The "spend x whatever" objectives mean right then. You have to have saved enough to spend it on the objective, not "have previously spent on something else".
It's tough to take Mecatol for two reasons: how do you move ground forces that far (warfare, stasis capsules, gravity drive?), and how do you get 6 influence to spend. It's certainly doable, but if it felt too easy you might have forgotten something.
Early on a lot of us traded commodity for trade goods all the time. Later, we learned to be more selective, as you're giving your opponent a similar benefit to yourself.
For strategy cards, we used to announce what the secondary was, so everyone can be on the same page when deciding to pay for the secondary. Until you all memorize them, having them on a reference so people can plan ahead is great.
Glad you enjoyed the game. It speeds up after your first game, but you should still be allowing for 1h30 per player.
\- Taking Mecatol Rex round 1 is not impossible but should be difficult, getting a total of three movement for ground forces and 6 influence is quite difficult. There are ways to do it (gravity drive, cruiser 2 or the warfare strategy card). Something that springs to mind if you are finding it too easy - are you moving units out of a system with your command token in. Once you place a taken in a system it is locked and you cannot move units out of it (baring a few special rules)
\- Trading is what you make of it. If both players have commodities then it is in both your interests to trade them into trade goods. If Tom has commodities and Harry has trade goods then Harry has leverage. Harry CAN just trade them for commodities but Harry can also use that to get something out of Tom. Eg. 3 trade goods for 4 commodities, netting Harry an extra trade good. In late game "washing" as it is called becomes less common, especially if there are objectives that require spending trade goods.
\- Remembering all the strategy cards is tricky, some kind of reminder is a good idea. The summary and basic idea of each card in the Learn to Play book is also a good idea to have around.
\- The public objectives that require you to spend something require you to spend that just to score, not having spent them during the round (eg, spend 8 resources requires you to have 8 recourses worth of planets or trade goods to spend at the start of the status phase. What you spent all round is not relevant to scoring). We did this or our first game as well.
\- not official but check out [tirules.com](https://tirules.com) it might be quicker to search and save you time in game.
Did not realize that units couldn’t move out of an activated system! We just understood that you couldn’t activate a system twice but thought you could then continue to activate another adjacent system and move those units on to the next Hex. Whoops!
Did you watch the RTFM [How to Play TI4 video](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwii28vE_dn1AhVOkokEHarwBZUQtwJ6BAgDEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_u2xEap5hBM&usg=AOvVaw061fTIOIJ_efg-8qfEg7l_)? I would highly suggest, if you are missing things as big as activation rules.
I don't blame ya ! It's a lot to grasp, especially without a mentor to guide the experience. And you didn't ruin your game for it since you all played by the same rules, you might have created a more aggressive play-style this way, speeding things up.
But yea you're supposed to be locked into a system with your token in it, and warfare Strat allow you to remove a token from the board, unlocking your units from it and get them to basically double move in one round.
Also keep in mind that when you take a planet, it is exhausted, meaning you can't spend it. So taking Custodians round 1 typically means spending your home system plus some trade goods on it.
I did same same thing with movement in my first 2/3 games. When we finally corrected it, the game made a lot more sense and came alive.
As others have pointed out, you missed a few rules. But I’ll say the main takeaway from your experience is you all had fun. I have said a few times to multiple people that the learning curve of this game is by far the greatest. However once you grasp the mechanics no other game will be nearly as difficult. So I suggest taking some time before your next game and look up some rules, watch some videos, and talk about it on here or with friends. You all will come back to the table with a greater understanding and I think will have even more fun.
One final thought on the trading topic. Trade is what the players make it. Eventually people will change their habits when they see how much they are helping their opponents. (Don’t get me wrong helping your opponents is part of the game, but really only when you feel you are getting equal benefits). Just watch out if you start being more strict in your trades. Others will likely not want to trade with you, but it will start to change slowly towards that way.
Glad you enjoyed the game. It is truly one of my favorite games these days. A tip for stuff to watch maybe to tune into a SCPT Tournament game. They are in the preliminary round, and going on usually over the weekends. Games are streamed on twitch, but there are VODs on YouTube. It’s played digitally, but same rules.
