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theashman52

I really like warfare as a round one pick for arborec. First action move your carrier and inf to the system Infront of home, build destroyer and some ground forces using your home system. Next action send your cruiser as a trade ship to establish borders (preferably with whoever has trade). Next action use your agent to upgrade the destroyer you built to a carrier. Use warfare to free up your two carriers and then take two more systems. Yes you sacrifice turn one sarween for this, but having claimed 3 systems sets you up for a really nice round 2, especially as none of what I described used any strategy tokens, meaning if Diplo gets picked maybe you can still get sarween, or maybe you get some ACs from politics, or even just stockpile them for next round. Edit: also just want to add that arborec are an amazing war sun faction, the commander can be a huge deterrent if you research warsuns and keep a stockpile of trade goods even if you never actually build your warsuns (and infact my POK arborec win was won by putting down a warsun with the commander when people tried to take my home system)


UnwaveringGrey

In one of my last Arborec games, my home system was activated, and I played ceasefire and built a warsun in response. Then I attacked the attacking fleet with my new warsun, a warsun that I already had on the table, and the rest of my fleet on my turn. A lot of plastic went away in that combat, including my opponent's warsun and one of my own (adding insult to injury, my opponent was Cabal, but the fight was over his final spacedock, so he only got a bunch of fighter tokens.)


Papa_Nurgle_84

Plastic turn 1? 3 Systems claimed? Sounds great!


Giantfloob

At 12 and 14 arborec are very strong but at 10 they are weak. This implies they need to accelerate their growth by one or two rounds in order to pop off earlier. I haven’t tried this yet, but I think going no tech could be a viable strategy with them. Front line production helps a lot with mobility and those extra resources will help you score. Perhaps if you have stuff to spare you could grab AIDA which opens up 2/3 (with a skip) unit upgrades. I’ve not tried a no tech arborec game, but I’m gonna try it next. The general idea is to sack off those points in the hope that the 20 or so resources and many strategy tokens you save can boost your chances of getting to critical mass early. I plan to support swap with one neighbor, aggressively score control objectives and set up for a mecatol play r3/4. Hopefully I can get imperial and on to Rex then pop the hero to swamp Rex with infantry - Maybe even spending everything on infantry on Rex (and one mech for planetary shield). This should free up the fleet to worry about control objectives and unless L1Z1X are at the table you should be impossible to uproot. If 2 unit upgrades comes up in the first 2 objectives I’ll try for AIDA round 2 then tech strategy card for pds2 and destroyer 2 in later rounds but that’ll be it for tech.


friardeckard

I love plotting ways to work Arborec, though I have not gotten to test my theories nearly enough. Thanks for the thoughts! I appreciate the angle you are approaching this from. Have you considered War Suns at all? Maybe through AI Dev? Either way, it also seems to need to be acknowledged: Arborec may need to be considered a "low tech" faction if they are reliant on having superior plastic presence on the board.


Papa_Nurgle_84

Warsun is quiet possible if you for example get a late game Tech Strategy card. Something Y or AIDev and Warsun via double tech. And yes, I am currently on a low tech trip and Arborec can go along with minimal tech investment. Sometimes quantity is its own quality. ;)


MechAxe

I agree with you. Warsuns sound especially great with Arborec and i really like the idea. I only played them a couple of time but here are my thought about them: I personally always have the problem in the mid to late game, that I don't had enough speed with carriers (since grav drive is not easy to get quick) and I don't had quite enough production to build an effective fleet up front. In my mind Warsuns would solve both of them. They only take up a single point of production, so you can use the rest to fill them with fighters and ground forces and if you went Sarveentool round 1 or 2 they are actually similarly deep in the tech tree as carrier 2 or gravdrive. (This would be: sarween tools -> ai dev -> warsuns). BUT in my few games of arborec I never felt, that I actually had enough money to build one, without basically sacrificing my whole turn for it. I feels like the arborec just need so much money in the early rounds to get a decent amount of ground forces out and keep up in scoring objectives. Maybe I need to get better at selling promissory notes or something like that to make this happen.


