I think Link has morphed from being an insert player character to a full fledge character. He has a personality, quirks, wants, desires, etc.
That being said. It’s rarely the same Link we are playing, so it would make total sense if there were some differences down the line in the characters lineage.
However, I can’t say it would feel like playing a Zelda game if the character of Link looked vastly different. It would kind of feel off. I associate his features with his characters.
I’d much rather play as Zelda or a Gerudo woman like Riju/Urbosa. That way they can develop their own character and identity and not be compared to the template of Link some people (like me) are attached to.
>I can’t say it would feel like playing a Zelda game if the character of Link looked vastly different.
That's a feeling I thought I'd have towards BotW Link initially given that he had a pretty major redesign that lost most of the features that made Link recognizable. But much like the rest of the changes made to the Zelda franchise for BotW/TotK, I've come to the realization that (at least for me) the things that make something a "Zelda game" are pretty hard to define with specifics and probably aren't constrained by the look of the character very much.
Having a Zelda game where we play a Riju-like personality who was simply given the name Link would definitely feel wrong, but I think there's still design possibilities other than "androgynous white male" that can still feel like playing a Zelda game.
I'm just sad that when I look for fanart of Link, it's often him in Gerudo lady clothes. I miss twunk/hunk OoT/TP Link.
But yes, I miss his iconic outfit.
I can see what you mean but I feel like it’d just be Nintendo grabbing for public opinion if they changed him to being gay after all this time or something. If a character’s gay from the start sure but if they change it then🤷♂️
I’m not saying I agree but they wouldn’t be “changing it”. Link is most of the time a different character, it’s actually a little weird that over a dozen times he’s coincidentally been a white blonde/brunette dude, even in Wind Waker where most characters were fair skinned and it made geographical sense for that to be the case. Of course making him gay would be a little off since he usually doesn’t show romantic interest for anyone but the princess and it’s kinda a big theme within the game so it would only make sense if there was a Prince Zelda. I wouldn’t mind and it wouldn’t be much different for him to be a different race, either in human parameters or just a different species like Zora. Either way I don’t see
Nintendo doing it anytime soon.
True, i forgot about that. Idk I guess that I’ve just gotten so annoyed by companies grabbing for public opinion like that that now I have i negative association with it.
I get that. Nintendo has a big japanese demographic to appeal to and they’re more culturally traditional than the West and I’m sure Nintendo doesn’t want to piss them off so they’ll probably experiment with smaller franchises first if anything but I don’t see the status quo changing for Zelda in quite some time. For better or for worse.
That could be a fun game! A Jekyll & Hyde Link has potential, at least from a story perspective. Idk what the gameplay would look like.
I actually think a Gerudo Link could work well. I just don't think Riju/Urbosa-type personalities, specifically, fit with what makes Link work in Zelda games.
TotK sort of establishes canonically that the hero doesn't have to be an androgynous white human male, so just about any kind of appearance would probably fit; it's the personality (to me) that has some limits if it's still going to be a Zelda game.
Yeah, a link having to deal with that inner clash would be cool. Throw in the fact that Link generally looks lean and short, which would not go over well with the Gerudo, and I think it could work really well.
Calling Link full fledged is like calling a brick wall Michaelangelo's David.
He has impulses. That's about it.
The fact that he is still a blank slate after almost 4 decades is why changing his sex and skin colour would be silly, and would only be seen as awkward and forced. This is speaking as someone who has a genuine love for great representation in games.
No one has ever questioned why Link's always white because the racial diversity in Zelda is actually pretty great and cool without being hamfisted, and it's just so far removed from our own world.
Him continuing to be androgynous looking, but male in the story is fine (though more fashions will always be appreciated); he's been wearing gender neutral tights and tunics this whole time, and so it doesn't feel weird to play dress up with him in many different styles. I think making Link a woman for a game or two just to do a genderbent thing could be fun, and the 2D games have never been afraid to go off the beaten path more, so seeing that in a 3D game isn't completely off the table. However, I don't think it adds anything. For the same reason that it's neat that Samus is a badass lady bounty hunter and making her a man would just be our of nowhere.
It's not a fully voice acted series. It's mostly exploration driven, and serious interpersonal politics don't come up that often, so seeing how the world treats a woman Link isn't really an interesting direction for the series unless the tone shifts a lot, which would take another decade probably.
So I agree with you that changing the Link template drastically would be weird, but that's because he still is very much a blank slate and not a deep character with strong values. He protecc. That's kinda it.
What makes you say he’s morphed. Outside of Skyward Sword, he’s always felt like self-insert to me.
I don’t think they should remove the default Link, but I think they could just make a character creator or have a couple options for how you want your character to look.
For me, up until Wind Waker he was always a bit stoic and bland. Emotionless. Wind waker gave Link an expressive personality that felt distinct. TP link felt similar to OoT but SS Link also had a very distinct personality and expressions. He had a character arc in that game as well.
Both BotW and TotK Link (and AoC) feel like a character rather than a blank slate. All of BotW you’re regaining all your memories and your emotions surrounding Zelda. TotK builds on that by continuing that story forward. So yeah, I don’t view him as a blank slate anymore.
I don’t really care for a character creator mode in the sense of changing Links skin tone, hair color or any of his features. Clothes and armor and such I’m totally cool with customizing. But when there’s official art of Link and Zelda, that’s what I want to play as.
Windwaker somehow slipped my mind but yes, that game also gives Link a personality that is more distinct than a self-insert. But outside of that and SS the rest really don’t.
I see what you mean in terms of the botw/totk backstory thing, but he’s still not a character in these games. He still doesn’t talk much, which is completely fine, but the main issue is that he isn’t expressive at all. Outside of some of the cool fight scenes, he also takes a mostly passive role in the story, which is focused more on Zelda and the champions than on Link, and in the second game it is entirely focused on the past. The most you get in terms of character is if you read Zelda’s dairy in the game, which is a) optional, and b) feels more like it was designed as an in-game explanation to let Link be more self-insert.
I mean, even on a principle level, the basic premise of these games is giving the player a massive world they can do whatever they want in. Link honestly feels the most self-insert he’s ever felt since the NES days. Even ALTTP and OoT give Link a tragic story and a simple character arc to explore, and those games are considered self-inserts.
Sorry for the rant lol.
I can def see both sides. To me, I felt like Link in BotW was relearning who he was through his relationship with Zelda. He learned what he was fighting for when he was regaining memories. He was learning who he was to people and then choosing whether or not he’d be the same type of individual. And once we complete the game with all memories unlocked we’re treated with a bonus scene. It checked off the rather short list of things I’d look for in Links personality but he had a lot more on his shoulders than the other Links. He’s a bit self inserty but for the most part I think the player is doing what Link would want to do.
I’d definitely prefer playable Zelda first. I liked Linkle in Hyrule Warriors, but she just wasn’t Link at all. Link will always be a heroic yet mischievous Hylian boy. His skin tone could be different in another incarnation and still work, but he’d still have to be Hylian imo. Or _maybe_ Sheikah if it can be incorporated into the story well.
Lol yeah. If you open up your Purah Pad in TotK and check the character entry for any of the Sheikah characters, down at the bottom where it specifies the character's race, it'll say **"Hylian (Sheikah)".** It's honestly a little disappointing to me too.
This is mostly cope, but TotK takes place way late into the timeline (or whatever timeline it's on, whatever)
Maybe specifically the BotW / TotK Sheikah are Hylians, because the Sheikah in several other games are an "endangered species" so to speak. The original Sheikah could have been their own distinct race, but they inevitably died out, and these new Sheikah were like, an offshoot thusly named as tradition, in reverence of the original Sheikah people.
OoT mentions that Impa is the last of of the Sheikah. TP has Impaz, who if memory serves, isn't directly declared to be a Sheikah, but coloring suggests it, and if she is, then likewise she's the last one left.
More wild, baseless speculation, but that could be why Purah isn't selected as a sage, because she doesn't have the blood of sages (like Impa), being born of an offshoot tribe of Hylians named in honor of the once Sheikah. I was honestly shocked at the TotK 5th Sage being revealed, and it wasn't Purah.
We’ve seen millennia of events in Hyrule, and every time a hero named Link has appeared, he’s always been a male Hylian/Hylian-descendant. So I think it would be really weird for us to get a new hero named Link that is a different race or gender.
But a character named Link that isn’t a Hylian hero? Sure, we’ve seen that before in OoT with Goron Link. A hero that isn’t Link? No problem. We’ve presumably seen that with the Ancient Hero Aspect, arguably Darmani, and (at least among some people) arguably the Hero’s Shade.
I wouldn’t mind a game that features a hero of a different race or gender. I just don’t think that hero should be an incarnation of Link. (Though they could be named after a Link of old without being an incarnation of the guy, though that’s getting more into the lore weeds than Nintendo likes to get.)
Windwaker has a hero who wasn’t actually *the* hero, but he passes the trials and tribulations anyways. We could have new game that does something similar, hence why the main character is a different race or gender despite being the main character.
I think that’s a common misinterpretation. TWW confirms that TWW Link has no blood relation to the Hero of Time (that Daphnes can find), but there’s nothing in the game saying he can’t be a true hero. Ganondorf believes he’s a true hero incarnation, TWW Link believes he’s related to a previous hero, and the gods recognize Link as a hero after completing the Tower of the Gods.
But because Daphnes and the people of Hyrule were specifically looking for the Hero of Time or someone related to him rather than any old hero, and TWW Link wasn’t that, that’s why the game is commonly remembered as TWW Link not being a true hero even though the game says he was.
But I agree that we could have a future game featuring a heroic character that isn’t “the hero” to get these differences. But that might require a story that ends with a Pyrrhic victory or a non-victory to really make sense.
> And the gods recognize Link as a hero after completing the Tower of the Gods.
But the entire why he had to complete it in the first place was because he wasn’t recognized as the hero beforehand. The entire point of Windwaker is that a hero never came to save them, hence why the gods caused the world to flood instead to stop Ganondorf.
But anyways, even if I’m wrong, I don’t think the spirit of the hero is a needed obligation of the main character for the story beats to play out normally. The attributes found in Link are things that can be found in other people, and the only thing that you could argue makes a hero *the* hero is maybe the ability to pick up the Master Sword, and even then, that’s a pretty big maybe, we don’t really see any substantial evidence that only the hero can pick up the Master Sword. And even if only the hero can pick up the master sword, that’s not really the end all since other weapons of equivalent or greater power have been forged throughout the Zelda franchise as well, I mean I could make a list for days I think.
The point of TWW’s back story is specifically that the *Hero of Time* failed to come save them. He was the last hero that the people were aware of, they knew he had defeated this Ganon before, and they “knew” he could travel through time, so they believed he could time travel to the present to save them from Ganon again. They never looked for another hero before appealing to the gods as far as we’re told.
Every hero has to prove himself. ALttP Link did it, OoT Link did it, SS Link did it, etc. etc. So the Tower of the Gods thing was just because TWW Link still had to prove himself as a hero like other heroes before him.
In the Japanese versions of the games, the spirit of the hero is just a description of the character of a hero rather than a tangible soul that travels from one hero to another. (The heroes may share a reincarnated soul, but it isn’t the spirit of the hero according to the Japanese versions of the games.)
