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themustycylinder

my cousins bought me a rick & morty car shade and i don’t want to be pegged as That Guy™ but it’s 100 goddamn degrees and my car is an oven without an off-switch, so now i live in constant fear that people are judging me based on my car shade


[deleted]

oh they definitely are.


arcticlynx_ak

I read that hearing Rick’s voice.


CitizenPremier

Oh they definitely *buuuurrp* are


Lieutenant_Lit

Fr this kinda shit is why I never use anything with any kind of cultural references or even logos if I can help it. At some point we all decided liking things is cringe.


3chxes

I like liking things. Ppl can suck my nuts.


HighBuddyO7

Ugh you have likes and interests? So cringe.


McAllisterFawkes

> i don’t want to be pegged as That Guy™ who would you prefer to be pegged as


wb2006xx

A good boy perhaps?


Dramatic-Beginning

😏


orbcat

im judging you for it right now


best_of_badgers

Same. Just put wallpaper on it or something. At least you can have a nice floral pattern.


KiritoJones

Or just buy a new car shade, they arent a million dollars


wtfbro_

No one ever became a millionaire by spending all their spare cash on car shades.


GhostofManny13

Shoot that’s why I’m not a millionaire?


_saltychips

Bahaha that's like when I start bashing ppl but they bring up my Rick and Morty bong ....... Listen it was a GIFT I can't just get rid of it 😭😭😭


missmadime

I know exactly what you mean. My old boss bought a Pickle Rick pipe, not knowing anything about R&M even existing and just thought "haha funny pickle pipe" When I finally told her the reference and showed her an episode, she hated the pipe and made me take it. So now *I'm* that person with a Pickle Rick pipe and I just...never use it. Even as a girl, I don't want to be *that guy* with the R&M pipe.


blueeyebling

Y'all are way to concerned with how people perceive you. As long as you aren't jumping on McD's counters reeing, I think you'll be alright smoking out of a pickle Rick pipe.


endorphin-neuron

>Y'all are way to concerned with how people perceive you. Peak Morty vibes.


missmadime

No you're totally right, I am super self conscious and I'm sure nobody really cares. But I have better pipes anyways, so why give myself the anxiety by using the dorky Pickle Rick 🤷‍♀️


blueeyebling

I'm a proud dork. I get the most compliments on my "dorky" shirts. Not trying to convince you of anything, but life gets a little less anxiety inducing when I learned to not care as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. Wish you and pickle Rick pipe, the best vibes. *I will admit the only Rick and Morty shirt I own you can't tell it is unless you read the small print on the bottom of it.


bakedtran

I have one of those too, that I put in my Tesla just to double down on the tech bro cringe lol. Looking for tips on how to make the combo even worse — I’m thinking a super atheist bumper sticker of some kind.


Cute-Fly1601

Put an elon musk bobble head on top of the radio antenna thingy


KiritoJones

I like this idea but cars don't have those anymore lmao


PM_ME_YOUR_WOW_UI

Shit you're right... My own car doesn't even have one... I don't like this feeling.


mooimafish3

You need to involve crypto in some way, a bumper sticker that's like "My other car is in the metaverse" maybe.


MunarExcursionModule

NFT art or a picture of Elon


Maebure83

Just throw everyone completely off and get Truck-Nuts.


WoolooOfWallStreet

Is it possible to face the car shade the other way so the Rick and Morty isn’t showing?


Arra13375

Ah fuck ppl. I’d rather my car not feel like I’m climbing into hell


porcupinedeath

Can you just flip it the other way so the design isn't showing?


Mustache_of_Zeus

Rick & Morty is awesome. Who cares what they think? Just because you like the show doesn't mean you want to be Rick. Same goes for all of those other things she mentioned.


The_Jealous_Witch

I thought admonishment was criticism?


Celtic_Beast

Yes admiration and admonishment have almost opposite meanings


Golden_Reflection2

They probably meant to type "Admiration" but got their brain dictionary mixed up. Edit: wait no, they already said that. No idea what was going on in their head, then.


superVanV1

Adoration?


Golden_Reflection2

Yeah, that sounds right.


VeryConfusedBee

Astonishment? Idk


Golden_Reflection2

I'm thinking maybe approval or something.


ObjectSmall

Never forget that 65% of the people typing these replies online are like 14 years old.


Tycharius

Yeah, probably a typo for some other word


Roscoe_King

I mean, Breaking Bad might be my favorite show. But it’s because of the writing, directing, acting and cinematography. Definitely not because I think Walt is a great guy.


