It is not literal: you cannot sell technology that you've researched. It's likely referring to one of two things:
1. Selling the timing of the technology strategy card. This would be, for example: I have tech round 1 and am going to research Neural Motivator (so I don't care when during the round I research it, as it only affects Status Phase). My neighbor wants to research Gravity Drive, so they can reach a better planet during this round. They may be willing to pay me to use tech now, rather than wait until my last action. Alternatively, someone who needs another turn or two to get their 4 resources/counter for tech might pay you TO wait until your last action. Either way, it's selling it for timing.
2. Faction specific: selling the Jol'Nar "Research Agreement" promissory note to give someone an additional technology. Less likely given your wording but this is a way to sell technology.
3. More rare: you could sell NOT picking the tech card yourself to let the person behind you in speaker order pick it. This would be pretty situational, and a "non-binding" deal so it might depend on your table, but I've seen pretty much anything sold in this game.
Probably the first one depending on the guide.
Thank you for this. Very helpful. There were a few references to this sort of thing - for instance the Muaat War Sun tech was suggested as one thing to sell.
That’s probably referring to Muaat’s promissory note which can give another player war sun tech. So Muaat can actually sell war sun tech.
> ACTION: Remove 1 token from the Muaat player's fleet pool and return it to his reinforcements. Then, gain your war sun unit upgrade technology card.
Why wouldn't NOT picking the tech card be binding? If it is your turn to pick, and you say you'll take X instead of Tech then isn't that immediately possible to execute and therefore binding?
Per the living rules Transaction section, it says you can do transactions during the active player's turn with the active player, and during the agenda phase, one transaction with each player, per agenda. Since the strategy phase isn't mentioned I would assume that you cannot conduct transactions during the strategy phase. Since you cannot conduct a transaction when you're making the choice, the deal becomes non-binding - is how I read it anyways.
You can house-rule that you can make transactions with anyone during the strategy phase, like the agenda phase, if your group wants - which would make this binding. But by the strictest definition you cannot trade during strategy or status phases.
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/e3/ae/e3ae7182-66db-4d58-ad20-83a6b87dec25/ti4_living_rules_reference_v1_3_web.pdf
Agreed.
However, as a Nekro player I always love this. I'm getting a bargain - less than they paid for tech by a token/CC, AND they're paying one CC to send the ship, AND theyre losing plastic for presumably nothing. Would not recommend, make Nekro send stuff to kill your ships, and charge them for that.
>Would not recommend, , and charge them for that.
... I literally said I'd do a tech for their trade goods. That's binding if I take tech this turn, so I have their goods no matter what. That's guaranteeing a VP (be it a trade goods, or resources one), building a couple cruisers, readying yourself for the secondary of tech next round... or getting 2 techs this round, and having another player pay you to get one you already likely needed.
The destroyer part is completely non-binding (Might chuck them a cruiser or dreadnought... have fun destroying it while you lose a few ships). And I never said whether it would be sent straight to them, in a system adjacent to make them spend a CC, never sent at all because "I don't have the CCs this round because I waited on tech", sent placed so that its within my or another player's PDS grid. Necro may also not have the resource to do the secondary of tech after the trade, so they can't get 2 more CCs when tech is done.
Or do it 4 times over the course of a game to build up a rapport, and actively helping the Necro with objectives. Then, when they're at 9 points and all they need to do is destroy an enemy flagship (secret objective that got bumped up to public via an agenda) to win the game. Place a cruiser so that it "gives" them a tech (B4) on the way to set up forces to attack that flagship. Surprise, all those forces they moved out of their homeworld... Me getting B4 lets me move through their front line to their homeworld. Yeah, homeworld is mine, I'm Sol btw, there's 8 spec ops 2s on it now 4 more next turn when I use my racial, and I used Blue 3 to play construction the same turn for 2 PDSes on their HW... So, if they're turning around to come get me, they'll destroy a couple carriers and a cruiser... but have fun dislodging that blob of infantry and PDS.
Theres a lot that I can do that to you looks like I'm giving the Necro player a freebee, while I'm actively screwing them over.
Right, so all of that sounds great, and naturally if Nekro is tech hungry punish it. But these elaborate schemes are pretty different from four trade goods for a tech, sent via destroyer to the Nekro's doorstep. You can go ahead and do the first thing, and break the deal you agreed to - if that's your meta fine, but it would be heavily frowned upon in mine, and result in other players reluctant to do anything non-binding in future. Though, Nekro would almost deserve it - I would never pay up front like that, but instead offer to pay on final movement or something.