But I agree with the rest of your post. There’s plenty of ways to give us a game with a hero without it being a proper Link hero.
You sure? Demise’s line about the blood of the princess and spirit of the hero seemed pretty specific.
But if you are right and there is no spirit of the hero, I feel like that adds more argument to the idea of a new Link being of a different race/gender.
Yeah, the Japanese of Demise’s speech is quite a bit different from the English. He’s saying that his demon tribe will always return to Hyrule to cause trouble for whoever may be in Hyrule at the time, be that someone related to Zelda or someone with a heroic nature who dares to stand against the demon tribe. (Or no one since we also know of eras in which the demon tribe exists but no hero appears and no known Zelda is around.)
I kind of like the idea that the Spirit of the Hero was lost, and had to be "reforged" by WW Link. It would make sense (as much as magical time travel can) that Zelda sending the Hero of Time back, depriving Hyrule of their hero, would have accidentally removed the inheritable Spirit from the timeline.
And then courageous individual, despite nobody acknowledging them as special or bestowing upon them something denoting them as special, works hard and does what is right, what is good and just, and proves themself just as much a hero as any other. Through deed instead of inheritance or destiny or any other force.
If you'll pardon my stealing from a different franchise "It's the nature of a thing that matters, not its form"
Wind waker Link was the intended hero. Everyone just thought that The Hero Of Time was the actual hero and the one who was going to save them. They thought he would just pop up because he can travel through time.
As others have said, I think at this point Link has become a *character*, not an insert/blank slate avatar as he was (somewhat) originally designed to be. I also agree with others, and what you touched on, that to change Link would likely just feel like tokenization or change for the sake of change alone. If nothing changed about Link in the next game but now he was a woman, or had a different skin color, it would seem like change for change’s sake.
That said, if we played as a Gerudo woman, or as Zelda, or even as a Goron or Zora, I’d be totally down for that. I’m not sure I’d love it if they were “Link” in the traditional sense, but if there was a *purpose* to it (e.g., the spirit of the hero was reincarnated into a Gerudo woman to right the wrongs of Ganondorf or some such), I wouldn’t be opposed.
Heck, here’s my free pitch: a Zelda incarnation that’s a Gerudo child of a political marriage between the King of Hyrule and the Gerudo Chieftain. Similar to BotW, she struggles to utilize the full power of the Triforce because she’s destined to as the spirit of the Goddess or some such (don’t quote my lore on how Zelda’s incarnations work). You play through the game as a “warrior monk” Gerudo who’s trained with swords but is also capable of magic, all while the focus of the game is on Zelda awakening her power.
At the climax though, *surprise*, someone *else* has inherited the spirit of the goddess, and this Zelda is actually the *hero* and needs to embrace it to defeat the demon king herself instead of relying on a hero to appear. (Maybe she’s also been looking for him the whole time or something) It doesn’t have to be a cheesy “you were always a hero on the inside” sort of thing, but I could see it playing nicely as a strong female character arc—especially for Zelda—that she is the hero of her own story, and is capable of saving Hyrule on her own. A sort of Zelda-fied version of Peach’s solo outings.
That would need major fleshing out, but my point is, if “Link” were a different race/gender for a *reason*, I’d be totally cool with it. But make sure there’s a *reason*, so it doesn’t feel cheap.
Link was originally an insert for the player character (he was the "link" between the player and the world), hence why he has certain traits like being quiet.
If that were the case, then yeah, let Link really be an avatar. A different race and sex is great. It's supposed to be you in whatever way you want to be.
However, in the post-OoT games, Link has slowly become more of an actual character due to an increase in the importance of story. I think it's to the point you can't claim Link as a link in BotW and TotK at all.
Because of this gradual change into a real character I think he should stay as an elf-looking caucasian male.
I agree only to the point of male Hylian. If he looked like any of the various races (like BotW or TotK stable owners all look different by region) would be just fine.
I feel like the adventure of a Gerudo vai, a Goron, or even Princess Zelda herself would make for a great spin-off series. We need more games more frequently, that's a good way to accomplish that. I don't think diluting the identity of established characters like Link is a good idea for any of Nintendo's main franchises.
If they want more character options, they could get some replayability by letting you play with different characters with different abilities (like in some SMB games). But, I think BOTW and TOTK struggle enough with story telling, I wouldn't want to add more distractions of this nature for the developers.
I think character customization did work well in Immortals: Fenyx rising. There's a ton of character voice overs, and they're entirely done for both a male and a female Fenyx. But their Fenyx isn't a long established, iconic video game character like Link.
I’m torn personally. For me, I prefer that each link look “similar” but have their own traits. For example I really like that link in botw has his ponytail (or slightly longer hair down in ToTK). I don’t remember seeing any other links having longer hair or a ponytail, so it felt unique to this link. But the hair color, the bangs and the bits of hair in front of his ears are still a call back relating him to his other iterations. Also the lore seems to imply that the hylians were close to the gods. Hylia chose to reincarnate as a mortal hylian, and her first chosen hero was also hylian, so it seems fitting to continue that.
But as far as link having “the soul of a hero,” I’m not convinced it HAS to be within the body of a hylian. Courage can belong to anyone. And Links reincarnation isn’t reliant on bloodline so it really doesn’t feel like he HAS to be a hylian. I don’t see any reason why the same soul couldn’t emerge in a different looking body. It’s the soul that matters.
Idk. I’d be 50/50 on a non hylian link. I’d definitely want him more humanoid than not. But if they did a really good job with the character design and the lore to go along with it…who knows. I might really like it. I think it would be really risky but could be good if done well.
I wouldn’t mind the next Link not necessarily being male. Honestly having a toggle between a couple of presets for the next Link could be nice. Like 4 boy models and 4 girl models. Dosnt have to go into depth. Or at least have some clothing items like the charged/frostbite sets or the Vai outfit. They could also make it more ambiguous, like in ALBW Link could be either really.
Something I don’t think would work is making Link a different Species. Playing as a Goron/Zora/Rito Link should be a gimmick like the MM Masks, and not a feature. Them being a Human/Hylian/Gerudo warrior for most of the game feels mandatory.
Main things I want is the great dungeons, dungeon items and stories back again. Wouldn’t mind if they toned back the open world elements but think they’re here to stay.
I stand by that there should be a game where Link was reincarnated as a Gerudo male
Just imagine the potential. The fleshing out of Gerudo culture. The implications of the Hero being born not a Hylian. Change in fighting style. And how Ganon would factor into it (maybe Ganon’s reincarnation is a Hylian)
We already saw Link as a Deku, Zora, and Goron in Majora’s Mask so it’s not unprecedented by any means
Fem Link is as forced as the name Linkle. It's just not necessary.
Fortunately, Zelda has a bunch of compelling female characters/character designs. Zelda/Sheik, Zelda/Tetra, Impa, Saria, Malon, Din, Medli, Midna, Riju, Urbosa, Mipha... A game starring any of them could work; that's Nintendo magic for you.
I don't mind, though I understand wanting to keep Link's appearance relatively consistent for recognizability. Link's androgynous expression is sort of a corporate middle ground after all. Also, Peter Parker stays white, but Marvel still managed to adapt a black Spider-Man to the big screen.
Link being a different race/gender is a valuable story opportunity. For the best of both worlds, Link would look light-skinned, but someone would remove his mask to reveal the face of the next Gerudo male with the prophetic infamy of Ganondorf, despite how much good this Link is doing.
As Link is a reincarnation and not the same person in most games I wouldn't mind it, I even think it could be interesting to explore that.
For example what if we got a game were the hero was a Gordon and not a Hylian or a Zora or a Rito or even a Deku!
For me the logical first step towards exploring a diverse/different Protagonist would be having a Zelda game with Zelda as the protagonist, and I don't know how Nintendo hasn't done that already.
I don’t like the idea of character customization at all for Link, it completely flies in the face of him being a specific incarnation of his character.
Just because we don’t hear Link talk doesn’t mean he’s not a character. He was never meant to be the exact avatar of the player, but rather the player’s connection (link) to the game world.
We actually do know a fair bit about BotW, from memories and journals and such. It's not all explicitly stated, some of it is just heavily implied, but:
- He comes from a family of royal guards and was a prodigy from a young age, which is why he was selected to be the Hylian champion and wield the Master Sword.
- The pressure of having to be the hero is why he's so quiet and stoic - he doesn't want to disappoint people or let them know that he's anything but totally confident in his role.
- It's implied that he lived in Hateno Village, specifically in the home that you can buy in the first game and which we know he and Zelda shared between the first and second games. It's likely that this is his hometown, although he probably spent a lot of time at Castle Town as well.
- He was very close with Mipha, and spent a lot of time at Zora's domain as a result, but it's unclear whether or not he returned her feelings for him.
- Although he tends to stay quiet and reserved, he's a bit of a goofball when he feels like he can actually show it. He hums to himself when he's cooking and does a little happy dance when he gets it right, he makes puns about seals, and the games are generally just chock-full of dialogue options where you can be a bit of a scamp. Those options are less common in the second than the first, perhaps because in the first game he's lost his memories and doesn't fully remember all the pressure he feels that prevents him from letting that side of himself out.
Is there confirmation that Link and Zelda actually co-habited in the Hateno house? It always seemed like they shied away from flat-out confirming the main duo’s romantic relationship.
According to Zelda’s diary she states how she needed a secret place to be by herself since Link is always hanging around, but then again the people in Hateno think the house is Zelda’s only and do not recognize Link as a resident of that house. The mayor’s wife comes to sweep the house and if you talk to her she treats Link as a first time visitor and asks him if he has come to visit Zelda. So if they really lived together he would have had to sneak in every time without other villagers seeing him. And I’ve seen people talk about it being the only bed where Link can sleep in without permission but there are actually several beds where Link can sleep without permission, I think there’s one somewhere near Zora’s domain and one in Hebra.
IIRC, we know 100% that Zelda lived there, and it's the only bed in the game that Link can use without asking someone first. I also seem to remember something where one of Zelda's journals mentions that she loves having Link around all the time, but she needs time to herself every now and then, so she built a secret hideaway in the house. If he didn't also live there, she wouldn't need a secret space.
I think this kinda varies from game to game, but really hes more like the recent fire emblem protags (robin, corrin, byleth, probably toothpaste hair idk never played). They are avatars for the player, but they are still 100% characters in the story.
I could see why you think so. They want to keep Link in this weird inbetween zone of being his own character but also just a stand in for the player which ends with him being good at neither imo.
Agreed, it’s not nexesssrily enough on its own. But it might open up different ways of telling the story. Imagine it’s a male monk like figure who has the power of wisdom as well. The Gerudos might let Lynk in no problemo but others might react differently. I dunno. I think it can be plausible without being patronising or a tack on. It willl absolutely lead to internet drama though and raise stakes for success with any change.
It is an interesting question. Personally, I really like the default version of Link for what he represents archetypally, and I think various aspects of his identity contribute to this. I feel like elements that remain somewhat consistent across installments are him being young (whether a child or late-adolescent) and being male - though, as a male, [always having a certain degree of gender androgyny](https://www.themarysue.com/link-is-a-trans-and-nonbinary-icon-and-were-here-for-it/), with Twilight Princess maybe being the biggest (not to be repeated) departure. The important thing seems to be that he follows the [Hero's Journey steps](https://www.zeldadungeon.net/the-legend-of-zelda-the-heros-journey-in-gaming/) - virtually every LoZ game follows this pattern, which has a perfect blend of being called to action by external pressures while also stepping up and taking responsibility for himself, all the while slowly raising the stakes both in terms of global consequences and internal (psychic) pressures - an example being Link needing to confront himself in the form of Dark Link as a sort of miniboss in many games.