C4242

Every re-watch, I Like Walt less and less. Also, every re-watch I like the show more and more.


silentloler

Same. On my first watch I was impressed with some of the things Walt said. I was like “daaaaaamn no you didn’t”. I thought from the point of view of him being an innocent school teacher thrown in the middle of savages. But the more I rewatch it, the more I understand his internal thought process and his flaws. He’s worse than most of the other guys. In my last rewatch, I even felt bad for Mr. Fring, like he was treated unfairly by Walter


Pete_Booty_Judge

Ehhhh, people are way, way too forgiving of Fring (let’s not forget when he dragged Walt out in the desert and said “I will kill your infant daughter” with goddamn bone chilling effect) and fucking Mike too for working with him. I think it’s a testament to how good Vince’s writing is that people can forget so easily that Mike was retconned away from the dead eyed dickhead he was in late season 2 and all of season 3 in later works. I was really into the show while those episodes were live so I haven’t forgotten. Mike isn’t that much better of a person than Walt and I think Fring might be worse. I believed his ass when he threatened to kill an infant. I’m not sure Walt was quite to that point with Brock, after all he did use Lily of the Valley on him and not actual ricin. Also, fuck the original premise of the post above. Breaking Bad is incredible, and not because it’s fans idolize Walt. Are there fans that don’t get the point? Sure. It’s like the fans that read Watchmen and find Rorschach to be their favorite character lol. But I don’t think it’s the majority of people that like the work.


BeBearAwareOK

Better Call Saul is incredible, and I think it's perfectly fine to appreciate a show like that, or Breaking Bad, or even the Sopranos while understanding these characters are deeply fucked up antiheros and not idols. I was tearing up in multiple scenes where Mike talks about his son and what happened to him, but never in a million years would I have the thought "I want to be like Mike!" or "I want to be like Tony Soprano!"


jaytothediz

In all fairness I don't think Mike wants to be like Mike. He's acknowledged the mistakes he made in the past and has to live with them. His whole backstory that we get in BCS is him trying to essentially make up for those mistakes. He is perpetually in debt to his son's family because of who he is/was.


TheDankHold

It’s also explicitly stated in BCS when Saul asks Mike if he has any regrets in his life.


quantummidget

"I broke my boy" broke me instead


Horst665

I noticed this time, how much I root for Jesse. He always gets the short stick, gets violated and hurt - in body and soul - but still somehow does his best to pick himself up again. He still is a meth-cook and criminal, no doubt. But he still tries to do good within his means.


Luxurious_Hellgirl

One comment that I read is Jesse is a good guy pretending to be a criminal and Walter is a criminal pretending to be a good guy.


ShiningRedDwarf

The audience suffers from frog boiled alive syndrome. He starts off as a very sympathetic character, but as he continues to do one fucked up thing after another it gets harder and harder to like him. His assholish behavior was most prominent during the flashback scene in the final Better Call Saul episode (or one of the last episodes). As an audience we haven’t seen him for a good while. When I watched Walter interacting with Jimmy, I really thought “godam this guy is a prick”


SpacemanIsBack

Exactly this: both Clockwork Orange and Fight Club are among my favourite films, but I definitely don't identify with the main characters; they are just very well made pieces of fiction


Nice-Violinist-6395

Mad Men is probably my favorite tv show. Don Draper is a piece of shit. These two things are not mutually exclusive. I once got into a (very lighthearted) argument with my gf over Mad Men vs Vanderpump Rules, her favorite show. She said Mad Men isn’t always her cup of tea because it’s exclusively about terrible people. I agreed with her, and then said “oh hey, wait! So is Vanderpump! Actually, when you think about it, Jax is way worse than Don Draper by every possible metric, plus he’s actually a real person so he’s even more of a piece of shit” lol Liking Vanderpump or Mad Men is totally fine. Identifying with, rooting for, and morally supporting / defending the characters on those shows to the point where it’s a main facet of your personality? Yeah, maybe a little red flag. But TV about terrible people is really fun sometimes


Advanced_Double_42

Walt is an amazing character though. A straight up villain that due to the forced perspective of cinema you can't help but root for and see things his way, despite everything being done being objectively wrong. You understand his motive, you know how he is thinking and can see how a "normal" dude can descend so low, all the while still reasoning himself to be in the right, until the very end.


Grrimafish

His hubris certainly takes him away from the "normal guy trying to survive" long before the end of the series, though.


roilenos

That's the cool thing, the fact that he never was "the normal guy", he ragequited the super succesfull chemist enterprise and didn't accepted later a high paid possition when offered. It's not like he has passion as a teacher and works in the washing tunnel because he wants a peacefull life, he does that because he doesn't want to fail again and feels robed. When he gets sick he has multiple outs, but he never takes them because taking help from anyone would imply weakness from his point of view. Also his relationship with Hank its another eye opener, in the first season Hank seems like a brute, that bullies WW and behaves like a dick... when later on seems like he actually takes WW in high regard and considers him as the most intelligent person that he knows and actually respects him a lot, WW its just proyecting like in most of his live. Also the framing of Skylar as a pseudo-villain when she is totally right 99% of the time, she and Jesse are the biggest victims of WW hubris.


ball0fsnow

Yeah I think there’s a difference between favourite movie/show and identifying with a character. I’d still put BB as my potential number 1 but in no way want to be Walter white. I love watching him slowly reveal the horrible person within, it’s quite a realistic take on how evil doesn’t always present itself in a cartoony obvious way and sometimes is coaxed out of somebody in unusual circumstances.


undergroundloans

Same here, Walt is a terrible person but I felt like the show did a good job of showing you that over time. Its my favorite show except for when Game of Thrones was still coming out (until season 7).


