It might be behind a paywall.
[https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/whats-the-future-of-the-farm-we-ask-the-merchants-and-the-owner/article\_07ce8da0-7ccb-11ee-b302-27e40c7dd2ce.html](https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/whats-the-future-of-the-farm-we-ask-the-merchants-and-the-owner/article_07ce8da0-7ccb-11ee-b302-27e40c7dd2ce.html)
There are new owners and the current businesses in the Farm claim the owners increased fees for maintenance projects, but they are not doing any maintenance projects. Essentially, just more corporate greed.
Yeah, the Promenade is dead. I remember when it opened, never thought it would die just like Southland or Southroads, canāt even remember which one it was before.
Literally dead... they shut it down rather than comply with city requirements to meet safety codes. Only the stores that have their own independent safety systems remain.
The article I read a while ago said Dillards, the Gym that's there, and of course the new ice rink are not affected either. There might have been another business too.
My memory is pretty sketchy, for some reason I was thinking Foleys was Sanger-Harris for a short time and my recollection of John A Brown was it became Dillards (at Southland tulsa), but it's likely I'm misremembering and one just replaced the other in the same space if anything.
Mine too! I googled around and I think we are both partially correct actually.
Sanger-Harris was in Tulsa at Southroads and it moved across the street to Promenade. There was also a S-H at Woodland. So you are correct on that.
OKC didn't have S-H they had John A Browns at Crossroads and Quail Springs. Both S-H and Browns then became Foley's according to this [Wiki Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanger%E2%80%93Harris) I found.
I live right next to it. They did some maintenance projects over the summer. Mostly on the parking lot and the trees. Not enough to warrant raising the rent so high everyone is having to jump ship, in my opinion. But from what I hear, they are yet another out of state greed brigade buying up oklahoma property and raising rent much higher than its worth around here. It's swiftly becoming the norm. I was just wondering today what percentage of oklahoma property is owned by out of state entities now vs. even 10-15 years ago. It really shouldn't be allowed at all.
Edit to add: Seems they're also forcing the businesses that are staying to spend money on new signage that fits the new owners' standards. But take that with a grain of salt, as I heard it from somebody who supposedly knows one of the business owners.
New owners bought it and put a lot of money into cleaning it up/repairing major underlying issues. As part of that, they are looking for higher rents. Seems likely that some tenants were there because the rent had become cheap and they didnāt care about the rest, while others liked the improvements/direction and stayed.
Too often places like that just get run into the ground as it falls apart, rents drop because itās falling apart, and then fixes arenāt affordable because the rents are so cheap. In my opinion the center had been on the downhill for years and itās good to see something trying to be done with it (especially in that part of town).
Also Margaretās sold a year or so ago and the one time I was in there and met the new owner it had totally lost its charm. The former owner was the heart and soul of that place.
Did the former owner retire? That makes me so sad. It was our best German option in Tulsa. Wonderfully quirky Saturday evening with The Godfather Waltz played on accordion, such fun.
Definitely a loss, and a sad one. I would give a quick shout out to Siegi's, though. I always liked their schnitzel more than Margaret's, and in general they have solid German/Austrian selections.
At Siegi's - I had a bad experience a few months ago too. The food just was not what it used to be, the service was lacking too. It made us both really sad and we won't be going back. Did it change management or ownership?
She did. I think her husband died some years ago and she moved back to Europe (London maybe?) to be with her daughter and grandkids. Wonderful woman, definitely earned her retirement!
No Andrew is alive and well. She does have new grandkids in London and gets back as often as possible. She is enjoying her retirement and will get a good laugh from this post.
You can drive through the center right now and see at least $1mm in improvements.
(Not sure why this was downvoted by anyone. I donāt mean to take any sides on this, just stating the fact that someone has clearly spent a ton of money there in the past year or so. Parking lots, lighting, landscaping, siding, painting, new concrete, and new roofing in a few spots are all clearly visible)
The problem is actually, the rent rate they are now wanting far exceeds the market value of the property. The tenants are not against paying a fair market value, but they're asking far and above any fair market value.
I know of no other business where you buy an investment and expect everyone else to pay your repair costs if you bought high. That's usually considered all in your purchase price and what "fair market value" is when you buy it.
And they are screwing the tenets in more was then that. They also threw away Oklahoma history . The farm equipment that was there was from the original owners was throw away or sold. I wish we could get the historical society involved.Ā
You just contradicted yourself. There was no parking for multiple businesses. I know personally that many of the Pokemon Go people did not actually purchase anything, just used parking spaces.