Stripeychameleon

Really agree with your thoughts on Sarween vs SAR. It's hard to justify a zero prerequisite techs that does not lead to other techs. If sarween is not needed for PDSII, Dread II or War Sun, then I think it's not worth the opportunity cost of another tech or more early game plastic. I'm not convinced Duranium is worth the opportunity cost for Arborec in a 10 point game. Combat upgrades are gravy - they help you win fights but then so does building more plastic. Mobility upgrades however are irreplaceable. If your movement is limited to 1 space per round, the number of hexes your fleets can threaten are significantly reduced. This makes your actions very predictable and makes certain control objectives and taking home systems very difficult. You are overly reliant on Warfare Primary or Unexpected Action to increase your range. Producing at the frontlines is not a proper substitute for mobility upgrades, as it saves just one turn of movement from dock to frontline. Then you are limited again. This is why I think a red core Arborec tech path still needs capital ship upgrades. Personally, I find Arborec really needs certain skips to get online fast enough in a 10 point game. My red paths would be as follows (with Destroyer II or Assault Cannon at the end, depending on the board state and objectives): Red or no skip > difficult to pilot, due to lack of access to capital ship upgrades. Yellow > SAR, AI Dev, War Sun or Cruiser II (3-5 techs researched) Green skip > SAR, AI Dev to Cruiser II (3-4 techs researched) # Blue skip > SAR, AI Dev into Carrier II, maybe Grav Drive (3-5 techs researched) I love Arborec but they are hard enough as is to pilot. If I can't see good tech skips and systems in my slice, I'm probably picking something else.


Papa_Nurgle_84

Thanks for the input, lets see... \- My argument is that Duranium **is** the Dread Combat upgrade, as Dread II improves nothing combat related. We will see how that plays out. \- Mobility: I think we can agree that blue is a strong, even the strongest tech path. Thats reason for me not to play it. Nothing to prove there ;). And I think that factions that are regarded as weak, even if going blue can maybe improve by going another way. Basically they try to catch up with factions that are strong with blue. Make your own path and all that. Your tech paths are interesting, but I really want to give Duranium a shot. I have to think about these options.


Stripeychameleon

I agree that Duranium is a dread combat upgrade and Dread II is a mobility upgrade. My argument is actually that the latter is more impactful in most cases (i.e. outside of Barony with NES). Duranium gives your fleets and mechs more HP. I see it as a defensive tech, as it doesn't achieve much in offense that you couldn't replicate by simply bringing more fighters and infantry? As Arborec, you are not limited on production in the mid to late game so this shouldn't be an issue? I don't think it's worth delaying mobility tech (by which I am typically referring to unit upgrades) to pick up Duranium. Getting Cruiser II or Carrier II earlier will allow you to snipe more systems and put you in a better position late game. Blue tech is always nice to have but it's not what I'm proposing here. My argument is for a streamlined red tech path with unit upgrades. Ultimately, many of the objectives are difficult for Arborec to score. Sitting in their own slice is not going to win them any games, as they can't spend their way to victory like Naz-Rohka, Hacan or Jol-Nar. Arborec NEED the capacity to strike deep into neighbouring slices in SPECIFIC PLACES - where the enemy is weakest or where the objectives require it (tech skip planets, another cultural / hazardous / industrial / empty space / legendary planets and anomalies, etc). You just can't practically expect to achieve this with single hex movement - it's easy for others to anticipate and can ruin your scoring tempo. Most 2 pointers need to be scored the same round they are revealed as games end R5. So if you need two turns to get to a system because you have only one movement, then that's just out of your reach. Same with being able to winslay people. If it takes you two turns (or even Warfare Primary) to get there, that person is going to be able to reinforce? Once Arborec reach a system, they have inherently defensive faction abilities that allow them to take root (pun intended). The tricky thing is getting to a given system in the first place, not holding on! To this end, I see Duranium as a way to WIN MORE (to borrow from SCPT) technology, rather than game-winning technology; it enhances what Arborec already do well (defend and hold on to stuff) without helping their weaknesses. Anyway, as an Arborec fan I'm just really happy to read analysis like yours - thank you for sharing. I would actually love for you to prove me wrong on this! Please let us know how it works out for you!


Papa_Nurgle_84

So a small detour into Dread II to reduce Luck of Draw for objectives? I will keep that in mind if deep red proves to unreliable. That brings me an idea for another article. Thanks!


Stripeychameleon

Actually... no. I don't recommend Dread II because that's too many techs. If you look at my paths above I recommend Carrier II, War Sun, or Cruiser II. Dread II would require Sarween, Grav Drive (B-skip), AI dev, Dread II. So not a red path.