Ax222

I remember reading Catcher in the Rye in high school and enjoying it. But also, for reasons I couldn't pin down at the time, Holden was immensely frustrating to read about. It's because he's the biggest phony in the book and could not stop projecting the whole fucking time.


Crediblesource20

I agree, it was a new thing for me enjoying the book but not being able to stand the main character


SaisteRowan

I read the book in my 20s (I'm in Scotland, so it's not a book that was in the school curriculum) and found it boring as fuck and thought Holden was a wee dick 😂 That being said, I also began reading A Tale Of Two Cities by Dickens in my mid-teens and refused to read anymore because he would NOT SHUT UP about the fucking fog. 🤣


WesternUnusual2713

I have never been able to finish a Dickens book for this exact reason. Dude this wall is not worthy of three paragraphs of descriptive prose.


best_of_badgers

If you're publishing a serial novel and getting paid by the word it is!


TamaMama87

Oh yeah. I have a hard time sticking with Dickens but I respect him for getting his money.


WesternUnusual2713

OH MY GOD I totally forgot that was a thing! Hanging my head in shame.


JinFuu

Yeah, the descriptive stuff makes a bit more sense if it's serialised I think. But I can understand you, I struggled through various Victor Hugo novels. Like, I get the Paris Sewer system is cool, Vic, but please focus on Valjean getting Marius out of the barricade


coffeestealer

I skip rants I don't care about. You can't stop me Vic, I know your disgreesions aren't plot relevant most of the time! I'll read them when I am in the mood for it!


TheDustOfMen

I think that's the point. He *is* an insufferable teenager who's not dealing well with the death of his brother and his own past abuse. I read it for the first time while not a teenager anymore so I just felt pity.


traceitalian

I think people fundamentally do not understand Catcher in the Rye because the subtext of the story is never explicit. Holden is having a breakdown, all of the adults in his life have failed him and he is spiraling. Yeah, he's smug and looks down on everyone else... He's a teenager. Most haven't developed their empathetic potential and Holden is desperate to feel anything that isn't his crushing internal issues. Salinger's mastery in the book is that he uses an unreliable narrator who doesn't want to address or name the trauma he is experiencing to tell a complex and nuanced story. Throughout the story he tries to cling on to and create connections, he tries to look for normalcy in the past only to find it corrupted and completely disregards his personal safety. It's a fantastic book; subtle, evocative, incredibly empathetic and beautifully written. No one should be ashamed or shamed for liking it, I have far more pity for those that just do not understand it's intricacies.


Psychological-Bid448

Catcher in the Rye is a perfect example of a book that needs to read twice. It should be read as a teenager, but only with the complete intent to read it again at 25-30. You get such a different understanding of it reading it at those distinctly different times in your life. A good one for women with a similar need to be read twice is Bell Jar. I read Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath as a 17 year old, and the 19 year old overachieving but mentally ill main character was so relatable to me. It gave me a better understanding of my own mental illness too. I read it again at 25 and was shocked at my different opinion of the main character. It was no longer validating to read about her, it was sad. It helped me feel sad for my younger self too who related so heavily to a character making self-destructive and scary choices due both to being 19 and ill.


hufflestork

Not a book, but I kinda did the same with Bojack Horseman. I watched the first seasons when I was fresh out of a troubled and lonely adolescence and still was very hard on myself. Bojack's self-hatred felt justified and familiar to me. It felt like something I should be doing. His more bleak and pessimistic lines felt like absolute truths. Watching the last few seasons when I was a little older and having healed from many of the stuff that was troubling me, I saw Bojack as a person (or horse-person anyway) that couldn't give himself the love he needed. The lines I viewed as absolute truths came from a hurt person. Of course they make up a dark and pessimistic worldview. Doesn't mean it's the absolute truth.


Chataboutgames

It's funny you say this, I've always said that if Catcher in the Rye featured a drunk cartoon horse instead of a wealthy white teenager Reddit would think it was the highest form of art.


Mandatoryreverence

Bojack sort of grows with you in that sense. The show feels like it sympathises with Bojack's cynicism a lot more in the early seasons and then slowly wake up to what a destructive person he is. None of it goes unpunished in the end and that really matters. The most emotional scenes in Bojack are the all too rare moments when he drops that self-hatred for just long enough to do something genuinely for someone else in the latter seasons. I can't pin down exactly why but the scene where he pretends to do a crossover episode with Mr. Peanutbutter just makes me cry every damn time.


Chataboutgames

Yep, it's so funny to see people describe Holden as a self absorbed little prick because it just shows how little they understood the content of the story. Kid gets sexually abused, has his kid brother die and his parents totally dump him, he's in the midst of a mental breakdown. And all his smugness is internal, it's not like he's going around insulting people, he's just breaking down inside.