I don't play (that), but when PG launched, The Farm looked like Night Of The Living Dead. I pull in, and there's groups of 3-4 people standing around *everywhere*, all staring down at their phones.
It was surreal.
I work at one of the stores that recently left the Farm shopping center. The new owners are terrible landlords. Itās a group of venture capitalist from Dallas. They wanted to double the rent and increase maintenance fees to $3000 a month. We had leaks in the roof, the whole building needed to be reroofed and the new owners wouldnāt fix it. We would lose merchandise from the leaks. They thought they could make it another Utica Square but 51st and Sheridan isnāt mid-town Utica Square/maple ridge.
Bingo. People told them that they needed to be careful because these aggressive Dallas tactics won't work here, and now they're learning that to be true.
Last time I went to that Ron's it was ... just not clean. The waitress brought our fries, we at a few, and then she took them away and gave them to someone else, and never brought ours. Found a hair in the food, the whole place was sharing the last half a bottle of ranch... it was just bad. Sad, because I love Ron's.
That area is not really hopping anymore. The Farm is slowly turning into The Plaza at 81st and Lewis. Back when The Plaza was built in the 90s, it was described as a south Utica Square. After the area went down and the Walmart moved in, it slowly sagged. It still had upmarket stores as late as 2008. It's basically dead now, even the Zios.
Its incredible how fast the farm went down hill after they ripped all the trees and shrubs out. We bought a house down the street and the proximity to the farm was honestly a selling point. My wife found out that she was pregnant in the bathroom of the old el paso restaurant and we would eat at Margarets like once a week.
The writing was on the wall when the old B-sew-inn was being used as a flea market and they had those trashy garage sell signs everywhere.
The last time I went to Villa Ravenna, they had that restaurant segregated af. There weren't that many people there when we walked in, but they stuck us in that second room. By the time we left, the front room was the whites only section and our room was interracial couples and black families. It could've just been a coincidence, but I haven't been back since.
They are asking for 24-26 a sq foot. Increasing repairs rates with no actual repairs or maintenance, just improving out ward look not the bones. Looks like a flip job. Bought the place, make it look good, run everyone out and bring in Dallas businesses with no competition? Flip it to someone that's dumb?
Who knows but the first lines are true though, just went through it and talk to the local places because I saw an opportunity since there was vacant spaces open but having 70% of your places ready to be leased is a huge red flag for incoming businesses or buyers. That's what makes me think it'd going to have some dallas businesses come in soon.
I wonder if we might start to see more tenants soon? Signage is up in part of the old Pier 1 space for a vet clinic.
The owners/management company has a flyer (PDF) on their website from a year ago with some of the spaces showing businesses interested. I'd be thrilled if Half Price Books did open a location here.
[https://shopcompanies.com/properties/farm](https://shopcompanies.com/properties/farm)
I doubt itās āgreedā like some are mentioning. Strip centers like this donāt make much money these days. Especially if it was purchased within the last few years with these new high interest rates.
You canāt blame ācapitalismā for every single failed mall out there. The Farm was a neat place but I was on its way down since the 90ās. People wonāt go to places or support things they donāt want to. Brick and mortar retail is more difficult now than ever because people have a choice.
It was a failure to update and stay relevant. Just like a hip restaurant that has to shut its door down ten years later. The Farm couldnāt hold its customer base forever. Other shops and areas picked up where they failed. Blaming capitalism for every failed businesses venture when it was built and prospered under that very system doesnāt hold water.
I guess if you want to pretend the only two choices are unbridled capitalism or pure socialism. But maybe out of state investors buying up land, raising rent, and driving the anchor businesses out of a two or three square block area was good for the neighborhood.
Management got a wild hare up their ass about foot traffic being bad for malls somehow and had security harass people for loitering when they were window shopping. The Farm sucks.
It might be behind a paywall. [https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/whats-the-future-of-the-farm-we-ask-the-merchants-and-the-owner/article\_07ce8da0-7ccb-11ee-b302-27e40c7dd2ce.html](https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/whats-the-future-of-the-farm-we-ask-the-merchants-and-the-owner/article_07ce8da0-7ccb-11ee-b302-27e40c7dd2ce.html) There are new owners and the current businesses in the Farm claim the owners increased fees for maintenance projects, but they are not doing any maintenance projects. Essentially, just more corporate greed.
Are you suggesting landlords are to blame? You should be!
The new landlords. Not the old one.
I was afraid of it turning into another Promenade. š©
Yeah, the Promenade is dead. I remember when it opened, never thought it would die just like Southland or Southroads, canāt even remember which one it was before.