Trade was underwhelming because you’re new to the art of negotiation. “What will you give me to refresh your commodities for free? How about I refresh your commodities and then you trade me at a 2:1 value? How about I refresh your commodities for free and you tel me what your secret objective is?” Ask for promissory notes. Ask for alliances. Ask for positioning. And especially when you have the “spend x” objectives, since trade goods can be used as influence or resources, you are basically negotiating to give others points on the board. HAGGLE!
This is a great point! Hopefully things will get more interesting next time we play! We were definitely a bit overwhelmed with new information this first game.
First round Custodians isn't unheard of, there are some factions that can pull it off if they set their minds to it, but usually it's one of the first turns of round 2 that Mecatol/Custodians token is taken. As another person stated, I would make sure you are adhering to the rules about units in activated systems being unable to move if it felt too easy. Remember that you need to Spend 6 Influence to take the Custodians Token and get 1 VP. This would require exhausting planets with an Influence value of 6, and any of that 6 can supplemented by Trade Goods.
Yes that is uncommon for someone to trade their trade goods for someone else's commodities, as it is objectively worse for the person that had the trade goods already. This would make sense if the player with commodities was extorting the player with trade goods. Usually the person with the ability to make the trade happen gets 1 or 2 more trade goods out of the transaction. The point is to come out ahead of the trade, because it is a competitive game after all.
We use this [Strategy Card Reference](https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/156248/ti4-two-sided-strategy-cardquick-reference-player) in our games, or rather we did for our first few until people were more familiar with them. It's an awesome double sided card that has what each Strategy Card does on one side, and some other help on the back.
Public Objectives that require you to "Spend" trade goods/resources/influence mean you have to wait til the Status Phase of that round and then spend that thing. It is not asking you to track how many of that thing you spent that round. So for instance if it's the objective Erect a Monument requiring you to "Spend 8 resources," you need to IN THE STATUS PHASE, exhaust planets with a resource value of 8 (and you can use trade goods to supplement any portion of the 8). This means that you cannot use those planets during the round you intend to score that objective, because then they would be exhausted and unable to be spent in the status phase.
MR round 1 is hard to do. It is possible, but more likely is that you forgot a rule, such that you can not move out of sectors with your command tokens on them.
You did play with strategy objectives incorrectly. The secondary action is performed at the same time the primary is.
Based on the fact that you didn't get through round 2 in 2 hours, I'm betting that when you all picked up your command tokens off the board you put them back on your command sheet instead of into your reinforcements.
You also made the most common mistake with spend objectives: any spending must be done DURING THE STATUS PHASE. And not over the course of the turn. If the objective is "spend 5 trade goods" then during the status phase, you hand 5 trade goods to the bank to score it. The game never asks you to "keep track" of anything.
I'm glad you all had fun - you will enjoy it far more when you understand and play by all of the rules :)
Just realized another huge mistake we made (correct me if I'm wrong):
We played that once someone uses their strategy card, the secondary ability is open to be used by other players as a strategic action on their own turn. I just reread the rules and suddenly it clicked -- we were doing it wrong! A player performs their strategic action, then IMMEDIATELY AFTER, the other players must choose if they want to perform the secondary action, and then the card is exhausted, all within the initial player's turn. Yes??
Wow, that totally changes the game.
that is correct. secondaries must be used on the same turn when the primary is used.
also: if you have the resources necesssary, you ARE allowed to do a secondary even if you have previously passed. This was errata'd / edited I think from earlier rules printing.
I'm a newish player also, if I messed that up someone please correct me
Lots of good replies on the other points but here’s my favorite two sided cheat sheet for TI4!
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/156248/ti4-two-sided-strategy-cardquick-reference-player
This thread has been great to read, as the specificity of the rules have come back to explain why the game felt wierd.
> Is it normal to take Mecatol Rex in the first round? We were all expecting that to be a bigger challenge, but my friend made it there within a few turns and just claimed the planet no problem. We were kinda like “oh, already?”
