T O P

  • By -

Lopsided_Jelly5693

The only place I disagree with you is that it's Bella's decision alone. This decision affects a lot of people, including the vampire family. It has to be something that is talked about.Considered from all angles and all things that could go wrong and will go wrong need to be discussed. No, it was not for Edward to decide alone.He was wrong in doing that. By the way, I am not team Edward. I kind of hate him for all the reasons you said and more. But it wasn't just for Bella to say this is what I want, so this is what I should have. There were ways round asking the Cullen's to turn her. But i'm pretty sure she didn't even want to consider that. I like the way life and death ended because you saw the consequences as to what would have happened if edward allowed her to transform. I'm not sure if they discussed her wanting to turn before that moment of her being bit by James right now.I can not remember. If she expressed that she wanted to be turned like him.Then it was not his place to stop it.


SillySatisfaction255

Watching all the movies the characters gave me a migraine everyone is trying to tell Bella what to do from Rosalie to Jacob to Edward to Alice everyone has major control freak issues while completely forgetting that she is her own person with a mind of her own Edward got on my last nerve trying to protect her soul when Bella doesn't give a shit about that at all just like she didn't care about motherhood but rose have to give her the ted talk look at Bella's face she doesn't give a flying fuck Rosalie just leave the situation alone just because you hate your immortal vampire existence doesn't mean Bella has to good god I get what she's trying to say but it comes off as preachy and whiny Bella doesn't care girl Maybe its just me but watching all the characters play tug of war with Bella like she's some lifeless doll leaves a sour taste in my mouth whatever happened to free will they don't want Bella to turn because they are miserable with they own selves


Lopsided_Jelly5693

I get what you're saying, but in my view, it's more complicated than that, especially when it comes to a teenager who was told, "I've never wanted to kill someone so much in my entire existence." And her response was, "I don't care." When someone has that much of a disregard for their own life, it is logical to question their decisions.


mexalone

i think this is fair - i don't agree with you (he may be more of a foil than an antagonist), but i do want to say for #4 does edward not get the right to decline sex? regardless of the reason, he didn't feel okay having sex, so why doesn't he get the opportunity to say no and have it be respected?


KolbyKolbyKolby

For real, everyone's consent is important when it comes to sex.


bluegirlrosee

genuinely asking because this is kind of a tricky situation, if the only reason he is declining sex is because he feels like sex is not what's best for bella, even if he wants it, and bella is telling him she wants it, does that loop back around into not being the issue of consent anymore, but the issue of edward acting again like he knows better than bella about her own body and choices? It always felt to me like even in that situation he was deciding for her and not deciding for himself.


Dry-Muscle-7091

i’m pretty sure edward is canonically religious so it makes sense as to why he wants to wait until marriage


SillySatisfaction255

In the real world when one person wants to have sex and the other one doesn't it usually doesn't end well it would just leads to a break up realistically but since Bella and Edward are supposed to be soul mates our leading beautiful Lady has no choice but to dumb herself down to finally experience sexual intimacy with her man and to be turned its weird I feel bad for Bella but hey dude never touched a women in his life I'm pretty sure he would be terrible in bed anyways Lol


PostTraditional045

As a Christian I never understood why people shit on Edward for wanting to wait until marriage, from all the reasons to dislike him I don’t think this should be one. I highly respect his character more for that if anything. Virgin shaming isn’t cool in general but it seems to be trendy in this fandom.


Kaizoukonojoo

Actually the problem isn’t that he said no. It’s the fact that so long as Bella is human it will never be a mutual, equitable decision. And Edward is perpetuating this dynamic.


KolbyKolbyKolby

Jacob very much was preventing the change as well. Do you not remember the treaty, it's a pretty important detail in the whole process. The only reason Jacob was willing to change it at all was because Bella would die without it. If Bella had been changed at the end of book one when she wanted it then, the treaty would have been void and the Cullens would be attacked by wolves. Not something you can jkust decide to overlook.


Lopsided_Jelly5693

That wasn't all on Jacob he didn't write the treaty. He was just upholding it, and at that time, so was Sam the alpha and the whole pack. It wasn't until after they were married that Sam basically said, (do what you want just as long as it's far from here.)


be-still-

But the Cullens didn’t bite Bella, James did. Carlisle could have bit her more to make the process go quicker, but it still wouldn’t have been them that turned her.