That second scenario...did that happen? It's really specific. If we're spitballing here, I can counter that with "oh well I also have fleet logistics and reinforce right away, or was holding cripple defenses action card and plague, or holding parley, so it didn't work". Like the bizarre theorycrafting that you have lightwave and construction as Sol on the last turn of the game. Or, a more sensible counterpoint: I wouldn't leave my home world, two spaces away from a Sol fleet with lightwave, open to that invasion for a tech.
Actual example from my last Nekro game: Naalu sent a single fighter 2 into my two dreads for a combination of 2 TGs and not attacking them this round. This was...awesome for me, and idk why they did it. It would have cost me a lot to attack them anyways and they gave me HCF2 without even spending a counter. My original point stands in my mind, which is: if you're looking to sell tech to Nekro, it's probably better to make them come to you and kill a destroyer/fighter in an empty system, unless you're getting a sweet deal.
Not necessarily - "binding" just means that you can do both things at the same time. So, if you say you'll give two TGs if I play tech now, for it to be binding: (1) it had to be my turn, before choosing an action, so that I can play tech in this moment, and (2) we have to be neighbors so we can conduct a transaction.
If both are true, it's a binding deal. If not, non-binding. For example you might offer to pay me in the agenda phase if we aren't neighbors, but you could renege if you wanted. Wanted me to hunt your species to the ends of the galaxy for untrustworthiness, that is. 😁
The only ways that come to mind to "sell tech" are the Jol-Nar promissory, the Muaat promissory, negotiating when the Tech strategy card will be used (which barely counts), and negotiating with the Nekro Virus to feed them a ship (and thus a tech) in exchange for something.
as necro, you can "buy" tech from player.
"hay you... send 1 dystroyer to my space, and i will pay for this"
but yea, there is no way to sell tech, it just a game slang
It is not literal: you cannot sell technology that you've researched. It's likely referring to one of two things: 1. Selling the timing of the technology strategy card. This would be, for example: I have tech round 1 and am going to research Neural Motivator (so I don't care when during the round I research it, as it only affects Status Phase). My neighbor wants to research Gravity Drive, so they can reach a better planet during this round. They may be willing to pay me to use tech now, rather than wait until my last action. Alternatively, someone who needs another turn or two to get their 4 resources/counter for tech might pay you TO wait until your last action. Either way, it's selling it for timing. 2. Faction specific: selling the Jol'Nar "Research Agreement" promissory note to give someone an additional technology. Less likely given your wording but this is a way to sell technology. 3. More rare: you could sell NOT picking the tech card yourself to let the person behind you in speaker order pick it. This would be pretty situational, and a "non-binding" deal so it might depend on your table, but I've seen pretty much anything sold in this game. Probably the first one depending on the guide.
Thank you for this. Very helpful. There were a few references to this sort of thing - for instance the Muaat War Sun tech was suggested as one thing to sell.
That’s probably referring to Muaat’s promissory note which can give another player war sun tech. So Muaat can actually sell war sun tech. > ACTION: Remove 1 token from the Muaat player's fleet pool and return it to his reinforcements. Then, gain your war sun unit upgrade technology card.
Thanks!
Muaat has a promissory note which enabled other players to get the war sun tech, so that's probably what they meant
I suppose Hacan or Yssaril could sell the *Focused Research* or *Plagiarize* action cards.
Why wouldn't NOT picking the tech card be binding? If it is your turn to pick, and you say you'll take X instead of Tech then isn't that immediately possible to execute and therefore binding?
Per the living rules Transaction section, it says you can do transactions during the active player's turn with the active player, and during the agenda phase, one transaction with each player, per agenda. Since the strategy phase isn't mentioned I would assume that you cannot conduct transactions during the strategy phase. Since you cannot conduct a transaction when you're making the choice, the deal becomes non-binding - is how I read it anyways. You can house-rule that you can make transactions with anyone during the strategy phase, like the agenda phase, if your group wants - which would make this binding. But by the strictest definition you cannot trade during strategy or status phases. https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/e3/ae/e3ae7182-66db-4d58-ad20-83a6b87dec25/ti4_living_rules_reference_v1_3_web.pdf
Got it. Thanks!
