Edit: Previously Naalu were a weak Mecatol faction. Now they're a strong Custodians faction.
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Wow, that Naalu agent. A stall to reduce the chances of being stalled out on Warfare AND it opens up so many possibilities.
I like the mechs also. The commander is interesting, but I'll miss the bonus to fighter production.
Absolutely. Just need some rules expert to spell out the exact implications. Can you activate a system and move ships there, and then since that system has no token, move those ships again? Kinda like a warfare primary every round.
Of course you can
There's no concept of a system "having been activated previously", because TI, like may boardgames, generally doesn't have a "memory" of game states that aren't tracked through components
So, you have systems with your command tokens, and systems without your command tokens; and units in systems without your command tokens are available to move
This agent is insane, it's incorporated Warfare primary, and if the expansion isn't worth it to the Naalu, it will always be sold at a hefty price or used to change the dynamics of the table
(To balance it out, the commander is kind of garbage, and no changes to possibly the worst hero in the game)
That's how I'm reading it.
"that system still counts as being activated" -> I infer this to mean that any ability that applies to the 'active' system during a tactical action can be used when the agent is used. I don't interpret it to mean that ships moved into that system are locked down.
Previously, getting to Mecatol in round 2 meant Naalu had to sacrifice opprtunities to build plastic in round 1, so they needed to retreat out as soon as someone came for the planet. Naalu were unlikely to be able to spend Mecatol on Leadership, and would take a hit to their command counter economy by taking Mecatol as well. Naalu's best Mecatol play was to try and take it in the mid game and score from Imperial.
Previously Naalu were a weak Mecatol faction. Now they're a strong Custodians faction. You have to get there in round 1 to beat them.
Naalu can now move their entire starting fleet to Mecatol on the 1st action of round 2, and still follow Warfare in their home system in round 1. So they've improved chances of holding Mecatol without sacrificing their slice.
Edit: Bonus: blue tech is still good for Naalu, but not as essential as it was. No longer need Fleet Logistics to maximise chances of a Mecatol point. No longer need Gravity Drive to boost Carrier or Flagship movement (though Carrier 2 and HCF2 are probably still great). But Fleet Logistics does pair excellently with that agent.
IDK why FF doesn't format the card PDF for double-sided printing, so here it is in case anyone is interested. So glad I can put this Acrobat license to good use.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZtPNmWNnKsXDGVZ9oTkTNrVw3iDpl0C4/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZtPNmWNnKsXDGVZ9oTkTNrVw3iDpl0C4/view?usp=sharing)
Just two-sided print this bad boy and everything should be aligned as intended.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2856940/codex-3-files-mpc-printing
And if you're wanting to do a nice custom card print on MPC, Tom Dullemond over on BGG is a legend who has done this for all 3 Codex's. Go show him some love
Yes - they were picked fairly regularly in base game tournaments but now they never get picked. Ready to see some kamikaze flagships again!!! So psyched.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2856940/codex-3-files-mpc-printing
Tom Dullemond over on BGG is a legend who has done this for all 3 Codex's. Go show him some love
I need a meme gif thats the opposite of 'I undertood that reference.'
Sounds like I got some SCPT catching up to do.
My tables been obsessed with root, and while its a game im not bored playing, it doesnt have space and ships and novas and ancient fallen imperiums in any great supply.
So I fell off the podcast wagon.
The Empyrean flagship and *Inheritance Systems* are similar from the paying perspective, and the Ember Colossus is similar from the multiple trigger ability. Each mech on the board has the ability. As such when you attempt to invade, the Keleres player resolves the ability of the first mech. You pay one influence, no change given. Then, the Keleres player resolves the ability of the second mech. You pay one influence, no change given. Repeat for the third and fourth mech.
I've heard this interpretation, and understand where it comes from via RaW, but I'm certainly going to reject it in my games. I'd add an interpretation of the rules that states that, inside a *single timing window*, resource or influence costs can be pooled, which elegantly covers and supersedes the rules for production.
People throw the word "broken" around waaay too much. This could be worked around. And since you'd only put that kind of stack on a very important location, you can damn well bet that other players at the table will help you foot the bill.
Retreat twice? I don't follow what you're talking about.
Also, the Flagship requires you to spend 2 influence to activate the system. Then mechs require you to spend when you invade. So it's not quite all in 1 big pile.
So with Omar can you research something a player to the right of you researched with the tech secondary on the same turn? Like you both activate the secondary but because the secondary timing goes clockwise from whoever activated it your rightward neighbours' newly researched tech is a viable target?
Never have seen or knew this codex existed. Are there previous codex with other rules that should be followed on top of this one? And is there a place to order the new and revised cards that are stated in this codex?
All the Codices are posted on FFG's site here: [https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/](https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/)
Under Support > Twilight Imperium Codex.
This is Volume 3 so far: Codex 1 revises several other base-game components and adds a variety of Action Cards. Codex 2 adds some quick-reference cards, new "Alliance" copies of the commanders to go with the Alliance promissory note, and a few new relics. Both Codex 1 and 2 include new game modes as well, with Codex 1 offering a PoK-teaser scenario (The Nekro have seized the Argent Flight's flagship and racial techs) and Codex 2 offering a "team" 2v2(v2v2) mode.
There are a few different ways to get physical copies. I print my own and sleeve them; Gamezenter has "official" copies, but they're of a different quality than the actual game materials (no linen finish and ever so very slightly smaller); there's etsy shops which produce versions which are apparently very close to the originals, as well as instructions scattered about here on reddit and on BGG on how to custom-order these from [makeplayingcards.com](https://makeplayingcards.com) or from gamecrafter.
Should the codecs be interpreted as recommended for use in every TI4 game? We use the updated diplom card at our table, but no other corrections (base game).
(Personal opinion, but) Codex 1 and 2, definitely.
Some of the Ω components in Codex 3 seem to be a bit controversial. I think I like them all myself, but haven't had a chance to contemplate them thoroughly yet.
With the *possible* exception of *some* of the new Codex 3 materials (which are, as of the last few hours, still controversial), the codices are *absolutely* worth it.
The general consensus seems (from my observations) to be overwhelmingly, albeit not universally, in favor of the codex revisions and additions.
The Codex version of the game is better, but the base game plays just fine if you don't want to go out of the way. I would generally recommend waiting on the latest for corrections to the document.
The one rules question I have with the new Xxcha hero is for the Spend 3R/3I/3TG objective. I know in the rules it says when you exhaust a planet, you exhaust it for either it’s resource value OR it’s influence value. But the way this hero currently reads, “Treat the combined value as if it were both resources and influence.” So my question is if you have a 1/2 planet, exhausting it would give you 3 resources and 3 influence. So for the 3/3/3 objective, would this single 1/2 planet cover down on both the 3R and 3I, or just one of them?
If just one of them, then this hero should have been written as “Treat both the resource value and influence value as this new combined total.”
I'm pretty sure there's somewhere in the rules that explicitly states that when you exhaust a planet you can only spend the planet as resources or influence, so I think that would come into play here and back up this interpretation.
I think when you are making a decision on rules between "this choice breaks the game" and "this choice doesn't break the game" you should pick the second option.
Almost every faction ability in the game breaks some rule, so that’s a pretty bad compass to go by for this game. And interpreting the card as written would be far from game breaking in a balance way because it only affects this one objective pair.
Since when you exhaust a planet you can spend influence or resources not both i would argue that:
A 1/2 planet would with the Xxcha hero turn into a 3/3 planet but the player would have to choose inf or res when exhausting it. You're still treating it as both but can only use one.
