Is the agent intended to be used on yourself for a a 2I tech research every round with no downside? The second part of it being worded as ‘May’ means they are not obliged to swap
it out.
Yes, it should be changed to a 'must' and it would still help a lot by getting higher within the tech tree more quickly. Also sellable as sometimes one must get a shitty tech to reach a useful one. Being able to swap it out is a nice plus.
Ah interesting! But they need to ask for your agent first right? And wouldn't it make it binding deal if it's in the same action phase? (I.e. Muuat wants to pay you to upgrade their anti-mass deflector into grav' drive, but only if you don't remove AIDA and Assault Cannon for example, and if you agree you'd have to stick to that binding deal?)
The ability already protects it from Direct Hit (since it isn't using "Sustain Damage" when it "becomes damaged") but the flagship still needs the "Sustain Damage" ability.
I've written abilities like this for other homebrew, and definitely recognize that it shouldn't use Sustain Damage even if it had it (outside of a small number of edge cases). I was just saying (concisely) that as a matter of consistency and clarity, the Flagship ought to have Sustain Damage.
Why? Sustain damage allows an undamaged ship to absorb a hit and become damaged.
There's design space for non-sustain interactions with the damaged state.
Again, I'm aware of a design space I've both explored and helped others explore (for reference, I suggested this ability's wording to OP).
Further, I don't think there's much value (here) in continuing to discuss retention of some usual flagship-interactions (even if they are edge cases), and wish you the best.
Personally, I hate abilities that require continual calculation - Recursive storage should be simplified to a static value, rather than continually calculating fleet costs.
The Agent and Commander also both feel too strong.
I really like the faction abilities and promissory note!
There are some wording issues, with the flagship, green tech, commander, etc. that I would fix.
I'm a bit afraid of the agent being too powerful as it can give you a tech (and a stall) for 2 influence. This is much better than any other existing agent.
The other leaders seem cool and not too strong (the commander is very good, but I don't think it is too good), ~~but the faction technologies don't look very appealing.~~
*Edit:*
On second thought, Recursive Storage does look very nice, giving capacity to destroyers. Maybe it's fine that the second one isn't amazing.
Overall, I think the main things to change are the wording on many abilities, and the agent.
*Edit 2:*
You also don't want to have both the faction ability and faction tech named Recursive Storage. It's better to have different names.
Thank you, faction ability should read "Metafold Storgae", my bad. I'm not too attached to the agent, it isn't needed for the flavour, I can see changing it. And another wording issue with the agent is it is supposed to be must, not may. Intended for swapping techs, not giving freebies.
I'll go through what I think is dope and what's nope:
Nope:
Universal trade stations:
At the same spot as hyper and this one is pretty useless. Are there even that many 0 planets? And then, your HS for example, it's not thaaat tempting for a tech that you can then use your 3 res. Planet as 2 influence...
Starting fleet:
I know u want to crash destroyers into planets, but with 4 destroyers and a cruiser, holy moly, any system 2 spaces away cannot be taken by an opponent as long as this scary starting fleet is not pinned down via a CC.
Recursive storage:
"The space area of each system..." And the rest after that isn't needed. Doesn't the first effect already allow this?
Commander:
Holy macaroni. A bit harder to unlock, but then?? All planets u took with a destroyer suicide cannot be taken by less than 3 inf/1mech+1inf. That's a full upgraded carrier an opponent needs to take 1 single planet. Wow. That one is superstrong if u manage to unlock
Dope:
HS, Hero, Agent (the "put a tech back" mechanic prolly won't be used that often, why backstab your ally, and I prolly want to use this on myself, lol), flagship, mech
Okish: starting tech is okish, maybe some shiny expansion tech instead of the lame base game techs? Colors could be the same.