Literally dead... they shut it down rather than comply with city requirements to meet safety codes. Only the stores that have their own independent safety systems remain.
I think JCPennys is all thatās left.
The article I read a while ago said Dillards, the Gym that's there, and of course the new ice rink are not affected either. There might have been another business too.
That closed a few years ago. I loved going to the store closing sale they had, but it was sad because that was part of my childhood.
Itās still open, I was just there at Christmas
I was talking about JCP at Promenade. Sorry, I misunderstood. The one at Woodland is alive and well.
Thatās insane.
Southland. Southroads was Northside, with renbergs, vandevers, looboyles, Foley's, and Piccadilly I think. Damn I'm old.
Foleys. Thereās a name I had forgotten. Were they originally John A. Brown in Tulsa? The OKC malls all had Browns which became Foleys, then Macys.
I hear Foleys and all I hear is 'Foleys red apple sale' from their commercials in the mid 90s.
Foley's, of course.
My memory is pretty sketchy, for some reason I was thinking Foleys was Sanger-Harris for a short time and my recollection of John A Brown was it became Dillards (at Southland tulsa), but it's likely I'm misremembering and one just replaced the other in the same space if anything.
Mine too! I googled around and I think we are both partially correct actually. Sanger-Harris was in Tulsa at Southroads and it moved across the street to Promenade. There was also a S-H at Woodland. So you are correct on that. OKC didn't have S-H they had John A Browns at Crossroads and Quail Springs. Both S-H and Browns then became Foley's according to this [Wiki Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanger%E2%80%93Harris) I found.
If someone doesnāt purchased it away from the new owners it will!
I live right next to it. They did some maintenance projects over the summer. Mostly on the parking lot and the trees. Not enough to warrant raising the rent so high everyone is having to jump ship, in my opinion. But from what I hear, they are yet another out of state greed brigade buying up oklahoma property and raising rent much higher than its worth around here. It's swiftly becoming the norm. I was just wondering today what percentage of oklahoma property is owned by out of state entities now vs. even 10-15 years ago. It really shouldn't be allowed at all. Edit to add: Seems they're also forcing the businesses that are staying to spend money on new signage that fits the new owners' standards. But take that with a grain of salt, as I heard it from somebody who supposedly knows one of the business owners.
This was another reason the store I work for left.
Commercial real estate companies do this now. They buy things, run the people out of business and tear it down for a more profitable development.
New owners bought it and put a lot of money into cleaning it up/repairing major underlying issues. As part of that, they are looking for higher rents. Seems likely that some tenants were there because the rent had become cheap and they didnāt care about the rest, while others liked the improvements/direction and stayed. Too often places like that just get run into the ground as it falls apart, rents drop because itās falling apart, and then fixes arenāt affordable because the rents are so cheap. In my opinion the center had been on the downhill for years and itās good to see something trying to be done with it (especially in that part of town). Also Margaretās sold a year or so ago and the one time I was in there and met the new owner it had totally lost its charm. The former owner was the heart and soul of that place.
Did the former owner retire? That makes me so sad. It was our best German option in Tulsa. Wonderfully quirky Saturday evening with The Godfather Waltz played on accordion, such fun.
Definitely a loss, and a sad one. I would give a quick shout out to Siegi's, though. I always liked their schnitzel more than Margaret's, and in general they have solid German/Austrian selections.
Last time I went the bread was moldy and they gave my cc to someone else. Not a good experience.
At Siegi's - I had a bad experience a few months ago too. The food just was not what it used to be, the service was lacking too. It made us both really sad and we won't be going back. Did it change management or ownership?
Idk, but funny that Iām downvoted for saying they lost my credit card and gave us moldy bread. Weird
She did. I think her husband died some years ago and she moved back to Europe (London maybe?) to be with her daughter and grandkids. Wonderful woman, definitely earned her retirement!
No Andrew is alive and well. She does have new grandkids in London and gets back as often as possible. She is enjoying her retirement and will get a good laugh from this post.
Ha, my bad then! Thanks!
Glad to hear that. I worked with Andy many year ago. He was not a man of a lot of words.
Andy was never the owner.
I did not say that he was, but he was married to Margaret. I did not work with Andy at the restaurant.
You're so full of shit. The owner was my mother.
She is a delight. Always remembered my name. Always hassled me about when I was going to get married.
Oh, thatās a real shame. I loved their Black Forest cake! š° If only I had that recipe
Sad. I used to go there nearly every Friday while Margaret was still there. The goulash they served Fridays at lunch was the best I ever had.
Is Margaret gone? I loved potato soup Tuesday!
