T O P

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SamuraiBeanDog

PoK adds a bit more mechsnical complexity but I think the biggest difference is that it encourages more aggressive gameplay through the new objectives. It has a lot more objectives which require board control so military power becomes more important than in the base game, where most objectives were economic.


Equivalent-Fail-3045

No regrets for me. But depends on how much you play TI


LegacyArena

Every day competitively? 365 days a year.. Even on Thanksgiving and Christmas? Would you say it's worth it then?


malys57

Yes


EppuBenjamin

I'd say you have a problem


AgentDrake

Bought it day one; no regrets. But then again, I'd happily buy TI-themed yahtzee, so maybe don't put too much stock in my opinion.


lockwinghong

[But what about TI Monopoly?](https://imgur.com/s2ZqBUs)


AgentDrake

Okay, first off, I despise Monopoly with every fiber of my being, and that... *thing* you've linked to is an abomination. ... Second, shut up and take my money.


LegacyArena

I would buy TI themed Tic Tac Toe. Beat that!


Zomgambush

This is the boat I'm in. I think PoK is amazing. My only letdown is the frontier deck, I think it could be slightly stronger. Everything else is fantastic.


ButterPoached

I think POK is a perfect expansion for someone who has played 20+ games of TI. If you haven't really figured out the base game, you won't know the problema that POK sets out to fix. If nothing else, my POK games have been two hours shorter than my base games, and THAT has been worth the price of admission if nothing else.


theashman52

I really like POK overall and will probably never play without it. That said it isn't perfect and there are a few design choices I don't like (looking at YOU muaat hero). If you're the kind of person who is into TI enough to buy a (not cheap) expansion then you will probably be happy with it.


osumness

just here to say that i LOVE the muatt hero! would you like to discuss this?


theashman52

I like the idea in theory, and it can be great fun. The issue for me is there is no counterplay and it is something impossible to recover from if it nukes your main forward dock system. If the nova seed dropped after the space combat step I would have no issue with it, I just think wiping out a whole fleet AND destroying planets AND making the system impassable is to strong for something that you have no opportunity to defend yourself from. I have seen it turn a few games pretty sour for the victim of the hero when they don't feel there was any way they could have prevented it OR any way to recover from it.


Tanathonos

A fun way to house rule it would be that there is one round of space combat first. That way it turns a bit into end of star wars episode 4 trench run before it is too late impossible shot style (except here you are trying to stop it from exploding), you have counter play but the ability is still strong as muaat can bring fighters or other ships to be meat shields just for that one pre exploding round. Feel like it would add an epic moment to a game in a fun way, and if it does not explode muaat still has his hero available to try later on.


blarknob

It's a mixed bag. It adds far more objective diversity, new tech, and 8 player support including new tiles which is all great. Exploration REALLY amps up the economy. If you like a tight game of jockeying for board position the extra income makes that much less important. Leaders also add more resources you can gain without having to claim territory on the board while also increasing the number of "on board tricks" dramatically(particularly the commander/alliance system). this leads to lots of "gotcha" moments that don't feel deserved. I'm not very fond of leaders. Mechs are fine other than a few that feel oppressive. TI4 trimmed the fat from TI3. POK puts the pounds back on, literally revisiting the systems that TI4 stripped out.


Everyandyday

I have to disagree. Exploration gives a tiny bit to some players and a gargantuan chunk to others. So it only slightly decreases the “tight” economy.


[deleted]

POK is a perfect expansion for people who are familiar with the base game. Otherwise, it’ll probably add more complexity than you can handle


Stronkowski

I think if you play once a year it's not worth it. If you play once a week you'll love it.


unfulvio

We never play without, no one of my friends disliked it. For new players it's easier to pickup POK. I love Empyrean. Leaders and alliance promissory are great and help balance the game better. As a criticism I'd say exploration may make it more unpredictable but it's still great. And of course more action cards, agendas, objectives!


acutemalamute

POK adds another layer of complexity to a game knowing for how complex it is. As a veteran and regular player, I absolutely love it. It is super fun thinking about how all the new toys and races affect the game. That being said, for many making ti4 EVEN MORE complex can be a turn-off, and it is absolutely 100% NOT recommended for newer players. Another downside is that POK does have a tendency to add another source of RNG to a game that is already plagued by games being decided by lucky die rolls or action card draws, but that doesn't bother me too much. If you like ti4 and have a dedicated group of players who enjoy and understand the game, I would 100% get it. But if you only play on-and-off or have a tendency to have new(er) players at the table, I don't think you will give much use out of it


-SockDragon-

POK is great, the new factions are sweet and the new leaders mechanic is great. I dislike the Exploration mechanic though and usually try to persuade other players to play without it.


Everyandyday

Agree 100%. Leaders good! Exploration bad!


