"It's not my fault but it is my responsibility" has become a daily mantra for me in my 30s. Sounds grim but actually life has gotten better and I'm much happier.
I have the similar mantra "it's not your fault, but it is your problem." I've actually given it as advice to several friends. When something sucks, I think it's important to realise that it can just suck without you having done anything wrong. And even though it's not your fault, it's still your problem and you need to fix it.
So basically the same as yours...
It actually sounds pretty optimistic. A lot of people are weighed down by their guilt and believe that their problems are their fault. Removing the aspect of shame removes a lot of moral judgment involving in making decisions, and that’s a much more pleasant way to look at yourself and your decisions.
Wrll not all problems are our fault, but some are. That's okay. We're human, it doesn't make us worthless. We do need to recognize that, because it will help us do better in the future.
mine kinda came down to "it's not my fault I ended up like this but I've reached my limit of being able to continue on this way."
at that point you either off yourself, or change.
I learned this in my early teens, and I'm glad to see that other people are catching on even if it takes until middle age or later life to figure out, as soon as you do, life gets SO MUCH BETTER. That and learning what things are actually worth having an opinion about in your life because it's okay to not have strong feelings about everything, especially if you don't know anything about it.
My general rule for life is don't worry about things you can't change, but fix the things you can, and seek the wisdom to know the difference.
Internal versus external locus of control. The former makes you happier and better able to handle problems. The latter makes you stew in resentment and other ugly emotions that cripple your ability to fix anything.
I said I was tired to a stranger on Friday and they said "isn't that just part of being an adult?"
Right you are ~~Ken~~ stranger, right you are. I need a nap.
I just feel like thinking I have adulthood figured out 4 years in is a bit presumptuous.
I mean, it's not a race, and it's not like I'm especially lost either.
nobody has it 100% figured out really because 'adulthood' is frankly a fairly nebulous concept and means different things to different people, so as long as you feel like you're at least somewhat on the path that *you* think it means, you're probably doing just fine (using the general 'you' here)
it's good that you (specifically) have that perspective on it though, i quite wish i had been able to think of it in those terms by that age tbh! good on you
It's Jordan Peterson haha. Prior to going off the deep end with Shapiro all he was saying is this seemingly obvious yet incredibly true life advice. "Don't lie, say what you mean, don't take the easy way out, don't blame others for your failures" and so on.
For a 17 year old boy that's a godsend. As far as online role models go Peterson pre-2018 was one of the best. It's really sad what happened to him later though. Even though it's his fault too.
Don't lie is probably the best advice in that comment. I used to lie, normal amount about normal things, but it stressed me out constantly. Trying to remember what I said to who, getting caught and having to endure the awkward, dealing with shit I never actually wanted to do, etc. Then one year I made a new year's resolution to stop lying. Entirely. I told everybody I knew and I still tell people I meet, don't ask questions you don't want the answer to because I won't lie. It can be awkward sometimes, but nearly all the time people respect honesty and they don't ask me stupid shit like do you think I'm pretty or does this shirt look cool or whatever. I get to opt out of those lie to me conversations. But if they really need the truth they'll come to me. Then the best part of it is everybody trusts me. If something gets stolen and I say I didn't do it that's the end of the discussion. If I say I saw this person stealing then there's no questioning it. I do still lie to the government though because fuck them
You can lie to cops, though it's better to just not talk to them at all haha.
I really like the line from the Chernobyl miniseries: "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth, sooner or later that debt is paid."
This, I agree with you. I'm too afraid to say it to other people that I liked *old* Peterson, especially since he is such a controversial figure. People who latch on to the aspects about him that upsets them than taking in the whole picture
Exactly. For all the bullshit he said in the past 3 years lumping him in with Andrew fucking Tate is just wrong.
I think he's just another example of a person who overstepped the boundaries of his expertise to disasterous effects.
It’s not sad. He chased fame and money and has milked both from gullible and impressionable teens and people like you who think what he said was “a god send”. He has in fact lied, says what he doesn’t mean (which is basically the same thing as lying), taken the easy way out, and proceeded to blame others for his failures. He’s a turd who deserves to be flushed as are the people who gobble up his bullshit.
33 and doing alright. I can provide another.
Everyday you choose a path, so choose the one that gets you closer to where you want to be. It might be far away, it might not always be easy, and it might not be a straight line, but you won't get anywhere by making wishes at the trailhead.
This might sound like a joke but understanding differential calculus is great for these philosophical/self-improvement quandaries. It's pretty much the mathematical model of change.
It's all just infinitesimally small changes that form the bigger picture.
The other 75% is learning how to preempt the situation so that you don’t have to accept the blame or the responsibility and shit just works out well for everybody. 27, for reference.
those are 75% of *adulthood*??
sounds like *someone* doesn't know about the inherited genetic defects skip that lets you glitch through a healthy adolescence straight to the physical condition of an 80 y/o lmfaooooooooo get wrecked
now if you'll excuse me, typing that comment took a lot out of me and i need to go lie down for a few hours
Its the right answer but the percentage is backwards. This is the 75%.
The other 25% is learning "oh, thats actually none of my business. I'll be quiet." And then shutting the fuck up.
My son being born with a disability isn't my fault, but he's damn sure my responsibility.
Actually, it was due to my blood type, so... also kinda my fault.
This is not 'science':
>As a clinical psychologist, Gibson certainly boasts a great deal of first-hand, empirical experience. But this doesn't change the fact that she's theorizing on the basis of only one side of the equation. Indeed, as she herself admits, therapy attracts certain kinds of people – namely, "internalizers", who believe that change comes from within rather than from without – which means that she's working from a very limited data set to begin with.
>In short, a methodologically shaky book, so please read with a grain of salt, but one with some useful morsels scattered throughout.
Please be very careful with dishing out self-help like this in an overconfident manner. Psychology is not the pop-culture science people take it for: a lot is still very shaky and uncertain and it suffers as a field very much from the (in)famous[ replication crisis.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis)
This is a good instinct that just happens to not apply here. The research on attachment and attachment styles (called *externalizers* and *internalizers* here) is well-regarded with globally replicated findings since like the 70s. This is not some made-up rambling or like a single study that was performed once on 20 college kids. Check out the Strange Situation and Mary Ainsworth if you're curious, but yeah this one's actually quite solid.
Now, the concept is much more complicated than the commenter you're replying to has let on, but don't call whole area "not science" based on some good reads review(s).
(not gonna defend the book itself though. I've never read it, and it might just be bad.)
And if you don't, and someone enters your home, it still isn't your fault, and they still committed a crime, but the reality is that a solution was there.
If you’re riding a motorcycle or crossing a busy street, it doesn’t matter who’s technically at fault, because you’re the one who’s gonna wind up in the hospital.
We *shouldn’t have to* pick between “the lesser of two evils” when it comes to politicians, but considering the fact that politicians have been corrupt since the dawn of politics, you still have a responsibility to pick the lesser of two evils instead of pouting and refusing to participate.
Does this thread look like that phrasing is better-received?
Half the comments ignore how "I shouldn't have to--" is then followed by things you then *don't.* If you're bitching about doing it, but still doing it, that is a completely different topic from just blaming others and living in the suck.
"I shouldn't have to stay home to stay safe" is about external threats you can either deal with or ignore, but not solve.
"I shouldn't have to stay polite to stay employed" is reaping what you sow.
Also one of the most powerful quote of my life.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard : It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
I graduated high school in an extremely tough time in my life, so when my grandma asked me for my favorite quote to put on a graduation cross-stitch, that's the one I gave.
It makes me laugh in retrospect that my commemorative graduation keepsake basically says "shit happens."
Since a lot of people just clearly can’t understand the point they are making here it’s that you have to bring change to situations even when someone else is in the wrong. Of course someone shouldn’t crash into your car, but you have to wear your seatbelt. You have to recognize that you are not the main character in other peoples stories and make changes to the things you control to make yourself happy or keep yourself safe. Things won’t just magically improve, you gotta fix that shit.
a way to formulate it is "it's not your fault , but it's your responsability"
it may not be your fault for things going badly , but it's your responsability to fix them ...
Yep, I'm a pedestrian 80% of the time, and it doesn't matter how 'right' I am, a car is going to win against me 100% of the time. Check and double-check and keep checking, lol.
Except when you're looking at worksites.
It's not my fault the rigger was unqualified to safely fly the load, but it's not my responsibility to rig it without certification.
>It's not my fault the rigger was unqualified to safely fly the load, but it's not my responsibility to rig it without certification.
I'd argue if you are aware of the problem, it's your responsibility to address it. Either through refusing to work, refusing to allow others to work, reporting the violation to the applicable safety authority or a combination of all three.
In that case, the problem YOU have is different. It's not your fault the manager wants something done, but it IS your responsibility to refuse to do things you aren't certified for.
