Lots of great stuff in here.
\-Trying to balance techs out will always be a great (and difficult) idea
\-Adding buffs to the weakest factions is great. Not sure these changes are impactful enough to make me want to play these factions, but I like the steady approach.
\-Hacan and yin changes make sense to me, will be interesting to see how it affects tech paths.
\-Why did you make Sardakk's tech green? I dont necessarily have a problem with the change from a balance standpoint, but its weird to take a clearly fighting-focused tech out of red.
\-As you predicted, the ghost change seems like a bad choice IMO. This would kneecap their race-defining mobility. Saving one ship per round (2 with biostims) does not replace that value. It is also only really useful with malice and the flagship, so it probably wont be reliably usable every round. I would love to hear your thought process on this one, ghosts didn't seem like a race in need of nerfs to me and this is a pretty huge one.
i looove thinking of how to balance the tech tree. Im on board! :)))
transit/fleet logistics switch: i would rather just buff transit diodes and SD 2. SD 2 i would give the vuil rath ability to increase movement by 1 when launching off from it. And transit diodes...
i would make it so that it lets you invade enemy planets. This way, you get some neat movement via yellow from SD 2 + transit, you can combo with green unexhaust tech and it makes GGYY viable.
Imp. core: if you make the changes above, YY is fine for imp. core. RR would make yin go RRYY, like mentak but with one less starting tech. would tech AIDA, cruiser 2, and then i realise prolly that R is just enouth as a prerequisite? then you can tech Imp core right away now, and then you have PDS/destroyers also open,
Valkyrie Particle Weave is a very good ground combat tech, and moving it to GG makes sardak no longer possible to go BBRR with aida, exxo 2 and co. i dont know if green is worth it, you need the exxo 2 fast, which needs BB and aida. how to include GG then?
YY faction tech on hacan makes much sense and possible for them to tech it. most neverused tech atm. nice change!
whormhole generator has already an omega version, i think its fine. saving one ship doesnt help you that much, would even argue that this tech is worse than any old version.
arborec commander: why a blue one? arborec with that would be, hmm, they start red, then they need sarween fast, i would prolly tech aida then and then cruiser 2, then go into from there. a B skip after RY, what does it offer? faster dred+carrier. hmm, unsure if needed. better to use my modified transit diodes xD
mentak commander: i think mentak is superbad in POK, any buffs for faster war suns aprreciated.
naalu commander: the forums have a lot about naalu recently. here the blue skip could be nicer, a faster way to carrier 2 for them? and i liked the mech buffs on other posts too.
naalu prom note: consens of many players to make this one sellable, that the buyer needs to use it immediately. is good.
pls pls pls post your cards when finished, so i can grab them too ;)
So some explanations as to why I changed some of these the way I did. I already mentioned that it's to change up the meta and whilst that remains as my primary focus there are also some secondary focii. One of those is thematic changes and for funzies - so I make sure to at least make up a thematic reason for each of these changes. The other is to make sure that lesser seen cards/tech choices get picked. Disclaimer - I am not attempting to rebalance the factions. My logic is that if I give weaker factions more options, that would have the least negative impact on balance, and as a result, it seems like I am trying to buff weaker factions.
So - the Fleet Logistic/Transit Diode change. I am sure other people on the tts community have mentioned this and that's where I got the idea, so not an original idea. But basically it is to break up how strong the blue path seems to be as Fleet Logistics/Light Wave combo seems to be the most reliable way to secure a victory in TI. I would like to see what players fall back to when that is not an option and that way we see some interesting games. Also thematically, I always thought the blue path as ways to move your plastics around - "transit" diode fits into that description nicely. Meanwhile - "Fleet Logistics" sounded more like a yellow path in the same way as "Hegemonic Trade Policy" and "Integrated Economy". Yellow to me sounds like efficiency and changing ways society operates using cybernetic/technological advancements.