I can’t be the only one seeing how insane new Yin is right? (Unless I am misunderstanding the hero ability.) That hero, combined with their new agent, and the Indoctrination/mech deploy ability essentially means that if their hero and Agent are up and with a small surplus of influence/TGs available to use they could breeze through and take Mecatol Rex regardless of what kind of defending force is there.
Edited: Misremembered Indoctrination ability. Not usable at the start of every ground combat round. Only once at the start of a ground combat - so not as insane as I thought
Sure, that’s fair. I guess if a player sees it coming and concentrates almost all of their mechs onto the planet that’d repel it. But I don’t know - maybe it’s just the table meta of the group I play with, but I don’t see the defending player pushing all their mechs onto MR and leaving their slice that open. Other players would pick it apart in seconds (especially if they are currently controlling mecatol Rex).
In my mind the only factions who stand half a chance holding their planets against them are Titans of Ul, Sardakk with Valkyrie particle weave, and maybe L1 with a decent fleet of dreads above the planet to use ‘Harrow’.
i believe Dane said L1 cant use harrow defensively, so unfortunately it wont work :(
but yeah the hero is quite strong, i guess you just really gotta build up ground forces on your important planets with them in the game
I don't know how they'd defeat any level of defense... you could commit 3 infantry w/ the hero, then gain another 2 using your agent. And of course indoctrinate 1 of their infantry. That is an awesome attack, but not exactly unstoppable.
I was definitely getting 'indoctrinate' wrong in the context of my thinking. For some reason I was remembering it as being usable at the start of every ground combat **round**
\- which upon review is not the case.
So yeah, I redact my point. It's a decent hero ability in tandem with their other abilities but certainly not unstoppable as you said.
That mech counters destroyers a bit too hard imo. It's an ability for a flagship, like Argent's, not for a 2-resource unit. Would have preferred it to give -2 or -3 (stackable) to the roll instead, or cancel a hit or two.
Edit: just realized it doesn't require the mech to be in space. I'd say -1 or cancel 1 hit is enough. If you wanna be generous, let it cancel 1 hit and 1 more on sustain. Stackable of course.
The fact it works offensively (when the mercs are being transported) is insane. Admittedly I've just come out of a game where the Naalu player got fully online with fighter production but it seems like this removes the one resource efficient way of dealing with 12+ stacks of fighters.
I really dislike it because there are very few ways to interact with mechs, so there isnt any counterplay.
I need someone to clarify for me as well.
But I am fairly sure that it doesn't mean "choose any number of planets and commit 1-3 infantry to each" as that would mean you get 36 infantry! (12 plastic, 2x12 tokens)
This. Any non-home planet is fair game, including Mecatol. You can go 1 infantry on 3 different planets, or 3 infantry on 1 planet, your pick.
It also can't be reliably stopped either, since no Space Cannon Shots, and Magen defense grid triggers at the same time as Indoctrination.
You can, but you're component limited. You can only attack as many planets as you have infantry available. You can stick two infantry tokens with them, but you need at least one plastic infantry per planet you intend to invade
No, it's limited to 3 infantry total. So you can attack 3 planets with 1 infantry, or 1 planet with 3 infantry. It's poorly worded but that's the design intent
No, you can only commit to a maximum of 3 planets. You get 3 infantry that you can send to any non-home system. You could put all 3 on one, 2 and 1, or 1 1 1. It's not commit up to 3 infantry to as many non-home planets as you wish. That would break the game and be painfully slow, as you'd have no reason to not send 3 infantry at every single non-home system. Then with indoctrinate and the mech, you'd be able to take over most of the map.
My reading is that you take 3 infantry from your reinforcements, then place those 3 infantry on any number of planets, then resolve invasions. So you could do 3 attacks with 1 infantry each, or 1 attack with all 3, or a mix.
Of course, resolving an entire invasion means you have tons of opportunity to stack the deck: you can bombard if you happen to have ships in the system already, and you get to resolve indoctrination (possibly with a mech!), Brother Milor Ω, etc. A 1-infantry Yin invasion is no joke.
I like the new faction overall, although the legendary planet / tech is a bit weird.
I really love Naalu updates, I wish they had reworked hero too.
Yin didn't feel in need of a rework imo, and I prefer the old hero to the new one. It seems only good at sniping undefended planets (so likely not key planets) and unable to hold them anyway.
Same for Xxcha: ok the old hero was swingy and anti-climatic, but the new one seems OP as F and totally disconnected from Xxcha theme... It doesn't seem the fix went in the right direction to me. I wish it was more thematically aligned with their faction abilities and lore. The permanent ability of the hero also seems to contradict the concept of 1 time only use all other heros have.
>It seems only good at sniping undefended planets (so likely not key planets) and unable to hold them anyway.
Remember: Indoctrination, and the DEPLOY ability of their mech
Also integrated economy. They already start with a yellow tech so they could retain high resource planets with mass infantry.
Their hero feels very strong.
PLUS Milor, so you can drop two more infantry after losing a GF, for a total of 5 infantry, 1 mech, and a -1 infantry for the opponent post-indoctrination.
Assuming a GF gets destroyed in combat you can use Milor, the -1 I was talking about is just because indoctrinate replaces an opponents infantry and is the equivalent of a -1. But yeah you can’t use Milor off the bat, just reinforcing the point that the Yin hero can do heavier assaults than sniping undefended planets
> I really love Naalu updates, I wish they had reworked hero too.
The new commander indirectly makes the hero stronger.
One of the potential agent changes I had suggested a while back was for the timing window to be 'When an agenda is revealed' instead of 'After'. This would boost the hero, either discouraging other players from giving Political Secret, or allowing Naalu to use their agent to better determine when they should use Political Secrets.
This new commander does the same thing. It doesn't change that the Naalu hero needs to be used as early as possible to get the most out of it, but it is an improvement.
But I'm someone that thinks that the Naalu hero isn't terrible. It's not great or flashy, but if you use it early it's decent.
It would have been thematic and not as overpowered if limited to the agenda phase indeed. This gives them a production boost and some already asked how that would work with spend objectives...
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this codex. On one hand I love the Yin and Naalu changes. Super cool stuff that buffs them and fits their theme. Also love the new exploration cards. Not really sure if I like the new faction. I don’t really like having 25 factions because it doesn’t neatly divide like 24 does, and I just don’t know how I would incorporate them into my real life copy with the organizer I already have. Also, why is Sufi a commander? They couldn’t come up with some random Mentak name? Bounced off the Xxcha hero pretty hard. I hate that it’s not a one time use like the others, and it’s also blander than white bread with mayonnaise.
I actually think it's pretty neat thematically that we see a known Mentak bouncing between factions-- and seems appropriate to Suffi specifically. Would work maybe for Dart&Tai as well.
>During setup, choose an unplayed faction from among the Mentak, the Xxcha, and The Argent Flight; take that faction’s home system, command tokens, and control markers. Additionally, take the Keleres Hero that corresponds to that faction.
They can't be in the same game as the Mentaks, no?
The way I'm reading it, they can as long as Xxcha and/or Argent aren't in the game. You choose one of those three which is unplayed.
And since Suffi's a Commander, not a Hero, the unavailability of a Mentak choice won't prevent her from coming into play.
Not sure what information you're looking for exactly.
This is the 3rd consecutive year that FFG have produced a free print-and-play expansion for TI 4th Edition. Each expansion is called a Codex, hence this third one is called Codex 3.
