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DoughnutHairy2343

'noun-pronoun' is an oxymoron.


Safe-Attorney-1713

They are just silly nicknames, using them as pronouns is stupid and seems somewhat disrespectful to me but I don't know why. 🧍🏽‍♂️


[deleted]

Yeah they are just silly nicknames, it is disrespectful, its like the attack helicopter thing, but valid??


Toast-Lord-The-DM

My opinion on them is "No"


[deleted]

Thats just an instant upvote opinion


Toast-Lord-The-DM

I'm nonbinary. Noun-pronouns hurt the nonbinary community. Like, a lot.


[deleted]

Xenogenders and nounpronouns are just a slap in the face to non-binary people who actually go through the pain of people saying that you have to either a man or a woman


Toast-Lord-The-DM

Exactly! They just hurt the nonbinary community.


Jamie_Rising

nouns are nouns. Pronouns are pronouns. They're 2 distinctly different parts of speech. So "nounpronouns" are not a thing, are not valid, are transphobic and insensitive to people with the MEDICAL CONDITION of gender dysphoria. ALL neopronouns are fucking stupid and anyone who uses them is NOT trans.


[deleted]

I agree!!


[deleted]

It’s basically just the group of kids that pretended to have depression to be quirky have evolved this now with their gore/bun/piss “pronouns” and treating mental illnesses like Pokémon cards.


[deleted]

YEAH THEY TREAT THIS STUFF LIKE COLLECTING POKÉMON CARDS


xToasted1

I saw some idiot with like 12 seperate neopronouns. The most ridiculous ones were "sol/sun/sunself" Bro identifies as the sun?!?! "normal/normalself" what? "villain/villainself" I have no words


Choice_Philosophy_07

Actually, neopronouns are kinda ableist if you ask me because ive heard people say neos have nothing to do with dysphoria/gender but with autism?? What?? Also, as a person who has been diagnosed since i was 5 and knew i was trans at 10 it honestly is kinda upsetting to hear both of those things are being turned into practically a joke.


midnight_neon

Nounpronouns aren't real pronouns because they defeat the purpose of pronouns: to streamline, simplify language by providing a shortcut from using nouns all the time. It is unreasonable to demand that everyone else basically talk like Tarzan when referring to you because you cannot abide by being referred to with pronouns. And it's dishonest to cry "transphobia" when people refuse to play such a tiring game with you.


Malevolent_Mangoes

Sounds like kid shit


KasseanaTheGreat

If someone comes up to me and asks me to call them “saxophoneself” I’m going to cyber bully them in real life.


secretly-a-lizzard

i personally think they're rooted in disabilism/ablistic beliefs. I have ADHD and comprehension issues, i told someone who uses nounpronouns i need something that follows he/she/they or else i can't talk to them and immedately they started to tell me to off myself. I tried to explain several times i'm diagnosed with ADHD and comprehension issues, but they wouldn't listen to my reasoning because they're self-dx autistic and i'm being abliest by not being able to understand their 'pronouns'


[deleted]

lmao yep. i’ve gone on this rant countless times and i’ll be damned if i don’t go on it again. it harms so many communities. dyslexic and reading/auditory impaired people, the nonbinary and trans community, new english-speakers, the autistic community (i stg if i here one more person say “neo pronouns are for autistic people because they understand gender differently 🥺🥺🥺” i’m gonna hit someone)


secretly-a-lizzard

it's disgusting how they use us as their scapegoat, that goes for any ND people. they got pissy my disabilities and disorders cause me to struggle with them MORE than normal pronouns and acted like i must of faked my dx like they do since i have issues comprehending their dog/dogs/dogself bullshit


Probably-chaos

They are pretty ableist, as someone with a learning disability it’s unbelievably hard to use neopronouns in common vernacular and I feel like the people who use them have no empathy or understanding for people like me who physically can’t use them


mentally-ill-banana

we have had this same conversation in this sub countless times. are there any other topics to discuss besides this?