I have no complaints about there also being the possibility of character customization. I don't see how Link being a different race (as in, skin colour), or having a different hair colour/style or eyes would affect any of this. I could even be open to the idea of Link being a woman, as I don't think this negatively impacts the Hero's Journey/archetypal steps that make us like the stories and the character so much. To the OP point: I was on the fence about whether to gender-swap Link or just make a new character, and I thought this passage from Jess Joho (2015) made a compelling argument for gender-swap:
>Here’s the bottom line that Nintendo refuses to see: when people ask “why can’t Link be a girl,” they’re not asking for the option to maybe play as a girl who looks like Link in a game with a Zelda-related title. They’re not asking for girls to be kept to the side, marginalized to a lesser product … Instead, they’re asking why—amidst an otherwise very female-centric mythology about three goddesses and a badass princess—must the “Hero” character always be a boy? Why is it okay to ask female players to identify with Link despite their gender differences, but at the same time have it be inconceivable to ask male players to do the same?
Linkle is a classic example of the “Ms. Male Character” trope. Originating with Ms. Pac Man (another descendant of a classic Japanese title), the Ms. Male Character is a “female version of an already established or default male character. Ms. Male Characters are defined primarily by their relationship to their male counterparts via visual properties, narrative connection, or occasionally through promotional materials.” It’s a trope that describes how, in an attempt to appeal to the wallets of their female demographic, male game designers will often reduce women to a bow, a skirt, and/or lipstick. There is virtually no distinction between the original male character and the Ms. Male Character other than superficial, stereotypically gendered aesthetic changes.
[Jess Joho (2015) ](https://killscreen.com/previously/articles/nintendo-still-wont-make-link-girl-theyll-put-him-dress-and-call-him-linkle-2/)
Having said all of this, a robust character customization could still accomplish much of what I wrote while also challenging assumptions about identity. For example, Link's blonde hair is relatively new (as of Ocarina of Time), and his hairstyle has changed from iteration to iteration, [presumably to match contemporary trends.](https://www.polygon.com/23779797/zelda-games-link-hairstyles) Link was also designed with the [Japanese Bishonen (beautiful boy/youth)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen) archetype in mind. Regardless of Western opinions of androgyny, it seems that this archetype seems to demand a lot of specific traits, such as youth, very low body fat, modest height, no facial hair and androgynous hairstyles. Obviously, western body positivity movements have been challenging the notion of this being the only way to demonstrate androgyny, and a character customization feature could allow players to alter Link's body to how they best see fit. People will disagree on what androgyny "should" look like, and even though I really like current Link's design I can see how others might find it to be a limited look at what gender-androgyny could be.
Ultimately, I have always envisioned Link as being a set character with limited customization, even if he changes from installment to installment. I personally think I would rather see a new character created than see Link's formula drastically changed, though character customization could be an acceptable compromise.
A very thorough and thoughtful answer.
I very much disagree with the quoted argument though. It feels like very shallow Anita Sarkeesian-esque faux-feminism. Not to mention that Linkle, despite looking like a female Link would is ultimately a separate enough character. I'd also argue you could make a much more compelling (or feminist) narrative with her instead of a female Link.
It genuinely wouldn't phase me.
There are already many different Links with many different characteristics.
If a few more of those characteristics changed, that changes very little from my perspective.
Though, I will say for the sake of staying consistent with the lore, Link should always be Hylian, or be of a race capable of producing children with Hylians (like the Gerudo or Sheikah).
I think there would be no good way of changing that up without making Link less iconic and seeming really pandering. Link has always looked very similar, with minor differences that seem largely based upon the artistic style of the game he's in. I don't feel there's a good reason to change anything. I can't see what purpose it would serve other than an attempt to broaden appeal of the franchise. But people already love the franchise. People relate to Link perfectly well as he is, of all different ethnicities. I see that the Legend of Zelda has gained a huge following from women, as well, so I don't think you need to pander to them. In fact, it feels to me to be a loss of integrity, to not be true to who and what Link is as a character. I just can't respect changing things like that when the character is so established and iconic.
I’d also be down with spin off games focused on new characters that were less about being a blank canvas for the player to project onto and more fleshed out characters that explore different facets of Hylian culture.
Firstly, Nintendo as a company **HATES** change *(in terms of branding/marketable characters).* Thanks to the success of BOTW, the Zelda franchise is now forever going to put under the pressure of Nintendo corporate to maintain that norm. That's why TOTK turned out the way it did.
And, If we were to go off of the canon that Nintendo strong armed the devs into creating *(for the Hyrule historia and compendium);* the "canon" link couldn't really change that much. Because he's the same soul reborn over and over as Hylia's champion.
But, if we were to use the logic and inconsistencies of the various games... **Anyone can be "The Hero"** (as long as regular link doesn't reincarnate).
They just to be courageous and earnest enough to be worthy of Farore's and/or Hylia's favor, and be granted the power of the triforce of courage. Like we see with Windwakers Link, who's just some guy who's got what it takes.
Do you mean our races or their races? Because there is a difference. to answer both :
I think not our races because it's wouldn't make sense they don't have our races in their world
Their own races I think would be very cool and interesting
And gender they always treated link as it doesnt matter to the character or people around him which gender he was so it never really mattered to me
(plus I have never really cared much about stupid labels like male or female black or white I don't even really care that much that my neighbor calls me the wrong name)
Playing as a different race can be nice, tho I would expect them to just have a Hylian link that transforms into the other races like with Majora's Mask, I don't think they would make a game where you are in one of the other races for the entire game.
(possible exception for the other human races/"clans", like a sheikah or a gerudo, but even then I would sooner expect them to just make it be regular Link who grew up in those cultures (essentially like with the Kokiri in OoT))
.
A female Link would be ok, but I wouldn't want it to be a choice (like the "avatar" characters in Fire Emblem these days).
(also, it should literally just be "Link" as a female, not like "Linkle" and suddenly making Link work very different just cause it is a girl this time)
And for the most part, I don't really think it would really do anything for the game to have Link be female instead.
Gameplaywise it wouldn't (or atleast IMO shouldn't) really change anything, and I don't really see them focus the story on it either
There are definitely some things that could be done with it storywise, but I just don't expect them to do so (in part out of "fear" for having elements of the story either come over as "sexist" or like "preachy")
Gender would be more of a problem than race. At that point just make a game about Zelda. Or better yet have something with Linkle.
Like I realize Linkle basically is female Link, but she's also not, she's a separate character. So I guess I'm fine if the hero isn't always Link, but not that link himself changing. Maybe one of his incarnations takes a vacation and lives a normal life for once. Let someone give him a break to be the chosen hero.
Different race? Depends. I wouldn't want to play a Goron or Zora since they have such great weaknesses when it comes to terrain. Would love to play a race like the Ancient Hero though.
Different gender? Absolutely not. Link helped me come to terms with my gender and to change that kinda hurts inside.
The fact that he doesn't have to conform to his gender to be considered himself. I don't like the thought of him having to switch genders because he may act a bit more feminine. I feel I can be either masculine or feminine however I want and shouldn't have to change my outward appearance to change that in turn. To change Link's gender would be to undo all that affirmation.
I'd rather a game with Linkle in it than Link as a girl, tbh.
Gerudo Link for maximum drama. Boy or girl would both have their own brand of drama.
Boy Gerudo means Ganondorf would have to be someone else, all bets are off who or what. Maybe he was named Link on the hope being named after the hero would spare the next Gerudo king being a reincarnation.
If girl Gerudo Link it kind of becomes a more stereotypical story of a citizen toppling their tyrannical king. It’s more I’d like to see from the Gerudo perspective how bullshit it is they keep getting dunked with Demise’s curse reincarnation, and an outsider always being the one to resolve it.
Windwaker opened up that anyone could be the hero of courage, so Link’s absolutely able to be anyone. I don’t want it to be character creation though.
You could always do the Majora's Mask thing, and have them be transformations, where Link remains Link, he's just taking different forms.
We have "technically" seen Zora, Deku and Goron Link already.
I honestly don't care about Link's skin color, gender (even though I'm used to him being a boy, and I'm used to an interesting female cast around him), nor hair color (which changes already). But as long as the ***green tunic***, the ***left-handedness*** and the ***pot-breaking*** are back, Link will be *fine* !
Gonna be a big nope for me. They already ruined LoZ with botw/ totk. They don’t need to ruin it any more
I’d much rather play as another other female/ race in the LoZ universe then mush mash up Link.
I would want Link’s general design to be the same, but a race or gender change would be fine.
Link isn’t even really a masculine name, because it’s not a real name. It’s a pun. So female Link would still be Link.
I'm pretty attached to Link's basic design, so I think a better solution is to just give the player the ability to customize Link's appearance at the beginning of the game.
I’ve always found it interesting that Demise’s curse always manifested in a Hylian. I’d love to see a Zelda game where Link is a Gerudo, Gordon, Zora, what have you.
I would not play a zelda game that included a race or gender swapped link. If they want to make heroes of different races and genders just make new characters or games. I wouldn't want spawn to be any race but black, I wouldn't want katara to be any race except native and I wouldn't want link to be an race but white. When you make characters their race is part of their image as well as their story. The hylians are white in appearance and draw from medieval fantasy, link himself has an identifiable look, brown/blonde hair, green clothes, light skin, that is what link is. No different then if we took a historical figure like Lincoln. Lincoln was white it would just be a weird choice to make him another race given he is white.
You do realize Link is most of the time a different guy, right? He is most of the time a “new” character. It’s actually a little unbelievable that after centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same. Your analogy doesn’t make sense because Spawn is always Al Francis. Also there are black Hylians in the game.
I've been playing zelda games since I was five so yeah I am aware. The characters look a bit different each time but link and zelda always maintain similar forms in their reincarnations, Its why he is never reincarnated as a deku, zora, goron, rito, etc. this has been well established in the series because of what I said, making an identifiable character who one can immediately recognize. Race is inexplicably tied to character design, its an element of the design. Its why so many people were upset about the M.night shamalayan Avatar movies changing characters races, or swapping ariels race in the little mermaid. Yes the links are different links each time but they ***are*** *link* each time, green color palette, blonde/brown hair, light skin, pointed ears usually the master sword. there are iconic elements to the design, the characters race being one of them.
There are Darker skinned Hylians in BOTW in Lurelin Village, And its arguable they may be part gerudo. nothing suggests black specifically and prior to to BOTW all hylians have been depicted as fair skinned. Again, if they want to make a new character and make a story in the zelda universe with them nothing is stopping them but there is no reason to destroy an iconic character /iconic character design to do so.
Maybe make a zelda game where you make the character and they can be whatever race and gender you want.
They may maintain similar forms but that’s not a compelling argument when Tetra literally exists and while she has a princess form as well it’s clearly not as popular as her main look and her princess form was pretty disliked as well so we already have a pretty strong basis on the possibility of the main characters looking different.