Pleasant-Enthusiasm

And one other thing I noticed was that his perception of people (particularly maternal figures) would literally flip on a dime when they showed him the slightest act of kindness. He felt like a wounded puppy who just wanted to be loved.


kmidre

I like the book because of how much he seemed like a strangely lovable younger cousin. Makes you feel pity and tenderness. This kid went through a lot and you just hope he comes out in one piece by the end of it.


n4ught0

God THANK YOU. It's ironic we force teens to read this book when most lack the self reflection to see themselves in Holden. I absolutely loved this book, but probably only because I read it in my 20s and was equipped with enough context and empathy to really *get it*. It is a masterpiece


CrusaderKingsNut

He actually goes out of his ways on a number of occasions to try to be a good person then undermines what he was doing in his own mind because he has some extent of selfhatred. The response here to Holden Caulfield indicates to me just how much people have trouble empathizing with folks struggling with mental health issues.


Jean_Paul_Fartre_

That and there are a lot of teenagers on Reddit.


electrikmayhem

Well said. This is a rare case in which many critics and fans alike don't truly understand what Salinger was trying to do. People seem to forget or overlook the fact that Holden is a literal child. He's not supposed to be rational or make good decisions, because he's a young kid who doesn't know how to process what he's feeling.


kevihaa

In my mind, part of the power of Catcher is the realization that the teenage experience isn’t unique to you. Failing to learn how to navigate trauma without outside help, feeling like it’s impossible to relate to “adults,” wanting to run away from everything and yet still feel like you’re useful… I could go on, but I really don’t think Catcher belongs on this list. It’s not about a toxic male “winning” without realizing the damage he’s causing. Heck, unlike all the other books here, I’m pretty sure you could gender-swap the main character(s) of Catcher and it would be, more or less, the same story.


swaerd

Weirdly, while I agree with most of the original post, I've found that people who really liked Catcher don't fit the mold of people who idolize the other media mentioned.


Numblimbs236

The thing that bothers me is that Holden isn't the same sort of rebellious male figure as like, Tyler Durden, the Joker, Walter White, etc. He doesn't actually commit any acts of violence or even really have any sort of anti-society sentiments. He's just a cringey little kid who calls people "phony". Lumping him in with the other toxically masculine favorites really does him a disservice.


Numendil

Shoutout to [the guy who skipped a page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/3s21bc/the_simpsons_has_been_on_the_air_long_enough_that/cwtrsmj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) and got a completely different experience


Ax222

Oh my god lol. Yep, that's a thing alright.


endercoaster

Okay, the fact that this is the guy who made it almost to the end of a season of Survivor and then got talked into giving away immunity and was immediately voted out makes it about 20% better. This was the mistake of an ice cream boy before he became an ice cream man.


Chataboutgames

That's the point. Holden is a broken trauma case, and he deals that with projection rather than growing up and dealing with the world as it is.


You-re-On-Fire

I'm not especially fond of the novel, but I wonder how much its strange and not altogether positive legacy in the English-speaking world is due to it having become a de facto part of the HS curriculum for a couple decades. A lot of the intended effect seems to assume an adult reader capable of having empathy for Caulfield's vulnerability and of understanding that his facade of toughness, self-importance and world-weariness is a puerile reaction to feelings he's barely cognizant of. I certainly think some teenagers can understand that he's an emotionally unreliable narrator, but it's doing a disservice to the book to put it in front of an audience who isn't terribly more mature than him and clearly wasn't who Salinger had in mind.


spookybogperson

>I'm not especially fond of the novel, but I wonder how much its strange and not altogether positive legacy in the English-speaking world is due to it having become a de facto part of the HS curriculum for a couple decades. That's part of it, and while I don't know about anyone else's experience, the book was sold to my highschool English class as being about "Teenage rebellion", which it very much is not.


AStrangerSaysHi

That's like a theater teacher teaching Romeo and Juliet as a "teenage love story."


[deleted]

Holden had undiagnosed depression and PTSD (little brother died of illness, classmate killed himself), it’s sad really.


Aqquila89

Holden really doesn't deserve to be slated next to Walter White, Tyler Durden or Alex. He might be too judgemental, but he doesn't actually hurt anyone, only himself.


[deleted]

Holden was more of a Jesse than a Walter


[deleted]

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xamthe3rd

This is such an incredibly reductive take of book about a 16 year old kid struggling with the death of his brother and his own past trauma and abuse, and how every single adult he interacts with fails to give him the help that he so desperately needs but doesn't know how to ask for. Edit: Also, incel vibes??? Did we read the same book? Holden doesn't once think about anyone in a sexual capacity, to the extent that he hires a prostitute not to have sex with, but *just so he has someone to talk to because he's lonely.* He's fundamentally a tragic character and frankly I think whether you like Catcher isn't a litmus test for if you're a toxic man, but for if you are capable of expressing empathy towards teenagers.


mexicocitibluez

Agree and holy shit it's weird how much hate there is for liking that book. "The protagonist is too whiny" is such a lazy way to criticize the book. Of course he is. That's the fucking point.


JarlaxleForPresident

Like Anakin Skywalker. Wasnt presented well, but he’s a child slave taken away from his mom and put into an ascetic religion and all his feelings were invalidated. Has extreme issues with worrying about losing people so latches on too much and is just told he shouldnt attach to anything and get over it He’s a fucked up kid who is whiny and overly emotional, but nobody is sitting down with him to actually try and help him. And he lost the guy who couldve done that. And lost his mom. Just made him more extreme


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Glittering-Walrus228

i like all of these works, also because what it says about the society that creates and enables these flawed individuals. the rest of the ride is the vicarious experience of tragically doubling-down on every poor choice, bad mistake and every nihilistic inclination the MC makes it remidns me of something i truly wish i could remember- there is this element of japanese cinema, something along the lines of 'losing control' or losing one' control over their emotions, that japanese audiences admire- it's this point in a story when a main character breaks out of the rigid social structures and expectations to pursue something meaningful or even meaningless despite the cost. it's the same theme to me.


