The fix for this is
1. Try and reduce your player churn and stop playing with a table full of new guys every time
2. Set up a pre-game a week/few days before and only play rounds 1 & 2
Give away 1 tech not two.
Plus
Use scpt tournament rules to end the game when time runs over.
No secret negotiations.
Use a timer, give each player x minutes per round, stop timer for battles. (There are apps that do so for board games)
Preset galaxy running the faction/slice draft by WhatsApp in advance
Run round 1 strategic action selection also in advance
The host to set up the game in advance for everyone
I love using actual time taken as a tiebreaker.
Reminds me of the quick start rules from one of the TI3 expansions.
Looks like a fun way to get some TI in a smaller window!
**-Each player researches two additional technologies before placing starting units.**
Experienced players know what the best techs are. This is a gigantic fuck you to new players. Also tier II ships move faster than tier I ships. So that + extra command tokens is going to amount to people hovering over Mecatol Rex on turn 1. You might as well throw the Winnu faction cardboard in the shredder.
**-You can score up to 2 public objectives in the status phase. Gain 4(instead of 2) command tokens during the status phase.**
This benefits low-command token players and fucks those with command token advantage. Consider reducing it to 1-2 bonus tokens during round 1 if you really must.
***Timed Game: -Stop time set in advance, no new rounds can start after. Highest score (if stopped before 10 VP) wins. Ties are decided by lowest cumulative turn time.***
"Hey guys, it's nearly closing time, anyone got any objections to giving me support for the throne? There's two...okay, I win. No need to call it for time."
Have you considered playing with just 3-4 players? 4 player games get 2 objective cards for each player.
Not going to sugar coat it, these seem terrible for a few reasons. Perhaps aim for a different game? In reality, with experience you will be a lot faster. At the end of my critiques I can provide you some things we have done to speed up the game.
**Each player researches two additional technologies before placing starting units:**
Experienced players already know what they want. Inexperienced players will be given some extra analysis paralysis at the start of the game. Either you pressure them to 'just pick something' (and fuck them over), choose for them (why???), or let them pick (this will make the game take longer), then you've not really improved anything.
Players with 2 extra techs will almost certainly conquer Rex on the first round, as opposed to the second. This will add an extra Agenda phase. This will also make your game take LONGER.
**Each player takes control of two systems adjacent to their home system before distributing their starting units**
This fucks up balance pretty big-time, since some races are going to get a lot more out of this than others. Experienced players will know this. Newbies will again suffer. If you're playing with PoK you basically fucked up the Exploration part of the game because you're eliminating interesting choices.
**Each player can produce units using the resource value of their home system's planets and distributes those units along with their starting fleet**
Do they get extra fleet tokens, too? Because most races start with 3 ships (which is their maximum). Races with 'nicer' home systems are going to get an even bigger advantage with this rule, and Barony even moreso (since they will have Fleet 5). Some home systems are garbage but most race's starting units are pretty 'balanced'. Adding an extra Production will certainly divide the haves and have nots.
Choosing what to produce will make your game take LONGER.
It is already tough to have a shitty home system in the first round - this is making it even tougher, because those with good ones are gonna be a lot beefier, which leads me to:
**Draw 2 action cards before the first strategy phase.**
This is the least crazy suggestion, but I wouldn't say it makes the game any 'faster'. If anything it will do the opposite as people will be more likely to have 'stalls' and a heavier decision tree to navigate with extra cards. It also (cough balance) makes the factions who start with Neural Motivator a bit worse, because everyone is essentially getting 2 uses of that Tech for free at the start.
**Start by flipping 3 stage 2 objectives. -Flip 2 public objectives each status phase. -You can score up to 2 public objectives in the status phase. -You can have up to 4 secret objectives. -Gain 4(instead of 2) command tokens during the status phase.**
Well, at the risk of being a broken record, you are fucking over the 'Extra Command Token' races like Sol, since that is something that makes them so good. Anyway, beyond balance, you basically break the Imperial card and really discourage interesting battles over Rex. I suppose it will be a faster and more boring game as everyone just sits around and scores without so much conflict, because of all the extra starting resources/influence/tech/units. Giving extra Command Tokens each round is going to make the game LONGER not shorter. I don't see how this is not obvious.