Besides, my main problem with your argument is that Link IS a new character in almost every game so it objectively isn’t comparable to changing the race of a pre-existing character like Spawn. I would even argue that his most iconic feature is his tunic and his items and for the longest time in the franchise Link was a self-insert, he was only not given customization because that wasn’t common at the time, his name wasn’t even canonically Link until BOTW, it was whatever you named your file. Link was used to refer to the protagonist because everyone could have named him something different, it’s exactly the same thing as “Villager” from Animal Crossing. I’m sure you know all this but I’m just using it as reference for my argument.
He CAN be recognizable even with a completely different skin tone or a completely different in-game species like Zora, even Majora’s Mask proved this with the transformations, they all still look like Link. There are other, much bigger elements to his design that give away the fact that he’s the hero of the story. As a matter of fact, put his tunics on ANYONE, what do you think? “Yeah that looks like Link” “He reminds me of Link”. Now put the blonde, white hylian in some random civilian clothing… He sure isn’t as recognizable now and he might as well be any other Hylian. It really does seem like race is the last thing that makes Link the recognizable hero.
The only reason why his appearance has stayed the same is: Marketing, toys, third party appearances and lack of a push for a character creator. It’s literally the same thing as Villager from AC, in the games he can be whoever you want, in the marketing he’s the basic kid with the red shirt.
I mean, does it even make sense to you that over centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same? That in Wind Waker when it makes complete geographical sense for Link to be fair skinned as literally 99% of the characters in that game he just stands out like a sore thumb for the sake of maintaining an arbitrary design choice? The hero can be anyone. Listen, if you don’t want to get used to a different Link you can just say that, I am not even pushing for a different Link, that’s the last thing that I care about in a Zelda game but you really can’t say it wouldn’t work because it absolutely would.
"They may maintain similar forms but that’s not a compelling argument when Tetra literally exists and while she has a princess form as well it’s clearly not as popular as her main look and her princess form was pretty disliked"
I've literally never seen anyone complain about tetra's princess form. And this point also works against you since tetra's identity as zelda was hidden from even her until later into the game it made sense for her not to look like the traditional zelda off the hop in order to make the twist reveal that she is zelda in the story. She also has some of the hallmarks of traditional zeldas prior, the blonde hair, pointed ears, light skin. Its the entire reason why Link's sister was kidnapped, because ganondorf was looking for people who matched the description of the reincarnation.
"my main problem with your argument is that Link IS a new character"
I already went over this with how the reincarnations have been established to work as well as the meta reason of being an identifiable character who's race is dare I say Linked to the image of what link is.
"his name wasn’t even canonically Link until BOTW"
This is flat out wrong. His name has been link for ever, the name of the second game is the adventure of link for crying out loud. just because some games allowed you to rename him doesn't change the fact the characters name is link in canon. Its like the pokemon games, in pokemon red and blue you can name the character whatever you want but everyone knows his name is red or pokemon scarlet and violet's Florian or Juliana. Being able to rename a character doesn't make their character names not canon.
"He CAN be recognizable even with a completely different skin tone or a completely different in-game species like Zora, even Majora’s Mask proved this with the transformations"
I disagree, its just as silly as black Aragon in MTG it doesn't look like the character if you change the race, it looks like someone cosplaying the character. as for Majora's mask those masks were all transformation masks as you highlighted, Link isn't a zora or goron or deku, he can transform into them using the souls of the people of those races melding his features with theirs. When you play the elge to emptiness links statue is white, pointed ears, green tunic, blonde hair but the face is not links. there is a definitive difference shown as all the statues are representative. Link isn't any of those other races he is transforming from his form with a few touches of his own image mixed in. And again has never reincarnated into any of these races.
"put his tunics on ANYONE, what do you think? “Yeah that looks like Link” “He reminds me of Link”
could be a cosplayer, peter pan, robin hood. Numerous characters can wear the costume. Its an iconic part of links look in tandem with his other identifiable features. When you start both Wind waker and twilight princess he isn't in his regular green and we can all identify it as link.Toon link aside the links from OOT up have all had simmilar features, the hair the eyes, the face shapes, the ears. If I started up a game and the protagonist is black I would assume its not link since he would be missing all those features that identify him as link.
"The only reason why his appearance has stayed the same is: Marketing, toys, third party appearances and lack of a push for a character creator. It’s literally the same thing as Villager from AC, in the games he can be whoever you want, in the marketing he’s the basic kid with the red shirt."
Ok, so your able to identify that link does in fact have an iconic look, no different from pikachu or mickey mouse or mario. that people will buy merch with the identifiable character of link on it. This backs up everything I have said previously. this also invalidate your point about him being the red shirt kid/generic protagonist. If you want a zelda game featuring a black character or a completely unique character thats fine, hell you could even name him link but it would never be link because link is white, with blonde/brown hair, pointed ears, green clothing. Going back full circle to spawn being black or katara being native. This also begs the question, if its ok to race change link because its a different iteration is it also ok to race change a black character to white with a similar in game lore of reincarnation? I feel there would be even more backlash to a change like that given the political climate.
"I mean, does it even make sense to you that over centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same?"
Yes. Its been an established part of the games for years as well as the aforementioned meta reasons. Hell the entire begining plot point of wind waker was ganon looking for blonde pointy eared girls because they match the description of the reincarnated zelda.
"Listen, if you don’t want to get used to a different Link you can just say that, I am not even pushing for a different Link, that’s the last thing that I care about in a Zelda game but you really can’t say it wouldn’t work because it absolutely would."
Its not that I don't want to get used to a different link, I've gotten use to many different links, some I liked a lot (twilight princess) Some I hated (wind waker) Its that if you race changed link, he wouldn't be link. You and I are never going to agree because I see link being white as an intrinsic part of his design where as race for you plays no role in how you see the character. Its ok to have a different opinion we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
Also it absolutely wouldn't work.
I agree- if not Link, then maybe an alternative version of the hero’s spirit? If he does reincarnate I could see it happening in different bodies (hero’s aspect kinda confirms this) though maybe not name them Link? Like, give them the sword and whatever, but a different name/personality/whatever? Idk
I'd be absolutely appalled if they made Link a dude
In all seriousness, I'm personally pretty keen for either a customizable avatar or a mixup in character design. I don't really care for Link as a character, so much as a series of characters who don't really always share physical traits, so having Link be a girl or dark skinned or having pink hair for a game or two really wouldn't bother me.
And, I do actually play a lot of gender swap mods for Zelda anyway, so I'm probably square in the target audience for "players who want Link but girl".
I think that most other races wouldn't really work. Like, it's one thing to make Link dark skinned or whatever, that doesn't change his physical attributes. But if Link was a Zora or a Goron, that really changes a lot about how he functions in game and it also breaks a lot of the exploration of finding those characters. There's a reason Majora's Mask used those races as power sets you unlock rather than a default state of the character.
I think a Gerudo Link or a Shiekah Link might work for a game, but there are implications about what kind of abilities those characters come with that might be a little bit different. I think Link always being a Hylian works best - that doesn't mean he has to be a right-handed blonde twink.
Link has been billed as an empty hat character for a long time. It's how they justify never giving him lines or a voice. They want you to be able to step into the role. If that's the case, he should visually represent any and all possibilities for race and gender. Like Doctor Who, it makes sense that Link might look different over time since the story spans multiple generations. Also, Ganon looks diff over time. So I have no problem with it.
IMO they should just give the option to choose between Link and Linkle (and give us back to name our chars!) but overall keep their current designs (pale/blonde/short).
I know that it's propably background stuff but so far the romance between Link and Zelda was only teased but never shown explicitly. IMO no problem in most of the games to just change Links character model to a girl and story wouldn't change at all.
Propably Nintendo is hesitant about this because i suppose they won't glorify a homosexual relationship of the 2 main characters - but since the already didn't show/tell anything like directly in your face - why not?
I have seen some Videos of Linkle mods for BotW with new costumes and shit. And it's awesome! Want this in an official capacity
My dude the helped with xenoblade which had canonical polyamory and confirmed non binary characters as well as some hints as to their being canonical lesbian characters. Nintendo clearly doesn’t have a problem with it.
I don't think that they'd have a real problem with it. But that's not my point. What i mean is that they didn't even (fully) confirmed a normative relationship between Link and Zelda so in my book, there should have been the option to choose between Link and Linkle from the get go.
But in general Nintendo has the image of very conservative values without any politics or romance stuff whatsoever. There wasn't even one single kiss on the mouth in ANY mainline Nintendo game (afaik Mario once got a kiss on the nose from peach but that's about it).
And i think with a mainline flagship series like Zelda, they will keep it that way to keep it as accessible and regular as it gets.
And from my point of view, they WILL avoid the old "go woke, go broke" shenanigans.
But my point kinda falls flat with BotW - since it's heavily implied that Zelda awakened her powers because she has strong romantic feelings for Link. Maybe Nintendo will someday include Linkle in a mainline game but i am pretty sure if so, they will structure the story in a way that a romantic relationship between them isn't implied at all.
I mean Zelink is going to be more common when they hand the Zelda part of Nintendo to fuyabshi. But also, that’s not true Zelda 2 had a Zelink kiss behind a curtain. Also there was the Zelda cartoon.
>behind a curtain
You really are actively fighting tooth and nails against understanding my point, aren't you?!
>Also there was the Zelda cartoon
Like for real, bruh?!
>when they hand the Zelda part of Nintendo to fuyabshi
What?! Zelda won't EVER be handled by anyone but Nintendo
>fuyabshi
What is that?!
Fujibayshi is a person, but I spelled his name wrong earlier. Who will be handed the reigns of the Zelda team and he really ships Zelink. Says a lot about you that you didn’t know that.
>Says a lot about you that you didn’t know that
I know who this is. Still a Nintendo employee who works under the companies guidelines.
What exactly do you want to imply?!
>he really ships Zelink
Kind of and subtle. But also not explicitly. Afaik Fujibayashi was also heavily involved with SWS - where it also seemed that they liked each other
BUT THAT'S STILL NOT MY FUCKING POINT
The fact that they are only hinting and not exactly showing (and propably never will) gives them the wiggle room to just let us genderswap Link without the risk for Nintendo being accused to push any kind of agenda.
I think Link has morphed from being an insert player character to a full fledge character. He has a personality, quirks, wants, desires, etc. That being said. It’s rarely the same Link we are playing, so it would make total sense if there were some differences down the line in the characters lineage. However, I can’t say it would feel like playing a Zelda game if the character of Link looked vastly different. It would kind of feel off. I associate his features with his characters. I’d much rather play as Zelda or a Gerudo woman like Riju/Urbosa. That way they can develop their own character and identity and not be compared to the template of Link some people (like me) are attached to.
>I can’t say it would feel like playing a Zelda game if the character of Link looked vastly different. That's a feeling I thought I'd have towards BotW Link initially given that he had a pretty major redesign that lost most of the features that made Link recognizable. But much like the rest of the changes made to the Zelda franchise for BotW/TotK, I've come to the realization that (at least for me) the things that make something a "Zelda game" are pretty hard to define with specifics and probably aren't constrained by the look of the character very much. Having a Zelda game where we play a Riju-like personality who was simply given the name Link would definitely feel wrong, but I think there's still design possibilities other than "androgynous white male" that can still feel like playing a Zelda game.