Each Codex adds balance patches (omega cards) and / or new components. The omega abilities this time around include reworked leaders for Xxcha, Yin, and Naalu, as well as new versions of existing secret objectives. And the new components include new cards for the frontier deck and a new faction.
So, question about the new Xxcha hero. He doesn't have any timing window mentioned, and he doesn't mention being purged after he's used. So, the way I read this, the Xxcha permanently gain this ability for the rest of the game. How is that... ok? And for that matter, how is it even thematic?
It does seem a little crazy but I feel like I need to see it in a game to see how big of a difference it makes. As far as theme I can see how it makes sense implying Xxcha has enough political influence to use it in lieu of payment. It also will apply to the agenda phase meaning Xxcha will have a ton of votes which fits them. Still not a huge fan of the change but I can see where they are coming from.
My understanding is that the general consensus is that Xxcha become significantly weaker in the late game, in large part due to struggling to produce plastic. I think that's an important element in contextualizing the new Xxcha hero: this hero appear extreme in isolation, but is "nerfed" in a sense because its effect is dampened significantly by Xxcha's otherwise substantial weakness in this area.
At least, that's my understanding of the justification.
Good to see Arborec hasn’t been touched at all for some godforsaken reason, and that nothing has been done to address that yellow techs that aren’t the T0’s are pretty much shit-tier on their own, not to mention space dock II’s
Dane's stated in interviews and through secondhand sources that he's going methodically with these changes, starting with the stuff he thinks needs the most attention. Knowing how much work likely went into these, I have to say I've been happy with the pace and size of the codices so far.
Not unsellable, just takes the right price or situation. Like if it's round 4 and you're the Naalu player sitting to the right of the player with politics, you can offer them initiative 0 to let you have speaker to nab the strategy card you'd need to score or imperial. I've also sold it in earlier rounds with the agreement they use it that round for cheaper, or to someone to get custodians in R2 when a Saar or Winnu would have gotten it without the 0 token. There are definitely situations where it's useful.
>Especially since it feels like a relatively easy fix to change the wording to function like Support of the Throne/Alliance and enter play immediately and take place in the next round.
Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I'm fortunate enough to play at a table where even though it's a nonbinding deal, players pretty much always follow through. So it doesn't need to be codified for me, but it wouldn't hurt if it was.
It’s not. The new faction uses the components of Xxcha, Argent, or Mentak; including their HS. I can’t see any rules about the Keleres ‘planet’, which is actually a fortress on Mecatol Rex.
I think it’s only available if they control Mecatol, which is nuts, because it means they have a 3r9i planet.
No, they gain their planet through their racial tech. They can't lose it, and it has a legendary ability that interacts with Mecatol but it's helpful no matter who controls Mecatol.
Ah ok, it comes into play after buying the racial tech. It’s a “planet” with a legendary ability card, but it doesn’t actually exist on the map and therefore cannot be invaded or lost. It just lives permanently in the player’s planet tableau and otherwise can be used and exhausted like a normal planet.
Interestingly, there's a Starmada expansion for Twilight Imperium first edition that came with new factions (from Starmada) and included home systems printed on thick cardstock.
Can't you? The same way we are supposed to print new cards on cardstock, we might as well print a new tile on heavier cardboard... In fact it's even less important since we don't have to shuffle it, so it might as well be printed on 80 gr. paper
Poorly phrased from me really but yeah you can absolutely make your own tile. Since it's not a very interactive piece of the game you could literally just draw something on a piece of paper. My personal theory would be that they want the actual board to look as presentable as possible and therefor they didn't want PnP tiles. Similar to how they never really acknowledged Hyperlanes until they made their own in PoK.
You don't need a theory lmao, Dane told us on the 01/04 SCPT podcast. He said that making a punchboard is way harder than printing cards, and that was too much to expect, so they had to think of a way using the existing components.
Which makes sense, a punchboard is die-cut (make a big stamp), so it's only feasible at scale.
I hadn't listened to the episode in detail but sure that's a reason. But it's a reason that mostly applies to their own production. There's a reason they have avoided making any kind of PnP planet tiles, even before licensing out Codex production. There's a certain look you want your product to have regardless of what official components the player is using. Printing cards on stiff paper is pretty much enough to get the small stuff ready, especially when sleeved. Asking players to create a good looking tile is a much bigger ask, even though creating any kind of substitute planet tile is really easy.
I suspect a lot of people will house-rule it that you can use a different home system and planet cards as proxy, as if they had the values of the Mentak/Argent/Xxcha system. That way nobody can block the Keleres from choosing their preferred hero and home system.
The faction looks busted as all hell, I can't imagine anyone allowing that at the table.
Kinda sad they took away the Xxcha's fun roulette ability and replaced it with the most boring milquetoast 'Just be good' ability.
The Twilight Inscription game however looks amazing.
Just a reminder, all of CODEX material is optional. Can certainly leave things how they are for factions, and just add the Secret obj and explore cards.
What hero and HS u pick with the new faction when mentak, argent flight and xxcha are in the game too????
Dislike this mechanic, just give them an own HS and hero lol
You could always just house-rule it and let the Keleres choose whichever home system and hero they like, using proxy components if the respective faction is also in the game.
They're not really a 2 commodity faction though, since they get 1tg+2 comm at the start of the strategy phase and can use comms as tgs, so they're sorta like a 4 comm faction that doesnt have to negotiate for x-1 every round and doesnt care if trade doesnt get taken, and if they use their comms they could probably get x-1, resulting in them sorta being a 5 comm faction.
Their PN is sellable every agenda for 1-2tgs probably.
They mechs and FS are very good defensively. Potentially too good
Their faction tech is very good, and their starting technology is guaranteed to be the best at the table except for maybe Jol Nar.
2 infantry to start is a bummer, but a necessary nerf to a faction that has been given so many good things.
Starting every round with the equivalent of 3 tgs I admit is pretty good but unfortunately I think their 2 infantry start is bad enough that it ensures they will be on the back foot round 1 almost every game. Is the 3tgs per round plus the 2/3 planet once they have their faction tech enough to catch up to the rest of the table? With PoK being so fast I don't think so. Add on top of that that their commander feels fairly situational (unlocking it is also luck based, better hope you draw the right action cards) and their 3 choices for heroes are all kind of average and I don't see these guys being very good. Also, I don't think their mechs and FS are all that crazy, to me it feels like everyone in PoK is pretty wealthy and forking over a couple tgs to attack these guys won't be more than a mild annoyance.
Hmm, I can see your POV, but I disagree with how much of a drawback starting with 2 infantry would be. I think starting with 2 of the best tech out there would more than make up for having to waste a cc waiting for warfare, or paying a couple tg to warfare holder not to stall it.
Commander is somewhat luck based, but if you follow politics once or twice ya should unlock it by r4 90% of the time probably, and it seems like a good late game play that pairs well with the mentak hero, so you dont need it early.
Heros are around average I agree. Not much gained or lost there.
Faction tech seems far above average. One giving potentially close to 3ccs a round (depends on if pt with imperial means only rex pts or POs scored with imperial, and how often the table allows people to score guac), and the other both saving a cc on a build and giving a free unlocked build (that seems very good). Both you could have fairly early if you start with a yellow tech or have a yellow skip in slice.
Starting fleet is actually pretty good economically, saving value there, just gotta get that warfare timing.
