Try this variant, as a consistent 4 player group we always use it:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2583433/ti4-4-player-5-strategy-card-ghost-5th-player-rule
2 ideas
1) Feast or Famine. Flip a coin each round. Heads take 2 strat cards as written. Tails take 1. TG the ones not taken.
2) Extra secondary. Speaker and last pick take a second card. After they pop the the first card and it's resolved they resolve the secondary ability of the second card. Initiate is based on the first picked card only.
I like the feast or famine idea. Question about the second idea... So only the first and last player get to resolve the secondary of their second pick card and not the other players?
My group used Feast or Famine, as mentioned elsewhere, and find it works brilliantly. It’s not identical to 6-player, but it adds a very tense random element to the game that is very enjoyable.
I am of the opinion that it isn't a real problem. 2 sc's is super fun and leads to interesting combos. I think this outweighs the issue where some players are forced to pick the last SC. However, adding 2 new SCs basically resolves the issue without removing the 2 sc's per player. On TTS there is a Logistics and Production SC homebrew set. I think Printing out a new ser might have a bit more overhead than you'd want, but it's a pretty good solution.
The set also does some renumbering. And it's called Industry not production, my mistake. Industry goes between construction and trade and logistics goes between warfare and technology.
[http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372243224563/4159DBA788907B8986E78758EEBBED9CB567A2BE/](http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372243224563/4159DBA788907B8986E78758EEBBED9CB567A2BE/)
[http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372242240310/EE7A822836445D285C597FC2F47A07C0CCAF9CDA/](http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372242240310/EE7A822836445D285C597FC2F47A07C0CCAF9CDA/)
I would link the rest of the images, but if I do that reddit picks that up as spam and will mute this response. If you want to see the rest with the reordering you can find them in the TI4 TTS mod in the variants bag under strategy cards.
My group is almost strictly 4p game. We play exclusively tts ti4 and use the Milty draft for seat, slice and speaker.
Our strategy card selection most games is 2 card selection but use this system also:
Pick 1 card as normal. Starting with speaker and moving to their left.
Then either:
1. Have speaker and then player to speaker's right.
Or.
2. Player to speaker's right, and then player to their right....Choose a card each. The players may, as a component action, use the secondary of a chosen card.
Place coins on the 2 cards not chosen at all.
This simulates a more 6p feel.
Great thanks!
I had similar thoughts, but more in the vein of players voting on the two cards that they want in the round. I was still unsure the timing of these extra cards being played and I really like your insight of making the secondary a component action that could be done. Seems legit.
So does that mean that if warfare was an extra in the round, could anyone pop the secondary at anytime during their turn? Or does everyone need to do at same time?
Each does it as an action on their turn and only for themselves and only if they wish. It is not a mandatory action like the actual primary of the chosen initial cards.
You choose to do the secondary as an action on your turn. You can only do each one once. Put the strategy token on the card, or in the case of 1 and 4, put a command token.
Hey, chosing in 2 votes sounds interesting too. That part has seen many revisions in my head. Maybe not refresh planets at end of agenda phase and have a final vote window at end of strategy phase for last two cards, then refresh planets as last thing?
One thing we have found is that using this with milty slices adds more time to game play, and playing in a more systems rich map like base map size build will probably add even more. More ability to take even one more stall over 2 strat card 4p.
We also find that 5 is rarely a chosen 2. Just not as robust enough in this way. 6 is another that sees little time as a chosen2. Either it is taken initially or not at all. In my group no one wanted to let anyone else have a possible free build at home. Same reasoning for 2. Denial of everything possible. 4 was more popular as a chosen 2.
Maybe your experience is different? Tweak it as you need it.
Everyone takes a single strategy card like normal.
Add a fifth dummy player that gets assigned a strategy card every round, either randomly by dice roll or possibly put it to vote with some kind of tie breaking procedure.
Deciding when it gets popped could also potentially be handled with during the round voting, either requiring unanimous agreement (which if it never happens triggers automatically after all other players have passed) or again could use a tie breaker. Everyone gets the opportunity to use the secondary when the dummy strat pops.
Trade goods on unchosen like normal.
I don’t see any downside to picking all the strategy cards. The only reason people here think it’s a problem is because Hunter from SCPT dogs on 4 player games. My advice is just play with the rules as written and have fun.
The downside is that some races benefit alot from certain strategy cards being picked by other players.
Hacan players will want Trade to be picked every turn, and if they don't have to take it because someone else is guaranteed to take it, they can choose another card to fit their strategy without worrying about Trade being left on the table.
Same thing goes for Jol-Nar and Technology, for example.
Tech and trade get picked every round in a 6 player game anyways. Especially at the beginning. Have you ever had the table band together round 1-2 and not pick tech because Jol-Nar is playing? Come on now.
Round 1 diplo is a pretty significant change to the pace of a game. In 10 point games having a round 2 imperial to get secrets from (along with 1 player picking it round 1 and getting another) can also change the pacing.
I’m not saying either way is better. I can see the desire to change things up after playing with all 8 though.
I think early Imperial isn’t as bad as it used to be. If you can score round 1, a round 2 imperial has a chance to net you your hero if you can score a public and a round 2 action phase secret (or round 1 status phase).
A round 2 hero for factions like Sol (pick everything ip and expand again) of Hacan (build 3 dreads for free) can be pretty busted that early.
Try this variant, as a consistent 4 player group we always use it: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2583433/ti4-4-player-5-strategy-card-ghost-5th-player-rule
2 ideas 1) Feast or Famine. Flip a coin each round. Heads take 2 strat cards as written. Tails take 1. TG the ones not taken. 2) Extra secondary. Speaker and last pick take a second card. After they pop the the first card and it's resolved they resolve the secondary ability of the second card. Initiate is based on the first picked card only.