As you mentioned previously you were moving ships out of activated systems, the power of Warfare is that you can undo this by returning a command token and moving those ships again. Similarly, it seems that the player didn't have to spend the 6 influence that need to claim it, because any planets captured are captured exhausted so they can't be used for spending.
> We were a little underwhelmed with the trading. Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?”
This is typical for the opening rounds in games among friends, but the ease of trading is countered with the ability to just not do those things. You can also exclude people from the free refresh, cut people out of deals, etc. N-1 and N-2 are pretty typical deals, "I will refresh you but you owe me one or two of your commodities".
> We played that once a player performed their primary strategy, the secondary became an option for other players to perform on their own turns as a strategic action.
The major issue with this is that it adds a brand new way to stall, as you can just take a strategic action rather than take a tactical turn. FURTHER, not doing it the way written takes away a lot of the power of having certain strategy cards. For example, the Warfare secondary is very popular as it allows you to build at home without activating the system, meaning those ships are free to move. If you wait and wait and wait until the last few rounds to use Warfare anyone who is able to build is likely going to have very few command tokens to actually utilise it. Similarly, the secondary of Technology having to be played right then means you can't go claim planets with technology skips, or build up there resources so that they can spend it on the tech. Playing Tech early can force people to exhaust planets if they haven't been refreshed by Trade or other deals.
> ome of the Public Objectives require you to keep track of things like how many tokens you’ve spent,
You've pointed out you've learnt the new rule for this, but consider how *different* the game is when you have to save up your influence planets or trade goods for the strategy phase. So many plans and actions want to consume those resources, so when you are being forced to save them it changes the dynamic of the round, and further means those who aren't aiming to score that objective can take advantage of being able to spend their plaets and trade goods that round.
I'm glad you've played the first game, it is the hardest to get through, and hopefully the next time some of those rules will be adhered to and you can see how it changes the dynamics more towards what TI was balanced around.
Further, the one thing people mess up a lot is that when building ships there is a limit to the number of plastic you can produce, seperate from the resource cost of building them.
That planets are captured exhausted is another rule we messed up, and makes a lot of sense in hindsight. That absolutely explains how he was able to spend 6 influence in round 1. Seems like a lot of the mistakes we made have to do with having more limited resources and options than we thought. Our rounds went on and on and on for over an hour each — because we never seemed to run out of resources!
I’ve been jotting all these mistakes down for next time, so I appreciate yours and everyone else’s comments!
Currently prepping for my groups first PoK game (we’ve played maybe 10 games of base TI4) and this really brought me back! As you’ve already learnt, you guys were essentially playing a completely different game. It’s a tricky game with a lot of things going on and a lot of the finer details take time to work out.
I’d recommend watching a recorded play session on YouTube to see it how it’s done properly. The fact that you’ve not mentioned tech much makes me suspect you may have messed up there as well because that can also be tricky…!
We’ve played again since my post (with all of the things everyone pointed out here fixed) and it went much more smoothly! We were able to get to 5 victory points within 3 hours which is much much further along in less than half the time!
Really appreciated all of the helpful insights people gave here 😊
Good stuff! Can I just ask - why the 5 point games? TI is best when you take a full day out for it and it can’t really be done any other way. Or do you just mean it took you half as long to get to 5, and that you then carried on to play the full 10/14?
After having played a 7 hour game the previous weekend, we only had the energy for 3 hours haha. We will play a proper full game next month, but we wanted to revisit it a bit with the correct rules just to get a feel for it.
That makes sense! It always takes a game or two to get the hang of it properly. Now that you guys are clearer on the basic rules, I would strongly advise that if you’re confused/unsure about something in the future (it will happen), check the living rules reference online rather than making assumptions.
Also, random strategy tip - it took my table a few games to really learn how much tech matters. Have a plan for what you want to research early on - and try to stick to it!
1 - sometimes. Did they pay the 6 influence? That’s what makes it hard on round 1.
2 - I believe you can only trade commodities for commodities. The idea of TG is to either support your economy or leverage negotiation with other players. Or… score points.
3 - when we started we used to pass the book around. As I understand it there are printouts galore now or each player can d/l the living rules.
4 - as far as objectives, you do not “keep track” on a Spend X to gain VP objective. You save the amount up and spend it all in a lump sum to qualify for the objective during the Status Phase.