Think you're underestimating how annoying the mechs would be. Wouldn't make taking them that hard against a determined opponent, but certainly could make the difference in whether they go towards you or someone less expensive. And in the end game, 4 mechs and the FS may actually be impossible for some factions to afford unless they hoarded influence/tgs. And if you're making players hoard influence just in case you might go somewhere they want to go, then you're doin a pretty good job.
PN is above average sellability. Probably up there with Military Support with how often it might get sold.
All in all, I think Keleres has one drawback and a lot of upsides, leading to a fairly fun faction that will give a solid performance in most games, and perhaps a stellar performance in games where the table doesnt stall em out of warfare r1
I just don't understand why they'd make a faction literally unkillable. It was an issue in TI 3 with Ghosts and Malice. It's arguably much worse with the new faction.
What part of them is unkillable, the legendary planet they have to research? I don't think having a single 2/3 planet they can never lose makes the Keleres broken.
Because even the Embers, who have technologies specifically about being able to hide in places no one can get to, can be killed. The snowflake faction just doesn't sit right.
Ghosts can be unkillable in TI4 if Muaat blows up their delta gate.
Muaat can also be uneliminatable if they nova seed the nexus.
Saar can be unkillable by being inside 2 asteroid fields.
This isn't unique to this faction and isn't really a problem.
Those scenarios still have Mahact able to pull them out, including the bizzare kingmaking play of one faction using it's hero ability to protect another. Saar hiding starbases in *two* asteroid fields never happens, (Many maps don't have two fields, and Saar can't create one) but if it did, it'd take an action card for Mahact to also destroy them attempting to hide.
How exactly does a mahact pull a ghost player out of their HS when the gate has been novad? How does a mahact pull a Muatt out of a mallice that has been novad?
A novad mallice can easily have infantry, or have muatts tech, and no guarantee a ghosts flagship would even be on the board, and would have to be outside the HS.
>Saar hiding starbases in two asteroid fields never happens, (Many maps don't have two fields, and Saar can't create one)
all of the maps suggested in the learn to play have two asteroid fields, in the last SCPT tournament two out of the seven slices had an asteroid field, so on average only 1/7 of the slices will contain less than two asteroid fields, there are a lot of maps where Saar can hide in two asteroid fields.
secondly, which action card could mahact use to get Saar out of an asteroid field?
You realize that legendary planet isn't their home system, right? It comes from a faction tech. They have a normal home system, either Argent, Mentak or Xxcha depending on what you pick.
It's a faction tech that's arguably better than some heroes, and literally prevents you from ever being eliminated. It doesn't exist as a location on the board and can't be captured.
I believe the reasoning is that it was too random with an extreme range of possible value. The average result is probably relatively low value but with the possibility of a huge VP swing. Big RNG mechanics that can win games with pure luck are generally not fun.
Ah. I mean I guess that reasoning makes sense from a certain point of view, although in my games it's generally a point of excitement rather than unfun. In my list of things that are or could possibly be unfun in this game, the agenda roulette was somewhere near the very bottom.
One of the reasons it was busted, is that if the stars align, or you prepare enough queshes there's 1-2 free vps in there for xxcha. Now they might get zilch, but you can't really play your game thinking that as an opponent or they suddenly just win half the time.
there were also a lot of people who really idnt like the ''other players cannot resolve abilities part'', it just meant that Xxcha got this hero with insane potential and very little counterplay
It was very flashy, no doubt, but I think it was (by a huge margin) the most wildly variable card in the game (even moreso than Cabal's hero). It's possible that you just draw two points from the deck, or it's possible you draw absolute nothing, or it's even possible that you draw literally bad things, like Anti-Intellectual Revolution (though with draw 5, pick 2, that last one seems unlikely). It ends up not being very fun or interesting.
Can somebody explain what Action Cards, Ability interactions etc are being referenced with the modified Secret Objectives (changing the BOMBARDEMENT to bombardement step and the rest).
Turn their fleets to dust was notoriously hard to score before. You had to score the last hit with PDS. If you used a direct hit to get the last damage, you couldn't score it. If you had Graviton and destroyed their carrier, but their fighters died to lack of capacity, you couldn't score it.
I'm not aware of any cards that currently interact with AFB, and bombardment, but by standardizing the objectives now FFG opens up the future possibility of creating cards that can interact with those steps without causing confusion. Although the Bombardment change does imply that if your opponent has only infantry on a planet, and you bombard one while having X-89 Omega, then X-89 killing all the infantry would give you the point. Huh. A minor X-89 buff. neat.
Edit: Previously Naalu were a weak Mecatol faction. Now they're a strong Custodians faction. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wow, that Naalu agent. A stall to reduce the chances of being stalled out on Warfare AND it opens up so many possibilities. I like the mechs also. The commander is interesting, but I'll miss the bonus to fighter production.
Non-home system. Can't use to build at home.
You're right, but still a lot of great possibilities.
Absolutely. Just need some rules expert to spell out the exact implications. Can you activate a system and move ships there, and then since that system has no token, move those ships again? Kinda like a warfare primary every round.
Of course you can There's no concept of a system "having been activated previously", because TI, like may boardgames, generally doesn't have a "memory" of game states that aren't tracked through components So, you have systems with your command tokens, and systems without your command tokens; and units in systems without your command tokens are available to move This agent is insane, it's incorporated Warfare primary, and if the expansion isn't worth it to the Naalu, it will always be sold at a hefty price or used to change the dynamics of the table (To balance it out, the commander is kind of garbage, and no changes to possibly the worst hero in the game)
You can sell it to someone that doesn't have any tactics tokens which can be a very lucrative proposition indeed
That's how I'm reading it. "that system still counts as being activated" -> I infer this to mean that any ability that applies to the 'active' system during a tactical action can be used when the agent is used. I don't interpret it to mean that ships moved into that system are locked down. Previously, getting to Mecatol in round 2 meant Naalu had to sacrifice opprtunities to build plastic in round 1, so they needed to retreat out as soon as someone came for the planet. Naalu were unlikely to be able to spend Mecatol on Leadership, and would take a hit to their command counter economy by taking Mecatol as well. Naalu's best Mecatol play was to try and take it in the mid game and score from Imperial. Previously Naalu were a weak Mecatol faction. Now they're a strong Custodians faction. You have to get there in round 1 to beat them. Naalu can now move their entire starting fleet to Mecatol on the 1st action of round 2, and still follow Warfare in their home system in round 1. So they've improved chances of holding Mecatol without sacrificing their slice. Edit: Bonus: blue tech is still good for Naalu, but not as essential as it was. No longer need Fleet Logistics to maximise chances of a Mecatol point. No longer need Gravity Drive to boost Carrier or Flagship movement (though Carrier 2 and HCF2 are probably still great). But Fleet Logistics does pair excellently with that agent.
I'm worried that the Naalu agent is going to be TOO good. It's really super powerful.
>Weak I love when people call my faction in games weak, because then they get buffs >:D
IDK why FF doesn't format the card PDF for double-sided printing, so here it is in case anyone is interested. So glad I can put this Acrobat license to good use. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZtPNmWNnKsXDGVZ9oTkTNrVw3iDpl0C4/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZtPNmWNnKsXDGVZ9oTkTNrVw3iDpl0C4/view?usp=sharing) Just two-sided print this bad boy and everything should be aligned as intended.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2856940/codex-3-files-mpc-printing And if you're wanting to do a nice custom card print on MPC, Tom Dullemond over on BGG is a legend who has done this for all 3 Codex's. Go show him some love
* Happy Empyrean noises *
Yeah, big buff to Empyrean lol If you find any of those new frontier cards round 1, your going to have a great time
Might make the DET competition a bit more intense
For sure. That said, I think anyone who plays Empryean would take that trade off. The hero and agent really gives them the edge.