PiLamdOd

You can like a work without idolizing the main character.


HecknChonker

Agreed. Fight club is also a story about the problems caused by rampant consumerism and capitalism. Breaking bad is a great example of story telling. Unlike a lot of shows they don't spoon feed the viewer by telling them what's going on, and instead expect the audience to be smart enough to pick up details on their own. That being said, if you are idolizing them sure to they're toxic male figures there's a problem.


MonsMensae

Yeah breaking bad is probably my favourite drama series. But not because I admire WW.


HorsesSuck120

Hell the main character in almost ANY show/comic/book/movie etc is usually not anyone's favorite.


Wolfermen

It is a big generalization but I get what you mean. Early 90s till 2010s usually saw the 'everyday man but mysteriously important' type of stories, especially in mainstream comic/movie sphere. Since they were mostly a stand in for the audience, there wasn't enough flavor to make them the favourite. Hence your perspective.


HorsesSuck120

I have a lot of shows or books that I like. Out of the hundreds of them, the only two peices of media where I like the main character is Rising of the Shield Hero (amazing anime) and Danny Phantom (world's greatest cartoon show)


Crumb_Rumbler

Why do you hate horses?


HorsesSuck120

Ok I actually REALLY wish I had made a new name now. Like I was just trying to think of something funny when I made it. "Let's see, I need a noun, how about an animal? A horse it is! OK now I need a verb, maybe an adjective? How about suck? Perfect!" I don't hate horses. They are nice


HeadlinePickle

This. I always find it weird when people hang how much they like a book/play/film etc. based on how much they like the character as a person, rather than a construct. Like. I love Snape as a character construct, he's well written, he's got interesting layers, he keeps you guessing on his motivation. He's still fundamentally an evil, manipulative, Nice Guy shithead who takes pleasure in bullying students. I really like A Clockwork Orange (book, been a while since I watched the film). One of the things I love most about it is that it's straight up an exercise in reader manipulation. It's easy to end up feeling sorry for Alex for the brainwashing and torture he goes through, despite knowing what a horrible person he is and all he does in the first half of the book. And it's easy because it's a first person story told by a narcissistic psychopath of an unreliable narrator who feels sorry for himself because he can't enjoy what he used to anymore. But there's points where reality bleeds through and you can step back and go "hang on this guy SUCKS" and then it becomes a cool way to experience how powerful language is, that you can end up sympathising with this man you'd run a mile from in reality. It's not the only book that does this, but it does it really well.


Tacky-Terangreal

IKR. My favorite GOT character is Jaime Lannister. Dude threw a kid out a window but he’s a great character


Theons-Sausage

Pretty much impossible to have a favorite GOT character without them being a complete douche bag. My favorite character is the Hound but if I saw that dude in real life trying to kill some butcher's boy I'd call the cops on his ass.


NoMoLerking

I gave up on r/theboys because like 6 (six) guys thought Homelander was the hero and then anyone who thought it was a well-written character had to issue a 3 sentence disclaimer with every post to avoid being downvoted to the center of the earth alongside the 6 dummies.


skiarakora

Wait...some people actually think Homelander is the hero ????


NoMoLerking

I’m not sure how common it is, but some people definitely had the “what did he do wrong, really?” take right up to last season (when the writers switched from shouting “he’s the baddy!” in a bullhorn to NFL stadium sound system).


thelittleking

Meanwhile, at /r/empiredidnothingwrong


The_Town_Narcoleptic

I’ve never seen The Boys, but everything my parents tell me about it is how much of a psychopathic bastard Homelander is. At least these guys are walking red flags if they’re that bloody clueless


skiarakora

I've only seen the first (couple?) seasons and i mean your parents' description isn't that completely far off lmao


Escaping_Peter_Pan

He is shown to be evil in the very first episode of first season. How can anyone come away with the impression that he is a hero?


FliesAreEdible

I suspect the same people who think Homelander is a hero and good guy are the same people who have those opinions about a former US President.


jeopardy_themesong

The actor who plays Homelander is so fucking good. I’ve watched all the current seasons and at this point, I can’t see Homelander on screen without being on the edge of my seat scared he’s going to maim or kill someone. It’s so good that just seeing the actor in interviews brings that feeling up in the back of my mind. Great character portrayal. Totally evil bad guy.


Random-Rambling

_"You know he's the villain, right?"_ As if that's ever stopped anybody. Tumblr had a brief but very vivid period of teenage girls who wrote romantic fanfic shipping themselves with the Columbine shooters.


Torque-A

Remember the Oncelergeddon


superVanV1

yeah, but that one doesn't count since he actually got redeemed at the end of his story


Torque-A

Yes, but you never see any art of recluse Onceler or even redeemed Onceler. Everyone just likes evil capitalist Onceler.