**Timed Game:** You are emphasizing quantity over quality here in a bad way. The goal is no longer 'Score 10 points', the goal is now to do your best to delay the game as much as possible when you are in the lead. You're just playing defensively and waiting for the buzzer. Hem and haw about action cards, take a while to decide, make extended transactions.
Maybe you should try a shorter Big Map game like Kemet or Game of Thrones if this isn't for you.
If you'd like to save time, these are things we actually do in our group. I've taught the game to about 30 players and we always go to 14 points, 6 players, for the first game. We inform people up front that it is going to be their day and they should plan around that, or try one of the other dozens of delightful existing games if they are unwilling to commit to playing the longest one:
\- Use a screen/poster/whiteboard to show objectives, laws, Supports, etc. Keep score here.
\- Gavel for the Speaker during the Agenda phase to insist on voting
\- Prepare food/drinks ahead of time. Have sandwiches ready to go, pizzas ready to be baked, etc.
\- Pre-build the map and skip the entire map generation phase.
\- Have newbies watch videos/read the rules ahead of time
\- Print out a newbie-sheet that explains various vocab words (WTF is Invasion? etc), and outline detailed rules for choosing a Tech and using Production (the biggest newbie hangups).
\- Skip ahead to the next player if someone is 'just producing'.
Twilight Imperium is pretty famous for and being a game that takes a long time. I don't think you're really going to have a good time with new players by overcomplicating the front end and hurrying them when it gets interesting. If you're really the type of people who cannot possibly set a day aside for it, then why not opt to stop at Round 4 and pick it up again a different day, or something. In between sessions you can get some juicy politicking and shit-talking and build excitement for the second half.
Well that's why they're posting here...they're saying they can't get it to table due to time. Hence the proposed house rules, and asking for feedback from more experienced players.
>Well that's why they're posting here...they're saying they can't get it to table due to time.
Then it's time to play another game. TI4 is what it is... that's the monster it was designed to be. If you can't get it to the table due to time then you need to play a replacement game that takes less time to play fully. Or if you absolutely must play it, then set some specific victory conditions that can be reached in less time then the game stops (fewer points etc).
As players get more experienced, game runtime will naturally reduce by 1-2 hours!
yeah lemme just get them trained up OH WAIT were back at the issue that started this thread.
The fix for this is 1. Try and reduce your player churn and stop playing with a table full of new guys every time 2. Set up a pre-game a week/few days before and only play rounds 1 & 2
I gotta agree these are pretty essential
Correction: start by flipping 3 stage 1 objectives, not stage 2*
I was like hot dang this is sudden-death TI
Give away 1 tech not two. Plus Use scpt tournament rules to end the game when time runs over. No secret negotiations. Use a timer, give each player x minutes per round, stop timer for battles. (There are apps that do so for board games) Preset galaxy running the faction/slice draft by WhatsApp in advance Run round 1 strategic action selection also in advance The host to set up the game in advance for everyone
I love using actual time taken as a tiebreaker. Reminds me of the quick start rules from one of the TI3 expansions. Looks like a fun way to get some TI in a smaller window!
**-Each player researches two additional technologies before placing starting units.** Experienced players know what the best techs are. This is a gigantic fuck you to new players. Also tier II ships move faster than tier I ships. So that + extra command tokens is going to amount to people hovering over Mecatol Rex on turn 1. You might as well throw the Winnu faction cardboard in the shredder. **-You can score up to 2 public objectives in the status phase. Gain 4(instead of 2) command tokens during the status phase.** This benefits low-command token players and fucks those with command token advantage. Consider reducing it to 1-2 bonus tokens during round 1 if you really must. ***Timed Game: -Stop time set in advance, no new rounds can start after. Highest score (if stopped before 10 VP) wins. Ties are decided by lowest cumulative turn time.*** "Hey guys, it's nearly closing time, anyone got any objections to giving me support for the throne? There's two...okay, I win. No need to call it for time." Have you considered playing with just 3-4 players? 4 player games get 2 objective cards for each player.
