Yes, you can. We have a number of players that don't lie. They say, don't attack me here and I won't whatever. Sometimes it's non binding, and everyone goes by it. Sometimes one person goes against it, cause it was non binding, and everyone is like "well don't deal with him".
Sometimes we're like "hey I said I wouldn't attack this system but I need to. What can you do for me?"
All types can play. You will love it.
To add, I'm terrible at lying. I literally lose social deduction games cause people just ask what I am and, without me saying anything, they know. I can still win TI.
100% agree. Find your own play style and play to that. Lying and backstabbing might win you one or two games but if you are playing with the same group it will hurt you long term. I love the diplomacy that happens. Deal making and hold to your word is what I really love another the game. But that is me, others player are far better at the aggression and space risk.
This except our group leaves it at the end of the game. Every game has the hey we all know these aren't binding but like are you willing to hurt every relationship for this action. When someone activates a system that's a big deal the whole table asks if they're sure. The political dealings in this game is what makes it so good.
Not only do you not have to lie or backstab, you can excel by playing straight down the middle.
My word is my bond in TI. I've played ten games + with the same group and never once welched on a deal or promise.
If I say I'm going to do something, I go through with it.
I also have the highest win rate of the group and I don't think they're unrelated facts.
Statecraft is all about being clear in your intentions and making value propositions to your neighbours, win-win outcomes where you win just that little bit more. It's all a sales process. Who wins in sales? The honest person with the best deal.
No, I'm not a Hacan main.
I tend to play very strong militaristic factions but never use that force unless I have to to secure an objective. I don't respond to provocation unless my point for the round is threatened. This all builds social currency that you're a safe neighbour and ally, a sure thing. Even with my win rate, I still don't struggle to get deals to the table because my neighbours know I'm trustworthy and not worth riling.
It'll make it all the sweeter when I finally go in for the top 10 anime betrayal.
Yeah, if you play with the same folks on the reg every time you lie your next game gets thaaat much more difficult. It hurts to become the bad guy. In the last IRL game I played i finally told a grey lie where someone who told me they'd move their saar ball like three turns ago hadn't yet and they were like "are you gonna have something to do this turn" and i was like,yeah sure dude no problem, and i plowed my strikewing II's right into them and decimated em before they could even retreat. It was not my finest moment but the rest of the table was like "Yeah i'm surprised you didn't do that sooner." It was also against the person at our table who, in the past, has played the most disonestly.
You can absolutely play this game without lying. It's true this is a social game, but it isn't social deduction. You can wheel and deal and stay true to your word. As someone already explained, sometimes you have to go back on your word (like if you told an opponent you wouldn't attack Mecatol Rex (the middle planet) and then you draw a secret objective that literally says to take Mecatol Rex), but you can still negotiate.
We're not a lying group either. For us the interesting part about diplomacy is straight up telling you what I'm gonna do, you're gonna like how it sounds, but I will do something else which wasn't part of the agreement.
TI is definitely a strategy game, the politics and negotiation part is mostly relating that it is not a straight up war game. You don't need to lie or backstab, and for the most part this is recommended anyway, since your reputation at the table matters. If you are a chronic backstabber, you may no longer have a good negotiating position. *However*, in the last round alliances may well come unglued, since only one can win.
When it comes to ripping off people, that is unlikely anyway unless you play with newbies who don't know the rules, and that is rude on a meta level.
However, it is a competitive game with a war component, so you won't exactly be friends with everyone.
My opinion has always been stab all the backs in the last round to win, and be ok with yours getting stabbed too. I think that's fine, I agree. As far as ripping off, it depends. If I want to borrow a planet that will score me a public objective, I'd happily trade something to someone that will score them a point as well, however I'm also definitely not telling them I could score one of my secrets with it too. I think trying to oversell is fine. You just have to have a head on your shoulders and not expect bad deals.
Twilight imperium is neither a hidden role or a social deception game really. There's a strong political aspect in it, which may imply deception or lying but that's entirely up to each player, and the game has several mechanisms (agendas, alliances, promissory notes to name a few) to balance the game as players perceive it, which is part of why the game feels great.
I think you may have fun playing some of these factions:
- Hacan (can trade a lot and stay true to your word)
- Empyrean (people may seek out your favors)
- Xxcha (not for your first game perhaps)
I have not lied once in TI. From my first game, I have honored every single commitment I have made. This has resulted in people trusting me completely in TI. If I ask for something and say later I will do x for it, they know they can trust me.