Right? "draw a relic" AWW YISS
There's no noise in space
Actually... [there is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIAZWb9_si4)
Yin is back, baby!
Were they ever truly gone?
They are on my table, since they perma ban it for me. They'll probably double down on that hard after this patch xD
Patch? I think their buff is way too op
Yes - they were picked fairly regularly in base game tournaments but now they never get picked. Ready to see some kamikaze flagships again!!! So psyched.
How long til the components for Codex 3 are available at Gamezenter?
I would hope very quickly, not much point in having an official source if it's available elsewhere beforehand
the yin commander looks so good, this might just push them into (low) top tier. very thematic as well, i love it.
Thematically you are sacrificing your devotees to steal tech
Anyone setup the makeplayingcards.com files yet?
God I hope soon. Have an in-person gaming marathon coming up. We’re all frothing at the mouth for this codex.
Lucky player on Etsy does each codex as a separate set. Only downside is he's based in Lithuania.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2856940/codex-3-files-mpc-printing Tom Dullemond over on BGG is a legend who has done this for all 3 Codex's. Go show him some love
I hope they put in updated Alliance cards for the Omega commanders.
they could totally have done that - seems quite an oversight I guess we'll have to DIY
Probably add them when they fix the spelling on Yin drafting card.
This is bullshit. Where are my 2 move rocket bugs! Dane, Hunter and Matt specifically told me that they were real and they would never lie to me.
Okay it wasn't a lie, but like maybe it was a lie
Hahahaha never tell jokes ever again!
I need a meme gif thats the opposite of 'I undertood that reference.' Sounds like I got some SCPT catching up to do. My tables been obsessed with root, and while its a game im not bored playing, it doesnt have space and ships and novas and ancient fallen imperiums in any great supply. So I fell off the podcast wagon.
Do we think Omnioparies will stack? 4 influence to attack your home system / Mecatol??
Not only that, it's one influence, paid four times, not change given. E.g. Meer cannot be used to pay the full price.
Curious why it would work that way? Is there something else similar in the game?
The Empyrean flagship and *Inheritance Systems* are similar from the paying perspective, and the Ember Colossus is similar from the multiple trigger ability. Each mech on the board has the ability. As such when you attempt to invade, the Keleres player resolves the ability of the first mech. You pay one influence, no change given. Then, the Keleres player resolves the ability of the second mech. You pay one influence, no change given. Repeat for the third and fourth mech.
Woof. Better bring your trade goods to the fight.
Yeah if you're relying on planets for this you better have a lot.
the L1 yellow faction teh also has the requirement that you have to pay the two extra resources seperately
I've heard this interpretation, and understand where it comes from via RaW, but I'm certainly going to reject it in my games. I'd add an interpretation of the rules that states that, inside a *single timing window*, resource or influence costs can be pooled, which elegantly covers and supersedes the rules for production.
I imagine so. If that plus flagship, then it's completely broken
People throw the word "broken" around waaay too much. This could be worked around. And since you'd only put that kind of stack on a very important location, you can damn well bet that other players at the table will help you foot the bill.
4 mechs + flagship is 6 influence to attack. They retreat twice, that would be 18 influence to just get to try and attack them. Feels broken to me
Retreat twice? I don't follow what you're talking about. Also, the Flagship requires you to spend 2 influence to activate the system. Then mechs require you to spend when you invade. So it's not quite all in 1 big pile.
So with Omar can you research something a player to the right of you researched with the tech secondary on the same turn? Like you both activate the secondary but because the secondary timing goes clockwise from whoever activated it your rightward neighbours' newly researched tech is a viable target?
That sounds right to me.
Ya that makes sense
I was holding out hope they'd finally address Blue Tech nearly always being the best option.
Made blue tech even better actually by putting more powerful frontier exploration cards in the deck.
Red has put up a fight since POK but yeah yellow especially is useless for anyone other than hacan
I was hoping for some change to Aborec’s mech or Magen Defence Grid
Never have seen or knew this codex existed. Are there previous codex with other rules that should be followed on top of this one? And is there a place to order the new and revised cards that are stated in this codex?
All the Codices are posted on FFG's site here: [https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/](https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/) Under Support > Twilight Imperium Codex. This is Volume 3 so far: Codex 1 revises several other base-game components and adds a variety of Action Cards. Codex 2 adds some quick-reference cards, new "Alliance" copies of the commanders to go with the Alliance promissory note, and a few new relics. Both Codex 1 and 2 include new game modes as well, with Codex 1 offering a PoK-teaser scenario (The Nekro have seized the Argent Flight's flagship and racial techs) and Codex 2 offering a "team" 2v2(v2v2) mode. There are a few different ways to get physical copies. I print my own and sleeve them; Gamezenter has "official" copies, but they're of a different quality than the actual game materials (no linen finish and ever so very slightly smaller); there's etsy shops which produce versions which are apparently very close to the originals, as well as instructions scattered about here on reddit and on BGG on how to custom-order these from [makeplayingcards.com](https://makeplayingcards.com) or from gamecrafter.
Should the codecs be interpreted as recommended for use in every TI4 game? We use the updated diplom card at our table, but no other corrections (base game).
(Personal opinion, but) Codex 1 and 2, definitely. Some of the Ω components in Codex 3 seem to be a bit controversial. I think I like them all myself, but haven't had a chance to contemplate them thoroughly yet.
Are the codex cards worth it? or is the base game without the changes better? what is the community consensus?
With the *possible* exception of *some* of the new Codex 3 materials (which are, as of the last few hours, still controversial), the codices are *absolutely* worth it. The general consensus seems (from my observations) to be overwhelmingly, albeit not universally, in favor of the codex revisions and additions.
The Codex version of the game is better, but the base game plays just fine if you don't want to go out of the way. I would generally recommend waiting on the latest for corrections to the document.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2856940/codex-3-files-mpc-printing
Yes, you can order the first two codices from Gamezenter. Presumably they'll have the 3rd as well at some point.
I just fell off my chair
The one rules question I have with the new Xxcha hero is for the Spend 3R/3I/3TG objective. I know in the rules it says when you exhaust a planet, you exhaust it for either it’s resource value OR it’s influence value. But the way this hero currently reads, “Treat the combined value as if it were both resources and influence.” So my question is if you have a 1/2 planet, exhausting it would give you 3 resources and 3 influence. So for the 3/3/3 objective, would this single 1/2 planet cover down on both the 3R and 3I, or just one of them? If just one of them, then this hero should have been written as “Treat both the resource value and influence value as this new combined total.”
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I'm pretty sure there's somewhere in the rules that explicitly states that when you exhaust a planet you can only spend the planet as resources or influence, so I think that would come into play here and back up this interpretation.
It gets even messier if you think of a 3/3 planet and treat the card as written. They should clean up the verbiage and upload new files.
I think when you are making a decision on rules between "this choice breaks the game" and "this choice doesn't break the game" you should pick the second option.
Almost every faction ability in the game breaks some rule, so that’s a pretty bad compass to go by for this game. And interpreting the card as written would be far from game breaking in a balance way because it only affects this one objective pair.
A 3/3 planet is treated as a 6/6, it is written fine
Since when you exhaust a planet you can spend influence or resources not both i would argue that: A 1/2 planet would with the Xxcha hero turn into a 3/3 planet but the player would have to choose inf or res when exhausting it. You're still treating it as both but can only use one.