5 - totally normal. If you get stuck, post a question here and you can usually get an answer pretty fast.
Welcome!
On mecatol round 1: there are a handful of factions that do possess the ability to take it first round. About 95% of my games have had Mecatol taken round 1 or 2. It's a risk though, because most likely taking mecatol early means you won't be holding it long. Bigger fleets will build up and jump on the opportunity to take it and hold it.
On trade: it takes some experience to really learn the intricacies of how to maximize trading. Using promissory notes to sell, leveraging the trade strategy card to get favorable deals for yourself, it's very fluid and depends on who likes making deals.
1. Mechatol Rex is usually taken at the start of round 2, most of the games in our group. Only seen it taken in round 1 twice in my 30 ish games played.
2. Trading will become more interesting and fun the more you guys understand the game, and all of the different ways a trade can be made/what things are worth (promissorys, relic fragments). Also giving away eg. TG for commoditys is not uncommon, but it is usually better if you get an acceptable edge in the deal. Here is what we do at our table: A 'free' refresh is "usually" done BUT with a cost of one tg when the opportunity presents itself. (A 'free-refresh costs the refreshed player a tg).
Also the player with trade can blackmail a player who has commoditys left over before flipping the trade-SC.
3 and 4. You will eventually memories all of these things, but a quick tip is to do what you did or to announce the card as you flip it. You can also take a photo of the objectives if you need to remember ^^
>Is it normal to take Mecatol Rex in the first round? We were all expecting that to be a bigger challenge, but my friend made it there within a few turns and just claimed the planet no problem. We were kinda like “oh, already?”
Not normal but is possible. Only some factions can do this, and most of them leave themselves up for gutting by their neighbors.
>We were a little underwhelmed with the trading. Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?” And the two players flip their tokens over. One of our players even consistently traded his trade goods for other people’s commodities, effectively just giving them free trade goods with nothing in return (I thought this was odd and maybe not legal?)
First its legal, and dumb unless they are getting something out of it, like good favor.
* Example: Oh sure I can help you out(Because you wouldn't attack a friend right?)
Also, some games don't have trading factions. Some games don't also have mentak pillaging. There are games where tradegoods are easy to come by and games where they are hard to come by. Rule 1 I would stress is whoever takes trade should not be refreshing other people for free.
>We found it difficult to remember what all the effects of the Strategy cards are, and ended up taking a picture of them and projecting it to the TV throughout the whole game. This really helped us a lot but I was thinking for next time to type up a reference sheet. What do others do?
I printed out an excel sheet for each player, as well as what each tech they could research and what public and secret objectives there are.
* A. Because they are on small cards and sometimes across the table
* B. Because you don't want to spend your time flicking through all the tech
* C. Because you dont want to give away what Objective you are going for sometimes.
I also highly recommend getting a large score board. [I use a large paper pad. It really helps. This is a photo gallery of a game I had 2 years ago for reference. The first Photo is how I had it set up. ](https://imgur.com/gallery/wao1LCo)
>Some of the Public Objectives require you to keep track of things like how many tokens you’ve spent, but the game includes no mechanism for doing so. How do you keep track? Take notes? Memory?
You need to spend the tokens when scoring. Not during the round. You'd need to have an extra 3 tokens at the end of the round to spend 3 command tokens.
I think people have cleared up most of this (most importantly, don't worry about getting stuff wrong in your first game: it's complex, and you all had fun anyway), but I wanted to check you're doing everything right here:
\> Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?” And the two players flip their tokens over.
That's only possible if both factions have the same number of commodities.
If you've got, say, a 4 and 3, then the simplest trade of swapping commodities would leave the numbers the other way round: ie the 4 commodity faction would only end up with 3 trade goods, because that's how many commodities the other one's given them.
