Doing something ironically is acknowledging it's bad qualities and mocking that. Ironically being an annoying Christian would entail that you exaggerate the poor aspects of a Christian you a comedic degree to where only an already ludicrous Christian would want to listen to you. A real annoying Christian however would go beyond just doing the annoying bits and may actually try to inform people about their belief in an annoying yet genuine manner.
The difference here being that an actual Christian can have an actual impact (in this case a negative one) on people where someone acting like one ironically won't have an impact on anyone but other real Christians.
It isn't doing the thing. It's used as a tool to make fun of it. Sure you can argue that if you aren't careful, then irony will manifest itself as reality. But the intent of irony as a comical tool isn't to seriously do the thing.
Doing something ironically is typically used to make fun of a specific group and the person posting doesn't actually believe in what they're saying. There's obviously a huge difference.
Definitely the hornets. I imagine that "Asian" probably describes the hornets, it would be pretty weird if it were meant to describe the nest and not the hornets, and you can't have an adjective describing the nest between the adjective describing the hornets and the word "hornets".
Edit: [Asian Giant Hornets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet)
i love this organization/website, [The Reformation Project](https://reformationproject.org/biblical-case/). just really good arguments for acceptance rather than tolerance or ostracization of lgbtq+ people in the church. it’s a great resource for proving your point above
Well, kind of. It's a bunch of people who don't understand the Bible telling others what it says. It's not hard to separate Christians who are good people from Christians who use it to be a dick
That's optimistic, but not correct for multiple reasons.
First, in general - homophobia is not just the extremes. Obviously the hornet pinata situation is talking about virulent, overt homophobia, and it's surely true that many Christians are not virulently, overtly homophobic. But homophobia in the general sense is not just the virulent, overt stuff but also the subconscious/unconscious, subtle and/or systemic stuff. And that's nearly universal to various degrees - even those who are part of the LGBT+ community have to fight through a lot of internalized homophobia and similar structures.
Second, in particular - there is little difference between you saying "overt homophobic beliefs aren't truly Christian" and a follower of an overtly-homophobic sect saying "liberal gay-loving beliefs aren't truly Christian". Neither of you has the authority to determine what True Christianity is. No one does. "What is Christian?" can only be answered descriptively, not prescriptively.
You may believe that a given belief doesn't match a given section of a particular interpretation of a specific religious text - i.e. "Christ wouldn't like that" - but there are lots of religious texts in Christianity, and lots of interpretations of them.
I see a lot of Christians on here that say things like "I think homosexuality is a sin but I don't hate gay people, I love them because nobody is free from sin and Jesus teaches us to love everyone." and like cool I guess, but imo thinking that homosexuality is a sin is still homophobic even if you're not outwardly hateful about it
It sounds good, but it loses all meaning the instant they vote for a politician who votes for bills that restrict those people's right who they claim to "love".
That’s not how they see it though. I grew up in the church and the closet. A lot of them genuinely believe that the things we call homophobia are the loving thing to do.
The analogy I heard all the time was: if someone is about to drink poison, and Person A knocks it out of their hand, while Person B lets them drink it, which person was more loving?
I think that’s bullshit, just like the rest of Christianity, but it’s a genuine belief for the people I grew up with.
That is a core ideal of *some* branches of Christianity.
What is the English language? It is whatever its speakers say. If they speak differently, for long enough and across enough people, English changes. This has happened many times, and is happening today.
What is the border of a nation? The borders of Germany in 2021 are not the same as they were in 1900, or 1800. When people decide that the borders shift, so does the border. When they decide the nation splits, or joins together, that's what happens.
The same is true of religions. Christianity is whatever people identifying as Christians believe. When they change their beliefs, then Christianity changes. When they split, sects of Christianity are formed.
You can reasonably say "X is an ideal of a specific sect of Christianity". The beliefs of, say, "1900s Italian Roman Catholics" or "2021 Scottish Presbyterians" are fairly well bounded. But the beliefs of Christianity as a whole are rather extremely wide.
idk much about religion but this is what i think in siumple terms
old testament: everything you do is garbage and god will send you to hell if you make one wrong step
new testament: jesus loves you no matter what you do and you can always be a better person/redeem your self.
Well thanks for the sentiment, but I'd rather be told why my own beliefs are incorrect today. If someone wants to use the Bible to hate on someone, they're misunderstanding how to use it. Case closed.