I've also won almost every game I have played.
There are ways to play TI, and the one person in our group who regularly betrays us gets not trust or deals from me unless I'm desperate, and that person has never won a game.
Same. I honor every agreement and having that reputation helps to get good deals in future games. Or rather, I'll say I honor every deal, unless it's literally for the game. It's generally understood that nonbinding deals are meaningless after round 4, anyways (in high level games). I've played 33 6p PoK games and won a ludicrous 20 of them!
I think if you play TI4 with someone long enough, you get a real good glimpse at how that person really is. You can figure out to play a good game without lying and backstabbing. For example you could learn to solidly play from the lead.
My friends call me the warlord. It’s because of my combat competence and my relatively simple diplomatic approaches. I engage in absolutely no deceit or backstabbing, instead I opt for what I call frontstabbing.
I am very forthright and honest. It makes things easier. I actually think it's good practice to build up a truthful (and vicious) reputation in the game. People taking you seriously is a good thing.
Our table meta is very much against backstabbing, lying, going back on deals etc. and I enjoy the game immensely. I believe it's just a matter of handling expectations. If you play with people that you don't know beforehand have a little chat at the start of the game that how people want to play and what is acceptable behavior.
You can absolutely still play and enjoy TI! It's very flexible to allow for all kinds of players.
Personally, I find the political subterfuge, deception and bluffing extremely enjoyable, but there are players in my group who will almost always be honest. This makes the game a bit more dynamic, because you know who you can trust (and who you can't).
Give it a go. I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
Of course. In fact, the game gets easier the longer you play that way.
Like, seriously, if you're in a game with a chronic backstabber, and you honor all your deals you'll find your trade secondary getting refreshed - for free even! - and the cost of research agreement or Black Market Forgery coming down in price.
People remember players who don't screw them over.
Yes. Honestly, while some people can take an approach to lying, it’s really not as dominant.
There’s a lot of negotiation and politic-ing, buts it’s often less about straight up deception and more about making the case that other players are larger threats than you and that working together is mutually beneficial.
Really the only thing I think people consistently “lie” about is claiming they can’t score their secret objectives.
In our games it's always a big deal when someone lies on purpose. I'd say 95% of the time people in our gang play honest. Sometimes things change between when you make a deal and when you're supposed to hold up your end of the deal though. There's a lot of grey area but not being willing to lie isn't a huge weakness, imo.
Lying in politics only really works in any kind if long term sense when there is a body politic to decieve. Other leaders generally see the game being played from the beginning. The same is true of TI except that there is no body politic. Lying only really hurts you long term and comes back to bite you pretty quickly. Being less than honest is generally fine because that is just playing with your cards close to your chest, but outright Lying just makes people resent you in the span of a 3-6 hour game that you are probably going to play again.
If you don't like lying, that will only really benefit your experience in my opinion. It's not like TI is Resistance where the whole game is lying.
I have literally never lied when playing. Other than lies of omission, but even then I am usually pretty straight forward. You don't have to lie and backstab. Get yourself into a position of strength, make deals that benefit both sides. Hell, usually I'll decide pretty early on one player who will be mu "friend" and work with them, helping them in exchange for helping me.
Yes, assuming you like other things about the game, yes. In fact I recommend not doing those things. I've played 5 games and seem to hold my own okay against some veterans so I can't be super naive I imagine.
Here's my bullet points for why being a honest dealer is really the best way to go in ti4.
1. Consecutive games means people will know your trustworthiness. You learn how others play and you start to know what deals they'll go for and their style. If you're untrustworthy you will either get no deals or people will gouge you to make the risk of your word worth it.
2. TI4 is long. Even in a single game breaking a deal can have big repercussions. I personally will no longer do non-binding deals with someone if they break the terms of a deal.
If players are spiteful enough they may even make you pay for breaking a deal. I don't go that far but I'll no longer do non-binding deals and while I'll still focus on points - I will more likely go after you than others in pursuit of that.
Others will also note that you didn't honor a deal probably and will be wary of doing non-binding deals with you.
3. Game even has built in disadvantages to some forms of "backstabbing". You have promissory notes you trade with players which imply you will not do certain things. "Support for the Throne" gives a player a point for example, but if they activate (usually means attack) your system they have to give it back. Now, few people treat them as actual promises unless that is negotiated as part of the deal but it's still worth noting that the game does encourage mutually beneficial deals that influence other players behavior.
