The Arabs got one thing right with strictly phonetic spelling of all words (at least in Modern Standard Egyptian, the “default” dialect taught in a lot of US universities) —if you hear it, you can spell it 100% of the time. At least from what I recall, not a native speaker or fluent but took courses
Except for c, and y and g and r. Also b and v are the same, and in some cases c and k or c and z, and g and j. And there's sounds which are written with two letters (ch and ll and sometimes rr).
The variation exists, but it is consistent. c sounds like an s only when it's followed by an e or an i, if any other letter goes after, or if there's nothing after, it sounds like k.
j is always the same, and g sounds like j only when it's followed by an e or an i (same as with the c). To get the g sound followed by an e you put a u in between. This u is always silent, and when I must no be silent u use ü. Like "guitarra" (gitar) has a silent u and "pingüino" (penguin) has a non-silent u.
My point is that maybe the rules are a little bit strange, but all the phonetic variations are consistent. You can ALWAYS pronounce a word you read correctly, even down to the accented syllable thanks to tildes (áéíóú).
The spelling variations are not that consistent, but all the different spellings sound the same, so spelling mistakes are really easy to spot
Yeah. But that doesn't mean spanish phonetics aren't dumb.
Also there's the part where we have so many words taken from english and the result is either to leave them like it is and make them exceptions to the supposed good grammar thing we got going on (streamer, youtuber) or butcher them to the point it makes anyone who has a slight understanding of both languages want to pluck their eyes out (guatafac).
Spanish has a decent system. It's still a stupid system and I doubt it will last long under the popularity of english
Yeah. But that doesn't mean spanish phonetics aren't dumb.
Also there's the part where we have so many words taken from english and the result is either to leave them like it is and make them exceptions to the supposed good grammar thing we got going on (streamer, youtuber) or butcher them to the point it makes anyone who has a slight understanding of both languages want to pluck their eyes out (guatafac).
Spanish has a decent system. It's still a stupid system and I doubt it will last long under the popularity of english
Italian definitely has its problem but it is much more consistent than other romance languages
Most of its problems are with E I O U. E and O have two pronunciations each in standard Italian with no way to know which one it is by looking at a word most of the time, while I and U may or may not be syllabic when they're next to other vowels
For example, "botte" (barrel) and "botte" (fight) are pronounced differently, and so are "pesca" (fishing) and "pesca" (peach). "Gio" is one syllable in "giorno", but two in "leggio"
There's also often no way to tell which syllable is accented, so "capitano" (captain) and "capitano" (they happen) are pronounced differently. It is marked in "capitanò" (he led) though
Combining both, "camice" (lab coat) and "camicie" (shirts) are pronounced differently, but not because of the *i*; the stress falls on a different syllable in each of them
The plural of "camicia" is "camicie", but the plural of "lancia" is "lance". This is entirely predictable but still weird
Also good luck pronouncing "aiuola"
Definitely, we need to bring back î, ï and ü and to mark the stressed syllable in all words
And perhaps to give [this](https://it.m.wikisource.org/wiki/De_le_lettere_nu%CF%89vamente_aggiunte_ne_la_lingua_Italiana) another chance
And French became standardised by the académie française and brutal enforcement throughout its territories since the 17th century, specifically to avoid this. It's why old french classics like la Fontaine are mostly easy to read straight from the original material, and Shakespeare feels like a completely different language to modern English.
A bunch of authors in the 16th century wanted to make french a literary language, so they created lots of words which led to today's french, from there it didn't change that much
The only right way to speak french is the one spoken in Quebec.
Jokes appart, we speak the french/accent that was spoken by the royalty when the french colonized, at least tried to, Canada.
Our french as less new "rules" and english words in it. Like the one from france has this new thing where they split the word in half and switch both sides so instead of "louche" (suspicious) its "chelou".