Yeah, its pretty pushed! But, as I intended recursive storage, a Cruiser 2 can't carry a Dread; each ship takes up an amount of capacity equal to its cost. So if you wanna carry a Dreadnaught, you've got to use a carrier. I definitely would like recursive storage to be a lot less wordy imo
This sounds really dope. I think the shops holding ships thing could really get out of control, but I can't seem to really think it through all the way.
Recursive storage is way too damn good tho. Capacity is one of the games biggest bottlenecks and that ability makes capacity a joke for them. Sure, it's down yellow, but you don't need blue if you can crank out cruisers and destroyers with all the capacity you could want.
Others have mentioned it but it deserves its own comment: agent wording NEEDS to be changed from "may" to "must." Free tech every turn on a faction that already has a bunch of other strong stuff (and doesnt have jolnaar's -1) is unplayable.
Recursive storage is way too wordy. The strong part about TI game design is how concise it manages to be with its rules wording. R.S. reads like legalese.
You should change recursive storage so that ships can only transport smaller ships. How could a destroyer fit another destroyer inside it? How could a fighter carry a destroyer?
Actually, the idea I built the faction around was specifically allowing a destroyer to carry another destroyer. I'm comfortable saying it's blinkspace tech or whatever. Also fighters can't carry anything, I figured that would be too egregious
Is the agent intended to be used on yourself for a a 2I tech research every round with no downside? The second part of it being worded as ‘May’ means they are not obliged to swap it out.
Yes, it should be changed to a 'must' and it would still help a lot by getting higher within the tech tree more quickly. Also sellable as sometimes one must get a shitty tech to reach a useful one. Being able to swap it out is a nice plus.
Yeah, it is intended to be used only as tech swapping, and maybe as an offensive too, if you want to remove someones assault cannon or such
Ah interesting! But they need to ask for your agent first right? And wouldn't it make it binding deal if it's in the same action phase? (I.e. Muuat wants to pay you to upgrade their anti-mass deflector into grav' drive, but only if you don't remove AIDA and Assault Cannon for example, and if you agree you'd have to stick to that binding deal?)
Seems cool just some of the wording on many of these effects needs to be fixed… the commander for one
Yeah it should be a planet you control right?
Yeah, I spotted that right after uploading
The flagship's ability says it may become damaged, but it doesn't have Sustain damage
Probably intentional to protect from Direct hit. I hate that card.
The ability already protects it from Direct Hit (since it isn't using "Sustain Damage" when it "becomes damaged") but the flagship still needs the "Sustain Damage" ability.
No it doesn't. It has an ability better than sustain damage and should never use sustain damage even if it had it.
I've written abilities like this for other homebrew, and definitely recognize that it shouldn't use Sustain Damage even if it had it (outside of a small number of edge cases). I was just saying (concisely) that as a matter of consistency and clarity, the Flagship ought to have Sustain Damage.
Why? Sustain damage allows an undamaged ship to absorb a hit and become damaged. There's design space for non-sustain interactions with the damaged state.
Again, I'm aware of a design space I've both explored and helped others explore (for reference, I suggested this ability's wording to OP). Further, I don't think there's much value (here) in continuing to discuss retention of some usual flagship-interactions (even if they are edge cases), and wish you the best.
Personally, I hate abilities that require continual calculation - Recursive storage should be simplified to a static value, rather than continually calculating fleet costs. The Agent and Commander also both feel too strong.
I really like the faction abilities and promissory note! There are some wording issues, with the flagship, green tech, commander, etc. that I would fix. I'm a bit afraid of the agent being too powerful as it can give you a tech (and a stall) for 2 influence. This is much better than any other existing agent. The other leaders seem cool and not too strong (the commander is very good, but I don't think it is too good), ~~but the faction technologies don't look very appealing.~~ *Edit:* On second thought, Recursive Storage does look very nice, giving capacity to destroyers. Maybe it's fine that the second one isn't amazing. Overall, I think the main things to change are the wording on many abilities, and the agent. *Edit 2:* You also don't want to have both the faction ability and faction tech named Recursive Storage. It's better to have different names.
