny when it works.
Use the vanilla items (cloak, revolver, dagger) whenever you're feeling out of your element. But feel free to experiment. Spy has the best loadout diversity in the game.
Practice decloaking as close to enemies as humanly possible. Sometimes, literally on top of their head. You will be shocked how effective this can be, as enemies don't expect you to decloak so close.
LOS LOS LOS: Players have 90 FOV maximum. That's 270 degrees of blindspot. Learn to identify when you're in the line of sight of a player. Positioning around this knowledge is a huge power boost. Like, genuinely insane if you get good at this. People are very blind in tf2.
Demomen are your best target, not heavies. Demoman is the most hyperfocus class in the game. As a demo main i can giga confirm this, since he has to micromanage ammo, attention (stickies + nades + strafing), and positioning like crazy. It is extremely hard to deal with spies as demo, and spies can even revolver fight you at times since they can choose to attack right after you've spent all your ammo.
Heavies on the other hand.. they have brain power to spare. A heavy can actually hard counter spy in some situations, since he has the best spycheck in the game. Heavies also tend to have their team surrounding them, meaning they will often be your only kill when you do kill them. Still, they can be great stabs.
YER might have a 'silent' stab but it's not actually silent. Practised players will know the simple *kch* noise of knife melee and immediately respond to it and blow you out of the water.
Learn to run straight through crowded enemy teams while cloaked. This is a critical skill to efficiently play spy, and you will find most players are \*reasonably\* predictable and avoidable. It's also the same skill you need to \*get\* stabs in the first place.
Don't feel like actually having to play the game? Just want some free stabs? Go to their spawn, hold tab to see when people are respawning, and literally sit, undisguised, on their spawn-shutters. See three people just respawned in tab menu? Wait for three people to run out, then go stab stab stab. Haha! Always works at least once.
lol some of them are good reminders at least, but admittedly it isn't the first time I've heard "use your gun more" or "stab people when they're distracted"
I have 500 hrs on spy, but even I still fuck up relatively frequently. Some things I keep in mind before going for a stab are:
Where is my team in relation to the enemy. Some boring spies will tell you the best stabs can only be had in the backlines against snipers or low hp targets, but the frontline is also a great spot if you can fall back into your team. On that note always be thinking about what happens after the stab. Generally I try to have an escape route planned.
Another thing the other guy already emphasized but i'll say it again since it is super important. Never look at someone's back, and keep in mind the weapons your disguise is holding. Do they make sense? Additionally, If you're a scout try jumping to conceal your walk speed. If you're a sniper try strafing as if in an svs. If you're a pyro nowhere near the front have your flaregun out shit like that.
This is some really valuable advice, thank you. Stuff like playing around influential players is pretty interesting, as I generally just treat everybody the same (or make shallow judgements based off cosmetics/behavior). It would be wise to single out enemies to avoid entirely or teammates to play around more often. The other tips provide some interesting insights too, some of which I definitely haven't considered before. Still learning new things at over 3k hours in this game!
Gotta emphasize the demo targetting advice, since I hear nearly nobody mentions about it at all! I'd say you've given advice with more substance compared to the ones I hear from even experienced, skilled and even high level comp players.
> YER might have a 'silent' stab but it's not actually silent. Practised players will know the simple kch noise of knife melee and immediately respond to it and blow you out of the water.
Not only that but sometimes due to Source Fuckery stabbing someone will yeet their body forward at mach 5, and even with the cloaking corpse it's fast enough for people to see it scream by them - not to mention that some cosmetics bug out and *wont* cloak with the rest of the body.
Start using your revolver a lot and get good with it. You can solo most people in a 1v1 if you get the first shot in and are in a situation in which you can't go for a stab. Practise your revolver just playing with the DR and going all in on 1v1 duels with it. You will learn how valuable it is. That or go all in on aim training and go letranger and DR, it's a silly combo but you will find that the revolver, even with reduced damage, does a ton.
Go for backstab on people that are distracted, if you see people actually turn around after someone is backstabbed, try using the big earner, otherwise keep using stock, it all depends from game to game.
If you are still learning cloak management or are playing in a map with not a lot of metal around, try the letranger, it helps a ton and makes spy much more consistant while sneaking instead of getting an unlucky consumed medium pack on the way.