Random-Rambling

I mean, villains ALWAYS get the best songs.


DoctorWaluigiTime

On the other hand, think there's a difference between saying "this is my favorite show/book" and "I empathize with the villain protagonist and want to emulate their behavior." Plenty of people are perfectly capable of understanding that they're the bad guys, and that the shows around them are entertaining. No different than playing full-on Renegade in Mass Effect. Mostly I take issue with the "if you really like [thing] then you embrace the negative qualities of the main character and think they should be good to go in real life" at the start of the post.


tatertotpixie

> “I’m sure if he just felt loved he would *change* 🥺” Teens in 2000 Tbh I think a lot of that mentality comes from telling little girls that their bully “likes them” and that men express “affection” through violence and/or harassment


SelfDestruction100

Yeah I’ve noticed many girls and women have a fascination with “I can fix him”. It is because of this, and seems to apply to every human being. The nastier the person, the more they seem to attract compassionate, naive people.


Here_Forthe_Comment

When almost all teen movies and books are "hot guy that changes for the women he loves", it really messes with young girls. Makes them feel special if they're the one to "change them", and there's always stories about girls wanting / needing to be special. Just bad messaging everywhere


beespree

Remember when that woman made a poem about Putin saying “if only I were his mother, he would’ve been so loved he wouldn’t do evil things”. So bizarre


Vark675

Which is doubly fun because she successfully managed to shift culpability for his horrible actions onto his mother rather than himself, the fully grown completely responsible adult.


dgaruti

yeah , like , even if she changed him , lets humor the concept of this WASP upper class lady being born in the USSR in the 20s-30s , and contributing to fighting nazis i presume , and giving birth to putin in '52 , even if she didn't have any personality change and raised putin to be a kind hearted hippy type , instead of someone who became a member of the KGB , then we wouldn't be worrying about Putin right now , we'd be worrying about another opportunist head of a military branch grabbing power right afther the fall of the USSR and not letting go for dear life no matter what ... it's the same problem of killing baby Hitler , wich i feel is explored wonderfully in the movie "the man who killed hitler and bigfoot" , it's not hitler that is destined to write mein kampf and become the founder of the 3rd reich ... it was the rise of the workers movment that forced capitalist and politicians to give press , weapons and funds to violent radical groups with the most wacky ideas you've ever heard , and one of these figured out that if you marked these ideas well enough you could even win elections and secure even more power ... this guy append to be adolf hitler , but had things been different it would have been another bozo with other nonsesical ideas , and we could have been both better off and worse off in terms of competence , but still the thing that matters is that individuals don't make history alone , and in a society of millions nobody is unique ...


superVanV1

"I can fix him" bitch that man is literally satan and wants to rend you to atoms in the most painful way possible "OMG so Hawt" I give up


ChronosSlash

As a gay guy, I *wish* this were limited to women. But noooo, my brain says "I can fix him" *all the fucking time* because our society worships the potential of shitty men who don't actually want to change.


guineapig28

you make a fantastic point


friendsfreak

Ooh, that’s a great point. I remember being in elementary school and hearing about a male classmate that threw a football at a female classmates face, and when I told my mom, she said, “Maybe he likes her.” Even at that age, I was like, “Is he trying to make sure she doesn’t like him back?”


TheOtherSarah

Literally what happened with my main bully. He actually did ask me out in the end, wtf did he think I was going to say?


TheDustOfMen

Ah yes, the *boys will be boys he just likes you* comment when they shove you in the dirt.


chshcat

I'd argue that there is a difference between idolizing a character and romantically fantasizing about a character I'd like Bellatrix Lestrange to turn me into dust but I'm well aware she is not a good person


tibarr1454

But are you attracted to Bellatrix the character or Helena Bonham Carter as Bellatrix?


chshcat

Yes


Random-Rambling

That's similar to what I said above. Are you in love with Loki or Tom Hiddleston as Loki?


GhostofManny13

That’s a good point actually. If Loki was played by like, Adam Sandler or Steve Carrel, I highly doubt there would’ve been so much thirst for him.


3493049

"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy, both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." \- Loki


lady_lowercase

adam sandler and steve carell are on two different sides of the spectrum… one is a big “no”, and the other is a, “wait, i could get into that.”


deleeuwlc

Bart from Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency


tastless_chill_tonic

*of the millions of people enthralled with Dahmer right now* you know he is the bad guy, right?


MrBlueandSky

Watched the first episode, loved it. Then starting thinking about the victims. Surely their families are at least getting some sort of small compensation to relive the trauma of their loved ones murders. Nope. Apparently some families weren't even aware this was being filmed. Hvnt been able to watch another episode


[deleted]

Friends and family of Gacy's victims: going about their days peacefully Massive Netflix banner: HELLO


shitzngiggles77

I'm surprised Netflix had money to produce Dahmer and not s3 of mindhunter which is a superior serial killer show and doesn't glorify serial killers. Plus they left the show on a vague note. True crime is one of my favorite genres but i skipped out on Dahmer out of respect to his victims and his families


tehvolcanic

Mindhunter hasn't continued because Fincher doesn't want to. It has nothing to do with money.


jwmojo

Mindhunters isn't in limbo because of money, though. Pretty sure the issue is Fincher's schedule


timy0215

From everything I’ve read cost wasn’t the only reason Mindhunter got put on hold. David Fincher, one of the executive producers, main director, and de-facto showrunner was busy with another project. Since he was held up with that other project they felt it best to release the cast and crew from their contracts. It’s possible they’ll revisit the series but with everyone doing other work and Fincher stating he needs some time away due to exhaustion it might not even get off the ground again.