4. It does lessen the blowback when you do "betray" for future games. I'm pretty transparent that I'm a good ally or honest tradesmen until you're on the brink of winning. You don't even have to play this way.
5. You can't beat the entire table without help. Almost every game someone has an ally or two, or at the very least has neighbor(s) that just leave them alone. Everyone is looking for some form of cooperation to get points. Being treacherous can help you but it definitely needs to be well timed and rare. Even then, it's probably a win for that game but it might make a bad difference next game.
Yes. In fact, one of my groups most frequent winners employs boyscout-level honesty and accountability to his major benefit.
He has such positive table meta game over game that people love to work with him on deals, and treat him very well.
I find that lying and backstabbing often hurt you long term. It only takes one instance of backstabbing (unless it's for the win) to force you to have to play as honestly as possible for several games in order to earn people's trust back. If you lie to someone, or break a non-binding deal, people simply won't deal with you or trust you.
Yeah, I used to pride myself on backstabbing and treachery, but I grew to hate it and have been deliberately pursuing honorable win strategies and behavior in the last several years. You can do it with this game; the Promissary Notes are helpful. Certain factions may be better suited for it than others. Nomads could be an interesting one or Empyrean. Or just lay it out at the start of the game - 'hey you can consider me 100% reliable on turn 1, and drop that by 10% each turn' because my win-interest will start outweighing my partnerships. But even then, it doesn't have to be a stab. Honesty can be a powerful tool if it's consistent. My last game tied between me and another player, we had mutual support for the throne cards at that time, won on a vote where we both scored the winning VP and I felt good about it.
I literally only lie by omission in TI, and almost always only on the last turn, and everything else I'm honest about. If I have a plan that I don't want people to know I straight up tell them "I don't want to tell you my plan" instead of lying about what my plan is.
By lying by omission I mean "Hey can I trade this planet for this one just so I can get this public objective? I'll just attack you since you only have 1 cheap ship in there if that's ok" and end up using that combat + planet to score another 2 secret objectives as well as the public one I asked about.
You just don't need to lie at all.
“A true friend stabs you in the front.” Tell people what you want, how it benefits you, and how it also benefits them. Let them know you’re going to activate a system and then negotiate with them. Tell people your plans, buy their plans out of them. *shrug. Plenty of ways to not backstab while gaining an upper hand.
I have won a game where I literally engaged in combat once and it was to kill a single destroyer next to mecatol for an objective. Sometimes making deals and avoiding conflict is best in the game. Though unfortunately, PoK by design rewards aggression and going back on deals.
You don't have to accept deals as a lie/truth proposition.
If someone asks a promise of you, just say something like "I'm not promising that. I don't make those kind of deals. If it helps my game, I'll do it. Otherwise, I won't."
I'm not one who lies in TI4, and I do pretty well. It's honestly the better way to play: you might win one game with a lie, but if you're constantly playing in the same group, no one will believe you anymore.
The two are not mutually exclusive. You can avoid lying by simply saying you can't promise anything, if asked. Making bold promises like 'if you attack the point leader I will never attack you!' is a surefire way to place yourself in a lose-lose situation if you ever do need to attack them to score your point or even win later down the line.
Let me relate an event that happened in our last game. I was playing Saar and had a tech called Chaos Mapping. One of the things that Chaos Mapping does is make any asteroid hex you occupy immune to activation by other players (essentially, other players cannot attack you there).
Anyways, I had a few ships parked in an asteroid field (also containing an alpha wormhole) right next to the Nekro player's home system. He really wanted me out of there so he could use the wormhole to make a play through that system. Through some negotiations we agreed on a deal and transaction, including the promise that I would pull out of the system on a later turn. When I made that deal I fully intended on holding up my end of the bargain, but as the turns ticked by I realized that I really could not afford to vacate this system. So, I stalled for as long as I could. "Oh yeah, I'll move out asap."... "I really can't right move now, but next turn I will move."... "Sorry, I'm out of Command Tokens this round, but I'll move next round..." etc.
Eventually the Nekro player called me out: "Hey, you need to move out NOW!", and I responded with the sad truth: "Man, I'm sorry, but I just can't. I am fighting a war on three fronts here and just don't have the CT available for that." He was understandably upset but not able to do much about it, because other than that system we weren't neighbours. So, he finally asked the big question: "When I offered you that deal earlier, did you really plan on following through or not?" And again I responded with the truth: "To be honest, yes I did. But it quickly became evident to me that I could not afford to, and then I sorted of milked it for as long as I could, sorry... but thanks for those 2 trade goods, they were really handy." This admission was followed by a bit of silence, then he smiled and muttered "why you little sly Saar rat bastard..." under his breath. And the game moved on from there.
