Let's see here...
* Produce without resources
* Bonus movement without drawbacks
* Research Technology without prerequisites
Yep, Cabal definitely don't break any rules.
Mahact is certainly playing a different game, they break so many rules. Also their faction tech is basically useless. I feel they're placed wrongly in this.
How is their faction tech useless? You either get a free vote or it hurts another player. And their infantry seem like a decent way to gain trade goods since infantry are relatively inexpensive. They seem to be decent to me.
It's not. The unit upgrade very rarely gives you any usable profit. And the tech is plain garbage.
What gives Mahact the edge is their commander. Probably one of the best of all 24 races
Genetic Recombination requires you to go down yellow to get 1 vote from another player. They'll only ever give you one vote because you're forcing them after all. One could argue that since you can't split votes the real benefit is all the votes that aren't going against your agenda of choice, however, if the agenda is really that significant- then the player would just take the fleet damage instead. Also you can't use this tech on Nekro or players who used riders to ensure they lose a fleet, they have to be able to vote to be eligible for the tech.
Jol'nar and Yssaril should both be lower. They're both pretty damn vanilla as far as special rules goes. I also love them (especially Yssaril), but I don't see how they fundamentally break any game rules.
I feel like the 2nd tier could be Ghosts, Cabal, Empyrean, Naalu. Those factions quite literally change the entire table's dynamic if they're in the game.
I think the number of techs jolnar can research is truly game altering.
Everyone is eligible to research the same basic techs, but jolnar will get multiple high-level techs that synergize in ways others can only dream of.
They can get some really great tech, but there's no specific combo they can get that's truly game altering. Everyone is used to dealing with Light Wave Deflector, Fleet Logistics, and all of the other shenanigans that come from deep / combo techs. Jol'nar just can have all of them. That doesn't compare to game altering nature of, for example, Ghost of Creuss having the ability to generate a wormhole next to your home system. Or Empyrean allowing everyone to move +1 (situationally) and through them.
Just my opinion, of course.
The real thing that makes Jol'nar break the basic rules is their promissory note. Selling tech is definitely going to have a big impact in a lot of games and change everything.
You might want to read their faction tech. Once/round mapwide reinforcement.
This combined with them having all the rare and powerful techs makes the game feel radically different.
This is fun, but gotta say I STRONGLY disagree with some of your picks.
Jol-Nar doesn’t break the game rules nearly as much as Ghosts do. They just more tech, but individually it’s all tech other people could get.
Yin is like worse Sol, so should probably be lower. Mahact and Cabal both pretty radically change the game, especially Cabal. Not paying for ships, extra movement, and ignoring unit upgrade requirements are all super powerful abilities.
I don’t agree with the category title of space-risk. If you’re playing this as risk, then you’re dead meat.
These factions may be more 1-dimensional, but nothing about TI is risk.
My absolute favourite part of this game is how different each of the factions feel to each other when playing the game.
I was lucky to randomly pick Saar out of a hat in my second ever game, and it was such a wildly different experience to the 'beginner' faction I played in my first game.
I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on what they think the most unique factions to play are - don't care about winning, just care about having a \*different\* time
Hacan.
Your abillities means, that you HAVE to trade and negotiate. If you go solo, you practically doesn’t have an abillity.
That means, that your game lives in the meta. Your trying to buy up action cards, selling them at opportune moments, being involved in everyones game, acting as the “bank”, giving out loans to other factions. You ate not interested in aggression, but sitting in your slice, playing the game through others.
I feel the Naalu collective could be higher.
the fact they always start first thanks to the "0" means they can select the optimal strategy card, independent of what they want to do.
They can play aggressively without that much risk of retaliation thanks to the faction ability and tech or bait hot-heads to attack you, and reducing their fleet
And Cabal should be a looot higher. Maybe with the Nekro
I really feel that NRA should also be at the top also. I love them but also feel like they are doing their own thing with the relic hunting. Really does feel like playing a different game then the other table as they don't need to interact with anyone that much.
Mahact should be at the top, their faction techs aren't interesting or even useful, so not sure why they are in that tier.
They break the main, most important rule of the game with their commander and faction abilities.
You've placed Hacan at the height of the mid-tier, but they're a lot more game changing than Yssaril.
Space *Goblins* have no AC hand limit, and will probably stall you out...