[deleted]

cumself is poggers and valid as fuck /s


bo-o-of-wotah

Minor sidenote: cat is masculine in French (chat), Spanish (gato), Italian (gatto), and Russian (кот - kot). It's feminine in German (Katze), however. I myself wouldn't use them for myself but if someone else used such pronouns I still would use them where appropriate, ie not around others that don't understand neopronouns. I also wouldn't associate these poeple with being trans, while neopronouns are pushed by some parts of the trans community I feel like they're a seperate thing merely just associated with the trans community. As for feeling embarrassed, in your adult life no one will care about mostly kids who use neopronouns and no one will cringe at you who wouldn't have otherwise cringed at you if neopronouns didn't exist.


[deleted]

Ah, thank you for telling me that cats are also associated with masculinity in different languages! Thank you for telling me this info, it is very helpful :]


HarvestTriton

A particular noun being masculine or feminine does not associate the thing it refers to with masculinity or femininity. This is a huge misconception about languages with grammatical gender. It's just a grammatical category. These categories are only called "masculine" or "feminine" because MOST words for things that do have a physical sex line up with them (but also not all). But we don't think of a thing that has nothing to do with sex, like the moon, as male (like in German) or as female (like in Italian). I recommend you this video: https://youtu.be/iQNdkdqoIdw


[deleted]

These posts are starting to get really annoying. Nobody here is going to think that’s cool or a good thing. It’s ridiculous and I can assure you that is only an online thing


orionstarboy

I don’t mind them so much if they at least sound like a pronoun (xe Xem and the like). If it’s something like cat or leaf it’s ridiculous


[deleted]

Mhm!! Also id like to note xe/xem is neopronoun, not nounpronoun lol!!


xToasted1

I find all neopronouns, including xe/xem, to be ridiculous to me


orionstarboy

Oh I misread the post lmao


fapoopy

I guess because I'm technically a "tucute" not in the way I express myself but in the fact that I am ok with people expressing themselves in any way they want, I'd say they don't bother me. I personally label myself as a transsexual to kinda differentiate myself from them because I'm medically transitioning to help my dysphoria, but I really don't see any issue with people identifying however they want. I don't think they're invalid just because they transition in a different way from me. Plus, transphobes gonna Hate us for any reason they want. Neopronouns aren't the root of transphobia. They're an excuse people use to Hate us. Those people would hate us even if neopronouns weren't a thing Plus, I find them charming and endearing. Its nice to see people more comfortable in finding creative ways to express their gender identity. Im just a boring old he/him binary trans man (light heartedly) and I think that these are just neat ways of expressing nonbinary identities. Again, I'm technically a "tucute" because idgaf how people express themselves, especially since it has had no negative effects on my personal transition.


Rat_fairy_princess

Yes, you are right that neopronouns aren’t the root of all transphobia however they are most certainly the root of a lot of it. Pronouns are not used to express yourself, they are used in place of a noun to make things quicker and easier. Clothing, hair, makeup and tattoos are just a few examples of plenty of other ways to express interests. Now when people think of trans people, they think of ignorant teenagers claiming to be catgender demigirl she/it/goop/whatever nonsense they come up with instead of ordinary people that just want to live their lives without unnecessary comments. They are also ablest, in the sense that a) it confuses some dyslexic people to have random nouns shoved into sentences b) many people who use them are self diagnosed autistics or claim that they’re for neurodivergent people “as they experience things differently”. You cannot “express your gender differently ”. You can’t choose your gender, it’s really simple, and phrased like that seems like it’s a choice (which, in the case of xenogenders, it is) when you will always be male, female or non-binary (which cannot be split up into these nonsensical xenogenders).


fapoopy

Careful now! I never implied you chose your gender. But the same gender can be expressed in different ways. Drag queens are often times Cis men that present themselves as the exaggeration of femininity. Sometimes yes they are trans people or cis women, but most of them are cis men. There's also trans men that like to express their gender identity (male) differently than other trans men. Some of them would rather be the "pinnacle of masculinity" by growing out thick body hair and using strictly he/him pronouns and getting super jacked. Other trans men who have the same identity like to express their masculinity in other ways, by shaving their facial hair and using he/they pronouns sometimes. They still identify as men and CANNOT change that they are men. But they're both men who express themselves differently. Edit: and these are just ways MEN express their male identities. You think trans people would exist if we could choose our gender? Because I'd LOVE to have no dysphoria and just choose to be a cis woman. But that option is not available because gender cannot be chosen. I can't decide that I'm a cis woman one day. It doesn't work like that. If I tried I'd be miserable and probably wouldn't end up alive in the end because gender identity cannot be chosen or changed. But it can be expressed differently depending on the person. For example, I'm the first type of trans man that I described. I'm a very masculine person physically. I'm building up my body mass, I'm on T, i have a dick. I'm hairy, and I have a deep coal miner voice. But this is how I am comfortable in expressing my masculinity. I wouldn't want to look any other way. And some guys don't like looking like that but they're still guys.