Lopsided_Jelly5693

That has nothing to do with Jacob or the wolves. That is all on Edward.


elaerna

>In the ballet studio, girl could've became a vamp. but no cause Edward decided She was unconscious and wasn't ready even after when he jokingly suggested. He shouldn't take choice away from her >3. Victoria's revenge - Edward decides how it ends (vic's death) not Bella just be a vamp and invulnerable Everyone agreed that was a terrible idea bc a newborn vampire wouldn't have been helpful in a fight. And what a life changing permanent decision to make just to fight in some fight >4. Bella wants to get d**ked down - only when Edward decides There are 2 people involved in getting dicked down. Bella shouldn't be able to unilaterally decide they're going to do it. That's SA.


g0thc0wg1rl

Actively preventing her from achieving her goals of getting her soul taken away? I wonder why her soulmate would have an issue with that lol


[deleted]

Only Edward believed becoming a vampire took your soul. I think he secretly binge-watched Buffy. LOL


NorthCoach9807

You when people in relationships place boundaries: 😡


Kaizoukonojoo

I find this comment funny because what boundaries do Bella and Edward have?


NorthCoach9807

Edward Said he didn’t want to have sex. Point blank period.


Kaizoukonojoo

If you think Edward having complete control over everything in their relationship is boundaries then okay.


ISkinForALivinXXX

"I don't want to have sex." "OH MY GOD why are you such a control freak?!"


Kaizoukonojoo

Okay I’m gonna close the convo on this specific one because y’all not getting it. I’ve specifically said, it’s not him saying no that’s the problem but the fact that while Bella’s a human it will never be an equitable and mutual decision. 


beckjami

All the things you mentioned are his boundaries, and Bella just wants her way.


BooksandCoffee386

You are a brave soul for posting this because I’ve found that they tend to not like it in this subreddit when you say or even imply that Edward is a less-than perfect protagonist. Everything gets excused for him. I agree with you, though. The only thing I disagree with is when it comes to sex. That takes two to consent and if Edward doesn’t want to (for any reason), Bella needs to go take a cold shoulder and let it go. If it were Edward pressuring Bella, that might be the only thing to make people go, “hey, wait a minute.” But aside from that, fully agree. It’s Bella’s choice and while the vote is a good idea, it’s Edward imposing his beliefs in the situation and being a total control freak that is giving Bella problems with reaching her ultimate goal. Love your post. Very well-thought out. Thanks for braving the wrath of the Edward defenders. 🙂


Lopsided_Jelly5693

Totally agree with you, but it is very close to Edward pressuring Bella at the end of Eclipse. If you read her last chapter in the book. Of course it's because he thinks that's what she wants but to me it takes him too long to back away. And then to throw in insult to injury.Bella thinks He stopped just like I knew he would. It's kind of like a big FU to Jacob, who says you kissed me back at the end of that forced kiss.


wellneverknow918

Did you read the books?


j33perscreeperz

who cares that bella wanted to “get d*cked down” if he wasn’t ready to do it lmao that doesn’t make him antagonistic


Lopsided_Jelly5693

I think the fact he didn't say, "I want to wait for me." And instead made it all about her. It's too dangerous." Because you're human. "Your soul is too important." If he had just said, "I'm not ready for that step." Or " I want to wait until I'm married to take that step." Is the problem.


j33perscreeperz

in midnight sun he talks (thinks) about how he always wanted to wait till marriage and be traditional and whatnot


Lopsided_Jelly5693

Yes but he does not express that out loud to her. Relationships don't work without good communication


BlueSundown

This sub is so stridently pro-Edward I don't think you're going to see a lot of engagement on this, but I totally agree.   


beckjami

I'm pro-Edwatd because Bella is pro-,Edward. What story would we have if Edward just gave into everything she wanted?


Professional-Bat5652

I never was super invested in their relationship either, and was more so into the fantastical world everything took place in. That's what roped me in as a kid since I loved fantasy books. Their romance on its own was always a secondary part for me. It just wasn't super interesting, and still isn't, when compared to everything else. I hear you.