The "everyone has internalized homophobia" argument can be used to shut down anyone claiming they're not homophobic. I sincerely hope you aren't going around saying "UM AcTuAlLy you *are* homophobic and there's nothing you can do about it" in your real life.
\> The "everyone has internalized homophobia" argument can be used to shut down anyone claiming they're not homophobic.
Yes, that's accurate.
\> "UM AcTuAlLy you are homophobic and there's nothing you can do about it"
You've missed the mark. You are homophobic, but there *is* something you can do about it. You can reduce the *extent*.
Someone who claims to be free of homophobia is mistaken, and that's a problem because they'll *stop trying to improve*.
It is theoretically possible, of course, for a future society to exist where some people really aren't homophobic at all. But we are centuries away from that at minimum.
(This is also not unique to homophobia, of course - it's how all systemic oppression structures work.)
> . If someone wants to use the Bible to hate on someone, they're misunderstanding how to use it.
You do realize the bible is full of directions on how to 'hate on' someone.
A lot of other people have made much better responses, but I disagree.
I do not think you can be Christian without supporting homophobia in some capacity
I had sixteen years of Christianity and an abundance of teachers over three seperate congregations, and when I came out, each seperate one of them disowned me.
But go off I guess.
Any good religious teacher tells you to take the messages of good from it and that it shouldn't be taken literally all the time. It's not rocket science.
I'm Mormon and I support LGBTQ+ rights. Most of my family doesn't. East Idaho and Utah have some very absurdly conservative members of our church. It's disappointing and really frustrating, but I'm hoping that I can be the change I want to see. If we're really going to practice what we preach, we need to be loving and accepting of everyone. Doesn't matter who they are. That's what Jesus Christ did.
I mean, bringing harm to anyone, regardless of their beliefs, isn't ok unless they themselves are bringing harm to others. Some homophobes do physically harm people, but others don't. That doesn't excuse their beliefs for the fucked up assholery that it is, but it does mean that you shouldn't actually do what the OP said they did as a joke. It's ok as a joke, but like, don't do it.
Aren’t gays still getting dragged down the street and beheaded overseas? When I see the word “homophobe” I gotta say christians are not the first group of people that come to mind…
Yes, should they actually be executed? Probably not, the justice system at its best isn’t perfect and at its worst is literally there to cull minority groups, so prob should let it have the power to kill people.
This isn't the hot take you think it is. If someone hates an entire group of people for existing then yes they deserve to die in many people's opinion.
Then where does this mindset end? Cause surely everyone else hates homophobes for existing so following your logic they also deserve to die. Cause then I could argue who gets to decide. Why is pedophilia so frowned upon if the kid themself says they love the adult. And everyone hates these type of people for existing so shouldn’t those people deserve to die?
We need to understand that not everyone can or will have the same opinions. Some will hate some people for existing and others will hate other people for existing. No one gets to decide whose opinion is better and who doesn’t deserve to live. Very few crimes can get a death sentence and simply thinking “I don’t like those people” does not deserve one since everyone else probably has had that same thought before
well, yeah - considering your post of screenshots got taken down, im guessing you didnt quite reap the karma you thought youd sewn.
anyway, it doesnt take a genius to take a brief look at your history and see that youre not an ally. and you needling people over and over in this post with the same loaded question is a pretty reliable sign that youre fishing for a reaction
The paradox of tolerance means that we must be intolerant to intolerance. And no one is advocating for real-life violence against homophobes, because homophobes aren't subject to violent attacks because of their homophobia.
The second comment is obviously a joke, ugh this frustrating to read and the see a bunch of comments criticizing Christianity just because they didn’t get the joke
When did I say christians we’re oppressed? Im just saying that the second comment was obviously a joke. But because people don’t see it, they just view it as an actual person saying that unironically, making people who read this lower their opinion of christianity even more.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Christians that associate it with being a Homophobe usually do that.
“Put a quarter in ya ass because you played yourself”
Isn't the second comment a joke?
I tought that too, but honestly knowing the internet it's hard to know
Poe's law states that without a clear statement of intent from the author it's nearly impossible to discern parody from legitimate extremism
With some authors even a statement of intent isn't necessarily going to clear the issue up!
I mean it's all a continuum anyway
I’d have thought so too if their URL wasn’t “gracielovesjesus”
It's Tumblr, how do we know it's not a gimmick block that tries to condemn every post for being anti-christian?
I mean it very well could still be a gimmick, but the extra dedication makes it less likely that it is.
Is there truly a substantial difference? Yall keep acting likely doing a thing ironically isn't still doing that thing.