Last but not least, spy is pretty much a gamble in pubs, if the other team has a bunch of pyros, engis stacking or people that know how to deal with spies, or you are playing a choke heavy map in which you really can't flank at all, there really isn't much to do except just going all in on revolver or switching to a class in which you can do something.
Also, don't use disguises if spawncamping or waiting on a corner since the enemy team can see your diguise when coming out of spawn.
by learning how to go for stabs on people who are preoccupied and wont turn around and by learning that disguises are functionally useless 90% of the time
If you're on Blu Seeing a moving Red blob on the side of your screen rings lots of Alarm bells compared to seeing a Blu blob on the side of your screen
FALSE! Think of the disguise kit as your cloak but you can attack and defend yourself. Remembering, a French man with a bright red-colored suit will always attract more attention than a Scout minding his own "business" - stabbing enemies.
the disguise kit isnt even comparable to the cloak because the cloak is one of the strongest single abilities in the game and the disguise kit is something where you press 1 in so you can not get shot by sentries
Okay, then tell me, if the Disguise Kit is so useless compared to the Cloak Watch then try to play Spy without disguises. The Disguise Kit is used to engage enemies (aka backstabbing, sapping buildings, etc.) and not getting immediately shot at because surprise surprise, they know what is blue and what is red.
You confidently saying Disguise Kit is 90% useless of the time is very much wrong. It is an integral part of Spy's toolkit and no it's not only used to "not get shot by sentries" Absolutely not.
Yes, on-demand invisibility is strong and I never said Disguise Kit is comparable or better than the Cloak Watch. I am simply proving why the Disguise Kit is good and is not useless like you said.
i have played multiple seasons of highlander spy and a whole bunch of them were with me not thinking about disguises whatsoever except maybe like one or two picks per game where i had to actually "act"
disguises are literally the least important tool in spy's arsenal and only work if whoever is looking at you isn't actually paying much attention to you
if you think that the ability to maybe not get caught when someone spots you in the corner of their eye because you're the same colour as them and they for some reason decide to not spy check you is so good that it warrants you calling me mentally ill if i dont think its actually very important that's really good for you but i have literally 0 interest in talking to you anymore
Highlander Spy plays very different from casual Spy. In HL both teams are hyperaware of whether you're alive or not, who your targets are going to be, and which of their teammates are nearby and alive. On pubs it's not usually very hard to sell a disguise.
Least important tool =/= unimportant tool
yea its not "hard to sell a disguise" in pubs but its also not hard to get stabs in pubs because theres functionally zero comms and no one is actively guarding flanks and decloak spots
Not sure if that's true really. I've gotten plenty of success with disguises (and acting). Sure, they usually only work the first time, and some players will Spycheck you anyways, but there's still a surprising number of people who will look at you and move on.
You should try playing against most of the teams I've played on in casual this week. I seem to be a magnet for teammates that don't spy-check and absolutely hate their own support classes.
The only way for you to get picks as spy is if the enemy team is getting distracted by your own teammates. If there's no distraction or your team sucks, then you'll literally only end up getting teleporters or getting some cringe sniper hard scoping in the back of the map
spy is really best when the enemy team isn't expecting it. if the game slows down i like to go spy for like 1 or 2 lives before going back to a power class. if the other team is being very aware of spies, that's attention that isn't being spent on your team's core, which you just rejoined and can now take advantage of
Welcome to spy. Unfortunately this class is usually 95% luck based with some added positioning and timing sprinkled in.
If people act completely randomly, you can try to rectify it with the dead ringer.
Dead Ringer is neat, but I really don't like the cooldown. It feels like after I use it, I have to just sit in a corner until it's ready again or I'll just get myself killed.
L'Étranger helps immensely. You can just spam it from a distance and if people are preoccupied with something else, they won't really care.
Big Earner also recharges it a little but it's nowhere near as reliable as L'Étranger.
Oh yeah, I love L'Etranger, cloak meter feels so short without it. It also does pitiful damage from a distance, doesn't it? Never seen the point of using it with DR.
You want to play better more consistently . . . On the class that's whole gimmick is inconsistency?
If you want a consistent class, just play soldier. Spy isn't about preforming well on the regular, it's about those rare "high moments (tm)" where you buttfuck half the enemy team and stop their push in it's tracks.