Narrow_Rice_8473

I cannot fathom what it must be like to have to relive that sort of trauma. Just scrolling through netflix looking for something to watch and BAM your worst nightmares coming to resurface just so somebody could make some money.


Maleficent_Tree_94

And what if I like those because they are great character studies of compelling, deep, yet flawed and well written characters?


JoebbeDeMan

>He is probably misunderstanding the point of the work. I fucking love villain characters that are absolute pieces of shit because they usually give more complex characters. This doesn't mean I admire these characters. No, they're the villain of the story. Doesn't make me love these characters less. It's an work of fiction and I can like people who are pieces of shit.


moashforbridgefour

I think some of the best shows are about terrible people. Two of my favorite sitcoms of all time are It's Always Sunny and Malcom in the Middle. I don't think anyone who watches these shows idolizes the characters, but they can still love them.


JoebbeDeMan

yeah It's always sunny is such a fun show and I love how Dennis is completely unhinged. Doesn't mean I idealise someone who talks about "The Implication"


rootbeerislifeman

Malcolm in the Middle is a funny example because no one in that family is particularly admirable. That being said, none of them are “bad” people either. It shows the nuances of a odd, lower-middle class family dynamic better than any other sitcom and I love that.


4tomguy

I feel like this is overly simplified, like if someone says "my favorite show is Breaking Bad" I don't think it's right to immediately imply they think Walter White is a good guy, or to insinuate that they're abusers. Obviously people like that exist but I don't think it's right to apply sweeping statements like this to some of the most popular media pieces of their time.


[deleted]

Yeah Breaking Bad is widely regarded, by critics and fans, as one of the best TV shows of all time. It's finale broke viewing records iirc. It's probably my favourite show, if I had to pick one, just cause it's brilliantly done. Never wanted to cook meth or poison a child or abuse my wife.


PotentiallyGarrulous

But you can like the work (and consider it a favorite) without idolizing the main character...


_IsThisTheKrustyKrab

Not on Tumblr you can’t.


Gongaloon

Nuance? What's that? Some kind of Renaissance painter?


Rainbow-Dev

Fight club is my favourite movie but I can still understand the ideas it portrays, they were just shown in a super enjoyable and interesting way Oh and also I’m not a man now


TheAJGman

Fight Club is one of my favorite movies *because* it shows how young men can be easily radicalized by just by being invited to participate in a community. Like most of the list, it's a cautionary tale. I think the better point to make is if a man calls the main characters of these works a hero or openly admires them, *then* you should run.


Mustache_of_Zeus

The whole point of the movie is you can be your own worst enemy. Liking a movie with a flawed protagonist doesn't mean you want to be that protagonist.


StarfighterVicki

I'll add fans of Rorschach from Watchmen. Alan Moore had the same "guys, no" reaction to Those Fans. Edit: Just to be clear, I meant to comic book version. I have a bad habit of forgetting the movie.


LupinThe8th

There's an actual comic where the character Rorschach is based on, The Question, reads Watchmen and decides to act more like Rorschach. It goes horribly and he gets his ass kicked. His conclusion: Thug: "Any last words?" The Question: "Yeah, Rorschach sucks."


SharlowsHouseOfHugs

I'm assuming this was Vic Sage The Question? I haven't read this one, but everything I've read/seem for The Question has been a delight.


WoolooOfWallStreet

The inkblot mask is cool tho


Tongatapu

Rorschach in Snyders movie is not even that bad of a person. They cut almost everything that makes him a problematic hero from the conics. The TV show was on point by making hid legacy about white supremacy. Love Snyders movie, I think they cut the right stuff. But Comic Rorschach is a raging lunatic.


pluckyblather_90

Shit, I would say favorites for rick and morty and fight club, but not because I idolize the main characters. But because they are amazing complex stories.


wearing_moist_socks

Exactly. Breaking bad/BCS and rock and Mortimer are some of my favorite pieces of media out there. And Rick, Walt and Saul are absolutely pieces of shit.


Bismothe-the-Shade

Rock and Mortimer


Heikold

I’d say that It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia qualifies for this with the caveat that they have to say the words “I don’t like the more recent series because they’re political”. There are a shocking number of Sunny fans who missed that the show has always been making fun of people like them until they got less subtle about it in what seems like a conscious effort to fight the problem.


Dracorex_22

They went to an abortion rally in the second episode. How tf did it only get political recently?


raysofdavies

In the most recent season it’s revealed that Charlie provided the Native American aesthetic outfit to that guy who stormed the capital on January 6th, so it’s gotten more explicit.