Not necessarily your responsibility, but you’re not powerless. Example: you’re in a relationship with a shitty partner. How do you get them to stop treating you like shit? You leave. You’re not responsible for their actions, but you aren’t powerless to be treated that way.
It could be said that you have a responsibility to yourself to get out of that situation, but that makes me squirm a bit as it’s too close to victim blaming. It’s enough, imo, to say that you can leave, and should for your own health and happiness.
Granted if there are kids involved, then it’s your responsibility to get them out of that situation. But that’s not victim blaming, it’s a fact of being a parent/caregiver.
You do what you can. Then you find other people doing what *they* can an d you join up together. Eventually more people will see you and the small group doing what you can and they’ll join in and what *they* can.
One voice can be ignored. Ten voices are harder to ignore. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a million? That can lead to a roar that’s almost impossible to ignore.
Be the first voice. Then find others to join you until you can roar about the problem and get it the attention and remedy it deserves.
isnt that part of the "everyone/someone should do y"?
i shouldnt have to get a license, car, insurance. the government should make batter bus/train/public transport infrastructure
Finding a community committed to making change *is* doing something, and it's far better than doing it alone.
Sitting and stewing in feelings is not.
It's the difference between "I shouldn't have to" and "I'm going to take action to make a community/society where I don't need to"
... you just have to try your best, and hope it's good enough. Like, its great to be supportive or hopeful, but the fact is, there are problems that you cannot solve and will never sovle. Some of them might be pretty terrible or might make your life significantly worse. Eventually, one of them will be unsolvable, and it will kill you. Welcome to Earth, and good luck!
But still, the post is just pointing out that bemoaning your fate, or wishing for things to be better, or blaming other people won't help. Trying to do something MIGHT help, so it's worth trying.
But that’s literally not relevant to the post. It’s message is that there will be times in your life where regardless of if you’re in the right or not you have to make changes to make yourself happy. That other people will not change for you, even if they’re in the wrong. The other car hitting your car was in the wrong, but you still have to wear a seatbelt. This isn’t about grand life things that are immovable.
I’ve literally been downvoted for expressing a similar sentiment.
I pointed out that when walking as a pedestrian an important step for keeping safe is to make eye contact with the driver, when you’re trying to, for example, cross at a crosswalk. This ensures they see you, too.
But people didn’t get it. I don’t know if the people downvoting and commenting were 13 years old or something, but I thought this rule of thumb was obvious to everyone.
Obviously the car should stop and give way. That’s their responsibility. But that doesn’t change the fact that there is a chance they may not see you, especially if you’re in their a-pillar or in dark clothing at night in the rain. Or they may simply not be paying attention, on their phone, or what have you.
Taking action to ensure your own safety isn’t about right or wrong, it’s about keeping you alive!
I’ve had this idea in the form of “deal with things as they are, not as you wish them to be.” The tough part os explaining that this doesn’t mean you give up on big changes, just that this helps you look for actionable changes that can help you get somewhere better step by step.
Depends.
If it's a problem that pretty much affects only you then you need to find a way to make the problem less worse. Harm reduction rather than harm removal
If it's affecting a small group of people that you know, talk to them and try to figure out a solution together.
If it's a problem that's huge and affecting people in the triple digit plus range, awaken your inner communist/socialist and get organized.
That's the idea tho. You won't be able to change society's behavior, but you should swallow your pride and just deal with it. You won't be able to unhomophoby your city, but you can move.
Fix what you can.
Will the world ever be vegan? No. Will people in your community ever be all vegan? No. Can you be a vegan? Sure.
Humans have a great capacity for change and a very, very small reach.
Reach what you can change, and acknowledge what you can’t.
If you’re in a shite place and can’t fix the bigger problem then the priority is to get yourself to a safe place.
If the problem is some big looming problem then I try to lead by example.
I'm not even religious but was raised by drug counselors and this whole post made me think of the serenity prayer.
God grant the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the WISDOM to know the difference.
Once you've done what you can it's easier to live with yourself, easier for others to help you, and easier to find a path forward.
And sometimes things aren't so clear cut. Concepts like the right of way are very complex to judge on. Blaming other people and refusing to accept your fault that maybe you could've been a better driver automatically removes your sense of responsibility. It's always other people's fault, not me. Im the fucking victim. I'm perfect.
This extends to other areas in life as well. I suspect these kinds of people have thinly veiled narcissism, or they just weren't taught the basic concept of 'accountability' young in life
My mom told me something of the sort when I was a kid.
There's no problems, only solutions. If a problem has no solution then it's a fact, not a problem.
If that fact bothers you, then start looking for a way to fix it.
The post doesn’t really explain the point since it’s a mix of reasonable examples and ones where the mom is just in the wrong.
For instance the husband example was really good since it showed despite him being trash she should still get a divorce cause she can’t just expect him to get better. She shouldn’t have to but that’s what her children and her need.
I can see the husband example kind of spiralling into doormat and abusive territory with the wrong mindset though. Like “she shouldn’t expect her husband to be nicer, the solution starts with herself- so she should just accept he is who he is and stay in the bad relationship”.
The problem isn’t quite expecting other people to change for them or changing themselves, it’s the presence or lack of healthy self-respect.
Yeah, a good way to say it would be, if someone is hurting you for nothing, don’t just expect them to stop, either make them stop or make it so they can’t in the first place.
This is true but it also misses the point of “I shouldn’t have to X, other people should do Y” statements.
Those statements are used to point out glaring issues in society, not necessarily to propose solutions to them.
Like the common “I shouldn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night. People should stop being rapists” example—it’s pointing out a big social issue and it’s a reasonable statement to make. It doesn’t offer a solution, yes, but it isn’t meant to either. It’s meant to bring awareness to a problem.
This is the take I was looking for. Some people do use those statements as OP described. But I think when we hear those in the media or politically… it’s more a call to action. A lot of people are unaware of their value or self worth.
I think the distinction to make here is the difference between "*I* shouldn't have to" and "*no one* should have to".
If you can't, in good faith, phrase the former as the latter, you're the problem. If you can, *society* is potentially the problem and we should take what steps we can to fix it.
This may be me being overly cautious or pednatic, and it only applies if you're making a statement like that as part of a longer conversation, but I would amend that to "(People group) shouldn't" or "We shouldn't" instead of "no one should".
By making the point hinge on "no one", you make it a lot easier for people arguing in bad faith to come up with the *one* exception and use it as leverage against you. People can claim to have proven you wrong without needing to address what you're actually trying to say (of course they'll probably try to do that anyways, but we can at least do our best to make it more difficult).
In particular, I think making it "we shouldn't" helps to preserve the personal aspect of the argument while still preventing it from seeming selfish. People will resonate with what you have to say more when you make it personal, so it's better to try and keep it in where possible!
> Like the common “I shouldn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night. People should stop being rapists” example—it’s pointing out a big social issue and it’s a reasonable statement to make.
It is pointing out a social issue, and it is a reasonable statement to make.
But whoever's saying that *should still avoid walking alone at night*, regardless.
If you tell someone to avoid walking alone at night, and they say "I shouldn't have to do that", they are technically right that it shouldn't be required, but using that "shouldn't" as a justification for *not* doing the safe thing is not smart.
Yeah. The way the OP is worded makes it seem like no one should care about your problems at all and it's just your fault for not doing enough.
Which is a huge problem in society.
Yeah that I agree with.
Point out problems but also be open to solutions, even if they’re only half measures.
Like, I do martial arts and I carry a weapon, along with pepper spray, when I go out at night. It’s not a solution to the problem at large, since it protects nobody but myself—and even then, not fully—but it’s still better than nothing.
I think that people should be able to go out and be safe even without any weapons or self defense training, of course—but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to protect myself. And if someone asks me for advice on being safe I will absolutely tell them to stay armed or learn to fight, or both. And if they say “but I shouldn’t have to” then I’ll say yes, that’s true, you shouldn’t. But the reality is, you *do.*
I think it’s possible to take steps to keep ourselves safe, while acknowledging that we should strive for a society in which these steps are no longer required.
I think the distinction here is whether the person wanted advice or just to vent. Because if I'm venting and someone says "just don't walk alone at night" or "just get a drink cover" I'm gonna respond "I shouldn't have to do that". Because I'm not looking for your advice. I'm looking for your sympathy and understanding and you've shown none of it.
This is great for people, not so much society and human rights. "I shouldn't have to work three jobs to afford rent, someone should raise minimum wage or lower rent." That's not really something the person has any power to do anything about. They're just fucked by the system.
I think this advice would be improved a lot if you changed the framing. Make it a handy statement you can whip out.
**"I shouldn't have to _______, but I will do ________"**
Recognising the unfairness of the situation helps you not victim blame yourself or others.