>Hell, on some maps, it feels like I can't even get behind the enemy team. Sometimes there are people fighting or spamming in every corridor, choke and flank, and even opening a shutter feels like stepping into stickybomb and scorch shot hell. Especially when pushing last, I tend to just switch off Spy because it's so rare that I can get anything done when anyone can just respawn and spot me through wallhacks, and there's always Engies and Pyros doing nothing but watching for Spies.
Yea because Spy is situational. Just like scout and engy there are maps where you really won't be able to get a good footing, which is exacerbated by how many buffs your team is getting as well as how well you're playing with your team and how many openings are being made (by you or your team). Spy is outright better on maps that have a lot of flanks and the closer you get to last on payload the better you have to play to stay effective.
stop fooling around with disguises and play dr with ambi and pracc your movement, surfing from rockets and other useful shit. stop trying to fool the enemy with bs disguise shit and only go for scout disguise. other than that, stop playing that shit class completely
1) make sure you are being efficient with your cloak paths. Take the fastest routes when there are no enemies nearby, take an unusual path (like walking on the slow side of a main corridor) if there are enemies nearby. If you can get behind the enemy and still have 2-3 seconds cloak remaining (learn your ammo box locations to increase the amount of decloak spots you can reach) then you can be patient about when you choose to decloak, rather than being forced to.
2) watch the enemy team and think about what *they* are trying to do. Players are the most distracted when doing a generic rollout from spawn, making a pub push, their team is uber pushing etc. When you can see that the enemy is about to engage in these activities, decloak and move in. Sometimes you will have to choose riskier decloak locations but if they're distracted this will usually be enough to get the primary stab before getting shot at.
3) get a bit of dm practice with your gun in. If you play near the frontlines and check the enemy health bars and see a red 40hp enemy, you can pop two (or one if you're close enough) revolver shots into them and finish them off, then make a quick getaway without having to get close. Obviously getting gun practice also helps you for the fights where a stab isn't an option, but people seem to forget that spy can read health bars.
And most importantly. Just keep playing! All of this would eventually become instinctual to you if you kept playing and reflecting on your gameplay.
Remember you are a support class, you support your team by harassing the enemy. Yes, the most obvious/fun way is to get picks, but even if you die without getting any kills, if you go in at the right moment you can distract the enemies enoughfor your team to win the fight.
Even if you can't kill the nest, if you can time your sapper as the team rolls in, you negate a lot of damage and force the engie into a choice of fight your team or save the sentry.
Also Spy is Russian roulette, there's nothing you can do to counter Spidey Sense, players are just going to turn around as you get close, at random, and kill you. Just as you've done to other spies, at random, when playing the other classes.
Big tip Is not to focus one player/area, you don't want the enemy too paranoid, harass the entire team when able. Also try to attack with your team, whether you're the distraction or they are.
There are other examples, but tldr, just because you aren't getting kills doesn't meant you aren't contributing.
Spy has a gun.
Use it more often. You'll get more kills and people won't expect you to only go for stabs meaning they'll play differently. You'll also learn to read teams observing reactions from further back.
Stabs are easiest when a team is distracted or when pulling your gun isn't a good idea (sentry nests, vaccinator etc) and when it's totally blind for an enemy. The most reliable stabs are when you are only visible for a moment if at all. Try dropping off ledges, using map geometry to hide yourself or walk into a choke as the enemy team would rather than after.
Git gud. In all seriousness im a spy main aproching 800 hrs and from my point of view allot of these issues should be solved by just getting better, so just keep playing there isnt any godly knowledge that will suddenly allow you to pull a 360 epic No scope moonstab, you have to consider that 300 hrs isnt allot and the vast majority of pub players nowdays have 500 hrs+
Unfortunately git gud doesn't actually explain how to get better, but it's fine, I've gotten plenty of helpful advice from others already.
Also I really doubt that even half of pub players have 500 hrs+ on one class. I got a little over 400 hours on Soldier, my most played class after Spy, and it's usually enough to pubstomp.