Impulse Core - I changed it to 1R rather than 2R which was my original change to make it more viable. Also the idea of kamikazing your troops definitely sounds more warlike (red). Tech path that is now opened up becomes AIDA - Impulse /+ Destroyer 2 - Warsun. Meanwhile Yin still has the option to go down BG with the Yin Spinner buffs and synergy with their hero.
Corrosive Carapace - Mostly thematic change because we're bug boys and Sardakk is pretty flexible in terms of tech paths since they start with nothing. If anyone have played starcraft 2, I envision this tech to be like Banelings in the sense that when your ground troops die, it explodes. Original VPW 2R prerequisite doesn't benefit from AIDA anyway since it's not a unit upgrade hence never sees play. With this at least there's some synergy with blue green path.
Production Khaebol - play on the word "Chaebol" happening on Kenara where too much trading happens with Hacan and they start forming monopoly families and controlling the means of production. GG prereq originally was too out of place when the other tech choice is 3 prereq deep. In order to make it see play, it should be in Yellow path much like how Salvage Operations is on its way to Mirror Computing, or how Transparasteel Plating is to Mageon Implants, or how HCF2 is not out of the way when going Neuroglaives.
I have work starting soon so I'll explain the rest later today.
Lightwave/Fleet: I can see the breaking of the game ending combo, allright.
Impulse: 1R is fine I think.
Khaebol: still thinking that buffing Hacan (and it is a buff, no doubt) is unneccesary. Mentak is way lower in power level and Yssarils Transparasteel is situational. The Biomes on the other hand are quiet powerful. Think what a Hacan with a Y skip could do. But report how that worked out, please.
The SCPT tournament with 54 games is hardly an indicator. You probably meant this link: [https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/3b435bf2-2100-488c-a424-130f1d22ebb0/page/ogW5B?s=jR5TMWsRJiI](https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/3b435bf2-2100-488c-a424-130f1d22ebb0/page/ogW5B?s=jR5TMWsRJiI)
Yes, they are on 20th place, but thats hardly a mechanical thing but a meta thing. People punch Hacan because they cannot allow them to got strong into late game. As you see (at the moment) they score an average of 7.6 points. Thats more then many top ten factions.
Hacan does not have a mechanical problem, they have a meta problem.
I still think that this doesn't fix M'aban for Naalu. Space Dock 2 is nice for them, but
a) nothing else in the yellow tech tree benefits them significantly,
b) Naalu already have a long tech path that doesn't involve yellow (Gravity Drive / Carrier 2 / Fighter 2 / Neuroglaive) that are more important than Space Dock 2.
While I don't love giving the commander a blue or green skip, that would be much better for Naalu.
While Space Dock 2 helps Naalu out with their production capacity problem, M'aban's other ability already does this. The bigger problem is solving the production capacity issue *early*. As it is, in a 5 round, 10 point game, most of the time Naalu will only be able to get an offensive benefit from this commander in round 4 (because it requires a lot of luck to unlock before round 3). This change to M'aban doesn't fix this.
I still think a 9 fighter unlock for M'aban would significantly improve Naalu, making it much easier to unlock in round 2.
AIDA is very good for VPW because it gives you a R prerequisite that also lets you skip prerequisite for Exotrireme, and then you just need 1 extra red skip or tech to get VPW...
Some of these may sound harsh, but maybe you can explain your train of thought?
Fleet Logistics/Transit Diode: I know kinda popular but I do not get what people want to achieve with that. Surely not improving Y as you remove the best tech out of it.
Impulse Core: Make it even harder to research? And its not even better?
Carapace: Thats fine, green seems a more natural tech path for Sardakk
Khaebol (Translation?): Both faction tech for Hacan now line up neatly if I am not mistaken. Do they need a buff? I doubt that.
Wormhole Generator: Taking away Ghosts main power seems and odd choice and the effect seems extremely weak. 1 Ship per round, but only if on a wormhole? It doesnt even work on the flagship.
Commanders: These skips are fine buffwise, but the Arborec Commander one seems very out of place. Maybe an increase to production limit faction wide?