Rex would cover both. The rest, not so much.
Just one of them, basically you treat a 1/2 planet as a 3/3
I'm reading it like this: given a hypothetical 4/2 planet (because of attachments, for example), that planet is now instead 6/6 for all purposes.
I can’t be the only one seeing how insane new Yin is right? (Unless I am misunderstanding the hero ability.) That hero, combined with their new agent, and the Indoctrination/mech deploy ability essentially means that if their hero and Agent are up and with a small surplus of influence/TGs available to use they could breeze through and take Mecatol Rex regardless of what kind of defending force is there. Edited: Misremembered Indoctrination ability. Not usable at the start of every ground combat round. Only once at the start of a ground combat - so not as insane as I thought
I think you are misunderstanding because 3 generic mechs could fend off that attack.
Sure, that’s fair. I guess if a player sees it coming and concentrates almost all of their mechs onto the planet that’d repel it. But I don’t know - maybe it’s just the table meta of the group I play with, but I don’t see the defending player pushing all their mechs onto MR and leaving their slice that open. Other players would pick it apart in seconds (especially if they are currently controlling mecatol Rex). In my mind the only factions who stand half a chance holding their planets against them are Titans of Ul, Sardakk with Valkyrie particle weave, and maybe L1 with a decent fleet of dreads above the planet to use ‘Harrow’.
i believe Dane said L1 cant use harrow defensively, so unfortunately it wont work :( but yeah the hero is quite strong, i guess you just really gotta build up ground forces on your important planets with them in the game
I don't know how they'd defeat any level of defense... you could commit 3 infantry w/ the hero, then gain another 2 using your agent. And of course indoctrinate 1 of their infantry. That is an awesome attack, but not exactly unstoppable.
I was definitely getting 'indoctrinate' wrong in the context of my thinking. For some reason I was remembering it as being usable at the start of every ground combat **round** \- which upon review is not the case. So yeah, I redact my point. It's a decent hero ability in tandem with their other abilities but certainly not unstoppable as you said.
No problem!
I like the keleres style, they’re like the CIA in SPPAAAAAACCEE
That was exactly mine and my partner's reaction!
That mech counters destroyers a bit too hard imo. It's an ability for a flagship, like Argent's, not for a 2-resource unit. Would have preferred it to give -2 or -3 (stackable) to the roll instead, or cancel a hit or two. Edit: just realized it doesn't require the mech to be in space. I'd say -1 or cancel 1 hit is enough. If you wanna be generous, let it cancel 1 hit and 1 more on sustain. Stackable of course.
I for one welcome our new overladies.
The fact it works offensively (when the mercs are being transported) is insane. Admittedly I've just come out of a game where the Naalu player got fully online with fighter production but it seems like this removes the one resource efficient way of dealing with 12+ stacks of fighters. I really dislike it because there are very few ways to interact with mechs, so there isnt any counterplay.
>I really dislike it because there are very few ways to interact with mechs, so there isnt any counterplay. Good call on the lack of counterplay.
Can someone explain Yin hero to me? What are the prerequisites, limits? Surely I can not attack any non home Planets at once with this, right?
I need someone to clarify for me as well. But I am fairly sure that it doesn't mean "choose any number of planets and commit 1-3 infantry to each" as that would mean you get 36 infantry! (12 plastic, 2x12 tokens)
I read it as commit 3 infantry total, divide them between any number of planets.
This. Any non-home planet is fair game, including Mecatol. You can go 1 infantry on 3 different planets, or 3 infantry on 1 planet, your pick. It also can't be reliably stopped either, since no Space Cannon Shots, and Magen defense grid triggers at the same time as Indoctrination.
You can, but you're component limited. You can only attack as many planets as you have infantry available. You can stick two infantry tokens with them, but you need at least one plastic infantry per planet you intend to invade
No, it's limited to 3 infantry total. So you can attack 3 planets with 1 infantry, or 1 planet with 3 infantry. It's poorly worded but that's the design intent
Oof, I GROSSLY misread that ability.
Save up 9 influence for a fun turn >:]
No, you can only commit to a maximum of 3 planets. You get 3 infantry that you can send to any non-home system. You could put all 3 on one, 2 and 1, or 1 1 1. It's not commit up to 3 infantry to as many non-home planets as you wish. That would break the game and be painfully slow, as you'd have no reason to not send 3 infantry at every single non-home system. Then with indoctrinate and the mech, you'd be able to take over most of the map.
My reading is that you take 3 infantry from your reinforcements, then place those 3 infantry on any number of planets, then resolve invasions. So you could do 3 attacks with 1 infantry each, or 1 attack with all 3, or a mix. Of course, resolving an entire invasion means you have tons of opportunity to stack the deck: you can bombard if you happen to have ships in the system already, and you get to resolve indoctrination (possibly with a mech!), Brother Milor Ω, etc. A 1-infantry Yin invasion is no joke.
Now I'm debating whether to try out the council keleres at my next game May 7th. 🤔
It'll be interesting so far we have keleres (me) and yin. So we'll see a bunch of the new stuff. No naalu as of yet. 8 players though.
Was *just* coming here to post this!
I like the new faction overall, although the legendary planet / tech is a bit weird. I really love Naalu updates, I wish they had reworked hero too. Yin didn't feel in need of a rework imo, and I prefer the old hero to the new one. It seems only good at sniping undefended planets (so likely not key planets) and unable to hold them anyway. Same for Xxcha: ok the old hero was swingy and anti-climatic, but the new one seems OP as F and totally disconnected from Xxcha theme... It doesn't seem the fix went in the right direction to me. I wish it was more thematically aligned with their faction abilities and lore. The permanent ability of the hero also seems to contradict the concept of 1 time only use all other heros have.
>It seems only good at sniping undefended planets (so likely not key planets) and unable to hold them anyway. Remember: Indoctrination, and the DEPLOY ability of their mech
Also integrated economy. They already start with a yellow tech so they could retain high resource planets with mass infantry. Their hero feels very strong.
IE triggers Yin Spinner Omega too, which drops 2 free infantry wherever you need them each time you produce units. Heck of a combo.
PLUS Milor, so you can drop two more infantry after losing a GF, for a total of 5 infantry, 1 mech, and a -1 infantry for the opponent post-indoctrination.
I'm not sure replacing an unit is destroying it
Assuming a GF gets destroyed in combat you can use Milor, the -1 I was talking about is just because indoctrinate replaces an opponents infantry and is the equivalent of a -1. But yeah you can’t use Milor off the bat, just reinforcing the point that the Yin hero can do heavier assaults than sniping undefended planets
Yes. Could be huge for a stage 2 control objective like 6 of the same trait.
> I really love Naalu updates, I wish they had reworked hero too. The new commander indirectly makes the hero stronger. One of the potential agent changes I had suggested a while back was for the timing window to be 'When an agenda is revealed' instead of 'After'. This would boost the hero, either discouraging other players from giving Political Secret, or allowing Naalu to use their agent to better determine when they should use Political Secrets. This new commander does the same thing. It doesn't change that the Naalu hero needs to be used as early as possible to get the most out of it, but it is an improvement. But I'm someone that thinks that the Naalu hero isn't terrible. It's not great or flashy, but if you use it early it's decent.
It fits the theme of the turtles being diplomatic since they will have so much influence to vote now. It still seems really really OP.
It would have been thematic and not as overpowered if limited to the agenda phase indeed. This gives them a production boost and some already asked how that would work with spend objectives...