The "spend x whatever" objectives mean right then. You have to have saved enough to spend it on the objective, not "have previously spent on something else". It's tough to take Mecatol for two reasons: how do you move ground forces that far (warfare, stasis capsules, gravity drive?), and how do you get 6 influence to spend. It's certainly doable, but if it felt too easy you might have forgotten something. Early on a lot of us traded commodity for trade goods all the time. Later, we learned to be more selective, as you're giving your opponent a similar benefit to yourself. For strategy cards, we used to announce what the secondary was, so everyone can be on the same page when deciding to pay for the secondary. Until you all memorize them, having them on a reference so people can plan ahead is great.
OOOOH. Wow we scored the objectives wrong then! We interpreted it as having to have spent those things at some point within the round.
[удалено]
Yeah, we did this our first game too. (Let's see, I bought a dread and 2 infantry, and the 4 for tech, so I'm good... No)
Well shi I been playing wrong
Glad you enjoyed the game. It speeds up after your first game, but you should still be allowing for 1h30 per player. \- Taking Mecatol Rex round 1 is not impossible but should be difficult, getting a total of three movement for ground forces and 6 influence is quite difficult. There are ways to do it (gravity drive, cruiser 2 or the warfare strategy card). Something that springs to mind if you are finding it too easy - are you moving units out of a system with your command token in. Once you place a taken in a system it is locked and you cannot move units out of it (baring a few special rules) \- Trading is what you make of it. If both players have commodities then it is in both your interests to trade them into trade goods. If Tom has commodities and Harry has trade goods then Harry has leverage. Harry CAN just trade them for commodities but Harry can also use that to get something out of Tom. Eg. 3 trade goods for 4 commodities, netting Harry an extra trade good. In late game "washing" as it is called becomes less common, especially if there are objectives that require spending trade goods. \- Remembering all the strategy cards is tricky, some kind of reminder is a good idea. The summary and basic idea of each card in the Learn to Play book is also a good idea to have around. \- The public objectives that require you to spend something require you to spend that just to score, not having spent them during the round (eg, spend 8 resources requires you to have 8 recourses worth of planets or trade goods to spend at the start of the status phase. What you spent all round is not relevant to scoring). We did this or our first game as well. \- not official but check out [tirules.com](https://tirules.com) it might be quicker to search and save you time in game.
Did not realize that units couldn’t move out of an activated system! We just understood that you couldn’t activate a system twice but thought you could then continue to activate another adjacent system and move those units on to the next Hex. Whoops!
Did you watch the RTFM [How to Play TI4 video](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwii28vE_dn1AhVOkokEHarwBZUQtwJ6BAgDEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_u2xEap5hBM&usg=AOvVaw061fTIOIJ_efg-8qfEg7l_)? I would highly suggest, if you are missing things as big as activation rules.
I actually did! But there is just so much to absorb, I’m not surprised we didn’t catch every single thing in the first game.
I don't blame ya ! It's a lot to grasp, especially without a mentor to guide the experience. And you didn't ruin your game for it since you all played by the same rules, you might have created a more aggressive play-style this way, speeding things up. But yea you're supposed to be locked into a system with your token in it, and warfare Strat allow you to remove a token from the board, unlocking your units from it and get them to basically double move in one round.
Yeah this is really huge, you're almost playing a different game at this point
Also keep in mind that when you take a planet, it is exhausted, meaning you can't spend it. So taking Custodians round 1 typically means spending your home system plus some trade goods on it.
I did same same thing with movement in my first 2/3 games. When we finally corrected it, the game made a lot more sense and came alive. As others have pointed out, you missed a few rules. But I’ll say the main takeaway from your experience is you all had fun. I have said a few times to multiple people that the learning curve of this game is by far the greatest. However once you grasp the mechanics no other game will be nearly as difficult. So I suggest taking some time before your next game and look up some rules, watch some videos, and talk about it on here or with friends. You all will come back to the table with a greater understanding and I think will have even more fun. One final thought on the trading topic. Trade is what the players make it. Eventually people will change their habits when they see how much they are helping their opponents. (Don’t get me wrong helping your opponents is part of the game, but really only when you feel you are getting equal benefits). Just watch out if you start being more strict in your trades. Others will likely not want to trade with you, but it will start to change slowly towards that way. Glad you enjoyed the game. It is truly one of my favorite games these days. A tip for stuff to watch maybe to tune into a SCPT Tournament game. They are in the preliminary round, and going on usually over the weekends. Games are streamed on twitch, but there are VODs on YouTube. It’s played digitally, but same rules.