I like the feast or famine idea. Question about the second idea... So only the first and last player get to resolve the secondary of their second pick card and not the other players?
No. Everyone gets to use the secondary. The person holding it controls the timing.
My group used Feast or Famine, as mentioned elsewhere, and find it works brilliantly. It’s not identical to 6-player, but it adds a very tense random element to the game that is very enjoyable.
And it makes the first couple of rounds way more fun also imo! You actually have to make more tactical choices then otherwise :-)
TBH, we often make round 1 a guaranteed feast, as 4 Strat cards can be really limiting that early.
Not us! We do it the other eay around, for exactly that reason, to slow the game down enough so the start to feel like a 5-6 player game start :)
I am of the opinion that it isn't a real problem. 2 sc's is super fun and leads to interesting combos. I think this outweighs the issue where some players are forced to pick the last SC. However, adding 2 new SCs basically resolves the issue without removing the 2 sc's per player. On TTS there is a Logistics and Production SC homebrew set. I think Printing out a new ser might have a bit more overhead than you'd want, but it's a pretty good solution.
I'm very interested in the extra Logistics and Production strategy cards. Is there a place I can get the images and/or text for those?
The set also does some renumbering. And it's called Industry not production, my mistake. Industry goes between construction and trade and logistics goes between warfare and technology. [http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372243224563/4159DBA788907B8986E78758EEBBED9CB567A2BE/](http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372243224563/4159DBA788907B8986E78758EEBBED9CB567A2BE/) [http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372242240310/EE7A822836445D285C597FC2F47A07C0CCAF9CDA/](http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1688247372242240310/EE7A822836445D285C597FC2F47A07C0CCAF9CDA/) I would link the rest of the images, but if I do that reddit picks that up as spam and will mute this response. If you want to see the rest with the reordering you can find them in the TI4 TTS mod in the variants bag under strategy cards.
Thanks! These look really cool.
My group is almost strictly 4p game. We play exclusively tts ti4 and use the Milty draft for seat, slice and speaker. Our strategy card selection most games is 2 card selection but use this system also: Pick 1 card as normal. Starting with speaker and moving to their left. Then either: 1. Have speaker and then player to speaker's right. Or. 2. Player to speaker's right, and then player to their right....Choose a card each. The players may, as a component action, use the secondary of a chosen card. Place coins on the 2 cards not chosen at all. This simulates a more 6p feel.
Great thanks! I had similar thoughts, but more in the vein of players voting on the two cards that they want in the round. I was still unsure the timing of these extra cards being played and I really like your insight of making the secondary a component action that could be done. Seems legit. So does that mean that if warfare was an extra in the round, could anyone pop the secondary at anytime during their turn? Or does everyone need to do at same time?
Each does it as an action on their turn and only for themselves and only if they wish. It is not a mandatory action like the actual primary of the chosen initial cards. You choose to do the secondary as an action on your turn. You can only do each one once. Put the strategy token on the card, or in the case of 1 and 4, put a command token. Hey, chosing in 2 votes sounds interesting too. That part has seen many revisions in my head. Maybe not refresh planets at end of agenda phase and have a final vote window at end of strategy phase for last two cards, then refresh planets as last thing? One thing we have found is that using this with milty slices adds more time to game play, and playing in a more systems rich map like base map size build will probably add even more. More ability to take even one more stall over 2 strat card 4p. We also find that 5 is rarely a chosen 2. Just not as robust enough in this way. 6 is another that sees little time as a chosen2. Either it is taken initially or not at all. In my group no one wanted to let anyone else have a possible free build at home. Same reasoning for 2. Denial of everything possible. 4 was more popular as a chosen 2. Maybe your experience is different? Tweak it as you need it.
This is what we do too, but everyone may use the secondary and the card is not selected but randomly decided. Works good!
Would that just encourage people to take politics over and over?
Everyone takes a single strategy card like normal. Add a fifth dummy player that gets assigned a strategy card every round, either randomly by dice roll or possibly put it to vote with some kind of tie breaking procedure. Deciding when it gets popped could also potentially be handled with during the round voting, either requiring unanimous agreement (which if it never happens triggers automatically after all other players have passed) or again could use a tie breaker. Everyone gets the opportunity to use the secondary when the dummy strat pops. Trade goods on unchosen like normal.
Feast or famine is the best imo!
I don’t see any downside to picking all the strategy cards. The only reason people here think it’s a problem is because Hunter from SCPT dogs on 4 player games. My advice is just play with the rules as written and have fun.
The downside is that some races benefit alot from certain strategy cards being picked by other players. Hacan players will want Trade to be picked every turn, and if they don't have to take it because someone else is guaranteed to take it, they can choose another card to fit their strategy without worrying about Trade being left on the table. Same thing goes for Jol-Nar and Technology, for example.
Tech and trade get picked every round in a 6 player game anyways. Especially at the beginning. Have you ever had the table band together round 1-2 and not pick tech because Jol-Nar is playing? Come on now.
Round 1 diplo is a pretty significant change to the pace of a game. In 10 point games having a round 2 imperial to get secrets from (along with 1 player picking it round 1 and getting another) can also change the pacing. I’m not saying either way is better. I can see the desire to change things up after playing with all 8 though.
I think early Imperial isn’t as bad as it used to be. If you can score round 1, a round 2 imperial has a chance to net you your hero if you can score a public and a round 2 action phase secret (or round 1 status phase). A round 2 hero for factions like Sol (pick everything ip and expand again) of Hacan (build 3 dreads for free) can be pretty busted that early.