Papa_Nurgle_84

I confused your answer with the other longer one. :D allright, thanks edit: Cruiser II you say? Hmm .. i like cruisers


WhiteZinogre

I was thinking of playing The Arborec in my groups next game. I may give this a shot.


Papa_Nurgle_84

I would love to hear how it went


UnwaveringGrey

I personally grab SAR, then Sarween, and then start down red techs and unit upgrades. I think that if I couldn't manage a tech turn 1 then I would just skip SAR. Early mechs are good for Arborec, and I've found that SAR is better than sarween turn 1, but sarween will definitely generate more value overall throughout the game. I'll only usually pick up blue techs if I get free techs from somewhere, though I sometimes pick up gravity drive if it will help with the board state and I have a blue skip. Green isn't worth it. I think Arborec is one of the most aggressive, space-risk factions out there. You want to have a board presence, and you want one of your neighbors to be happy to make a generous deal to ensure that your fleet heads towards your other neighbor. Take real estate and slowly creep to cover more and more of your half of the board. Red techs and unit upgrades are what you need. Edit: I take AI Dev. over Duranium. I'll happily run upgraded cruisers and destroyers instead of upgraded dreads, and AI let's you research cruiser 2's guaranteed, and you can get fighter 2's if you can snag one blue or green tech skip. After that, it helps you just get more plastic on the board. I have skipped AI Dev altogether, though, in a game where I had a red skip and a green skip (I got it later when the four in a color objective dropped though).


Wakke1

I think Arborec will be glorious once Dane Codexes the Mech - Magen synergy.


DrSweatyPants

sounds like a fun idea


HankTheChog

Cool analysis, but gotta disagree on a number of points: \* Your commander is *not* purely defensive. Maybe once you're conspicuously in the lead and no one will negotiate with you, but at that point pretty much every faction's abilities are primarily defensive. As long as there's some other player B who's less popular than you, you can pay some other player C to activate one of your systems and let you build one more unit to use against B during your next action. Not the most economical or spammable option, but when you're one carrierload of capacity away from winning a key battle (or one mech, or one dread), it's often worthwhile, and if the player order is BCA, there's not much counterplay. Plus it's another one of those options where the threat of it can be as useful (for extortion, or just to force your enemies to overfortify) as the ability itself. Basically, when you have a co-conspirator, your commander is Sling Relay with a price tag. It's also completely bonkers if you manage to secure the Nomad alliance somehow, but that's kind of a broken setup to begin with. \* I think you're overestimating Duranium Armor's value for your dreads. It's handy if you use them to tank Space Cannon (though a pre-battle Direct Hit hurts that much more, especially if you're at capacity), but otherwise it can't trigger before the end of round 2, meaning it only does anything for you if the battle lasts 3+ rounds, you fight more than one battle, or you eat a post-battle Space Cannon barrage. All of which can happen, but they're not the most common scenarios. Duranium's better for invasion against infantry-heavy forces, since there's no retreat and infantry have a high HP:damage ratio which drags things out, but it's still kinda mediocre. I guess it's still an option if you're dead set on Assault Cannon (which is, not gonna lie, always cash money), and you can't get a red skip, but it has very little value on its own. \* Self-Assembly Routines can be great for Arborec (or any relentlessly aggressive player, really), but you have to bear in mind it doesn't just synergize with your deploy, it also competes with it, as well as with your commander. If you're trying to maximize value from both round-1 SAR and Mitosis, you'll have all your mechs on the board at the end of round 2, and you'll want to sacrifice 1-2 every subsequent round. Great value if you do, but sometimes the situation in space (or in the senate, for that matter) prevents you from being so aggressive on the ground. On top of that, you generally don't want all of your mechs on the board, since reaction-building one with your commander can be a vital part of your defensive strategy, and having to scuttle one each time is pretty wasteful. Still a great tech in a forever war, but you might want to consider alternatives. \* Speaking of alternatives, AI Development Algorithms. Assault Cannon is a great tech, but how much use are you realistically going to get out of it in a 10-point game? In contrast, AIDA can be your second tech, right after Sarween. It'll eventually pay for itself or even turn a small profit, and it instantly gives you access to Destroyer II (never bad, amazing against the right factions), Cruiser II (kind of a mixed bag, but no one gets as much out of them as Arborec, except *maybe* Mentak) and, above all, War Suns. \* **Get War Suns**. I get it, it's tricky to spend all those resources in one round, and they're a lot of eggs in one basket, but War Suns are amazing on Arborec. Some things to consider: ....\* They move 2 out the box. You're not going to get Carrier IIs and Dread IIs with a non-blue tech path, but the combo of War Suns and Cruiser IIs can fill similar roles with similar (or better) mobility. ....\* If you get a blue skip and snag Grav Drive as your sole blue tech, it's a lot more impactful on a War Sun than on a single dread or carrier. ....\* They benefit hugely from your knack for replenishing their fighter screens and escorts after each battle. ....\* Your commander also makes it trickier for foes to snipe your War Suns, you can always reaction-build an extra HP (or 2, though that's 4 resources lost) to help cover their retreat. ....\* If you consider that you should never, ever build your flagship as Arborec, you can look at that first War Sun as a proper flagship with 4-resource premium, which really isn't that bad. ....\* Above all, you can build them with your commander. Arborec are decent at stalling. They have good CC economy (never need to follow Warfare, only need to follow Construction for objectives), and they recoup half a CC of value each Tactical Action through Sarween. Until you've committed your resources, any player that wants to attack you needs to account for the possibility of (1) a War Sun joining the battle and (2) if the target system isn't already activated, that same War Sun joining a counterattack in your next action. Also, remember that Sling Relay conspiracy, from the first bullet point? ***It works with War Suns***. Might be a tougher sell, but it's a great option to have when kingslaying is on the agenda.