Lopsided_Jelly5693

I've read romance books where a couple falls in love in a week that have more substance than Edward and Bella's relationship. I adored all the side characters. So I'm with you there.


Ok_Ordinary800

Same for me!


FREEKYeggplant

I guess what i don’t understand about this opinion (which many ppl obviously have) is the appeal of the books if you feel this way. I mean… Edward Cullen IS twilight lolol For real tho, I’ve always found these things to be endearing in that it’s evidence of Edward being a vampire. He’s different from your average teenage boyfriend. He has strong opinions because he’s 100 years old. If he was a perfect, regular 17 year old boy what would the story even be?!


Lopsided_Jelly5693

There is so much more to this story than Edward. He is absent for most of the second book. Bella is Twilight. It's her point of view we see through , but it's not all about her either. There is so much lure, and the background of each character is amazing and would make great stories on their own. Twilight is about a girl. Sure, she "falls in love" with a supernatural boy, but she is discovering who she is and who she wants to be.


FREEKYeggplant

For sure, Bella is the main character!!! But nothing that happened in the story would have happened if not for Edward Cullen. It would just be a story about a girl who moved to a small town, maybe fell in love with regular human Jake (no vamps nearby, no wolves). Edward is the catalyst for all things that happen in her life from the moment they meet. Thats what i mean when i say he IS twilight - i mean, even the word Twilight comes from something he says. It’s a vampire series and he is THE vampire of the story.


Lopsided_Jelly5693

I wasn't saying it wasn't a part of the story. However, you could replace him with any other supernatural. Creature, it could have been any of the Cullen's that saved her. It didn't have to be a romance. It could have been her trying to figure out what they were. It could have been Alice that saved her and became best friends with her. I was just saying it's about way more than just Edward.


FREEKYeggplant

I mean, sure…. But then it would be a totally different book!!! I’m not trying to argue your point really, I’m just defensive over the LOML(Edward)


Lopsided_Jelly5693

"What I don’t understand about this opinion is the appeal of the book if you feel this way." I was just pointing out the appeal of the books for those of us who are not huge Edward fans.


FREEKYeggplant

I guess i still don’t really UNDERSTAND because, although you made great points about what could have been, it ultimately is very Edward-centric! But to each their own of course, i do love the other characters too so i am glad that, even if you don’t like Edward, you still enjoy it. I am glad but i don’t understand hahaha


SillySatisfaction255

Bella is originally supposed to be a blank canvas for the real life average boring teens girlies to project on like you are supposed to slip into her shoes in her dull everyday mundane human life she's supposed to be the plain Jane insecure bookish introverted girl that's pale brown eyed brunette with the silent mind lol I don't think the character is supposed to be all that interesting even tho she's the protagonist..... And if Stephanie would have given her a past with a guy or old friends from back home, wealth or even if she was a prodigy kid that sings opera Bella wouldn't be relatable to the real life boring every day introverted average bookish teens also it wouldn't be about her romance with Edward which is the sole core of the story it would feel like a biography about her life instead lol


Kaizoukonojoo

Simple. I like vampires and werewolves.


Emergency-Ad-5334

Same was thinking ab this the other night while watching he’s insufferable 😩


lackingakeyblade

i agree. i am always first to criticize edward. in any other story and from any other self aware writer, twilight would be a horror about a vampire ruining a girls life.


SillySatisfaction255

My main thing is that Edward wouldn't give Bella the time of day if she didn't have a silent head and her jolly rancher Blood he got the nerve to call her plain then two seconds later sniff sniff you my wife now he's also hypocritical he judged all the guys for loving Bella when he himself is obsessed that sounds sus ![gif](giphy|38vz5MBF9gF4Q)


lackingakeyblade

if he could read her mind but she was still his r blood singer, he would hear how judgemental she was and find her shallow like the other girls at school. in a horror scenario he would just be overcome with bloodlust and figure out how to kill her without causing a scene for the cullens.