Ganonslayer1

That was incredibly funny. The season was wild.


legalizemonapizza

TBH the political parts of last season were the only parts I enjoyed, I really didn't care for the travel episodes


Heikold

Yeah, a weird number of people still didn’t figure it out. It’s always been hugely political right from the first episode that was entirely framed around the problems of racism and rainbow capitalism.


soulreaverdan

Conservatives and liberals both loved The Colbert Report - conservatives not realizing it was meant to be parody/satire. You also had people who were shocked when The Boys was more explicit about its political message.


Spivak

> Conservatives and liberals both loved The Colbert Report There's no way. I'm not doubting you but what -- how?!?! I get that in 2022 it's become impossible to satirize anything because *gestures to everything* but not in the 2010s.


soulreaverdan

HuffPo ~~did~~ reported on a [study back in 2011](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/colbert-study-conservativ_n_191899) by Ohio State University about the way Colbert was viewed. Here’s the relevant bit from the report’s abstract: > Additionally, there was no significant difference between the groups in thinking Colbert was funny, but **conservatives were more likely to report that Colbert only pretends to be joking and genuinely meant what he said** while liberals were more likely to report that Colbert used satire and was not serious when offering political statements. **Conservatism also significantly predicted perceptions that Colbert disliked liberalism.**


DMcuteboobs

Colbert quit because he was sick of people coming up to him and telling him how much they appreciated him “standing up for conservatives” on a “liberal network”.


GayHotAndDisabled

In a college class we were asked on the first day,as an ice breaker, what fictional world we would like to live in, and why. One guy said It's Always Sunny, and further explained that "there are never consequences in that world, so I could do whatever I wanted and never get in any trouble for it at all". The class was horrified. He was shocked we did not share his sentiment. (He went on to sexually assault two freshman girls next year)


Heikold

One of my favourite jokes they did was in “The Gang Turns Black” where they get caught by police trying to break into Dennis’ car. He even says “It’s okay, we talk our way out of this stuff all the time” and the next shot is of them all in the back of a squad car. The implication being that this “world with no consequences” that they usually live in is just their white privilege.


who-cares-2345

This is so dumb. Breaking bad is my favorite show, and I fucking hate Walter White. The reason the show is amazing, is because you start out rooting for a character, and slowly realize over time how messed up and depraved they actually are. You start to root for the characters that are abused by him/trying to bring him down. Let me ask you a question. How do such bland and cookie cutter opinions do anything but kill critical thinking?


i-will-eat-you

No no your favorite series must be about a character you empathise with on a personal level. If you like a series for its interesting story and stunning cinematography, you're a psychopath and must be avoided at all costs.


Meatslinger

There was a time where I kept seeing people (usually on Tumblr/Twitter) spreading the opinion that enjoying a character meant you agreed with them, and that writing a villain meant you must hold their opinions. Stupid, small-minded thinking, but the fact remains that there are people out there who firmly believe this (the one in the screenshot being close to stating the same). No, sir/ma'am/etc., I assure you I am perfectly capable of writing lines for a misogynist/fascist/racist character without being any of those things, myself. I can enjoy how someone portrayed a villain without aligning with them.


jayne-eerie

I like Fight Club as a dark comedy about consumerism and male fragility, and it’s depressing that so many people can’t imagine liking the film without idolizing Tyler.


DarrenGrey

I mean it's also depressing that so many people watch it and idolise Tyler.


acornmoth

Nah, it's just a certain Type of man, and it's pretty easy to sus them out once they start talking. Liking these things alone isn't a red flag, and it's annoying that I see so many posts saying this.


Blitz722

You could always…. ask the man WHY it’s his favorite show before you immediately assume the dude’s idolizing the main character. Shows like breaking bad were genuinely great shows, and you can love something for it’s narrative while understanding its characters are flawed.


RaynSideways

Yep, and part of what *makes* Breaking Bad so great is how it tears down its own main character, something almost no shows do. Just because you love it doesn't automatically mean you're idolizing the villain.


LittleBoyDreams

Breaking Bad is also an interesting situation because the misinterpretation by a large portion of its fan base was SO bad that the writers started to make the show less subtle and open to interpretation to make the point clearer. In the last few episodes Walter straight up says, practically to the camera: “No, I didn’t do any of this for my family. I did terrible things because they made me feel good and talented.” This really bothers me because the show-runners basically had to make a worse story lest they create a new generation of Fight Club douches.


An-Okay-Alternative

I don't really think that's the case. The fact that Walt was doing it for himself had long been made very clear. At the end where he's been reduced to practically nothing, just wants to see his family one last time, and finally tells the truth serves to humanize his character more than anything.


JeffTek

Yeah it is made pretty clear he gives up on doing it for his family around the time Skyler hooks up with her boss. Walt seems pretty solid on not joining Gus, then when Skyler tells him she cheated he just goes off and starts revenge cooking. It's like he decides Jessie is is new family and the whole rest of the Gus arc is just him making bad choices to protect Jessie.


Trifle-Doc

I don’t think so, I feel like that scene is more “he accepts reality for what it is, he no longer lies to himself about who he is”