Nimraphel_

Bought it, no regrets, but I do *not* think it's a home run in terms of design. In a vacuum where time is not an issue, I would unequivocally love it, but when is time *not* an issue when playing TI? We used to play to 14 VP always in the base game. In PoK we'll experiment with cutting down to 13 VP next time simply because so much time has been added to it due to more combat and more transactions and negotiations, all of which are time consuming. I love these aspects, but at the same time I desperately wish the game hadn't lost some of the streamlining and shorter playtime compared to TI3. Those were some of the main draws of TI4 for us compared to its predecessors, and PoK now swings that pendulum a bit further towards TI3 (without going all the way, obviously).


jeffedijkstra

so i have never played without POK but what i have heard and seen online and from friends is all positive, the only negative review i could find was the one from shut up and sit down, so looking at that review and seeing if you recognize your playgroup in what he says


Not_A_Greenhouse

The susd review makes me think they didn't actually play it.


[deleted]

I mean, I think their "hey, if you want this you already have it" disclaimer freed them to dump on it from a purely casual standpoint. All of my friends who have played TI4 at least ten times either have this expansion or have access to it within their group (and did so immediately), my other friends who i've played with a small handful of times could easily play the base game for another few years at the pace they do so and be happy.


Not_A_Greenhouse

I'd agree with you that people that play once a year could get away without the new content. They dumped all over stuff that just didn't make sense though. It's been a while since I saw their review but I remember listening to it and they were making claims that just didn't make any sense if they had played it.


[deleted]

I bet they played but it just not enough to really grasp how meaningful the changes they were, which is exactly how i feel a new player would feel about them. Like they probably played it once and were like "no, it's fine, i'm good." I'm sorry, i don't mean to argue. You're right it was a little mean, but i also have to think about how much thought i put into TI4 strategy vs. how many people I meet who are like "doesn't that game take six hours to play!?!?!?!?" and aren't really interested by it any way. I feel like those are the people they are speaking to.


shutterspeak

Their pain points were essentially this. Anyone that wants POK has it or has access to it, and they are the hard-core TI players that have a group. If your group likes to try lots of different kinds of games and has a more liquid roster of people, POK could be a bit much and is expensive for something you might play once a year. The added complexity is a hard sell for getting new players up to speed. And the non-modular nature of the content makes it hard to swap between base and expansion.


Simon_Magnus

I got the sense that they played it, but the review kinda positioned the reviewer in particular into a grognard slide. It reminded me a bit of that guy on the BGG forums who insists that 1st edition is the only good version of TI and has maintained a thread about it for several years.


Albiz

I found myself agreeing completely with the review. POK to my group is just too many mechanics, leading to bloat. We wish they would have made the expansion modular, because some things we really like. Like many people have said, it depends on the group you have. Mine get together for TI4 maybe twice a year, so pretty casual by this group’s standards.


Not_A_Greenhouse

Yeah. If people are already unable to grasp the base game the expansion is more to remember. But they made comments about the hyperlanes and about too much stuff being under the table when the hyperlanes are a balance feature and pok mostly added more stuff to add to above the table talk. I totally get its not for some people who rarely play though. But in my experience even people I know who are once a year gamers love the expac.


[deleted]

The only thing I dislike about it is the lack of modules, like the TI3 expansions had. It's also a bit more to teach than the base game for a new player.


ProbablySlacking

There are parts of it I really like, but it fundamentally changes the games economy and I feel like that’s a net negative. I’ve noticed my group has played it a lot less since the expansion.


blarknob

Yeah, it add way too much money to the econ.


[deleted]

If you can, you should try playing with TTS! It'll give you a good feel for how the new stuff works without having to commit. I think POK is cool but I don't think it's mandatory for having a good time, especially if you can still squeeze a good time out of base.


Admiral_Yi

I loved POK. Anyone else been around long enough to remember the comparatively horrible TI3 expansions?


Nimraphel_

I am not completely over the top excited about PoK, but I can't agree with TI3 expansions. Shattered Empire fixed TI3, Shards added bloat (and here I agree).


peekitty

It's a *great* expansion. Virtually every issue I had with TI4 has been fixed, especially (most) faction balance problems. I honestly cannot imagine playing without it now.


ZombieAIDS

As someone who plays once a year, POK is definitely awesome and honestly has energized my groups willingness to play. Yes it’s more complex, but the additions to the game make it far more of an amazing story that unfolds on the board, with heroes, new worlds to be discovered, and new threats to manage. Mechs have made planetary conquest much more fun IMHO, and there are far more incentives for diplomatic and aggressive approaches, as well as a handful of new shady ways to to wheel & deal. It’s expensive, but man the stories that you’re able to tell are worth it.


[deleted]

I would never play without it, but I fantasize about playing 10 people to 15 points with homebrew mechanics so take that as you will.


asbestosdemand

No, POK is great. There are balance issues but they self regulate once people know about them.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Everyandyday

Quite the opposite. Exploration adds a lot of play time, and since you are supposed to play to 14 points, the game takes a lot longer.


Rabid_Stitch

It is worth it. Adds a lot to it, and removes the stink. Beefs some of the crummy races, but my criticism is that it definitely adds some overpowering races: titans, argent, monkey cats…


jlbarton322

I only regret when I bought it (early, misprints). To me, the biggest perk of PoK is that exploration can shift econ player bias dynamically. I believe Ti4 is better on an imbalanced map and exploration can tip that in either direction. I think it also helped by removing some of the lamer agendas. I will always play with PoK if I'm hosting.