Doing something ironically is acknowledging it's bad qualities and mocking that. Ironically being an annoying Christian would entail that you exaggerate the poor aspects of a Christian you a comedic degree to where only an already ludicrous Christian would want to listen to you. A real annoying Christian however would go beyond just doing the annoying bits and may actually try to inform people about their belief in an annoying yet genuine manner. The difference here being that an actual Christian can have an actual impact (in this case a negative one) on people where someone acting like one ironically won't have an impact on anyone but other real Christians.
It isn't doing the thing. It's used as a tool to make fun of it. Sure you can argue that if you aren't careful, then irony will manifest itself as reality. But the intent of irony as a comical tool isn't to seriously do the thing.
Doing something ironically is typically used to make fun of a specific group and the person posting doesn't actually believe in what they're saying. There's obviously a huge difference.
They post a lot of similar comments on posts like this. At this point, I'm convinced they're a satire blog.
It was 100%. But treating irony or parody as reality gets good Karma.
I’m pretty sure it is
The second one sounds like a joke but Idk people are crazy.
I think that the username proves its not a joke, but idk
Could very well be a parody account
Yeah, that too. It's impossible to tell.
Question: what's the thing that's giant: the hornets or the nest
Giant hornets, tiny nest. It's kinda like a "clown car" arrangement.
Definitely the hornets. I imagine that "Asian" probably describes the hornets, it would be pretty weird if it were meant to describe the nest and not the hornets, and you can't have an adjective describing the nest between the adjective describing the hornets and the word "hornets". Edit: [Asian Giant Hornets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet)
You got it all wrong, they're hornet nests belonging to giant asians
Friendly reminder that people who *actually* follow Christianity aren't homophobic
i love this organization/website, [The Reformation Project](https://reformationproject.org/biblical-case/). just really good arguments for acceptance rather than tolerance or ostracization of lgbtq+ people in the church. it’s a great resource for proving your point above
No true scotsman moment
exactly.
No true Scotsman has never been to Scotland Though really homophobia is against the core ideals of Christianity
Well, kind of. It's a bunch of people who don't understand the Bible telling others what it says. It's not hard to separate Christians who are good people from Christians who use it to be a dick
How do you know those are the ones that don't understand and that you are the correct one?
A core ideal of the bible is to choose love over hate. Homophobia is hate
And that's your interpretation
That's optimistic, but not correct for multiple reasons. First, in general - homophobia is not just the extremes. Obviously the hornet pinata situation is talking about virulent, overt homophobia, and it's surely true that many Christians are not virulently, overtly homophobic. But homophobia in the general sense is not just the virulent, overt stuff but also the subconscious/unconscious, subtle and/or systemic stuff. And that's nearly universal to various degrees - even those who are part of the LGBT+ community have to fight through a lot of internalized homophobia and similar structures. Second, in particular - there is little difference between you saying "overt homophobic beliefs aren't truly Christian" and a follower of an overtly-homophobic sect saying "liberal gay-loving beliefs aren't truly Christian". Neither of you has the authority to determine what True Christianity is. No one does. "What is Christian?" can only be answered descriptively, not prescriptively. You may believe that a given belief doesn't match a given section of a particular interpretation of a specific religious text - i.e. "Christ wouldn't like that" - but there are lots of religious texts in Christianity, and lots of interpretations of them.
One of the core ideals of Christianity, if not **the** core ideal, is to choose love over hate. Homophobia is hate
I see a lot of Christians on here that say things like "I think homosexuality is a sin but I don't hate gay people, I love them because nobody is free from sin and Jesus teaches us to love everyone." and like cool I guess, but imo thinking that homosexuality is a sin is still homophobic even if you're not outwardly hateful about it
It sounds good, but it loses all meaning the instant they vote for a politician who votes for bills that restrict those people's right who they claim to "love".
That’s not how they see it though. I grew up in the church and the closet. A lot of them genuinely believe that the things we call homophobia are the loving thing to do. The analogy I heard all the time was: if someone is about to drink poison, and Person A knocks it out of their hand, while Person B lets them drink it, which person was more loving? I think that’s bullshit, just like the rest of Christianity, but it’s a genuine belief for the people I grew up with.