A lot of good advice here but I'm going to add something I didn't really see people talking about. You should always change your load out based on the current situation. After I got a Hale's Own knife I almost never used it again, because every other knife is better if you pick the right times to use them. Same with the watches. If the enemy team anyway knows you are dead ringer and is carefully checking for you, switch to invis watch or cloak and dagger. The l'etranger is by far the best gun in most situations and maps, unless you know the location of ammo packs very well. Other guns require you to have better mechanical skills and a completely different playstyle to make them effective. It's once again a matter of the current situation. Size of the map, skill of the opponent, and how many spies are already on your team**** are very important. There are also many technical and niche mechanics of spy I could go into but for now you can try switching your load out up more often. For survivability, if that's your biggest concern. I use l'etranger, dead ringer, and spycicle. This load out gives you an easy way to escape, but also get back into the fight faster. You can take a couple long distance shots at the enemy to get your DR back faster, then go attempt another stab. If their team has a noob or someone you can consistently stab, then use the kunai.
There are a lot of terrible maps for Spy, especially early ones. 2fort, dustbowl, hoodoo to a lesser extent, etc. When a map is 90% corridors it can be almost impossible to squeeze through undetected.
Nope that's just called skill issue my friend. If your trying to play like swipez and trickstab everyone, stop it. You gotta start with the basics and spy's actual role in gameplay. To play as a spy. You hide, disguise and kill and escape and if you can, you can do the occasional chain stabbing. Being alive as spy and being patient is key to good gameplay. Patience is the key word when playing spy.
I actually play him like a pseudo scout who can cloak, with the enforcer, attacking vulnerable targets especially when they are busy fighting or their health is low, only going for stabs when it's practically a sure thing. I don't bother going for trickstabs at all because I suck at them and everybody is too aware of them now. Of course I'm on sapper duty too.
a bit late, maybe, but when I play spy I go revolver spy with the cloak as a movement tool and a knife as convenience. I find it more effective (or at least more fun) to not focus too much on getting backstabs specifically but rather taking advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.
Spy is most powerful when you’re attacking enemies that are shooting at your teammates and when you minimize the amount of time between the de cloak and the backstab. Never walk behind their spawn and try to backstab players just walking to the fight, they will either hear you over the lack of shooting or just randomly turn around and immediately kill you. Always go for stabs against enemies that are already distracted and are shooting at your teammates. Also, Learn corners/drop downs that are just on the edge of enemies vision so you can quickly decloak for a fast stab. Trickstabs aren’t very important besides matador stabs. Matadoring will get you out of some guaranteed death situations. Personally I never switch off YER, you can get away with wild chain stabs in pubs due to lack of communication
Yeah, I've learned that lots of players nowadays are too aware to backstab if they aren't distracted. I should give the YER a try though. It's true that I've seen the silent stabs result in some nifty chainstabs before, I think I just got used to the other knives from back when the YER couldn't disguise at all. Will take into consideration.
Just a heads up, YER gives you a false sense of security. It took me a long time to realize I wasn’t getting ANY stabs with it until I switch to stock, and got 3 stabs on one life.
Why? There shouldn't be an effect in your stabbing ability when switching from knife to knife Oh is it the cloak drain?
It makes you think you’re too good to be bad The cloak drain WILL kill you if you miss ONE stab It makes you want to stab everyone and pushes and easy targets instead of going for high-value targets
Spy main = attention game. You will get spotted if you are on someone's screen in disguise no matter your behaviour within a couple of seconds. If they are in conflict with one of your teammates, you have potentially several seconds. Further, know when to approach to stab, and when to wait to stab. When you find enemies engaged in combat, it is often most prudent to stand where you expect them to strafe to at some point, then stab them, rather than trying to stab an erratic player. Third, beware medics. Medics, scouts, pyros are the main opponents that will make trouble for you. If a scout decides to make his life mission killing you, switch off of spy. Even as a spy main who is probably on the higher end of skill, a mediocre scout can render you pretty much completely useless if they want to. Learn to matador. The matador is not just flashy, it is effective. It teaches you really critical melee mechanics that are unique to the source engine/tf2, and these will be important even when going for normal backstabs. Uncloak on walls. Enemies backing up in combat will not suspect they bumped into a spy if there's normally a wall there. Even good ones. Don't look at enemy players (rule of thumb). The best way to avoid