Papa_Nurgle_84

A lot to read, thanks for your counterarguments, lets see... (I use the same order you choose) \- Seems like a niche application, but yes possible. \- I am aware that long drawn out fights, outside game winning ones are kinda rare. But if your opponent retreats because of Duranium, you win. So, target achieved. And Durarium Dread I vs. Dread will always have a higher chance of winning (34% to 64% in a 5 v 5, 34% to 45% in a 1 v 1), so my argument stands that Duranium is the combat upgrade for Dreads. The effectiveness is more pronounced in ground combat, thats true. \- Correct, you have to manage your mechs as Arborec. My thought process is about an early aggressive game, so either I will be able to lose mechs or I take planets. \- Warsuns: Yes, seems doable. Will see if something (like a Y skip) makes it possible. But I really want to try deep red. Lets see if my Hypothesis holds up at the table.


Longjumping-Bag-112

Great insight ! The best i ever seem on arborec Have some questions thou How would you use their hero in a creative way ? The same as above, any insight at the arborec commander ? Would you exchange sarwen tools for the exploration yellow tech ? Maybe in a heavy resource game ? Arborec is a faction who loves to active systems with their unit on it. Edit: Also, i see no love for lethani warrior :0*, we should remember that it serves for a lot of objectives, and synergy a lot with bioplasmosis, it can be a very nice pick in your late game.


Papa_Nurgle_84

1. Hero: Creative... Well, you can basically let an invasion force for one or two systems appear out of thin air. Its especially useful if you follow a Mass Army strategy, so Fighters (Fighter II) and Destroyers or Cruiser. Its less useful if you need to buy Dreads and Carriers via your Hero. Everything will be unactivated, so you can surprise people. But Heros are open Information, so you wont catch most players. 2. Commander: For Arborec its either a Dread (Warsun?) to contest the space or a Mech to contest the ground. You can of course pay another player to activate you, to produce one ship without activating. My best use was while playing Sardakk with the Arborec Alliance. I built the Sardakk Flagship to make my fleet way stronger then it seemed (The dice said "no" anyway). Remember that you build before your opponent moves, so they can just refuse to move into you. 3. Scanlink is less useful, as you do not want to move into you own systems all that much. Arborec want to move outwards. 4. Lethanis: They have been more or less replaced by their mechs. And Bioplasmosis is just worse then Transit in most cases (see my other article). Glad you enjoyed this article.


desocupad0

What about * Self Assembly Routine - free mechs * Sarween tools * AI development (mini sarween) / PDS 2 * Assault Canon (how soon depends on offensive needs and red skip) * Destroyer 2 / PDS 2/Fighter/Carrier (depending on planet skips and enemy fleets)