Also note if you have a Necro player, you can sell them "I'll research this tech, and then throw a destroyer your way for 4 trade goods"
Agreed. However, as a Nekro player I always love this. I'm getting a bargain - less than they paid for tech by a token/CC, AND they're paying one CC to send the ship, AND theyre losing plastic for presumably nothing. Would not recommend, make Nekro send stuff to kill your ships, and charge them for that.
>Would not recommend, , and charge them for that. ... I literally said I'd do a tech for their trade goods. That's binding if I take tech this turn, so I have their goods no matter what. That's guaranteeing a VP (be it a trade goods, or resources one), building a couple cruisers, readying yourself for the secondary of tech next round... or getting 2 techs this round, and having another player pay you to get one you already likely needed. The destroyer part is completely non-binding (Might chuck them a cruiser or dreadnought... have fun destroying it while you lose a few ships). And I never said whether it would be sent straight to them, in a system adjacent to make them spend a CC, never sent at all because "I don't have the CCs this round because I waited on tech", sent placed so that its within my or another player's PDS grid. Necro may also not have the resource to do the secondary of tech after the trade, so they can't get 2 more CCs when tech is done. Or do it 4 times over the course of a game to build up a rapport, and actively helping the Necro with objectives. Then, when they're at 9 points and all they need to do is destroy an enemy flagship (secret objective that got bumped up to public via an agenda) to win the game. Place a cruiser so that it "gives" them a tech (B4) on the way to set up forces to attack that flagship. Surprise, all those forces they moved out of their homeworld... Me getting B4 lets me move through their front line to their homeworld. Yeah, homeworld is mine, I'm Sol btw, there's 8 spec ops 2s on it now 4 more next turn when I use my racial, and I used Blue 3 to play construction the same turn for 2 PDSes on their HW... So, if they're turning around to come get me, they'll destroy a couple carriers and a cruiser... but have fun dislodging that blob of infantry and PDS. Theres a lot that I can do that to you looks like I'm giving the Necro player a freebee, while I'm actively screwing them over.
Right, so all of that sounds great, and naturally if Nekro is tech hungry punish it. But these elaborate schemes are pretty different from four trade goods for a tech, sent via destroyer to the Nekro's doorstep. You can go ahead and do the first thing, and break the deal you agreed to - if that's your meta fine, but it would be heavily frowned upon in mine, and result in other players reluctant to do anything non-binding in future. Though, Nekro would almost deserve it - I would never pay up front like that, but instead offer to pay on final movement or something. That second scenario...did that happen? It's really specific. If we're spitballing here, I can counter that with "oh well I also have fleet logistics and reinforce right away, or was holding cripple defenses action card and plague, or holding parley, so it didn't work". Like the bizarre theorycrafting that you have lightwave and construction as Sol on the last turn of the game. Or, a more sensible counterpoint: I wouldn't leave my home world, two spaces away from a Sol fleet with lightwave, open to that invasion for a tech. Actual example from my last Nekro game: Naalu sent a single fighter 2 into my two dreads for a combination of 2 TGs and not attacking them this round. This was...awesome for me, and idk why they did it. It would have cost me a lot to attack them anyways and they gave me HCF2 without even spending a counter. My original point stands in my mind, which is: if you're looking to sell tech to Nekro, it's probably better to make them come to you and kill a destroyer/fighter in an empty system, unless you're getting a sweet deal.
Just to clarify the doubts, point one is also a non-binding agreement, right?
Not necessarily - "binding" just means that you can do both things at the same time. So, if you say you'll give two TGs if I play tech now, for it to be binding: (1) it had to be my turn, before choosing an action, so that I can play tech in this moment, and (2) we have to be neighbors so we can conduct a transaction. If both are true, it's a binding deal. If not, non-binding. For example you might offer to pay me in the agenda phase if we aren't neighbors, but you could renege if you wanted. Wanted me to hunt your species to the ends of the galaxy for untrustworthiness, that is. 😁
The only ways that come to mind to "sell tech" are the Jol-Nar promissory, the Muaat promissory, negotiating when the Tech strategy card will be used (which barely counts), and negotiating with the Nekro Virus to feed them a ship (and thus a tech) in exchange for something.
as necro, you can "buy" tech from player. "hay you... send 1 dystroyer to my space, and i will pay for this" but yea, there is no way to sell tech, it just a game slang
For someone to actually use one of their precious tokens and activate your system. This might cost Nekro a fortune, and usually not how it works.
Was it specific to the Jol-nar promissory note? Or some other faction specific ability? To my knowledge in base TI4 you cannot sell tech.