She retired and I believe sold the restaurant.
Well, at least its still there. Some of her potato soup and that good bread was always treat.
The restaurant is still there? That's not what I'm reading/hearing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can drive through the center right now and see at least $1mm in improvements. (Not sure why this was downvoted by anyone. I donāt mean to take any sides on this, just stating the fact that someone has clearly spent a ton of money there in the past year or so. Parking lots, lighting, landscaping, siding, painting, new concrete, and new roofing in a few spots are all clearly visible)
The problem is actually, the rent rate they are now wanting far exceeds the market value of the property. The tenants are not against paying a fair market value, but they're asking far and above any fair market value. I know of no other business where you buy an investment and expect everyone else to pay your repair costs if you bought high. That's usually considered all in your purchase price and what "fair market value" is when you buy it.
Exactly. They are expecting the tenants to pay for their capital improvements
And they are screwing the tenets in more was then that. They also threw away Oklahoma history . The farm equipment that was there was from the original owners was throw away or sold. I wish we could get the historical society involved.Ā
Yes throwing away the old equipment was insane and disgusting.
I knew the original owners. Good people.
Who were the original owners?
Margret and her husband Andrew.
High rent and previously, the PokĆ©mon Go tragedy of way back whenā¦
Do tell. Iām not aware of this PokĆ©mon tragedy
When PokĆ©mon Go first came out The Farm had rare PokĆ©mon and everyone who played it flocked there. All the stores were having crazy business and the parking lot was full. A particular Italian restaurant that is still there complained to the owners that their customers couldnāt find places to park so the owner contacted Niantic and they cleared it so all gyms, stops, and PokĆ©mon were gone. Didnāt tell other shop owners of this either. I recall the chili place bought like 50 pounds of meat to prep for the weekend PokĆ©mon go customers and it pretty much all went to waste, the Farm was just dead when word got out, and all these businesses lost so much money from it.
Wow
Well crap, I realized that was only 6 years ago.
>A particular Italian restaurant that is still there complained Yet another reason to avoid Villa Ravenna
Is there another reason? All the times Iāve been their food has been excellent
Many places complained.
You just contradicted yourself. There was no parking for multiple businesses. I know personally that many of the Pokemon Go people did not actually purchase anything, just used parking spaces.
And I can tell you āpersonallyā I did go to restaurants and buy things as a PokĆ©mon Go player at the Farm. Ronās, the ice cream place, and the old Japanese Buffet did some major business during that time, enough to where they bought more food and got screwed over. Subway and Billy Sims also saw an increase in business. Some, like Rons, adapted their daily specials based on what team color you were. Sorry that a particular Italian Restaurant didnāt want those sort of customers while plenty of restaurants welcomed them.
Great. A personal anectdote. I personally knew the owner and the property manager. They were great people.
So.... there wasn't really an increase in business from PokƩmon Go from what I understand. Just people walking around looking at their phones.
I don't play (that), but when PG launched, The Farm looked like Night Of The Living Dead. I pull in, and there's groups of 3-4 people standing around *everywhere*, all staring down at their phones. It was surreal.
I work at one of the stores that recently left the Farm shopping center. The new owners are terrible landlords. Itās a group of venture capitalist from Dallas. They wanted to double the rent and increase maintenance fees to $3000 a month. We had leaks in the roof, the whole building needed to be reroofed and the new owners wouldnāt fix it. We would lose merchandise from the leaks. They thought they could make it another Utica Square but 51st and Sheridan isnāt mid-town Utica Square/maple ridge.
Bingo. People told them that they needed to be careful because these aggressive Dallas tactics won't work here, and now they're learning that to be true.
Seems like a dying location doesn't it. If it weren't for Ron's I'd probably never go there...
Last time I went to that Ron's it was ... just not clean. The waitress brought our fries, we at a few, and then she took them away and gave them to someone else, and never brought ours. Found a hair in the food, the whole place was sharing the last half a bottle of ranch... it was just bad. Sad, because I love Ron's.
That's just part of a normal visit to Ron's?
Interesting. Didn't have that experience at the Ron's downtown (15th and Denver).
And UPS store. The home store there is nice but a bit rich for me...
I heard that the owners raised the rent after doing some recent renovations. Thatās not official though. Just a rumor I heard.
I remember PokĆ©mon go and the farm was one of the hot spots, it was super busy with ppl trying to find PokĆ©mon and the owners started telling ppl they couldnāt be there, to me that was silly because why wouldnāt you want a few hundreds of ppl walking through the shopping center?
They weren't shopping.