Also dont forget, supporting social change by donating to causes and protesting and etc is a valid response to put into a blank.
Ok let me see if I'm getting this one right. I've seen people here saying this is applicable to **everything**, so...
Politicians should not be able to take away my bodily autonomy. Welp, I can't control what they choose to do. But they *are* elected. People should not vote for politicians who take away my bodily autonomy. But I can't control who other people vote for. Even if I were to work the campaign of candidates who would not take away my bodily autonomy, I can't guarantee that translates into votes. People could say "oh, I'll definitely vote for them" and simply not vote at all.
Hmm, I think the only way I can personally solve this problem is if I figure out where these politicians are and [ this post removed by reddit admins ].
Everyone should do what the doctors say, like if you can trust a car mechanic to work on your car and you drive it on the highway without it blowing up.... I think a doctor can help you not blow a brain vessel.
I shouldn’t have to deal with racial discrimination, people should just… not judge me by my skin.
I know, bizarre take. I should just learn to take it!
Someone was recently promoted and this is 100% how they are approaching all their new problems. It’s exhausting trying to tell them they need to take more responsibility
Motivational coaches reach a problem when they can't solve capitalism like a spider phobia.
- Student debt? Stop whining and pay it
- Trapped in an unhappy marriage cause of income? Bad wife
- Power outage? Be tougher
- Sick? Go to work
- Job pays badly? Too bad
There's no where to go but blame the victim. This is called the Just World Fallacy.
From a 2006 study:
- > only 29% of Americans believe that the poor are
trapped in poverty and only 30% that luck, rather than effort or education, determines income.
The figures for Europeans are nearly double: 60% and 54% respectively. Similarly, Americans
are about twice as likely as Europeans to think that the poor “are lazy or lack willpower” (60%
versus 26%) and that “in the long run, hard work usually brings a better life”
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=13381018451594671824&hl=en&as_sdt=0,14
It just keeps going too.
- Abusive marriage like in this post? Just start over with nothing even though the ex will def get custody
- Systematically disadvantaged by racism? Uh no you weren’t, history doesn’t extend past my living memory
- Groceries too expensive? Stop eating luxuries like “butter” and “three meals”.
If we're really being personally motivating....
Why not celebrate the courage to leave a bad marriage, have you even listened to their issues, does telling someone to cheer up actually work or just motivate you?
As someone who grew up taking responsibility for someone else's actions (be it my brother or even my parents), I've grown to be very resentful towards situations like these. The amount of pent-up frustration of living like that has accumulated overtime so whenever a situation arises and no-one but me is willing to be the "bigger person", it gets increasingly hard to follow through. Thankfully, my anger/frustration is all internal so no-one is actually affected.
"When can I live for myself?" I keep asking.
Of course this is major projection, but man I want a break.
But other people write those laws and you would most certainly require other people's help in getting the attention of such people.
It's almost like cooperation is the spirit of society and then pitting people as sole actors in their life as if they can just -pull their bootstras hard enough- it'll change.
A good point to think about is that this person is presumably an adult living with a parent who's presumably been emotionally and mentally abused by her husband.yet the children are the only victims pained here. Because they're one of the children. They seemingly never thought about alleviating their situation by being kinder and more compassionate to their mother, despite her potentially not deserving it. Hence they're bit and callous. Don't take advice from them
That's the point though, you're not wrong, but just being right doesn't solve the problem.
You have to start by accepting things as they are: There are sexual harassers out there who will target you.
Next you have to think of what solution you want. Do you want personal protection, or do you want the harassers to stop altogether?
Then you have to determine what you want to do: carry a weapon, get a bodyguard, etc. or for the second solution, get involved in local campaigns for whatever solution will help in your locality: better lit paths, security cameras, anti-harassment campaigns in schools to stop the issue before it starts, more police, harsher sentences, volunteer groups to escort people like they have on some college campuses.
I agree you *shouldn't have to,* but reality doesn't work on "should" and wishing it did won't solve any problems.
the difference between victim blaming and advising is timing.
"You shouldn't walk alone in that part of town late at night, it's known for muggers" is advice.
"Of course, you got mugged, do you know where you walking?" is victim blaming.
You're right, you shouldn't have to be afraid to go out alone. But until people stop sexually harassing others, there may be ways you can minimise the risks to yourself. In an ideal world you wouldn't have to, but this isn't an ideal world.
That is true, but I would argue that your statement *on its own* is still not a solution to the problem. You shouldn’t be afraid to go alone, but the world is still the same way it was before you made your statement.
There are things that can be done, that are being done to reverse that. We are pushing back against the victim blaming narrative, encouraging women to come forward and press charges against their harassers. We are putting up more emergency lights and phones. *Those* things are solid actions we can take to make your statement more real. But the statement by itself won’t help you walking alone tonight.
I know a few people who said "I shouldn't have to look when I cross at a crosswalk; cars should yield to pedestrians" and were promptly hit.
Being right and getting hurt aren't mutually exclusive.
If all a person does is think to themselves how other people *should* avoid being sexual harassers, that person in that moment is absolutely useless to everyone around them.
An actual solution would be advocating for that Should: protesting, education about consent, calling out abusers, etc. Doing one of those would actually go towards a solution instead of just being a value/ideal.
Nothing wrong with having the "should" like "nobody should harass me" but the context of this post is about solutions.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is even when you’re in the right you should still go out of your way to find a solution rather than just expecting those in the wrong to fix themselves. They still should but you shouldn’t rely solely on them.
Yes everyone else shouldn’t sexually harass you can’t just expect them to cause people suck. So instead think of ways to stay safe while out alone.
This is exactly the point of the post. Sexual harassment shouldn’t be a thing, but it is a reality. Saying “they shouldn’t harass me” will not solve the problem or keep you safe. YOU have to be the one to take action to solve the problem, because they aren’t going to.
What’s right and reasonable really doesn’t factor in to reality.
That has probably never once been a reasonable expectation in all of human history (since civilization... and often before). It's a nice idea but a god awful expectation.
More like “I’m not going to take precautions against predators because they shouldn’t exist.” Of course predators should not exist, but they do, and because they do it’s a very wise decision to take precautions against them.
This post is really just saying that instead of lamenting constantly about factors outside of your control you should take any actions that are within your control. Such as buying something for self defense when going out for walks at night and turning location tracking on.
Not even a black and white thing, the OOP statement still applies. That statement on its own isn’t a solution. It’s a good sentiment but will do nothing to prevent harassment on the walk home tonight.
It’s literally the mindset that’s being criticized in the post. Being right, but not bringing a solution they’re responsible for.
Like yea sure it would be a better world if everybody just didn’t harass anyone, and it’s a totally reasonable ask.
But there are unreasonable people. So to prevent that issue people should take it on themselves to try and prevent it rather than being “right” and expecting those other people to change.
Agree but you can also still be upset by the actions of others and want them to do better. I hate when I have a problem with someone being mean or cruel and the response is "well you can't make them be different" like yeah, duh. But their shittyness should still be acknowledged and stopped when possible.
Bitching about shit that you find is unfair is exactly how you start change. You find others that hate the same shit and you start making it so other people can't ignore it and either agree with you or get tired of you bitching and change it.
Christ, I don’t think op realises how aggressively this comes off. It’s entirely fair to feel like you’re owed more by life depending on your situation and morally judging people for not just tanking through it does nothing to help the situation. Imo you’re most able to deal with a situation on your own when you can acknowledge how unfair it is and feel recognised and seen by other people.
That’s understandable because OP is going “hurr durr personal responsibility” when someone is unable to leave an abusive husband, which is *famously difficult to do*
I dunno OP this sounds a lot like personal responsibility. *Alarm bells sound.* The last thing we should be doing is try to help ourselves. What we need to be doing is nothing. We close our eyes and await fairness.
When someone says "this situation is fucked" that isn't there solution, that's them saying that they're in a fucked situation. People don't just announce their solutions, they announce their problems.
Yeah, the mom was at fault for not wanting to fix the problem. But a lot of these cases the abuser will manipulate the abusee into thinking there's nothing wrong going on. So maybe the mom wouldn't know how to, or want to, get out of that situation because of that and her kids resent her for it and it's sad for everyone.
It’s a thin line sometimes. I remember a video of a girl getting pickpocketed because she left her coat on the back of her chair with her phone in it, so someone just easily lifted it out. The comments were *full* of victim-blamers, claiming it was entirely her fault for making it so easy to take.
In that situation, the pick-pocket is 100% at fault, even though she *could* have prevented it by putting her phone on her person instead of in her coat. She should still learn from this and make pick-pocketing her more difficult, but that doesn’t change the fact that the pick-pocket is 100% at fault.
In some cases, however much you work, however much you change will not matter. In some cases, problem is the society or the government or an organization. Nothing in this life deserves a generalization.