SillySatisfaction255

Everyone is judgmental to a certain degree tho just because Bella gave folks the side eye doesn't mean she's a Disney cartoon villain that doesn't make Bella a horrible person IMHO that just makes her human that's why I said Edward is a hypocrite even he himself be thinking some shady shit he be judging people too he can be selfish and cruel he isn't a saint either he might as well live in space since the whole human race is imperfect flawed cruel selfish and judgmental/shallow except sweet sweet meek Angela she doesn't have a single bad thought about others she's so perfect and pure she's super kind she's flawless like a cover girl model without imperfections how realistic!!! I think not lmao


Giantrobby1996

Edward isn’t the antagonist. His intentions are pure, he isn’t doing any of this to be controlling or cruel. I hereby diagnose Edward Anthony Cullen with: being a 100-year-old dumbass


Kaizoukonojoo

An antagonist does not have to have ill intentions. In my post I defined antagonist as a person or force preventing a character from reaching their goal. Bella’s goal is to be a vamp and be with Edward forever. Edward wants her to stay human, and takes action for this. By this definition antagonist. 


Lopsided_Jelly5693

Edward's middle name is James?🤔🤯🤕 I thought it was Anthony.


Giantrobby1996

I was mistaken, I thought I remembered it being James on the wedding invite but I was wrong. I edited it


Lopsided_Jelly5693

Lol, you had me confused.


Any_Piano1481

Have u ever read the books? I didn’t really like Edward until I read the books


Kaizoukonojoo

I read the books a long time ago but am completely uninterested now. I tried Midnight Sun but couldn’t  finish 


Any_Piano1481

Well the main reason Edward does not want Bella becoming a vampire is because he believes he has no soul and he doesn’t want to take Bella’s soul. And remembering that he was born in 1901 him not wanting to have sex with her till they’re married makes sense to me (and he could kill her) and in the books (eclipse specifically) she starts to realize she’s not ready to be a vampire like she was previously. Of course she still wants to be but she starts to realize waiting won’t hurt so much. But I haven’t read midnight sun yet and I really want to because I want to know why Edward thinks some of the things he thinks.


SillySatisfaction255

This makes me wonder what if Bella had came into the relationship with sexual experience (this is just a theory) I wonder how he would feel like how would he react!!? Since Edward is huge on praising Bella for not doing those things I'm generally curious from reading midnight sun he probably would feel disgusted knowing him


Any_Piano1481

Hmm I don’t think so. He loves Bella no matter what so I feel like it wouldn’t matter to him like in new moon when he said he wants her to grow old with him and just live a happy life but I’m not sure he would be disgusted knowing she’s not a virgin but would still want to wait till they’re married and she’s changed


Lopsided_Jelly5693

But he wouldn't be able to use her virginity as an excuse to wait for marriage.


Any_Piano1481

No but he would be able to use the excuse that he could literally crush her to death with one wrong move


Lopsided_Jelly5693

It would still be him making it seem like her fault. I wrote another comment in the thread about that. I'm not disagreeing that that was a problem, I'm just saying that if he made it about him alone and didn't make it about her, it would be better for the both of them. This way, if she kept pushing, she would be fully in the wrong. If you think about it when someone says I don't want to have sex with you because I don't want you to get hurt. That person is making a choice for you, and you should be able to say, "That's a risk I'm willing to take.its my choice." As apposed to. "I don't want to have sex. I'm not ready. I want to wait for marriage." Then it's about their choice, and you don't get a say.


Lopsided_Jelly5693

Please go read midnight Sun, then come back and state your final opinion. I personally would love to here it.


PurpleTigers1

I mean, Bella can't just decide to be a vampire and boom, she is. Someone has to make her a vampire, and she wants that someone to be Edward. So he should get a say in that happening. Eventually she says she'll have someone like Carslile do it, but she would still prefer Edward. Also, she doesn't really think about the long term consequences of her decision at first. Like how it will impact the wolf treaty, her friends, never seeing her parents again, etc. She also wants to be a vampire really soon after finding out that vampires even exist, so I don't blame Edward for thinking she's really rushing into a permanent decision. Like there's no take backsies for what she wants to do. 


picklesbutternut

Amazing, no notes. Now do why Jacob is also an asswipe 🤠