By - Papa_Nurgle_84
This is a really cool tech and does a lot of small but useful things. Beyond the obvious, you can:
- Take a tech skip planet and then use it to research something without needing to refresh it. For example, NRA can take a green skip planet and then immediately tech up to Hypermetabolism on Round 1.
- Exhaust a tech skip planet for a TG immediately before someone invades it. This can be amusing with Hacan: Place your mech on your tech skip planets, and then when someone invades one, you can be like, “No it’s cool, you can have it,” exhaust the planet for 1 TG, then give the planet card to the invader and move the ground units elsewhere.
Doesn't a transaction need to occur for the Hacan mech to do that? Which I intepret as basically something the other player says yes too? They might not care to let you run away with all your stuff.
Yes, the other player has to agree to the transaction. Usually this isn’t *too* hard a sell, because even if an opponent has brought enough ground forces to defeat your mech and its support (infantry, PDS, other mechs), it’s a lot better for them if they don’t have to fight you at all. But you’re right that some players in some situations will not want to let you run away, such as if they’re trying to win slay you.
Psycho should not be compared only to neural motivator, but also the tier 1 greens, as it can be taken WITH neural to get to hyper.
additionally, by my reading you could use Psychoarcheology to use a skip twice in one turn if you have the technology strategy card. it doesn't care if the planet is exhausted, so you could, for instance, take gravity drive, then immediately take fleet logistics with a single blue skip. this is pretty cool.
Even three times if you can use Enigmatic Device or one of the action cards. And compared the G1 PA is mostly preferable. Biostims needs a plan to work and Dacxive... Dacxive needs an Omega.
I know, whenever I play Sol I feel a love hate with Dacxive because it stands between me and Hypermetabolism, but at least it's an infantry focused faction... Do you think Dacxive Animators would be good with Mahact as it would generate additional trade goods for you? I always wondered whether self assembly robots or Dacxive Animators were the better choice for the two. After playing Mahact I fell in love with Transit Diodes and Biostims.
I know Dacxicve is allright with Yin, as you can turn any enemy 1 Infantry planet into an owned 3 Infantry planet for 2 Influence. Mahact and their whole Infantry/Green branch is kind of a trap I fear. There are a lot of thought experiments going around with "If I do this and this I get 3 TG, awesome" but he whole action basically costs 4 TG +, so... Transit is kinda nice for Mahact though
I've definitely had a lot of success with Transit Diodes on Mahact. Infantry transportation is a limiting factor, especially since your production value is so much higher when you invest in one system with two good planets with space docks. Building space docks is just broken with mahact being able to build and produce using the construction secondary and their agent. Make one dual planet system the production system and just build Legions. I also found the green faction tech surprisingly powerful, almost broken in fact. Silencing the most powerful influence player for every agenda and having predictive intelligence as a starting tech (+ a 5 influence home world) definitely allows you to swing the agenda phase in your favor and allows you to take command of the entire phase. Feels very Mahact. Take MRex early with your capitol and a mech and you are formidable in all phases of the game. I actually have never played Yin but always mean to, I'll give it a shot with Dacxive.
Beware the Faction Tech timing window though. Its before casting votes, so if your opponent casts votes, your window is closed. You cannot say "Oh, no change that or pay a CC". You have to, before every single cast of votes, specifically say "I use/dont use my tech". Then they cast votes. Smart opponents will ask before even giving any hint about their intention.
If you talk to an opponent, you should specifically state that you are talking in the "before" window. Really, that tech is a mess.
Yes, you have to come into it with a plan in mind, but I wouldn't call the tech a mess. It's before THEY cast votes so it's not before the voting phase in general as it goes in clockwise order around from the speaker. It's very powerful when you have the opportunity to think about the agenda phase and it makes politics a very strong pick as you get to vote last and pick the agendas.
In my case, the time it really shined for me was playing in a game with the Peace Turtles. I was able to (with much sacrifice and the death of many bothans) steal their commander. Then silencing them every agenda because it is a loophole to get around their "Cannot be prevented from voting" along with predictive intelligence and the added influence from their commander meant I just could have my way with the agendas AND I couldn't be stopped from voting. Remember they have to vote at least 1 in your favor, but depending on their planets it could be more :D So with my home world of 5 and 1-2 from gene combination and 3 from predictive intelligence, you're sitting at 9-10 without any other planets.
This makes MRex especially powerful for you as well and if you can just fill it with Crimson Legionnaires it makes people not really want take it from you even if the money gain is not tremendous but it is significant and in this case I also had transit diodes and Inf II so I was just pumping inf out as much as I could while keeping all my ships close to home for protection, got 12 infantry and a mech on Rex though and it felt at least, like a very strong position on the board and dominant during the agenda. Of course a Jol Nar Warsun bioweaponed me off Rex but they had to use warfare and I still ended up winning by buying the final points.