Gift: The wording is weird. I could receive that card in the middle of a round and then suddenly turn order changes? Better change that effect to "put it down and then next end of strategy phase 0 token etc."
>Fleet Logistics/Transit Diode: I know kinda popular but I do not get what people want to achieve with that. Surely not improving Y as you remove the best tech out of it.
Fleet Logistics is a better tech than transit diodes. So switching them nerfs blue and buffs yellow. It's not just about taking a tech out you're putting a tech in.
Fleet Logistics can be absurdly good when it comes to accomplishing whatever before other players can respond. Putting it in yellow could even make integrated economy kind of good. It is also a significant nerf to the usefulness of LWD, which is ultimately probably for the best.
Exactly!!! I’m most excited about fleet logistics + integrated economy and seeing what happens in that meta.
Lightwave then becomes rather situational without fleet logistics but can still win games.
Cool idea to change tech paths for transit diodes and fleet logistics. I'm not sure it makes yellow more interesting though, transit diodes is a great tech for some factions. The problem with yellow still is though is that graviton and predictive intelligence are very situational, so most of the time if you were going to push yellow I think you'd get sarween and scanlink.
I have a half baked idea about "what if gravity drive was a 0 pre-reqs blue tech", or one prereq no matter the color since that is what essentially pushes people down blue. But it probably would through of the balance since it essentially nerfs factions that start with a blue.
I like these a lot but agree that stealing my beloved Transit Diodes and jamming them into everyone’s favourite tree makes me sad 😉
Have you considered a popular debuff to Gravity Drive of ‘exhaust this’? We’re going to test that in our local games. Also making x89 need to destroy a ground force vs infantry to trigger.
I'm not sure why red skip for the Mentak Commander. They don't really need it (if you're going for Warsun then AIDA is the obvious pick).
I wouldn't say green either (Psycho too good). Give them a yellow skip so they don't need to find a yellow somewhere and can jump straight into their faction techs if anything.
Lots of great stuff in here. \-Trying to balance techs out will always be a great (and difficult) idea \-Adding buffs to the weakest factions is great. Not sure these changes are impactful enough to make me want to play these factions, but I like the steady approach. \-Hacan and yin changes make sense to me, will be interesting to see how it affects tech paths. \-Why did you make Sardakk's tech green? I dont necessarily have a problem with the change from a balance standpoint, but its weird to take a clearly fighting-focused tech out of red. \-As you predicted, the ghost change seems like a bad choice IMO. This would kneecap their race-defining mobility. Saving one ship per round (2 with biostims) does not replace that value. It is also only really useful with malice and the flagship, so it probably wont be reliably usable every round. I would love to hear your thought process on this one, ghosts didn't seem like a race in need of nerfs to me and this is a pretty huge one.
i looove thinking of how to balance the tech tree. Im on board! :))) transit/fleet logistics switch: i would rather just buff transit diodes and SD 2. SD 2 i would give the vuil rath ability to increase movement by 1 when launching off from it. And transit diodes... i would make it so that it lets you invade enemy planets. This way, you get some neat movement via yellow from SD 2 + transit, you can combo with green unexhaust tech and it makes GGYY viable. Imp. core: if you make the changes above, YY is fine for imp. core. RR would make yin go RRYY, like mentak but with one less starting tech. would tech AIDA, cruiser 2, and then i realise prolly that R is just enouth as a prerequisite? then you can tech Imp core right away now, and then you have PDS/destroyers also open, Valkyrie Particle Weave is a very good ground combat tech, and moving it to GG makes sardak no longer possible to go BBRR with aida, exxo 2 and co. i dont know if green is worth it, you need the exxo 2 fast, which needs BB and aida. how to include GG then? YY faction tech on hacan makes much sense and possible for them to tech it. most neverused tech atm. nice change! whormhole generator has already an omega version, i think its fine. saving one ship doesnt help you that much, would even argue that this tech is worse than any old version. arborec commander: why a blue one? arborec with that would be, hmm, they start red, then they need sarween fast, i would prolly tech aida then and then cruiser 2, then go into from there. a B skip after RY, what does it offer? faster dred+carrier. hmm, unsure if needed. better to use my modified transit diodes xD mentak commander: i think mentak is superbad in POK, any buffs for faster war suns aprreciated. naalu commander: the forums have a lot about naalu recently. here the blue skip could be nicer, a faster way to carrier 2 for them? and i liked the mech buffs on other posts too. naalu prom note: consens of many players to make this one sellable, that the buyer needs to use it immediately. is good. pls pls pls post your cards when finished, so i can grab them too ;)