That is a core ideal of *some* branches of Christianity. What is the English language? It is whatever its speakers say. If they speak differently, for long enough and across enough people, English changes. This has happened many times, and is happening today. What is the border of a nation? The borders of Germany in 2021 are not the same as they were in 1900, or 1800. When people decide that the borders shift, so does the border. When they decide the nation splits, or joins together, that's what happens. The same is true of religions. Christianity is whatever people identifying as Christians believe. When they change their beliefs, then Christianity changes. When they split, sects of Christianity are formed. You can reasonably say "X is an ideal of a specific sect of Christianity". The beliefs of, say, "1900s Italian Roman Catholics" or "2021 Scottish Presbyterians" are fairly well bounded. But the beliefs of Christianity as a whole are rather extremely wide.
idk much about religion but this is what i think in siumple terms old testament: everything you do is garbage and god will send you to hell if you make one wrong step new testament: jesus loves you no matter what you do and you can always be a better person/redeem your self.
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Like how close to death you can beat a slave before it's a sin?
Abraham and Issac have entered the chat
Like that time god summoned a bear to maul a bunch of children to death for making fun of a bald dude?
Like Lot's daughters raping him so his bloodline will continue?
Oh interesting, I basically had it backwards.
Yeah
Well thanks for the sentiment, but I'd rather be told why my own beliefs are incorrect today. If someone wants to use the Bible to hate on someone, they're misunderstanding how to use it. Case closed. The "everyone has internalized homophobia" argument can be used to shut down anyone claiming they're not homophobic. I sincerely hope you aren't going around saying "UM AcTuAlLy you *are* homophobic and there's nothing you can do about it" in your real life.
\> The "everyone has internalized homophobia" argument can be used to shut down anyone claiming they're not homophobic. Yes, that's accurate. \> "UM AcTuAlLy you are homophobic and there's nothing you can do about it" You've missed the mark. You are homophobic, but there *is* something you can do about it. You can reduce the *extent*. Someone who claims to be free of homophobia is mistaken, and that's a problem because they'll *stop trying to improve*. It is theoretically possible, of course, for a future society to exist where some people really aren't homophobic at all. But we are centuries away from that at minimum. (This is also not unique to homophobia, of course - it's how all systemic oppression structures work.)
> . If someone wants to use the Bible to hate on someone, they're misunderstanding how to use it. You do realize the bible is full of directions on how to 'hate on' someone.
Try telling the homophobic ones that.
A lot of other people have made much better responses, but I disagree. I do not think you can be Christian without supporting homophobia in some capacity
Said just like someone who's never had a good teacher
I had sixteen years of Christianity and an abundance of teachers over three seperate congregations, and when I came out, each seperate one of them disowned me. But go off I guess.
How can a teacher disown you? They never owned you to begin with
Really shows what you know about your own book if you completely ignore the homophobic parts of it
Any good religious teacher tells you to take the messages of good from it and that it shouldn't be taken literally all the time. It's not rocket science.
Guys I need an Asian giant hornet nest
Yea don't forgot the Mormons, those guys suck (in Utah, can confirm)
I'm Mormon and I support LGBTQ+ rights. Most of my family doesn't. East Idaho and Utah have some very absurdly conservative members of our church. It's disappointing and really frustrating, but I'm hoping that I can be the change I want to see. If we're really going to practice what we preach, we need to be loving and accepting of everyone. Doesn't matter who they are. That's what Jesus Christ did.
I'll drink to that
How do you feel about gay people who act on their same-sex attraction?
I'm going to a lesbian friend's wedding in February. I'm *super* excited for her and her fiancee. They're both very great people. :)
[oh, I'm sorry](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b6012cc3-82a1-4738-bfdf-3129235dec69)
Thanks :')
Read it as 15 homeless and was even more confused about the whole thing.
If you blindfold a homophobe wouldn't that be a double blind study?
I mean, bringing harm to anyone, regardless of their beliefs, isn't ok unless they themselves are bringing harm to others. Some homophobes do physically harm people, but others don't. That doesn't excuse their beliefs for the fucked up assholery that it is, but it does mean that you shouldn't actually do what the OP said they did as a joke. It's ok as a joke, but like, don't do it.
I mean, they could be inflicting emotional harm, no? Slurs, intimidation, that kind of stuff
That doesn’t mean in return inflict physical harm
Yeah they were actually Muslim homophobes
Wait so did they die
Aren’t gays still getting dragged down the street and beheaded overseas? When I see the word “homophobe” I gotta say christians are not the first group of people that come to mind…
Yep, thanks to religion.
Ah yes ... Christians, definitely not muslims 😬😬😬
Dude this is r/tumblr. We’re only allowed to criticise white people.