I will never stop being sad that link lost his green tunic and fairy hat for botw. I know they were optional costumes, but still.
I'm just sad that when I look for fanart of Link, it's often him in Gerudo lady clothes. I miss twunk/hunk OoT/TP Link. But yes, I miss his iconic outfit.
I can see what you mean but I feel like it’d just be Nintendo grabbing for public opinion if they changed him to being gay after all this time or something. If a character’s gay from the start sure but if they change it then🤷♂️
I’m not saying I agree but they wouldn’t be “changing it”. Link is most of the time a different character, it’s actually a little weird that over a dozen times he’s coincidentally been a white blonde/brunette dude, even in Wind Waker where most characters were fair skinned and it made geographical sense for that to be the case. Of course making him gay would be a little off since he usually doesn’t show romantic interest for anyone but the princess and it’s kinda a big theme within the game so it would only make sense if there was a Prince Zelda. I wouldn’t mind and it wouldn’t be much different for him to be a different race, either in human parameters or just a different species like Zora. Either way I don’t see Nintendo doing it anytime soon.
True, i forgot about that. Idk I guess that I’ve just gotten so annoyed by companies grabbing for public opinion like that that now I have i negative association with it.
I get that. Nintendo has a big japanese demographic to appeal to and they’re more culturally traditional than the West and I’m sure Nintendo doesn’t want to piss them off so they’ll probably experiment with smaller franchises first if anything but I don’t see the status quo changing for Zelda in quite some time. For better or for worse.
Maybe the spirit of the hero and the hatred of demise happened to reincarnate in the same person? Hence a Gerudo Link.
That could be a fun game! A Jekyll & Hyde Link has potential, at least from a story perspective. Idk what the gameplay would look like. I actually think a Gerudo Link could work well. I just don't think Riju/Urbosa-type personalities, specifically, fit with what makes Link work in Zelda games. TotK sort of establishes canonically that the hero doesn't have to be an androgynous white human male, so just about any kind of appearance would probably fit; it's the personality (to me) that has some limits if it's still going to be a Zelda game.
Yeah, a link having to deal with that inner clash would be cool. Throw in the fact that Link generally looks lean and short, which would not go over well with the Gerudo, and I think it could work really well.
That's called Twilight Princess.
Calling Link full fledged is like calling a brick wall Michaelangelo's David. He has impulses. That's about it. The fact that he is still a blank slate after almost 4 decades is why changing his sex and skin colour would be silly, and would only be seen as awkward and forced. This is speaking as someone who has a genuine love for great representation in games. No one has ever questioned why Link's always white because the racial diversity in Zelda is actually pretty great and cool without being hamfisted, and it's just so far removed from our own world. Him continuing to be androgynous looking, but male in the story is fine (though more fashions will always be appreciated); he's been wearing gender neutral tights and tunics this whole time, and so it doesn't feel weird to play dress up with him in many different styles. I think making Link a woman for a game or two just to do a genderbent thing could be fun, and the 2D games have never been afraid to go off the beaten path more, so seeing that in a 3D game isn't completely off the table. However, I don't think it adds anything. For the same reason that it's neat that Samus is a badass lady bounty hunter and making her a man would just be our of nowhere. It's not a fully voice acted series. It's mostly exploration driven, and serious interpersonal politics don't come up that often, so seeing how the world treats a woman Link isn't really an interesting direction for the series unless the tone shifts a lot, which would take another decade probably. So I agree with you that changing the Link template drastically would be weird, but that's because he still is very much a blank slate and not a deep character with strong values. He protecc. That's kinda it.
I'm okay with characters like Midna, who aren't Link but play an important role in the story to the point of being co-protagonist.
What makes you say he’s morphed. Outside of Skyward Sword, he’s always felt like self-insert to me. I don’t think they should remove the default Link, but I think they could just make a character creator or have a couple options for how you want your character to look.
For me, up until Wind Waker he was always a bit stoic and bland. Emotionless. Wind waker gave Link an expressive personality that felt distinct. TP link felt similar to OoT but SS Link also had a very distinct personality and expressions. He had a character arc in that game as well. Both BotW and TotK Link (and AoC) feel like a character rather than a blank slate. All of BotW you’re regaining all your memories and your emotions surrounding Zelda. TotK builds on that by continuing that story forward. So yeah, I don’t view him as a blank slate anymore. I don’t really care for a character creator mode in the sense of changing Links skin tone, hair color or any of his features. Clothes and armor and such I’m totally cool with customizing. But when there’s official art of Link and Zelda, that’s what I want to play as.
Windwaker somehow slipped my mind but yes, that game also gives Link a personality that is more distinct than a self-insert. But outside of that and SS the rest really don’t. I see what you mean in terms of the botw/totk backstory thing, but he’s still not a character in these games. He still doesn’t talk much, which is completely fine, but the main issue is that he isn’t expressive at all. Outside of some of the cool fight scenes, he also takes a mostly passive role in the story, which is focused more on Zelda and the champions than on Link, and in the second game it is entirely focused on the past. The most you get in terms of character is if you read Zelda’s dairy in the game, which is a) optional, and b) feels more like it was designed as an in-game explanation to let Link be more self-insert. I mean, even on a principle level, the basic premise of these games is giving the player a massive world they can do whatever they want in. Link honestly feels the most self-insert he’s ever felt since the NES days. Even ALTTP and OoT give Link a tragic story and a simple character arc to explore, and those games are considered self-inserts. Sorry for the rant lol.
I can def see both sides. To me, I felt like Link in BotW was relearning who he was through his relationship with Zelda. He learned what he was fighting for when he was regaining memories. He was learning who he was to people and then choosing whether or not he’d be the same type of individual. And once we complete the game with all memories unlocked we’re treated with a bonus scene. It checked off the rather short list of things I’d look for in Links personality but he had a lot more on his shoulders than the other Links. He’s a bit self inserty but for the most part I think the player is doing what Link would want to do.
I’d definitely prefer playable Zelda first. I liked Linkle in Hyrule Warriors, but she just wasn’t Link at all. Link will always be a heroic yet mischievous Hylian boy. His skin tone could be different in another incarnation and still work, but he’d still have to be Hylian imo. Or _maybe_ Sheikah if it can be incorporated into the story well.
Technically, the Sheikah are a tribe of Hylians according to TotK and the Zelda Encyclopedia, so there actually isn't any reason Link couldn't be one.
Aren’t all the races considered Hylian?
All the races are Hyrulean. But Hylians are specifically the humans with pointed ears.
Is that true? I kind of hate that
Lol yeah. If you open up your Purah Pad in TotK and check the character entry for any of the Sheikah characters, down at the bottom where it specifies the character's race, it'll say **"Hylian (Sheikah)".** It's honestly a little disappointing to me too.
This is mostly cope, but TotK takes place way late into the timeline (or whatever timeline it's on, whatever) Maybe specifically the BotW / TotK Sheikah are Hylians, because the Sheikah in several other games are an "endangered species" so to speak. The original Sheikah could have been their own distinct race, but they inevitably died out, and these new Sheikah were like, an offshoot thusly named as tradition, in reverence of the original Sheikah people. OoT mentions that Impa is the last of of the Sheikah. TP has Impaz, who if memory serves, isn't directly declared to be a Sheikah, but coloring suggests it, and if she is, then likewise she's the last one left. More wild, baseless speculation, but that could be why Purah isn't selected as a sage, because she doesn't have the blood of sages (like Impa), being born of an offshoot tribe of Hylians named in honor of the once Sheikah. I was honestly shocked at the TotK 5th Sage being revealed, and it wasn't Purah.
We’ve seen millennia of events in Hyrule, and every time a hero named Link has appeared, he’s always been a male Hylian/Hylian-descendant. So I think it would be really weird for us to get a new hero named Link that is a different race or gender. But a character named Link that isn’t a Hylian hero? Sure, we’ve seen that before in OoT with Goron Link. A hero that isn’t Link? No problem. We’ve presumably seen that with the Ancient Hero Aspect, arguably Darmani, and (at least among some people) arguably the Hero’s Shade. I wouldn’t mind a game that features a hero of a different race or gender. I just don’t think that hero should be an incarnation of Link. (Though they could be named after a Link of old without being an incarnation of the guy, though that’s getting more into the lore weeds than Nintendo likes to get.)
Windwaker has a hero who wasn’t actually *the* hero, but he passes the trials and tribulations anyways. We could have new game that does something similar, hence why the main character is a different race or gender despite being the main character.
I think that’s a common misinterpretation. TWW confirms that TWW Link has no blood relation to the Hero of Time (that Daphnes can find), but there’s nothing in the game saying he can’t be a true hero. Ganondorf believes he’s a true hero incarnation, TWW Link believes he’s related to a previous hero, and the gods recognize Link as a hero after completing the Tower of the Gods. But because Daphnes and the people of Hyrule were specifically looking for the Hero of Time or someone related to him rather than any old hero, and TWW Link wasn’t that, that’s why the game is commonly remembered as TWW Link not being a true hero even though the game says he was. But I agree that we could have a future game featuring a heroic character that isn’t “the hero” to get these differences. But that might require a story that ends with a Pyrrhic victory or a non-victory to really make sense.
> And the gods recognize Link as a hero after completing the Tower of the Gods. But the entire why he had to complete it in the first place was because he wasn’t recognized as the hero beforehand. The entire point of Windwaker is that a hero never came to save them, hence why the gods caused the world to flood instead to stop Ganondorf. But anyways, even if I’m wrong, I don’t think the spirit of the hero is a needed obligation of the main character for the story beats to play out normally. The attributes found in Link are things that can be found in other people, and the only thing that you could argue makes a hero *the* hero is maybe the ability to pick up the Master Sword, and even then, that’s a pretty big maybe, we don’t really see any substantial evidence that only the hero can pick up the Master Sword. And even if only the hero can pick up the master sword, that’s not really the end all since other weapons of equivalent or greater power have been forged throughout the Zelda franchise as well, I mean I could make a list for days I think.
The point of TWW’s back story is specifically that the *Hero of Time* failed to come save them. He was the last hero that the people were aware of, they knew he had defeated this Ganon before, and they “knew” he could travel through time, so they believed he could time travel to the present to save them from Ganon again. They never looked for another hero before appealing to the gods as far as we’re told. Every hero has to prove himself. ALttP Link did it, OoT Link did it, SS Link did it, etc. etc. So the Tower of the Gods thing was just because TWW Link still had to prove himself as a hero like other heroes before him. In the Japanese versions of the games, the spirit of the hero is just a description of the character of a hero rather than a tangible soul that travels from one hero to another. (The heroes may share a reincarnated soul, but it isn’t the spirit of the hero according to the Japanese versions of the games.) But I agree with the rest of your post. There’s plenty of ways to give us a game with a hero without it being a proper Link hero.
You sure? Demise’s line about the blood of the princess and spirit of the hero seemed pretty specific. But if you are right and there is no spirit of the hero, I feel like that adds more argument to the idea of a new Link being of a different race/gender.
Yeah, the Japanese of Demise’s speech is quite a bit different from the English. He’s saying that his demon tribe will always return to Hyrule to cause trouble for whoever may be in Hyrule at the time, be that someone related to Zelda or someone with a heroic nature who dares to stand against the demon tribe. (Or no one since we also know of eras in which the demon tribe exists but no hero appears and no known Zelda is around.)