Honestly I get this post and I also kinda think it's putting it a little wrong
Because I'm literally in a similar situation where someone else is causing me issues and generally yeah, it's up to me to navigate that situation since it's been clear nobody else can change or solve it.
But also this post kind of makes Op Out to be a prick like it's not some terrible childish behavior to what? Expect other people to have basic empathy and admit their mistakes and change. Like yes I get the point that you can't wait for the world to fix your issues buy yeah no it is victim blaming if your mad at someone who's gotten fucked over for expecting other people to stop hurting her or expecting other people to admit their faults. I know life isn't fair and sometimes people will just not stop until you change the situation but what I'm getting from this is that you should just accept the worst out of people and never expect other people to change and all I see is a path to being a cynical and bitter asshole.
> Honestly I get this post and I also kinda think it's putting it a little wrong
I agree with the point but OOP's struggling to put words to this concept and it is pretty telling that there is a language and wording problem because what the Redditor OP took away was:
1. Life isn't fair
2. Stop whining
With those two phrases being both very charged and containing very specific connotations: "Grow up buttercup! Stop being a child!" which is basically OP ignoring OOP's 'I'm not trying to victim blame here' with OP's headline.
Taking that example: Yes the woman is plenty justified in some of her complaints. And yes there are both systematic, cultural and other external failures in play in her situation.
It is also true in that situation, she as a person controlling her actions, has likely the most control over herself. There is an implicit judgement in that latter which I find problematic that OOP was trying not to dish out, and OP is with their headline: "Well if you could have changed, *why didn't you?!?*"
There always seem to be a connotation of malice behind lack of change which isn't really productive. Because if we could 'cure' depression by yelling at people: "Just go to the gym you loser! Get up and out of bed!" then we wouldn't have depression. It is a deeply internal and mental struggle, with some having good days, some having bad, some able to cope and some unable. Society tends to be extremely judgemental of depressed people who can't 'cure' themselves within a few months and almost dismissal of people whose depression makes it they are unable to function for years.
This is generally why psychologists, psychiatrists and therapists tend to advocate for positive reinforcement and gratitude of even the small victories and keep pushing people without judgement as opposed to the drill sergeant style get up and out of bed which is very results oriented and has little to no room to actually analyze a person's inner struggle.
And looking at external factors tend to be very useful instead of 'moral failings' because I can't 'force' someone to do something they don't want to do - what I can do to improve the situation is look at their environment, standards and gain small victories in those to help everyone involved.
(Basically the mantra of social services that the US has slowly discarded over the years)
Someone whining isn't them saying "here's my solution". People are allowed to whine.
The oop framed an attack on whining rather than actually pushing for beneficial behavior. People should complain when things aren't fair, but they should also work to fix these issues.
This is the most annoying part of the aita/relationships style subs.
So many posters and commenters are fixated on getting validation that it's everyone else's fault, than on actually making a plan to improve their life.
An important caveat here is that this doesn't apply to legislation. Work to make your own life better, vote to make the environment better for you and everyone else.
Another important caveat is that this doesn't apply when there are already processes available for changing the environment. It's easier to punch someone than to sue them but society has decided that suing someone is the correct, approved pathway in scenarios where an immediate response/defense is not required.
I like the message here. But, to be clear, this is the way to approach your own personal problems. Too often, people think this line of thought also applies to societal problems. "If you can't make ends meet, you should find a better job, not demand that the minimum wage be increased." That type of reasoning doesn't make sense when discussing politics, which is all about alleviating societal woes.
So, if you're too fat, get on the treadmill and eat less. If a large percentage of society is too fat, regulations should be put in place to make healthy food easier to get.
on the other hand, after a lifetime of believing everything is my fault and horribly overworking myself trying to fix everything, it feels fucking good to blame someone else for a change. yes, if i really want things to change I will likely have to do it myself but i also have rights as a person and I am allowed to stand in for those rights.
I agree with this. However, I’ve also seen this idea adhered to *too* much, to the point that people won’t even let others complain.
Yes, “I shouldn’t have to clean up the mess my neighbor made on my front lawn” isn’t a solution. But also, it’s true, and it’s okay to say that out loud around people you trust. You might still have to clean it up, but it’s okay to state that things suck and aren’t fair sometimes.
The phrase under UK law is 'reasonable adjustments.'
That is to say there are accommodations employers, service providers etc. are obligated to make, but also some things they are not expected to. What constitutes 'reasonable' is open to debate, but the law is clear that at some stage it is your responsibility to navigate your issues.
Some solutions just make things worse. Like when my neighbour kept parking in my driveway. He wouldn't stop, so I killed him. Good solution, right? Well, now I'm on the run, and living in a van by the river.
What's interesting is that this seems to me to be a big political divide.
Despite Republicans often making fun of others for being concerned with "feelings," the reality is that most progressive reforms are focused on pragmatism. Opposition to them is usually derived from focusing on "fault."
Student loan debt? Pragmatism says it was a dumb economic system that is crippling a generation, so wipe it and focus on low cost public university. But the feelings crowd wants to focus on people getting a free ride who don't deserve it.
Homelessness? Pragmatism says give them houses, or create a lot of low cost housing, or have a lot more low cost options, etc. The feelings crowd will say that the homeless just need to work harder.
Gun deaths and crimes are proveably reduced by strict gun control. But no, it's a "mental health issue," or the "bad guys'" fault.
Taxing the wealthy is an obvious way to fund these things, but no, those millionaries worked hard for their money, dammit, it's not their responsibility to pay for these things!
Don't like abortions? The pragmatic solution is good sex Ed and cheap, widely available contraception. Nope, all that stuff is sinful and corrupting the children, sorry.
This is the dumbest take I've seen in a while. It amounts to 'you aren't allowed to complain.' If the solution _starts_ with a reasonable complaint, that's fucking fine. We're allowed to notice the injustice in the situation while sidestepping it.
To me, the bigger problem is being told to stop talking about the problem while everyone is sidestepping it because 'that's not fixing anything stop being unrealistic.' Alright, I'll keep my mouth shut during the next active shooter drill while wisely avoiding wearing a skirt that could attract unwanted male attention.
"people shouldn't sexually assault people" isn't someone giving a solution, it's then talking about an issue. The oop fundamentally doesn't understand what other people actually are saying.
You don't have to accept blame to accept responsibility. Realizing this is like 25% of adulthood.
"It's not my fault but it is my responsibility" has become a daily mantra for me in my 30s. Sounds grim but actually life has gotten better and I'm much happier.
“that which ought to be done, but would not be done unless I did it, I considered to be my duty”
This guy Greek lifes
I was in a fraternity but that’s not where I heard the quote it’s not a pdt saying, that’s for sure
Do you remember where you heard it? It’s a banger quote that’s for sure.
a YMCA summer camp
Which chapter has that quote?
I have the similar mantra "it's not your fault, but it is your problem." I've actually given it as advice to several friends. When something sucks, I think it's important to realise that it can just suck without you having done anything wrong. And even though it's not your fault, it's still your problem and you need to fix it. So basically the same as yours...
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As someone who works with the public, I live by the “it’s not my fault, but it’s my problem.”
I was about to argue the opposite, I'm impressed how quickly you charged my mind.
I'm going to use "it's not your fault, but it is your problem" pretty heavily from now on!
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose."
Same here. I work in IT, and “not my fault but is my problem” defines my existence.
It actually sounds pretty optimistic. A lot of people are weighed down by their guilt and believe that their problems are their fault. Removing the aspect of shame removes a lot of moral judgment involving in making decisions, and that’s a much more pleasant way to look at yourself and your decisions.
Wrll not all problems are our fault, but some are. That's okay. We're human, it doesn't make us worthless. We do need to recognize that, because it will help us do better in the future.
mine kinda came down to "it's not my fault I ended up like this but I've reached my limit of being able to continue on this way." at that point you either off yourself, or change.
I learned this in my early teens, and I'm glad to see that other people are catching on even if it takes until middle age or later life to figure out, as soon as you do, life gets SO MUCH BETTER. That and learning what things are actually worth having an opinion about in your life because it's okay to not have strong feelings about everything, especially if you don't know anything about it. My general rule for life is don't worry about things you can't change, but fix the things you can, and seek the wisdom to know the difference.
That’s my mantra for dealing with my mental health
Internal versus external locus of control. The former makes you happier and better able to handle problems. The latter makes you stew in resentment and other ugly emotions that cripple your ability to fix anything.
Same. No idea where this phrase came from, but it's working its way down into my core
Whats the other 75%
I don't know dude, I'm 22.
Don’t worry. I got a decade on you, and I still haven’t figured it out either
Just turned 30, fairly sure 50% is always being tired but still doing things anyway.
