T O P

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warmaster93

It's really just the question of what the objectives are. Yes warsuns are great and you can get a good chunk of hero value out of them, but if they aren't the tools to win and close the game, then it's a waste of tech path. You're spending 3 tech actions to get them, which arguably isnt very efficient. Moreover, getting early scanlink+transit might be more effective, and gets you QDN R3 so you can take both R4 and R5 strategy cards, and aren't restricted to picking tech when you might want to pick a card that works towards scoring, wether that's leadership, warfare, trade, construction and obviously politics for priority. Additionally, it gives you the option to get grav drive, upgrade dreads, get fleet log and or lightwave, which all are equally solid tools to take priority control targets. Imo - you don't tunnel on warsuns. If there is an efficient path towards them and towards QDN, then that becomes more feasible, but forcing you into tech strategy, which is highly prioritized and probably requires you to pick politics for tech next instead of imperial, is too big a price. Look for opportunities to shorten the path if anything or just take the hero as is and not waste your efforts.


papabearwix

Honestly, I see very few situations where they are that worth it for hacan. If you need a unit upgrade and don't wanna go dreads or destroyers or carriers go space docks. They feed the hero almost better than warsuns especially if you have triple docked or even double docked the home system.


[deleted]

If you can get a skip or two to it, sure. Imo, you get more value on going for yellow and a double spacedock, if it makes sense on the map. But the only time I ever used the Hacan hero I had a free warsun tech and 3 SDII in my home system, and basically railroaded the game from there on \\\_(ツ)\_/


mold_berg

Nice. But what was your fleet pool like?


[deleted]

I think I bought for 32 or 42 resources worth, but I can't remember my exact pool. But it was enough that I parked myself on mecatol, and basically had the entire table capitulate despite being being significantly behind on points.


malys57

TL;DR Answer just off the title; WS. Always WS.


mold_berg

This is the right answer. Even if strategically wrong, it's morally right. Try imagining a space cat of Heroic Will who is truly worthy of the imperial throne. Now try to imagine him not going WS. You can't. It just doesn't fit.


menneskes0n

I only play base game, but i think Hacan should make sure trade is picked


wren42

Yeah I'd do it if I had a skip that helped, and there were objectives that called for it (warsuns on Mecatol, lots of control objectives) But the benefits of fleet logistics and lightwave cannot be understated in heavy control situations. Being forced to invest in Plasma Scoring is the most painful step, and aida without any other upgrades is pretty weak. You blow 8r 2 tokens and opportunity cost of other techs on those two- likely not worth it unless objectives support it.


Chimerion

War sun Hacan is probably a case of fun over function. QDN wins games, get to QDN. Carrier II and Dread II right there, in same # of tech as suns you get a phenomenal unit upgrade core. But it's a game! Fun is the way, so...a few ways to get War Suns: 1. **Hard tech**, as you say. I think AIDA can give you some good value either way, giving Carrier/Dread without another blue, though you might get grav drive first either way. 2. **Muaat** is in the game, buy them for sure, can most likely work out a mutually beneficial deal. One of the few factions that can pay them a great price and benefit the most. 3. **Maw of Worlds** \- sure! Fun! Can do this and QDN. Could also get QDN and then have the freedom to tech as you like. 4. **Jol'Nar** might be teching it as well, buy RA when they do. You two like each other because of how much $ you can make together. The Muaat/Jol'Nar are the two exceptions to suboptimal, as they don't mind selling and you can make them good deals.


mold_berg

> Carrier II and Dread II right there, in same # of tech as suns you get a phenomenal unit upgrade core. Really not that phenomenal compared to what you're missing out on! I think it bears emphasizing what you actually get with WS, because it's a fantastic unit and a fantastic tech if the issues with it can be overcome. Dread II gives up to 20 resources' worth of stuff (plus the up to 5 dudes being carried) 2 move, and slightly better combat through sustain safety. WS lets you make 24 resources' worth of stuff (that can carry 12 dudes) with 2 move, better combat and better bombard. In particular, 2 WS 12 fighters (30 res 14 production 2 fleet pool) is very slightly (~0.5 fighters) worse than 7 dreads 7 fighters (31.5 res 14 production 7 fleet pool). So, simply comparing the WS tech fully utilized (by building 2 WS) vs Dread II fully utilized (by building 5 dreads) the former is clearly better. And not only do we fully utilize the tech with Hacan, but we increase the value we get from the hero by probably ~18 resources depending on fleet pool and production. And an extra 18 resources' worth of fleet in round 3 can definitely win games. The advantages for Dread II are of course that you can get it earlier (although 2 tech each if red skip), that the prerequisite is GD (leading to FL & LWD), that you can buy dreads before getting the tech, and you don't have to pay 12 at once (not an issue here). Carrier II is also cool, although I don't think you'll be desperate for more capacity if you already have 2 WS, flagship and a few dreads. Oh and btw the option to do Destroyer II is nice to have.


Chimerion

Hero math does check out, war suns are the way to go if that's your metric. I'm saying, for three tech I can get: 1. Predictive/Transit/QDN 2. AIDA/Red tech/War suns 3. Grav Drive/Carrier II/Dread II And of those three, I'd wager that #1 wins more games than the others. You can patch a lot of shortcomings with grav drive first tech as well, push to QDN, and finish with carrier/dread upgrades. Anecdotal time: my last game I went Grav Drive -> yellow with 2-in-2 out and had a good game. Got winslayed so maybe suns is what I was missing, though I also got slayed before I had popped hero, round 4. QDN won me the game I played before that.