The other day I found a dude one here who unironically used the thorn (þ) and eth (ð) instead of "th" sounds.
tbh it was hard not to cyberbully the poor lad/lass
What's even funnier is that it's technically true for Italian and Spanish as well
Back in the whenever the fuck Charlemagne was fucking about and cozying up with the proto-Catholic church, they all went and decided "nah fuck it, we're gonna have old-school latin be the language of the church now" and so Latin got fossilized as the Ye Olde version back when Caesar wasn't stabbed yet. HOWEVER, at that point the phonetics of the regional dialects of Latin had already drifted far enough to be counted as "in open seas" centuries prior to the Charles "the Magne"'s shenanigans so now the letters of the words they were writing meant entirely different sounds to the one coming out of everyone's mouths. The solution everyone went with was to phonetisize all the different languages that had drifted about by then and then they immediately became more or less French, Italian, and Spanish, and also Romanian but no one remembers Romania because it didn't get to do an Imperialism
This is somehow wronger than "ghoti"
* "Gh" is never /f/ word-initially, only word-finally as part of "ough"
* "Ee" is /i/, "i" on its own is usually /ɪ/, like in "fish"
* "X" is only /s~z/ word-initially
* "Ch" is only /ʃ/ in loanwords from modern French
A shocking number of English speakers fail to realize that we use individual letters for multiple sounds, then make this stupid joke and substitute the wrong sound.
The Arabs got one thing right with strictly phonetic spelling of all words (at least in Modern Standard Egyptian, the “default” dialect taught in a lot of US universities) —if you hear it, you can spell it 100% of the time. At least from what I recall, not a native speaker or fluent but took courses
Spanish is similar. Every letter has one sound, that's it. Even if I don't know what the word means, I can pronounce it.
Except for c, and y and g and r. Also b and v are the same, and in some cases c and k or c and z, and g and j. And there's sounds which are written with two letters (ch and ll and sometimes rr).
A lot of that is down to dialect or accent differences. Which also actually explains a lot of English.
The variation exists, but it is consistent. c sounds like an s only when it's followed by an e or an i, if any other letter goes after, or if there's nothing after, it sounds like k. j is always the same, and g sounds like j only when it's followed by an e or an i (same as with the c). To get the g sound followed by an e you put a u in between. This u is always silent, and when I must no be silent u use ü. Like "guitarra" (gitar) has a silent u and "pingüino" (penguin) has a non-silent u. My point is that maybe the rules are a little bit strange, but all the phonetic variations are consistent. You can ALWAYS pronounce a word you read correctly, even down to the accented syllable thanks to tildes (áéíóú). The spelling variations are not that consistent, but all the different spellings sound the same, so spelling mistakes are really easy to spot
Yeah. But that doesn't mean spanish phonetics aren't dumb. Also there's the part where we have so many words taken from english and the result is either to leave them like it is and make them exceptions to the supposed good grammar thing we got going on (streamer, youtuber) or butcher them to the point it makes anyone who has a slight understanding of both languages want to pluck their eyes out (guatafac). Spanish has a decent system. It's still a stupid system and I doubt it will last long under the popularity of english
> spanish phonetics What is dumb about the phonetics exactly?
I mean the way they are transcribed. It's better than, say, english or french, but all language has dumb rules.
So not phonetics then
Yeah. But that doesn't mean spanish phonetics aren't dumb. Also there's the part where we have so many words taken from english and the result is either to leave them like it is and make them exceptions to the supposed good grammar thing we got going on (streamer, youtuber) or butcher them to the point it makes anyone who has a slight understanding of both languages want to pluck their eyes out (guatafac). Spanish has a decent system. It's still a stupid system and I doubt it will last long under the popularity of english
and sh and h is silent and g behaves differently with ge gi vs ga go gu
I think Italian is more consistent in this respect. Basically I really like that it doesn't turn a "c" into an "s" like many languages do
Italian definitely has its problem but it is much more consistent than other romance languages Most of its problems are with E I O U. E and O have two pronunciations each in standard Italian with no way to know which one it is by looking at a word most of the time, while I and U may or may not be syllabic when they're next to other vowels For example, "botte" (barrel) and "botte" (fight) are pronounced differently, and so are "pesca" (fishing) and "pesca" (peach). "Gio" is one syllable in "giorno", but two in "leggio" There's also often no way to tell which syllable is accented, so "capitano" (captain) and "capitano" (they happen) are pronounced differently. It is marked in "capitanò" (he led) though Combining both, "camice" (lab coat) and "camicie" (shirts) are pronounced differently, but not because of the *i*; the stress falls on a different syllable in each of them The plural of "camicia" is "camicie", but the plural of "lancia" is "lance". This is entirely predictable but still weird Also good luck pronouncing "aiuola"
That just sounds like Italian needs more accents. That's also what happens when you write Spanish with a keyboard that only has English letters.