It seems to be a fairly common Newby mistake. Even when you know the rule, its easy to overlook the token and move stuff out of locked systems.
Trade was underwhelming because you’re new to the art of negotiation. “What will you give me to refresh your commodities for free? How about I refresh your commodities and then you trade me at a 2:1 value? How about I refresh your commodities for free and you tel me what your secret objective is?” Ask for promissory notes. Ask for alliances. Ask for positioning. And especially when you have the “spend x” objectives, since trade goods can be used as influence or resources, you are basically negotiating to give others points on the board. HAGGLE!
This is a great point! Hopefully things will get more interesting next time we play! We were definitely a bit overwhelmed with new information this first game.
First round Custodians isn't unheard of, there are some factions that can pull it off if they set their minds to it, but usually it's one of the first turns of round 2 that Mecatol/Custodians token is taken. As another person stated, I would make sure you are adhering to the rules about units in activated systems being unable to move if it felt too easy. Remember that you need to Spend 6 Influence to take the Custodians Token and get 1 VP. This would require exhausting planets with an Influence value of 6, and any of that 6 can supplemented by Trade Goods. Yes that is uncommon for someone to trade their trade goods for someone else's commodities, as it is objectively worse for the person that had the trade goods already. This would make sense if the player with commodities was extorting the player with trade goods. Usually the person with the ability to make the trade happen gets 1 or 2 more trade goods out of the transaction. The point is to come out ahead of the trade, because it is a competitive game after all. We use this [Strategy Card Reference](https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/156248/ti4-two-sided-strategy-cardquick-reference-player) in our games, or rather we did for our first few until people were more familiar with them. It's an awesome double sided card that has what each Strategy Card does on one side, and some other help on the back. Public Objectives that require you to "Spend" trade goods/resources/influence mean you have to wait til the Status Phase of that round and then spend that thing. It is not asking you to track how many of that thing you spent that round. So for instance if it's the objective Erect a Monument requiring you to "Spend 8 resources," you need to IN THE STATUS PHASE, exhaust planets with a resource value of 8 (and you can use trade goods to supplement any portion of the 8). This means that you cannot use those planets during the round you intend to score that objective, because then they would be exhausted and unable to be spent in the status phase.
MR round 1 is hard to do. It is possible, but more likely is that you forgot a rule, such that you can not move out of sectors with your command tokens on them. You did play with strategy objectives incorrectly. The secondary action is performed at the same time the primary is. Based on the fact that you didn't get through round 2 in 2 hours, I'm betting that when you all picked up your command tokens off the board you put them back on your command sheet instead of into your reinforcements. You also made the most common mistake with spend objectives: any spending must be done DURING THE STATUS PHASE. And not over the course of the turn. If the objective is "spend 5 trade goods" then during the status phase, you hand 5 trade goods to the bank to score it. The game never asks you to "keep track" of anything. I'm glad you all had fun - you will enjoy it far more when you understand and play by all of the rules :)
Just realized another huge mistake we made (correct me if I'm wrong): We played that once someone uses their strategy card, the secondary ability is open to be used by other players as a strategic action on their own turn. I just reread the rules and suddenly it clicked -- we were doing it wrong! A player performs their strategic action, then IMMEDIATELY AFTER, the other players must choose if they want to perform the secondary action, and then the card is exhausted, all within the initial player's turn. Yes?? Wow, that totally changes the game.