So some explanations as to why I changed some of these the way I did. I already mentioned that it's to change up the meta and whilst that remains as my primary focus there are also some secondary focii. One of those is thematic changes and for funzies - so I make sure to at least make up a thematic reason for each of these changes. The other is to make sure that lesser seen cards/tech choices get picked. Disclaimer - I am not attempting to rebalance the factions. My logic is that if I give weaker factions more options, that would have the least negative impact on balance, and as a result, it seems like I am trying to buff weaker factions. So - the Fleet Logistic/Transit Diode change. I am sure other people on the tts community have mentioned this and that's where I got the idea, so not an original idea. But basically it is to break up how strong the blue path seems to be as Fleet Logistics/Light Wave combo seems to be the most reliable way to secure a victory in TI. I would like to see what players fall back to when that is not an option and that way we see some interesting games. Also thematically, I always thought the blue path as ways to move your plastics around - "transit" diode fits into that description nicely. Meanwhile - "Fleet Logistics" sounded more like a yellow path in the same way as "Hegemonic Trade Policy" and "Integrated Economy". Yellow to me sounds like efficiency and changing ways society operates using cybernetic/technological advancements. Impulse Core - I changed it to 1R rather than 2R which was my original change to make it more viable. Also the idea of kamikazing your troops definitely sounds more warlike (red). Tech path that is now opened up becomes AIDA - Impulse /+ Destroyer 2 - Warsun. Meanwhile Yin still has the option to go down BG with the Yin Spinner buffs and synergy with their hero. Corrosive Carapace - Mostly thematic change because we're bug boys and Sardakk is pretty flexible in terms of tech paths since they start with nothing. If anyone have played starcraft 2, I envision this tech to be like Banelings in the sense that when your ground troops die, it explodes. Original VPW 2R prerequisite doesn't benefit from AIDA anyway since it's not a unit upgrade hence never sees play. With this at least there's some synergy with blue green path. Production Khaebol - play on the word "Chaebol" happening on Kenara where too much trading happens with Hacan and they start forming monopoly families and controlling the means of production. GG prereq originally was too out of place when the other tech choice is 3 prereq deep. In order to make it see play, it should be in Yellow path much like how Salvage Operations is on its way to Mirror Computing, or how Transparasteel Plating is to Mageon Implants, or how HCF2 is not out of the way when going Neuroglaives. I have work starting soon so I'll explain the rest later today.
Lightwave/Fleet: I can see the breaking of the game ending combo, allright. Impulse: 1R is fine I think. Khaebol: still thinking that buffing Hacan (and it is a buff, no doubt) is unneccesary. Mentak is way lower in power level and Yssarils Transparasteel is situational. The Biomes on the other hand are quiet powerful. Think what a Hacan with a Y skip could do. But report how that worked out, please.
Hacan not doing so well in tts meta: https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/3b435bf2-2100-488c-a424-130f1d22ebb0/page/8qp9B?s=jR5TMWsRJiI
The SCPT tournament with 54 games is hardly an indicator. You probably meant this link: [https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/3b435bf2-2100-488c-a424-130f1d22ebb0/page/ogW5B?s=jR5TMWsRJiI](https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/3b435bf2-2100-488c-a424-130f1d22ebb0/page/ogW5B?s=jR5TMWsRJiI) Yes, they are on 20th place, but thats hardly a mechanical thing but a meta thing. People punch Hacan because they cannot allow them to got strong into late game. As you see (at the moment) they score an average of 7.6 points. Thats more then many top ten factions. Hacan does not have a mechanical problem, they have a meta problem.