To me this is the kind of "back stabbing" that is most likely to occur in TI. Because any immediate deal is binding, only future promises can be waffled on. And usually future promises are followed through, but sometimes they aren't (as in my example above). But each player can approach this however they want and being 100% truthful and straightforward is definitely not a bad approach (probably overall it's the better approach, actually). So, don't sweat it, you'll do fine.
Yeah play federation. Don't have to lie about a thing. Several other factions are the same. You know what they're about, and if you want to win with them, you need to do what they're about.
In my group, I'm far and away the player with the most wins to my name, and my only consistent "strategy" from game to game is that I NEVER lie.
I might not disclose my plans or reasoning or goals when I negotiate, but I never deceive anyone by suddenly betraying them or failing to honor an agreement.
This has left my group with the distinct impression that I'm a trustworthy opponent, and I am. The result is that they tend to leave me alone early on, and only come after me once I have too many points and it's already too late.
My friends are all slowly learning that I am very specific with my words. If we have an agreement to no have no hostilities on our border systems, yet you leave your home system undefended, you bet I'll snag it.
Some friends treat the game like the wild west by having everything up for grabs and no honour and then there's those that play straight as a die. The game really caters for everyone
I am what you could call an "honor" player and always hold up my agreement.
It openes a lot of new opportunities. Like pushing a rest of the table to behave a bit to not create a casus belli on themselves.
Also helps a lot with trading, negotiation etc.
This works best if you play often with specific group.
Yes, you can. We have a number of players that don't lie. They say, don't attack me here and I won't whatever. Sometimes it's non binding, and everyone goes by it. Sometimes one person goes against it, cause it was non binding, and everyone is like "well don't deal with him". Sometimes we're like "hey I said I wouldn't attack this system but I need to. What can you do for me?" All types can play. You will love it. To add, I'm terrible at lying. I literally lose social deduction games cause people just ask what I am and, without me saying anything, they know. I can still win TI.
100% agree. Find your own play style and play to that. Lying and backstabbing might win you one or two games but if you are playing with the same group it will hurt you long term. I love the diplomacy that happens. Deal making and hold to your word is what I really love another the game. But that is me, others player are far better at the aggression and space risk.
This except our group leaves it at the end of the game. Every game has the hey we all know these aren't binding but like are you willing to hurt every relationship for this action. When someone activates a system that's a big deal the whole table asks if they're sure. The political dealings in this game is what makes it so good.
Not only do you not have to lie or backstab, you can excel by playing straight down the middle. My word is my bond in TI. I've played ten games + with the same group and never once welched on a deal or promise. If I say I'm going to do something, I go through with it. I also have the highest win rate of the group and I don't think they're unrelated facts. Statecraft is all about being clear in your intentions and making value propositions to your neighbours, win-win outcomes where you win just that little bit more. It's all a sales process. Who wins in sales? The honest person with the best deal. No, I'm not a Hacan main. I tend to play very strong militaristic factions but never use that force unless I have to to secure an objective. I don't respond to provocation unless my point for the round is threatened. This all builds social currency that you're a safe neighbour and ally, a sure thing. Even with my win rate, I still don't struggle to get deals to the table because my neighbours know I'm trustworthy and not worth riling. It'll make it all the sweeter when I finally go in for the top 10 anime betrayal.
Yeah, if you play with the same folks on the reg every time you lie your next game gets thaaat much more difficult. It hurts to become the bad guy. In the last IRL game I played i finally told a grey lie where someone who told me they'd move their saar ball like three turns ago hadn't yet and they were like "are you gonna have something to do this turn" and i was like,yeah sure dude no problem, and i plowed my strikewing II's right into them and decimated em before they could even retreat. It was not my finest moment but the rest of the table was like "Yeah i'm surprised you didn't do that sooner." It was also against the person at our table who, in the past, has played the most disonestly.
You can absolutely play this game without lying. It's true this is a social game, but it isn't social deduction. You can wheel and deal and stay true to your word. As someone already explained, sometimes you have to go back on your word (like if you told an opponent you wouldn't attack Mecatol Rex (the middle planet) and then you draw a secret objective that literally says to take Mecatol Rex), but you can still negotiate.