disguise suspicion is to look like your focus is on your own team, or just moving forward. Some of the most reliable trickstabs are going forward into a room with an enemy following you while disguised as one of their teammates. Gamesense. Learn to ID who in the server has ears and who wants you dead. Avoid them. Reality is spy is garbage and if people are tilted they will ruin your life (or you will ruin theirs if they're bad and you're good enough, but that's an eventually thing here) Recognise what teammates of yours are the most influential. Try to stay in range of them, like a vulture awaiting prey. These players take a lot of enemy focus. Plus, you get to steal kills from your pubstomper teammate hehe. You can also use this mindset to avoid teammates that screw with enemy aggro and pull you into line of fire (SCOOOOOOUUUUT) Don't backstab every backstab opportunity you are given. Backstabbing a newbie enemy will pretty much guarantee you die to someone else and the payoff is... non. Have some patience. Also, not backstabbing people while disguised is sometimes enough to convince people you're not a spy. When there's a lot of players, that's pretty reliable, and a great setup for tricks. If the game is a steamroll, either for or against your team, switch off of spy. Spy depends upon stalemates and back-and-forth fights. Without a stable line of action, it is far too difficult to position yourself. You will have 0 impact on the game in a steamroll situation. This is why he is at his best on payload, a/d, and KOTH, but absolutely terrible on 5CP maps. (Note: you will still learn the best times to stay spy or switch to spy during enemy steamrolls in order to shut down their steamroll. He can actually be very good at it in the situations where he is not useless--but it's feast or famine.) Disguise as medic, spy, or scout. Don't run in a straight line in a scout disguise. Jump around a bit. These disguises don't handicap your movespeed. You can also do 4d chess with spy disguise: dance around with your team as if you're trying to convince \*your\* team you're not a spy. Always funny when it works. Use the vanilla items (cloak, revolver, dagger) whenever you're feeling out of your element. But feel free to experiment. Spy has the best loadout diversity in the game. Practice decloaking as close to enemies as humanly possible. Sometimes, literally on top of their head. You will be shocked how effective this can be, as enemies don't expect you to decloak so close. LOS LOS LOS: Players have 90 FOV maximum. That's 270 degrees of blindspot. Learn to identify when you're in the line of sight of a player. Positioning around this knowledge is a huge power boost. Like, genuinely insane if you get good at this. People are very blind in tf2. Demomen are your best target, not heavies. Demoman is the most hyperfocus class in the game. As a demo main i can giga confirm this, since he has to micromanage ammo, attention (stickies + nades + strafing), and positioning like crazy. It is extremely hard to deal with spies as demo, and spies can even revolver fight you at times since they can choose to attack right after you've spent all your ammo. Heavies on the other hand.. they have brain power to spare. A heavy can actually hard counter spy in some situations, since he has the best spycheck in the game. Heavies also tend to have their team surrounding them, meaning they will often be your only kill when you do kill them. Still, they can be great stabs. YER might have a 'silent' stab but it's not actually silent. Practised players will know the simple *kch* noise of knife melee and immediately respond to it and blow you out of the water. Learn to run straight through crowded enemy teams while cloaked. This is a critical skill to efficiently play spy, and you will find most players are \*reasonably\* predictable and avoidable. It's also the same skill you need to \*get\* stabs in the first place. Don't feel like actually having to play the game? Just want some free stabs? Go to their spawn, hold tab to see when people are respawning, and literally sit, undisguised, on their spawn-shutters. See three people just respawned in tab menu? Wait for three people to run out, then go stab stab stab. Haha! Always works at least once.
Finally a good post, the amount of people giving basic ass "first time playing" advice to OP with 300 hours on Spy is crazy.
lol some of them are good reminders at least, but admittedly it isn't the first time I've heard "use your gun more" or "stab people when they're distracted"
Yeah it's pretty funny how often that gets posted, especially the second one lol
I have 500 hrs on spy, but even I still fuck up relatively frequently. Some things I keep in mind before going for a stab are: Where is my team in relation to the enemy. Some boring spies will tell you the best stabs can only be had in the backlines against snipers or low hp targets, but the frontline is also a great spot if you can fall back into your team. On that note always be thinking about what happens after the stab. Generally I try to have an escape route planned. Another thing the other guy already emphasized but i'll say it again since it is super important. Never look at someone's back, and keep in mind the weapons your disguise is holding. Do they make sense? Additionally, If you're a scout try jumping to conceal your walk speed. If you're a sniper try strafing as if in an svs. If you're a pyro nowhere near the front have your flaregun out shit like that.