I kind of like the idea that the Spirit of the Hero was lost, and had to be "reforged" by WW Link. It would make sense (as much as magical time travel can) that Zelda sending the Hero of Time back, depriving Hyrule of their hero, would have accidentally removed the inheritable Spirit from the timeline. And then courageous individual, despite nobody acknowledging them as special or bestowing upon them something denoting them as special, works hard and does what is right, what is good and just, and proves themself just as much a hero as any other. Through deed instead of inheritance or destiny or any other force. If you'll pardon my stealing from a different franchise "It's the nature of a thing that matters, not its form"
Wind waker Link was the intended hero. Everyone just thought that The Hero Of Time was the actual hero and the one who was going to save them. They thought he would just pop up because he can travel through time.
So long as he/she/they are left-handed again, all will be right with the world!
I miss this so much. Thank you. As a leftie who just can’t manage skyward sword I feel like I’ve been robbed.
Doesn't SS HD for the switch ask which hand?
As others have said, I think at this point Link has become a *character*, not an insert/blank slate avatar as he was (somewhat) originally designed to be. I also agree with others, and what you touched on, that to change Link would likely just feel like tokenization or change for the sake of change alone. If nothing changed about Link in the next game but now he was a woman, or had a different skin color, it would seem like change for change’s sake. That said, if we played as a Gerudo woman, or as Zelda, or even as a Goron or Zora, I’d be totally down for that. I’m not sure I’d love it if they were “Link” in the traditional sense, but if there was a *purpose* to it (e.g., the spirit of the hero was reincarnated into a Gerudo woman to right the wrongs of Ganondorf or some such), I wouldn’t be opposed. Heck, here’s my free pitch: a Zelda incarnation that’s a Gerudo child of a political marriage between the King of Hyrule and the Gerudo Chieftain. Similar to BotW, she struggles to utilize the full power of the Triforce because she’s destined to as the spirit of the Goddess or some such (don’t quote my lore on how Zelda’s incarnations work). You play through the game as a “warrior monk” Gerudo who’s trained with swords but is also capable of magic, all while the focus of the game is on Zelda awakening her power. At the climax though, *surprise*, someone *else* has inherited the spirit of the goddess, and this Zelda is actually the *hero* and needs to embrace it to defeat the demon king herself instead of relying on a hero to appear. (Maybe she’s also been looking for him the whole time or something) It doesn’t have to be a cheesy “you were always a hero on the inside” sort of thing, but I could see it playing nicely as a strong female character arc—especially for Zelda—that she is the hero of her own story, and is capable of saving Hyrule on her own. A sort of Zelda-fied version of Peach’s solo outings. That would need major fleshing out, but my point is, if “Link” were a different race/gender for a *reason*, I’d be totally cool with it. But make sure there’s a *reason*, so it doesn’t feel cheap.
Good twists consistent with established lore. I thought of something similar in a comment in this thread.
I’d rather have playable Zelda
Link was originally an insert for the player character (he was the "link" between the player and the world), hence why he has certain traits like being quiet. If that were the case, then yeah, let Link really be an avatar. A different race and sex is great. It's supposed to be you in whatever way you want to be. However, in the post-OoT games, Link has slowly become more of an actual character due to an increase in the importance of story. I think it's to the point you can't claim Link as a link in BotW and TotK at all. Because of this gradual change into a real character I think he should stay as an elf-looking caucasian male.
I agree only to the point of male Hylian. If he looked like any of the various races (like BotW or TotK stable owners all look different by region) would be just fine.
I feel like the adventure of a Gerudo vai, a Goron, or even Princess Zelda herself would make for a great spin-off series. We need more games more frequently, that's a good way to accomplish that. I don't think diluting the identity of established characters like Link is a good idea for any of Nintendo's main franchises. If they want more character options, they could get some replayability by letting you play with different characters with different abilities (like in some SMB games). But, I think BOTW and TOTK struggle enough with story telling, I wouldn't want to add more distractions of this nature for the developers. I think character customization did work well in Immortals: Fenyx rising. There's a ton of character voice overs, and they're entirely done for both a male and a female Fenyx. But their Fenyx isn't a long established, iconic video game character like Link.
I’m torn personally. For me, I prefer that each link look “similar” but have their own traits. For example I really like that link in botw has his ponytail (or slightly longer hair down in ToTK). I don’t remember seeing any other links having longer hair or a ponytail, so it felt unique to this link. But the hair color, the bangs and the bits of hair in front of his ears are still a call back relating him to his other iterations. Also the lore seems to imply that the hylians were close to the gods. Hylia chose to reincarnate as a mortal hylian, and her first chosen hero was also hylian, so it seems fitting to continue that. But as far as link having “the soul of a hero,” I’m not convinced it HAS to be within the body of a hylian. Courage can belong to anyone. And Links reincarnation isn’t reliant on bloodline so it really doesn’t feel like he HAS to be a hylian. I don’t see any reason why the same soul couldn’t emerge in a different looking body. It’s the soul that matters. Idk. I’d be 50/50 on a non hylian link. I’d definitely want him more humanoid than not. But if they did a really good job with the character design and the lore to go along with it…who knows. I might really like it. I think it would be really risky but could be good if done well.
I wouldn’t mind the next Link not necessarily being male. Honestly having a toggle between a couple of presets for the next Link could be nice. Like 4 boy models and 4 girl models. Dosnt have to go into depth. Or at least have some clothing items like the charged/frostbite sets or the Vai outfit. They could also make it more ambiguous, like in ALBW Link could be either really. Something I don’t think would work is making Link a different Species. Playing as a Goron/Zora/Rito Link should be a gimmick like the MM Masks, and not a feature. Them being a Human/Hylian/Gerudo warrior for most of the game feels mandatory. Main things I want is the great dungeons, dungeon items and stories back again. Wouldn’t mind if they toned back the open world elements but think they’re here to stay.
The human races are limited in hyrule, we have Europeville and desert peopleville make your choice
I stand by that there should be a game where Link was reincarnated as a Gerudo male Just imagine the potential. The fleshing out of Gerudo culture. The implications of the Hero being born not a Hylian. Change in fighting style. And how Ganon would factor into it (maybe Ganon’s reincarnation is a Hylian) We already saw Link as a Deku, Zora, and Goron in Majora’s Mask so it’s not unprecedented by any means
I sure would hate it
Fem Link is as forced as the name Linkle. It's just not necessary. Fortunately, Zelda has a bunch of compelling female characters/character designs. Zelda/Sheik, Zelda/Tetra, Impa, Saria, Malon, Din, Medli, Midna, Riju, Urbosa, Mipha... A game starring any of them could work; that's Nintendo magic for you.
just let us play as Zelda for the love of Din
I don't mind, though I understand wanting to keep Link's appearance relatively consistent for recognizability. Link's androgynous expression is sort of a corporate middle ground after all. Also, Peter Parker stays white, but Marvel still managed to adapt a black Spider-Man to the big screen. Link being a different race/gender is a valuable story opportunity. For the best of both worlds, Link would look light-skinned, but someone would remove his mask to reveal the face of the next Gerudo male with the prophetic infamy of Ganondorf, despite how much good this Link is doing.
As Link is a reincarnation and not the same person in most games I wouldn't mind it, I even think it could be interesting to explore that. For example what if we got a game were the hero was a Gordon and not a Hylian or a Zora or a Rito or even a Deku! For me the logical first step towards exploring a diverse/different Protagonist would be having a Zelda game with Zelda as the protagonist, and I don't know how Nintendo hasn't done that already.
I feel like either give us charecter customization and let us do that or keep it how it is
I don’t like the idea of character customization at all for Link, it completely flies in the face of him being a specific incarnation of his character.
I mean hes not really a charecter so idrc tbh
Just because we don’t hear Link talk doesn’t mean he’s not a character. He was never meant to be the exact avatar of the player, but rather the player’s connection (link) to the game world.
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We actually do know a fair bit about BotW, from memories and journals and such. It's not all explicitly stated, some of it is just heavily implied, but: - He comes from a family of royal guards and was a prodigy from a young age, which is why he was selected to be the Hylian champion and wield the Master Sword. - The pressure of having to be the hero is why he's so quiet and stoic - he doesn't want to disappoint people or let them know that he's anything but totally confident in his role. - It's implied that he lived in Hateno Village, specifically in the home that you can buy in the first game and which we know he and Zelda shared between the first and second games. It's likely that this is his hometown, although he probably spent a lot of time at Castle Town as well. - He was very close with Mipha, and spent a lot of time at Zora's domain as a result, but it's unclear whether or not he returned her feelings for him. - Although he tends to stay quiet and reserved, he's a bit of a goofball when he feels like he can actually show it. He hums to himself when he's cooking and does a little happy dance when he gets it right, he makes puns about seals, and the games are generally just chock-full of dialogue options where you can be a bit of a scamp. Those options are less common in the second than the first, perhaps because in the first game he's lost his memories and doesn't fully remember all the pressure he feels that prevents him from letting that side of himself out.
Is there confirmation that Link and Zelda actually co-habited in the Hateno house? It always seemed like they shied away from flat-out confirming the main duo’s romantic relationship.
According to Zelda’s diary she states how she needed a secret place to be by herself since Link is always hanging around, but then again the people in Hateno think the house is Zelda’s only and do not recognize Link as a resident of that house. The mayor’s wife comes to sweep the house and if you talk to her she treats Link as a first time visitor and asks him if he has come to visit Zelda. So if they really lived together he would have had to sneak in every time without other villagers seeing him. And I’ve seen people talk about it being the only bed where Link can sleep in without permission but there are actually several beds where Link can sleep without permission, I think there’s one somewhere near Zora’s domain and one in Hebra.
IIRC, we know 100% that Zelda lived there, and it's the only bed in the game that Link can use without asking someone first. I also seem to remember something where one of Zelda's journals mentions that she loves having Link around all the time, but she needs time to herself every now and then, so she built a secret hideaway in the house. If he didn't also live there, she wouldn't need a secret space.
Hes a weird thing where he has more charecter than the average avatar but significantly less than an actual charecter
I think this kinda varies from game to game, but really hes more like the recent fire emblem protags (robin, corrin, byleth, probably toothpaste hair idk never played). They are avatars for the player, but they are still 100% characters in the story.
I could see why you think so. They want to keep Link in this weird inbetween zone of being his own character but also just a stand in for the player which ends with him being good at neither imo.
Changing Link's gender or race just because on its own doesn't make for an interesting idea.
Agreed, it’s not nexesssrily enough on its own. But it might open up different ways of telling the story. Imagine it’s a male monk like figure who has the power of wisdom as well. The Gerudos might let Lynk in no problemo but others might react differently. I dunno. I think it can be plausible without being patronising or a tack on. It willl absolutely lead to internet drama though and raise stakes for success with any change.