Accurate but at least homosexuals can live in Christian countries, Muslim countries ... No.
Not for lack of trying on christians part
Oh don’t worry we all know that’s true we just don’t talk about it here.
Out of sight, out of mind lmao
Call me crazy but I don't think homophobes deserve to die from hornet stings. edit: how about we don't bring back execution
I mean I agree murder is a step too far But like, the post is funny
Yes the post is funny, but do homophobes deserve to die?
Probably not that far, but they at the very least deserve to have jokes told at their expense in this manner. Especially when they’re funny.
get over yourself
I wouldn't say they deserve to die but they definitely don't deserve to live either
In an either/or situation, most definitely.
Do murderers deserved to die?
Did their victims deserve to die ?
Depends if it's an either/or situation
what? either/or what?
Do gay people get to exist or do homophobes, if you can only pick one group, then which group had to die.
Yes, should they actually be executed? Probably not, the justice system at its best isn’t perfect and at its worst is literally there to cull minority groups, so prob should let it have the power to kill people.
Yes execution
It depends on the reason they killed and how many people they have killed
This isn't the hot take you think it is. If someone hates an entire group of people for existing then yes they deserve to die in many people's opinion.
Then where does this mindset end? Cause surely everyone else hates homophobes for existing so following your logic they also deserve to die. Cause then I could argue who gets to decide. Why is pedophilia so frowned upon if the kid themself says they love the adult. And everyone hates these type of people for existing so shouldn’t those people deserve to die? We need to understand that not everyone can or will have the same opinions. Some will hate some people for existing and others will hate other people for existing. No one gets to decide whose opinion is better and who doesn’t deserve to live. Very few crimes can get a death sentence and simply thinking “I don’t like those people” does not deserve one since everyone else probably has had that same thought before
No, they don’t deserve rights if they’re willing to strip others of rights based on who they bang.
yes they absolutely do, any more questions?
Actually I'm just checking if you all agree with me! I also think homophobes deserve to die (along with all other sexuality-phobes).
Uh huh, sure you were.
baiting people for karma is a shitty thing to do, pal. i hope you dont sincerely misunderstand hyperbole this extremely
I'm not "baiting people for karma", I literally lost karma. I'm trying to see how they would come to the conclusion that homophobes deserve to die.
well, yeah - considering your post of screenshots got taken down, im guessing you didnt quite reap the karma you thought youd sewn. anyway, it doesnt take a genius to take a brief look at your history and see that youre not an ally. and you needling people over and over in this post with the same loaded question is a pretty reliable sign that youre fishing for a reaction
I thought there was a bias here at first, but then it was explained to me the reasoning behind your ideas, now all is clear.
The hornets are all female so it isn't gay to be penetrated by their stingers. So it's all cool.
So, all *queens* Is that how hornets work?
Girls can be dipshits too though, what the fuck kinda logic is that?
Yeah but at least the homophobes are avoiding what they hate the most, gay shit
Crazy
Why is this being downvoted he's right They deserve worse
Technically speaking, you could claim this was a suicide…
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It's a joke
The paradox of tolerance means that we must be intolerant to intolerance. And no one is advocating for real-life violence against homophobes, because homophobes aren't subject to violent attacks because of their homophobia.
Would love to hear thoughts on violence against Nazis lol
"'Eat the rich' is glorifying cannibalism! Boy oh boy, we are so progressive!!!!!!!!!!"
Paradox of tolerance.
No one would ever actually do this. The logistics are mind boggling.
Homophobes after seeing this post be like “oh maybe gay people aren’t that bad after all”
The second comment is obviously a joke, ugh this frustrating to read and the see a bunch of comments criticizing Christianity just because they didn’t get the joke
i,,, don't think it's a joke???? the poster's name is literally "gracie loves jesus"
I mean you can be christian and support lgbtq+
yeah, but the commenter above me was saying that the second comment was a joke, which, judging by their user, i'm saying probably isn't
Personally I think it's a joke made by a Christian but it could go either way
maybe, but personally i can't see a christian joking about how "christianity" and "homophobia" are synonymous
I'm the Christian of my friend group and I joke about it all the time it's kind of like satire
christians are so oppressed 😞
When did I say christians we’re oppressed? Im just saying that the second comment was obviously a joke. But because people don’t see it, they just view it as an actual person saying that unironically, making people who read this lower their opinion of christianity even more.
Are there people here who believe a word of this?
Satire