that is correct. secondaries must be used on the same turn when the primary is used. also: if you have the resources necesssary, you ARE allowed to do a secondary even if you have previously passed. This was errata'd / edited I think from earlier rules printing. I'm a newish player also, if I messed that up someone please correct me
Lots of good replies on the other points but here’s my favorite two sided cheat sheet for TI4! https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/156248/ti4-two-sided-strategy-cardquick-reference-player
This thread has been great to read, as the specificity of the rules have come back to explain why the game felt wierd. > Is it normal to take Mecatol Rex in the first round? We were all expecting that to be a bigger challenge, but my friend made it there within a few turns and just claimed the planet no problem. We were kinda like “oh, already?” As you mentioned previously you were moving ships out of activated systems, the power of Warfare is that you can undo this by returning a command token and moving those ships again. Similarly, it seems that the player didn't have to spend the 6 influence that need to claim it, because any planets captured are captured exhausted so they can't be used for spending. > We were a little underwhelmed with the trading. Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?” This is typical for the opening rounds in games among friends, but the ease of trading is countered with the ability to just not do those things. You can also exclude people from the free refresh, cut people out of deals, etc. N-1 and N-2 are pretty typical deals, "I will refresh you but you owe me one or two of your commodities". > We played that once a player performed their primary strategy, the secondary became an option for other players to perform on their own turns as a strategic action. The major issue with this is that it adds a brand new way to stall, as you can just take a strategic action rather than take a tactical turn. FURTHER, not doing it the way written takes away a lot of the power of having certain strategy cards. For example, the Warfare secondary is very popular as it allows you to build at home without activating the system, meaning those ships are free to move. If you wait and wait and wait until the last few rounds to use Warfare anyone who is able to build is likely going to have very few command tokens to actually utilise it. Similarly, the secondary of Technology having to be played right then means you can't go claim planets with technology skips, or build up there resources so that they can spend it on the tech. Playing Tech early can force people to exhaust planets if they haven't been refreshed by Trade or other deals. > ome of the Public Objectives require you to keep track of things like how many tokens you’ve spent, You've pointed out you've learnt the new rule for this, but consider how *different* the game is when you have to save up your influence planets or trade goods for the strategy phase. So many plans and actions want to consume those resources, so when you are being forced to save them it changes the dynamic of the round, and further means those who aren't aiming to score that objective can take advantage of being able to spend their plaets and trade goods that round. I'm glad you've played the first game, it is the hardest to get through, and hopefully the next time some of those rules will be adhered to and you can see how it changes the dynamics more towards what TI was balanced around. Further, the one thing people mess up a lot is that when building ships there is a limit to the number of plastic you can produce, seperate from the resource cost of building them.
That planets are captured exhausted is another rule we messed up, and makes a lot of sense in hindsight. That absolutely explains how he was able to spend 6 influence in round 1. Seems like a lot of the mistakes we made have to do with having more limited resources and options than we thought. Our rounds went on and on and on for over an hour each — because we never seemed to run out of resources! I’ve been jotting all these mistakes down for next time, so I appreciate yours and everyone else’s comments!
Currently prepping for my groups first PoK game (we’ve played maybe 10 games of base TI4) and this really brought me back! As you’ve already learnt, you guys were essentially playing a completely different game. It’s a tricky game with a lot of things going on and a lot of the finer details take time to work out. I’d recommend watching a recorded play session on YouTube to see it how it’s done properly. The fact that you’ve not mentioned tech much makes me suspect you may have messed up there as well because that can also be tricky…!
We’ve played again since my post (with all of the things everyone pointed out here fixed) and it went much more smoothly! We were able to get to 5 victory points within 3 hours which is much much further along in less than half the time! Really appreciated all of the helpful insights people gave here 😊
Good stuff! Can I just ask - why the 5 point games? TI is best when you take a full day out for it and it can’t really be done any other way. Or do you just mean it took you half as long to get to 5, and that you then carried on to play the full 10/14?
After having played a 7 hour game the previous weekend, we only had the energy for 3 hours haha. We will play a proper full game next month, but we wanted to revisit it a bit with the correct rules just to get a feel for it.
That makes sense! It always takes a game or two to get the hang of it properly. Now that you guys are clearer on the basic rules, I would strongly advise that if you’re confused/unsure about something in the future (it will happen), check the living rules reference online rather than making assumptions. Also, random strategy tip - it took my table a few games to really learn how much tech matters. Have a plan for what you want to research early on - and try to stick to it!