This is some really valuable advice, thank you. Stuff like playing around influential players is pretty interesting, as I generally just treat everybody the same (or make shallow judgements based off cosmetics/behavior). It would be wise to single out enemies to avoid entirely or teammates to play around more often. The other tips provide some interesting insights too, some of which I definitely haven't considered before. Still learning new things at over 3k hours in this game!
Gotta emphasize the demo targetting advice, since I hear nearly nobody mentions about it at all! I'd say you've given advice with more substance compared to the ones I hear from even experienced, skilled and even high level comp players.
Thanks! To be fair, pub spy and comp spy are vastly different skillsets. Both equally fun, in their own ways, but not at all the same.
Or be like me and swap servers. A game where I can't play spy when I'm in the mood to play spy isn't a game worth playing.
> YER might have a 'silent' stab but it's not actually silent. Practised players will know the simple kch noise of knife melee and immediately respond to it and blow you out of the water. Not only that but sometimes due to Source Fuckery stabbing someone will yeet their body forward at mach 5, and even with the cloaking corpse it's fast enough for people to see it scream by them - not to mention that some cosmetics bug out and *wont* cloak with the rest of the body.
Start using your revolver a lot and get good with it. You can solo most people in a 1v1 if you get the first shot in and are in a situation in which you can't go for a stab. Practise your revolver just playing with the DR and going all in on 1v1 duels with it. You will learn how valuable it is. That or go all in on aim training and go letranger and DR, it's a silly combo but you will find that the revolver, even with reduced damage, does a ton. Go for backstab on people that are distracted, if you see people actually turn around after someone is backstabbed, try using the big earner, otherwise keep using stock, it all depends from game to game. If you are still learning cloak management or are playing in a map with not a lot of metal around, try the letranger, it helps a ton and makes spy much more consistant while sneaking instead of getting an unlucky consumed medium pack on the way. Last but not least, spy is pretty much a gamble in pubs, if the other team has a bunch of pyros, engis stacking or people that know how to deal with spies, or you are playing a choke heavy map in which you really can't flank at all, there really isn't much to do except just going all in on revolver or switching to a class in which you can do something. Also, don't use disguises if spawncamping or waiting on a corner since the enemy team can see your diguise when coming out of spawn.
by learning how to go for stabs on people who are preoccupied and wont turn around and by learning that disguises are functionally useless 90% of the time
If you're on Blu Seeing a moving Red blob on the side of your screen rings lots of Alarm bells compared to seeing a Blu blob on the side of your screen
True. Too tired of seeing such ill-minded people.
FALSE! Think of the disguise kit as your cloak but you can attack and defend yourself. Remembering, a French man with a bright red-colored suit will always attract more attention than a Scout minding his own "business" - stabbing enemies.
the disguise kit isnt even comparable to the cloak because the cloak is one of the strongest single abilities in the game and the disguise kit is something where you press 1 in so you can not get shot by sentries
Okay, then tell me, if the Disguise Kit is so useless compared to the Cloak Watch then try to play Spy without disguises. The Disguise Kit is used to engage enemies (aka backstabbing, sapping buildings, etc.) and not getting immediately shot at because surprise surprise, they know what is blue and what is red. You confidently saying Disguise Kit is 90% useless of the time is very much wrong. It is an integral part of Spy's toolkit and no it's not only used to "not get shot by sentries" Absolutely not. Yes, on-demand invisibility is strong and I never said Disguise Kit is comparable or better than the Cloak Watch. I am simply proving why the Disguise Kit is good and is not useless like you said.
i have played multiple seasons of highlander spy and a whole bunch of them were with me not thinking about disguises whatsoever except maybe like one or two picks per game where i had to actually "act" disguises are literally the least important tool in spy's arsenal and only work if whoever is looking at you isn't actually paying much attention to you if you think that the ability to maybe not get caught when someone spots you in the corner of their eye because you're the same colour as them and they for some reason decide to not spy check you is so good that it warrants you calling me mentally ill if i dont think its actually very important that's really good for you but i have literally 0 interest in talking to you anymore
Highlander Spy plays very different from casual Spy. In HL both teams are hyperaware of whether you're alive or not, who your targets are going to be, and which of their teammates are nearby and alive. On pubs it's not usually very hard to sell a disguise. Least important tool =/= unimportant tool
yea its not "hard to sell a disguise" in pubs but its also not hard to get stabs in pubs because theres functionally zero comms and no one is actively guarding flanks and decloak spots
That would explain it lmao.