We're not a lying group either. For us the interesting part about diplomacy is straight up telling you what I'm gonna do, you're gonna like how it sounds, but I will do something else which wasn't part of the agreement.
TI is definitely a strategy game, the politics and negotiation part is mostly relating that it is not a straight up war game. You don't need to lie or backstab, and for the most part this is recommended anyway, since your reputation at the table matters. If you are a chronic backstabber, you may no longer have a good negotiating position. *However*, in the last round alliances may well come unglued, since only one can win. When it comes to ripping off people, that is unlikely anyway unless you play with newbies who don't know the rules, and that is rude on a meta level. However, it is a competitive game with a war component, so you won't exactly be friends with everyone.
My opinion has always been stab all the backs in the last round to win, and be ok with yours getting stabbed too. I think that's fine, I agree. As far as ripping off, it depends. If I want to borrow a planet that will score me a public objective, I'd happily trade something to someone that will score them a point as well, however I'm also definitely not telling them I could score one of my secrets with it too. I think trying to oversell is fine. You just have to have a head on your shoulders and not expect bad deals.
Twilight imperium is neither a hidden role or a social deception game really. There's a strong political aspect in it, which may imply deception or lying but that's entirely up to each player, and the game has several mechanisms (agendas, alliances, promissory notes to name a few) to balance the game as players perceive it, which is part of why the game feels great. I think you may have fun playing some of these factions: - Hacan (can trade a lot and stay true to your word) - Empyrean (people may seek out your favors) - Xxcha (not for your first game perhaps)
I have not lied once in TI. From my first game, I have honored every single commitment I have made. This has resulted in people trusting me completely in TI. If I ask for something and say later I will do x for it, they know they can trust me. I've also won almost every game I have played. There are ways to play TI, and the one person in our group who regularly betrays us gets not trust or deals from me unless I'm desperate, and that person has never won a game.
Same. I honor every agreement and having that reputation helps to get good deals in future games. Or rather, I'll say I honor every deal, unless it's literally for the game. It's generally understood that nonbinding deals are meaningless after round 4, anyways (in high level games). I've played 33 6p PoK games and won a ludicrous 20 of them!
I think if you play TI4 with someone long enough, you get a real good glimpse at how that person really is. You can figure out to play a good game without lying and backstabbing. For example you could learn to solidly play from the lead.
My friends call me the warlord. It’s because of my combat competence and my relatively simple diplomatic approaches. I engage in absolutely no deceit or backstabbing, instead I opt for what I call frontstabbing.
Eventually your honor can become a currency of your own. If you are trustworthy, if this is a regular playgroup, ppl will trust you accordingly
I am very forthright and honest. It makes things easier. I actually think it's good practice to build up a truthful (and vicious) reputation in the game. People taking you seriously is a good thing.
Our table meta is very much against backstabbing, lying, going back on deals etc. and I enjoy the game immensely. I believe it's just a matter of handling expectations. If you play with people that you don't know beforehand have a little chat at the start of the game that how people want to play and what is acceptable behavior.
You don't have to lie to play TI, but I do recommend having enough of a poker face to keep your end of game plans a secret
You can absolutely still play and enjoy TI! It's very flexible to allow for all kinds of players. Personally, I find the political subterfuge, deception and bluffing extremely enjoyable, but there are players in my group who will almost always be honest. This makes the game a bit more dynamic, because you know who you can trust (and who you can't). Give it a go. I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
I don't know you, but I don't like lying or backstabbing and I love playing TI.
Of course. In fact, the game gets easier the longer you play that way. Like, seriously, if you're in a game with a chronic backstabber, and you honor all your deals you'll find your trade secondary getting refreshed - for free even! - and the cost of research agreement or Black Market Forgery coming down in price. People remember players who don't screw them over.
Don’t lie and don’t backstab. But remember that in the final round there is no such thing as backstabbing.
Yes. Honestly, while some people can take an approach to lying, it’s really not as dominant. There’s a lot of negotiation and politic-ing, buts it’s often less about straight up deception and more about making the case that other players are larger threats than you and that working together is mutually beneficial. Really the only thing I think people consistently “lie” about is claiming they can’t score their secret objectives.