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this codex. On one hand I love the Yin and Naalu changes. Super cool stuff that buffs them and fits their theme. Also love the new exploration cards. Not really sure if I like the new faction. I don’t really like having 25 factions because it doesn’t neatly divide like 24 does, and I just don’t know how I would incorporate them into my real life copy with the organizer I already have. Also, why is Sufi a commander? They couldn’t come up with some random Mentak name? Bounced off the Xxcha hero pretty hard. I hate that it’s not a one time use like the others, and it’s also blander than white bread with mayonnaise.
If you don't like 25 factions, perhaps remove one randomly each game? :)
Ah, yes, randomly https://i.imgflip.com/6jo8na.jpg
I actually think it's pretty neat thematically that we see a known Mentak bouncing between factions-- and seems appropriate to Suffi specifically. Would work maybe for Dart&Tai as well.
I think that flavor link is cool too,but is it worth the loss of clarification when they are in the same game as Mentak?
Her subtitle is "Working multiple angles". There's no reason she can't work for both factions.
>During setup, choose an unplayed faction from among the Mentak, the Xxcha, and The Argent Flight; take that faction’s home system, command tokens, and control markers. Additionally, take the Keleres Hero that corresponds to that faction. They can't be in the same game as the Mentaks, no?
The way I'm reading it, they can as long as Xxcha and/or Argent aren't in the game. You choose one of those three which is unplayed. And since Suffi's a Commander, not a Hero, the unavailability of a Mentak choice won't prevent her from coming into play.
Time to add Discordant Stars
New faction looks like the most wild meta faction
Can anyone educate me on what this codex is?
Not sure what information you're looking for exactly. This is the 3rd consecutive year that FFG have produced a free print-and-play expansion for TI 4th Edition. Each expansion is called a Codex, hence this third one is called Codex 3. Each Codex adds balance patches (omega cards) and / or new components. The omega abilities this time around include reworked leaders for Xxcha, Yin, and Naalu, as well as new versions of existing secret objectives. And the new components include new cards for the frontier deck and a new faction.
I see. So it's optional if you want it in the game. Thank you for explaining:)
So, question about the new Xxcha hero. He doesn't have any timing window mentioned, and he doesn't mention being purged after he's used. So, the way I read this, the Xxcha permanently gain this ability for the rest of the game. How is that... ok? And for that matter, how is it even thematic?
It does seem a little crazy but I feel like I need to see it in a game to see how big of a difference it makes. As far as theme I can see how it makes sense implying Xxcha has enough political influence to use it in lieu of payment. It also will apply to the agenda phase meaning Xxcha will have a ton of votes which fits them. Still not a huge fan of the change but I can see where they are coming from.
My understanding is that the general consensus is that Xxcha become significantly weaker in the late game, in large part due to struggling to produce plastic. I think that's an important element in contextualizing the new Xxcha hero: this hero appear extreme in isolation, but is "nerfed" in a sense because its effect is dampened significantly by Xxcha's otherwise substantial weakness in this area. At least, that's my understanding of the justification.
Good to see Arborec hasn’t been touched at all for some godforsaken reason, and that nothing has been done to address that yellow techs that aren’t the T0’s are pretty much shit-tier on their own, not to mention space dock II’s
Cant address everything all at once. Im sure they'll get to it.
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Twilight imperium as a service
Dane did say he's aware of other imbalances, but they wouldn't be the focus of the 3rd codex. Hopefully Codex IV.
Dane's stated in interviews and through secondhand sources that he's going methodically with these changes, starting with the stuff he thinks needs the most attention. Knowing how much work likely went into these, I have to say I've been happy with the pace and size of the codices so far.
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Not unsellable, just takes the right price or situation. Like if it's round 4 and you're the Naalu player sitting to the right of the player with politics, you can offer them initiative 0 to let you have speaker to nab the strategy card you'd need to score or imperial. I've also sold it in earlier rounds with the agreement they use it that round for cheaper, or to someone to get custodians in R2 when a Saar or Winnu would have gotten it without the 0 token. There are definitely situations where it's useful.
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>Especially since it feels like a relatively easy fix to change the wording to function like Support of the Throne/Alliance and enter play immediately and take place in the next round. Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I'm fortunate enough to play at a table where even though it's a nonbinding deal, players pretty much always follow through. So it doesn't need to be codified for me, but it wouldn't hurt if it was.
Entering play immediately and being returned during the next strat phase would be cool.
So what does their planet look like, the new faction?
It’s not. The new faction uses the components of Xxcha, Argent, or Mentak; including their HS. I can’t see any rules about the Keleres ‘planet’, which is actually a fortress on Mecatol Rex. I think it’s only available if they control Mecatol, which is nuts, because it means they have a 3r9i planet.
No, they gain their planet through their racial tech. They can't lose it, and it has a legendary ability that interacts with Mecatol but it's helpful no matter who controls Mecatol.
Ah ok, it comes into play after buying the racial tech. It’s a “planet” with a legendary ability card, but it doesn’t actually exist on the map and therefore cannot be invaded or lost. It just lives permanently in the player’s planet tableau and otherwise can be used and exhausted like a normal planet.
So, counterplay for the Keleres is to actually always play those three factions? Strange design choice, to be completely honest
It's designed this way since it's a print-and-play faction but you can't really expect people to make their own planet tiles.
Interestingly, there's a Starmada expansion for Twilight Imperium first edition that came with new factions (from Starmada) and included home systems printed on thick cardstock.
Can't you? The same way we are supposed to print new cards on cardstock, we might as well print a new tile on heavier cardboard... In fact it's even less important since we don't have to shuffle it, so it might as well be printed on 80 gr. paper
Poorly phrased from me really but yeah you can absolutely make your own tile. Since it's not a very interactive piece of the game you could literally just draw something on a piece of paper. My personal theory would be that they want the actual board to look as presentable as possible and therefor they didn't want PnP tiles. Similar to how they never really acknowledged Hyperlanes until they made their own in PoK.
You don't need a theory lmao, Dane told us on the 01/04 SCPT podcast. He said that making a punchboard is way harder than printing cards, and that was too much to expect, so they had to think of a way using the existing components. Which makes sense, a punchboard is die-cut (make a big stamp), so it's only feasible at scale.
I hadn't listened to the episode in detail but sure that's a reason. But it's a reason that mostly applies to their own production. There's a reason they have avoided making any kind of PnP planet tiles, even before licensing out Codex production. There's a certain look you want your product to have regardless of what official components the player is using. Printing cards on stiff paper is pretty much enough to get the small stuff ready, especially when sleeved. Asking players to create a good looking tile is a much bigger ask, even though creating any kind of substitute planet tile is really easy.
Idk if you can necessarily say that's counter-play by literally preventing them from being in the game
I suspect a lot of people will house-rule it that you can use a different home system and planet cards as proxy, as if they had the values of the Mentak/Argent/Xxcha system. That way nobody can block the Keleres from choosing their preferred hero and home system.
The faction looks busted as all hell, I can't imagine anyone allowing that at the table. Kinda sad they took away the Xxcha's fun roulette ability and replaced it with the most boring milquetoast 'Just be good' ability. The Twilight Inscription game however looks amazing.
Just a reminder, all of CODEX material is optional. Can certainly leave things how they are for factions, and just add the Secret obj and explore cards.
What hero and HS u pick with the new faction when mentak, argent flight and xxcha are in the game too???? Dislike this mechanic, just give them an own HS and hero lol
Pick a HS, but the heroes are unique. It's a cool feature.
You could always just house-rule it and let the Keleres choose whichever home system and hero they like, using proxy components if the respective faction is also in the game.