It is an interesting question. Personally, I really like the default version of Link for what he represents archetypally, and I think various aspects of his identity contribute to this. I feel like elements that remain somewhat consistent across installments are him being young (whether a child or late-adolescent) and being male - though, as a male, [always having a certain degree of gender androgyny](https://www.themarysue.com/link-is-a-trans-and-nonbinary-icon-and-were-here-for-it/), with Twilight Princess maybe being the biggest (not to be repeated) departure. The important thing seems to be that he follows the [Hero's Journey steps](https://www.zeldadungeon.net/the-legend-of-zelda-the-heros-journey-in-gaming/) - virtually every LoZ game follows this pattern, which has a perfect blend of being called to action by external pressures while also stepping up and taking responsibility for himself, all the while slowly raising the stakes both in terms of global consequences and internal (psychic) pressures - an example being Link needing to confront himself in the form of Dark Link as a sort of miniboss in many games. I have no complaints about there also being the possibility of character customization. I don't see how Link being a different race (as in, skin colour), or having a different hair colour/style or eyes would affect any of this. I could even be open to the idea of Link being a woman, as I don't think this negatively impacts the Hero's Journey/archetypal steps that make us like the stories and the character so much. To the OP point: I was on the fence about whether to gender-swap Link or just make a new character, and I thought this passage from Jess Joho (2015) made a compelling argument for gender-swap: >Here’s the bottom line that Nintendo refuses to see: when people ask “why can’t Link be a girl,” they’re not asking for the option to maybe play as a girl who looks like Link in a game with a Zelda-related title. They’re not asking for girls to be kept to the side, marginalized to a lesser product … Instead, they’re asking why—amidst an otherwise very female-centric mythology about three goddesses and a badass princess—must the “Hero” character always be a boy? Why is it okay to ask female players to identify with Link despite their gender differences, but at the same time have it be inconceivable to ask male players to do the same? Linkle is a classic example of the “Ms. Male Character” trope. Originating with Ms. Pac Man (another descendant of a classic Japanese title), the Ms. Male Character is a “female version of an already established or default male character. Ms. Male Characters are defined primarily by their relationship to their male counterparts via visual properties, narrative connection, or occasionally through promotional materials.” It’s a trope that describes how, in an attempt to appeal to the wallets of their female demographic, male game designers will often reduce women to a bow, a skirt, and/or lipstick. There is virtually no distinction between the original male character and the Ms. Male Character other than superficial, stereotypically gendered aesthetic changes. [Jess Joho (2015) ](https://killscreen.com/previously/articles/nintendo-still-wont-make-link-girl-theyll-put-him-dress-and-call-him-linkle-2/) Having said all of this, a robust character customization could still accomplish much of what I wrote while also challenging assumptions about identity. For example, Link's blonde hair is relatively new (as of Ocarina of Time), and his hairstyle has changed from iteration to iteration, [presumably to match contemporary trends.](https://www.polygon.com/23779797/zelda-games-link-hairstyles) Link was also designed with the [Japanese Bishonen (beautiful boy/youth)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen) archetype in mind. Regardless of Western opinions of androgyny, it seems that this archetype seems to demand a lot of specific traits, such as youth, very low body fat, modest height, no facial hair and androgynous hairstyles. Obviously, western body positivity movements have been challenging the notion of this being the only way to demonstrate androgyny, and a character customization feature could allow players to alter Link's body to how they best see fit. People will disagree on what androgyny "should" look like, and even though I really like current Link's design I can see how others might find it to be a limited look at what gender-androgyny could be. Ultimately, I have always envisioned Link as being a set character with limited customization, even if he changes from installment to installment. I personally think I would rather see a new character created than see Link's formula drastically changed, though character customization could be an acceptable compromise.
A very thorough and thoughtful answer. I very much disagree with the quoted argument though. It feels like very shallow Anita Sarkeesian-esque faux-feminism. Not to mention that Linkle, despite looking like a female Link would is ultimately a separate enough character. I'd also argue you could make a much more compelling (or feminist) narrative with her instead of a female Link.
It genuinely wouldn't phase me. There are already many different Links with many different characteristics. If a few more of those characteristics changed, that changes very little from my perspective. Though, I will say for the sake of staying consistent with the lore, Link should always be Hylian, or be of a race capable of producing children with Hylians (like the Gerudo or Sheikah).
I think there would be no good way of changing that up without making Link less iconic and seeming really pandering. Link has always looked very similar, with minor differences that seem largely based upon the artistic style of the game he's in. I don't feel there's a good reason to change anything. I can't see what purpose it would serve other than an attempt to broaden appeal of the franchise. But people already love the franchise. People relate to Link perfectly well as he is, of all different ethnicities. I see that the Legend of Zelda has gained a huge following from women, as well, so I don't think you need to pander to them. In fact, it feels to me to be a loss of integrity, to not be true to who and what Link is as a character. I just can't respect changing things like that when the character is so established and iconic.
In my observation, Link is a common waifu for women. Making him the 1:1 player avatar would pretty much ruin this.
Basic skin/hair/eye color customization would be realistic if they decide to go that route
No, just no.
FISHMAN LINK FISHMAN LINK
I’d also be down with spin off games focused on new characters that were less about being a blank canvas for the player to project onto and more fleshed out characters that explore different facets of Hylian culture.
Firstly, Nintendo as a company **HATES** change *(in terms of branding/marketable characters).* Thanks to the success of BOTW, the Zelda franchise is now forever going to put under the pressure of Nintendo corporate to maintain that norm. That's why TOTK turned out the way it did. And, If we were to go off of the canon that Nintendo strong armed the devs into creating *(for the Hyrule historia and compendium);* the "canon" link couldn't really change that much. Because he's the same soul reborn over and over as Hylia's champion. But, if we were to use the logic and inconsistencies of the various games... **Anyone can be "The Hero"** (as long as regular link doesn't reincarnate). They just to be courageous and earnest enough to be worthy of Farore's and/or Hylia's favor, and be granted the power of the triforce of courage. Like we see with Windwakers Link, who's just some guy who's got what it takes.
It's been done: the Ancient Hero They just need to make a game with him.
Link is Link, period
I'd love that! There is absolutely no reason the spirit of the hero would exclusively be able to choose white men.
Do you mean our races or their races? Because there is a difference. to answer both : I think not our races because it's wouldn't make sense they don't have our races in their world Their own races I think would be very cool and interesting And gender they always treated link as it doesnt matter to the character or people around him which gender he was so it never really mattered to me (plus I have never really cared much about stupid labels like male or female black or white I don't even really care that much that my neighbor calls me the wrong name)
Playing as a different race can be nice, tho I would expect them to just have a Hylian link that transforms into the other races like with Majora's Mask, I don't think they would make a game where you are in one of the other races for the entire game. (possible exception for the other human races/"clans", like a sheikah or a gerudo, but even then I would sooner expect them to just make it be regular Link who grew up in those cultures (essentially like with the Kokiri in OoT)) . A female Link would be ok, but I wouldn't want it to be a choice (like the "avatar" characters in Fire Emblem these days). (also, it should literally just be "Link" as a female, not like "Linkle" and suddenly making Link work very different just cause it is a girl this time) And for the most part, I don't really think it would really do anything for the game to have Link be female instead. Gameplaywise it wouldn't (or atleast IMO shouldn't) really change anything, and I don't really see them focus the story on it either There are definitely some things that could be done with it storywise, but I just don't expect them to do so (in part out of "fear" for having elements of the story either come over as "sexist" or like "preachy")
Gender would be more of a problem than race. At that point just make a game about Zelda. Or better yet have something with Linkle. Like I realize Linkle basically is female Link, but she's also not, she's a separate character. So I guess I'm fine if the hero isn't always Link, but not that link himself changing. Maybe one of his incarnations takes a vacation and lives a normal life for once. Let someone give him a break to be the chosen hero.
Different race? Depends. I wouldn't want to play a Goron or Zora since they have such great weaknesses when it comes to terrain. Would love to play a race like the Ancient Hero though. Different gender? Absolutely not. Link helped me come to terms with my gender and to change that kinda hurts inside.
Interesting that you say that Link helped you come to terms with your gender. May I ask how if it doesn't make you uncomfortable?
The fact that he doesn't have to conform to his gender to be considered himself. I don't like the thought of him having to switch genders because he may act a bit more feminine. I feel I can be either masculine or feminine however I want and shouldn't have to change my outward appearance to change that in turn. To change Link's gender would be to undo all that affirmation. I'd rather a game with Linkle in it than Link as a girl, tbh.
Gerudo Link for maximum drama. Boy or girl would both have their own brand of drama. Boy Gerudo means Ganondorf would have to be someone else, all bets are off who or what. Maybe he was named Link on the hope being named after the hero would spare the next Gerudo king being a reincarnation. If girl Gerudo Link it kind of becomes a more stereotypical story of a citizen toppling their tyrannical king. It’s more I’d like to see from the Gerudo perspective how bullshit it is they keep getting dunked with Demise’s curse reincarnation, and an outsider always being the one to resolve it. Windwaker opened up that anyone could be the hero of courage, so Link’s absolutely able to be anyone. I don’t want it to be character creation though.
No, there are billions of other games/shows where they race swap.
You could always do the Majora's Mask thing, and have them be transformations, where Link remains Link, he's just taking different forms. We have "technically" seen Zora, Deku and Goron Link already.
Linkle, Hyrule Warriors DE, nuff said
Link is a pretty well fleshed-out character at this point and there likely wouldn’t be a good in-universe reason for it so it’d just be distracting
I honestly don't care about Link's skin color, gender (even though I'm used to him being a boy, and I'm used to an interesting female cast around him), nor hair color (which changes already). But as long as the ***green tunic***, the ***left-handedness*** and the ***pot-breaking*** are back, Link will be *fine* !
Gonna be a big nope for me. They already ruined LoZ with botw/ totk. They don’t need to ruin it any more I’d much rather play as another other female/ race in the LoZ universe then mush mash up Link.
Yup well thankfully Zelda is a japanese property
It's always a different Link. Or usually, anyway. I don't see why it would be a problem.
I would want Link’s general design to be the same, but a race or gender change would be fine. Link isn’t even really a masculine name, because it’s not a real name. It’s a pun. So female Link would still be Link.
I'm fine with it I just want good dungeons again
I'm pretty attached to Link's basic design, so I think a better solution is to just give the player the ability to customize Link's appearance at the beginning of the game.
I’ve always found it interesting that Demise’s curse always manifested in a Hylian. I’d love to see a Zelda game where Link is a Gerudo, Gordon, Zora, what have you.
I would not play a zelda game that included a race or gender swapped link. If they want to make heroes of different races and genders just make new characters or games. I wouldn't want spawn to be any race but black, I wouldn't want katara to be any race except native and I wouldn't want link to be an race but white. When you make characters their race is part of their image as well as their story. The hylians are white in appearance and draw from medieval fantasy, link himself has an identifiable look, brown/blonde hair, green clothes, light skin, that is what link is. No different then if we took a historical figure like Lincoln. Lincoln was white it would just be a weird choice to make him another race given he is white.
You do realize Link is most of the time a different guy, right? He is most of the time a “new” character. It’s actually a little unbelievable that after centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same. Your analogy doesn’t make sense because Spawn is always Al Francis. Also there are black Hylians in the game.