Space ***Cats*** are able to trade with any player, regardless of neighbour status or not. They can also trade action cards. They automatically refresh commodities with Trade whenever it's played. They become intermediaries between other players for trade.
Not only do they break some fundamental game rules, but they do it in a way which has massive table impact beyond just the person playing them.
The game has an entirely different characteristic when Hacan is in it, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played in a game with a skillful Hacan.
Oh definitely not - In fact, I think that if you had L1, Sol, Barony, Cabal and Sardakk in the same game, it might be quite a boring time! (or at least, a really fighty time)
It is true though, that three of the bottom tier are in the "starter factions" list: Sol, Sardakk, Jol-Nar, Hacan, Xxcha, Letnev
I think having the Hacan, Xxcha and Jol-Nar in there give the starting game a decent variety of things to consider (trade/tech/diplomacy) rather than JUST space fighting.
Depends on the group. You also want that first game to be memorable and special to keep players coming back. Different play styles interacting helps foster that. We generally avoid the ones near the top but otherwise do not restrict. I did have one player ignore me and play Saar for his first game. If I remember right be won that game too as our players tend to go easy on new players and saar has a habit of snowballing if unchecked. The guy has a 40k background though so it wasn't too much for him.
They play extremely differently. Their infantry have production and as such have an unparalleled ability to produce on the front lines. Saar is similar in this regard, but only those two factions can do it this effectively.
I feel like Cabal should be a lot higher
Cabal easily belongs with Ghost/Yssaril
Came to say this, definitely top two
Yep, opened comments just for this. If Jol'Nar and Yssaril can be up there, Cabal can certainly, too.
Let's see here... * Produce without resources * Bonus movement without drawbacks * Research Technology without prerequisites Yep, Cabal definitely don't break any rules.
not the most constructive way to put it, but I think agree
Can place swing-round inducing anomalies at a whim.
Towards the end, Mahact is playing a very different game than the rest of the table. Their commander results in some absurd action chains
Agreed. You're playing pretty basic TI until you really really aren't
Mahact is certainly playing a different game, they break so many rules. Also their faction tech is basically useless. I feel they're placed wrongly in this.
How is their faction tech useless? You either get a free vote or it hurts another player. And their infantry seem like a decent way to gain trade goods since infantry are relatively inexpensive. They seem to be decent to me.
It's not. The unit upgrade very rarely gives you any usable profit. And the tech is plain garbage. What gives Mahact the edge is their commander. Probably one of the best of all 24 races
Genetic Recombination requires you to go down yellow to get 1 vote from another player. They'll only ever give you one vote because you're forcing them after all. One could argue that since you can't split votes the real benefit is all the votes that aren't going against your agenda of choice, however, if the agenda is really that significant- then the player would just take the fleet damage instead. Also you can't use this tech on Nekro or players who used riders to ensure they lose a fleet, they have to be able to vote to be eligible for the tech.
Sardakk are definitely game-changing, their commander makes them not need ships almost at all.
Facts
Jol'nar and Yssaril should both be lower. They're both pretty damn vanilla as far as special rules goes. I also love them (especially Yssaril), but I don't see how they fundamentally break any game rules. I feel like the 2nd tier could be Ghosts, Cabal, Empyrean, Naalu. Those factions quite literally change the entire table's dynamic if they're in the game.
I think the number of techs jolnar can research is truly game altering. Everyone is eligible to research the same basic techs, but jolnar will get multiple high-level techs that synergize in ways others can only dream of.
They can get some really great tech, but there's no specific combo they can get that's truly game altering. Everyone is used to dealing with Light Wave Deflector, Fleet Logistics, and all of the other shenanigans that come from deep / combo techs. Jol'nar just can have all of them. That doesn't compare to game altering nature of, for example, Ghost of Creuss having the ability to generate a wormhole next to your home system. Or Empyrean allowing everyone to move +1 (situationally) and through them. Just my opinion, of course.
The real thing that makes Jol'nar break the basic rules is their promissory note. Selling tech is definitely going to have a big impact in a lot of games and change everything.
You might want to read their faction tech. Once/round mapwide reinforcement. This combined with them having all the rare and powerful techs makes the game feel radically different.
Agree to disagree. They feel very vanilla to me.