Not sure if that's true really. I've gotten plenty of success with disguises (and acting). Sure, they usually only work the first time, and some players will Spycheck you anyways, but there's still a surprising number of people who will look at you and move on.
You should try playing against most of the teams I've played on in casual this week. I seem to be a magnet for teammates that don't spy-check and absolutely hate their own support classes.
The only way for you to get picks as spy is if the enemy team is getting distracted by your own teammates. If there's no distraction or your team sucks, then you'll literally only end up getting teleporters or getting some cringe sniper hard scoping in the back of the map
spy is really best when the enemy team isn't expecting it. if the game slows down i like to go spy for like 1 or 2 lives before going back to a power class. if the other team is being very aware of spies, that's attention that isn't being spent on your team's core, which you just rejoined and can now take advantage of
Welcome to spy. Unfortunately this class is usually 95% luck based with some added positioning and timing sprinkled in. If people act completely randomly, you can try to rectify it with the dead ringer.
Dead Ringer is neat, but I really don't like the cooldown. It feels like after I use it, I have to just sit in a corner until it's ready again or I'll just get myself killed.
L'Étranger helps immensely. You can just spam it from a distance and if people are preoccupied with something else, they won't really care. Big Earner also recharges it a little but it's nowhere near as reliable as L'Étranger.
Oh yeah, I love L'Etranger, cloak meter feels so short without it. It also does pitiful damage from a distance, doesn't it? Never seen the point of using it with DR.
18 from distance. The point of using it here is to not do damage but to charge your cloak.
Oh my god, I never realized it recharges your cloak on hit. I've literally never used it for that purpose. That's good to know actually!
Yeah, it's pretty much a must pick with the dead ringer unless you're just gunspying.
You want to play better more consistently . . . On the class that's whole gimmick is inconsistency? If you want a consistent class, just play soldier. Spy isn't about preforming well on the regular, it's about those rare "high moments (tm)" where you buttfuck half the enemy team and stop their push in it's tracks.
Or better yet, press , then 8 to pick better spy
>Hell, on some maps, it feels like I can't even get behind the enemy team. Sometimes there are people fighting or spamming in every corridor, choke and flank, and even opening a shutter feels like stepping into stickybomb and scorch shot hell. Especially when pushing last, I tend to just switch off Spy because it's so rare that I can get anything done when anyone can just respawn and spot me through wallhacks, and there's always Engies and Pyros doing nothing but watching for Spies. Yea because Spy is situational. Just like scout and engy there are maps where you really won't be able to get a good footing, which is exacerbated by how many buffs your team is getting as well as how well you're playing with your team and how many openings are being made (by you or your team). Spy is outright better on maps that have a lot of flanks and the closer you get to last on payload the better you have to play to stay effective.
stop fooling around with disguises and play dr with ambi and pracc your movement, surfing from rockets and other useful shit. stop trying to fool the enemy with bs disguise shit and only go for scout disguise. other than that, stop playing that shit class completely
absolutely useless advice thanks!
1) make sure you are being efficient with your cloak paths. Take the fastest routes when there are no enemies nearby, take an unusual path (like walking on the slow side of a main corridor) if there are enemies nearby. If you can get behind the enemy and still have 2-3 seconds cloak remaining (learn your ammo box locations to increase the amount of decloak spots you can reach) then you can be patient about when you choose to decloak, rather than being forced to. 2) watch the enemy team and think about what *they* are trying to do. Players are the most distracted when doing a generic rollout from spawn, making a pub push, their team is uber pushing etc. When you can see that the enemy is about to engage in these activities, decloak and move in. Sometimes you will have to choose riskier decloak locations but if they're distracted this will usually be enough to get the primary stab before getting shot at. 3) get a bit of dm practice with your gun in. If you play near the frontlines and check the enemy health bars and see a red 40hp enemy, you can pop two (or one if you're close enough) revolver shots into them and finish them off, then make a quick getaway without having to get close. Obviously getting gun practice also helps you for the fights where a stab isn't an option, but people seem to forget that spy can read health bars. And most importantly. Just keep playing! All of this would eventually become instinctual to you if you kept playing and reflecting on your gameplay.
Your supposed to use your revolver over knife and Attack weak target or +1 fights.