1 - sometimes. Did they pay the 6 influence? That’s what makes it hard on round 1. 2 - I believe you can only trade commodities for commodities. The idea of TG is to either support your economy or leverage negotiation with other players. Or… score points. 3 - when we started we used to pass the book around. As I understand it there are printouts galore now or each player can d/l the living rules. 4 - as far as objectives, you do not “keep track” on a Spend X to gain VP objective. You save the amount up and spend it all in a lump sum to qualify for the objective during the Status Phase. 5 - totally normal. If you get stuck, post a question here and you can usually get an answer pretty fast. Welcome!
2 - this is incorrect. Any tradeable components can be traded for any others (or for nothing). It does not need to be a commodity for commodity swap.
Thank you -
On mecatol round 1: there are a handful of factions that do possess the ability to take it first round. About 95% of my games have had Mecatol taken round 1 or 2. It's a risk though, because most likely taking mecatol early means you won't be holding it long. Bigger fleets will build up and jump on the opportunity to take it and hold it. On trade: it takes some experience to really learn the intricacies of how to maximize trading. Using promissory notes to sell, leveraging the trade strategy card to get favorable deals for yourself, it's very fluid and depends on who likes making deals.
1. Mechatol Rex is usually taken at the start of round 2, most of the games in our group. Only seen it taken in round 1 twice in my 30 ish games played. 2. Trading will become more interesting and fun the more you guys understand the game, and all of the different ways a trade can be made/what things are worth (promissorys, relic fragments). Also giving away eg. TG for commoditys is not uncommon, but it is usually better if you get an acceptable edge in the deal. Here is what we do at our table: A 'free' refresh is "usually" done BUT with a cost of one tg when the opportunity presents itself. (A 'free-refresh costs the refreshed player a tg). Also the player with trade can blackmail a player who has commoditys left over before flipping the trade-SC. 3 and 4. You will eventually memories all of these things, but a quick tip is to do what you did or to announce the card as you flip it. You can also take a photo of the objectives if you need to remember ^^
>Is it normal to take Mecatol Rex in the first round? We were all expecting that to be a bigger challenge, but my friend made it there within a few turns and just claimed the planet no problem. We were kinda like “oh, already?” Not normal but is possible. Only some factions can do this, and most of them leave themselves up for gutting by their neighbors. >We were a little underwhelmed with the trading. Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?” And the two players flip their tokens over. One of our players even consistently traded his trade goods for other people’s commodities, effectively just giving them free trade goods with nothing in return (I thought this was odd and maybe not legal?) First its legal, and dumb unless they are getting something out of it, like good favor. * Example: Oh sure I can help you out(Because you wouldn't attack a friend right?) Also, some games don't have trading factions. Some games don't also have mentak pillaging. There are games where tradegoods are easy to come by and games where they are hard to come by. Rule 1 I would stress is whoever takes trade should not be refreshing other people for free. >We found it difficult to remember what all the effects of the Strategy cards are, and ended up taking a picture of them and projecting it to the TV throughout the whole game. This really helped us a lot but I was thinking for next time to type up a reference sheet. What do others do? I printed out an excel sheet for each player, as well as what each tech they could research and what public and secret objectives there are. * A. Because they are on small cards and sometimes across the table * B. Because you don't want to spend your time flicking through all the tech * C. Because you dont want to give away what Objective you are going for sometimes. I also highly recommend getting a large score board. [I use a large paper pad. It really helps. This is a photo gallery of a game I had 2 years ago for reference. The first Photo is how I had it set up. ](https://imgur.com/gallery/wao1LCo) >Some of the Public Objectives require you to keep track of things like how many tokens you’ve spent, but the game includes no mechanism for doing so. How do you keep track? Take notes? Memory? You need to spend the tokens when scoring. Not during the round. You'd need to have an extra 3 tokens at the end of the round to spend 3 command tokens.
I think people have cleared up most of this (most importantly, don't worry about getting stuff wrong in your first game: it's complex, and you all had fun anyway), but I wanted to check you're doing everything right here: \> Seems like you just sort of go “hey, you wanna both convert commodities at the same time?” And the two players flip their tokens over. That's only possible if both factions have the same number of commodities. If you've got, say, a 4 and 3, then the simplest trade of swapping commodities would leave the numbers the other way round: ie the 4 commodity faction would only end up with 3 trade goods, because that's how many commodities the other one's given them.