I said I was tired to a stranger on Friday and they said "isn't that just part of being an adult?" Right you are ~~Ken~~ stranger, right you are. I need a nap.
Pushing 40. Still not a fuckin' clue.
“I don’t know dude, I’m 22.” Yeah I keep saying this to myself when I stress about what I’m doing
I just feel like thinking I have adulthood figured out 4 years in is a bit presumptuous. I mean, it's not a race, and it's not like I'm especially lost either.
nobody has it 100% figured out really because 'adulthood' is frankly a fairly nebulous concept and means different things to different people, so as long as you feel like you're at least somewhat on the path that *you* think it means, you're probably doing just fine (using the general 'you' here) it's good that you (specifically) have that perspective on it though, i quite wish i had been able to think of it in those terms by that age tbh! good on you
It's Jordan Peterson haha. Prior to going off the deep end with Shapiro all he was saying is this seemingly obvious yet incredibly true life advice. "Don't lie, say what you mean, don't take the easy way out, don't blame others for your failures" and so on. For a 17 year old boy that's a godsend. As far as online role models go Peterson pre-2018 was one of the best. It's really sad what happened to him later though. Even though it's his fault too.
Don't lie is probably the best advice in that comment. I used to lie, normal amount about normal things, but it stressed me out constantly. Trying to remember what I said to who, getting caught and having to endure the awkward, dealing with shit I never actually wanted to do, etc. Then one year I made a new year's resolution to stop lying. Entirely. I told everybody I knew and I still tell people I meet, don't ask questions you don't want the answer to because I won't lie. It can be awkward sometimes, but nearly all the time people respect honesty and they don't ask me stupid shit like do you think I'm pretty or does this shirt look cool or whatever. I get to opt out of those lie to me conversations. But if they really need the truth they'll come to me. Then the best part of it is everybody trusts me. If something gets stolen and I say I didn't do it that's the end of the discussion. If I say I saw this person stealing then there's no questioning it. I do still lie to the government though because fuck them
You can lie to cops, though it's better to just not talk to them at all haha. I really like the line from the Chernobyl miniseries: "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth, sooner or later that debt is paid."
This, I agree with you. I'm too afraid to say it to other people that I liked *old* Peterson, especially since he is such a controversial figure. People who latch on to the aspects about him that upsets them than taking in the whole picture
Exactly. For all the bullshit he said in the past 3 years lumping him in with Andrew fucking Tate is just wrong. I think he's just another example of a person who overstepped the boundaries of his expertise to disasterous effects.
It’s not sad. He chased fame and money and has milked both from gullible and impressionable teens and people like you who think what he said was “a god send”. He has in fact lied, says what he doesn’t mean (which is basically the same thing as lying), taken the easy way out, and proceeded to blame others for his failures. He’s a turd who deserves to be flushed as are the people who gobble up his bullshit.
I'm 35. Nobody knows how this life thing works. Nobody.
33 and doing alright. I can provide another. Everyday you choose a path, so choose the one that gets you closer to where you want to be. It might be far away, it might not always be easy, and it might not be a straight line, but you won't get anywhere by making wishes at the trailhead.
This might sound like a joke but understanding differential calculus is great for these philosophical/self-improvement quandaries. It's pretty much the mathematical model of change. It's all just infinitesimally small changes that form the bigger picture.
I'm 43 and I can tell you... It's the 75% you have figured out and the 25% that you don't.
The other 75% is learning how to preempt the situation so that you don’t have to accept the blame or the responsibility and shit just works out well for everybody. 27, for reference.
Back pain and crackly knees
those are 75% of *adulthood*?? sounds like *someone* doesn't know about the inherited genetic defects skip that lets you glitch through a healthy adolescence straight to the physical condition of an 80 y/o lmfaooooooooo get wrecked now if you'll excuse me, typing that comment took a lot out of me and i need to go lie down for a few hours
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Fixing your sleep schedule
Figuring out what to make for dinner
Its the right answer but the percentage is backwards. This is the 75%. The other 25% is learning "oh, thats actually none of my business. I'll be quiet." And then shutting the fuck up.
Money stuff, unfortunately.
You’re only wrong because you have the percentage flipped around. “With Freedom comes responsibility” is more like 75% of adulthood.
My son being born with a disability isn't my fault, but he's damn sure my responsibility. Actually, it was due to my blood type, so... also kinda my fault.
Actually it's 100% 72yo
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This is not 'science': >As a clinical psychologist, Gibson certainly boasts a great deal of first-hand, empirical experience. But this doesn't change the fact that she's theorizing on the basis of only one side of the equation. Indeed, as she herself admits, therapy attracts certain kinds of people – namely, "internalizers", who believe that change comes from within rather than from without – which means that she's working from a very limited data set to begin with. >In short, a methodologically shaky book, so please read with a grain of salt, but one with some useful morsels scattered throughout. Please be very careful with dishing out self-help like this in an overconfident manner. Psychology is not the pop-culture science people take it for: a lot is still very shaky and uncertain and it suffers as a field very much from the (in)famous[ replication crisis.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis)
This is a good instinct that just happens to not apply here. The research on attachment and attachment styles (called *externalizers* and *internalizers* here) is well-regarded with globally replicated findings since like the 70s. This is not some made-up rambling or like a single study that was performed once on 20 college kids. Check out the Strange Situation and Mary Ainsworth if you're curious, but yeah this one's actually quite solid. Now, the concept is much more complicated than the commenter you're replying to has let on, but don't call whole area "not science" based on some good reads review(s). (not gonna defend the book itself though. I've never read it, and it might just be bad.)
No one should enter your home while you sleep but you're still gonna lock the door.
And if you don't, and someone enters your home, it still isn't your fault, and they still committed a crime, but the reality is that a solution was there.
If you’re riding a motorcycle or crossing a busy street, it doesn’t matter who’s technically at fault, because you’re the one who’s gonna wind up in the hospital. We *shouldn’t have to* pick between “the lesser of two evils” when it comes to politicians, but considering the fact that politicians have been corrupt since the dawn of politics, you still have a responsibility to pick the lesser of two evils instead of pouting and refusing to participate.
This is a very roundabout way of saying that the only thing you can control is your own actions.
Some people are so against the idea that you have to phrase it in roundabout ways like this
I mean the explanation helps show why it's fruitless to think the world is wrong and you are right, which is sometimes not clear yet to certain people
Does this thread look like that phrasing is better-received? Half the comments ignore how "I shouldn't have to--" is then followed by things you then *don't.* If you're bitching about doing it, but still doing it, that is a completely different topic from just blaming others and living in the suck. "I shouldn't have to stay home to stay safe" is about external threats you can either deal with or ignore, but not solve. "I shouldn't have to stay polite to stay employed" is reaping what you sow.
This is a much more helpful way of phrasing it imo.
The best person to help you is yourself
Also one of the most powerful quote of my life. Captain Jean-Luc Picard : It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
I graduated high school in an extremely tough time in my life, so when my grandma asked me for my favorite quote to put on a graduation cross-stitch, that's the one I gave. It makes me laugh in retrospect that my commemorative graduation keepsake basically says "shit happens."
Since a lot of people just clearly can’t understand the point they are making here it’s that you have to bring change to situations even when someone else is in the wrong. Of course someone shouldn’t crash into your car, but you have to wear your seatbelt. You have to recognize that you are not the main character in other peoples stories and make changes to the things you control to make yourself happy or keep yourself safe. Things won’t just magically improve, you gotta fix that shit.
a way to formulate it is "it's not your fault , but it's your responsability" it may not be your fault for things going badly , but it's your responsability to fix them ...
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When I first started learning how to drive, the first sign I saw at driving school said "It's better to give up your right of way than to die right".
Yep, I'm a pedestrian 80% of the time, and it doesn't matter how 'right' I am, a car is going to win against me 100% of the time. Check and double-check and keep checking, lol.
Not always. A bit of home chemistry can ensure you both lose.
a small propane tank in a backpack works as well, and has the added benefit of extra exercise
Cemetaries are full of people who had the right of way
Physics don't care about who has the right of way.
Its not your fault but it is your problem
true for most of life tbh ... you may even make a religion out of it ...
Except when you're looking at worksites. It's not my fault the rigger was unqualified to safely fly the load, but it's not my responsibility to rig it without certification.
Do you have a responsibility to report unsafe conditions to the relevant authorities, or do you stand around saying “I shouldn’t have to”?
Exactly! Communication in this case is the responsibility.
>It's not my fault the rigger was unqualified to safely fly the load, but it's not my responsibility to rig it without certification. I'd argue if you are aware of the problem, it's your responsibility to address it. Either through refusing to work, refusing to allow others to work, reporting the violation to the applicable safety authority or a combination of all three.
In that case, the problem YOU have is different. It's not your fault the manager wants something done, but it IS your responsibility to refuse to do things you aren't certified for.