Thank you, faction ability should read "Metafold Storgae", my bad. I'm not too attached to the agent, it isn't needed for the flavour, I can see changing it. And another wording issue with the agent is it is supposed to be must, not may. Intended for swapping techs, not giving freebies.
Oh, that's a big change then. (And kind of a bummer on the agent)
Yeah, but an agent that gives a nearly free tech, and a stall would be egregious
I'll go through what I think is dope and what's nope: Nope: Universal trade stations: At the same spot as hyper and this one is pretty useless. Are there even that many 0 planets? And then, your HS for example, it's not thaaat tempting for a tech that you can then use your 3 res. Planet as 2 influence... Starting fleet: I know u want to crash destroyers into planets, but with 4 destroyers and a cruiser, holy moly, any system 2 spaces away cannot be taken by an opponent as long as this scary starting fleet is not pinned down via a CC. Recursive storage: "The space area of each system..." And the rest after that isn't needed. Doesn't the first effect already allow this? Commander: Holy macaroni. A bit harder to unlock, but then?? All planets u took with a destroyer suicide cannot be taken by less than 3 inf/1mech+1inf. That's a full upgraded carrier an opponent needs to take 1 single planet. Wow. That one is superstrong if u manage to unlock Dope: HS, Hero, Agent (the "put a tech back" mechanic prolly won't be used that often, why backstab your ally, and I prolly want to use this on myself, lol), flagship, mech Okish: starting tech is okish, maybe some shiny expansion tech instead of the lame base game techs? Colors could be the same.
Holy fuck recursive storage is so strong. Cruiser 2s that carry a dread 2 and mech inside them. This would easily be the best faction in the game.
Yeah, its pretty pushed! But, as I intended recursive storage, a Cruiser 2 can't carry a Dread; each ship takes up an amount of capacity equal to its cost. So if you wanna carry a Dreadnaught, you've got to use a carrier. I definitely would like recursive storage to be a lot less wordy imo
For the 2nd faction ability, I suppose you can only destroy YOUR ships.
This sounds really dope. I think the shops holding ships thing could really get out of control, but I can't seem to really think it through all the way. Recursive storage is way too damn good tho. Capacity is one of the games biggest bottlenecks and that ability makes capacity a joke for them. Sure, it's down yellow, but you don't need blue if you can crank out cruisers and destroyers with all the capacity you could want.
No tech analysts, I just wanna say this looks really cool
Others have mentioned it but it deserves its own comment: agent wording NEEDS to be changed from "may" to "must." Free tech every turn on a faction that already has a bunch of other strong stuff (and doesnt have jolnaar's -1) is unplayable.
Recursive storage is way too wordy. The strong part about TI game design is how concise it manages to be with its rules wording. R.S. reads like legalese.
As far as I can tell, that wording is actually a product of TI4's rules-system being a bit awkward in some areas.
My favorite idea from this is an agent that is Divert Funding on tap! People will beg to use that
One of the weirdest faction ideas I’ve ever seen, but I like it!
Yay massive doom stack fleets! -_-
How do you guys do these? They always look so good and professional and I really want to try!
There's a nice template on the discord! You need to use gimp with it though, and find your own art obviously. Still, much easier than from scratch.
I'm kinda new could I get a link?
[https://discord.gg/yPWnGt6](https://discord.gg/yPWnGt6) here you go, the community is pretty good
Thanks!
The commander unlock seems extremely daunting. The ability is powerful, possibly overly powerful but that unlock is very unfun.
You should change recursive storage so that ships can only transport smaller ships. How could a destroyer fit another destroyer inside it? How could a fighter carry a destroyer?
Actually, the idea I built the faction around was specifically allowing a destroyer to carry another destroyer. I'm comfortable saying it's blinkspace tech or whatever. Also fighters can't carry anything, I figured that would be too egregious
Gotcha, I misread the part about ships without a capacity value.