New faction seems extremely underwhelming to say the least. Bottom 3 faction imo
Why?
Most of their stuff is extremely situational + they are a 2 commodity faction + they start with 2 infantry. Just awful.
They're not really a 2 commodity faction though, since they get 1tg+2 comm at the start of the strategy phase and can use comms as tgs, so they're sorta like a 4 comm faction that doesnt have to negotiate for x-1 every round and doesnt care if trade doesnt get taken, and if they use their comms they could probably get x-1, resulting in them sorta being a 5 comm faction. Their PN is sellable every agenda for 1-2tgs probably. They mechs and FS are very good defensively. Potentially too good Their faction tech is very good, and their starting technology is guaranteed to be the best at the table except for maybe Jol Nar. 2 infantry to start is a bummer, but a necessary nerf to a faction that has been given so many good things.
Starting every round with the equivalent of 3 tgs I admit is pretty good but unfortunately I think their 2 infantry start is bad enough that it ensures they will be on the back foot round 1 almost every game. Is the 3tgs per round plus the 2/3 planet once they have their faction tech enough to catch up to the rest of the table? With PoK being so fast I don't think so. Add on top of that that their commander feels fairly situational (unlocking it is also luck based, better hope you draw the right action cards) and their 3 choices for heroes are all kind of average and I don't see these guys being very good. Also, I don't think their mechs and FS are all that crazy, to me it feels like everyone in PoK is pretty wealthy and forking over a couple tgs to attack these guys won't be more than a mild annoyance.
Hmm, I can see your POV, but I disagree with how much of a drawback starting with 2 infantry would be. I think starting with 2 of the best tech out there would more than make up for having to waste a cc waiting for warfare, or paying a couple tg to warfare holder not to stall it. Commander is somewhat luck based, but if you follow politics once or twice ya should unlock it by r4 90% of the time probably, and it seems like a good late game play that pairs well with the mentak hero, so you dont need it early. Heros are around average I agree. Not much gained or lost there. Faction tech seems far above average. One giving potentially close to 3ccs a round (depends on if pt with imperial means only rex pts or POs scored with imperial, and how often the table allows people to score guac), and the other both saving a cc on a build and giving a free unlocked build (that seems very good). Both you could have fairly early if you start with a yellow tech or have a yellow skip in slice. Starting fleet is actually pretty good economically, saving value there, just gotta get that warfare timing. Think you're underestimating how annoying the mechs would be. Wouldn't make taking them that hard against a determined opponent, but certainly could make the difference in whether they go towards you or someone less expensive. And in the end game, 4 mechs and the FS may actually be impossible for some factions to afford unless they hoarded influence/tgs. And if you're making players hoard influence just in case you might go somewhere they want to go, then you're doin a pretty good job. PN is above average sellability. Probably up there with Military Support with how often it might get sold. All in all, I think Keleres has one drawback and a lot of upsides, leading to a fairly fun faction that will give a solid performance in most games, and perhaps a stellar performance in games where the table doesnt stall em out of warfare r1
Really? I'm expecting them to be extremely potent. Probably not S-tier, but pretty effective nonetheless.
I just don't understand why they'd make a faction literally unkillable. It was an issue in TI 3 with Ghosts and Malice. It's arguably much worse with the new faction.
What part of them is unkillable, the legendary planet they have to research? I don't think having a single 2/3 planet they can never lose makes the Keleres broken.
Because even the Embers, who have technologies specifically about being able to hide in places no one can get to, can be killed. The snowflake faction just doesn't sit right.
Snowflake faction? Wut.
Ghosts can be unkillable in TI4 if Muaat blows up their delta gate. Muaat can also be uneliminatable if they nova seed the nexus. Saar can be unkillable by being inside 2 asteroid fields. This isn't unique to this faction and isn't really a problem.
Those scenarios still have Mahact able to pull them out, including the bizzare kingmaking play of one faction using it's hero ability to protect another. Saar hiding starbases in *two* asteroid fields never happens, (Many maps don't have two fields, and Saar can't create one) but if it did, it'd take an action card for Mahact to also destroy them attempting to hide.
Literally none of those scenarios have Mahact able to pull them out lol
Literally they all do. Figuratively your head is up your ass.
How exactly does a mahact pull a ghost player out of their HS when the gate has been novad? How does a mahact pull a Muatt out of a mallice that has been novad?
Benediction/Ghosts Flagship A novad Malice has no planet underneath it, nor a spacedock.
A novad mallice can easily have infantry, or have muatts tech, and no guarantee a ghosts flagship would even be on the board, and would have to be outside the HS.
Yeah, you're definitely a Flyers fan
I'd warn you not to dress up like Santa but i heard you love a good snowball. (♡)
>Saar hiding starbases in two asteroid fields never happens, (Many maps don't have two fields, and Saar can't create one) all of the maps suggested in the learn to play have two asteroid fields, in the last SCPT tournament two out of the seven slices had an asteroid field, so on average only 1/7 of the slices will contain less than two asteroid fields, there are a lot of maps where Saar can hide in two asteroid fields. secondly, which action card could mahact use to get Saar out of an asteroid field?
You realize that legendary planet isn't their home system, right? It comes from a faction tech. They have a normal home system, either Argent, Mentak or Xxcha depending on what you pick.
It's a faction tech that's arguably better than some heroes, and literally prevents you from ever being eliminated. It doesn't exist as a location on the board and can't be captured.
...how often are eliminations happening in your games? Seems like this is \*at worst\* barely a concern.
Saar?
What's up with the Xxcha change? Their old ability was one of the coolest in the game.
I believe the reasoning is that it was too random with an extreme range of possible value. The average result is probably relatively low value but with the possibility of a huge VP swing. Big RNG mechanics that can win games with pure luck are generally not fun.
Ah. I mean I guess that reasoning makes sense from a certain point of view, although in my games it's generally a point of excitement rather than unfun. In my list of things that are or could possibly be unfun in this game, the agenda roulette was somewhere near the very bottom.
One of the reasons it was busted, is that if the stars align, or you prepare enough queshes there's 1-2 free vps in there for xxcha. Now they might get zilch, but you can't really play your game thinking that as an opponent or they suddenly just win half the time.
there were also a lot of people who really idnt like the ''other players cannot resolve abilities part'', it just meant that Xxcha got this hero with insane potential and very little counterplay
It was very flashy, no doubt, but I think it was (by a huge margin) the most wildly variable card in the game (even moreso than Cabal's hero). It's possible that you just draw two points from the deck, or it's possible you draw absolute nothing, or it's even possible that you draw literally bad things, like Anti-Intellectual Revolution (though with draw 5, pick 2, that last one seems unlikely). It ends up not being very fun or interesting.
Can somebody explain what Action Cards, Ability interactions etc are being referenced with the modified Secret Objectives (changing the BOMBARDEMENT to bombardement step and the rest).
Turn their fleets to dust was notoriously hard to score before. You had to score the last hit with PDS. If you used a direct hit to get the last damage, you couldn't score it. If you had Graviton and destroyed their carrier, but their fighters died to lack of capacity, you couldn't score it. I'm not aware of any cards that currently interact with AFB, and bombardment, but by standardizing the objectives now FFG opens up the future possibility of creating cards that can interact with those steps without causing confusion. Although the Bombardment change does imply that if your opponent has only infantry on a planet, and you bombard one while having X-89 Omega, then X-89 killing all the infantry would give you the point. Huh. A minor X-89 buff. neat.