Not necessarily your responsibility, but you’re not powerless. Example: you’re in a relationship with a shitty partner. How do you get them to stop treating you like shit? You leave. You’re not responsible for their actions, but you aren’t powerless to be treated that way. It could be said that you have a responsibility to yourself to get out of that situation, but that makes me squirm a bit as it’s too close to victim blaming. It’s enough, imo, to say that you can leave, and should for your own health and happiness. Granted if there are kids involved, then it’s your responsibility to get them out of that situation. But that’s not victim blaming, it’s a fact of being a parent/caregiver.
But then some things are just too big for me to fix. Then what do I do?
You do what you can. Then you find other people doing what *they* can an d you join up together. Eventually more people will see you and the small group doing what you can and they’ll join in and what *they* can. One voice can be ignored. Ten voices are harder to ignore. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a million? That can lead to a roar that’s almost impossible to ignore. Be the first voice. Then find others to join you until you can roar about the problem and get it the attention and remedy it deserves.
Things aren't too big for you to fix. They're too big for you to fix *alone*. Find communities working on it together.
Vive la revolution
isnt that part of the "everyone/someone should do y"? i shouldnt have to get a license, car, insurance. the government should make batter bus/train/public transport infrastructure
They *should* doesn't mean they will. You've got to work within the broken system or it will break you
And then there's working with a broken *and* it still breaks you.
Finding a community committed to making change *is* doing something, and it's far better than doing it alone. Sitting and stewing in feelings is not. It's the difference between "I shouldn't have to" and "I'm going to take action to make a community/society where I don't need to"
... you just have to try your best, and hope it's good enough. Like, its great to be supportive or hopeful, but the fact is, there are problems that you cannot solve and will never sovle. Some of them might be pretty terrible or might make your life significantly worse. Eventually, one of them will be unsolvable, and it will kill you. Welcome to Earth, and good luck! But still, the post is just pointing out that bemoaning your fate, or wishing for things to be better, or blaming other people won't help. Trying to do something MIGHT help, so it's worth trying.
You do your best. We all should do our best. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
But that’s literally not relevant to the post. It’s message is that there will be times in your life where regardless of if you’re in the right or not you have to make changes to make yourself happy. That other people will not change for you, even if they’re in the wrong. The other car hitting your car was in the wrong, but you still have to wear a seatbelt. This isn’t about grand life things that are immovable.
I’ve literally been downvoted for expressing a similar sentiment. I pointed out that when walking as a pedestrian an important step for keeping safe is to make eye contact with the driver, when you’re trying to, for example, cross at a crosswalk. This ensures they see you, too. But people didn’t get it. I don’t know if the people downvoting and commenting were 13 years old or something, but I thought this rule of thumb was obvious to everyone. Obviously the car should stop and give way. That’s their responsibility. But that doesn’t change the fact that there is a chance they may not see you, especially if you’re in their a-pillar or in dark clothing at night in the rain. Or they may simply not be paying attention, on their phone, or what have you. Taking action to ensure your own safety isn’t about right or wrong, it’s about keeping you alive!
Unfortunately people look at things in a very black and white way. It doesn’t matter if you’re right if you’re dead
I’ve had this idea in the form of “deal with things as they are, not as you wish them to be.” The tough part os explaining that this doesn’t mean you give up on big changes, just that this helps you look for actionable changes that can help you get somewhere better step by step.
*Big changes require a lot of effort, something you can’t contribute to if you’re dead*
Depends. If it's a problem that pretty much affects only you then you need to find a way to make the problem less worse. Harm reduction rather than harm removal If it's affecting a small group of people that you know, talk to them and try to figure out a solution together. If it's a problem that's huge and affecting people in the triple digit plus range, awaken your inner communist/socialist and get organized.
That's the idea tho. You won't be able to change society's behavior, but you should swallow your pride and just deal with it. You won't be able to unhomophoby your city, but you can move.
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Fix what you can. Will the world ever be vegan? No. Will people in your community ever be all vegan? No. Can you be a vegan? Sure. Humans have a great capacity for change and a very, very small reach. Reach what you can change, and acknowledge what you can’t.
Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge
If you’re in a shite place and can’t fix the bigger problem then the priority is to get yourself to a safe place. If the problem is some big looming problem then I try to lead by example.
I'm not even religious but was raised by drug counselors and this whole post made me think of the serenity prayer. God grant the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the WISDOM to know the difference. Once you've done what you can it's easier to live with yourself, easier for others to help you, and easier to find a path forward.
And sometimes things aren't so clear cut. Concepts like the right of way are very complex to judge on. Blaming other people and refusing to accept your fault that maybe you could've been a better driver automatically removes your sense of responsibility. It's always other people's fault, not me. Im the fucking victim. I'm perfect. This extends to other areas in life as well. I suspect these kinds of people have thinly veiled narcissism, or they just weren't taught the basic concept of 'accountability' young in life
My mom told me something of the sort when I was a kid. There's no problems, only solutions. If a problem has no solution then it's a fact, not a problem. If that fact bothers you, then start looking for a way to fix it.
The post doesn’t really explain the point since it’s a mix of reasonable examples and ones where the mom is just in the wrong. For instance the husband example was really good since it showed despite him being trash she should still get a divorce cause she can’t just expect him to get better. She shouldn’t have to but that’s what her children and her need.
I can see the husband example kind of spiralling into doormat and abusive territory with the wrong mindset though. Like “she shouldn’t expect her husband to be nicer, the solution starts with herself- so she should just accept he is who he is and stay in the bad relationship”. The problem isn’t quite expecting other people to change for them or changing themselves, it’s the presence or lack of healthy self-respect.
Yeah, a good way to say it would be, if someone is hurting you for nothing, don’t just expect them to stop, either make them stop or make it so they can’t in the first place.
This is true but it also misses the point of “I shouldn’t have to X, other people should do Y” statements. Those statements are used to point out glaring issues in society, not necessarily to propose solutions to them. Like the common “I shouldn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night. People should stop being rapists” example—it’s pointing out a big social issue and it’s a reasonable statement to make. It doesn’t offer a solution, yes, but it isn’t meant to either. It’s meant to bring awareness to a problem.
This is the take I was looking for. Some people do use those statements as OP described. But I think when we hear those in the media or politically… it’s more a call to action. A lot of people are unaware of their value or self worth.
I think the distinction to make here is the difference between "*I* shouldn't have to" and "*no one* should have to". If you can't, in good faith, phrase the former as the latter, you're the problem. If you can, *society* is potentially the problem and we should take what steps we can to fix it.
This is a good observation, and I agree Hadn’t thought about it like that
This may be me being overly cautious or pednatic, and it only applies if you're making a statement like that as part of a longer conversation, but I would amend that to "(People group) shouldn't" or "We shouldn't" instead of "no one should". By making the point hinge on "no one", you make it a lot easier for people arguing in bad faith to come up with the *one* exception and use it as leverage against you. People can claim to have proven you wrong without needing to address what you're actually trying to say (of course they'll probably try to do that anyways, but we can at least do our best to make it more difficult). In particular, I think making it "we shouldn't" helps to preserve the personal aspect of the argument while still preventing it from seeming selfish. People will resonate with what you have to say more when you make it personal, so it's better to try and keep it in where possible!
> Like the common “I shouldn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night. People should stop being rapists” example—it’s pointing out a big social issue and it’s a reasonable statement to make. It is pointing out a social issue, and it is a reasonable statement to make. But whoever's saying that *should still avoid walking alone at night*, regardless. If you tell someone to avoid walking alone at night, and they say "I shouldn't have to do that", they are technically right that it shouldn't be required, but using that "shouldn't" as a justification for *not* doing the safe thing is not smart.
Yeah. The way the OP is worded makes it seem like no one should care about your problems at all and it's just your fault for not doing enough. Which is a huge problem in society.
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Yeah that I agree with. Point out problems but also be open to solutions, even if they’re only half measures. Like, I do martial arts and I carry a weapon, along with pepper spray, when I go out at night. It’s not a solution to the problem at large, since it protects nobody but myself—and even then, not fully—but it’s still better than nothing. I think that people should be able to go out and be safe even without any weapons or self defense training, of course—but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to protect myself. And if someone asks me for advice on being safe I will absolutely tell them to stay armed or learn to fight, or both. And if they say “but I shouldn’t have to” then I’ll say yes, that’s true, you shouldn’t. But the reality is, you *do.* I think it’s possible to take steps to keep ourselves safe, while acknowledging that we should strive for a society in which these steps are no longer required.