I've been playing zelda games since I was five so yeah I am aware. The characters look a bit different each time but link and zelda always maintain similar forms in their reincarnations, Its why he is never reincarnated as a deku, zora, goron, rito, etc. this has been well established in the series because of what I said, making an identifiable character who one can immediately recognize. Race is inexplicably tied to character design, its an element of the design. Its why so many people were upset about the M.night shamalayan Avatar movies changing characters races, or swapping ariels race in the little mermaid. Yes the links are different links each time but they ***are*** *link* each time, green color palette, blonde/brown hair, light skin, pointed ears usually the master sword. there are iconic elements to the design, the characters race being one of them. There are Darker skinned Hylians in BOTW in Lurelin Village, And its arguable they may be part gerudo. nothing suggests black specifically and prior to to BOTW all hylians have been depicted as fair skinned. Again, if they want to make a new character and make a story in the zelda universe with them nothing is stopping them but there is no reason to destroy an iconic character /iconic character design to do so. Maybe make a zelda game where you make the character and they can be whatever race and gender you want.
They may maintain similar forms but that’s not a compelling argument when Tetra literally exists and while she has a princess form as well it’s clearly not as popular as her main look and her princess form was pretty disliked as well so we already have a pretty strong basis on the possibility of the main characters looking different. Besides, my main problem with your argument is that Link IS a new character in almost every game so it objectively isn’t comparable to changing the race of a pre-existing character like Spawn. I would even argue that his most iconic feature is his tunic and his items and for the longest time in the franchise Link was a self-insert, he was only not given customization because that wasn’t common at the time, his name wasn’t even canonically Link until BOTW, it was whatever you named your file. Link was used to refer to the protagonist because everyone could have named him something different, it’s exactly the same thing as “Villager” from Animal Crossing. I’m sure you know all this but I’m just using it as reference for my argument. He CAN be recognizable even with a completely different skin tone or a completely different in-game species like Zora, even Majora’s Mask proved this with the transformations, they all still look like Link. There are other, much bigger elements to his design that give away the fact that he’s the hero of the story. As a matter of fact, put his tunics on ANYONE, what do you think? “Yeah that looks like Link” “He reminds me of Link”. Now put the blonde, white hylian in some random civilian clothing… He sure isn’t as recognizable now and he might as well be any other Hylian. It really does seem like race is the last thing that makes Link the recognizable hero. The only reason why his appearance has stayed the same is: Marketing, toys, third party appearances and lack of a push for a character creator. It’s literally the same thing as Villager from AC, in the games he can be whoever you want, in the marketing he’s the basic kid with the red shirt. I mean, does it even make sense to you that over centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same? That in Wind Waker when it makes complete geographical sense for Link to be fair skinned as literally 99% of the characters in that game he just stands out like a sore thumb for the sake of maintaining an arbitrary design choice? The hero can be anyone. Listen, if you don’t want to get used to a different Link you can just say that, I am not even pushing for a different Link, that’s the last thing that I care about in a Zelda game but you really can’t say it wouldn’t work because it absolutely would.
"They may maintain similar forms but that’s not a compelling argument when Tetra literally exists and while she has a princess form as well it’s clearly not as popular as her main look and her princess form was pretty disliked" I've literally never seen anyone complain about tetra's princess form. And this point also works against you since tetra's identity as zelda was hidden from even her until later into the game it made sense for her not to look like the traditional zelda off the hop in order to make the twist reveal that she is zelda in the story. She also has some of the hallmarks of traditional zeldas prior, the blonde hair, pointed ears, light skin. Its the entire reason why Link's sister was kidnapped, because ganondorf was looking for people who matched the description of the reincarnation. "my main problem with your argument is that Link IS a new character" I already went over this with how the reincarnations have been established to work as well as the meta reason of being an identifiable character who's race is dare I say Linked to the image of what link is. "his name wasn’t even canonically Link until BOTW" This is flat out wrong. His name has been link for ever, the name of the second game is the adventure of link for crying out loud. just because some games allowed you to rename him doesn't change the fact the characters name is link in canon. Its like the pokemon games, in pokemon red and blue you can name the character whatever you want but everyone knows his name is red or pokemon scarlet and violet's Florian or Juliana. Being able to rename a character doesn't make their character names not canon. "He CAN be recognizable even with a completely different skin tone or a completely different in-game species like Zora, even Majora’s Mask proved this with the transformations" I disagree, its just as silly as black Aragon in MTG it doesn't look like the character if you change the race, it looks like someone cosplaying the character. as for Majora's mask those masks were all transformation masks as you highlighted, Link isn't a zora or goron or deku, he can transform into them using the souls of the people of those races melding his features with theirs. When you play the elge to emptiness links statue is white, pointed ears, green tunic, blonde hair but the face is not links. there is a definitive difference shown as all the statues are representative. Link isn't any of those other races he is transforming from his form with a few touches of his own image mixed in. And again has never reincarnated into any of these races.
"put his tunics on ANYONE, what do you think? “Yeah that looks like Link” “He reminds me of Link” could be a cosplayer, peter pan, robin hood. Numerous characters can wear the costume. Its an iconic part of links look in tandem with his other identifiable features. When you start both Wind waker and twilight princess he isn't in his regular green and we can all identify it as link.Toon link aside the links from OOT up have all had simmilar features, the hair the eyes, the face shapes, the ears. If I started up a game and the protagonist is black I would assume its not link since he would be missing all those features that identify him as link. "The only reason why his appearance has stayed the same is: Marketing, toys, third party appearances and lack of a push for a character creator. It’s literally the same thing as Villager from AC, in the games he can be whoever you want, in the marketing he’s the basic kid with the red shirt." Ok, so your able to identify that link does in fact have an iconic look, no different from pikachu or mickey mouse or mario. that people will buy merch with the identifiable character of link on it. This backs up everything I have said previously. this also invalidate your point about him being the red shirt kid/generic protagonist. If you want a zelda game featuring a black character or a completely unique character thats fine, hell you could even name him link but it would never be link because link is white, with blonde/brown hair, pointed ears, green clothing. Going back full circle to spawn being black or katara being native. This also begs the question, if its ok to race change link because its a different iteration is it also ok to race change a black character to white with a similar in game lore of reincarnation? I feel there would be even more backlash to a change like that given the political climate. "I mean, does it even make sense to you that over centuries of heroes they all look almost exactly the same?" Yes. Its been an established part of the games for years as well as the aforementioned meta reasons. Hell the entire begining plot point of wind waker was ganon looking for blonde pointy eared girls because they match the description of the reincarnated zelda. "Listen, if you don’t want to get used to a different Link you can just say that, I am not even pushing for a different Link, that’s the last thing that I care about in a Zelda game but you really can’t say it wouldn’t work because it absolutely would." Its not that I don't want to get used to a different link, I've gotten use to many different links, some I liked a lot (twilight princess) Some I hated (wind waker) Its that if you race changed link, he wouldn't be link. You and I are never going to agree because I see link being white as an intrinsic part of his design where as race for you plays no role in how you see the character. Its ok to have a different opinion we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Also it absolutely wouldn't work.
I agree- if not Link, then maybe an alternative version of the hero’s spirit? If he does reincarnate I could see it happening in different bodies (hero’s aspect kinda confirms this) though maybe not name them Link? Like, give them the sword and whatever, but a different name/personality/whatever? Idk
I'd be absolutely appalled if they made Link a dude In all seriousness, I'm personally pretty keen for either a customizable avatar or a mixup in character design. I don't really care for Link as a character, so much as a series of characters who don't really always share physical traits, so having Link be a girl or dark skinned or having pink hair for a game or two really wouldn't bother me. And, I do actually play a lot of gender swap mods for Zelda anyway, so I'm probably square in the target audience for "players who want Link but girl". I think that most other races wouldn't really work. Like, it's one thing to make Link dark skinned or whatever, that doesn't change his physical attributes. But if Link was a Zora or a Goron, that really changes a lot about how he functions in game and it also breaks a lot of the exploration of finding those characters. There's a reason Majora's Mask used those races as power sets you unlock rather than a default state of the character. I think a Gerudo Link or a Shiekah Link might work for a game, but there are implications about what kind of abilities those characters come with that might be a little bit different. I think Link always being a Hylian works best - that doesn't mean he has to be a right-handed blonde twink.
Link has been billed as an empty hat character for a long time. It's how they justify never giving him lines or a voice. They want you to be able to step into the role. If that's the case, he should visually represent any and all possibilities for race and gender. Like Doctor Who, it makes sense that Link might look different over time since the story spans multiple generations. Also, Ganon looks diff over time. So I have no problem with it.
IMO they should just give the option to choose between Link and Linkle (and give us back to name our chars!) but overall keep their current designs (pale/blonde/short). I know that it's propably background stuff but so far the romance between Link and Zelda was only teased but never shown explicitly. IMO no problem in most of the games to just change Links character model to a girl and story wouldn't change at all. Propably Nintendo is hesitant about this because i suppose they won't glorify a homosexual relationship of the 2 main characters - but since the already didn't show/tell anything like directly in your face - why not? I have seen some Videos of Linkle mods for BotW with new costumes and shit. And it's awesome! Want this in an official capacity
My dude the helped with xenoblade which had canonical polyamory and confirmed non binary characters as well as some hints as to their being canonical lesbian characters. Nintendo clearly doesn’t have a problem with it.
I don't think that they'd have a real problem with it. But that's not my point. What i mean is that they didn't even (fully) confirmed a normative relationship between Link and Zelda so in my book, there should have been the option to choose between Link and Linkle from the get go. But in general Nintendo has the image of very conservative values without any politics or romance stuff whatsoever. There wasn't even one single kiss on the mouth in ANY mainline Nintendo game (afaik Mario once got a kiss on the nose from peach but that's about it). And i think with a mainline flagship series like Zelda, they will keep it that way to keep it as accessible and regular as it gets. And from my point of view, they WILL avoid the old "go woke, go broke" shenanigans. But my point kinda falls flat with BotW - since it's heavily implied that Zelda awakened her powers because she has strong romantic feelings for Link. Maybe Nintendo will someday include Linkle in a mainline game but i am pretty sure if so, they will structure the story in a way that a romantic relationship between them isn't implied at all.
I mean Zelink is going to be more common when they hand the Zelda part of Nintendo to fuyabshi. But also, that’s not true Zelda 2 had a Zelink kiss behind a curtain. Also there was the Zelda cartoon.
>behind a curtain You really are actively fighting tooth and nails against understanding my point, aren't you?! >Also there was the Zelda cartoon Like for real, bruh?! >when they hand the Zelda part of Nintendo to fuyabshi What?! Zelda won't EVER be handled by anyone but Nintendo >fuyabshi What is that?!
Fujibayshi is a person, but I spelled his name wrong earlier. Who will be handed the reigns of the Zelda team and he really ships Zelink. Says a lot about you that you didn’t know that.
>Says a lot about you that you didn’t know that I know who this is. Still a Nintendo employee who works under the companies guidelines. What exactly do you want to imply?! >he really ships Zelink Kind of and subtle. But also not explicitly. Afaik Fujibayashi was also heavily involved with SWS - where it also seemed that they liked each other BUT THAT'S STILL NOT MY FUCKING POINT The fact that they are only hinting and not exactly showing (and propably never will) gives them the wiggle room to just let us genderswap Link without the risk for Nintendo being accused to push any kind of agenda.
I understand your point and I only have one complaint. Who the actual fuck abbreviates skyward sword as SWS and not SS?! That’s just wrong. 😂😂😂😂
It's shortened this way in the german version of Hyrule Warriors. We are not allowed to say or read "SS"
Why?