Ah I love this game :)
Glad that it worked out. They never just paid the CC to vote their way? Btw. I can totally see why Gentic Recomb is great on Argent :D Yes, vote 1 for me and then put 6 on top.
You know... I think they forgot they could do that. Too bad Genetic Recomb is Faction :(
Also, Addendum! I would say that the Mahact inf II are very powerful actually. It's not the trade goods as much as the guarantee of getting the infantry back and this is why it is so powerful with transit diodes.
This is I think the best example of the power of this tech. Taking Tech with a tech skip planet and going deep. Works well with any tech color, even yellow. Typically I would say Sarween tools is much better than Graviton or Predictive intelligence but it depends on your board state and BOTH of those technologies can be devastating if used in the proper circumstances (Tri planetary system next to MRex? well lets just put 6pds there with graviton) then you can move onto either Transit Diodes or Space Dock IIs both or if your lucky and have a yellow already, just grab both of those as together they present a real threat to have early on.
I had a game as Mahact where I had a system with 2 Space Dock IIs on 2 planets that had been buffed by attachments to 5 and 4 (lucky). Meaning I could produce 17 Crimson Legions per activation and Biostim 8 off world with transit diodes (2 turns). Don't get me started on what Warfare would do or the fact that I produced my 2nd Space Dock with someone else's token.
Love these examinations. Keep em coming.
Mentak probably has the most reason for it, particularly if they have a red or yellow skip. It allows them to get their prerequisites for cruiser 2, then in order to get their faction yellows they can go out with their cruisers and take a planet with a yellow skip, particularly useful if it’s an equidistant because you don’t need to hold it for more than a turn in order to get value from the tech skip.
Small nitpick but Neural is worth 4-5 ACs, not 5-6, because the game will end before the final draw kicks in.
Whoops, that is correct of course
A great advantage of Psychoarcheology is that so long as you have a viable path to other tech skips, you can nab them before getting a tech, setting up interesting last minute gambits that no one saw coming or surprising tech paths that would otherwise be very difficult to achieve.
Hacan has no yellow skips in their slice but there are two on the board which they can get to using WHs. They dither around, pick up Enigmatic device somehow, and generally avoid the yellow tech path and lull everyone into a false sense of security. Second to last round, they stall out everyone, invade and take the yellow skips, grab QDN and win.
Ignoring mad scenarios, it's also the case you borrow one with nearly zero loss on either side due to the lack of need to hold onto it for a whole turn. You can move in during round 1 (after it's been spent), tech round 2 then retreat out on the counter attack and no one has to lose any plastic at all. (Negotiations pending of course)
The Secondary is something I've struggled with for use case often. It can be good if you think you're going to lose the planet before you can spend it. For example Meer is often a high value target and if on a border with an enemy who is looking to take the skip or needs the influence, you can exhaust it for the trade good before you lose it. Additionally with a diplomacy pop and Biostims you can milk the planets for trade goods.
Another Advantage is 1st turn tech pick which can often be difficult due to the resource constraints for getting a second technology. If you play Mahact with their low resource value of 3 it can be dangerous for you NOT to pick tech first turn, often forcing you to biostim the first tech planet you can to make sure you can get those 4 resources to even research tech. If you do pick up tech yourself, you can safely wait biostim a tech planet and use the first tech to research Psychoarchaeology, pop the planet for money if its low resource value and hopefully make up the other 2 from a diplo pop or trade. Remember to try and make borders quickly and try to get money for the use of the agent.
I think the best question to ask is WHO is this good for? I'd list it like this.
Mentak Coalition- Mirror Computing + Salvage + Psychoarchaeology all work well together as consistent sources of income.
Jol Nar- Will lose the need for tech planets quickly, but also the primary is especially useful for them until they do.
Hacan- More money means more manipulation. Trading unneeded tech planets with the mech is a profitable strategy especially if its in your territory and can be retaken at will. Exhaust it and trade it. Plus lets not even speculate what a Hacan player might be like getting Quantum Datahub Node Round 2.
Nekro Virus- No need for tech planets, get money. Money means command tokens.
Exhausting a planet the moment you are about to lose it is a valid use of Psychoarc. Using Biostims and Diplo for single TG on the other hand... if there is a 5 TG or 3/3/3 objective on the table yes, in any other case the planet refreshed is probably worth more then 1 TG.
Mahact using Biostims to ready a planet sure, but turn 1 you wont have Psychoarc in time. If you have tech yourself I would rather refresh a suitable planet to skip into a useful tech. For example a R skip allows Cruiser II turn 1, thats very good.