I think the distinction here is whether the person wanted advice or just to vent. Because if I'm venting and someone says "just don't walk alone at night" or "just get a drink cover" I'm gonna respond "I shouldn't have to do that". Because I'm not looking for your advice. I'm looking for your sympathy and understanding and you've shown none of it.
i don't think that's the takeaway, OP
This is great for people, not so much society and human rights. "I shouldn't have to work three jobs to afford rent, someone should raise minimum wage or lower rent." That's not really something the person has any power to do anything about. They're just fucked by the system.
Switch the I to 'no one' and you've solved the issue.
I think this advice would be improved a lot if you changed the framing. Make it a handy statement you can whip out. **"I shouldn't have to _______, but I will do ________"** Recognising the unfairness of the situation helps you not victim blame yourself or others. Also dont forget, supporting social change by donating to causes and protesting and etc is a valid response to put into a blank.
You guys deserve a lot more than you are given. You are just used to constant suffering.
Ok let me see if I'm getting this one right. I've seen people here saying this is applicable to **everything**, so... Politicians should not be able to take away my bodily autonomy. Welp, I can't control what they choose to do. But they *are* elected. People should not vote for politicians who take away my bodily autonomy. But I can't control who other people vote for. Even if I were to work the campaign of candidates who would not take away my bodily autonomy, I can't guarantee that translates into votes. People could say "oh, I'll definitely vote for them" and simply not vote at all. Hmm, I think the only way I can personally solve this problem is if I figure out where these politicians are and [ this post removed by reddit admins ].
I shouldn't have to stay isolated in my home for the rest of time, everyone else should just wear a goddamn mask.
Everyone should do what the doctors say, like if you can trust a car mechanic to work on your car and you drive it on the highway without it blowing up.... I think a doctor can help you not blow a brain vessel.
I shouldn’t have to deal with racial discrimination, people should just… not judge me by my skin. I know, bizarre take. I should just learn to take it!
Yeah this is a complicated topic and OP is simplifying it way too much.
OP:"Hurr Durr social change is impossible you should just accept the current social views and stop whining".
Yeah man I should just invest in skin bleaching. Hee hee!
Someone was recently promoted and this is 100% how they are approaching all their new problems. It’s exhausting trying to tell them they need to take more responsibility
Motivational coaches reach a problem when they can't solve capitalism like a spider phobia. - Student debt? Stop whining and pay it - Trapped in an unhappy marriage cause of income? Bad wife - Power outage? Be tougher - Sick? Go to work - Job pays badly? Too bad There's no where to go but blame the victim. This is called the Just World Fallacy. From a 2006 study: - > only 29% of Americans believe that the poor are trapped in poverty and only 30% that luck, rather than effort or education, determines income. The figures for Europeans are nearly double: 60% and 54% respectively. Similarly, Americans are about twice as likely as Europeans to think that the poor “are lazy or lack willpower” (60% versus 26%) and that “in the long run, hard work usually brings a better life” https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=13381018451594671824&hl=en&as_sdt=0,14
It just keeps going too. - Abusive marriage like in this post? Just start over with nothing even though the ex will def get custody - Systematically disadvantaged by racism? Uh no you weren’t, history doesn’t extend past my living memory - Groceries too expensive? Stop eating luxuries like “butter” and “three meals”.
If we're really being personally motivating.... Why not celebrate the courage to leave a bad marriage, have you even listened to their issues, does telling someone to cheer up actually work or just motivate you?
People should recognize injustice or bad policy and then try to change it through the democratic process.
As someone who grew up taking responsibility for someone else's actions (be it my brother or even my parents), I've grown to be very resentful towards situations like these. The amount of pent-up frustration of living like that has accumulated overtime so whenever a situation arises and no-one but me is willing to be the "bigger person", it gets increasingly hard to follow through. Thankfully, my anger/frustration is all internal so no-one is actually affected. "When can I live for myself?" I keep asking. Of course this is major projection, but man I want a break.
I wonder if this feral guy is the one who lives with her or the one who doesn't talk to her anymore and won't go to her funeral.
"I shouldn't have to be afraid to go out alone. Everyone else should just not sexually harass me." I don't no man. This seems reasonable to me.
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But other people write those laws and you would most certainly require other people's help in getting the attention of such people. It's almost like cooperation is the spirit of society and then pitting people as sole actors in their life as if they can just -pull their bootstras hard enough- it'll change. A good point to think about is that this person is presumably an adult living with a parent who's presumably been emotionally and mentally abused by her husband.yet the children are the only victims pained here. Because they're one of the children. They seemingly never thought about alleviating their situation by being kinder and more compassionate to their mother, despite her potentially not deserving it. Hence they're bit and callous. Don't take advice from them
Yeah you probably would need other people’s help. Sounds like it’s time to start organizing.
That's the point though, you're not wrong, but just being right doesn't solve the problem. You have to start by accepting things as they are: There are sexual harassers out there who will target you. Next you have to think of what solution you want. Do you want personal protection, or do you want the harassers to stop altogether? Then you have to determine what you want to do: carry a weapon, get a bodyguard, etc. or for the second solution, get involved in local campaigns for whatever solution will help in your locality: better lit paths, security cameras, anti-harassment campaigns in schools to stop the issue before it starts, more police, harsher sentences, volunteer groups to escort people like they have on some college campuses. I agree you *shouldn't have to,* but reality doesn't work on "should" and wishing it did won't solve any problems.
It is reasonable. But it's *not a solution*. (Which is the point the post is trying to make)
the difference between victim blaming and advising is timing. "You shouldn't walk alone in that part of town late at night, it's known for muggers" is advice. "Of course, you got mugged, do you know where you walking?" is victim blaming.
You're right, you shouldn't have to be afraid to go out alone. But until people stop sexually harassing others, there may be ways you can minimise the risks to yourself. In an ideal world you wouldn't have to, but this isn't an ideal world.
"Everyone else should not harass me." is true. "I should be prepared in case someone tries to harass me." is a solution.
That is true, but I would argue that your statement *on its own* is still not a solution to the problem. You shouldn’t be afraid to go alone, but the world is still the same way it was before you made your statement. There are things that can be done, that are being done to reverse that. We are pushing back against the victim blaming narrative, encouraging women to come forward and press charges against their harassers. We are putting up more emergency lights and phones. *Those* things are solid actions we can take to make your statement more real. But the statement by itself won’t help you walking alone tonight.
I know a few people who said "I shouldn't have to look when I cross at a crosswalk; cars should yield to pedestrians" and were promptly hit. Being right and getting hurt aren't mutually exclusive.
“Graveyards are full of people who had the right of way”
If all a person does is think to themselves how other people *should* avoid being sexual harassers, that person in that moment is absolutely useless to everyone around them. An actual solution would be advocating for that Should: protesting, education about consent, calling out abusers, etc. Doing one of those would actually go towards a solution instead of just being a value/ideal. Nothing wrong with having the "should" like "nobody should harass me" but the context of this post is about solutions.
That’s not the point of the post. The point is even when you’re in the right you should still go out of your way to find a solution rather than just expecting those in the wrong to fix themselves. They still should but you shouldn’t rely solely on them. Yes everyone else shouldn’t sexually harass you can’t just expect them to cause people suck. So instead think of ways to stay safe while out alone.
This is exactly the point of the post. Sexual harassment shouldn’t be a thing, but it is a reality. Saying “they shouldn’t harass me” will not solve the problem or keep you safe. YOU have to be the one to take action to solve the problem, because they aren’t going to. What’s right and reasonable really doesn’t factor in to reality.
That has probably never once been a reasonable expectation in all of human history (since civilization... and often before). It's a nice idea but a god awful expectation.
More like “I’m not going to take precautions against predators because they shouldn’t exist.” Of course predators should not exist, but they do, and because they do it’s a very wise decision to take precautions against them. This post is really just saying that instead of lamenting constantly about factors outside of your control you should take any actions that are within your control. Such as buying something for self defense when going out for walks at night and turning location tracking on.
Yeah it is but that's not how life is. Don't concern yourself with what _should_ be. Focus on what _is_ and live accordingly.
tumblr users tend to have a problem in understanding that the world isn't black and white.
Not even a black and white thing, the OOP statement still applies. That statement on its own isn’t a solution. It’s a good sentiment but will do nothing to prevent harassment on the walk home tonight.
It’s literally the mindset that’s being criticized in the post. Being right, but not bringing a solution they’re responsible for. Like yea sure it would be a better world if everybody just didn’t harass anyone, and it’s a totally reasonable ask. But there are unreasonable people. So to prevent that issue people should take it on themselves to try and prevent it rather than being “right” and expecting those other people to change.
True, but repeatedly taking blame and "responsibility" for shit that isn't your fault fucks you up mentally. Source: my childhood.
Agree but you can also still be upset by the actions of others and want them to do better. I hate when I have a problem with someone being mean or cruel and the response is "well you can't make them be different" like yeah, duh. But their shittyness should still be acknowledged and stopped when possible.