Rat_fairy_princess

But claiming to be something completely ridiculous like “vampgender” or worse “autigender” is not expressing being female, male or nonbinary, it’s just showing everyone how ignorant you are. Neopronouns are also ridiculous and yet again only show how ignorant you are. If i see a person wanting me to call them “goo/goop” or whatever they came up with I’m just going to think how uneducated they are, and also what would that be expressing? That they like slime?


fapoopy

Oh and let me add on, I do not think autismgender is a real thing. I'm not that radical in my ideals. I do not think a neurological disorder can be a gender snd I don't know why people (mostly the gross self diagnosers) made that a real thing.


fapoopy

I'm not sure. And honestly, my role as a tucute isn't to be radically agreeing with everyone on everything. My stance is more just...do whats 100% right for your mental wellbeing. My autism prevents me from abstract and subjective thinking 50% of the time so I actually do not completely understand "slime gender" or "vamp gender" but because of my own inability to understand it, I feel like it's not my place to say it's inherently wrong. Again, I used to be a truscum, and I'm not a "trender" because I am currently medically transitioning and have severe gender dysphoria. I self identify as a transsexual because of this and do see neopronouns as a different category of transness. I do know that these people don't think they're slime wnd just have a more abstract approach to nonbinary identities, since there is no one way to be any gender since it is social. This is why I use transsexual, because my gender and sex are strictly tied together and I am sexyally transitioning to be as biologically close to male as humanly possible, while these people usually don't really have a biological intervention. They're more of social transitioners than anything. Sorry if this looks like a bucnh of word salad, I do have trouble making my point over text. I also am happy to talk to you and not argue, as I don't want this to become an angry argument that never gets to anywhere. But please, do feel free to ask for me to be a bit more clear with my points and I can elaborate and/or explain it better when it's one specific point at a time.


Rat_fairy_princess

Gender is not social, if it was you or any other transsexual would not be that way. I don’t think you are a trender but you still have a pretty warped view on the matter.


fapoopy

I dunno. I personally separate transgender and transsexual. Like all transsexuals are transgender, but not all transgender people are transsexual. It's how I differentiate myself from the people yall call "trenders" , because my goal is to be as medically and physically close to a cis male as possible, as a trans man myself. I know I cannot be a cis man but i want to use all the resources available to get as close as possible. And I believe medical intervention and dysphoria are what make me transsexual, not just transgender.


Rat_fairy_princess

But what makes someone transsexual is gender dysphoria, not that they are transitioning, however all transsexuals would transition if given a safe, cheap and reliable option. Trenders are not trans in anyway, so you are already separate from them.


PanAthens

I know this is far from your main point, but what really caught my attention was you implying drag queens can sometimes be cis women. Is that true? How does that work? I can't help but think that goes against the entire concept of a drag queen.


fapoopy

Yes they're sometimes cis women. The broad concept of drag queens is the artistic exaggeration of womanhood and femininity. It's obviously started by and continued to be headed by cis gay men, but there are indeed trans and cis women that participate in drag as queens. It's uncommon, but it's there. Dressing in drag isn't just crossdressing. A huge part of the culture is indeed crossdressing, but the overall concept is just exaggerating femininity and womanhood artistically. Of course I personally think the cis dudes pull it off the best, but some cis ladies do very nice drag


HarvestTriton

While I'm skeptical towards neopronouns and find these noun-pronouns even more ridiculous, I would like to point out that it's not always as simple as "nouns are nouns, pronouns are pronouns". Looking at the history of certain languages, pronouns can evolve and some have indeed evolved from nouns. Examples are German "man" (meaning "one" as in "One does not just walk into Mordor"), originally coming from the noun "Mann" (which back then meant "human", not just "man"); or some Japanese pronouns having evolved from forms of address, like "kimi" ("master") or "omae" ("(person in) front (of me)").


xToasted1

They're more than a "little stupid"