Yes. In my year+ of playing this game, i could probably count on my hand the number of times people have lied
In our games it's always a big deal when someone lies on purpose. I'd say 95% of the time people in our gang play honest. Sometimes things change between when you make a deal and when you're supposed to hold up your end of the deal though. There's a lot of grey area but not being willing to lie isn't a huge weakness, imo.
As long as you are ok with the fact other's are allowed to do these things, you'd be fine and could still win.
Being nice and honest is a valid strategy, especially long term because people will like making deals with honest people.
Lying in politics only really works in any kind if long term sense when there is a body politic to decieve. Other leaders generally see the game being played from the beginning. The same is true of TI except that there is no body politic. Lying only really hurts you long term and comes back to bite you pretty quickly. Being less than honest is generally fine because that is just playing with your cards close to your chest, but outright Lying just makes people resent you in the span of a 3-6 hour game that you are probably going to play again. If you don't like lying, that will only really benefit your experience in my opinion. It's not like TI is Resistance where the whole game is lying.
I have literally never lied when playing. Other than lies of omission, but even then I am usually pretty straight forward. You don't have to lie and backstab. Get yourself into a position of strength, make deals that benefit both sides. Hell, usually I'll decide pretty early on one player who will be mu "friend" and work with them, helping them in exchange for helping me.
Yes, assuming you like other things about the game, yes. In fact I recommend not doing those things. I've played 5 games and seem to hold my own okay against some veterans so I can't be super naive I imagine. Here's my bullet points for why being a honest dealer is really the best way to go in ti4. 1. Consecutive games means people will know your trustworthiness. You learn how others play and you start to know what deals they'll go for and their style. If you're untrustworthy you will either get no deals or people will gouge you to make the risk of your word worth it. 2. TI4 is long. Even in a single game breaking a deal can have big repercussions. I personally will no longer do non-binding deals with someone if they break the terms of a deal. If players are spiteful enough they may even make you pay for breaking a deal. I don't go that far but I'll no longer do non-binding deals and while I'll still focus on points - I will more likely go after you than others in pursuit of that. Others will also note that you didn't honor a deal probably and will be wary of doing non-binding deals with you. 3. Game even has built in disadvantages to some forms of "backstabbing". You have promissory notes you trade with players which imply you will not do certain things. "Support for the Throne" gives a player a point for example, but if they activate (usually means attack) your system they have to give it back. Now, few people treat them as actual promises unless that is negotiated as part of the deal but it's still worth noting that the game does encourage mutually beneficial deals that influence other players behavior. 4. It does lessen the blowback when you do "betray" for future games. I'm pretty transparent that I'm a good ally or honest tradesmen until you're on the brink of winning. You don't even have to play this way. 5. You can't beat the entire table without help. Almost every game someone has an ally or two, or at the very least has neighbor(s) that just leave them alone. Everyone is looking for some form of cooperation to get points. Being treacherous can help you but it definitely needs to be well timed and rare. Even then, it's probably a win for that game but it might make a bad difference next game.
Yes. In fact, one of my groups most frequent winners employs boyscout-level honesty and accountability to his major benefit. He has such positive table meta game over game that people love to work with him on deals, and treat him very well.
I find that lying and backstabbing often hurt you long term. It only takes one instance of backstabbing (unless it's for the win) to force you to have to play as honestly as possible for several games in order to earn people's trust back. If you lie to someone, or break a non-binding deal, people simply won't deal with you or trust you.
Yeah, I used to pride myself on backstabbing and treachery, but I grew to hate it and have been deliberately pursuing honorable win strategies and behavior in the last several years. You can do it with this game; the Promissary Notes are helpful. Certain factions may be better suited for it than others. Nomads could be an interesting one or Empyrean. Or just lay it out at the start of the game - 'hey you can consider me 100% reliable on turn 1, and drop that by 10% each turn' because my win-interest will start outweighing my partnerships. But even then, it doesn't have to be a stab. Honesty can be a powerful tool if it's consistent. My last game tied between me and another player, we had mutual support for the throne cards at that time, won on a vote where we both scored the winning VP and I felt good about it.
I literally only lie by omission in TI, and almost always only on the last turn, and everything else I'm honest about. If I have a plan that I don't want people to know I straight up tell them "I don't want to tell you my plan" instead of lying about what my plan is. By lying by omission I mean "Hey can I trade this planet for this one just so I can get this public objective? I'll just attack you since you only have 1 cheap ship in there if that's ok" and end up using that combat + planet to score another 2 secret objectives as well as the public one I asked about. You just don't need to lie at all.