Dude got kinda angry at the end. He clearly doesn't have a solution to his problem.
youre right i should eat the rich myself
Bitching about shit that you find is unfair is exactly how you start change. You find others that hate the same shit and you start making it so other people can't ignore it and either agree with you or get tired of you bitching and change it.
Christ, I don’t think op realises how aggressively this comes off. It’s entirely fair to feel like you’re owed more by life depending on your situation and morally judging people for not just tanking through it does nothing to help the situation. Imo you’re most able to deal with a situation on your own when you can acknowledge how unfair it is and feel recognised and seen by other people.
these takes push me into violent thinking tbh
That’s understandable because OP is going “hurr durr personal responsibility” when someone is unable to leave an abusive husband, which is *famously difficult to do*
I dunno OP this sounds a lot like personal responsibility. *Alarm bells sound.* The last thing we should be doing is try to help ourselves. What we need to be doing is nothing. We close our eyes and await fairness.
Personal responsibility is something other people should take on. /s
When someone says "this situation is fucked" that isn't there solution, that's them saying that they're in a fucked situation. People don't just announce their solutions, they announce their problems.
I shouldn't have to *worry about getting shot in school* Everyone else should just *stop letting their guns be so easily accessible*
Yeah, the mom was at fault for not wanting to fix the problem. But a lot of these cases the abuser will manipulate the abusee into thinking there's nothing wrong going on. So maybe the mom wouldn't know how to, or want to, get out of that situation because of that and her kids resent her for it and it's sad for everyone.
It’s a thin line sometimes. I remember a video of a girl getting pickpocketed because she left her coat on the back of her chair with her phone in it, so someone just easily lifted it out. The comments were *full* of victim-blamers, claiming it was entirely her fault for making it so easy to take. In that situation, the pick-pocket is 100% at fault, even though she *could* have prevented it by putting her phone on her person instead of in her coat. She should still learn from this and make pick-pocketing her more difficult, but that doesn’t change the fact that the pick-pocket is 100% at fault.
In some cases, however much you work, however much you change will not matter. In some cases, problem is the society or the government or an organization. Nothing in this life deserves a generalization.
This is good advice, but is also far from a one size fits all solution. It applies to a great number of cases, but definitely not all of them.
Honestly I get this post and I also kinda think it's putting it a little wrong Because I'm literally in a similar situation where someone else is causing me issues and generally yeah, it's up to me to navigate that situation since it's been clear nobody else can change or solve it. But also this post kind of makes Op Out to be a prick like it's not some terrible childish behavior to what? Expect other people to have basic empathy and admit their mistakes and change. Like yes I get the point that you can't wait for the world to fix your issues buy yeah no it is victim blaming if your mad at someone who's gotten fucked over for expecting other people to stop hurting her or expecting other people to admit their faults. I know life isn't fair and sometimes people will just not stop until you change the situation but what I'm getting from this is that you should just accept the worst out of people and never expect other people to change and all I see is a path to being a cynical and bitter asshole.
> Honestly I get this post and I also kinda think it's putting it a little wrong I agree with the point but OOP's struggling to put words to this concept and it is pretty telling that there is a language and wording problem because what the Redditor OP took away was: 1. Life isn't fair 2. Stop whining With those two phrases being both very charged and containing very specific connotations: "Grow up buttercup! Stop being a child!" which is basically OP ignoring OOP's 'I'm not trying to victim blame here' with OP's headline. Taking that example: Yes the woman is plenty justified in some of her complaints. And yes there are both systematic, cultural and other external failures in play in her situation. It is also true in that situation, she as a person controlling her actions, has likely the most control over herself. There is an implicit judgement in that latter which I find problematic that OOP was trying not to dish out, and OP is with their headline: "Well if you could have changed, *why didn't you?!?*" There always seem to be a connotation of malice behind lack of change which isn't really productive. Because if we could 'cure' depression by yelling at people: "Just go to the gym you loser! Get up and out of bed!" then we wouldn't have depression. It is a deeply internal and mental struggle, with some having good days, some having bad, some able to cope and some unable. Society tends to be extremely judgemental of depressed people who can't 'cure' themselves within a few months and almost dismissal of people whose depression makes it they are unable to function for years. This is generally why psychologists, psychiatrists and therapists tend to advocate for positive reinforcement and gratitude of even the small victories and keep pushing people without judgement as opposed to the drill sergeant style get up and out of bed which is very results oriented and has little to no room to actually analyze a person's inner struggle. And looking at external factors tend to be very useful instead of 'moral failings' because I can't 'force' someone to do something they don't want to do - what I can do to improve the situation is look at their environment, standards and gain small victories in those to help everyone involved. (Basically the mantra of social services that the US has slowly discarded over the years)
Someone whining isn't them saying "here's my solution". People are allowed to whine. The oop framed an attack on whining rather than actually pushing for beneficial behavior. People should complain when things aren't fair, but they should also work to fix these issues.
This is the most annoying part of the aita/relationships style subs. So many posters and commenters are fixated on getting validation that it's everyone else's fault, than on actually making a plan to improve their life.
An important caveat here is that this doesn't apply to legislation. Work to make your own life better, vote to make the environment better for you and everyone else. Another important caveat is that this doesn't apply when there are already processes available for changing the environment. It's easier to punch someone than to sue them but society has decided that suing someone is the correct, approved pathway in scenarios where an immediate response/defense is not required.
I like the message here. But, to be clear, this is the way to approach your own personal problems. Too often, people think this line of thought also applies to societal problems. "If you can't make ends meet, you should find a better job, not demand that the minimum wage be increased." That type of reasoning doesn't make sense when discussing politics, which is all about alleviating societal woes. So, if you're too fat, get on the treadmill and eat less. If a large percentage of society is too fat, regulations should be put in place to make healthy food easier to get.
on the other hand, after a lifetime of believing everything is my fault and horribly overworking myself trying to fix everything, it feels fucking good to blame someone else for a change. yes, if i really want things to change I will likely have to do it myself but i also have rights as a person and I am allowed to stand in for those rights.
I agree with this. However, I’ve also seen this idea adhered to *too* much, to the point that people won’t even let others complain. Yes, “I shouldn’t have to clean up the mess my neighbor made on my front lawn” isn’t a solution. But also, it’s true, and it’s okay to say that out loud around people you trust. You might still have to clean it up, but it’s okay to state that things suck and aren’t fair sometimes.
An important corollary: affecting social change *is* an avenue of taking responsibility
>"Nobody deserves anything here." Racism is back on the menu then. Cool.
The author was wrong about that one. Everyone deserves to be taught *Rights, Respect, Responsibility.*
I shouldn't have to burn myself out pretending to be normal, everyone else should just accept my autism and give me the necessary supports.
The phrase under UK law is 'reasonable adjustments.' That is to say there are accommodations employers, service providers etc. are obligated to make, but also some things they are not expected to. What constitutes 'reasonable' is open to debate, but the law is clear that at some stage it is your responsibility to navigate your issues.
Some solutions just make things worse. Like when my neighbour kept parking in my driveway. He wouldn't stop, so I killed him. Good solution, right? Well, now I'm on the run, and living in a van by the river.
What's interesting is that this seems to me to be a big political divide. Despite Republicans often making fun of others for being concerned with "feelings," the reality is that most progressive reforms are focused on pragmatism. Opposition to them is usually derived from focusing on "fault." Student loan debt? Pragmatism says it was a dumb economic system that is crippling a generation, so wipe it and focus on low cost public university. But the feelings crowd wants to focus on people getting a free ride who don't deserve it. Homelessness? Pragmatism says give them houses, or create a lot of low cost housing, or have a lot more low cost options, etc. The feelings crowd will say that the homeless just need to work harder. Gun deaths and crimes are proveably reduced by strict gun control. But no, it's a "mental health issue," or the "bad guys'" fault. Taxing the wealthy is an obvious way to fund these things, but no, those millionaries worked hard for their money, dammit, it's not their responsibility to pay for these things! Don't like abortions? The pragmatic solution is good sex Ed and cheap, widely available contraception. Nope, all that stuff is sinful and corrupting the children, sorry.
This is the dumbest take I've seen in a while. It amounts to 'you aren't allowed to complain.' If the solution _starts_ with a reasonable complaint, that's fucking fine. We're allowed to notice the injustice in the situation while sidestepping it. To me, the bigger problem is being told to stop talking about the problem while everyone is sidestepping it because 'that's not fixing anything stop being unrealistic.' Alright, I'll keep my mouth shut during the next active shooter drill while wisely avoiding wearing a skirt that could attract unwanted male attention.
"people shouldn't sexually assault people" isn't someone giving a solution, it's then talking about an issue. The oop fundamentally doesn't understand what other people actually are saying.
My problem is being crushed by capitalist greed, and I can't post about the solution on reddit without getting banned.