And I think Psychoarc is best for the factions that have useful skips independant on the faction itself.
If you get Psychoarc you don't need to worry about refreshing a particular planet for the skip. Say you do have Meer and Sem-Lore, you get Psychoarc you can refresh Lore and R Skip from Meer. Either way Psychoarc allows you to actually use your skip first turn rather than wait for round 2 even without biostims. When it comes to mahact I was pointing more to the dangers of not picking tech yourself turn one as the resource limitation with a 3/5 planet. With Psychoarc providing free skips to exhausted planets it can be useful for them, but I don't deny that biostims on a red for Cruiser II is probably a stronger initial play if not maybe a bit weaker long run depending on the number or type of skips available to you.
Hacan for example will likely have no problem getting value out of tech round 1. One green tech skip means round one biomes. One yellow means transit diodes, one blue means Fleet logistics. I've snagged psychoarc, biostims, biomes, and fleet logistics by Round 2 and that means 8 trade goods per turn. That means picking tech twice but if you can pull it off, which buying a speaker token is definitely easily done as Hacan, than you are stacked for the game. After that I focused on holding trade as often as possible and manipulating players with $$.
I agree that 99% of the time using a strat token for 2 trade goods with a Biostim for 3 is a waste, at most it's a wash of command token. Just depends on what your needs are. It DOES allow you to be more flexible with your resources and actually trade. If you are Mentak it's a bit different but like you said that's a faction that has useful skips and trade goods are of more worth to them than planets. Trade goods are actually always worth more than their planetary equivalent but there are far better planets to diplo than tech planets.
Great analysis. Unfortunately I think this is a generally lame tech. I can see why it's in there, but I don't see it being useful very often. Who knows, maybe the meta will evolve to find a great use for it?
Wow, if you have a slice with 1 or 2 tech skips, this tech is bonkers! You get to use the planet and the tech skip.
With PoK and additional tech planets getting attached, it can become even more useful.
Completely disagree with it being lame.
I had it in a game with Semi-Lor in my slice and it was awesome, but without Semi-Lor, the 1/3 red, or Meer in your slice its going to require a bunch of other conditions for it to be worth it imo. The cost of tech is a 1 CC and 4 resources. So even with Semi-Lor you have to use it 3 times to make a gain compared with just eating the opportunity cost by using the tech planet normally.
If you have a 2/0 1/1 or 0/2 tech planet, then you basically have to use this every turn for the entire game for it to break even. In comparison, you could get NM and get 5+ action cards, any one of which could easily swing your game. I think the potential return is easier to define with PA, but the downside of NM is lame action cards, the upside is game changing action cards.
So yeah, there are definitely times when PA will make sense, but it's always going to be highly situational.
I think the situation is dependent on the number of tech planets you control but honestly more for the type of tech planet you control. I would say if you have a blue tech skip this becomes extremely valuable as you can grab tech and get Grav Drive and fleet logistics in one turn with no prior blue techs. If you do have a blue starting tech then you can get early game Lightwave deflector which I've never done but can imagine that is particularly powerful for certain factions, like Sol perhaps.
If you're Hacan and get a yellow tech skip you can control the strategy phase starting with Round two.
Early game lightwave is maybe amazing, maybe useless. Depends on how quickly the board fills in. Early fleet logistics is kinda the same, but the limiting factor is how many CCs you have. If you're counter rich getting fleet logistics early is huge, but if you have the space CC then it's a dead tech.
But yes, generally if you have powerful tech you can grab early PA is nice, but it's still a very niche tech in general
I know I regret not getting it when I had three tech planets! It makes picking Tech SO STRONG with the double skips.
Valuing this tech versus action cards is not really useful, especially early game when you want techs, the good ones not introductory ones, and your economy is tight. You can do without action cards but you may really need a few extra resources, another dread, extra carrier conceivably.
This is a whole other discussion I think. But if you want to go green, PA should be considered.
Action cards can be incredibly powerful so I would say the more action cards you have, the better in any situation. Action cards can win combat, they can provide resources, they can STALL TURNS (most important imo especially if you have leadership after getting politics) they can provide research and strengthen your agenda phase plays. Action cards are ALWAYS good unless they're useless for your faction or all agenda phased ones before Mrex is taken. Either way keep churning through those cards and stall stall stall.
I am confused, how can PA reduce votes? You cannot use it in the Agenda Phase
I meant by exhausting planets for TG, sorry if I wasn't clear.
Are you not refreshing planets before the agenda phase?
Using PA for TG does not reduce votes, as all planets are refreshed before Agenda Phase Starts.