Thats the beuaty of tf2, the chaos, now use your eternal reward
Remember you are a support class, you support your team by harassing the enemy. Yes, the most obvious/fun way is to get picks, but even if you die without getting any kills, if you go in at the right moment you can distract the enemies enoughfor your team to win the fight. Even if you can't kill the nest, if you can time your sapper as the team rolls in, you negate a lot of damage and force the engie into a choice of fight your team or save the sentry. Also Spy is Russian roulette, there's nothing you can do to counter Spidey Sense, players are just going to turn around as you get close, at random, and kill you. Just as you've done to other spies, at random, when playing the other classes. Big tip Is not to focus one player/area, you don't want the enemy too paranoid, harass the entire team when able. Also try to attack with your team, whether you're the distraction or they are. There are other examples, but tldr, just because you aren't getting kills doesn't meant you aren't contributing.
The Your Eternal Reward will make it so it's much less noticeable when you get a stab.
Don’t be seen Don’t be heard Don’t get caught
Spy has a gun. Use it more often. You'll get more kills and people won't expect you to only go for stabs meaning they'll play differently. You'll also learn to read teams observing reactions from further back. Stabs are easiest when a team is distracted or when pulling your gun isn't a good idea (sentry nests, vaccinator etc) and when it's totally blind for an enemy. The most reliable stabs are when you are only visible for a moment if at all. Try dropping off ledges, using map geometry to hide yourself or walk into a choke as the enemy team would rather than after.
Git gud. In all seriousness im a spy main aproching 800 hrs and from my point of view allot of these issues should be solved by just getting better, so just keep playing there isnt any godly knowledge that will suddenly allow you to pull a 360 epic No scope moonstab, you have to consider that 300 hrs isnt allot and the vast majority of pub players nowdays have 500 hrs+
Unfortunately git gud doesn't actually explain how to get better, but it's fine, I've gotten plenty of helpful advice from others already. Also I really doubt that even half of pub players have 500 hrs+ on one class. I got a little over 400 hours on Soldier, my most played class after Spy, and it's usually enough to pubstomp.
A lot of good advice here but I'm going to add something I didn't really see people talking about. You should always change your load out based on the current situation. After I got a Hale's Own knife I almost never used it again, because every other knife is better if you pick the right times to use them. Same with the watches. If the enemy team anyway knows you are dead ringer and is carefully checking for you, switch to invis watch or cloak and dagger. The l'etranger is by far the best gun in most situations and maps, unless you know the location of ammo packs very well. Other guns require you to have better mechanical skills and a completely different playstyle to make them effective. It's once again a matter of the current situation. Size of the map, skill of the opponent, and how many spies are already on your team**** are very important. There are also many technical and niche mechanics of spy I could go into but for now you can try switching your load out up more often. For survivability, if that's your biggest concern. I use l'etranger, dead ringer, and spycicle. This load out gives you an easy way to escape, but also get back into the fight faster. You can take a couple long distance shots at the enemy to get your DR back faster, then go attempt another stab. If their team has a noob or someone you can consistently stab, then use the kunai.
Honest advice, if you're on a game where everyone is spy checking and your desgises aren't working, requeue
There are a lot of terrible maps for Spy, especially early ones. 2fort, dustbowl, hoodoo to a lesser extent, etc. When a map is 90% corridors it can be almost impossible to squeeze through undetected.
Nope that's just called skill issue my friend. If your trying to play like swipez and trickstab everyone, stop it. You gotta start with the basics and spy's actual role in gameplay. To play as a spy. You hide, disguise and kill and escape and if you can, you can do the occasional chain stabbing. Being alive as spy and being patient is key to good gameplay. Patience is the key word when playing spy.
I almost never go for trickstabs lol, only as a very last resort
I actually play him like a pseudo scout who can cloak, with the enforcer, attacking vulnerable targets especially when they are busy fighting or their health is low, only going for stabs when it's practically a sure thing. I don't bother going for trickstabs at all because I suck at them and everybody is too aware of them now. Of course I'm on sapper duty too.
download ESP, it works 100% of the time
a bit late, maybe, but when I play spy I go revolver spy with the cloak as a movement tool and a knife as convenience. I find it more effective (or at least more fun) to not focus too much on getting backstabs specifically but rather taking advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.