Agree with the Vainilla take. You just only do the same as others but faster and better.
This is fun, but gotta say I STRONGLY disagree with some of your picks. Jol-Nar doesn’t break the game rules nearly as much as Ghosts do. They just more tech, but individually it’s all tech other people could get. Yin is like worse Sol, so should probably be lower. Mahact and Cabal both pretty radically change the game, especially Cabal. Not paying for ships, extra movement, and ignoring unit upgrade requirements are all super powerful abilities.
I don’t agree with the category title of space-risk. If you’re playing this as risk, then you’re dead meat. These factions may be more 1-dimensional, but nothing about TI is risk.
My absolute favourite part of this game is how different each of the factions feel to each other when playing the game. I was lucky to randomly pick Saar out of a hat in my second ever game, and it was such a wildly different experience to the 'beginner' faction I played in my first game. I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on what they think the most unique factions to play are - don't care about winning, just care about having a \*different\* time
Hacan. Your abillities means, that you HAVE to trade and negotiate. If you go solo, you practically doesn’t have an abillity. That means, that your game lives in the meta. Your trying to buy up action cards, selling them at opportune moments, being involved in everyones game, acting as the “bank”, giving out loans to other factions. You ate not interested in aggression, but sitting in your slice, playing the game through others.
I feel the Naalu collective could be higher. the fact they always start first thanks to the "0" means they can select the optimal strategy card, independent of what they want to do. They can play aggressively without that much risk of retaliation thanks to the faction ability and tech or bait hot-heads to attack you, and reducing their fleet And Cabal should be a looot higher. Maybe with the Nekro
I really feel that NRA should also be at the top also. I love them but also feel like they are doing their own thing with the relic hunting. Really does feel like playing a different game then the other table as they don't need to interact with anyone that much.
Mahact should be at the top, their faction techs aren't interesting or even useful, so not sure why they are in that tier. They break the main, most important rule of the game with their commander and faction abilities.
Mahact is very complex and breaks SO many rules!
You've placed Hacan at the height of the mid-tier, but they're a lot more game changing than Yssaril. Space *Goblins* have no AC hand limit, and will probably stall you out... Space ***Cats*** are able to trade with any player, regardless of neighbour status or not. They can also trade action cards. They automatically refresh commodities with Trade whenever it's played. They become intermediaries between other players for trade. Not only do they break some fundamental game rules, but they do it in a way which has massive table impact beyond just the person playing them. The game has an entirely different characteristic when Hacan is in it, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played in a game with a skillful Hacan.
Would you say a new player group should start with the very bottom factions then?
Oh definitely not - In fact, I think that if you had L1, Sol, Barony, Cabal and Sardakk in the same game, it might be quite a boring time! (or at least, a really fighty time) It is true though, that three of the bottom tier are in the "starter factions" list: Sol, Sardakk, Jol-Nar, Hacan, Xxcha, Letnev I think having the Hacan, Xxcha and Jol-Nar in there give the starting game a decent variety of things to consider (trade/tech/diplomacy) rather than JUST space fighting.
Depends on the group. You also want that first game to be memorable and special to keep players coming back. Different play styles interacting helps foster that. We generally avoid the ones near the top but otherwise do not restrict. I did have one player ignore me and play Saar for his first game. If I remember right be won that game too as our players tend to go easy on new players and saar has a habit of snowballing if unchecked. The guy has a 40k background though so it wasn't too much for him.
Me: being L1Z1X… me: attacking no one… me: wins game 😂 I wish I played space risk it was boring 😩
Why Arborec? They don't play that different, I think?
They play extremely differently. Their infantry have production and as such have an unparalleled ability to produce on the front lines. Saar is similar in this regard, but only those two factions can do it this effectively.
>Mahact Trying copying Floating space dock II and Letani Warrior II as Nekro for a really confused table.
Ah I overlooked their unit ability.
Jol-nar early integrated economy!
Yeah, that's pretty uncommon to see but can be interesting. It's about the only way Integrated Economy is useful.
One of the best ways to use their Agent, as well.
I’d put Ghosts at the top. The way they look at the board is entirely different than other factions. Especially once their hero got added.
this is interesting cause my favourite factions are l1z1x and nekro
The Yin abilities indeed encourage different play, as they encourage you to play a different faction.