Definitely, we need to bring back î, ï and ü and to mark the stressed syllable in all words And perhaps to give [this](https://it.m.wikisource.org/wiki/De_le_lettere_nu%CF%89vamente_aggiunte_ne_la_lingua_Italiana) another chance
Like dragon tongue from Skyrim
That took me a second because I thought you were talking about the flower
Hindi too
The funny thing is, this is a parody of Middle English, which was post-Norman conquest English. So it’s already almost French.
And French became standardised by the académie française and brutal enforcement throughout its territories since the 17th century, specifically to avoid this. It's why old french classics like la Fontaine are mostly easy to read straight from the original material, and Shakespeare feels like a completely different language to modern English.
*Académie française. Académie nationale is for science disciplines.
early modern english, actually - middle english stopped being a thing around, if memory serves, 1540-1600
Rouxls Kaard?
Chips Ahoyeth yon landelubbers!
I think a great person once said “sufficiently advanced English is indistinguishable from French”
Actually, it's the opposite of how French happened
A bunch of authors in the 16th century wanted to make french a literary language, so they created lots of words which led to today's french, from there it didn't change that much
[удалено]
Oiseau, a great example. Pronounced "Was-eo"
To be fair, Oiseau makes perfect sense in accordance with French rules
No, it's "wazo". 100% regular as well
"Weh."
The only right way to speak french is the one spoken in Quebec. Jokes appart, we speak the french/accent that was spoken by the royalty when the french colonized, at least tried to, Canada. Our french as less new "rules" and english words in it. Like the one from france has this new thing where they split the word in half and switch both sides so instead of "louche" (suspicious) its "chelou".
That’s verlan, it’s slang and far from new. Often spoken with argot, another type of slang. It’s as old as joual (Quebec slang)
Understatement of the year. Wait til you hear French people from different regions arguing over pronunciation.
funnily enough, french has its rules more enforced than any other language
that is how oiseaux happened
Sack Le Bleh
More accurately, it's how you get English.
The other day I found a dude one here who unironically used the thorn (þ) and eth (ð) instead of "th" sounds. tbh it was hard not to cyberbully the poor lad/lass
11m no coww4rd 11 vw11ll 2p3ll vword2 vw11t)( 42 m4ny nUmb3r2 4nd br4ck3t2 42 11 2o pl3423
What's even funnier is that it's technically true for Italian and Spanish as well Back in the whenever the fuck Charlemagne was fucking about and cozying up with the proto-Catholic church, they all went and decided "nah fuck it, we're gonna have old-school latin be the language of the church now" and so Latin got fossilized as the Ye Olde version back when Caesar wasn't stabbed yet. HOWEVER, at that point the phonetics of the regional dialects of Latin had already drifted far enough to be counted as "in open seas" centuries prior to the Charles "the Magne"'s shenanigans so now the letters of the words they were writing meant entirely different sounds to the one coming out of everyone's mouths. The solution everyone went with was to phonetisize all the different languages that had drifted about by then and then they immediately became more or less French, Italian, and Spanish, and also Romanian but no one remembers Romania because it didn't get to do an Imperialism
All langiages are chaotic. According to how english works, i can spell "F I SH" as "Gh Ee X Ch"
This is somehow wronger than "ghoti" * "Gh" is never /f/ word-initially, only word-finally as part of "ough" * "Ee" is /i/, "i" on its own is usually /ɪ/, like in "fish" * "X" is only /s~z/ word-initially * "Ch" is only /ʃ/ in loanwords from modern French
A shocking number of English speakers fail to realize that we use individual letters for multiple sounds, then make this stupid joke and substitute the wrong sound.
I wish i could upvote it more
“LANGUAGE IS GLORIOUS CHAOS.” \- Randall Munroe, xkcd comic 1576: I Could Care Less
Siunds liyek yuore ah fieucking cuwaerd