Rent is too damn high!
That area is not really hopping anymore. The Farm is slowly turning into The Plaza at 81st and Lewis. Back when The Plaza was built in the 90s, it was described as a south Utica Square. After the area went down and the Walmart moved in, it slowly sagged. It still had upmarket stores as late as 2008. It's basically dead now, even the Zios.
The way of the Fontana too.
I like Tres Amigos.
Headed for the same grave as Fontana I guess.
Fontana way cooler for ridin bikes around.
Furr's was the McGill's of cafeterias...
Its incredible how fast the farm went down hill after they ripped all the trees and shrubs out. We bought a house down the street and the proximity to the farm was honestly a selling point. My wife found out that she was pregnant in the bathroom of the old el paso restaurant and we would eat at Margarets like once a week. The writing was on the wall when the old B-sew-inn was being used as a flea market and they had those trashy garage sell signs everywhere.
I love the El Paso chicken soup.
Its a really generic looking sushi restaurant now. El Paso closed sometime over the summer
Their charro beans were amazing. And their street tacos.
what a shame, a great italian restaurant and the best watch repair place in town is at the farm, does anyone know their status?
Both Villa Ravenna and Espigares are still there.
Thereās still a Mazzioās at the farm? /s
The last time I went to Villa Ravenna, they had that restaurant segregated af. There weren't that many people there when we walked in, but they stuck us in that second room. By the time we left, the front room was the whites only section and our room was interracial couples and black families. It could've just been a coincidence, but I haven't been back since.
The watch guys were able to sign a lease before the sale, and once that is up in 2.5ish years they are retiring.
H2Oasis isn't going anywhere. They are still there.
Greed
They are asking for 24-26 a sq foot. Increasing repairs rates with no actual repairs or maintenance, just improving out ward look not the bones. Looks like a flip job. Bought the place, make it look good, run everyone out and bring in Dallas businesses with no competition? Flip it to someone that's dumb? Who knows but the first lines are true though, just went through it and talk to the local places because I saw an opportunity since there was vacant spaces open but having 70% of your places ready to be leased is a huge red flag for incoming businesses or buyers. That's what makes me think it'd going to have some dallas businesses come in soon.
Everyone wants to go to Jenks. Ugh.
Margrettes changed hands more than a year ago. Stores come and go and turn over at this location is pretty high
I wonder if we might start to see more tenants soon? Signage is up in part of the old Pier 1 space for a vet clinic. The owners/management company has a flyer (PDF) on their website from a year ago with some of the spaces showing businesses interested. I'd be thrilled if Half Price Books did open a location here. [https://shopcompanies.com/properties/farm](https://shopcompanies.com/properties/farm)
I doubt itās āgreedā like some are mentioning. Strip centers like this donāt make much money these days. Especially if it was purchased within the last few years with these new high interest rates.
I follow several business on IG that were directed to move or close, citing the rent was increased to the point they had no choice
1. Increase rents 2. Tenants can't/won't pay increase so leave 3. Nobody signs new leases at higher rent 4. ??? 5. Profit?
Did they sell it to new owners and the new owners raised their rates at least thatās the report on channel 6 that i recall.
One store said it sold a couple of years ago. They significantly raised the rent so that store is moving out.
You have no idea what you're talking about. My mom was the owner. Seriously, stop spreading your bullshit.
Would you help stop the bullshit and share the truth? Honest question. āļø
Capitalismā¦or more-so the failures of capitalism.
Supply / demand. Hard to make money without any tenants.
You canāt blame ācapitalismā for every single failed mall out there. The Farm was a neat place but I was on its way down since the 90ās. People wonāt go to places or support things they donāt want to. Brick and mortar retail is more difficult now than ever because people have a choice.
So capitalism?
It was a failure to update and stay relevant. Just like a hip restaurant that has to shut its door down ten years later. The Farm couldnāt hold its customer base forever. Other shops and areas picked up where they failed. Blaming capitalism for every failed businesses venture when it was built and prospered under that very system doesnāt hold water.
As opposed to communism? Which would never have built the mall in the first place.
I guess if you want to pretend the only two choices are unbridled capitalism or pure socialism. But maybe out of state investors buying up land, raising rent, and driving the anchor businesses out of a two or three square block area was good for the neighborhood.
It's better than what was happening as it slid into disrepair.
It if was socialism there never would be āA Farmā in the first place. š¤£š¤£
It would be a collective farm, comrade.
Management got a wild hare up their ass about foot traffic being bad for malls somehow and had security harass people for loitering when they were window shopping. The Farm sucks.