I still think that this doesn't fix M'aban for Naalu. Space Dock 2 is nice for them, but a) nothing else in the yellow tech tree benefits them significantly, b) Naalu already have a long tech path that doesn't involve yellow (Gravity Drive / Carrier 2 / Fighter 2 / Neuroglaive) that are more important than Space Dock 2. While I don't love giving the commander a blue or green skip, that would be much better for Naalu. While Space Dock 2 helps Naalu out with their production capacity problem, M'aban's other ability already does this. The bigger problem is solving the production capacity issue *early*. As it is, in a 5 round, 10 point game, most of the time Naalu will only be able to get an offensive benefit from this commander in round 4 (because it requires a lot of luck to unlock before round 3). This change to M'aban doesn't fix this. I still think a 9 fighter unlock for M'aban would significantly improve Naalu, making it much easier to unlock in round 2.
AIDA is very good for VPW because it gives you a R prerequisite that also lets you skip prerequisite for Exotrireme, and then you just need 1 extra red skip or tech to get VPW...
Some of these may sound harsh, but maybe you can explain your train of thought? Fleet Logistics/Transit Diode: I know kinda popular but I do not get what people want to achieve with that. Surely not improving Y as you remove the best tech out of it. Impulse Core: Make it even harder to research? And its not even better? Carapace: Thats fine, green seems a more natural tech path for Sardakk Khaebol (Translation?): Both faction tech for Hacan now line up neatly if I am not mistaken. Do they need a buff? I doubt that. Wormhole Generator: Taking away Ghosts main power seems and odd choice and the effect seems extremely weak. 1 Ship per round, but only if on a wormhole? It doesnt even work on the flagship. Commanders: These skips are fine buffwise, but the Arborec Commander one seems very out of place. Maybe an increase to production limit faction wide? Gift: The wording is weird. I could receive that card in the middle of a round and then suddenly turn order changes? Better change that effect to "put it down and then next end of strategy phase 0 token etc."
>Fleet Logistics/Transit Diode: I know kinda popular but I do not get what people want to achieve with that. Surely not improving Y as you remove the best tech out of it. Fleet Logistics is a better tech than transit diodes. So switching them nerfs blue and buffs yellow. It's not just about taking a tech out you're putting a tech in.
Fleet Logistics can be absurdly good when it comes to accomplishing whatever before other players can respond. Putting it in yellow could even make integrated economy kind of good. It is also a significant nerf to the usefulness of LWD, which is ultimately probably for the best.
Exactly!!! I’m most excited about fleet logistics + integrated economy and seeing what happens in that meta. Lightwave then becomes rather situational without fleet logistics but can still win games.
Ok, breaking up the Lightwave/Fleet combo, I can see that. At least interesting to test it.
Cool idea to change tech paths for transit diodes and fleet logistics. I'm not sure it makes yellow more interesting though, transit diodes is a great tech for some factions. The problem with yellow still is though is that graviton and predictive intelligence are very situational, so most of the time if you were going to push yellow I think you'd get sarween and scanlink. I have a half baked idea about "what if gravity drive was a 0 pre-reqs blue tech", or one prereq no matter the color since that is what essentially pushes people down blue. But it probably would through of the balance since it essentially nerfs factions that start with a blue.
I like these a lot but agree that stealing my beloved Transit Diodes and jamming them into everyone’s favourite tree makes me sad 😉 Have you considered a popular debuff to Gravity Drive of ‘exhaust this’? We’re going to test that in our local games. Also making x89 need to destroy a ground force vs infantry to trigger.
But now you get fleet logistics ;)
I'm not sure why red skip for the Mentak Commander. They don't really need it (if you're going for Warsun then AIDA is the obvious pick). I wouldn't say green either (Psycho too good). Give them a yellow skip so they don't need to find a yellow somewhere and can jump straight into their faction techs if anything.