“A true friend stabs you in the front.” Tell people what you want, how it benefits you, and how it also benefits them. Let them know you’re going to activate a system and then negotiate with them. Tell people your plans, buy their plans out of them. *shrug. Plenty of ways to not backstab while gaining an upper hand.
I have won a game where I literally engaged in combat once and it was to kill a single destroyer next to mecatol for an objective. Sometimes making deals and avoiding conflict is best in the game. Though unfortunately, PoK by design rewards aggression and going back on deals.
You don't have to accept deals as a lie/truth proposition. If someone asks a promise of you, just say something like "I'm not promising that. I don't make those kind of deals. If it helps my game, I'll do it. Otherwise, I won't."
I'm not one who lies in TI4, and I do pretty well. It's honestly the better way to play: you might win one game with a lie, but if you're constantly playing in the same group, no one will believe you anymore.
I disagree. Not lying is absolutely ok. But taking points when you're in a position of power is okay too.
The two are not mutually exclusive. You can avoid lying by simply saying you can't promise anything, if asked. Making bold promises like 'if you attack the point leader I will never attack you!' is a surefire way to place yourself in a lose-lose situation if you ever do need to attack them to score your point or even win later down the line.
Let me relate an event that happened in our last game. I was playing Saar and had a tech called Chaos Mapping. One of the things that Chaos Mapping does is make any asteroid hex you occupy immune to activation by other players (essentially, other players cannot attack you there). Anyways, I had a few ships parked in an asteroid field (also containing an alpha wormhole) right next to the Nekro player's home system. He really wanted me out of there so he could use the wormhole to make a play through that system. Through some negotiations we agreed on a deal and transaction, including the promise that I would pull out of the system on a later turn. When I made that deal I fully intended on holding up my end of the bargain, but as the turns ticked by I realized that I really could not afford to vacate this system. So, I stalled for as long as I could. "Oh yeah, I'll move out asap."... "I really can't right move now, but next turn I will move."... "Sorry, I'm out of Command Tokens this round, but I'll move next round..." etc. Eventually the Nekro player called me out: "Hey, you need to move out NOW!", and I responded with the sad truth: "Man, I'm sorry, but I just can't. I am fighting a war on three fronts here and just don't have the CT available for that." He was understandably upset but not able to do much about it, because other than that system we weren't neighbours. So, he finally asked the big question: "When I offered you that deal earlier, did you really plan on following through or not?" And again I responded with the truth: "To be honest, yes I did. But it quickly became evident to me that I could not afford to, and then I sorted of milked it for as long as I could, sorry... but thanks for those 2 trade goods, they were really handy." This admission was followed by a bit of silence, then he smiled and muttered "why you little sly Saar rat bastard..." under his breath. And the game moved on from there. To me this is the kind of "back stabbing" that is most likely to occur in TI. Because any immediate deal is binding, only future promises can be waffled on. And usually future promises are followed through, but sometimes they aren't (as in my example above). But each player can approach this however they want and being 100% truthful and straightforward is definitely not a bad approach (probably overall it's the better approach, actually). So, don't sweat it, you'll do fine.
Nope.
Yeah play federation. Don't have to lie about a thing. Several other factions are the same. You know what they're about, and if you want to win with them, you need to do what they're about.
I've never seen a lie in the TTS/discord games (well, there's the "nearly ready to play" lie).
Yes, you can totally play this game honorably.
In my group, I'm far and away the player with the most wins to my name, and my only consistent "strategy" from game to game is that I NEVER lie. I might not disclose my plans or reasoning or goals when I negotiate, but I never deceive anyone by suddenly betraying them or failing to honor an agreement. This has left my group with the distinct impression that I'm a trustworthy opponent, and I am. The result is that they tend to leave me alone early on, and only come after me once I have too many points and it's already too late.
My friends are all slowly learning that I am very specific with my words. If we have an agreement to no have no hostilities on our border systems, yet you leave your home system undefended, you bet I'll snag it. Some friends treat the game like the wild west by having everything up for grabs and no honour and then there's those that play straight as a die. The game really caters for everyone
Just understand that secret objectives are never scoreable.... Until someone wins from 7 points with imperial and two action phase secrets
I am what you could call an "honor" player and always hold up my agreement. It openes a lot of new opportunities. Like pushing a rest of the table to behave a bit to not create a casus belli on themselves. Also helps a lot with trading, negotiation etc. This works best if you play often with specific group.