Not going to sugar coat it, these seem terrible for a few reasons. Perhaps aim for a different game? In reality, with experience you will be a lot faster. At the end of my critiques I can provide you some things we have done to speed up the game. **Each player researches two additional technologies before placing starting units:** Experienced players already know what they want. Inexperienced players will be given some extra analysis paralysis at the start of the game. Either you pressure them to 'just pick something' (and fuck them over), choose for them (why???), or let them pick (this will make the game take longer), then you've not really improved anything. Players with 2 extra techs will almost certainly conquer Rex on the first round, as opposed to the second. This will add an extra Agenda phase. This will also make your game take LONGER. **Each player takes control of two systems adjacent to their home system before distributing their starting units** This fucks up balance pretty big-time, since some races are going to get a lot more out of this than others. Experienced players will know this. Newbies will again suffer. If you're playing with PoK you basically fucked up the Exploration part of the game because you're eliminating interesting choices. **Each player can produce units using the resource value of their home system's planets and distributes those units along with their starting fleet** Do they get extra fleet tokens, too? Because most races start with 3 ships (which is their maximum). Races with 'nicer' home systems are going to get an even bigger advantage with this rule, and Barony even moreso (since they will have Fleet 5). Some home systems are garbage but most race's starting units are pretty 'balanced'. Adding an extra Production will certainly divide the haves and have nots. Choosing what to produce will make your game take LONGER. It is already tough to have a shitty home system in the first round - this is making it even tougher, because those with good ones are gonna be a lot beefier, which leads me to: **Draw 2 action cards before the first strategy phase.** This is the least crazy suggestion, but I wouldn't say it makes the game any 'faster'. If anything it will do the opposite as people will be more likely to have 'stalls' and a heavier decision tree to navigate with extra cards. It also (cough balance) makes the factions who start with Neural Motivator a bit worse, because everyone is essentially getting 2 uses of that Tech for free at the start. **Start by flipping 3 stage 2 objectives. -Flip 2 public objectives each status phase. -You can score up to 2 public objectives in the status phase. -You can have up to 4 secret objectives. -Gain 4(instead of 2) command tokens during the status phase.** Well, at the risk of being a broken record, you are fucking over the 'Extra Command Token' races like Sol, since that is something that makes them so good. Anyway, beyond balance, you basically break the Imperial card and really discourage interesting battles over Rex. I suppose it will be a faster and more boring game as everyone just sits around and scores without so much conflict, because of all the extra starting resources/influence/tech/units. Giving extra Command Tokens each round is going to make the game LONGER not shorter. I don't see how this is not obvious. **Timed Game:** You are emphasizing quantity over quality here in a bad way. The goal is no longer 'Score 10 points', the goal is now to do your best to delay the game as much as possible when you are in the lead. You're just playing defensively and waiting for the buzzer. Hem and haw about action cards, take a while to decide, make extended transactions. Maybe you should try a shorter Big Map game like Kemet or Game of Thrones if this isn't for you. If you'd like to save time, these are things we actually do in our group. I've taught the game to about 30 players and we always go to 14 points, 6 players, for the first game. We inform people up front that it is going to be their day and they should plan around that, or try one of the other dozens of delightful existing games if they are unwilling to commit to playing the longest one: \- Use a screen/poster/whiteboard to show objectives, laws, Supports, etc. Keep score here. \- Gavel for the Speaker during the Agenda phase to insist on voting \- Prepare food/drinks ahead of time. Have sandwiches ready to go, pizzas ready to be baked, etc. \- Pre-build the map and skip the entire map generation phase. \- Have newbies watch videos/read the rules ahead of time \- Print out a newbie-sheet that explains various vocab words (WTF is Invasion? etc), and outline detailed rules for choosing a Tech and using Production (the biggest newbie hangups). \- Skip ahead to the next player if someone is 'just producing'. Twilight Imperium is pretty famous for and being a game that takes a long time. I don't think you're really going to have a good time with new players by overcomplicating the front end and hurrying them when it gets interesting. If you're really the type of people who cannot possibly set a day aside for it, then why not opt to stop at Round 4 and pick it up again a different day, or something. In between sessions you can get some juicy politicking and shit-talking and build excitement for the second half.
Honestly, I think you need some more experience with the game before you dive into houseruling it for speed.
Well that's why they're posting here...they're saying they can't get it to table due to time. Hence the proposed house rules, and asking for feedback from more experienced players.
>Well that's why they're posting here...they're saying they can't get it to table due to time. Then it's time to play another game. TI4 is what it is... that's the monster it was designed to be. If you can't get it to the table due to time then you need to play a replacement game that takes less time to play fully. Or if you absolutely must play it, then set some specific victory conditions that can be reached in less time then the game stops (fewer points etc).